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Topic: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West (Read 45601 times)

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #76 –
Quote from: string on
fortunately no bomb came to our home, but there were a lot of places that did get bombed in the UK, and those bombs were not iaselective either.

I can tut-tut with the best of them about indiscriminate bombing, can't get to worked up about Dresden I'm afraid.

We have this saying:

"What goes around comes around".


I think it is fair to say that none of the parties in WWII were overly concerned with civilian casualties of their enemies (maybe to a slight degree the Americans in Europe, but not to a degree that it mattered).

As for the comings and goings around, Britain bombed Germany before Germany bombed Britain, and gave more than they received. I'd rather wish they didn't bomb Dresden, though that might have led to increased Czech casualties, but in any case Dresden is nicely reconstructed after the reunification of Germany.

It is a city worth visiting, PEGIDA notwithstanding (moving us neatly back on topic).

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #77 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Dresden was a major transportation, communications and manufacturing hub.

You are only parroting (like some historians) the US lie that the bombings were neccessary. Good luck with that.
Dresden was of little if no military importance. Besides, the extensive industrial complex haven't been even touched during the bombing. Not even military barracks were bombed but the military hospital. The target of the bombing was the overpopulated city center. You can't twist this no matter how hard you'd try! Overpopulated city because of the more than 600.000 German refugees from the eastern territories. They've fled to Dresden in the general believe that a city with no military importance won't get bombed...

Quote from: Frenzie on

Without the bombing of Dresden, requested by the Soviets I might add,...

Another attemt to whitewash the war crime is the unproven allegation that Stalin asked for it. Since Stalin is the bad guy anyway, let us try to give him complicity. Very clever...

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #78 –
Before ww2, germans learned a strange brand of history.
It seems to be happening again.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #79 –
@tt92
You seem to be an expert for what Germans have learned before WWII and after.
Let's hope you're as expert in the history of the place you are living...

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #80 –
Tad bit of arm-chair quarterbacking going on.

Quote from: krake on
You can't twist this no matter how hard you'd try!

It's easier for an octopus to get all twisted up. 

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #81 –
Personally, I would have hoped that we would have developed the A Bomb sooner so to drop it on those Goose Steppin' Krauts a few times, instead of eventually only having the pleasure of dispatching them squinty eyed Japs later on.

Who knows, that might have saved many more thousands of American troops, & some Japs (as if I could care less) too.



Back on topic:

Quote
Not since 9/11 has there been year in which the Religion of Peace Islam distinguished itself as it did in 2014.  The fruit of Muslim immigration began to appear in Canada and Australia, and the eagerly anticipated revival of the caliphate introduced standards of brutality to the 21st century that even gave al-Qaeda the willies.

The most shocking story of the year may be the ongoing rape, forced conversion and open selling of minority women and
children for sex slavery in the name of Allah - as the world looks on.






[glow=black,2,300]Retreating of the Queen's Guard:
End of an era as palace sentries fall back in face of mounting fears
of new 'lone wolf' terrorist attack.[/glow]







Quote from:     DAILY MAIL   http://dailym.ai/1xsVfTe    


  * Security bosses have withdrawn Royal Guards from posts outside palaces amid fears of a 'lone wolf' terror attack

   * Elite soldiers of the Queen's Guard no longer allowed on sentry duty alone and are accompanied by armed police

  * But the measures have been described as a ‘retreat’ for the Guards, known the world over for their bearskin caps

   * Changes confirmed at sites including Clarence House, St James’s Palace, Windsor Castle and Horse Guards Parade



..........CONTINUED HERE.............

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #82 –
Quote
bombings were neccessary

i sometimes also can not understand why Murica loves to Bombing .
does that  make sense ,   peace can be achieved by Bombing certain areas  ?.
but it works for Japan didnt it ?

and why Murica A-bombs Cities with no military values .
i think the pattern is same with , why terrorists bombing civilians .
not Pentagon , nor military departments .

my assumption,  it is to planted "Fear " .



Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #83 –
Jihadis are proven cowards, so they will hit the easiest targets, where the have virtually unfettered access, & where the media attention would probably be the most favorable to their cause.


