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Poll

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?

Absolutely Yes!
I thinks so.
I don't think so.
Definitely No!
My name isn't String, so let me have a icy cold beer so I can ponder the options...
Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 335039 times)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #325 –
That's a terrifying thought. Guys who actually think like that are armed. Pleasant dreams, everyone.

Note: NRA membership in and of itself is not a reliable indicator of gun ownership. My Dad was a member, but had no guns. Good thing, too, because in his later years he wasn't the most stable person I've known. He's used guns-- as a soldier in WW2 and then once or twice getting rid of varmints in the garden, but in the years since 1960--- nope no guns.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #327 –
In fact, it is correct that percentage of households with a gun has been decreasing for decades. Even if some people like you would lie (indicating that you probably shouldn't have a gun....) most tell the truth. This is data going back to at least 1973. You should check it for yourself. Multiple polls Pew, Gallop, General Social Survey all show this same results. Gallup shows the highest rate of gunownership, but they seem to have a (probably accidental) conservative bias in their sampling as shown by their predications that Romney would win. There was a somewhat of a spike across all polls around 2010-2011, then the numbers start decreasing again.  This isn't even new. As far back as 1999, even Gallup noted what it calls "a broad decline" in gunowners rates; since then it continued to decline. There are some years showing an increase, but that's why we look at long term trends.



Now if you consider that debatable, what about the actual number of guns? How many of the 300 million are decades old and not even in firing order?

It comes down there not being as much reason to own a gun anymore. With urbanizations, there's not as much need to hunt for food, defend your cattle from predators, chase away animals trying to eat your crops, etc.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #329 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on
In fact, it is correct that percentage of households with a gun has been decreasing for decades. Even if some people like you would lie (indicating that you probably shouldn't have a gun....) most tell the truth.


And pray-tell how do you come to that conclusion...............your proof, or again just your overactive fertile imagination??

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on
How many of the 300 million are decades old and not even in firing order?


What imbecile claimed that they knew exactly how well how many of them worked?

Sounds leftist to me.......

Geeeez, was it you???  It was you, wasn't it........Sounds like your kind of polling!

You mixin' yer cocaine with peyote again!!???

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #330 –
Quote from:    How many guns are sold in the US?    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/dec/17/how-many-guns-us    
.......However, if you want to know how many applications there are to buy guns each year, then the latest data from the FBI shows that 2012 looks like a bumper year for gun sales in America........

.......If you want to find out exactly how many guns are sold in the US each year, then the figures are not recorded........

.........The figures show that there have been 16,808,538 applications in 2012 so far to the end of November *. If they were approved, that would be enough weapons to stock every member of Nato's armed forces nearly five times over. The system has received 156,577,260 applications since 1998 and the US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world......


* That's an average of over 50,000 per day

Yeah 'Coony.......going down.....way, way, way down! 

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on
Even if some people like you would lie (indicating that you probably shouldn't have a gun....)


Geeeeez, imagine that, lying to a pollster now precludes someone from owning a gun!!!!!!   .........     .............boy, oh boy, oh boy, am I so freekin' glad your furry lil ass doesn't have anything whatsoever to do in the decision making on my guns.........by your reasoning, I'd owe someone more guns than I own...........that's assuming that I own any in the first place!!??   

What's that crystal ball saying to you now 'coony??      How many I got....how many!!!? 


 

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #331 –
Sang, before I go on to the next page (14! My, my: Some things never change…) let me quote this comment to an article which you likely haven't read either:
Quote
Comment & Response | November 25, 2013
Firearm Legislation and Gun-Related Fatalities
Anupam B. Jena, MD, PhD1; Eric C. Sun, MD, PhD2; Vinay Prasad, MD3
JAMA Intern Med. 2013;173(21):2011. doi:10.1001/jamainternmed.2013.9958.

