Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Topic: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia (Read 4886 times)

Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

2014-11-01, 09:57:06

Being a railway fan a couple of nights ago there was a news item on Amtrak the government run passenger rail system in the ex-colonies.

It seems they are now giving out 'helpful' information to rail travellers to note other passengers. If they are nervous, excited or don't look at anyone that is something to follow up. However if they loo about seem friendly and such this is something to act on too. Now how damn daft is that? On top of this it showed passengers queuing up at a main station platform gate and taking their sohes off like a plane boarding. Talk about paranoid over there?

No doubt I will be told it is all about "security" which is a word that has been hijacked by the government, spy agencies, police and heaven knows who in authority. Emotional responses over there on just about everything cause all sorts of situations. And what is next the bus companies? after all rail travel is a modern remainder of what once was in the USA. More people travel by bus between cities and States so how about the same daft advice to coach travel - oh and taking their shoes off too? Well done Amtrak your are doing your bit in such an emotional lot as the ex-colonists!

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #1 – 2014-11-01, 13:45:16

Well, at least nobody can hijack a train and force it to go to Cuba.

I think the fear is that someone may try to set off a bomb on a train. On top of the fact that a bomb going off in a crowded rail car could kill a bunch of people, you have to consider what happens if the bomber chooses to detonate the device while going over a bridge or through a tunnel. It could shut down rail traffic-- both passenger and freight-- for weeks-- maybe months depending on how severe the damage is.

Once again though, this looks more like security theater and less like something that would actually protect the travelling public.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #2 – 2014-11-01, 16:00:20

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-11-01, 09:57:06

However if they loo about seem friendly and such this is something to act on too.

So, they're even friendly in the loo? How so? Do they offer shoe-shining services, personally offer passengers towels to dry their hands with? Excellent customer service, I'd say

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #3 – 2014-11-01, 17:24:56

"15 cars and 15 restless riders".

Unless something has changed from way back when "City of New Orleans" hit the charts, I have a suspicion there aren't a lot of passengers looking about and trying to be friendly.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #4 – 2014-11-01, 20:37:13

Sensible point there mjsmsprt40 about the "theatre" stuff.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #5 – 2014-11-02, 03:11:40

…and here I thought you were going to talk about California's proposed high-speed rail! I should have known better: You only watch your telly, rj. It's only pap for you! Anything besides intellectual baby-food would spoil your digestion…
But I agree that the TSA (and Homeland Security, by and large…) is useless, since it fails to utilize rational and reasonable police techniques (profiling) for reasons of PC theater…

Carry on, rj! (You may by sheer dint of effort become relevant!)

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #6 – 2014-11-02, 10:48:38

Oak, You remind me that we have a section of high-speed rail here in Illinois too. OK, not like they have elsewhere, but-- they did get an Amtrak train up over 100 miles an hour on a downstate stretch. That's fast here, but still slow almost anywhere else.

Bad part: the section still has grade crossings. It doesn't take an active imagination to figure what might happen if an express train hits a beer truck at 150 mph. To really make high speed rail come into its own, the grade crossings have got to go. Should have gone a long time ago really, replaced by bridges or by terminating roads short of the rails so cars don't cross the tracks.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #7 – 2014-11-02, 11:27:18

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-11-02, 10:48:38

Oak, You remind me that we have a section of high-speed rail here in Illinois too. OK, not like they have elsewhere, but-- they did get an Amtrak train up over 100 miles an hour on a downstate stretch. That's fast here, but still slow almost anywhere else.

As you indicated that's not high-speed, but regular intercity. It could be on the fast side for regular intercity depending on how long it's maintained. I did some tests with my GPS back in '09 and Dutch intercity trains usually seem to max out at about 140/150ish (90 mph). High-speed rail starts at about 200 km/h (125 mph).[1] I suppose such a typical definition of high-speed comes dangerously close to defining the original 1960s Shinkansens as regular intercities, but then we don't live in 1960 anymore. It should make perfect sense to say that 100 mph is high-speed for 1960 but not for 2010.

