Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 335237 times)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #725 – 2015-01-22, 10:49:52

This thread is wandering all over the place because violence, where it has been pushed even though it started out as something about gun control, is not necessarily about guns.

If Scotland was labelled the most violent country in the developed world, it wasn't the worst for gun violence. Read the BBC piece from 2005.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4257966.stm

This excerpt from the article makes a good point.

Quote

I would question the compatibility of figures and the methods used in this particular survey because it must be near impossible to compare assault figures from one country to the next based on phone calls.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #726 – 2015-01-22, 11:15:22

Back to violence....

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #727 – 2015-01-23, 02:28:54

Quote from: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-22, 10:49:52

I would question the compatibility of figures and the methods used in this particular survey because it must be near impossible to compare assault figures from one country to the next based on phone calls.

Yes, but if they called residents from all developed countries you can still get a decent picture. If anything, the phone calls are liable to underestimate the violence because the people that wind up on the call lists are likely to be suburbanites less likely to be assaulted (in part the same problem with the presidential polling under estimating Obama's margin of victory in 2012 or even giving the election to Romney in Gallup's case- you wind up with a bunch of conservative suburbanites being called.)

[quote = the article] However, the president of the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland (Acpos), Peter Wilson, said that the "general picture" of Scotland around the world was "not one of a violent country". [/quote]

This brings back that America is not a violent country on the whole. There are pockets of violence, such as Detroit and Saint Louis that are result of incompetent and corrupt city management that kept elected by telling people what they want to hear. It wasn't the presence or absence of guns in those cities that caused the root problem. It was leadership that wasn't qualified to be the dog catcher much less mayor and city council. The specifics of the failures are for another thread.

Meanwhile, our friend Howie keeps quoting 10,000 gun deaths without looking to see that a disproportionate number of those deaths are in a few cities (note that those 15 cities account for 2872 for the total. The top one, NYC would seem to be in it's place merely by the sheer size of the city and not by murder rate. Other, better managed city of comparable size (and larger than some of the cities) , such Las Vegas and Nashville missed the list. Both sides of this debate have this disease of looking at the gun laws to tell the whole story. You have to look other factor such as what is the city doing to attract business and job growth, combat gang activity, etc.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #728 – 2015-01-23, 03:15:48

Let me say firstly that the gang idea is very much different from what is across the pind on the land of the free and home of the brave.We have nothing like say Los Angeles which must be amongst the most horrif and widespread. There are only a veritable handful og gangs and they are not able to control neighbourhoods like across the pond. The handful of such raucous youngsters gbeing such a small thing the police are right on the ball. Not having police who run about daily with guns and shoot unarmed trouble-makers there is a big difference. and because there are only a small crowd of amateur gangs in only selected bits and most certainly not all over the place not a widespread thing running into armies of them like Los Angeles and other places. So when a Glaswegian talks says in the clip about gangs, he/she is talking about something a lot more low-key than in say, America.

When the riots broke out in London several years ago over an incident with a low life shot by the special armed police squad it ledt to mayhem across cities all over England. And Scotland and especially Glasgow were not party to it. When one regular on the Opera Forum snottily said to wait until it happened up here i said it wouldn't and it didn't. Things down south are worse and we are amateurs in such. Neither do regular policeman go about armed and the special police armed units are not regular. When an incident requires them then a very intense investigation is carried out by the Independent Police Commissio. In America the gun toting cops can gun down unarfmed people and get away with it no matter how many bullets they pump into it.

When you compare things here with Europe that is a completely different picture than what happens in the ex-colonies which is up there in a special level. Wonder why your prisons are full to the lomits often, eh? My job took me all over Glasgow and including rough areas the Court involvement gave me a hands on picture and I have always felt safe here. Here the police are on the ball and not gun toting John Waynes. Outside of posh areas in the US are vastly different than here and when young I lived in one. They are better here than over the water!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #729 – 2015-01-24, 16:26:21

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-01-23, 03:15:48

When the riots broke out in London several years ago over an incident with a low life shot by the special armed police squad it ledt to mayhem across cities all over England.

Come now, Howie. There are plenty of riots an Glasgow.

British nationalists riot in Glasgow after Scotland's independence vote . In fact that one involved the Orange Order.

In 2010 New Park pupils rioted in a newly built park and injured several people.

Then in 2008 there was the Glasgow Rangers Riots.

Will you continue to pretend Glasgow is above riots and gangs all in the name of bad mouthing America and feeling superior, or can I stop?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #730 – 2015-01-24, 20:01:14

Just for information

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #731 – 2015-01-24, 22:48:10

So, you stand a higher chance of getting "offed" in Glasgow (3.3 per 100,000) than you do in Belfast (2.6 per 100,000) even though news reports say there's terrorist violence in Belfast-- which would naturally account for a high number of people getting murdered.

So--- the IRA is keeping things hopping in Belfast. I'm more than idly curious about which terrorist operations make the murder rate in Glasgow higher than Belfast.