To the Editor With regard to the study by Fleegler et al,1 critics of stronger gun control policies argue that there is no rational impetus to strengthen the laws. They note that gun-related deaths have remained constant over the last 10 years; 10.4 gun-related deaths per 100 000 in the United States in 2002 and 10.3 per 100 000 in 2011.
(source)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #332 –
Quote from: SmileyFaze on
your proof, or again just your overactive fertile imagination??

Sorry to be so late to this part… But I take exception to your characterization of Sanguinemoon's imagination as "fertile"! Surely, you meant "fervid"? :)
—————————————————————
I'd ask everyone here to consider the viewpoint presented <a href="http://takimag.com/article/the_mental_illness_cop_out_jim_goad">here…[/url].
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #333 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on

Quote from: SmileyFaze on
your proof, or again just your overactive fertile imagination??

Sorry to be so late to this part… But I take exception to your characterization of Sanguinemoon's imagination as "fertile"! Surely, you meant "fervid"? :)


But of course! Mea culpa, mea culpa!!!

Damn f&@#%n'  spellchecker!!!!

BTW.... welcome back....hope all's been well with you.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #334 –
Thanks for asking, SmileyFaze. I won't complain.

I'm glad to see how many of "us" have made the transition to Frenzie's well-kempt refuge!
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #335 –
Quote from: SmileyFaze on

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on
In fact, it is correct that percentage of households with a gun has been decreasing for decades. Even if some people like you would lie (indicating that you probably shouldn't have a gun....) most tell the truth.


And pray-tell how do you come to that conclusion...............your proof, or again just your overactive fertile imagination??

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on
How many of the 300 million are decades old and not even in firing order?


What imbecile claimed that they knew exactly how well how many of them worked?

Sounds leftist to me.......

Geeeez, was it you???  It was you, wasn't it........Sounds like your kind of polling!

You mixin' yer cocaine with peyote again!!???
It's not Leftist or Rightist or political at all. The frequently made claim is that there are 300 million + guns in the US. If they don't work, there is nearly that many, is there? Therefore, the claim you, yourself made is disingenuous.

About the percentage of households with guns having declined, no imagination is necessary.  There are multiple data points indicating this. Using decades of past data, is far from using a crystal ball. I continue to notice your failure to come up with a real answer. Yes, some people lie to pollsters, there are sampling errors, etc. That's why there's a built in margin of error. You can't explain away four decades of consistent data that way.

I remember the last time the Republican party denied and guffawed at  mostly consistent polling data, not to mentioned tried to explain it away. Some even tried to "correct" it. That was in 2012. Get it?
 

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #336 –
The claim of the total number of guns in the US doesn't mean much anyway. You have to figure that Smiley-types have arsenals that could equip half their towns with sufficient firepower to repel a zombie attack, while a great many people have no firearms at all. Sooooo-- three-hundred-million guns is a meaningless number in and of itself. For all the great size of a personal arsenal, remember that a man can only fire one, or at the most two, guns at any one time. So, most of those guns are just sitting there waiting for their turn to be used. Then, too, consider that guns have different primary purposes. An AR-15 is a remarkably poor choice for duck-hunting and is unlikely to be used for this purpose. A .22 pistol can be used for home protection, but probably wouldn't be your first choice for that purpose. A 30.06 rifle-- deer hunting, but can be used as a sniper rifle in a pinch. So a gun owner might well have several guns for several different purposes, and will choose his weapon according to the job at hand.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #337 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
The claim of the total number of guns in the US doesn't mean much anyway........


You're correct, it just simply says that if it ever comes down to it, resistance would be a formidable force against tyranny.

For what it's worth, & might I say without reservation, that if it came to an armed conflict with a tyrannical government, all my firearms & ammunitions, would be dispensed to all my fellow American Patriots.

We have discussed these exact issues at great length over the last 10-15 years, & plans have been in place for quite a while.

If they want our guns, they are more than welcome to them....but know full well we will not go down without a fight!

Years ago I took a solemn oath to protect & defend the United States Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic..........The price I was willing to pay was the ultimate one.....I stand by that oath to this day, & evermore.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #338 –
Quote from: SmileyFaze on
Years ago I took a solemn oath to protect & defend the United States Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic..........The price I was willing to pay was the ultimate one.....I stand by that oath to this day, & evermore.

