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Poll

Should Ordinary Citizens be allowed to own, carry, & use Firearms to defend their own lives, & the lives of their family & friends?

Absolutely Yes!
I thinks so.
I don't think so.
Definitely No!
My name isn't String, so let me have a icy cold beer so I can ponder the options...
Topic: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms? (Read 331471 times)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1025
I'm Smiley's biggest fanboy.

I'm going with the AK47.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1026

String, I have bad news for you. "Armed" doesn't have to be with a gun. Your rapist could--probably does-- have a knife. Glasgow is crazy with knives, last I heard. Gangs who can't get guns do the next best thing and get knives. Failing that-- the rapist may have been drinking earlier and has a bottle--- which he breaks to use as a weapon. Ever been threatened by a thug with a broken bottle? Believe me, a young woman has a lot to lose when she's threatened by the thought of getting carved up like a Christmas turkey if she doesn't comply.

So---- don't even try to tell me that you don't have armed rapists. The stats say otherwise.

Actually I wasn't really making a serious comment, just poking fun at SF & Oak being so terrified at rapists hiding around each corner. A bit like the ubiquitous burglar, if you remember those discussions.

If anyone is slightly interested
This article gives a serious effort of trying to compare crime between the US & The UK


It's a long read, so if you're like me, you will read a bit of the first part but then skip through to the conclusions. Read them. But don't compolain to me, I didn't write it!

The fact is that both our countries should be ashamed of having so many violent people, whether rapists or not.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1027
The fact is that both our countries should be ashamed of having so many violent people, whether rapists or not.


No shame here.

I don't feel guilty that a portion of the Country's population is violently defective.

Nor should society.

It's the violent criminal, if anyone, who should shoulder any shame.

Society is not responsible for their wrongdoing.

It's the violent criminals that need to show personal responsibility for their actions, & should be held accountable.

We as a society should only make the resources available for those affected individuals to mend their ways either via self-help or court order.

But in the end we all have the Natural Right to Self-Defense, to protect our own lives, & all personal resources should be at the individuals disposal to choose on how to defend themselves & with what.

If government can't provide individual protection for it's citizens, & they obviously can't, they should step aside & keep out of the way while the individual takes personal responsibility for their own security & self-defense with whatever personal weapons they have at their disposal.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1028

I'm Smiley's biggest fanboy.

I'm going with the AK47.



   Father, forgive him for he knows not of what he's doing......

BTW.......   This           is a MP7, not a stockless  AK47

But, excellent choice either way (personally I prefer the MP7 myself for up close, & personal  :D

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjt62h56x-E[/VIDEO]

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1029
You lot mjsmsprt40 will do anything to get using a gun and that ridiculous stuff we get about police not being everywhere when needed. We don't have police all over the place but don't need lots of gun toting police to gun people down even when unarmed . You have never grown up as a country and misuse an 18th century document as an excuse to fire off. What a place so over the top on gun crime, killing 10,000 annually and every week somewhere the police gunning people down as an easy option. That you even have to have soldiers on the damn streets tells much too. Nutjobland again!

This thread started on Opera and is still going on and no doubt the Irish terrorist lover is enjoying this but it has dragged on too long and just going round in circles so i will let you cowboy minds rattle on with it as you might not be near a shop to buy a comic.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1030
that ridiculous stuff we get about police not being everywhere when needed
You apparently weren't one of the 1,400 minor girls that were sexually abused in Rotherham, a rather small town… (Larger "organizations" had similar statistics!) How nice for you!
Might I suggest you look to your own?
Nah! You don't really care…
no doubt the Irish terrorist lover is enjoying this but it has dragged on too long and just going round in circles
If he has roots or relatives still on the Emerald Isle, he likely has grievances a great list long, RJ.
You just have "prickles"… :)
so i will let you cowboy minds rattle on with it as you might
Can we trust your word? Will you avoid making a fool of yourself — in this thread!?