Now---- before RJH chimes in let me say that "murdered is murdered" and you are equally dead whether your assailant used a gun, a knife, a broken bottle, a baseball bat, a brick or a hammer. Somebody murders you--- you're dead.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #732 – 2015-01-24, 23:03:29

Got curious, looked up Chicago. Now, of course the stats for Chicago for 2014 are--ahhhh-- spotty, because it's still only January and the official count isn't out yet. It's too high of course, with gang violence accounting for much of it. I did find something of interest, you can have a look below--- somebody did a huge amount of work in a short time to put that together.
I have lived a couple of different times in Chicago, in Garfield Park in 1989/90 and in South Austin from 2007/2009, and since I'm still here without any bullet holes I guess it's possible to live even in these neighborhoods without getting ventilated. See below:

http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #733 – 2015-01-25, 02:49:10

I wonder why it is Howie doesn't offer his constructive criticism to his beloved Russia, which nearly double the murder rate of the US and mafia running around (and probably in government?)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #734 – 2015-01-25, 03:14:13

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2015-01-25, 02:49:10

I wonder why it is Howie doesn't offer his constructive criticism to his beloved Russia, which nearly double the murder rate of the US and mafia running around (and probably in government?)

Suddenly that brings up another thought. Howie has tsarist sympathies-- he says as much. He also favors Putin. Now, I may be wrong here but-- Vladimir Putin is about as far from a tsarist as it's possible to get. He seems to me to be a hair from re-establishing the old Communist regime, if he can figure out how to get away with it. Re-establishing the House of Romanov would be the last thing I'd expect Putin to do. So--- Howie, how do these extremes come together?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #735 – 2015-01-25, 03:55:52

Firstyl recent murder figures are around 15 a year. This figure is down 40% in the last 10 years and violent crime roughly 30% so the last decade has seen a considerable fall so stick that in your face American dancers. As for riots what an exaggeration that word is in relation to Glasgow. We have had NOTHING like those large scale ones down in England following that shooting in London. The matter of George Suuare was NOT a large scale riot as in England or as happens in America. So blowing up the Referendum trouble into something massive is a load of keech. That would not have happened at all in the shouting if the Scottish Nationalsists had not started climbing all over the big War Cenotaph in front of the City Chambers. That was disgusting and the things they were saying was shameful. Now here is another fact that is ignored even if it makes Sanguinemoon imper. In the crime lists the two ate the top of Scotland's regions are 1. Glasgow and 2. West Dunbartonshire and what do you know both have large RC populations. When I was amongst a group from the District Court taken to visit Barlinnie Jail in the city the senior staff member on giving a short speech mentioned he was RC and smiled and we found out why. He informed us (I already knew) that RC's made up 18% of the population but in the jail some 37%.

Now to that other utterly stupid stuff from mjsmsprt40 about myself, Putin and Tsarism. I am most certainly a Monarchists (and Tsarist) and for him to come out with this kindergarten mind that is seemingly typical in the ex-colonies he says Putin is determined to take Russia back to the Communists days? I thought they had schools in Chicago but it just illustrates the limited mind stretch of the average Yank. Putin is from an ant-Communist Party (the Commies are still active with their own), he pushed business and commerce but the usual American mindset comes out talking complete nonsense as illustrated from the Chicago man. The US if it cannot control a country or the commercial side then it is an enemy. Putin gets an 80& poll rating and the US President gets 40%. Wonder when it was the last time a dictator in the White House got that, eh??

I don't mind you ex-colonists being stupid as you show it time and time again as well as your lack of knowledge of the world . and that other childish mentality nonsense from mjsmsprt40 about me sympathising with Tsarism and Putin and makes me laugh at that one. Two different time periods and systems only embellishes the problem the US has had with it's education system for ages. That complete ignorance says much!Now here is the interesting rub.

The gang here who think trying to hijack Glasgow my support for Putin, being a Monarchist is all because you brain dead Yanks live in a land of hypocrisy and two-faced politics and views. Over te time on opera and here when I raise something that flies in the face of that pointless bit of paper the Constitution or the so-called hihg principles you time after time NEVER ANSWER THEM. Instead you think you can skip them and do a dance. Indeed when i listed a whole range of things over the history of your violent, murderous police, war creating, racist and imperialism none were faced. This present thread on the nut job gun toting clowns went on for ages on Opera and the same here. Round in circles but then you are good at circles rather than able to answer what you don't like to hear.

Keep dancing child minds and take your time growing up!
Yours sincerely,

from a city that only gets 15+ murders a year and maybe I should apologise for not keeping up with killing America.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #736 – 2015-01-25, 05:14:11

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #737 – 2015-01-25, 11:05:58

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-01-25, 03:55:52

from a city that only gets 15+ murders a year and maybe I should apologise for not keeping up with killing America.

It's not the number of killings, it's the murder rate that matters.

Scotland still has a higher homicide rate than England and Wales, but it is dropping. Compared to countries with high homicide rates (Russia tops the list), it is very low. My old hometown, Detroit,with a murder rate of 45 per 100,000, is, by comparison, a living hell.

The murder rate for Scotland in 2014 was 1.8 per 100,000.

