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Topic: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon? (Read 32118 times)

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #25
[glow=blue,2,300]Europe ramps up its sanctions ............ Will Russia back down & withdraw, or will they arrogantly plunge deeper & deeper into Ukrainian Sovereign Territory? [/glow]

Quote from:      The Guardian    http://tinyurl.com/m77lf8q    
 
EU leaders deliver sanctions ultimatum to Russia over Ukraine.

Brussels agrees to take 'further significant steps' and impose fresh sanctions if Moscow does not back down in conflict.

European Union leaders have given Russia a week to reverse course in Ukraine or face a new round of sanctions as Kiev warns it is on the brink of full-scale war with Moscow.

Fears are growing that the confrontation on the EU's eastern borders could engulf the whole continent after Russia sent troops to back a new offensive by pro-Kremlin rebels in south-east Ukraine.

The EU president, Herman Van Rompuy, said the 28 leaders meeting in Brussels had agreed to take "further significant steps" if Moscow did not back down.

He said the European commission had been ordered to produce options for fresh sanctions within a week. "Everybody is fully aware that we have to act quickly given the evolution on the ground and the tragic loss of life of the last days," Van Rompuy told a news conference.

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, said the new sanctions would build on existing measures against Russia......Continued


Does Europe have the balls to stand up to Vlad?

Are they willing to experience an icy cold winter, & the numerous resulting deaths if Vlad retaliates by cutting off oil & gas supplies while he flexes his Imperialistic Talons around the Ukraine?


What former Soviet Union country will he invade next if Europe doesn't unite to stop him in his tracks?

Don't expect Obama to lift a pinky to help ..... he'll rattle his saber, but little else. The ball is squarely in Europe's court.

   RJ must be tickled pink red. Him & his Borscht Buddy might just be
splittin' beets & potatoes smothered in sour cream soon! 

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #26
Are they willing to experience an icy cold winter, & the numerous resulting deaths if Vlad retaliates by cutting off oil & gas supplies?

The Russians probably overestimate the cold of our winters. :P

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #27
Unlike the rest of it's clients Russia gave Ukraine a pretty good discount for long enough and that lot still couldn't pay it so tells something obvious about the closed minds in Kiev. As for sanctions a waste of time as they just bounce back as there would be even further retaliation from Russia. Europe is already in a mess and I watched a German business leader being quite direct and at odds with the government line. Europe especially is having a problem and in the longer term could lose out even further as Russia will sell things elsewhere in the Far East and in S. America for example. With all the exaggeration going on about terrible Moscow and the way some here in the West are so gullible one can realise how easy war is. Don't get too cocky SmileyFaze just you keep killing each other over the pond and get distracted.

Mind you Russia would be quite right if it shut oil supplies to Europe considering no matter what they say or do they are automatically the bad guys. Putin bent over backwards on pressing the billions owed from Ukraine on the murder of innocents in East Ukraine on suggesting a diaalgoue on local autonomy. He has NEVER said they should be separate something that is studiously missed here, surprise, surmise.  It kind of suits the WEest's leader the USA to believe any lie out of Kiev against Russia because they cannot kow-tow tyhat country to them and it distracts the tens of millions of Americans left in the corners of the land of the free and home of the brave. On today's world more like a comedy sketch phrase.

Kind of funny that Washington wants to bark on about Russia and ignore the civilians being done in, starving and so on. They couldn't care a damn about the legions of their own citizens never mind the Ukrainians being killed. Now the Ukrainian Army is whimpering about being chased. A bit different when they appeared on television in convoys giving waves and thinking they were going to do the storm trooper stuff.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #28
Don't expect Obama to lift a pinky to help ..... he'll rattle his saber, but little else. The ball is squarely in Europe's court.

I think it's time for some military exercises involving a fleet of aircraft carriers and 50,000 or so Marines. Notify Russia of our military "practice" so we're not directly threatening them, of course. Just a routine practice, with capability of launching a D-day against separatists. If Putin's claims there are no Russian forces in Ukraine are correct (which evidence shows otherwise), Putikins has nothing to worry about.