(I'm doubtful: You'd make a fool of yourself at any opportunity offered. It's what you do! Besides designing imaginary railways… :) )
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1031

that ridiculous stuff we get about police not being everywhere when needed
You apparently weren't one of the 1,400 minor girls that were sexually abused in Rotherham, a rather small town… (Larger "organizations" had similar statistics!) How nice for you!
Might I suggest you look to your own?
Nah! You don't really care…
no doubt the Irish terrorist lover is enjoying this but it has dragged on too long and just going round in circles
If he has roots or relatives still on the Emerald Isle, he likely has grievances a great list long, RJ.
You just have "prickles"… :)
so i will let you cowboy minds rattle on with it as you might
Can we trust your word? Will you avoid making a fool of yourself — in this thread!?

(I'm doubtful: You'd make a fool of yourself at any opportunity offered. It's what you do! Besides designing imaginary railways… :) )


Railways and guns. Hmmm... Never miss a chance to combine the two when you can. Note that this was primarily a European contrivance-- I don't know if the US deployed one of these things. The Germans did, I think maybe the French had a couple. I doubt that the UK had one, if they did they used it on the continent.

What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!



Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1034
Look at the eyes on that Navy guy!
He looks like something from a thirties horror film. I'd hate to see him given control over anything more powerful than a slingshot.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1035
[Move][glow=blue,2,300]

Open carry activists applaud Texas gun legi­slation                      Open carry activists applaud Texas gun legi­slation               Open carry activists applaud Texas gun legi­slation                   Open carry activists applaud Texas gun legi­slation                           Open carry activists applaud Texas gun legi­slation               Open carry activists applaud Texas gun legi­slation                   Open carry activists applaud Texas gun legi­slation                         Open carry activists applaud Texas gun legi­slation
[/glow][/Move]




[glow=green,2,300]Open Carry Texas members celebrate new law [/glow]



SAN ANTONIO - With Texas set to legalize the open carry of all firearms, those who have been campaigning for the legislation are celebrating.

Texas lawmakers approved the licensed open carry of handguns Friday. The bill is now on its way to Gov. Greg Abbott, who is expected to sign it.

Open Carry Texas has been pushing for the new law and gun rights in general. Several of its members were walking the streets of downtown San Antonio Sunday, rifles in tow, to celebrate Friday's bill passing and promote further gun rights legislation.

"What we would like is a constitutional carry, where you don't need a license to carry a firearm," said John Valchar, with Open Carry Texas.

The state of Texas has long allowed the open carry of rifles and shotguns, but is one of six states that does not currently allow the open carry of handguns.

Some opponents of the legislation say it would cause fear and would serve no real purpose.

The new law would also recognize non-Texas concealed handgun license holders to openly carry their weapons in public.


       Way to go TEXAS!




Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1036
Talking of railways and guns, well how about this for a Railgun.
There's a noticeable difference between government and individual efforts at self-defense…
(I'm for individual self-defense. I'd like my country to defend itself, too. But not at the expense of its population's rights… That is: We -the people- will fight if we have to; we don't need to be protected from everything.)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1037
Dear, oh dear, mjsmpsrt40. The resident terrorist has long grievances on the Emerald Isle? I have grievances to about the Americans who funded them. That lot of killers even murdered people from their own community and when you look into the past it is not as one-sided as you muse from a distance.

Anyway for a would-be democracy going bananas on guns suggests a very deep and flawed fundamental national weakness.  Gives a very simple impression that legal is tolerated only when you cannot get shooting. Why isn't the rest of the reasonable world not like you? Says something.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1038
Quote from: OakdaleFTL
We -the people- will fight if we have to; we don't need to be protected from everything.)
Just yourselves apparently.

@ SF - I see you are still misquoting the something or other amendment.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1039
We -the people- will fight if we have to; we don't need to be protected from everything.

