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Topic: Do you consider yourself free? (Read 28151 times)

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #25
Quote from: Belfrager
I got tired of being a money slave, there's much better things on life to be lived than money. Freedom and passion (maybe antagonistic things, eh?  ) are surely more important than money.

Generally speaking, I agree, but there are things that require money...raising children, having enough to buy food and keep a roof over one's head.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #26

Quote from: Belfrager
I got tired of being a money slave, there's much better things on life to be lived than money. Freedom and passion (maybe antagonistic things, eh?  ) are surely more important than money.

Generally speaking, I agree, but there are things that require money...raising children, having enough to buy food and keep a roof over one's head.
Actually, none of these requires any money. Children need clothes, food, education, and a home, and parents need the capacity to provide those things. Money is just a detour to get what we really need.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #27
Actually, none of these requires any money. Children need clothes, food, education, and a home, and parents need the capacity to provide those things. Money is just a detour to get what we really need.

Please explain that. Where do you buy things without money? Some sort of barter system?

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #28

Actually, none of these requires any money. Children need clothes, food, education, and a home, and parents need the capacity to provide those things. Money is just a detour to get what we really need.

Please explain that. Where do you buy things without money? Some sort of barter system?
Incidentally, I grew up in a farm, almost all my uncles are construction workers and I myself have a university degree and teacher qualification. So, if the world functioned normally, the children could have all those things provided by the immediate circle of their own family. Alas, the world is insane and we all have to be busy earning money to buy necessary things and services, even though we actually have the skills to do it all by ourselves.

We are not free to do what we want and have the skills for. We are forced to do what brings in money. Stupid system.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #29
The freedom to work, earn, create, act upon your inner entrepreneurship, & gather what you need using your own skills, or use the freedom to pay others to do it for you.

Then again, rather than straining your mind & body, why not let the government do it all for you for free, freeing up more free time for
you to enjoy freely at someone else's expense. 

Now that's freedom, courtesy of BHO, & his democRAT Party --
Originally contrived by the socialists of the EU. Monkey see, monkey do. 

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #30
We are not free to do what we want and have the skills for. We are forced to do what brings in money. Stupid system.

Yes and it goes further than that. It models people's lives and expectations in a way that's not too much different from mind control. Mind control from birth until death.

Few people can get rid of this. This is probably the most important thing in life, the right to have our own lives.
Governments are today part of the problem not of the solution.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #31
Incidentally, I grew up in a farm, almost all my uncles are construction workers and I myself have a university degree and teacher qualification. So, if the world functioned normally, the children could have all those things provided by the immediate circle of their own family. Alas, the world is insane and we all have to be busy earning money to buy necessary things and services, even though we actually have the skills to do it all by ourselves. We are not free to do what we want and have the skills for. We are forced to do what brings in money. Stupid system.
It's still not clear what you mean (see the words in italics). You want to buy things without money, or earning it? Or do you want to barter, or do you want to make everything by yourself, - what sort of society do you envisage that would empower you to have that possibility?

If you envisage the so-called "simple life" where you live on a farm, grow or rear your own food and rely on no-one for anything else, you are surely thinking of a middle-age society or maybe even before that.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #32
We are not free to do what we want and have the skills for. We are forced to do what brings in money. Stupid system.

You can't even farm without money, and you aren't forced to do what earns money.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #33
If you envisage the so-called "simple life" where you live on a farm, grow or rear your own food and rely on no-one for anything else, you are surely thinking of a middle-age society or maybe even before that.
I have lived in anarchy - namely, the regime change era when Soviet Union fell apart from about 1989 to 1995. Money was worth nothing (hyperinflation); shops were empty; jobs were sometimes useful, but for other reasons than money; government administration didn't work in any manner (most of the time we didn't know who was in charge). What kept us alive was producing milk, fruit, and vegetables for ourselves by ourselves. Relatives in the city came to the farm to help often. They wanted their share too, because it's self-evident that food keeps you alive. Worked just fine, no money needed. Is there something unclear in this? Something dubious? Something outlandish? Weird Western people, what planet are you living on?


We are not free to do what we want and have the skills for. We are forced to do what brings in money. Stupid system.

You can't even farm without money, and you aren't forced to do what earns money.

During the era I described above, there were effectively no taxes, for two reasons: 1. Hyperinflation (which ended in monetary reform) 2. Weak government, lack of enforcement. Mafia was the government, but mafia didn't extend to the countryside.

