The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Topic: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon? (Read 42122 times)

The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

2014-08-28, 19:56:43

[glow=blue,2,300]The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine [/glow]

The Ukraine asks the U.N. for EMERGENCY Meetings

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Russian troops have entered Ukraine
& are working with separatists east of Donetsk. (Reuters)

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF9hwNRRY7g[/VIDEO]

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMmmqnjLj90[/VIDEO]

Quote from: The Washington Post http://tinyurl.com/nxey44s

[glow=black,2,300]KIEV, Ukraine [/glow]— Russian forces in two armored columns captured a key southeastern coastal town near the Russian border Thursday after Ukrainian forces retreated in the face of superior firepower, a Ukrainian military spokesman said.

The two Russian columns, including tanks and armored fighting vehicles, entered the town of Novoazovsk on the Sea of Azov after a battle in which Ukrainian army positions came under fire from Grad rockets launched from Russian territory, according to the spokesman, Col. Andriy Lysenko.

“Our border servicemen and guardsmen retreated as they did not have heavy equipment,” Lysenko said in a statement.

Ukrainian authorities have denounced the latest fighting as a Russian invasion of their territory, intended to prop up pro-Moscow separatists who have been losing ground to Ukrainian forces and to open a new front in the southeastern corner of Ukraine.

Is this the beginning of [glow=black,2,300]WAR???[/glow]

What do you think about Russia's incursion into the sovereign territory of The Ukraine?

What will the response be from Europe ....... The West ...... The World!?

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #1 – 2014-08-28, 21:44:38

Is there any oil?

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #2 – 2014-08-28, 22:05:03

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-08-28, 11:56:43

What do you think about Russia's incursion into the sovereign territory of The Ukraine?

Russia won't (and reasonably shouldn't be expected to) give up its few warm-water ports… (For something similar —and similarly provocative— think: Guantanamo. But Russia's case is better!) And, as should be known to all, Russia needs Russians…

But, yes, cool heads rarely prevail: It could indeed become another World War, precipitated by events (squabbles) on the European continent.
Nothing new here. (I don't mean the threads…)

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #3 – 2014-08-28, 22:10:05

Quote from: tt92 on 2014-08-28, 21:44:38

Is there any oil?

Good point. Not of any appreciable amount, if any, but.......

Quote from: USEIA http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=up

Ukraine's geographic position and proximity to Russia explain its importance as a natural gas and petroleum liquids transit country.

Approximately 3.0 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of natural gas flowed through Ukraine in 2013 to Austria, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Moldova, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Turkey.

Two major pipeline systems carry Russian gas through Ukraine to Western Europe - the Bratstvo ("Brotherhood") and Soyuz ("Union") pipelines. The Bratstvo pipeline is Russia's largest pipeline to Europe. It crosses from Ukraine to Slovakia and splits into two directions to supply northern and southern European countries. The Soyuz pipeline links Russian pipelines to natural gas networks in Central Asia and supplies additional volumes to central and northern Europe.

A third major pipeline through Ukraine delivers Russian natural gas to the Balkan countries and Turkey. In the past, disputes between Russia and Ukraine over natural gas supplies, prices, and debts have resulted in interruptions to Russia's natural gas exports through Ukraine, with the latest one occurring in 2009.

The 400,000 bbl/d southern leg of the Druzhba oil pipeline transports Russian crude oil through Ukraine to supply most of the oil consumed by Slovakia, Hungary, Czech Republic, and Bosnia. In 2013, about 300,000 bbl/d of throughput transited the pipeline. Russian crude oil and petroleum products also transit Ukraine by rail for export out of Ukrainian ports.....

.......Recent discoveries of shale gas deposits in Ukraine provide the country with a possible means to diversify its natural gas supplies away from Russia. In January 2013, Shell agreed to explore an area which the government estimates holds about 4 Tcf of shale natural gas in reserves. Current plans include development of shale gas resources for domestic consumption and exports to Western Europe by 2020.

That might present a tiny incentive,,,no?

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #4 – 2014-08-28, 22:18:11

Why do we need this thread at all? We already have one on Ukraine and the things going on for goodness sake.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #5 – 2014-08-28, 22:29:08

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-28, 22:18:11

Why do we need this thread at all? We already have one on Ukraine and the things going on for goodness sake.

Simple.
1. Don't read it.
2. Don't post to it.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #6 – 2014-08-28, 23:04:06

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-28, 22:18:11

Why do we need this thread at all? We already have one on Ukraine..........

This thread is totally different.....it's specifically about a Russian Invasion on the Sovereign State -- The Ukraine.

A real & serious matter.