[glow=black,2,300]Jihadis call for attacks on UK airlines to
“crush the enemy’s economy”[/glow]




Quote from:      Jihad Watch     http://bit.ly/1y0yeqf    


Time for British authorities to practice more appeasement and capitulation.

“Terrorist chiefs issue ‘lone wolf’ threat to British Airways and EasyJet,” by Russell Myers, Mirror, December 28, 2014:

    Terrorist overlords have ordered aspiring jihadists to bomb EasyJet and British Airways flights.

    Al-Qaeda chiefs want “lone wolf” bombers to hit the UK airlines to get widespread publicity and “crush the enemy’s economy”.

    The chilling threat emerged in the terror group’s online publication, Inspire.

    The gang says such attacks on the global brands would be useful as a means of securing widespread media headlines and “crushing the enemy’s economy”.

    The magazine, released on Christmas Eve, names British Airways because it is the ‘flag carrier airline of the United Kingdom’ and the largest airline by number of planes.

    Budget carrier EasyJet is equally targeted because it “is a low cost carrier, hence has a large number of passengers.”

    Jihadists are instructed to identify “airports with the least security measures” and take their inspiration from Umar Farouk Abdulmuttalab, the “Underpants Bomber” who tried and failed to blow up a plane bound for Detroit from Amsterdam on Christmas Day 2009 with a homemade bomb hidden in his underwear bomb.

    He is now serving a life sentence in the US for the attack.

    The first issue of Inspire, published in 2010, contained a notorious explosives guide called Make a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom.

    The manual was suspected to have been the template for explosives which killed three and injured more than 250 in last year’s Boston Marathon bombings….........


Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #84 –
IMHO Cowards is not a right term for that kind of action .
since they have balls to fight kafirs / infidels .

i think idiot is more correct .

some one that smart enough aint fight with something stronger  .
but an idiot will still fight even they know they aint win , nor make themself loosing their Lifes .

idiocy + balls ( ability to ignore options ) =   Catastrophe .

not to mention..
AFAIK..  Scientifically , Homosapiens will still using Fight or Flight due to Amygdala Hijack .
it seems , this kind of issues will remain , until undefined times .

btw , anyone have ideas to Universally   prevent Charlatans to produce more idiots ?

.


Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #85 –
Quote from: krake on
You are only parroting (like some historians) the US lie that the bombings were neccessary. Good luck with that.

Again, just because the bombings may not have been necessary doesn't mean they may not have reasonably appeared necessary at the time. That much is basic logic and it has nothing to do with any historians.

In February 1945 the war wasn't nearly over. It was not that long after the spectacular failure of Operation Market Garden, and the Ardennes offensive proved Germany was still quite capable. In September '44 the war was almost over. In February '45 the war might easily have lasted another year.* We know now that as usual Hitler's operational involvement in strategic planning prevented Germany from emerging victoriously from the Battle of the Bulge — thank God for that corporal's megalomania — and that the failure of the offensive caused the bulk of Germany's most elite troops to be taken as POW. With emphasis on now.

* The German army in the Netherlands was still in very good condition when it capitulated on May 5, 1945. And in fact the German army occupied my island of birth until May 20, in spite of liberation day being celebrated on May 5. In short, the situation in May 1945 wasn't terribly different from the situation in September 1944, except for Hitler's death. Slow down the Soviet advance in Silesia (i.e. don't bomb Dresden) and who knows how much longer until Hitler committed suicide…

Quote from: krake on
Dresden was of little if no military importance. Besides, the extensive industrial complex (emphasis added)

Umm… okay then. But aside from this contradiction, you should be well aware that factories used to be spread throughout inner cities, including big names like Zeiss but also e.g. the production of bodies for V1s took place in the inner city's workshops. This is not America, with its colonial Dutch well-planned cities with their clearly designated industrial areas. You have this extremely odd habit of speaking of Europe as if it were America.

Quote
haven't been even touched during the bombing. Not even military barracks were bombed but the military hospital. The target of the bombing was the overpopulated city center. You can't twist this no matter how hard you'd try!

