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Topic: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga (Read 347787 times)

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1700
A "successful" Trump presidency is one where he would be prevented from doing too much harm. Will that happen? Who knows, we'll see. But the actions will beget reactions, and while postponed for now, demographics is ruthless. If you had trouble with a conservative candidate like Clinton, you might not like what's coming to you.

I don't think a double-term Trump is impossible, but it would come at the cost of thrice the stress to the Republican party. I am not sure it will survive either case. For the party the best outcome would be a crazier-than-thou Democratic candidate, thus a crazy "Republican" followed by a crazy Democrat, bad for the country, but better for the party. The Republican Trump will not be forgotten easily. 

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1701
Of course, you'll be moving to Canada (...not Mexico!).
If the Canadian immigration website stays down too long, I'm sure he will consider Mexico.

But -seriously- don't you hope a Trump presidency will be successful?
Trump's success as the president completely depends on how capably he will be moderated. Foreign policy should be easy - he has none, so the establishment simply has to feed him the standard foreign policy. The hard part will be preventing him to treat the country as if it were his private business ("not paying taxes makes me smart").

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1702
Now Trump has talked some sensible things, such rebuilding infrastructure. Now I'm going to pull a Howie and note that a panelist on NBC noted that congressional Republicans will block the funds. What if he actually has a sensible plan under all his idiotic rhetoric, Trump's problem could be ultimately turn out to the Republicans, not the Democrats.

But let's assume Trump actually meant all the stupid crap he said this whole, Andrew Sullivan notes at least one of the founding fathers saw something like this coming.

Quote from: George Washington via Andrew Sullivan
The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.

...

Quote from: Andrew Sullivan
That was George Washington’s Farewell Address.

A country designed to resist tyranny has now embraced it. A constitution designed to prevent democracy taking over everything has now succumbed to it. A country once defined by self-government has openly, clearly, enthusiastically delivered its fate into the hands of one man to do as he sees fit. After 240 years, an idea that once inspired the world has finally repealed itself. We the people did it.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1703
It is an interesting choice, one which both candidates agreed on, and to which there's even a thread.

There are significant differences though.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1704
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/trackers/2016-11-07/u-s-vote-preview-infrastructure-may-win-under-clinton-or-trump

Quote
Trump wants to spend $1t on infrastructure relying on private funding, taxes collected from workers; participating companies would offset costs, advisers Peter Navarro and Wilbur Ross said in an Oct. 27 statement
That's not gonna happen and if it did, that looks like a big tax increase on workers. Hillary's USD 275B still expensive, but would been a little more doable.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1705
the count is final ? or pre count ?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1706
Yup, final!
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1707
well, that's interesting .

republican win everything .

presidency, senate and the house .

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1708
Yup, final!
Making the second time in four presidential elections the Democrats lost, despite winning the popular vote. As I'm sure Oakdale knows, but I'm not sure our European friends do, Hillary actually got more votes than Fuckface Assclown Trump.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1709
Everyone knows. What might not be known is that those who defend it say that electors are what makes the US "a republic, not a democracy" (you probably know how silly I find that mantra). That defense might make sense to in light of the fact that the number of electors remains the same regardless how many people turn out to vote but doesn't seem to have much to do with winner takes all.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1710
If electors have a meaning, then people's vote is just a joke. If people's vote has a meaning, then electors are pointless.

Electors are probably meant to serve as a statehood-affirming veneer between the population and the federal govt. If such a veneer is deemed really necessary for republicity (that seems to be the idea in the constitution), it's silly to make people vote for the president, as if popular vote counted in some way.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1711
I see no point in 100% of a State supporting the candidate that is supported by 50.01% of its citizens.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1712
I see no point in 100% of a State supporting the candidate that is supported by 50.01% of its citizens.
Me neither. Only proportional voting is fair (or good old casting a lot or rotation). But US constitution was negotiated between Puritans, Anglicans, and some alleged Masonic deists. Fairness didn't even occur to them.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1713
"I see no point in 100% of a State supporting the candidate that is supported by 50.01% of its citizens."
What does that mean?

Clinton had more individual votes than Trump did. He won because he had more electoral votes.

Don't ask me...I've only been living here for 80 years.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1714
Fair? :) We have 50 states and, although federalism has been whittled away at considerably for over a hundred years, the individual states still have distinct interests.
Originally, the main divide was over slavery… (You know how that turned out.)
Nowadays, the main divide is between rural and urban areas.
The electoral college was a compromise meant to keep our union. On December 19th they'll officially conclude the election of our 45th president…
The out-going president, the Democrat contender and the (ostensible) Republican winner seem to be behaving as adults.
Will the general populace?

The electoral college is still contentious, among those whose candidate lost:)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1715
No the College stuff is a nonsense. Democracy?

