Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Topic: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity -- (Read 11890 times)

Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

2014-10-01, 20:12:20

Some may say, in order for the National Identity to survive, [glow=blue,2,300]Cultural Assimilation [/glow] is extremely important -- mandatory, but unforced, gradual but eventual through education, civic & community support -- whereas immigrants are made to feel welcome, all the while being educated to understand that they must eventually blend into the society of their new homeland, & not form their own unique societies in order to retain their cultural identities as a central theme & core.

Others may say that [glow=blue,2,300]Multiculturalism [/glow] the most important defining factor in a Nation's International Identity. New immigrants must be made to feel comfortable in their new chosen land, & in order to feel that way they must be permitted to stay together forming their own Societal identity, together with those alike themselves, within the new land.

In the end. it's the new immigrants that have a decision to make.

Do they feel that retaining their individual Cultural Identity is more important than becoming part of the New Host Society, & accepting a new way of life?

If so, they should strongly consider living elsewhere.

If not, they are welcome to become part of the accepting & welcoming society they have just chosen.

Should new immigrants eventually become one with society via a 'melting pot', as opposed to expressing & retaining individuality through the cultural tapestries of Multiculturalism?

Is Multiculturalism divisive or unifying?

Does Cultural Assimilation strengthen or weaken a Nation's Society?

What do you think, based on your own personal experiences or what you've seen over time?

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #1 – 2014-10-02, 00:00:12

There is usually a third alternative posited in the middle, integration. Migration policy is important, but over time they don't change the fundamentals, which to me are simple:

The world is getting richer overall

Travel is getting cheaper in real terms, in time, money, and convenience (the word to travel used to mean to suffer, as in travail)

Both trends are likely to continue unabated. The consequences are obvious, more people are moving longer way more often. There are other changes too, like trade, communication, and technology, but migration is most into our faces.

Assuming we don't destroy our economy, don't ban transport, or build walls around us to keep us in, national identity as we know it will not survive. Nation states will, at least as long as we are alive, but national identity will have to adapt. In that perspective this thread topic is a bit like discussing the deckchair arrangements of national identity.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #2 – 2014-10-02, 02:08:25

well ..

There are three ways to Conquer some Nation .

1. Blur their Histories
2. Destroy every evidences of Their Histories , until they cant observes it anymore
3. Disconnected them from their ancestor , with telling if their ancestor is retarded and primitive.

IMHO ,

Cultural assimilation = smooth criminal

Imigrants should adapt with new land , not Change the land like their Perceptions .

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #3 – 2014-10-02, 04:09:29

Quote from: jax on 2014-10-02, 00:00:12

There is usually a third alternative posited in the middle, integration.

Yes. Many people, conservatives in particular, are alarmed by multiculturalism. In fact, America has been multicultural damn near from the beginning. People thought that Irish would never fit in, and there were nativist groups opposed them(ironically often composed of only 2nd or third generation Americans...) I'm half Irish and half Sicilian (my father had skin tone that could be confused with a Mexican.) I remember visiting my Sicilian grandparents and the adults were speaking Italian, whereas the children spoke English. We're already seeing the same pattern with the Hispanic immigrants. The adults sometimes speaking limited English, but the children speak English fine and sometimes acting as interpreters for their parents and are as "American" as anyone. So the history of integration seems be repeating itself, although it again might be a couple generation process. Meanwhile for the immigrants, the English classes taught for free at the library are packed. In cities with a large Hispanic population such as Las Vegas, the stages of integration are apparent (not to mention some of the Hispanic families never crossed the border - the border crossed over them.)

Quote from: jax on 2014-10-02, 00:00:12

Assuming we don't destroy our economy, don't ban transport, or build walls around us to keep us in, national identity as we know it will not survive.

That's true overall.But there is a another reason for the border fence with Mexico besides immigration. We need to keep the drug cartels and the Mexican drug wars out of America as a matter of internal security. Detailing what to do about this and other drug policy issues would require a separate thread, however.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #4 – 2014-10-04, 00:50:43

Like many here I don't believe in multiculturism.

