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Topic: Do you consider yourself free? (Read 27488 times)

Do you consider yourself free?

I don't remember we had such a thread at D&D but, at these times of oppression, I thought that maybe it was important, that a group that puts friendship above our mutual differences, to be able to discuss the ultimate questions.

There is no absolute freedom, I know that, all of you know that, but one thing is certain, there is a basic need for freedom for every man, so important as breathing or eating, no matter our nationality, religion, social level or race.

Do you fell happy with the amount of freedom you have?
Simple as that... :)
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #1 –
No, I don't feel that I'm enough free, but I'm working on that. :)
Always have my entire life.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #2 –
I know I'm somewhat more free than many people on this planet, but no, I don't think I'm sufficiently free. :)

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #3 –
It would be awfully nice to be free from economical pressure.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #4 –
Amen.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Macallan
It would be awfully nice to be free from economical pressure.


To many people it would be buying a house that turns them economical dependent for the entire life. I see young people committing that error over and over again.

Twenty, thirty years with an huge financial effort constantly and, even more worst, tied to a particular place, limited to accept job offers at that area, the same neighborhood, seeing the same people everyday, no possibility to change their lives easily.
An asphyxiating lack of perspectives and options.

Mobility it's fundamental as an expression of freedom. Don't buy, rent it.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #6 –
Quote
There is no absolute freedom, I know that, all of you know that, but one thing is certain, there is a basic need for freedom for every man, so important as breathing or eating, no matter our nationality, religion, social level or race.
You seem to be sort of Belfragercentric at this one;)
The first (upper) question "is freedom something that is unavoidably needed?", or, more subject-oriented, "do you feel like you need freedom above most?". (And in any case we need to define freedom first)

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #7 –
I'm a full-time mother amongst other things. Do I feel I could be freer? Sure. I'm grateful for the freedom I do have because many don't have as much as me.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #8 –
Freedom is a vague concept unless tied to something specific. Everybody is constrained in many ways.

Freedom from economic concerns. Donald Trump is, but he isn't free of the nagging possibility that he might be targeted by some nimrod who wants him dead just because he's Donald Trump. I, on the other hand, am free from that likelihood. Nobody's targeting Jim Brotherton...well, maybe rjhowie, but that's it.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Josh
(And in any case we need to define freedom first)

Quote from: Jimbro3738 l
Freedom is a vague concept unless tied to something specific. Everybody is constrained in many ways.


The condition of being free of restraints. Seems to me a definition good enough. If restrained to be tied to something specific, it's not freedom, just choice. If, besides that, just a certain number of options are given to you to chose from, then it's not even choice.

Quote from: Mandi

I'm a full-time mother amongst other things. Do I feel I could be freer? Sure.


Motherhood characterizes in the first place by the abnegation of putting other life first than ours. It's one of the few things that are above freedom and, in this sense, should be always considered sacred.


Economics it's certainly at the front line of what people considers to be a limitation to their freedom, but who putted economics there? Who gave economics such a power?
We did, despite being told the entire life that money would not bring us happiness...
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #10 –
I live in "The Land of the Free"-- or so they tell us anyway. I have a "job" that by its very nature attracts free spirit types, but at the same time burdens you with worries you wouldn't have in some other line of work.

I could be "free-er" than I am now, I suppose-- but the funny thing is, some of the things we think make us free actually make us worse off instead of better.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40

I live in "The Land of the Free"-- or so they tell us anyway. I have a "job" that by its very nature attracts free spirit types, but at the same time burdens you with worries you wouldn't have in some other line of work.

I could be "free-er" than I am now, I suppose-- but the funny thing is, some of the things we think make us free actually make us worse off instead of better.


Freedom is not synonymous of absence of worrying, very much the contrary.
That's the beginning of the problem, a so complex world that will bring so much worries to those that pretends to maintain their freedom that people prefers to abdicate from it.

Slavery where slaves desires to keep being slaves, the perfect dead end, the perfect no way out...
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #14 –
My wife is not free.

She is very expensive.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738
The notion of freedom has too many footnotes, so claims of freedom need an infinite number of qualifications.


No, just one, your feeling.
If you want to go further and analyze why you feel free then you need just three conditions, awareness, non compulsivity and moral.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
The condition of being free of restraints. Seems to me a definition good enough. If restrained to be tied to something specific, it's not freedom, just choice. If, besides that, just a certain number of options are given to you to chose from, then it's not even choice.

