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Topic: The Russians are coming (Read 26898 times)

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #50 –
On a more or less unrelated note:

Media you can/should trust.
Several German online portals like "ZDFheute", "Focus Online", "Tagesspiegel.de" or "Zeit Online" have presented recently, Russian tanks entering Ukrainian territory. Their source was as usual, probably the military leadership from Kiev.
As proof they also showed a photo. The funny thing is that the same photo was already presented in 2009, during the Georgian conflict.



The same old photo you can also see here, published 2009.05.06. :)

Now "ZDFheute" has removed that old photo and replaced it with a newer one made on Russian territory.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #51 –
What shows the Russians and the separatists is Kieve propaganda? The rebels did break the ceasefire and said "of course we did...."

Funny thing, though. On Huete.de I find a different image ;)



So how do we know that photo wasn't published there in 2009? Oh yes, the site identifies those tanks as Ukrainian. Can you provide a direct link to the article, instead of a photo that for all we know could have come from a blogger that's lying/misinformed himself? I did a search like this but it seems non of the articles have the photo in question, at least not in their thumbnails. The articles are conventionally found in chronological order :yes:

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #53 –
Would it surprise anybody that both sides are probably ladling on the propaganda thick and heavy, with photos to show the enemy in as bad a light as possible?

Today we live in the age of Photoshop, as well. Seeing is deceiving.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #54 –
You don't know any more than I do Sanguinemoon who did the minor breaks on the latest cease-fire. May I also inform you dear brained that nether side has removed all the heavy stuff. How do you think you are giving a balanced summary when you totally ignore the leader of the Right Sector making that public statement that they have no intention of stopping shooting. Instead you give a childish not even sensible reply. I will give mJsmsprt40 a more POSITIVE (!) in that he feels both sides are as eachy-peach. That you ignore a party that is ne-Nazi has ministers in the Kiev "government" and says it will not stop fighting shows a degree of mental incapability on your part. So far the breaks in the cease-fire have been minor but you again totally ignored the hard fact that at the last one it was the Ukrainian Army that mounted a large attack on the airport. But there again any information that does not suit your closed mind and bigotry is just bypassed.

As for the Ukrainian Army it isn't really much of a thing at all. That America is considering the possibility of "just defence weapons" is another insult to intelligence. Guns of any description, kill. Russia having played a full part in the international negations is still being ill treated and beyond comprehension. The so-called government in Kiev and emphasised by a Prime Minister who is full of spite, hate and stupidity is no help.  And how did Ykriane get through the typical freezing winter> Well thanks to Russia!

"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #55 –
Quote from: krake on
Here you go sir: http://www.heute.de/liveblog-zum-ukraine-gipfel-in-minsk-ringen-um-frieden-fuer-die-ukraine-37145464.html
Copy the text below the new image and make a test for GoogleTranslate.
Good luck.

The image is

But they admit the wrong picture was used before.
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Today we live in the age of Photoshop, as well. Seeing is deceiving.

We also live in the age of the 24 hour news cycle, meaning there's sloppy reporting and grabbing the wrong photo just to be the first to break a story. Fox News had be been notorious for incorrectly labeling countries and making other mistakes even on politically neutral stories.
Quote from: rjhowie on
How do you think you are giving a balanced summary when you totally ignore the leader of the Right Sector making that public statement that they have no intention of stopping shooting.

The Right Sector is not the Ukrainian government, Howie. :p It's not hard to find articles detailing how they clash with the Ukrainian police.In other words, he's was still just a random idiot with no government authority and you still refuse to reveal the source.  What you're doing would the equivalent of quoting a member of the British National Party while refusing to give any source and saying he represents the Scottish government.
Quote from: rjhowie on
May I also inform you dear brained that nether side has removed all the heavy stuff.

How can the Ukrainian army remove its "heavy stuff" while being fired on by separatists,  who admit to breaking the ceasefire.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #56 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Russia having played a full part in the international negations is still being ill treated and beyond comprehension.

Because they're the ones the supplies the separatists and stoked the fires of war in the first place. Putin has shown time and time again that he's not to be trusted.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #57 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

Quote from: rjhowie on
Russia having played a full part in the international negations is still being ill treated and beyond comprehension.

Because they're the ones the supplies the separatists and stoked the fires of war in the first place. Putin has shown time and time again that he's not to be trusted.

Good luck with that one, sir. Mr. Howie is a Putin supporter.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #58 –
I imagine that Mr. Chamberlain would have believed Mr. Putin.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #60 –
OK. So, as I understand this, we're all "brained" because we don't accept RJHowie's explanation of events wholesale. Hmmmm....
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #61 –
I was able to find this at a slang site, but don't think that's what Rj means. :o

fellatio.
I asked this girl to give me some brain and she said that she doesn't do that.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #62 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on


But they admit the wrong picture was used before.


