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Topic: Paranormal - normal or para? (Read 23852 times)

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #50 –
there is no mind-reading .

there is only correography .

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #51 –
btw , have you tried to smell the color 9 ?

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #52 –
Why have none of these witches claimed the James Randi Education Foundation's million dollar challenge offering a prize US$1,000,000 to anyone who can demonstrate evidence of any paranormal, supernatural or occult power or event, under test conditions agreed to by both parties.  Anyone possessing a genuine paranormal ability should easily be able to reach an agreement on the test criteria with James Randi. No one has ever been able to claim the award, so no one posses any provable paranormal ability. Period.

People are drawn to the paranormal because they have paranormal experiences--as defined by paranormalists.  These experiences are inexplicable at a particular moment in time, but why would one choose to leap to the metaphysical for a reasonable explanation?  It is not rational to do so, at least not in today's world.  Remember that just because you don't know of a reasonable explanation to something doesn't mean that there isn't one. Ersi, you are looking at an event and data that not even you can verify, test or repeat, so why ask us to debunk this event?  Apparently you are so taken by this man Stevenson, that you believe he is beyond reproach...or is it simply that he believes in the same thing you do?  (Much more likely.)

Your terms, 'reincarnation', 'rebirth' or 'afterlife' should be dismissed out of hand because those terms arose at a time when people were highly superstitious, scientifically unaware and simply gave them a relieving and satisfactory explanation for what they could not understand or have knowledge of at that time.  Those terms have been carried over to today by those who have a need to believe in them--you are such a person.  You have ulterior motives for your beliefs and as such, they are inadmissible here based on personal bias.  So many other beliefs (paranormal, occult, UFO, Loch Ness or otherwise), have been debunked as time and science marches on, that it sets a precedent for all such beliefs as being unreasonable--even irrational, if you will.  You could do so much better if you put such foolish things aside.    :knight:  :cheers:
James J

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #53 –
Quote from: Sparta on

there is no mind-reading .

Indeed, the more appropriate term for the video is clairvoyance. But what would you care of these distinctions that go over your head :)

I have heard people say "there is no meaning (as such, at all)". If this statement is supposed to have a meaning, then it's self-refuting. If this statement is supposed to have no meaning, then it matters as little as any other meaningless statement.

Quote from: jseaton2311 on

Why have none of these witches claimed the James Randi Education Foundation's million dollar challenge offering a prize US$1,000,000 to anyone who can demonstrate evidence of any paranormal, supernatural or occult power or event, under test conditions agreed to by both parties.  Anyone possessing a genuine paranormal ability should easily be able to reach an agreement on the test criteria with James Randi. No one has ever been able to claim the award, so no one posses any provable paranormal ability. Period.

Not sure if the test conditions really are agreed on by both parties. Randi has been able to attract only shameless cranks thus far so probably he has a filtering system that deters any real paranormalists. What if he forbids rituals, for example? What do you know about the conditions he has?

Money is the root of evil in the world of paranormal. Even black magicians acknowledge this. Black magicians may work for fame/vanity (which is also forbidden by more rigorous understanding of esoteric ethics), but they have a strict attitude about money. The fact that Randi's challenge is about his dollars is enough to deter all witches of the sort that step up in the Battle of the Witches. They all say they are there to popularise their art and to "help people". You may be skeptical about what they do, but their ethical attitude is not a mere posture. Doubt this and it's evident that you fundamentally misunderstand what drives them.

Quote from: jseaton2311 on

People are drawn to the paranormal because they have paranormal experiences--as defined by paranormalists.  These experiences are inexplicable at a particular moment in time, but why would one choose to leap to the metaphysical for a reasonable explanation?  It is not rational to do so, at least not in today's world.  Remember that just because you don't know of a reasonable explanation to something doesn't mean that there isn't one.

Remember that you don't have an explanation precisely because you are looking at the wrong place for the answers. I don't have this problem. I have the explanation and I don't need to worry about looking for any "rational" explanation as defined by irrationalists.

Empiricism and rationalism are different things, as has been known in philosophy for a few millennia. Wikipedia will help you out.

Anyway, my question is this: If you had the chance to repeat the experiment as shown in the video and you got the same results, would it convince you? If yes, go ahead and do it.

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #54 –
intuition is not paranormal thingy at all .

do this simple test  to those that said have ParaNormal ability .
in loterry , ask them two number for tommorow  ( 2D)  .
see the result , then collect the statistic .



on the other hand , just because do not understand how it works , does not mean it is Wrong .
Vice versa .

just because  understand how it works , does not mean it is Right .



Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #55 –
Quote from: Sparta on

intuition is not paranormal thingy at all .

I'm quite convinced that the entire so-called paranormal is not so para after all. It's pretty normal, rational.

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #56 –
Quote from: ersi on
Anyway, my question is this: If you had the chance to repeat the experiment as shown in the video and you got the same results, would it convince you? If yes, go ahead and do it.