Maybe we need to make sure the ICBMs are in operational order too. After Howie's would-be gay lover is done changing his shorts, suddenly there really will be no Russian troops there and no Russian military equipment crossing the border.

Putin will understand this is brinksmanship, but won't be able to escalate it any further.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #29
Now we move to the ridiculous.

So if the US was to land 50,000 troops on a claim of a Russian invasion that would prove Russia being in there? Heavens are you real? The tendency by West politicians and ably helped y the media is "there is every good chance Russia has invaded."  Even coming out with such nonsense without seeing vast columns deep in Ukraine is totally farcical. They aren't there sonny. On a lesser basis you think that your Marines are of course the greatest in the world (yawn on usual brain dead stuff) but are totally ignorant of the fact that Russia has special units that are just as much of a match for your lot. If I was Ukrainian I would be worried by the record of those marines in Afghanistan and elsewhere pop-shooting locals.

The mawkishness of such military blabbering is a groan and insulting. I know you lot worship anyone in a uniform to the point of kindergarten levels but don't get carried away. Those Marines stormed ashore in Somalia with the media and cameras clicking from the media but left in a much different and quieter way. You seem so keen on a war because of the Imperialistic US Empire mentality and nobody has a right to challenge. There is no Russian invasion so do try and get out the childish syndrome of whoopee a war.

This thread is based on a must admit, brilliant style lie. Just like we were told Iraq had those dangerous weapons. Like Sir Winston Churchill I would prefer jaw-jaw to war-war.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #30
Like Sir Winston Churchill I would prefer jaw-jaw to war-war.

Unfortunately, Churchill's adversary wasn't impressed by his jaws.

I never said for the Marines to actually land. I just said military exercises in the Black Sea. Ukraine claims Russia columns crossing the border, send jets from the carriers to check them out. Get photos of the existence or non-existence of the Russians. Obama calls the Kremlin before hand "Hey, Vlad, the Ukrainians claim you have guys there again. We're just sending a squadron to check it out but won't fire unless fired upon. Now is there anything you'd like to tell me?" Why would Vladimir the Innocent possibly object? It could possibly absolve him.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #31
You did make a more interesting and sensible point there Sanguinemoon. That is that that Ukraine "claims" the Russian Army has invaded. It only emphasises my point that in the Iraq War it was claimed that Sadam had dangerous weapons. Wasn't true but everyone just believed the maniac hype and Iraq is still in a mess. The earlier comment from mjsmsprt40 about me not producing evidence? I am the one stating definitively that there has been no massive invasion by Russia at all. Indeed, i pointed out the pictures being circulated included inside Russia (!) and that there was no place etc given with them so what don't you figure about that Chicago man?

Oh, of course you could send folk on exercises because that is what you do all the time being a self styled global imperialist and only your corner has the truth. Bet Moses is turning in his grave. Anyway that would be a daft move on your country's part as Russia is not a pushover even though it grates that there are the odd countries that do not kow-tow to your imperialism. Why you would want to do such oddness is something else and all based on "claims." There have been voices in europe who are not that certain about hyping things up and I think that NATO should have been abolished ages ago. Over 70% of it's cost comes from the USA which is already in heavy debt.  Neither are countries willing to agree with it's rules on a 2% spending on military which says something too.

First it was sanctions on flimsy evidence and that has backfired on Europe which is suffering. Now talk about more silly sanctions which will be responded to by Putin again. It is also laughable that Ukraine wants to join NATO and how will it pay for that one? it cannot even neet the fuel bills even on a discount.  Now something like 2.2 million people in Ukraine have been effected by the military games. Over 800,000 fled to Russia and hundreds of thousands of others displaced from homes bombed by Kiev. Remember your pal the Kiev President said civilians would be safe?

Considering that West Ukraine wants into Europe (that financial disaster are - hey, maybe suited for Ukraine!) and the East does not so try and answer that one. The East has been treated disgracefully right from the start and that along with the civilian situation gets ignore both by politicians and the would-be know-it-alls here.

Being gung-ho like in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, etc has resulted in one mess after another so I would suggest that you do try and keep the soldier boys out of the frame.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #32
am the one stating definitively that there has been no massive invasion by Russia at all.
Nice modifier. I guess it even penetrated your concrete skull that Russian troops are indeed operating in Ukraine.