LOL
They had no other choice after being caught.
The last drop of credibility is on stake.

BTW, more about it in English, so you don't have to stress GoogleTranslate.
You won't like the source but that's not my problem.
However it is as trustworthy as US or German media are. In some cases like this one, it's even better.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #63 –
Photos. Gotta love 'em.
Seeing is deceiving, especially when someone wants to make you believe something that just ain't so, but needs to back it up with photographic proof.

Yep, I'm "The Man of Steel" and here's the photo to back up my claim:

What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #64 –
Quote from: krake on
LOL
They had no other choice after being caught.
The last drop of credibility is on stake.

That's one site in German, little used outside Germany out of how many thousands and it used the wrong picture. Must likely an editorial error, which I tried to point out to you do happen.

Watch this video It notes the sophisticated Russian weaponry that  separatists magically acquired without Russia giving it to them. BUT note its criticism of the Ukrainian president trying to spin the battle his way despite a clear defeat and it's criticism of the effectiveness of the Ukrainian military. What's the moral? Western media is not Kiev propaganda and is as quick to criticize it as the Kremlin and separatists. This silly idea the Western media only repeats propaganda is propaganda itself. 

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #65 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Yep, I'm "The Man of Steel" and here's the photo to back up my claim

What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?

Nothing! Our own Man of Steel would catch it and send it back where it came from. Super Michael will save the day.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #66 –
Krake and Howie, please check Ersi's post if you haven't already. One erroneous photo doesn't change anything. 

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #67 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

One erroneous photo doesn't change anything.

Even a hundred thousand erroneous photos won't change anything. It's a standard these days to grab a random photo to go along with the text. Of course it would be nice to be aware of it when publishing and honestly state "this photo is here just for generic illustrative purposes". Soviet Union was a great propaganda school that taught me to always consider pictures separately from the text.

What matters is if the text is worth to be taken seriously. If the text is not disputed, then the facts stand as stated.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #68 –
To be honest, I usually don't give a rat's flea infested ass about the photo. The content of the article is what matters. It wouldn't be surprising if the explanation is that some intern was asked to find a photo of a Russian tank and grabbed the wrong one.

If Fox makes a mistake the liberals get a good lol about about; if MSNBC makes one the conservatives do the same and life goes on. Heute fucked up with the picture, life goes on. It's obvious to most of us that doesn't make everything Fox, MSNBC or Heute says wrong.

I wonder if the pro-Putin side an find any evidence of America meddling in the region or just go to great lengths to deny Russian involvement. Or in Howie's case, go on a random diatribe about America.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #69 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on
To be honest, I usually don't give a rat's flea infested ass about the photo. The content of the article is what matters. It wouldn't be surprising if the explanation is that some intern was asked to find a photo of a Russian tank and grabbed the wrong one.

Note that the problem is that they showed a picture of Georgian tanks as an illustration of Russian tanks, not that it was an old picture. Only an ignoramus would think that the caption saying "In the night […] about 40 rocket launchers and tanks went by [some checkpoint], says Ukrainian army PR person" would show a picture of the actual tanks in question.

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #70 –
Kind of funny in a way saying that Russia cannot be trusted - and America can? You either have a lot to learn Sanguinemoon or you just accept everything dished out on your controlled media. Unfortunately mjsmsprt40 you might well be a man of steel as the me of steel from over there have been corporate minded so superman principles go out the window.

All the rancid lies about the Baltic States being under threat originated from Kiev the supplier of false photographs to the media. Kiev knows this will encourage America and the West and excuse to move NATO closer to Russia and that is damn stupid. The greatest political Satin is not going to control Russia financially or any other way and about time someone stood up to the arch-hypocrisy of a badly run country victimising the bear. Ukraine is where they have Nazi parades every year to remember their own who fought for the SS, etc during WW2 and who did some evil work during that event. They even have a monument to the evil git. Ukraines is a deeply divided country  and has always had internal ethnic groups of one sort or another. That the West sees it more something to support a Kiev government with Nazis in it says much. I have yet to see on this thread any condemnation of the Right Sector leader who steadfastly spoke publicly about totally ignoring any cease-fire. Why is this?

Like before it will be body-swerved and replaced by gobbledygook.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #71 –
Controlled media, Howie? So where do you get your info? Probably RT, which is funded by the Russian government :p As far as the picture itself, Heute already had it in their archives and a mistake was made matching it with the article. Again, though, the content of the article is what matters and not the picture.

Do tell us, Howie, what the seperatists are doing with new Russia weaponry. Here's the run down on separatist weaponry A lot of it is Soviet era leftovers and could have been seized from government forces, but some of it could have only been supplied by Russia and was never in use by Ukraine. An example of this are some tanks:

Quote
However, the separatists have also used Russian tanks that are not known to have ever been exported outside of the country such as the T-72B and T-72BA. Notably, the separatists have also deployed the T-72B3, the latest T-72 model in the Russian service. The tank is not known to have been exported and it was just introduced into service in 2013 indicating Russian involvement in the crisis.