That other thread is, as the name says so plainly, but so prominently implies, is about [glow=blue,2,300]"TRIPE". [/glow]

Quote from: WordWeb.info

Noun: tripe
1. Lining of the stomach of a ruminant (especially a bovine) used as food
2. (informal) statements or beliefs that are untrue or make no sense

By definition, that other thread is about ".....statements or beliefs that are untrue or make no sense",
whereas this thread isn't about "TRIPE", it's about a serious & documented incursion of one sovereign state upon another which may lead to serious consequences for those particular states, & in the long run, the rest of the world.

That's not [glow=blue,2,300]"TRIPE" [/glow]

Now, in all fairness, I've read a lot of your posts, &[glow=black,2,300] "TRIPE"[/glow] seems to be a ~~fecal~~ focal point of yours, one of the only subjects many would probably agree that you excel in!

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #7 – 2014-08-29, 00:01:10

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-28, 14:18:11

Why do we need this thread at all?

To take your question at face value: We don't, since you mean by we you, yourself… Watch your telly and rest on your laurels… (Why do you call them that, by the way…?

I thought foggies in GB called them "nates"…)

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #8 – 2014-08-29, 05:16:06

Quote from: tt92 on 2014-08-28, 22:29:08

Simple.
1. Don't read it.
2. Don't post to it.

Good advice. And the done thing with good advice is to promptly ignore it.

Back to the topics at hand, the first Ukraine thread had this topic start, unrest in Ukraine, protests against the then-President, and its aftermath.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-02-21, 04:34:32

I watched that Obama on television going oBn about rights and stuff in Ukraine and how peaceful protestors should be allowed freedom to protest. Eh? Peaceful protesters can someone find them.Kind of funny when one remembers how the anti-Wall Street folk were treated. Anyway he along with the EEC are sticking their noses into a situation they should keep well out of. Time after time we have been media brained into a one sided report and interviews. Ukraine had an election and produced a President and there he stays until the next one.

The shooting down of the Malaysian airline spun off as a thread of its own. This thread is about:

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-08-28, 19:56:43

[glow=blue,2,300]The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine [/glow]

WAR???[/size][/color][/glow]

What do you think about Russia's incursion into the sovereign territory of The Ukraine?

What will the response be from Europe ....... The West ...... The World!?

Russian troops in Ukraine is not a duplicate of the original thread.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #9 – 2014-08-29, 06:15:25

Quote from: jax on 2014-08-29, 05:16:06

Quote from: tt92 on 2014-08-28, 22:29:08

Simple.
1. Don't read it.
2. Don't post to it.

Good advice. And the done thing with good advice is to promptly ignore it.

Good advice.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #10 – 2014-08-29, 07:24:23

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-08-28, 19:56:43

Is War on the Horizon?

And who in Europe will enter a war against Russia?
And who in the world will enter a war against Russia?

Russia can do whatever it pleases them with Ukraine no one will do anything but talk, talk, talk.
Probably, at the good old CIA's tradition, they will try to finance some "liberation" or "resistance" movements to see if they can keep Putin entertained just with Ukraine.
I doubt Putin's ambitions to limit to Ukraine and there's no one willing to play Napoleon again.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #11 – 2014-08-29, 18:49:45

Can I remind you Belfrager that the one country that does what it damn well likes, invades, destroys countries and such is the good ole US of A. No-one comes anywhere naer it for hypocrisy.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #12 – 2014-08-29, 19:43:39

The USA and Russia have made a point of not tangling with each other in a direct war. Each side has used proxies for the purpose-- Korea and Vietnam come to mind-- but they've stayed away from direct conflict with each other.

I think if we DID go to war against Russia the USA would probably win--- but the war would be long enough and brutal enough even without nuclear exchanges that nobody in his right mind wants that war.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #13 – 2014-08-30, 00:39:31

Eugene Volokh (at the Volokh Conspiracy) posts about, and points to, this article...

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #14 – 2014-08-30, 02:25:14

The Kiev lot have been allowed to get away with direct murder and seeing the aftermath of residential areas damaged or burned out and bodies on streets is something else. The Ukrainian government caused this present debacle by cancelling out the Russian language that was okay before the coup. Some international politicians including in Europe have said that it is a mistake Kiev treating the East and their language as they have. Then we have large numbers struggling to find water and no power as Kiev has destroyed much of the power supply. Their President a while back said they would not be singling out civilians and that is a damn lie since then and it can be seen daily.

I can agree with mjsmsprt40 that an actual war with Russia is not something to be wanted however it would be a guess to simply say that the USA would automatically win. If anything it would be equally possible to be terrible stalemate. More have now died that re the Gaza yet the West ignores the plight of Ukrainians in the East starving and being killed. Even trying to get supplies into the place was condemned. Have we lost our marbles or sense? The way Russian speakers were treated from the start was a disgrace and certainly rights and freedoms did not come into it at all. Seems it is okay for American and Allies to get involved in anything to "protect their interests" but not anyone else.