In the past we absorbed people in a long period when the population was much smaller on this island and even with teething troubles. The most conspicuous teething was Irish during the 19th and early 20th centuries but in time they became part and parcel. Trouble is now that this small island is now the most overcrowded place in Europe and the pressure on infrastructure and costs is phenomenal. With this happening so fast and no time to adapt who areas have become almost foreign and split neighbourhoods across the land. So although I accept the principle of immigration it also has to be controlled and not just a dumping ground and play place because of the Welfare State attraction. The way things are now going I am not surprised that the number of indigenous leaving here is in the 6 figures.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #5 – 2014-10-04, 08:06:45

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-10-04, 00:50:43

Welfare State attraction

I truly don't understand that talking point, unless the rules in the UK are really, really different from the rest of the world.

[Edit]Hmm, perhaps they are (or soon were). Even so, I can hardly imagine such a thing being attractive. It looks like the maximum is about 72 Pounds a week, which I'd have my doubts would even pay for rent. At best it would make your savings last for a few months longer, which, of course, is pretty much the point of such a system in the first place. Instead of going bankrupt within a month or two you'll go bankrupt in, say, twice that time.[/edit]

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #6 – 2014-10-04, 11:30:45

Quote from: jax on 2014-10-02, 00:00:12

Assuming we don't destroy our economy, don't ban transport, or build walls around us to keep us in, national identity as we know it will not survive. Nation states will, at least as long as we are alive, but national identity will have to adapt

Europe's past, present and, probably future, always demonstrated the opposite. National identity it's growing all over the place and it's not some Erasmus program and other propagandist idiocies that will change it.

Migrant populations are a false and hypocrite problem, basically they are needed to do what locals don't want to do.
Much worst than multiculturalism is the forced imposition of an universal and reductive "culture", expressed by the usage of English language everywhere, American originated softwares (googles, facebooks and the sort), idolization of "Free Market" and the annihilation of humanistic culture and human solidarity, that is known as "cultural globalization".

That's the real problem, that's the enemy, not the migrants needed to serve at our houses, clean our streets and so on.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #7 – 2014-10-04, 13:57:34

What I don't quite understand about those who are afraid of foreigners 'destroying' their culture, identity or whatever tribal marker they bring up this time around - is your tribal marker so weak and unattractive that it needs government protection?

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #8 – 2014-10-04, 23:26:53

Quote from: Macallan on 2014-10-04, 13:57:34

What I don't quite understand about those who are afraid of foreigners 'destroying' their culture, identity or whatever tribal marker they bring up this time around - is your tribal marker so weak and unattractive that it needs government protection?

Affraid, no, I don't think so.

We don't want foreigners to come in to our Country feeling they have some sort of right to just settle in wherever they want, & create a piece of their former country within our Country, under their own set of rules & laws, & under their own control.

If they want in, they must be willing to 'melt' -- 'blend' into our society,
under our rules, obeying our laws, & speak our language (eventually)....etc....etc.....etc.

If they aren't willing to assimilate, learn our language, obey our laws, contribute to the betterment of our society, then they can take their unwelcome sorry foreign asses out of our Country, & not let the door hit them in the ass as they depart.....never to return.

See ya ...... Scram ...... you're not welcome here ...... we don't want you .... you have no right to be here ... Good fuckin' riddance!

Hope that clears the air.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #9 – 2014-10-06, 00:37:48

You yourself is an example true assimilation doesn't work. I assume you are born in the US, and some of your ancestors too. Still you are spouting sympathy with Irish terrorists, even though such Republican extremist nonsense should have been washed away in the assimilation process.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #10 – 2014-10-06, 01:31:41

Quote from: jax on 2014-10-06, 00:37:48

You yourself is an example true assimilation doesn't work. I assume you are born in the US, and some of your ancestors too. Still you are spouting sympathy with Irish terrorists, even though such Republican extremist nonsense should have been washed away in the assimilation process.