If that's what freedom is then nobody's free in any significant way. I'm free to comb what's left of my hair, but in so many much more significant ways, I'm not.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on
f that's what freedom is then nobody's free in any significant way. I'm free to comb what's left of my hair, but in so many much more significant ways, I'm not.

Well, I'm waiting that then you say a better definition of freedom.

The one I got was clearly a dictionary type of definition. Man is a "social animal", it means, per itself, that we prefer to trade some freedom for other things. Security for example. Or social ties.
But, if so, how do we know that we've traded already too much? :)
That's the problem.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
Well, I'm waiting that then you say a better definition of freedom.

The one I got was clearly a dictionary type of definition. Man is a "social animal", it means, per itself, that we prefer to trade some freedom for other things. Security for example. Or social ties.

Freedom from something, freedom to do something. Both can be illusions. In some cases I think I'm free from, say, an al Qaeda bombing. Grand Rapids is not a likely target, but who knows?

I think I'm free to walk into the kitchen to prepare dinner. I've done it hundreds of times, but the next time I might not be able to do it.

However unlikely those two cases might be, they are possibilities. There is a point at which the world that I imagine to be secure will come to a screeching halt. :'(

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on
There is a point at which the world that I imagine to be secure will come to a screeching halt.  :'(

You've introduced a perspective that I didn't thought about, "freedom from".
To me, freedom is always "freedom to do".

Maybe there's a time for both freedoms during a man's life.
I know too many people that, at their age, they deserve to be "free from" many things and they aren't.

It seems that either at "freedom from" or "freedom to do" we are too short of what's desirable for a man.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #20 –
I think you are going to need a larger can.

Once you get onto the subject of "freedom from" you open up a can of worms that "freedom to do" knows little of. Some freedoms we took for granted here turn out to be illusions, too-- freedom from unwarranted search and seizure being right up there if reports are any indication. Freedom from fear-- uh, remember that freedom from unwarranted search? The reason for all that warrantless wiretapping is fear of terrorism--so I reckon we can rule that out for awhile. Freedom from want? Not so you'd notice, and in case it does escape your attention just ask RJH-- I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you all about how the free-est country on earth can't feed its own people.

Freedom to do is, by comparison, relatively simple. If I want to build a bookshelf, I can do this. I just need decent plans, a couple of tools and some supplies and I can build a bookshelf. I have as much freedom to build this as my finances will allow. I can call a friend any time I want, I have freedom to do this. I can make bacon and eggs until the very sight of it turns your stomach-- I have as much freedom to do this as a body can stand.

So-- Freedom from may be more crucial, and much harder to come by, than freedom to do. Even in so-called free nations, it turns out that certain key freedoms simply don't exist-- or if they do, they have to be bought at such a dear price that I doubt "free" is the word I'd want to apply to it.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #21 –
The freeest people in the world are the dead — they are free from life with its burdens...
:rip:

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Once you get onto the subject of "freedom from" you open up a can of worms that "freedom to do" knows little of.

Certainly.
I suppose Jimbro introduced the "freedom from" concept just in order to avoid the problem of not enough "freedom to do" question.
Freedom from, although eventually correct, it's something that's better expressed as being protected from or being safe from (at least at the mental frame set of my language).
It has not too much to do with Freedom.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Macallan on
It would be awfully nice to be free from economical pressure.

Quote
We live in a society filled with dreams and aspirations of wealth, a society that likes to believe that money will bring with it happiness and success. The will to succeed is overpowering for some, and the pressure can be all-consuming. Mental pressure can take many forms; stress can enter our lives at any time, regardless of timing or situation. The following men were all successful businessmen who committed suicide. The millions in their bank accounts did nothing to ease their suffering…

http://www.businesspundit.com/10-millionaire-businessmen-who-committed-suicide/

I'm far from being wealthy, but financially secure enough to have no immediate worries. I'm certainly not looking for a tall building.

Re: Do you consider yourself free?

Reply #24 –
Why does everyone identifies freedom (or lack of it) with financial/economic status? 
Keep on doing that will make you money slaves the rest of your lives.

I had money, I lost all the money, I had money again, I lost all the money again... and so on and so on...
I got tired of being a money slave, there's much better things on life to be lived than money. Freedom and passion (maybe antagonistic things, eh? :) ) are surely more important than money.
A matter of attitude.