That's essentially what I said, so I think it's you who's a bit twisted. The policy of trying to avoid civilian targets had already been abandoned in 1942 or 1943 at the latest. I don't consider that a good thing, but it also wasn't a war crime by the rules of the time. One is forced to admit that neither were the bombings of e.g. Rotterdam, Coventry, London and Antwerp.

Kassel was bombed in 1943. 10,000 dead. Is that or countless other examples really that different from Dresden? In hindsight it's clear that Germany had already lost the war by then, with or without bombings. The bombings were to some extent just a psychological means of showing that Germany proper could actually be hit. In hindsight we now know that German arms production reached an all time high in '44/'45 in spite of the bombings. At the same time, most bombings up to and including Dresden did very much hamper Germany's infrastructure and manufacturing capabilities** and as such save Allied lives. Or to put it a different way, German non-combatants were considered a fair exchange for Allied soldiers' lives, which happens to include Soviet soldiers.

You implied that Dresden hadn't been bombed before because it was of no military importance, but basic logic isn't too friendly to that argument either for two reasons. First, cities like Berlin and Dresden were at the very edge of the range of the bombers. Given a choice between Dresden and Berlin, you go for Berlin first. Second, even if Dresden weren't of much military importance, its sheer existence as an unharmed city would make it so. It appears as if you fixate on Dresden just because there were a few American bombers involved, which somehow makes you happily repeat Goebbels' press releases.

** I know this looks like a contradiction, but having to repair or move existing factories takes attention away from other things like upgrading them.

Quote from: krake on
Another attemt to whitewash the war crime is the unproven allegation that Stalin asked for it. Since Stalin is the bad guy anyway, let us try to give him complicity. Very clever...

How on earth would something be whitewashed through saying we did it 'cause Stalin (???) asked? Btw, I always thought it was general Antonov.

Quote from: Sparta on
i sometimes also can not understand why Murica loves to Bombing .
does that  make sense ,   peace can be achieved by Bombing certain areas  ?.
but it works for Japan didnt it ?

and why Murica A-bombs Cities with no military values .
i think the pattern is same with , why terrorists bombing civilians .
not Pentagon , nor military departments .

my assumption,  it is to planted "Fear " .

For the record, the bombing of Germany was primarily executed and coordinated by the RAF, later with assistance from the USAF.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #86 –
I guess Sparta didn't refer to Europe/Germany.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #87 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

For the record, the bombing of Germany was primarily executed and coordinated by the RAF

Most germans would probably think of this when they see 'bombing' and 'RAF' in one sentence :right:

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #88 –
Quote from: Sparta on
my assumption,  it is to planted "Fear " .


No. To break the hold Imperial power and religious belief held. They threw themselves off cliffs by the thousands when faced with defeat due to those influences. Fear seems a pointless tool for that. You need acceptance that those deeply held beliefs are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saipan
Quote
Emperor Hirohito personally found the threat of defection of Japanese civilians disturbing.[12] Much of the community was of low caste, and there was a risk that live civilians would be surprised by generous U.S. treatment. Native Japanese sympathizers would hand the Americans a powerful propaganda weapon to subvert the "fighting spirit" of Japan in radio broadcasts. At the end of June, Hirohito sent out an imperial order encouraging the civilians of Saipan to commit suicide.[12] The order authorized the commander of Saipan to promise civilians who died there an equal spiritual status in the afterlife with those of soldiers perishing in combat.


How many lives did those bombs save? That's significant. Those bombs did their job so well nukes have never been used again and even the threat they might was a war in its self. Japan was rebuilt. So even lessons or tragedies of the first World War were paid in full. Just as WWII has paid the way for the morals everyone holds so sacred today. But you can't judge those times by the lessons learned from them.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #89 –
Quote from: jax on
I guess Sparta didn't refer to Europe/Germany.

I heard a statistic about Vietnam once compared to WW2, but I can't remember the specifics nor did I verify its accuracy at the time. It was something like every week or month they dropped as many bombs (or kilotons?) as through the whole of WW2.

Quote from: Macallan on

Quote from: Frenzie on

For the record, the bombing of Germany was primarily executed and coordinated by the RAF

Most germans would probably think of this when they see 'bombing' and 'RAF' in one sentence :right:

Yeah, I'm well familiar with the acronym, although it's not the first association in my mind.