Under the current order, you have to pay taxes - in money only. And the money system has been stretched everywhere without any apparent reason. I don't know in your country, but here you have to pay taxes, if you do/own anything that resembles a business, and when you work under a business - which of course covers pretty much everyone. For example my family farm was not a registered business, we thought we were just having our own life, but it sufficiently resembled a business so that when some government finally emerged, we were asked to pay taxes recursively based on estimates out of thin air, because there had been no real currency and no value for money for about half a decade - and there had been no business, just government regulation made up and enforced at some point what is considered a business. To pay taxes you have to have a job and earn money. To have a job you are forced to have a bank account, which is basically another layer of taxes on top of the government taxes. All regularly recurring fees and usury I consider taxes. Government, banks, and mafia work this way.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #34
I have lived in anarchy - namely, the regime change era when Soviet Union fell apart from about 1989 to 1995. Money was worth nothing (hyperinflation); shops were empty; jobs were sometimes useful, but for other reasons than money; government administration didn't work in any manner (most of the time we didn't know who was in charge). What kept us alive was producing milk, fruit, and vegetables for ourselves by ourselves. Relatives in the city came to the farm to help often. They wanted their share too, because it's self-evident that food keeps you alive. Worked just fine, no money needed. Is there something unclear in this? Something dubious? Something outlandish? Weird Western people, what planet are you living on?
???? Are you seriously promoting that as a way to live !!!!


PS - as an aside --- when I typed the above I typed "?" four times. The icon appeared all by itself and three "?" went. A new quirk!

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #35

I have lived in anarchy - namely, the regime change era when Soviet Union fell apart from about 1989 to 1995. Money was worth nothing (hyperinflation); shops were empty; jobs were sometimes useful, but for other reasons than money; government administration didn't work in any manner (most of the time we didn't know who was in charge). What kept us alive was producing milk, fruit, and vegetables for ourselves by ourselves. Relatives in the city came to the farm to help often. They wanted their share too, because it's self-evident that food keeps you alive. Worked just fine, no money needed. Is there something unclear in this? Something dubious? Something outlandish? Weird Western people, what planet are you living on?
???? Are you seriously promoting that as a way to live !!!!

You can promote whatever you want, but I prefer decent subsistence under whatever circumstances. The circumstances are not up to me. Nor up to you.

We did well. We didn't become a band of robbers even though this was the most profitable way to live at the time. It was not a short time. Nothing indicated how long it would last, if it's permanent or temporary. Given this experience, to me any order as well as disorder is temporary.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #36
Weird Western people, what planet are you living on?

The planet of easiness, emptiness and consumerism that leads to serfdom.
A matter of attitude.


Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #38
Income Inequality will, & should always, exist........

Yes, inspire others to excel, but taking earned income from those that strive to earn it, & giving it to the those with less......who didn't earn it, just because they have less, creates a permanent underclass with no incentive to achieve higher standards for themselves, or anything better for their families on their own.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #39
"Underclass"/shmunderclass -- it doesn't matter.
Contest has since the beginning of Time been the corner stone to the survival of any thinkable species. Including such a pest like hoomun.
Communism=Death.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #40
Communism=Death


Socialism
=An obtuser form of Death, but Death nevertheless.

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”  ―   Margaret Thatcher

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #41
In this country (US), I feel extremely free, financially-speaking.

On the social aspect of things, I do not fee quite as free.
In fact, (and @String will get a kick out of this), I felt more free (again, socially-speaking) in the UK than I did in this country.

Some will find that answer confusing. To sum it up, in the region I live, speaking your mind on religious aspects is looked down on. I have been speaking my mind on that matter for years. I've lost "friends" over it, but have kept on trucking. Also, once again in this region, if you are not in lock-step with the current fashionable "Conservative", you are thought strange. "Conservative" in this region of the country means, "I am for limited gov't, except when my party is in control; then, I will use gov't for big gov't legislation, like prohibiting things I do not like".

Makes me shake my head every time I think about it, but such is life.

 

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #42
I consider myself reasonably free as I don't live in the ex-colonies across the pond!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #43
I know what you mean...it isn't easy. This is a pic of me some years ago. That said, freedom isn't everything.


Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #45
I consider myself reasonably free as I don't live in the ex-colonies across the pond!

Yes, Americans seems to be much less free than Europeans despite their fossil constitution about freedom, tyrannical governments and getting guns.
But how ironical to listen it from an occupied wanna be independent place. :)
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #46
I cannot but agree 100% with you there Belfrager because that is fundamentally right. Odd it has been so overlooked?
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #47
Bel, I think Mr, Howie has missed your point.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #48
Bel, I think Mr, Howie has missed your point.

In this case Mr. Howie simply overlooked the last part of Bel's post. Our highly respected Scot is adamantly opposed to independence.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #49
Bel, I think Mr, Howie has missed your point.

Mr Howie misses a lot of my points. Normal, he's a protestant.

But I think that you, tt92, you have the conditions  to be one of the most free person here.
I hope you are :)
A matter of attitude.