Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Human History  (Read 23980 times)

Re: Human History

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
I didn't '"choose to believe" that there is God.


And therein lies the problem. 

You were told what to believe and you continue to regurgitate what you were told in the same old tired words without an iota of useable rational proof or evidence from anywhere.  You speak of things that are limitless when limitless makes no sense and then you wrap that in the protective make-believe bubble of "we aren't capable".  The fact of the matter is, the Bible says that man is quite connected to God, First Peter 1:16 says, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”  It doesn't say less holy or not holy enough, therefore we should be capable of understanding God's divinity because divinity is within us too. 

You will twist the Bible to your own liking here and we will get nowhere--once again.  In the end I can respect your belief as I respect religion (in some ways), for what it has done for mankind.  However, religion also does it share of harm as well.  Among other things, I don't like that religion (including you Belfrager), makes a virtue out of faith..."Faith is a virtue" comes screeching from every pulpit.  Being without faith is a virtue as well because it teaches independence and reliance on oneself for prosperity, problem solving and happiness in this world.  You see, as science eats away at areas once held by religion, traditional religious beliefs require greater and greater mental defenses against science's threatening information.  To remain in control, religion trains its followers to practice self-deception, shut out contradictory evidence, and trust religious authorities rather than their own capacity to think.  Along this same line, religion teaches helplessness and believers wait for God to solve problems they could solve themselves.   

Until recently, most people have believed that religion does more good than harm; providing social services, a source of good moral values, a comfort, and indeed, religion can be all of these.  But 911 changed the landscape permanently.  Moreover, people's childlike and unquestioning faith in faith has been shattered not only by the militant Islams, but by the ever ugly presence of the Christian Right.  In the words of sociologist Phil Zuckerman, “Not a single advanced democracy that enjoys benign, progressive socio-economic conditions retains a high level of popular religiosity.”  It seems when members of a society feel prosperous and secure the hold of religion weakens.  Ultimately, perhaps, that will be our true salvation.   :knight:  :cheers:
James J

Re: Human History

Reply #28 –
It's a your interpretation vs their's situation. Futile argument given his system of belief (Catholicism) . He's 'disconnected' from interpretations of a book he's probably never read.

Just trying to help.

Re: Human History

Reply #29 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on
You will twist the Bible to your own liking here and we will get nowhere--once again.

That's absolutely right, we will get nowhere but not because of me twisting the Bible or anything else.
We will get nowhere because you're frozen into a protestant/pseudo scientific cultural matrix. In other words, a protestant atheist trying to convince equal protestant cultural equals that they are wrong.
With me, you choose a wrong target.

You know, atheism comes in flavours - Catholic, Protestant even Muslim. It doesn't have enough inner structure to exist per itself.

A matter of attitude.

Re: Human History

Reply #30 –
One wonders how atheism fared during Greek and Roman times. A whole pantheon of gods and goddesses to claim non-existence of, just choose one-- any one, there's plenty to go around.

Then, as if that wasn't enough, some of the Caesars tried to claim that they were gods. Got the idea from the Egyptians, where every pharaoh that came along joined the pantheon of Egyptian gods and goddesses.

It must have been rough to be an atheist back then, when the reigning god could order your head lopped off while he watched.

If you're going to study human history for any length of time, you inevitably run into two things. Religion in all its forms, and wars. Men have been worshiping something since the beginning, and men have been going to war for one reason or another for nearly as long.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Human History

Reply #32 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
If you're going to study human history for any length of time, you inevitably run into two things. Religion in all its forms, and wars.

And sex.


Men have worshiped and gone to war over sex. The Old Testament is full of gods and goddesses (Ashera poles were symbols of a female fertility goddess) and of course we can't forget Helen of Troy, the face that launched a thousand ships.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Human History

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
You know, atheism comes in flavours - Catholic, Protestant even Muslim.


Christianity alone comes in thousands of flavors, the absurdity of which comes out in this joke by Emo Phillips:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.   :knight:  :cheers:
James J

Re: Human History

Reply #36 –
Come the next Inquisition, sir, you are in serious trouble! :rip:

Re: Human History

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on
Come the next Inquisition, sir, you are in serious trouble!


Yes, even with religion 'might makes right'.  The Catholic church alone has the power to end world hunger, but they would prefer to hold people's feet to the fire as is the case with Catholic hospitals http://denying care to miscarrying women.   :knight:   :cheers:
James J

Re: Human History

Reply #40 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
One wonders how atheism fared during Greek and Roman times. A whole pantheon of gods and goddesses to claim non-existence of, just choose one-- any one, there's plenty to go around.

Then, as if that wasn't enough, some of the Caesars tried to claim that they were gods. Got the idea from the Egyptians, where every pharaoh that came along joined the pantheon of Egyptian gods and goddesses.


Pretty well. While most Greeks were not express atheists, some were. Others may have been less than devout, so to speak.

Re: Human History

Reply #41 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on

Quote from: jseaton2311 on

Yes, even with religion 'might makes right'.  The Catholic church alone has the power to end world hunger

How might it do that?


On a more serious note; the operating costs for one year for the Catholic Church runs about $170 billion and they take in considerably more than that, of course (by contrast, GE grosses about $70 billion/yr. and nets about $15 billion/yr.).  Of the $170 billion, the church spends a paltry $4.7 billion in donations to charities or about 2.7%.  One year of the Catholic church's operating costs would end hunger in the world for about 4 years.  Seems a worthy cause that could add millions of followers and set a precedent for other religions as well--why don't they do it or at least a large part of it?   :knight:  :cheers:

James J

Re: Human History

Reply #42 –
Money doesn't fix everything.

You can't sum up the church's contribution so easily either. You're suggesting they can end world hunger with less money than the US annually contributes to the cause?

*Or the $70 billion figure you pulled out of your butt?  

Re: Human History

Reply #44 –
So a link from 2008 that's not independent from the ones making the claim proves what?

That you're gullible? If you wanna backup that ridiculous claim you'll need to do better. 

Re: Human History

Reply #45 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on
Quote from: jseaton2311 on 2015-02-01, 17:21:47Yes, even with religion 'might makes right'.  The Catholic church alone has the power to end world hunger
How might it do that?

So your source is Sarah Silverman? Good grief! I wonder what she has to say on dark energy and dark matter. :jester:

Simple:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bObItmxAGc[/video]  

:knight:  :cheers:
[/quote]

Re: Human History

Reply #46 –
Apparently the ramblings of one idiot and the support of one old text is enough for him to believe.

Wait, what was his problem with religion again? :sherlock:

Re: Human History

Reply #49 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on

Quote from: ensbb3 on
If you wanna backup that ridiculous claim you'll need to do better.


This is fairly comprehensive and recent:  http://www.economist.com/node/21560536 

And this is how they calculated the size of the Catholic Church in America: 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook/2012/08/catholic-church-america   :knight:  :cheers:



Those don't support anything you've claimed. I assume you realize that and simply can't.

The value of the church is irrelevant. The consequences of it closing its doors are the issues. And over 12yrs in Afghanistan with an international force that's spent over a trillion dollars with no resolution for what should be an easier problem. No shortage of warlords looking to control resource distribution but you're sure we can solve this problem at bargain prices. Smh.