Clinton for all her experience got roughly over half the votes and slightly more than Trump. The moans about a non-politician standing and winning were a moan from the democrats but let us look back and remember that President Eisenhower was not a politician either so I see nothing wrong in such a corner. At the same time in power Donald trump will have to take principled note that his side have the Presidency the two Houses so there has to be some consideration given as the country is kind of split down the middle is it not?

I took the view earlier that Trump was more of a kind of populist than a routine Republican and that party did have a problem when you remember the whole squad of contenders and it was non-political experienced trump who won that side. Some people are going on about the email fiasco (even though they were not all checked and couldn't be in the time slot) because lots of people got voting early (odd?) and are being labelled many of them going for Trump because of that investigation. However many stable political minds were not keen on Clinton because for all her experience they did not genuinely trust her . Many would cast her vote because Trump was seen as a question mark.

Donald Trump got much support from those on the lower ranks who are not automatically trolls and have been on the back burner for ages from both Democrats and Republicans so now he will be in power he needs time to show what he can do. The protesters need to go home as the election is over and they lost. Obama's time was not all that perfect and he did have a problem due to the power on the other side on the Hill so now one side technically will be in charge of everything. republicans who didn't support Trump will have to adapt to a populist and see how he fares. On foreign affairs some kind of relationship with Russia is important rather than all the stupid media stuff and made up nonsense. Clinton was unbelievingly stupid going on about foreign influence on voting. The losers have to accept defeat and stop moaning just because they lost.

Both parties which is all you are stuck with over there have to look at themselves and give third new leader a chance and also to get their own houses in order for the millions of Americans who genuinely don't trust DC or what has been going on for too long.

Go to it.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

 

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1716

"Outside a pub in Clerkenwell, England."



Mission accomplished

https://youtu.be/fwLbDGX4qbk

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1717
That's a sign of genius! :lol:

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1718
Well the video is in even it's satirical touch a bit of rubbish. A good turnout for the Brexit situ and favoured by sensible British folk.  And the economy has NOT collapsed. Incidents were not as they have been in the ex-colonies. Youngsters from reasonable backgrounds going bananas over losing, looting shops, fighting the police and so on yet they like to bum about the system and democracy? Two hundred and thirty odd years and it still hasn't grown up so what a wise shop keeper ( giggle).  :D
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1719
Oldsters, too! Harry Reid recently said "The election of Donald Trump has emboldened the forces of hate and bigotry in America."

The "forces of hate and bigotry"? Hereabouts, we just call them Progressives! :)

As far as "real" conservatives go, Borowitz tells us something!
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)


Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1721
What a damnable far4ce the otcome of that eection has been. People especially younger types out protesting and saying all sorts of immature and  midget mind rubbish.  One news item has informed us that there are people trying to offer counselling to college students and school attenders who have gone bonkers. Oakdale you are always gaffing about other countries being soft in the head, dopey and so on so how about this then, eh?? Demanding the Election College thing be scrapped (didn't see them protesting about that before the election!). Shouting that trump is not their President and a bunch of mentally immature midget brains. Wailing and decrying the country when they were boasting about how democratic things were before the result. Someone should tell all those idiots they had an election and one side wins and the other loses. What makes it more ludicrous it is in cities right across the country and makes the place look stupid. Counsellors for them? What a load of nonsense. Not surprised a wee while back there was a government problem with education standards.

If they are the future you folk have a very deep problem what with mass wailings, cursing and demanding reform because their side lost? The same lot seem to think because they were whooping and waving at the election that makes them A1. For heavens sake they are making the place look stupid and in the report suggesting that counselling nonsense it also mentioned some suggesting they should be cuddled as well. Damnable immaturity and even thought young adults a bunch of mental pansies. It makes the country look a head-shaking groan thing for the watching world. They are not a very good advert and many intelligent people will be sighing in embarrassment. Someone tell them slowly they had a democratic election and they lost - oh and give the poor mental midgets  handkerchiefs.  :mad:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1722
Very well, now a looong series of gaffes and ridicule will follow until someone (probably many ones) decides that mr Trump is no longer welcome to the US interests. I think it will take last than four years to changes to happen.
I suspect his portrait in the future will be no part of the American President series.
A matter of attitude.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1723
I think it will take last than four years to changes to happen.
It might depend on the outcome of his trials. I wonder how well the Trump supporters chanting "crooked Hillary" and "lock her up!" actually looked at their man. His legal problems don't go away , just because he was elected.   The Independent notes that it appears possible for a president to be impeach for issues that arose prior to taking office.

Article II Section IV of the Constitution states:

Quote
The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Note, it doesn't exactly say that he has to be in office while committing the crimes.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #1724
With all due respect to Prof. Peterson, impeachment is a political action… Anyone salivating for Trump's removal will have to wait for the Democrats to retake the House and Senate.

Referring back to the Electoral College: As I've said elsewhere, the question is simple. It's an American institution — like baseball! So, who wins a baseball game, the team with the most hits or the team with the most runs? :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)