I'm assuming that you aren't referring to Oakdale FTL but to some other poor bastard.
Have a Oak. I'm sure that's something you do well.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1040
Nope, Jimbro… I don't "do" small beers! Too much work… I like 40s. :) (I admit it's a vice — but I have so few others left.)
But have no fears: I don't own a firearm… (Don't like loud noises!) I haven't fired a handgun in almost 35 years, and I've no hankering to do so. (The amount of training it would take, to make a sot proficient and effective, with such a weapon would exhaust me.)
Yet I don't fear guns the way some others do. I've faced them, and survived — because the "wielder of the weapon" wasn't one of Howie's Wild West cowboys. (Had the circumstances been different -say, an inner-city confrontation in an unfamiliar neighborhood at night… Then, I might have reacted differently.) I know this is a tough pill to swallow, but most people are (mostly) sane.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1041
This should make your day.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1042
Naaaahhhh, Charles Bronson was so, so much better.   An equal opportunity vigilante.  A real Role-Model! 

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUHgz8KOzyM[/VIDEO]

 

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1043


Being held for a year or more for trial? The usual response is "so, what, its them not us, they're probably guilty anyway."
To clarify and give a concrete example:
Quote
A Bronx man who spent three years as a teen in Rikers Island enduring beatings by guards and inmates and long stints in solitary confinement without ever being convicted has committed suicide.
...
In May 2010, cops arrested Browder on Arthur Ave. in the Bronx after a teen accused him of robbing him of his backpack.

His family was unable to raise his $10,000 bail, so Browder remained locked up in Rikers awaiting trial.

He was offered a plea deal after 33 months, which he refused. As months turned into years, the stress got to Browder and he attempted suicide several times.

Browder spent more than 400 days in solitary confinement.

He was released from Rikers in May 2013 when charges were dropped.

In April, shocking Rikers security footage from September 2012 surfaced showing a correction officer slamming Browder to a cellblock floor and pummeling him. Other footage from 2010, showed Browder being beaten by 10 teen inmates in a wild brawl.

After getting out of jail, Browder enrolled Bronx Community College, but, haunted by his experience at Rikers, suffered bouts with depression that triggered other suicide attempts and a stay at the psych ward at Harlem Hospital.
There are many cases of those held for years awaiting trial due to excessive bail. The constitutional prohibition against excessive bail and for speedy trials is no help to them.

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1044
[glow=blue,2,300]NRA Scores Victory in Wisconsin with Passage of SB 35, Repealing 48-hour Waiting Period [/glow]



Quote from:      NRA-ILA    http://bit.ly/1HsEqew    


Fairfax, Va. – The National Rifle Association scored another victory for gun rights today when the Wisconsin Assembly passed NRA-backed legislation eliminating a 48-hour waiting period on all point-of-sale handgun purchases in the state. Senate Bill (SB) 35 passed by a voice vote and is headed to the Governor Scott Walker's desk where it is expected to be signed into law.

"This important measure marks the end of an antiquated law that's served as nothing but a needless burden on law-abiding gun owners in the Badger state," said Chris W. Cox, executive director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. "We applaud the state legislature for making the preservation of Second Amendment rights a priority."

Senate Bill 35 repeals a 1979 law enacted to allow time for background checks, and to create a so-called "cooling off" period for someone intent on committing a crime.  Today, background checks can be completed while a customer is still in the store, and statistics routinely show waiting periods have no impact on homicide rates. In fact, studies show crime rates are higher in states with a waiting period than in those without...................continued



What do you think?     



Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1045
I wonder if you really want to know what I think.

But since you asked: I think Smiley is at least as far out in never-land on one side of this issue as RJH is on the other.

Maybe there's some sanity somewhere in the middle. Then again, maybe not.

The "cooling off period" wouldn't stop a hardened criminal. But, just maybe it slow down a person who was acting in the heat of anger. Give a person time to think. A couple of days isn't going to matter to a person wanting to buy a hunting rifle, probably won't matter to legit handgun purchases. But it just might give that angry person time to think about something other than rubbing out the person he/she is angry against.