Is that right? The problem is that it's become so fashionable to claim to be a constitutionalist or  libertarian but, in fact, are merely social conservatives or far right neo-cons supporting a blatantly unconstitutional agenda.

You support the second amendment, obviously, but what about the 14th. It''s quickly becoming established constitutional law that same-sex marriage must be allowed under the 14th amendment, case after case. It's hard to intelligently even blame it on "activist judges" anymore. If you were truly interested in defending the constitution, you would now be forced to support equal marriage on constitutional grounds as a principled stance, regardless of personal feelings on the subject.

Flag burning. You would have support somebody's right to burn the American flag as an expression of his first amendment rights, no matter how it might personally offend you.

Actually being a stronger supporter of the Constitution is much harder than trying to wax eloquent about it,   It means supporting the right to say and do things that utterly disgust you. Or are you another worthless sunny day constitutionalist only upholding the document that guarantees our freedoms on your own issues? 

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #339 –
As far as my oath, my statement stands as is......

I suggest, if you wish to vent your obsessions with how many boys zippers you may have unzipped, or how many flags you may have burned, etc...etc...etc.....etc......etc......etc......etc......I respectfully request that you vent them in those threads devoted to those subjects, & if they don't exist please feel free to create them.


[glow=blue,2,300]This thread is devoted to Gun Control, & the Owning, Carrying, & the Using of Firearms by Ordinary Citizens. [/glow]

Quote from:     https://gosar.house.gov/issue/second-amendment-gun-rights    
The Second Amendment is one of the most important rights set forth by the Bill of Rights.  The operative text states that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”  In spite of the clarity of this amendment, we have seen repeated, consistent, and sustained attacks on this right and efforts across the spectrum to “infringe” on this individual right.  In the Federalist No. 46, James Madison explained that because American citizens were typically armed, the federal government would be unable to exert power beyond the powers enumerated in the Constitution.  Madison explained that in contrast to European nations where “the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms” the Untied States would rely on an armed citizenry to protect themselves, their families, and the nation.  I will continue to oppose efforts to restrict, infringe, or remove this constitutionally protected right.  One important piece of pro-Second Amendment legislation that I have cosponsored is H.R. 822, the National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act.  This bill would allow any person with a valid concealed carry permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed permits, or at least does not prohibit carrying concealed firearms.  This requirement for states to recognize each other’s carry permits is not meant to create a federal licensing system or circumvent state law, but simply ease the transition for lawful gun owners traveling within right to carry states...........continued


What do you think about the [glow=blue,2,300] National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act ?? [/glow]

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #340 –
Quote from: SmileyFaze on
This thread is devoted to Gun Control, & the Owning, Carrying, & the Using of Firearms by Ordinary Citizens.

Hey, you're the one that claims to be so devoted to the constitution. I'm just seeing if it's true. There are entirely too many fake constitutionalists and confuse that with going as far to the Right as possible on every issue (not to be confused with simply being a conservative, a center-right position.* 


Quote from: SmileyFaze on
What do you think about the National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act ??
Sounds good, eliminate us some red-tape and nonsense. I was just saying we need to make sure sure more people that buy guns are indeed legally eligible to do so, while acknowledging 100% doesn't exist for this sort of thing. You can't catch 100% of murderers, rapists, paedophiles, burglars,  etc but that doesn't mean to not have the law and some people able to easily purchase guns do fall into those categories. Press an app on your iPhone to reduce the probability of selling to one of them. By the 2nd amendment, they can't use that to arbitrarily confiscate your guns if you're legally eligible to have them; the only cause for concern is if that's not the case.

*Hear about TP Candidate David Esk that "wouldn't have a problem" with stoning gays to death and yet evidently considers himself libertarian? You know how to use a search engine, look him up.) One issue does not a constitutionalist/libertarian make. That was his stance after "clarifying" his position, which was originally even worse. 