Quote from: Howie
The US imperialist, blah, blah, despite the fact that I'm proud of the UK's imperial past with a imperial land area even larger than Rome...

Not worthy of comment :p
Considering that West Ukraine wants into Europe (that financial disaster are - hey, maybe suited for Ukraine!) and the East does not so try and answer that one. The East has been treated disgracefully right from the start and that along with the civilian situation gets ignore both by politicians and the would-be know-it-alls here.

What on Earth makes you even begin to think Ukraine would be better off allied with Russia than the EU?

Note the economic predictions the Euro Zone were actually revised upwards , whereas Russia's had to be revised downward by a full percentage point (not to 99% of what it was, but from a 3.5% growth rate to 2.5% - a forecast drop of ~1/3.) Meanwhile better integration into Europe would provide better access to the US Market, which ranks among the better growth of advanced economies. You complain of Neo-Nazis, etc in Ukraine. Closer links to the West would gradually reduce public sympathy for such groups as values such liberty, freedom of the press, etc grow.  But it's up to the Ukrainians to decide their country's future, not Putin and no, not Obama either. But Putin right now is the aggressor for a couple reasons 1) his slumping support at home needed a boast and he got it by through nationalist pride and 2)he feels threatened by Russia's diminishing sphere of influence via NATO expansion and EU expansion.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #33

I think it's time for some military exercises


You mean in addition to:

Cold Response "Nato's Cold Response exercise involves thousands of soldiers from 16 different countries training together in the Arctic Circle. Following the Western withdrawal from Afghanistan, the military alliance is returning to the type of winter warfare drills that were used during the Cold War."

Unified Vision "The largest ever test of NATO’s joint intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (JISR) capabilities took place at Ørland Air Station in Norway between 18 and 28 May."

Northern Coast "The large-scale annual Exercise Northern Coast 2014 trains naval, air, land and special units from NATO and European Union's member states. This year the exercise is organised by the Finnish Navy and involves 50 warships of various types, 10 aircraft, and roughly 3 thousand land and special forces personnel from 14 countries."

Sabre Strike "A soldier from the US Pennsylvania National Guard, left, speaks to a Lithuanian soldier as they take part in a field training exercise during the first phase of Saber Strike 2014, at the Rukla military base, Lithuania, on June 14. The Western military alliance launched one of its largest military maneuvers in the ex-Soviet Baltic states since tensions with Moscow spiked over its annexation of Ukraine's Crimea peninsula. NATO has promised to increase the frequency and size of military exercises in the region."

Black Eagle "The UK is to send a "full battle group" of 1,350 military personnel for exercises in Poland, amid rising tension with Russia over Ukraine. They will take part in Nato manoeuvres in October to support allies in Eastern Europe, Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said during a trip to Warsaw. It is the UK's largest such commitment to the region since 2008. Mr Fallon said Britain was playing a "central role" in responding to Russian actions in Ukraine."

Rapid Trident "As fighting between the army and Russian-backed rebels rages in eastern Ukraine, preparations are under way near its western border for a joint military exercise this month with more than 1,000 troops from the United States and its allies. The decision to go ahead with the Rapid Trident exercise Sept. 16-26 is seen as a sign of the commitment of NATO states to support non-NATO member Ukraine while stopping well short of military intervention in the conflict."

All these, and probably more, exercises are at the Russian border. The last one is in Ukraine.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #34
Yup. in addition. Actual capacity to invade the Eastern Ukraine and take it from the rebels. But I guess we'll see if Putin is actually sincere in these latest peace talks. He hasn't been sincere and lied through his teeth this whole time, though. No, Howie, I don't mean something as simplistic as "everything Kiev and Washington is true and everything from Moscow is a lie." I mean actual proven lies from him, starting with those weren't Russian troops in Crimea.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #35
Cold Response "Nato's Cold Response exercise involves thousands of soldiers from 16 different countries training together in the Arctic Circle.