Quote from: ensbb3 on
How many lives did those bombs save? That's significant. Those bombs did their job so well nukes have never been used again and even the threat they might was a war in its self. Japan was rebuilt. So even lessons or tragedies of the first World War were paid in full. Just as WWII has paid the way for the morals everyone holds so sacred today. But you can't judge those times by the lessons learned from them.

I'm not sure that line of reasoning applies for Nagasaki. In any case, once more I think it's unfair to treat this from our present-day "omniscient" perspective. The Japanese government at the time was determined to make peace with the Allies even if it meant doing it on the Allies' terms. They were pretty much only keeping up appearances for the army, the navy, and the Americans. With hindsight you might therefore say that Japan was probably going to surrender unconditionally pretty soon either way and any justification disappears like snow before the sun. The thing is, of course, this wasn't known outside of a select few top government officials even in Japan itself, making this kind of objection meaningless.

However, I do think valid possible objections are why not a warning shot of sorts first, on top of which why it was necessary to bomb Nagasaki as well. Of course, I say this in near-complete ignorance of the consequences of bushido. I imagine they took great care to query all of the relevant cultural experts.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #90 –
Quote
Fear seems a pointless tool for that

it is always works .

even the Bushido , calmed their aggressivity .

intended or unintended , Muricans even created new kind of Phobia .
Nucleomituphobia.

amygdala hijack brah, Fight or flee.
since 200.000 years ago .
as far as i know.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #91 –
Quote from: frenzie
However, I do think valid possible objections are why not a warning shot of sorts first, on top of which why it was necessary to bomb Nagasaki as well. Of course, I say this in near-complete ignorance of the consequences of bushido. I imagine they took great care to query all of the relevant cultural experts.


Regarding warnings of conventional bombing- "Japanese regarded the leaflet messages as truthful, but anyone who was caught in possession of one was arrested."

Not something the US would of known but we are cheating a bit. Mostly tho, they only had two. No assurances they even worked, both were different. But there was no sign of capitulation after the first and the only terms they ever offered involved no occupation. No bueno after they surprise attack during peace talks.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #92 –
Japan neighbour is china .
when they said "Peace " .
it seems  it mean , they will Build New Power to strike back .

that is the 36th strategy from the 36 strategems .

i dont think Japan didn't use that War stratagems in their military .
nor Muricans did not aware with that tricks .
in my opinion , Muricans  want to make sure japs is Surrendered ( in the real term ) .

with  A-bomb them .

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #93 –
Sorry my replies are getting brief, I've gotta start this day eventually...

There was a change in presidents to consider and It was long decided anything less than unconditional was likely a prelude to another conflict. Pushing the war to an end before Russia could make a mess of it all was also wise. You don't tip your hat with a warning when you only have two (the number it took for the results desired btw) weapons that are no sure thing especially after they know how you'll deliver it and how vital it is they stop it. They did pick military targets and responded with what was available with the best chance of results. Such was the time. To suggest Truman was eager to A-bomb Japan is short-sided and just plain wrong. The US didn't pick to bomb in Europe during the day, costing more airman's lives, to save some civilian casualties just to reject humanity as soon as they could kill untold more at once.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #94 –
@Frenzie

Quote
The city was not a military target. It was known as a cultural center full of beautiful architecture with some buildings dating back a thousand years. Also, Dresden was undefended: no searchlights, no bursting flak. Dresden was a civilian target. The thing that is so shocking about Dresden is that they didn’t bomb it to destroy military infrastructure and help the war, it was purely to terrorize the German people.
source

More than 700.000 phosphorus bombs. The casualties have been officially reduced to more than one-tenth of the real counted numbers in order to prevent anti-american resentiment among Germans after the war. Those are now the 'official' numbers in history books...

You are comparing the bombing of Kassel (10.000 deaths) with that of Dresden?
You could compare the bombing of Kassel with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well. Only problem, they are not realistic comparisons but fine for playing down war crimes.
BTW, are you aware that Dresden had more victims than Hiroshima?