[1] French Wikipedia defines high-speed trains as those that go about 200 km/h on adapted existing railroads and at least 250 km/h on dedicated tracks. German Wikipedia speaks of speeds of at least 190 km/h. Either way, 160 km/h (100 mph) is a bit slower.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #8 – 2014-11-02, 17:14:36

The high speed rail between Las Vegas and Los Angeles appears to be back on

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-03/california-rail-project-pursues-deal-with-las-vegas-train.html

Quote

Making Tracks

Authority officials want to cooperate with DesertXpress Enterprises LLC to make it happen. The company, operating as XpressWest, plans a 150 mph train that would connect Palmdale, about 70 miles north of Los Angeles, with Las Vegas, Chief Executive Officer Tony Marnell said in a telephone interview.

The Las Vegas company originally planned for its route to end in Victorville, about 50 miles east of Palmdale. It added a Victorville-to-Palmdale segment after the High-Speed Rail Authority routed its train through the city, he said. The Las Vegas train would switch to public tracks in Palmdale.

Marnell said he’d like to secure financing through the Federal Railroad Administration and repay the money through fares of about $90 each way for a 90-minute trip.

The private train would boost revenue for the high-speed project by attracting travelers bound for Las Vegas, and through access fees to use the high-speed tracks, Marnell said.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #9 – 2014-11-05, 11:07:45

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-11-02, 10:48:38

OK, not like they have elsewhere, but-- they did get an Amtrak train up over 100 miles an hour on a downstate stretch. That's fast here, but still slow almost anywhere else.

That's what suburban commuter trains do in the Berlin area since the late 1990s

To be fair though, the average speed is much lower due to relatively frequent stops. High speed trains in the area don't go that much faster if you look only at the top speed, but since there's always a whole lot of mostly straight track between stops, the average is pretty close to the peak.
( yes, the commuter trains mentioned above use the same track, with some clever scheduling so they're always out of the way when an actual high speed train needs to run through )

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-11-02, 19:23:50

Bad part: the section still has grade crossings. It doesn't take an active imagination to figure what might happen if an express train hits a beer truck at 150 mph. To really make high speed rail come into its own, the grade crossings have got to go. Should have gone a long time ago really, replaced by bridges or by terminating roads short of the rails so cars don't cross the tracks.

Which costs a metric ton of money ( or ten ) with no immediate monetary payback. Not going to happen as long as there are dirty furriners to bomb.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #10 – 2014-11-05, 13:10:09

The list in the topic start, unsourced as always, reminds me of a list used for customs officers to pick up suspicious behaviour from would-be smugglers. According to memory the list included being among the first to leave the plane, being among the last to leave the train, leaving in the middle group, avoiding eye contact with the customs officers, looking at the customs officers, walking quickly, walking slowly...

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #11 – 2014-11-05, 13:25:55

Customs officers in the US?

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #12 – 2014-11-05, 14:08:25

Norwegian, some internal manual which for some reason a newspaper got hold of. Really ancient, 15-25 years back, before the newspaper internet archives, so a story as disconnected and unsourced as rjhowie's usual. But monitoring "suspicious behaviour" is a suspicious activity.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #13 – 2014-11-05, 18:12:55

A high-speed LA-LV line should make good technical and commercial sense, assuming it connects where travellers are and where they want to be. Political sense is another question.

Transport politics can be ugly and irrational anywhere, but it seems you are taking dysfunctionality to a new level. Ideally an infrastructure decision should be to look at each project, and if when all things considered a project makes sense and is better than other available projects it should be built, otherwise not. That ideal is rarely followed, but the end result is that either you get some shiny new infrastructure or you have saved some money.

It might be years delayed and vastly over budget, depending on the process, but you have something, hopefully roughly according to plans and predictions. In this case you have two parties, one which will build no matter what version, and thus no matter cost and benefits, and another one that wants to make it as useless and expensive as possible, and eventually scrapped, just to score political points (I was about to say "cheap political points", but political points rarely come more expensive than these).

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #14 – 2014-11-05, 20:49:29

You want a real train trip?

http://www.transsiberian-travel.com/trans-siberian-journeys/eastbound.html

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #15 – 2014-11-05, 22:30:57

What was the name of those beautiful scale models of trains? Can't remember it.... Marklin?
A stupid hobby but those miniatures were gorgeous.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #16 – 2014-11-06, 13:48:10

Märklin?
Reminds me of The Toy Train joke.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #17 – 2014-11-07, 08:36:53

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #18 – 2014-11-12, 03:52:10

Having travelled on Amtrak on my two vsits to the ex-colonies I had mused on another at one time and maybe a long thought of trip from NYC to Chicago. Hey, I may have met mjsmsprt40. Wonder if he has ever been on a train? One of the things i noticed was the pleasant atmosphere with people and we all got on like a house on fire. Far better than an aeroplane and having entertained a coach on one from NY to DC have left my mark!