Finally someone with a strategic vision at Nato. I'm sure Santa Klaus will be stopped this Christmas.
Good news.
A matter of attitude.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #36
Well Sanguinemoon. You are an ordinary American Joe so thick skulls will be something you grew up with so one can hardly expect anything else. All the usual mince about principles, rights, freedoms,morality. You have done a dance on them for generations. Just to accept without any real thought is a bit much. I dare say you went along with the iraq weapons of mass destruction guff as if genuine? When you consider the wars you have created and the mess-ups afterwards do keep out of this militarily please. Russia is too big to try that Neanderthal thinking.

There is a more basic issue here that you and others need to address and that is there are two major internal thinkings inside Ukraine. The west of the country wants to be in Europe and that mes called the EEC and NATO. On the other hand the East does not want to be in Europe, NATO or the EEC due to strong commercial ties and tradition with Russia. Try solving that instead of rattling sabres please.  Remember too that a democratically elected government in Kiev was illegally overthrown so kind of makes a mockery of the West's stance on democracy, rights, etc.  Can you try and face the deep divide there is inside Ukraine? As long as the mouthing President in Kiev ignores local democracy there will be a problem. You have individual States so why not Ukraine?

On a more general thing NATO is old fashioned, pointless and looking for new places to march about looking tough. I would rather the UN did that than a limited viewpoint. Those who ar in NATO and besdie Russia have been stirred up to "worry" about Russia even though the Federation has given not a word about interfering with them - especially the Baltic States and Poland for example. When you get slightly further away from Russia there is a more careful stance.  The countries that make up NATO doo NOT want to get to 2% of their GDP on the military so says something there as well. Meanwhile youe country will go on paying over 70% of NATO and try and find situations or create them to justify the spending - or maybe keep the corporate military industry up to scratch.

A while ago, I stated that Ukraine had to accommodate the 2 eastern provinces due to the deep division between east and west of the nation and that if Kiev was incapable to do anything there due to the neo-Nazi input at Kiev then a split would be next. Concerned as I am about all the innocents being killed and homes and infrastructure being destroyed, hundreds of thousands suffering I would prefer still jaw-jaw.

"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #37
I dare say you went along with the iraq weapons of mass destruction guff as if genuine?

Nope. You didn't read me saying those didn't exist? Bush lied repeatedly so I was against him. Now Putin's being caught in lies. Why is this hard for you? Because you read in RT that Americans simply believe what Washington tell them? If that's the case, your Russian friends don't understand Americans at all.
On the other hand the East does not want to be in Europe, NATO or the EEC due to strong commercial ties and tradition with Russia.

There's no reason that Eastern Ukrainian enterprises can't continue doing business in Russia or continue following their traditions. Now no country can be in the EEC because it doesn't exist :left: But being in the EU, which at this te point Ukraine isn't ready regardless, and closer ties to Europe should expand business opportunities for all. Only doing business with your ethnic group is an antiquated and unprofitable notion in most cases.
Try solving that instead of rattling sabres please.

That's all Putin listens too. Europe holds an emergency meeting and brings the possibility of building an international force; Putin suddenly tell the rebels to stop and tries harder for peace. Coincidence?

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #38
Just in: Estonian secret police agent kidnapped by unknown Russians on Estonian territory

The Estonian agent was on duty with tasks concerning cross-border crime. The act of kidnapping was accompanied by active radio transmission interruption and smoke grenades by Russians. The secret police authorities began the press conference on this topic right now.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #39
Ukrainian ceasefire is making int'l headlines now along with the Estonian border incident
Quote from: BBC
The FSB in Moscow told Russian news agencies that a Kapo official named Eston Kohver had been detained on Russian territory and was now being investigated.

He was, the FSB said, carrying a pistol, 5,000 euros (£3,980; $6,539) in cash, an eavesdropping device and "other materials related to intelligence-gathering".

The Estonian daily Postimees said the missing Kapo official had been involved in tackling cross-border crime.

The kidnappers jammed Estonian radio communications and used a smoke grenade during the incident, reports say.

Estonians say the abduction occurred on the Estonian side of the border. The Estonian agency Kapo has confirmed the name. There are old news about him from 2010 when he received an honorary medal from the president.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #40
The Estonian incident is a serious one. Estonia is on the front line, as also this article points out, The Estonian Spymasters.


Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #41
Unfortunately Sanguinemoon the country guilty of the most flagrant sabre-rattling is your own. One war or military mess after another for years. All in the name of that usual word "our security" or "our interests." Now that one is nearer the mark due to the influence of corporate business!

This whole Ukrainian fiasco was created by Ukraine itself! They caused a coup against an iffy President who was democratically elected! Then Kiev cancelled out Russia as a second official language knowing full well that would not go down well across the east of the country. Neither did the east get asked if they wanted to be part of the coup may I also remind. None of this was democratic nor principled but the West led by your country totally ignored all the stuff about proper procedures, democracy and so on. When the provinces in east Ukraine raised their voices about being stifled they were met by an ultra-nationalist surge from Kiev. The country is very deeply divided with the 2 provinces of the east more linked with Russia and the west more to do with looking west. So how do you solve that one?

The only logical way (as said by President Putin a while ago) was to give some autonomy within Ukraine itself but nope, Kiev was determined to strom boot any objections. With such a deep divide a sensible government would have been more into dialogue but they decided to storm the east and put them under the gun. Unfortunately for them this has not turned out they way they want and now dialogue MAY be on the table because the Ukrainian President knows he cannot squash the 2 rebel provinces militarily. The other night I watched a repprt where the crew were with the Ukrainians side then it  was mentioned in passing that the military unit was NOT part of the regular army but an extreme right is neo-Nazi lot paid for privately. You and others here are so lamdasting that the Russian military is in there but choose to ignore things such as these.

And this whole situation is like a carbon copy of the Iraq fiasco. The West led the guff about the serious weapons issue and then the media joined in hyping it all up based on fairy stories to give the uniform lot a chance to go shooting at someone. All this invasion baloney is as bad as the Iraq matter and it is so alike  you could say 'snap.' Some 2 million in Ukraine are effected and large numbers of totally innocent people are dead, homeless or lacking food and water but then they don't count on this thread it is all about going along with the propagandist mindset against Russia.  For all the aded hype from the NATO circus in Wales the vast majority in NATO are making no effort to produce the 2% military budget rule. Obama and Cameron are to the closer and thinking eye a couple of fused up clowns and can huff and puff all the imagined fairy tales but Russia will not be cowed into submission because the gold ole US of A wants that and gets irked at countries that don't accept what it wants.

So Kiev either has to talk about devolving or the civil war starts up again and hell mend it. Much of the industry was in the east yet in the idiots stormed destroying everywhere. What a farce.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #42
The Estonian incident is a serious one. Estonia is on the front line, as also this article points out, The Estonian Spymasters

Yes, a serious incident but with difficult interpretation... an Estonian secret services agent (presumably an important one) is kidnapped by a Russian commando, inside Estonia, James Bond style... It can only be a master plan from Ersi's brain giving Estonia the perfect excuse for invading Russia :)

A matter of attitude.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #43

It can only be a master plan from Ersi's brain giving Estonia the perfect excuse for invading Russia :)

You really don't know my brain. I prefer to invade Sweden. To normalise the living standards.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #44
You really don't know my brain. I prefer to invade Sweden. To normalise the living standards.

I really don't, in my mind invading Sweden makes all the sense but it would be only for the Swedish girls, I see nothing else of interest. :)

Good to know that Estonian authorities, unlike the rest of western ones, don't use to engage in those discreet exchange of spies and prefer simply to arrest Russian spies and jail with them for fifteen or twenty years.
One understands that Russians gets pissed off with it and decides to call their 007 agent to a mission in Tallinn.

That's a good title for a spy fiction romance, A Mission in Tallinn.

A matter of attitude.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #45
You're another being brained by the propaganda experts in the West. The Baltic States are conjuring up all sorts of cobblers because of their history in the old USSR. Why you think spying up there is any different than anywhere else shows your closed mind.