Ahhhhhhh.....The beauty of being American ..... One can pledge allegiance to America, & all she stands for, while still individually supporting the political plights of Patriots^*in their quest for Independence, which has nothing whatsoever to do with process of Cultural Assimilation, using any definition I've ever read.
Jax, I guess you, not being an American, might not completely understand that ..... but other Americans probably could & would.

If I read you correctly, it seems I can't have any political sidings in foreign affairs without running the risk of being somehow dissimilated??

If so, that's preposterous at its very core -- totally nonsensical, & completely un-American.

America is not a Multicultural Nation (much to the chagrin of multitudes of Multiculturalist movements).

America is a [glow=blue,2,300]'Melting Pot'. [/glow]

[glow=green,2,300]^* "One man's Terrorist, is another man's Freedom Fighter"[/glow]

[glow=blue,2,300]In 1776 American Patriots were all known as Colonial Terrorists to the British. [/glow]

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #11 – 2014-10-07, 06:59:35

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-10-06, 01:31:41

America is not a Multicultural Nation (much to the chagrin of multitudes of Multiculturalist movements).

America is a 'Melting Pot'.

I'm sure that in practice this is true. We've had Italian, Jewish Irish enclaves. In less politically correct terms, ghettos. My Sicilian father explained to me that how Sicilians stopped being poor was to get out of their ghettos and become part of the larger culture. I see the same thing for rise of the rise of the Irish out of poverty. We are seeing Mexicans learning English. getting good jobs and breaking the cycle of poverty, so I still think the problem of them refusing to adapt to the culture is a bit of illusion created by new arrivals and first generation families.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #12 – 2014-10-07, 17:08:41

Let me say Frenzie on the matter of what you don't understand that we do have a problem. Great Britain overtook the Netherlands regarding overcrowding. At French ports there are constant crowds of illegals trying to smuggle in here and the French have been quite direct in stating it is because we are so damn generous. It is one thing taking in immigrants who are of value but there has to be a limit on a small island like this.On top of that admin services are creaking with inflated costs and towns no longer seem to be ours. With 2 million being allowed to flood in here with the last daft government it only made things worse and the practice is that multiculturism is a joke. When neighbourhoods are taken over and towns change their character little braodness occurs. Instead the incomers regard it as their place and create an apartheid.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #13 – 2014-10-07, 21:14:21

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-10-07, 17:08:41

At French ports there are constant crowds of illegals trying to smuggle in here

Illegals are ~~deported~~repatriated. At "best" have to stay in inhospitable camps while awaiting deportation. They don't receive welfare in any way that could be considered attractive, save perhaps to those who are literally starving. I don't think even the most socialistic socialists are in favor of much more than that, although according to some elements it's too much if they even receive as much as some milk powder. I guess it's like caviar or something.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #14 – 2014-10-07, 23:08:33

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-10-04, 23:26:53

Quote from: Macallan on 2014-10-04, 13:57:34

What I don't quite understand about those who are afraid of foreigners 'destroying' their culture, identity or whatever tribal marker they bring up this time around - is your tribal marker so weak and unattractive that it needs government protection?

Affraid, no, I don't think so.

We don't want foreigners to come in to our Country feeling they have some sort of right to just settle in wherever they want, & create a piece of their former country within our Country, under their own set of rules & laws, & under their own control.

If they want in, they must be willing to 'melt' -- 'blend' into our society,
under our rules, obeying our laws, & speak our language (eventually)....etc....etc.....etc.

If they aren't willing to assimilate, learn our language, obey our laws, contribute to the betterment of our society, then they can take their unwelcome sorry foreign asses out of our Country, & not let the door hit them in the ass as they depart.....never to return.