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #341 –
I noticed an interesting news report on television that showed that a whole convoy os armed cars like used by soldiers is being sold to police forces all over the USA even though crime figures are meant to be down and some of these vehicles going to areas where really not needed. With all that SWAT stuff and looking more like damn soliders all the time things must be really bad in the land of nutjobs or is just another wheeze by corporates to get more money?   Equally being a place of gun mania it is maybe not surprising the police are startig to not look well, like police.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #342 –
It's more the corporates trying to get money, than actual need combined with fear of crime. Add to this mixture electoral politics when the mayor's up for reelection. The mayors can just see their opponents saying gibberish such as "The mayor turned down these armored cars! This puts YOUR children in danger..." 

I wonder how many of our nation's problems can be attributed to nasty electoral politics and parties trying to "energize their base." Right now, the Republicans can't stop running against Obama and get on the business of forging legislation for the good of the country, which means working with the opposition.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #343 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on
Right now, the Republicans can't stop running against Obama and get on the business of forging legislation for the good of the country, which means working with the opposition.

Because, Lord knows! We need more legislation… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #344 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on
Because, Lord knows! We need more legislation…


Depends on the type. Legislation can expand freedom, reduce it, or be freedom neutral.  The National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act that Smiley brought up is legislation. Legislation reducing funding for the NSA and reducing its domestic surveillance is still legislation. Legislation does not necessarily equate to more government, in fact it lead to less.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #345 –
How about legislation to reduce some of the legislation? We have laws still on the books that have long outlived their usefulness, but law being what it is it will take a law to repeal the old law.

In a rather ironic note, Smiley's rants against gun regulations clearly shows why we need gun regulations.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #346 –
Him and the NRA's winning hand is most Americans are in favor of 2nd Amendment rights, but they're overplaying it.

That's hardly a problem unique to them: some sexual and ethnic minorities get too thin-skinned if somebody says the wrong phrase (yesterday at work I noted Newports are popular among black people and got asked if I was a Klan member :rolleyes: My response was "well is it right?" and my accuser was forced to concede the point.)  Judges overturn anti-same sex marriage amendments and suddenly Christians are an oppressed minority and gay people are bullies. Some gay groups still contend 10% of the population is gay, which common sense tells you is bullshit. Every election both Democrats and Republicans trade away selling points to the general public to energize their bases, forgetting that in the information age the stupidity you say at your primary rallies and fund raisers doesn't go away in the general election (hence "Etch-A-Sketch"ing Romney failed miserably.)  Etc.

Perhaps I'm doing it now. What I just said has the potential to offend gays,Christians, African Americans, both parities ;)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #347 –
Then 'Coony, this should be right up yer ............. alley (pardon the pun )




Quote from:       http://pinkpistols.org/?q=node/4             
"Thirty-one states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

--Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

We did. There are now over 45 Pink Pistols chapters nationwide, and more are starting up every day. We are dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community. We no longer believe it is the right of those who hate and fear gay, lesbian, bi, trans, or polyamorous persons to use us as targets for their rage. Self-defense is our RIGHT........,.,.continued

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #348 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
How about legislation to reduce some of the legislation? We have laws still on the books that have long outlived their usefulness, but law being what it is it will take a law to repeal the old law.

I'm not sure if that's called a law? But yeah, the way changes are made in a law around these parts is by passing something that says "we'll scratch the words such and so from law bla section alb." Or of course simply something that says the entire thing will be repealed.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #349 –
Over two centuries and still arguing over that Constitution and  the mouse of it in modern times. The gun industry is just the same as the armaments and other money making money baron stuff. Kind of sad really and this thread subject went on and on in Opera and the nut job mentality has been carried on here too. It is time the Audie Murphy mentality grew up. It makes a farce of the country in the eyes of the world and is a contradiction amongst much else. A vast military and the same with police now with military stuff which makes the country look ridiculous. Who would want to copt this and help the corporates whilst the ordinary Joe struggles?
"Quit you like men:be strong"