This is all part of the NATO slog in justifying it's existence and that it also thinks it has some given right to be the world interferer. Now we are being told that by the end of 10 years all members of NATO will meet the 2% status. Kind of funny that one as that is supposed to be what they were to be doing! Anyway the whole thing about NATO is an expensive and ridiculous waste of money and out of place these days. Russia is not going to invade the Baltic States, Poland, etc and the US wants to keep NATO in place to bolster it's brain dead idea it has the right to be the world's decider on anything. That it contributes over 70% of the cost when the country is in deep, deep financial problems only emphasises it's imperialism. Heavens, I thought Obama, Kerry, Cameron were bad enough but when you see that Secretary General of the Alliance it has become a modern Marx brothers style lot.
"Quit you like men:be strong"


Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #47
Oh dear something wrong when the intelligent get conned! And you know fine well the Crimea wanted BACK in Russia and therefore got it's wish. It seems only Referendums that suit the US are permissible and anything out of that scenario is a front to morality. Now your country is ignoring sovereignty itself (as it does in a regular way) by organising bombing inside Syria.

And now NATO that other US excuse is creating all sorts of would-v=be threats as an excuse to put troops or bases up to the Russian border. Now the US led poodles are listing more sanctions against the Russian Federation which yet once again will retaliate and of course it doesn't effect America. In Europe German industrialists are nipping at Merkel due to the loss of business as are farmers and others across the EEC.It is the European taxpayer who is also going to suffer due to taxation to cover financial losses. In the longer term some may never get back to the great trade they had with Russia as that nation wil do their dealings elsewhere. Russia is talking about banning car imports and may also include banning flights across Russian teritory. Sanctions are not going to work and Russia is far too big to try and keep out of the global perspective. It is one of a handful of countries that cock a snoot at the would-be world rulers.

As for that completely arrogant, nationalistic head-banger and lost the plot idiot who is Ukraine's Prime Minister! He conjures up lies continually to keep Obama and poodles on the ball. Coming out with this laughable rubbish that Russia wants to destroy Ukraine. It would be the simple minded who take that mince in.  Kiev didn't care a damn about the Southeast of their land at all after initially acting illegally. When that area took exception they were not spoken with the Kiev lot just went into storm trooper mode to blitize much of the place to pieces. However the last few weeks have seen the Ukraine offensive very much on a different plane now and that is Kiev and the West's fault. Two nights ago, I watched a news item from the conflict and it included the private units on the Ukraine side which were neo-Nazi to the core. Why is there no condemnation of the using of those people? On their helmets, many had as mall swastika and others SS symbol. However all the samrt alexs on this forum are happy enough to say nothing about those thugs.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #48


Someone, who's bed some in this forum would gladly put their brogs under.


Кто я??         нет! I ain't nobody's stinkin' Borscht Buddy, now конфетка pass the potatoes & sour cream!

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #49
Typical American especially neo-con brain dead mentality. Making these stupidities about Putin gives you something to aim at as you are getting short of those you can attack. In the case of Russia a military solution is not on so this rubbish and childish mentality is the thing. Every time there is an example like this kindergarten propaganda it shows how dumb so many Americans have sadly become. They just soak up what the media wants to pump into them and that media is controlled by the corporate mindset. Russia is too big and global to kick around like you do with much else in the world so it is frustrating for the limited minds. As for the poodles that don't want to fall out with you in Europe that is another joke. The sanctions dumped on Russia will not work but individual countries of the EEC are feeling the pinch by Russia's return salvoes.

It really is so ridiculous for a country like America where if you don't have money or two or three jobs you can forget a decent living to try and claim morality in it's policies to others. Russia like China will not cave in but your allies will suffer more than you. Hypocrisy should have been added to that consitution bit of groaning paper called a constitution. Anyway, the Russian Foreign Minister has for ages been trying to get a peaceful outcome after the ultra-nationalist regime in Kiev did what the US wanted and try and blitzreig many of it's own people. A while ago I said Kiev either has to try and accommodate the part of the Ukraine population which it was trying to press down or it would lose the provinces concerned.  Now it has been bruised and had to have a cease fire the chances are now the government has so alienated and destroyed so many people and infrastructure a part may be lost. Serves Kiev and it's cums in DC right as they started this fiasco.

With the mindset of gung-ho Smiley and his corner Russia will be damned no matter what it says and thus only shows the limited mindset across the pond. Over two centuries plus and you still haven't grown up. :down:
"Quit you like men:be strong"