There are magicians who have fantastically marvelous tricks and I am not only amused, but I am completely baffled as to how they perform such "magic".  Do I believe in magic or should any rational person believe it is magic simply because they can't explain it?  Of course not and even the greatest magicians tell their audiences that it is all just illusion, deception and misdirection that tricks the human eye and mind.  If these 'witches' were to say the same thing to the audience, there would simply be no show.  They must keep up the ruse with a very straight and serious face to get gullible people to believe it.  If nothing else, they are good actresses and that is all.  A show such as this would never get on the air in the US because it is so hoaxy and depends only on the witches to be convincing to make a good show.  Is this the Russian version of reality TV?  You got a long way to go, baby. 

It is only logical that so called clairvoyant people deny the desire for money lest it taint their craft simply because it is the only explanation for them not being filthy rich.  Can you imagine what the defense department and other companies would pay true clairvoyants to work for them?  No one is immune from the desire for money, not Buddhist monks, ministers, doctors, heads of state or witches Ersi--grow up.   :knight:  :cheers:

James J

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #57 –
This is one time I have to side with Seaton. If these people were for real, they'd be lining up at the $100.00 window at the horse track, winning big on the stock market and buying the sure-thing winning Lottery ticket. Instead, she's sitting in a run-down house reading your palm for what amounts to peanuts.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #58 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on

There are magicians who have fantastically marvelous tricks and I am not only amused, but I am completely baffled as to how they perform such "magic".  Do I believe in magic or should any rational person believe it is magic simply because they can't explain it?  Of course not and even the greatest magicians tell their audiences that it is all just illusion, deception and misdirection that tricks the human eye and mind.  If these 'witches' were to say the same thing to the audience, there would simply be no show. 

With all due respect for the illusionists, if they put up anything resembling what the witches do, now that would be quite a show. And nicely enough, some in fact are quite impressive
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJPBZtmaANI[/video]

Except that intentional hurting is a no-no in the witches' world. The difference between illusionists and witches is ethics. (Not saying that the witches in the Russian show are really angels. Witches is the right word.)

Quote from: jseaton2311 on

No one is immune from the desire for money, not Buddhist monks, ministers, doctors, heads of state or witches Ersi--grow up.   :knight:  :cheers:

If it never occurred to you that some might desire power instead and sacrifice everything they have (money being the first and smallest thing) to get power, then it's high time for you to grow up.

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #59 –
If it's power you're after, and money means nothing to you---- may I suggest top-fuel drag racing. Or top-fuel tractor-pulling competition. Unbelievable amounts of power being generated, blowing through money like it's nothing.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PEYGEzuJh0[/video]
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #60 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on

If it's power you're after, and money means nothing to you---- may I suggest...

To get rid of money (and health), alcohol or drugs also do the trick. Does the addict want money? Only insofar as money gets him drugs. Amazing how this world works, isn't it? So simple, yet so complicated.

I just wrote about monetary eigenvalue in the economy thread. I do not subscribe to that theory. And I honestly do not comprehend people who buy into it and live accordingly.

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #61 –
Quote from: ersi on
And nicely enough, some in fact are quite impressive


Lol...look closely Ersi.  There is a half second delay between the time the blow from behind is delivered to the time the shill finally reacts.  I showed this to 3 others without saying a word to them and they all saw it too, this is a very poorly performed trick.  The delay is the reaction time it takes for the shill to get his cue and then to react to it.  And why was this man not propelled forward at all by a blow from behind?   :knight:  :cheers:

I have trouble embedding video, but go here for a look at Clairvoyance Exposed!!...lol.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3UANEflcX0


James J

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #62 –
Soviet marine conducted experiments with telepathy because when submarines are under the north pole communication by usual ways it's not possible.
Western reports about those experiments were inconclusive.

So I could link to something (dnd sine qua non credibility) there you have it.

A matter of attitude.

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #63 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on

Lol...look closely Ersi.  There is a half second delay between the time the blow from behind is delivered to the time the shill finally reacts.  I showed this to 3 others without saying a word to them and they all saw it too, this is a very poorly performed trick.  The delay is the reaction time it takes for the shill to get his cue and then to react to it.  And why was this man not propelled forward at all by a blow from behind?   :knight:  :cheers:

The problem is that you think it's a blow or a punch. It's not. It's like a sudden stomach or liver ache.

If it were a punch, the illusionist could simply deliver it without ceremony, like the sensei does in the beginning. But the illusionist does differently. He uses hypnosis and builds a psychic rapport. Therefore the effect is different too. You of course don't believe in those things, but when you see somebody doing that to you, run away. Luckily not everybody is sensitive to hypnotism. You will find out when you try :)

Now, if you research this illusionist, Derren Brown, you will find him saying that he does not use hypnotism. You will find him repeatedly denying hypnotism. However, his behaviour speaks against this. What you see there is building a psychic rapport. He does it just for show, while witches do it upon request and permission "to heal" (according to their own particular definition of healing).

