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Topic: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia (Read 60674 times)

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #175
Ah no, immigration is another one to be sure. I think most of us probably aren't too displeased by the latest developments in that matter.

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #176
Perhaps some would like to read this
(Refer back to the Gay Marriage thread.)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #177
Quote
She is by no means alone on the Supreme Court. Six of that Court’s nine members have either written or joined in opinions citing foreign authorities. The most astonishing, or risible, so far was Justice Stephen Breyer’s opinion arguing that he found “useful” in interpreting our Constitution decisions by the Privy Council of Jamaica, and the Supreme Courts of India and Zimbabwe. Jamaica and India are far-fetched enough. But Zimbabwe–the country devastated by the blood-stained dictator Robert Mugabe! We might as well learn our constitutional law from Saddam Hussein’s Iraq or Fidel Castro’s Cuba.
This is pretty silly. A court's opinion is a well-argued document. Regardless whether one agrees with the verdict reached, one would certainly hope that court decisions from other countries will be found useful. The whole article is disastrous in not linking to anything. Lawrence v. Texas, the citing of a European court was to counter a relevant claim; it didn't just come out of the blue. In Thompson v. Oklahoma I think it's also useful to look at what it actually said:

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The authors of the Eighth Amendment drafted a categorical prohibition against the infliction of cruel and unusual punishments, but they made no attempt to define the contours of that category. They delegated that task to future generations of judges who have been guided by the "evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society." Trop v. Dulles, 356 U.S. 86, 101 (1958) (plurality opinion) (Warren, C. J.). 4 In performing that task the [487 U.S. 815, 822]  Court has reviewed the work product of state legislatures and sentencing juries, 5 and has carefully considered the reasons why a civilized society may accept or reject the death penalty in certain types of cases. Thus, in confronting the question whether the youth of the defendant - more specifically, the fact that he was less than 16 years old at the time of his offense - is a sufficient reason for denying the State the power to sentence him to death, we first review relevant legislative enactments, 6 then refer to jury determinations, 7 and [487 U.S. 815, 823]  finally explain why these indicators of contemporary standards of decency confirm our judgment that such a young person is not capable of acting with the degree of culpability that can justify the ultimate penalty. 8 

By this point, I give the article a failing grade.

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What these courts are doing closely resembles Belgium’s concept of “universal jurisdiction,” under which its courts were asserting the authority to try criminally people involved in actions that have no connection to Belgium. A Belgian court tried and convicted Rwandan nuns for their actions during a massacre in Rwanda. The Belgian Supreme Court ruled in 2002 that Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon may be tried after he leaves office for alleged war crimes in Lebanon 20 years earlier when he was head of Israel’s army. Since massacres by Arabs are not prosecuted, it is difficult to disagree with Israelis who see anti-Semitism as an explanation for the difference. That is to be expected.
This was repealed in '02 or '03. Oh, but I only now noticed the article was published in '03, not '16. That excuses some of its worst offenses, but the ridiculous premise remains. The American legal system was founded on the customs of European colonists, primarily following and standardizing into English common law. These were adapted into their current American form, such as the constitution that defines the relationship between the branches of government. Incidentally, iirc Louisiana never adopted common law, but stuck with its French legal system. Courts and judges have always made policy (to a certain degree) by interpreting and applying the law. Such interpretation has never been a myopic US-only affair. Robert Bork may dislike it, but it stinks of recency illusion.

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #178
Robert Bork's article is arguing by innuendo, assumption, and impression, not by rational points. He never says what he wants and what he is aiming at. He only expresses disgust and horror. For example,

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Justice Sandra Day O’Connor in a recent speech said that decisions of other countries’ courts could be persuasive authority in American courts. At a time when 30 percent of the U.S. gross national product is internationally derived, she said, “no institution of government can afford to ignore the rest of the world.”

She is by no means alone on the Supreme Court. Six of that Court’s nine members have either written or joined in opinions citing foreign authorities. The most astonishing, or risible, so far was Justice Stephen Breyer’s opinion arguing that he found “useful” in interpreting our Constitution decisions by the Privy Council of Jamaica, and the Supreme Courts of India and Zimbabwe.
Bork doesn't say that he disagrees, much less why he disagrees. He simply assumes that the notion that the legal decisions of different countries may be usefully compared is cringe-worthy and that everybody self-evidently sees it his way. He goes on to foment panic by ad hominem: Zimbabwe has a dictator, therefore reference to foreign legal documents is astonishing or risible.

"We might as well learn our constitutional law from Saddam Hussein’s Iraq or Fidel Castro’s Cuba." As if reference to foreign legal documents were the same thing as learning domestic constitutional law. He might as well say that reference to foreign legal documents is the same thing as adopting them to replace the local constitution, because this is what he really seems to have in mind.

In reality, the same way as an individual must inevitably interact with society and arrive at a comprehension what's good in it and what's not, similarly a country is situated in the world and has a relative standard vis-a-vis the rest of the world. What matters is the good and the standard. There's nothing to do about the interaction and the situation; those are a given by virtue of living in this world.
Bork has something to say about bias. "International law in its higher reaches is usually heavily biased and political. As the Muslim populations of continental European nations rapidly increase, it is also to be expected that biased rulings will run heavily against Israel and the U.S." So, when something is against Israel or U.S., then it's biased, nevermind which actions of Israel or U.S. we are talking about. Europeans make biased decisions because they have Muslim population (as if U.S. didn't have Muslim population).