NATO makes noises but it absolutely sod all to do with them and most of it's component countries don't want to spend any more on the military. Ukraine is continuing to cause problems by saying it may ask for membership thus making things worse again. The Prime Minister is an almost unbelievable, arrogant, smart alec who will stir anything up. I also notice that nobody here has said anything about the Right Sector leadership many of them serving in the National Guard and making threatening noises.. Seems it is okay to put up with neo-Nazis if the West wants them.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #15 – 2014-08-30, 14:51:14

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-08-30, 00:39:31

Eugene Volokh (at the Volokh Conspiracy) posts about, and points to, this article...

While I don't know about Novorossiya yet, I know about multiple satellite images of Russian forces illegally operating within Ukraine. There's is no intelligent way to deny what Russia is doing now, Howie.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #16 – 2014-08-31, 00:02:35

Yes there is White House brained poor man.

I would want to have the dates and times along with the actual place of the "pictures" please then I will be a little more flexible. Now to add to this in case your bias media has not told you this let me further help and enlighten you.

Firstly, when there are comments that the rebels are using Russian weapons - of course they are. When Ukraine was part of the old USSR there were military stores across the Ukraine like everywhere else and these have been well ransacked by the rebels!! In fact the Ukraine Army is still using Russian weaponry dear man. As for hundreds of Russian tanks across Ukraine yet another cobbled item. Let us know when you find out the co-ordinates to verify that. After all journalists are all across the Ukraine's battle zone and there seems a dearth of such a record in action.

As for the Ukrainian Army it has increasingly been sliding into a lack of energy and losing the will to fight thus automatically helping the rebel cause. Add the enthusiasm of the people fighting the Army and things do not look good for Kiev. You also ignore the great input re Kiev from the neo-Nazis via the Right Sector which you studiously avoid and their part in the National Guard. If I tried to be fair to you based on your limited actual factual knowledge I could understand why you take the stance you do. However I am not going to fall back on making excuses simply because you are simple enough just to take the controlled versions you get on the media.

Kiev deserves what it is getting as right from the start they bore down on the vast numbers of Russians/Russian speakers in the East. They are burning homes and slaughtering innocents.

Secondly, there are volunteers from outside Ukraine (some non-soldier volunteers from Russia) and they include from across EUROPE! The leader of the French volunteers has made it plain on camera that they are not mercenaries as they are not paid by anyone. These European volunteers are disgusted at the way the East has been ignored then slaughtered. With the Ukrainian Army losing it's morale against a strong cause and economic slide of the country it is not surprising that their President is conjuring up all sorts of Russian stuff to detract from the mess. In Kiev for example even though still warm it wasn't air conditioners that were being bought but boilers for hot water in the coming winter! There will be a bad drop in fuel supplies and even schools are meeting on Saturdays now as there will be two month holidays around Christmas due to the fuel crisis. And this on top of the billions (on a discount) they still owe that terrible Russian bear!

And this nonsense about further sanctions against Moscow is another farce. The Polish ambassador to NATO seen giving out Polish apples whilst his own farmers are going daft not being able to sell to Russia! Russia will do more business in the east of the world with China and others as well as South America. Putin was very clever on tat recent tour!
So do try and open the yes a wee bit more and then a better opinion.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #17 – 2014-08-31, 00:09:37

Oh, man-- did I just read that? RJHowie is demanding documentation. I have yet to see RJ document much of anything. When pressed about something, he invariably says he saw it on the telly and can't give much useful information so others can find it.

Now, at least Sang did produce some links so you can find what he found--- and then, if you're of a mind to do it maybe you can find something that counters his links. But, at least Sang produced something you can check.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #18 – 2014-08-31, 00:45:52

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-08-31, 00:09:37

I have yet to see RJ document much of anything. When pressed about something, he invariably says he saw it on the telly and can't give much useful information so others can find it.

I know right? He starts threads and leaves it to everyone to find out what the hell he's even talking about.

NATO released multiple images of Russian troops in Ukraine.

Sergey Lavrov of Russia Today claimed the images are from video games

The Russia troops captured in Ukraine must be from video games too. That's damn impressive video game technology that can make the Ukrainian army think they caught Russian troops that must really be holograms or something :p Maybe I'll go to Gamestop and buy that game produces seemingly solid to the touch video enemy soldiers that you don't even need 3D glasses to see.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #19 – 2014-08-31, 01:11:43

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-08-31, 00:02:35

Firstly, when there are comments that the rebels are using Russian weapons - of course they are.

You damned well know that wasn't the entire claim. Russia is currently supplying the separatists and I've provided documentation to that effect

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #20 – 2014-08-31, 04:03:00

Please clear this up for me.
Who are the Good Guys?

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #21 – 2014-08-31, 04:18:20

Time after time when pressed that White House arrogant woman says were sure and then makes a point of not staying on difficult questions. Can I say mjsmsprt40 we are talking about a civil war situation here. I have watched the European volunteers and gave an example of one French leader interviewed. We constantly get the stuff about how the rebels have been using Russian weapons which is a pointless repeat by propagandists. With all the ammunition and weapon stores in Ukraine and some taken by the fighters it is hardly surprising. The Russian Deputy Foreign Minister has stated directly that there are civilian Russians amongst those foreign volunteers. When one considers the utter hypocrisy of the West having a history of supplying terror groups with weaponry aided by the US's dictatorial chums in the ME the totally one-side onslaught here is ridiculous.

The pictures by NATO include units "facing Ukraine." The others lack detailed geography and would be easy for the loads of media to go and see. Let's wait for them......

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #22 – 2014-08-31, 11:57:11

Quote from: tt92 on 2014-08-31, 04:03:00

Please clear this up for me.
Who are the Good Guys?

We're still trying to figure that out.

Let's see here. Ukraine is presently ruled by an outfit that took over from an elected government in a coup. This new government seems-- at least from RJ's rants-- to have Nazi sympathies if not outright being Nazi. Now-- as per usual, RJH hasn't produced documentation, so in my mind it's much like the situation we have here in the States where I, as a Republican, call Obama a Socialist while Sanguinemoon, a Democrat, will call a Republican a Fascist. Not much, if any, documentation to support either claim but the words get thrown around all the same.

Now-- on the other side: The Separatists seem to want to take their part of Ukraine-- Crimea, from what I'm told-- and secede from Ukraine in order to join Russia. Russia has an interest in supporting this since, in truth, Moscow wasn't all that pleased with the breakup after the Soviet Union fell apart in the first place. Getting back some territory would appeal to Moscow.

The claim that the Separatists are using Russian hardware is a little silly--- really, where else would they get it. Ukraine is using Russian-made hardware too, as it happens--- since as a former Soviet-bloc nation they have an abundance of Russian hardware.

So, which side to you like the best? Or, maybe the question should be which side do you dislike the least? The Ukraine side, presently governed by people who got there by coup and who may have Nazi leanings, or the Separatists, supported by Moscow and Putin, who may have residual Soviet leanings? "Choose yer p'isin an names yer pick."

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #23 – 2014-09-01, 09:44:59

Not too far away for the winter to start. As before, general winter will be at the Russian side and poor ones those that depends from Russian gas.
Ukraine, the Baltic countries, Poland, even Germany...
Better krake and ersi to shop for blankets now while prices don't turn stratospheric.

Re: The Russian Invasion of The Ukraine --- Is War on the Horizon?

Reply #24 – 2014-09-01, 17:55:35

Actually there is no definitive documentation about weapons supplies. The NATO lot came out with the stuff that information may point to Russia but cannot be A1 definite about the 'claim.' They simply trot out what Kiev tells them instead. I pointed out the pictures above which were on the Media included Russians "facing Ukraine" but not in it and none of them tell us exactly where. A whole convoy of heavy Russian vehicles such as tanks would be widespread as are pictures of conflict and so on.

Can I also remind that the rebels include volunteers from several countries including Serbia, Czech Republic, France, Russia. Now here is another item for the brain dead who just accept a gullible picture. The Kiev onslaught on it's own people include militia units being paid "privately." Now how about that one? This even appeared in the Times of London which like most mainstream media in the West just trots out anything Kiev tells them and DC nods to. Kiev made a point of having a coup against a democratically elected government knowing full well the East was no in agreement and they thought they could do a Blitreig but instead they now find themselves in a problem and serves them right. Putin has for the umpteenth time said he does NOT want to incorporate the 2 regions into the Federation but they should have more wider political systems in the Ukraine instead of singly out the East due to the ethnicity there.

Not that this mas any difference to closed minds,. Too many grew up with the Cold War and cannot cope with anything outside of it nor reasonable solutions to the crisis. If you read what the UN has said about the so-called evidence they did not come out and follow NATO. Neither do the time-wasters here show any remorse for the innocent civilians singled out in cities and villages for being killed. Instead what we now get is the number of dead Ukrainian soldiers! They started this damn thing and they are at sixes and sevens. You Cold war fanatics neatly ignored Ukrainian bases and depots captured by the rebels. If Kiev had any common sense they would NOT have barred Russian as a second official language in the East, organised more devolved government after the way the coup lot behaved.

In the coming winter apart from the demoralisation of the Ukrainian Army, lack of supplies and food along with any sensible generals they are in a right state. With a lack of power in the cold winter the population will be further ill-served and the Right Sector wanting as I said to march on Kiev and knock out the Minister of the interior and his staff.