Compare that to rates for the following countries.
================

COUNTRY RATE
El Salvador   71
Honduras     67
Jamaica     60
Guatemala   52
Venezuela     49
Trinidad& Tob   43
Burundi     37
Lesotho     37
Colombia     35
South Africa   34
Belize     33
Brazil     22

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #738 – 2015-01-25, 11:49:10

Quote from: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-25, 11:05:58

My old hometown, Detroit,with a murder rate of 45 per 100,000, is, by comparison, a living hell.

And Amsterdam is, according to ersi's link, the deadliest capital of Europe at 4.4 per 100,000. Oy!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #739 – 2015-01-25, 19:17:54

This is still an excuse to deviate from the killing fields of the ex-colonies. Even the Windy City man could not answer my charge about the corruption in the Chicago PD for over ten years in a review a while back here. As jails are overflowing in the ex-colonies too it tells us something. Stuff the rate excuse as that would be used for the 10,000 gunned down over there annually and the fact that the police can and DO get away with murder.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #740 – 2015-01-25, 22:22:58

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #741 – 2015-01-25, 22:39:03

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-01-25, 19:17:54

This is still an excuse to deviate from the killing fields of the ex-colonies. Even the Windy City man could not answer my charge about the corruption in the Chicago PD for over ten years in a review a while back here. As jails are overflowing in the ex-colonies too it tells us something. Stuff the rate excuse as that would be used for the 10,000 gunned down over there annually and the fact that the police can and DO get away with murder.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #742 – 2015-01-25, 22:43:52

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2015-01-25, 22:39:03

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-01-25, 19:17:54

This is still an excuse to deviate from the killing fields of the ex-colonies. Even the Windy City man could not answer my charge about the corruption in the Chicago PD for over ten years in a review a while back here. As jails are overflowing in the ex-colonies too it tells us something. Stuff the rate excuse as that would be used for the 10,000 gunned down over there annually and the fact that the police can and DO get away with murder.

Agreed. When he can learn to "keep a civil tongue in his head" maybe I'll answer him. While his every effort seems to be grabbing us by the scruff of the neck and rubbing our noses in whatever stink he digs up--- he can pound sand.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #743 – 2015-01-25, 23:15:47

Here's a smiley to use then just fer RJ

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #744 – 2015-01-26, 02:39:47

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-01-25, 03:55:52

He informed us (I already knew) that RC's made up 18% of the population but in the jail some 37%.

And why would that be? How many Orange leaning coppers are looking to lock up a Paddy?

Quote from: tt92 on 2015-01-25, 22:22:58

I'll try to translate it for you. I'm not sure how good of a job I'll do, but I'll give it a go

He said something about killing fields, so I think he's talking about Cambodia. I remember a film about the Pol Pot regime titled The Killing Fields . It remains unclear how this relates to gun control, though.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #745 – 2015-01-28, 22:00:21

A picture is worth a thousand words................................

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #746 – 2015-01-28, 22:25:09

Now, now, Sanguinemoon. Your Irish-American brain damage is on overtime. May I almost with a groan remind you of my visit to that prison and what the senior official said about the RC's being totally out of proportion to their numbers. And he saying he was RC and joked that maybe the confessional was to blame. Anyway a country like America with a daft legal system that has condemned people on death row for years and sometimes ten years? Jails everywhere are filled to the top, ten thousand shot dead annually, police that can do what they damn well like are hardly on solid ground looking at anyone else!

Anyway having been stretched out on Opera and most certainly the same here it is not only overdone it is just an excuse for that we boy,ehrm, oh, yes, Smiley to waffle and probably still has a cowboy suit. Maybe this one will die a death and he can get occupied playing snap or playing with toys?

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #747 – 2015-01-28, 22:45:43

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-01-28, 22:25:09

May I almost with a groan remind you of my visit to that prison [...]

At any decent prisionary system he wouldn't be allowed to go out...

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #748 – 2015-01-28, 22:52:20

Defensive Gun Use Saves Lives

[glow=blue,2,300]Robbery suspect shot, killed by intended victim in Red Bird area of Dallas [/glow]

Quote from: The Dallas Morning News http://bit.ly/1CNrkpk

Dallas police say an armed robbery suspect was killed when his intended victim pulled his own gun and shot the suspect early Thursday.

Authorities say Victor D. Logan, 19, was attempting to rob another man at gunpoint about 1 a.m. in the 7200 block of Chesterfield Drive, near Southwest Center Mall.

That man, identified as 38-year-old Larico Jackson, pulled a handgun and shot Logan in self-defense, police said.

Logan, who was shot multiple times, made it into his vehicle and sped away but didn’t make it far before crashing into a bus stop.

He was taken to Methodist Charlton Medical Center but died from his injuries. Jackson was unhurt, and he has been questioned and released.........

Gun's save lives.

That criminal won't threaten anyone else.......ever.

May he rot in hell.......good riddance!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #749 – 2015-01-28, 22:56:05

I think that if everyone gets guns, which is a good thing, than criminals also should get more guns.
Just to keep things balanced. If criminals don't have guns, what would people say in order to get guns?
Guns for all. That's fair.

Poll

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?