Do you get it yet, Howie? There are only two possibilities: 1) Russia gave the seperatists those tanks. Or the more plausible explanation is that Russian troops were operating the tanks, since you just don't give away new tanks to a bunch of rebels.


Infantry Fighting Vehicles And Armored Personnel Carriers

Quote
Strikingly, separatists have also been documented driving the BTR-82AM IFV. This model was inducted into Russian service in 2013 and is not known to have ever been exported.

That's right, Howie. Personnel carriers that could have ONLY come from Russia or were, in fact, operated by the Russian military.

Self-Propelled Air Defense Systems: In general, the separatists used systems that could have been used from Ukraine, but not exclusively. An example of this is the Russia Pantsir-S1.  Were did the separatists get them, if not from Russia?

There are other weapons such the Russian VSS designated marksman rifle.

What's you're answer, Howie and Krake? The rebels do have sophisticated weapons that could have only come from one place. Some rant about America's less stellar actions won't change that nor will it change the fact the some of the weapons (the tanks especially) are most likely operated by Russian forces. None of this is hard to understand once you put done the RT (again, Howie that's quite literally state controlled media. I have to repeat myself for you since you have the attention span of a retarded kitten with ADHD.)

Also note the brilliance of Russia exporting the Kornet anti-tank weapon to Gaza. That's brilliant, isn't it?

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #72 –
There is nothing new under the sun. During the Korean war, it is now known that Russian pilots were flying MiGs over Korean airspace. Probably for the same reason Sang mentions about rebels and Russian tanks--- you don't hand the keys of the latest greatest hottest jet in the air to potential future enemies. Or to inexperienced pilots.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #73 –
Firstly the "pictures of the Russian invasion."

The pictures were supplied by Kiev MP's and what did the West do? Lap them up like kids with sweets. Must have been quite a disappointment to find they were as far back as 2008 and somewhere else altogether, haha. When this fracas started the rebels too much of the Kiev army and good luck to them. Your clown in the White House has been mouthing off at the sovereignty of a country being disrespected! Eh? The head of a country that send drones into countries without permission when it suits? Destabilises countries that don't knuckle to US and it's commercial/military empire. The other day a Kiev minister was asked directly by German interviewers think it was about the Right Sector involvement. And what do you know Sansguinemoon he admitted they were in the fight! Not only that bu worked under Ukrainian Army control. Now how can that be when the Right Sector has publicly said with some venom it does not recognise the cease-fire?! You like most of the simple minds over the pond just ignore what you do not want to hear so come on now admit the Right Sector is wrong and that they should not be in the government at Kiev.

I said that there were Russian volunteers in East Ukraine and many Cossacks who are not army but a tradition in their own right. Kiev comes out with lie after lie and you just believe them because like the routine American you were brought up to have Russia as an enemy no matter what. So i say there are volunteers there but you repeatedly ignore what I say about the Right Sector and that Kiev governemnt has welcomed the nazis into the fight?! Instead of a federal country that Kiev did not want I reckon that the east will end up being separated and it is the fault of the West not the Russians. Add to this is the hard fact that much of the heavy industry is in the East and the stupidity of Kiev means they will now lose all of that. So as you see Kiev as sainthood and that it appreciates the suppirt of Nazis then I have to say you are in the same corner and shame on you.

On a passing general note it is laughable for Americans bleating about Russian Air force and Korea. That coming from a nation that did that very thing over Russia for years until a U" got shot down! There is an odd morality with you Sanguinemoon with you and Russia but supprting a regime that is happy to have Nazis in it's battling and yet the Kiev government says it is in control of the RS even though the Sector tells us something else! In some pictures they have neo-Nazi symbols and one they actually have a large swastika! Well done Kiev for your broad base.

Russia has never wanted to take in the East and has SAID so but it wanted to keep a close traditional linkl  having so many Russian speakers there.  In the West they actually have a memorial to their Nazi leaderr during WW2 and have Nazi parades to commemorate them so wise up because they are treating you like fools and you are great example of that!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russians are coming

Reply #74 –
Can you stop bullshiting about the Right Sector, Howie? Eve the RT now has stories about them threatening the Ukrainian government. Kiev did not
Quote from: rjhowie on
Not only that bu worked under Ukrainian Army control.

The Right Sector refuses to obey the Ukrainian government, you do know this right?

Strawmen burn easily, Howie. I challenge to learn something for once in your life. Despite my link to RT for illustrative purposes, put down that Russian government ragsheet, for the love of God. It takes ten seconds and Google to learn that the Right Sector is a much (if not more so) of a problem for Kiev as it is for the seperatists and Russia.