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #64 –
Often, psychics are not frauds--they genuinely believe in their powers.  But they've never tested their powers in any meaningful way.  For a witch (psychic), to use her astounding powers on a silly TV show to pick out the male transvestite from a group of women (correct me if I am wrong, I didn't understand a word), is rather a waste of an exceptional and propitious talent--wouldn't you agree?  Why are psychics not predicting the next terrorist attack, bus bombing, school shooting, assassination, natural disaster or anything else meaningful?   :knight:  :cheers:

James J

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #65 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on

Often, psychics are not frauds--they genuinely believe in their powers.  But they've never tested their powers in any meaningful way.  For a witch (psychic), to use her astounding powers on a silly TV show to pick out the male transvestite from a group of women (correct me if I am wrong, I didn't understand a word), is rather a waste of an exceptional and propitious talent--wouldn't you agree?  Why are psychics not predicting the next terrorist attack, bus bombing, school shooting, assassination, natural disaster or anything else meaningful?   :knight:  :cheers:

They actually are doing it. Belfrager's material is one that hints that way. It's just that there are not so many good foretellers, then there are things that are meant to happen anyway, and the whole paranormal field is officially shunned while it's up to the authorities to act on information. Even the more ordinary spy information gets overlooked or ignored, such as Sorge's messages to Stalin on the date of Hitler's assault or the French police records on Kouachi brothers who were known dangerous criminals.

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #66 –
The paranormal field is shunned for good reason.  Scientific test results have shown time and again that the abilities of self-proclaimed psychics is actually on the same par as flipping a coin (or sometimes worse), when it comes to predicting anything--as is pointed out in this short article: http://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/may/12/psychic-claims-james-randi-paranormal   :knight:  :cheers:

(Dumb luck was not even on her side, much less any psychic ability).
James J

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #67 –
So, someone who passes Randi's test would convince you? But this would not convince me, because such psychic would fail the ethical test, which is far more serious. The psychic skills alone are not so important. The way they are used is important.

For example in case of a person with engineerial skills it makes quite a difference if he is building houses or blowing them up. Similarly with psychics, it is not just what skills they have, but how they are contributing to the reputation of their art. And I agree that the reputation is not so good, but I maintain that this does not disqualify every practitioner.

Ethics is central to this art and ethics is at a universal low. Even physicians are not ethical these days. And when somebody happens to make ethics central to his life, he automatically commits himself off the radar screen of media interest.

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #68 –
Quote from: ersi on
So, someone who passes Randi's test would convince you? But this would not convince me, because such psychic would fail the ethical test, which is far more serious. The psychic skills alone are not so important. The way they are used is important.


Really Eric...really?  Why not win the prize to promote their own cause and shut people up about psychics being nothing but slick charlatans.  Use the money for a psychic foundation or just donate the cash to their favorite freaking charity fer chrissakes.  These ladies have done nothing but put a new spin on the psychic con game and you have bought it hook, line and sinker (for the life of me, I can't imagine why).  There are 'spin doctors' for anything and everything and it comes at a very hefty price too.  You need to talk about something else Eric.   :knight:  :cheers:
James J

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #69 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on

Really Eric...really?  Why not win the prize to promote their own cause and shut people up about psychics being nothing but slick charlatans.  Use the money for a psychic foundation or just donate the cash to their favorite freaking charity fer chrissakes. 

Actually they did that. They proved themselves for themselves, they made skeptics talk another way (skeptics cannot be shut up even when Randi changes his mind), they promoted their cause and earned some money - in Russia, where they live. If you are so keen to test them again, go to Russia. Don't be a chicken.

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #70 –
Another simple question. Who is better/worse: Someone who tells people he got psychic powers when he only uses illusion tricks (Uri Geller) or someone who tells people he uses no psychic powers when he evidently uses them (Derren Brown)?

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #71 –
well ,


using degraded term is not wise too ...
psychic in old school used to described as Psyche , or something like that ...

but the world has changed ...

Psychic nowadays is Paranormal , or wtf thingy

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #72 –
Quote from: ersi on
Another simple question. Who is better/worse: Someone who tells people he got psychic powers when he only uses illusion tricks (Uri Geller) or someone who tells people he uses no psychic powers when he evidently uses them (Derren Brown)?


Why would I bother with such a thing?  People (soothsayers and the likes), have claimed to have psychic powers since recorded history, and yet such a power has never been adequately demonstrated by anyone beyond expected mathematical probability.  I call that nothing.  Hence there is no further investigation called for at this time.  Same analogy applies to gremlins, ghosts, god and the striped purple dragon in my garage.   :knight:  :cheers:
James J

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #73 –
What colour stripes?

Re: Paranormal - normal or para?

Reply #74 –
I've never seen anything "paranormal" that didn't have some rational explanation if you want to dig for it. Most of it-- maybe all-- is some sort of flimflammery. Even the night I thought I saw a ghost has a possible-- in fact, likely-- other explanation. Now, I can't entirely rule out having seen an actual ghost--- but the possibility that I was tired, it was late and my mind might have been playing tricks on me can't be ruled out either.

Now, as it happens I did see a pink elephant wearing glasses a few times. Seems the elephant isn't sure he's seeing us. Yes, there's photographic evidence to prove the existence of this elephant--- you don't suppose I'd leave a thing like that to chance, would you?

What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!