Bork doesn't like the concept of universal jurisdiction, not even when it's manifest where it's meant to be manifest, namely in international law. I can agree with Bork that it's silly when a country like Belgium has an unchecked concept of universal jurisdiction, but it's astonishing that he fails to notice the unchecked concept of universal jurisdiction in live action in U.S. behaviour all over the world. Wherever the U.S. chooses to look, they see "interests" that must be "protected" with heavy weaponry, never realising that for the rest of the world this is the same thing as aggression, attack, war against other countries randomly. And it's funny how American constitution only applies to American citizens while the citizens of other countries can, within the borders of U.S., be treated like vermin. Luckily this last treatment is steadily being applied to American citizens themselves, so they are gradually having some taste of their own legal system, if it be called a system.

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #179
It's amazing how parochial cosmopolitans can be… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #180
Speaking of International Law

“The sovereign is he who decides on the exception”
- Carl Schmitt, Nazi Germany’s chief jurist

Quote
- After World War II, the U.S. used its triumph to help create the United Nations, push for the adoption of its Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and ratify the Geneva Conventions for humanitarian treatment in war.
- Not only did the U.S. play a crucial role in writing the new rules for that community, but it almost immediately began breaking them.
source

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #181
Wikipedia gives more dates :yikes:  — but, of course, they don't meet your criterion… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #182
Breaking news: Supreme Court reverses reasoning, says "back alley" abortions required by "right" to privacy!
(Thomas' dissent begins at page 48 -PDF numbering.)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #183
A fellow who was for eight years a local radio host has an interesting take on Judge Posner's recent comments regarding studying the constitution… (The podcast is what I recommend.)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #184
And — since you all didn't like Bork's take on Ginsburg's "philosophy" of "international jurisprudence" — here's Ed Wheland's take… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #185
For those who haven't yet lost interest, here's a recent post referencing Posner's take — at the Volokh Conspiracy. (Have fun!)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #186
I guess I would need to read Posner's entire article because I'm not sure what Trumpism has to do with the constitution besides using it as toilet paper. I see Trumpism's genesis in groups such as the Tea Party; you you those folks with teabags hanging from their hats and unread pock copies of the constitution in their shirt pockets, where everybody can see them.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #187
Yeah, you probably would, Sang — but you won't… BTW: Eric is the son of Richard Posner! (The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.)
You might consider (although I don't expect you to…) that executive over-reach —during GW's and BO's administrations— and congress' failure to use its legitimate powers led to the rise of Trump. But we'll see what we see in early November.
You, of course, can continue to follow the weekly polls… It's what you do. That, and make unfounded predictions — while casting outrageous aspersions.
(I'll bet you still think the Supreme Court gave GW his 2000 victory… :) )
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #188
while casting outrageous aspersions.
Wow, and you don't even see the irony...
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

 

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #189
Once someone posted a voting paper so I could see how elections are in the USA.
Americans votes for everything, since firemen to police sergeants. Even to supreme court judges.

That's not a democracy, that's kindergarten.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #190
Americans votes for everything, since firemen to police sergeants.
You're delusional, Bel
Wow, and you don't even see the irony...
Do you mean that the Supreme Court didn't give the presidency to GW? :) You now believe this? Since when?
Let me remind you: The rules in place at the time of the election are "set in stone"… Unless you're Al Gore! But even Al realized that his ploys couldn't survive scrutiny, despite the connivance of the Florida Supreme Court.
And every other tally showed that GW won, fair and square.
That -I think- is what bothers you the most! :)
Your "meme" doesn't hold up… Bad for you, huh! :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #191
Belfrager has a fair point in the mental side. A supreme Court that is harried about on politics rather than law. Farcical and that system over there as bad as the political side.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #192
RJ, some states have retention elections and/or recall elections for state supreme court justices… As usual, you know just enough to rile yourself! :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #193
Nice try Oak but you legal thing is a terrible joke and like an  expensive theatre show. So you choose to overlook the obvious. What is the prison population - 2.3 million? For heavens sake. Then all those people on death row sometimes not just for months but damn years. Even a decade. How can a country claiming so much operate like that. Oh and throw in a whole series of execution styles. What an expensive razzmatazz passing for a legal world.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #194
you[r] legal thing is a terrible joke […]
Perhaps not not guilty… Unproven, then! :)
Let's face it squarely, RJ: You think everything American deserves your dis-approbation. That's just how you are…

(Of course, this is a much more rational —and long-standing— system! :) 2005 was such a long time ago! And the EU is — Oopsie! You're leaving that, aren't you? :)
Perhaps the "joke" you refer to — is on you?!

But I still think Mortimer's Rumpole stories better than Gardner's and Grisham's oeuvre put together…)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #195
Oakdale you lot and your country make it so easy to have a laugh and in a more formal way a global hypocrisy. Guff about law and order and a police force mad as a brush, courts that are like Hollywood farce. All the wide-scale organisations to spy on Americans costing billions and overlapping each other! Poverty, crime, injustice and you boast about principles?! The court system is unfortunately part of the overall farce about way the country is very unfortunately run. Indeed I would dare to say it looks like a farce and an entertainment more than anything else. And I would remind that your supreme court lot of judges are the source of political nonsense so hardly surprising courts lack dignity and quality.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #196
hardly surprising courts lack dignity and quality
Ah! You mean our justices don't wear ermine robes and wigs… Yes, I'd agree, very undignified. :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #197
And dear not very subtle smart alec man,  our courts are in sheer practice more formal and mature than the show business style stuff you are stuck with boy!  :D
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #198
But in yours, they get to play dress-up… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Replacing Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia

Reply #199
But a better system.  :happy:
"Quit you like men:be strong"