And since you are from Europe and also can speak German, the short article below is from the Spiegel (19.06.1963). It's one of the very few articles which have escaped (self)-censorship, till now at least.
Sodom in Sachsen
LUFTKRIEG

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #95 –
Quote
The city was not a military target. It was known as a cultural center full of beautiful architecture with some buildings dating back a thousand years. Also, Dresden was undefended: no searchlights, no bursting flak. Dresden was a civilian target. The thing that is so shocking about Dresden is that they didn’t bomb it to destroy military infrastructure and help the war, it was purely to terrorize the German people.
source

Quoth Goebbels. The whole of Germany and its occupied territories was focused almost on one thing and one thing only: the German war effort. Dresden wasn't some kind of detached artistic paradise.

Quote from: krake on
You could compare the bombing of Kassel with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well. Only problem, they are not realistic comparisons but fine for playing down war crimes.

Hardly. The exact opposite happens by focusing on Dresden just because the destruction was twice as large. Dresden was a large but not exceptional amount of bombs coupled with some (un)fortunate circumstances. Is Dresden one of the worst examples of a single bombing? Of course. But it really isn't fundamentally different from all of the other bombings that were occurring day in day out. For a mediocre treatment of the subject matter, see here. At the very least it gets the logic right. Its point of view is that Dresden wasn't really all that different, but the entire bombing operation was one large war crime. I'm not quite convinced that is an accurate thing to say within the context of WW2, but it's coherent.

Quote from: krake on
And since you are from Europe and also can speak German, the short article below is from the Spiegel (19.06.1963). It's one of the very few articles which have escaped (self)-censorship, till now at least.
Sodom in Sachsen
LUFTKRIEG

That article merely summarizes a widely discredited book by David Irving.

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #96 –
NAZI is not Germany , or is it ?
anyway that was a War .
Should Britain also Blame Germany too because NAZI bombard their land for more than 200 days ?


Well .. at least not all NAZI is terrifying .

he even apologize to the World .


Btw Krake  , your Whole argument is sounds like Appeal to emotion .

What is your agenda ? 

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #97 –
If Germany had not went all out to bomb non-military targets in Gt Britain then what happened to Nazi cities like Dresden would not have occurred. There were some very important historical buildings bombed in Britain. London had a dastardly bit of suffering and damage as did other cities like across the country but especially the capital. Belfast had horrific matters and next to my city the town of Clydebank was virtually all but flattened.

As for the thread the latest damnable matter regarding Islam is the moving back behind fences of palace guards and the regular added guarding of them by armed police officers. Just the latest nonsense because many Muslims are against foreign policies. We are constantly having to be concerned about security and this is the latest change to our traditions. Just shows that democracy and Islam I have always said  are not comfortable together and if these people cannot act like normal people they should get to heck out of here and go back to the duh thinking of their homelands. Across on mainland Europe semi-regular incidents are commonplace like France where several times people have been deliberately run over by cars. Places cannot simply go oin having to change their way of life because these juvenile minds want to change us.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #98 –
Quote
democracy and Islam are not comfortable together

as i seen , they are love democracy so much , always using Democracy methodes , and want to Live in the principles of Democracy .
but they do not want to be called  as Democracy Fundamentalist , nor Democracist .

as if they want to be a capitalist , but do not want to be called as Capitalist .
nor they want to live in justice Principles , but do not want to be called as Socialist .

therefore , perhaps the most correct term for them is Hypocrisy-retard

Re: ISLAMIC TERRORISM -- Home Grown, Self-Radicalized Terrorists Attack the West

Reply #99 –
Quote from: rjhowie on

If Germany had not went all out to bomb non-military targets in Gt Britain then what happened to Nazi cities like Dresden would not have occurred. There were some very important historical buildings bombed in Britain. London had a dastardly bit of suffering and damage as did other cities like across the country but especially the capital.


Nonsense. As mentioned Britain bombed Germany before Germany bombed Britain. More to the point, while you and Krake seem to agree that the bombing of Dresden was meaningless revenge, there were reasons for the bombing, maybe not sound ones. Finally, while the suffering in London would have been immense by today's standard, by the standards of WWII London got off very lightly.