See ya ...... Scram ...... you're not welcome here ...... we don't want you .... you have no right to be here ... Good fuckin' riddance!

Hope that clears the air.

Shouldn't you be speaking Navajo or Pawnee by now?

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #15 – 2014-10-08, 00:13:48

Quote from: tt92 on 2014-10-08, 11:08:33

Shouldn't you be speaking Navajo or Pawnee by now?

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #16 – 2014-10-08, 03:39:54

Well Frenzie the lefties are ful of tosh at the best of times and it was a Labour government that let 2,000,000 flood in here during their term of office. I wouldn't trust the Labour lot with a pound never mind immigration or economics.

We have even had some of these pests going to court on their "human rights" and getting a clap on the back. All part of the EEC rubbish and get dished out what they want. The sooner we get out of that European Court the better never mind our own judges being curtailed by the stupid laws. Some of the ludicrous decisions make the blood boiland we the taxpayers pick up the tab. In many court issues we cannot send them back as their homeland is not a paragon of proper freedom and blah, blah. For goodnesssake we have a country to run and what these backwater countries do is their problem. I pay taxes and elect people to look after THIS country not others. We also get stuff about missing families and on it goes with many decisions being a red rag to the rest of us.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #17 – 2014-10-08, 04:22:34

Quote from: Frenzie on 2014-10-07, 21:14:21

Illegals are deportedrepatriated. At "best" have to stay in inhospitable camps while awaiting deportation.

That people are in a state of destitution of their rights as human beings that is morally inadmissible.
There are no such a thing as "illegal human beings".
Words matters because human beings matters.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #18 – 2014-10-08, 06:36:32

Quote from: Belfrager on 2014-10-08, 04:22:34

Quote from: Frenzie on 2014-10-07, 21:14:21
Illegals are deportedrepatriated. At "best" have to stay in inhospitable camps while awaiting deportation.

That people are in a state of destitution of their rights as human beings that is morally inadmissible.
There are no such a thing as "illegal human beings".
Words matters because human beings matters.

It's called:

[glow=blue,2,300] "The survival of the fittest" [/glow]

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_of_the_fittest

"Survival of the fittest" is a phrase that originated in evolutionary theory as an alternative (but less accurate) way of describing the mechanism of natural selection. It is more commonly used today in other contexts, to refer to a supposed greater probability that "fit" as opposed to "unfit" individuals will survive some test.

Herbert Spencer first used the phrase – after reading Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species – in his Principles of Biology (1864), in which he drew parallels between his own economic theories and Darwin's biological ones, writing, "This survival of the fittest, which I have here sought to express in mechanical terms, is that which Mr. Darwin has called 'natural selection', or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life."

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #19 – 2014-10-08, 09:32:17

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-10-08, 03:39:54

We have even had some of these pests going to court on their "human rights" and getting a clap on the back. All part of the EEC rubbish and get dished out what they want.

If they were treated in ways incompatible with the law of the land then I would expect no less from any properly functioning legal system in a free society. However, the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights is meaningless by itself: it depends solely on the implementation in individual countries. Incidentally the UK is one of the many countries that voted in favor, more than two decades prior to the UK joining any "EEC rubbish".

On that note, I assume you're referring to the European Court of Human Rights, which is wholly unrelated to the EU. It's basically a direct consequence of the European Convention on Human Rights. It would help to form an opinion on the matter if you had any links to newspaper articles or court case files.

Re: Multiculturalism vs. Cultural Assimilation & National Identity --

Reply #20 – 2014-10-10, 16:12:43

Immigrant criminals here and other dysfunctionals have went above our laws to the Euriepean Cort and got damn compensation. Rumanian and Bulgarian criminals have got the fraud activity sewn up and when people say at least the Poles are different that is not true as they contribute crims to as does the Baltic States. A big chunk of the jalied are non-indigenous so the crims have made money out of us under the "law." I just want us out of the European leg baloney as well as say goodbye to the messed up EEC.