To be sure, in 2015 we can certainly do a criminal background check and just maybe find out if you've been convicted of a crime or spent time under a doctor's care for mental illness, and get the results within seconds of clicking "submit". But- how does that stop the road-rager who decides to buy a gun to use that very hour against somebody he's upset with? The waiting time just might give him time to stop and think. Then again, maybe not--- some people are just plain crackers-- but what else have you got to work with?
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1046
…I think I begin to understand why various federal agencies have been buying up bullets: As yet, only a few "nuts" recognize them as enemies… Besides themselves, I mean! :) (Tongue-in-cheek, y'all! Maybe.)

I still don't understand why it's so difficult to see that the original intent (for John Kerry: the raison d'être…) of the Second Amendment was simply to obviate an easy descent into tyranny.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1047
but what else have you got to work with?
Moral instruction… Community… A commitment to liberty… Restraint, from government…
You could extend the list yourself, mjm.

Smiley does come across as a cartoon! (I likely do too.) But: Would you be afraid, seeing him near you with a hand-gun or rifle? I confess, I wouldn't. His rhetoric is partly due to his history (…experience does count!) but is also in response to the excesses of the anti-gun political forces.
The federal Assault Weapons Ban banned "scary"-looking guns… And had no effect upon gun crimes, gun accidents, gun violence; whatever! But it made some people feel "safer" — while at the same time making some political forces feel "triumphant"…

Before you think the government should -at its discretion- lobotomize any or all of us, read Elliot Baker's A Fine Madness:)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1048

I wonder if you really want to know what I think.

But since you asked: I think Smiley is at least as far out in never-land on one side of this issue as RJH is on the other.

Maybe there's some sanity somewhere in the middle. Then again, maybe not.

The "cooling off period" wouldn't stop a hardened criminal. But, just maybe it slow down a person who was acting in the heat of anger. Give a person time to think. A couple of days isn't going to matter to a person wanting to buy a hunting rifle, probably won't matter to legit handgun purchases. But it just might give that angry person time to think about something other than rubbing out the person he/she is angry against.

To be sure, in 2015 we can certainly do a criminal background check and just maybe find out if you've been convicted of a crime or spent time under a doctor's care for mental illness, and get the results within seconds of clicking "submit". But- how does that stop the road-rager who decides to buy a gun to use that very hour against somebody he's upset with? The waiting time just might give him time to stop and think. Then again, maybe not--- some people are just plain crackers-- but what else have you got to work with?


I always appreciate your input Mike, so please feel comfortable within your own skin when being honest, as you usually are here.

Whether you agree with my positions or not is the primary reason I almost always ask   "What do you think?" 

Even though I may say the contrary, I am usually even fascinated with what RJ thinks, & I gladly anticipate his retort, predictable as it might be.

That said, in theory the "48 hour cooling off period" sounded plausible, & if the "Cooling Off Period" had proven itself to work in vastly lessening violent/deadly activity then we wouldn't have much to disagree about here.
Unfortunately, there is little, if any, evidence that it affects outcomes as hopefully intended, or makes any difference to outcomes in states that have waiting periods as opposed to states where there are no waiting periods. Therefore, regardless of how logical it might 'sound' that it should pay enormous dividends, it's just another law that was well intentioned, but in effect, is & was unnecessary.




........ Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr., who favors gun rights, said Tuesday that the vote allowed the law to catch up with technology.

"Background checks can now be accomplished in hours instead of days. Why delay a law-abiding citizen the right to exercise their Second Amendment right to purchase a handgun?" Clarke said.

But echoing Harris-Dodd, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett said the benefits of technology should justify expanding background checks and not just ending the waiting period...........continued


There is also a safety valve provided for in this new law.

The Justice Department has within it's power to lengthen any background approval process for up 5 days in the event that it becomes necessary on questionable purchases.
Quote

The bill would give the Department of Justice up to five days to complete its background checks, keeping the maximum amount of time for the checks in line with current law.



Re: Gun Control - Should Ordinary Citizens Own, Carry, & Use Firearms?

Reply #1049

I have grievances

Glad to see we're airing our grievances. I'm quite irked at your lot for having such a high damn duty on Johnny Walker products.  :furious: