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Topic: Small Universe Equation (Read 5307 times)

Small Universe Equation


anyone have ideas how to convert these laws of Small universe ( Human + Human Mind )  into Mathematical Language ?

Science is almost same like tradition .


Definition of Tradition   : a way of thinking, behaving, or doing something that has been used by the people in a particular group, family, society, etc., for a long time

Science is not Intelligence .

Definition of intelligence : Capacity for understanding / the ability to learn or understand
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Raw Arguments :

Everyone can Science , but Not everyone can intelligent.
have  Science doesnt mean have intelligent about the Science .

to understand Science , intelligence is essence .
have Greater Amount of Science in Certain Branch , help to intelligent better in Certain Branch.

How to Know is with  "Know "
How to understand is with  "Understand "
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Expectation : Equation about Science and Intelligence , to intelligent better about the Science and intelligence

Random  protocols :

Correlation doesnot imply  causation .
Equation Without Swag .

in example :
1+1=2 ---> true
1+1=3 ---> false

2 or 3  is not Swag .

also it seems intelligence is invalid if measured with Certain knowledge / science .
in example : a Chef  intelligence measured with -- Physics Science , eh ?   :chef:

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #1 –
Small universe???

How about this: When Columbus set out in 1492, he had absolutely no idea that the place we now call America even existed. His one thought was to get to the riches of the Far East by sailing West, around the world. Now, regardless of the myths you may read, most educated people knew by then that the Earth is round, so all that hokum about falling off the edge of the world can be put into the nonsense file. At issue, then, was the size of the Earth. Columbus thought the Earth was a lot smaller than it actually is, and he reached land right about where he expected to find it. Problem was, he expected to find India and the islands of the Far East and instead he ran into this place. Just as well, since-- if this place hadn't existed, the fears of other educated people would have come true. His ships couldn't carry near enough supplies for a trip around the world as it actually is, and the dangers of starving and/or running out of drinking water were very real.

So now you talk of a small universe. How small? Small enough for light from the furthest star to actually get here in less than ten thousand years?* That's mighty small. Especially since present-day science indicates the universe to be just a wee bit bigger than that-- by several billion light years. And, that's just what we can see. We have no idea if the universe might be bigger since we still can't see quite that far.


*Yeah, I know ten thousand years won't play well here. But, we have "young Earth creationists" floating around who counted the "begats" and came up with the idea that the entire universe is right around six thousand years old plus or minus a week, and are even willing to bend the laws concerning the speed of light to make that happen-- so for the sake of argument we run with that as the smallest possible size of the universe. 10K years for light from the farthest star to reach Earth-- that's about as small as we can make it.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #2 –
@MJ
By "small universe" he evidently means microcosm.

Help him intelligent better in Certain Branch :D

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #3 –
 Small universe ( Human + Human Mind )
large universe ( Nature + Universe )

Pardon , i never noticed there is law or rule in this World to  not using different term in something.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #4 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Columbus thought the Earth was a lot smaller than it actually is, and he reached land right about where he expected to find it.

Is that actually true? The circumference of the earth has been known since the ancient Greeks.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

The circumference of the earth has been known since the ancient Greeks.

Not known, but guessed as best as they could :) (well, estimated) And meanwhile Greek and Roman achievements were lost during the Middle Ages.

Columbus is said to have had a book in his possession that guessed stuff about the globe, such as its circumference and possibilities to navigate across the Atlantic. This based on the text in Piri Reis map :)

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Frenzie on
Is that actually true? The circumference of the earth has been known since the ancient Greeks
A lot of knowledge was lost between then and the time of Columbus. Even if the knowledge was known by some, it doesn't necessarily mean Columbus knew it. Reading Geography books takes a lot longer than googling "Earth circumference, if he could even find a book with that fact.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #7 –
Quote from: ersi on
Not known, but guessed as best as they could  :)  (well, estimated) And meanwhile Greek and Roman achievements were lost during the Middle Ages.

I assume you're referring to Plato's guess, which was wildly off. I don't recall ever having read anything about his methods and if it might've been better with better data, but generically speaking if we want something more empirically founded we're going to have to look at Aristotle or later. Wikipedia provides an illustration of a rather more accurate estimate from a few hundred years later:



Quote from: Sanguinemoon on
A lot of knowledge was lost between then and the time of Columbus. Even if the knowledge was known by some, it doesn't necessarily mean Columbus knew it. Reading Geography books takes a lot longer than googling "Earth circumference, if he could even find a book with that fact.

I primarily mean that if I were a wealthy patron and someone like Columbus approached me with a proposal for an expensive expedition, I would double-check with some third-party experts.

For what it's worth, according to Wikipedia Columbus actually obtained accurate information, but misinterpreted Arabic miles as the shorter Roman miles — hence an estimated circumference of 30,000 km instead of 40,000 km. Besides that, apparently he was also ignoring scholarly consensus at the time, which was a lot more accurate.

Quote from: Wikipedia
Columbus had sought an audience from the monarchs Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile, who had united many kingdoms in the Iberian Peninsula by marrying, and were ruling together. On 1 May 1486, permission having been granted, Columbus presented his plans to Queen Isabella, who, in turn, referred it to a committee. After the passing of much time, the savants of Spain, like their counterparts in Portugal, replied that Columbus had grossly underestimated the distance to Asia. They pronounced the idea impractical and advised their Royal Highnesses to pass on the proposed venture.  (Emphasis mine.)

However, to keep Columbus from taking his ideas elsewhere, and perhaps to keep their options open, the Catholic Monarchs gave him an annual allowance of 12,000 maravedis and, in 1489, furnished him with a letter ordering all cities and towns under their domain to provide him food and lodging at no cost.[38]

In other words, the experts of the medieval world were well aware of the true size of the earth (give or take a few 100 km), but it was ignored for political reasons.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #8 –
Hmmm.... Allowing Columbus to set out on his venture could, then, have been a way to get rid of the pest. At the expense of three ships, provisions and crews for the ships, Columbus sails into oblivion, never to be heard from again. Unfortunately (?) the ruling monarchs also had no knowledge of the American continent existing, so it came as a surprise to them when Columbus came back. In any case, his venture to reach the Far East by sailing West couldn't work because of the limited capacity of his ships to carry enough supplies for the voyage.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #9 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Hmmm.... Allowing Columbus to set out on his venture could, then, have been a way to get rid of the pest.

:lol:

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
In any case, his venture to reach the Far East by sailing West couldn't work because of the limited capacity of his ships to carry enough supplies for the voyage.

It would be interesting to learn how the provisions were doing after the five to six weeks it took to reach America. If America were water, I assume it would take at the very least two more months that to reach Asia under the most favorable winds imaginable. Perhaps Magellan's voyage will help, although his route was somewhat less direct. It looks like it took him almost four months to reach the Philippines from South America.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Frenzie on
In other words, the experts of the medieval world were well aware of the true size of the earth (give or take a few 100 km), but it was ignored for political reasons.

Columbus was an adventurer to whom the earth's size was totally indifferent, he was interested in money, fame and power not in geography.
He firstly asked the King of Portugal the money for his expedition and was turned down, so he turned to the Spanish. Portuguese were already conscious of the existence of the new world and saw no advantage whatever in financing him.

In fact the Portuguese King D. João II, (The Perfect Prince, his cognomen) was already creating the most advanced idea of his time, to move away the Portuguese/Spanish border from here, to the Americas, by what would be known as the Treaty of Tordesilhas and to divide the world.

Moving away a frontier from where he knew would be difficult to us to maintain it forever and put it where both parts were even. Absolutely brilliant stuff for a Man of those times.
Who cares about Columbus...
A matter of attitude.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Quote from: ersi on
Not known, but guessed as best as they could  :)  (well, estimated) And meanwhile Greek and Roman achievements were lost during the Middle Ages.

I assume you're referring to Plato's guess, which was wildly off. I don't recall ever having read anything about his methods and if it might've been better with better data, but generically speaking if we want something more empirically founded we're going to have to look at Aristotle or later.

I had Eratosthenes and Ptolemy in mind, but as you add Plato and Aristotle into the mix, it looks like estimations about Earth's circumference were a hot scientific topic in Ancient Greece. Everybody had his own Earth's circumference :)

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on

In any case, his venture to reach the Far East by sailing West couldn't work because of the limited capacity of his ships to carry enough supplies for the voyage.

Heyerdahl reported on his raft trip on the Pacific that food supplies were actually unnecessary. The ocean provided richly, fish climbed themselves on the raft to feed the crew, etc...

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #12 –
So Columbus didn't know where he was going and didn't know where he was when he got there and didn't know where he had been when he got back.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #13 –
Quote from: string on
So Columbus didn't know where he was going and didn't know where he was when he got there and didn't know where he had been when he got back.

Basically. And Spanish paid him for that...   :lol:
A matter of attitude.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #14 –
Quote from: string on

So Columbus didn't know where he was going and didn't know where he was when he got there and didn't know where he had been when he got back.

Pretty much like most of my trips to the food market. :yikes:

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #15 –
something interesting in here ...

how columbus convince the Monarch to fund his journey  ?

While Romanians not convince the government to fund and prove if their  statisticals methode  is have less margin of error ?

What i missed in here ? did romanians already have statistical science , falsifiability , etc ? 

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Sparta on

how columbus convince the Monarch to fund his journey  ?


Quote from: Piri Reis map
For instance, a book fell into the hands of the said Colombo, and he found it said in this book that at the end of the Western Sea [Atlantic] that is, on its western side, there were coasts and islands and all kinds of metals and also precious stones. The above-mentioned, having studied this book thoroughly, explained these matters one by one to the great of Genoa --- The above-mentioned Colombo saw that no help was forthcoming from the Genoese, he sped forth, went to the Bey of Spain [king], and told his tale in detail. --- In brief Colombo petitioned these people for a long time, finally the Bey of Spain gave him two ships...

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #17 –
Quote from: ersi on
Heyerdahl reported on his raft trip on the Pacific that food supplies were actually unnecessary. The ocean provided richly, fish climbed themselves on the raft to feed the crew, etc...

That's a good point. Also, back then the seas contained rather significantly more fish than they do now. Nevertheless, some fish and seaweed probably don't contain sufficient water to survive? Perhaps a bigger problem than the quantity required for four months of fresh water is the fact that it might spoil.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Frenzie on
Perhaps a bigger problem than the quantity required for four months of fresh water is the fact that it might spoil.

The problem was scorbutus, that's what people died from.
At the time was unknown the association between scorbutus and the lack of vitamins.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #19 –
They didn't know about the mechanics, but I'm sure they knew the problem was mostly due to a lack of fresh fruit and vegetables. (Of course, vitamin C is also present in properly fresh meat.)

I came across an interesting story about the science behind it: http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm

Re: Small Universe Equation

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

I came across an interesting story about the science behind it: http://idlewords.com/2010/03/scott_and_scurvy.htm

According to this story, science is totally irrelevant. What matters is engineerial intuition and preservation/communication of knowledge. And I agree.

I have been interested in explorers and seafarers. I have read the diaries of James Cook, Otto von Kotzebue, and Robert Scott, and books by Heyerdahl, among others.

James Cook especially seems to have represented the type who made his preparations according to the latest science. Inasmuch as science didn't tell (which was often the case), he simply did things as they had always been done (according to the navy book), with some minor modifications based on his own past experience. He had the bone-headed determination, blind faith in his protectors, zero original thinking, and luck that made it all work for him.

Robert Scott acted the same, but with a different attitude. He knew things could fail, and that science, even the latest science which was accessible to him and which he was grateful for, didn't provide all the answers. Those answers were simply not to be had, according to Scott. One can only speculate, try different things...

Amundsen and Heyerdahl were visionary, but with action solidly based in experience. They took experience to the limit where it looks like a crazy experiment, but actually they were totally driven by experience, e.g. Heyerdahl had done rafts as a boy and Amundsen knew since childhood how Saami people move around in snow and on ice. No science and no speculation. They did what they had already done before. They had nothing to do with experiment for experiment's sake. Sufficient experience combined with vision (engineerial intuition), that's how it worked for them.