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #19 – 2014-11-14, 16:04:29

Quote from: jax on 2014-11-05, 18:12:55

A high-speed LA-LV line should make good technical and commercial sense, assuming it connects where travellers are and where they want to be. Political sense is another question.

Yup. A flight from LA to LV is wasteful, you can drive it about 3-4 hours. This time the route is improved. Previously the stop was going to be in Victorville, which does nobody much good. Palmdale is better. I still hope they'll be a way to switch to another train to get into LA proper, though.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #20 – 2014-11-14, 22:01:37

I was in Macau SAR a month ago, essentially a casino owners' free state. Public transport and services were unimpressive, all were in the hands of the casinos, free transport, free drinks, free food, while they unburden the punters of their money.

Las Vegas may have diversified from that, but sponsored tickets should be a possibility.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #21 – 2014-11-15, 02:09:25

Quote from: jax on 2014-11-14, 22:01:37

was in Macau SAR a month ago, essentially a casino owners' free state. Public transport and services were unimpressive, all were in the hands of the casinos, free transport, free drinks, free food, while they unburden the punters of their money.

Oh same here, except the transport. Public transportation is under the authority of the Regional Transport Commision . It's greay, if you're a tourist. Don't feel like walking? Wait ten minutes and the bus will take to the next attraction and you can get a pass from vending machine for as long as you need. But for the local, it's not so great. I tried to take the bus and it seriously took over an hour. I could have just drove and been their in fifteen minutes.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #22 – 2014-11-17, 12:10:37

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-11-12, 03:52:10

Having travelled on Amtrak on my two vsits to the ex-colonies I had mused on another at one time and maybe a long thought of trip from NYC to Chicago. Hey, I may have met mjsmsprt40. Wonder if he has ever been on a train? One of the things i noticed was the pleasant atmosphere with people and we all got on like a house on fire. Far better than an aeroplane and having entertained a coach on one from NY to DC have left my mark!

I've been on commuter trains, some time back now. Not counting the CTA and its poor substitution for the real thing.

Near as I can recollect, I rode the South Shore trains from the Far South side of Chicago to the Loop, where the Union Station is, then a short walk to the CTA got you a train to the West Side of Chicago. How long ago was this you ask? So long ago that those neighborhoods, which are jet-Black today, were both working-class White neighborhoods then.

I never rode Amtrak.

Re: Rail daftnes in the USA-the latest paranoia

Reply #23 – 2014-11-17, 21:36:59

Well mjmsprt40 you are not along the majority have not travelled on Amtrak. It really only maintains a skeleton of what once was. Years ago things were notorious regarding timekeeping. A while ago i watched a trevlling docvumentary where the man in question (from here) had to wait an hour on changing trains because freight was paramount and they had to delay for over 60 minutes than offical times. Later it happened the other way.

Of course i well know the usual thing about great distances, motrorways and all that but for a modern country the US is way behind other equally modern places on passenger rail. Like that british traveller Ienjoyed the Us rail travel and he was right on saying how there was a great atmosphere amongst people on the train. Was totally different from an aeroplane. When i look at my historical nearly 3 inch thick late 1950's US Rail handbook and at the time things were declining it is so different from now. A timetable for all-America now slides into a pocket with no bother at all.

Being a rail fan from where passenger rail is so busy the system is creaking with use (like much of Europe and that other big place, Russia) it is sad but i am astute enough to understand that most will not be too fazed about Amtrak. In Scotland a 25 year old shut line into the south east Scottish Borders area is being re-opened and 3 others north of the Border also brought back beat targets now our English cousins are catching up but not in enough places. We have 11,000 miles here. Had the US government not stepped in decades ago we could have more or less kissed off rail there for passengers. Somewhere I still have my Amtrak ticket on the North East Corridor so a reminder of a happy US train time!