A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Topic: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance (Read 22703 times)

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #50 – 2014-07-15, 15:34:15

It's sadly funny when someone claims to not hate gay people, then proceeds to go on tirade about how gay people are perverse, out to destroy marriage and family, somehow for forcing everyone to cater to them.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #51 – 2014-07-15, 16:20:44

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-07-15, 15:13:13

Quote from: ersi on 2014-07-15, 13:26:10
Properly Orwellian divisive propaganda tactic. In longer term they are determined to demolish the institution of marriage and family.

And yet it doesn't occur to that they're affirming the institution of marriage and family? Marriage and family were in trouble long before this even became an issue. You say "There is a modest and moderate way to be decadent, but the LGBT folks of our era won't have it this way." However, it apparently doesn't even register to you that married is a move away from decadence.

Sexual revolution of the sixties (or whenever that was in the West) severely damaged the institution of marriage and you say that further "liberation" is here to save it? Maybe, to secure proper salvation for marriage, let's give animals the right to marry too? It doesn't even register to you that these moves take away the last residue of meaning in marriage.

Of course, from your point of view there was no meaning in marriage anyway, so you can easily say what you are saying. The sexual liberation generation directly propagated sex with anyone and further "liberation" promotes sex with anything. What is the purpose of legalising this or legislating it in any way? How does it make sense when people marry their dildos?* The only meaning of marriage that queers have is that wedding is pretty - particularly in church.

* These are rhetorical questions, in case you are wondering. In philosophy this is called reductio ad absurdum, which calls one's attention to a flaw in reasoning. But I expect that for you the absurdity of your position, with its absolute lack of definitions, foundations and aims, doesn't even register.

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-07-15, 15:34:15

It's sadly funny when someone claims to not hate gay people, then proceeds to go on tirade about how gay people are perverse, out to destroy marriage and family, somehow for forcing everyone to cater to them.

Not "somehow". I was quite specific about how it's going on. Anyway, you are obviously not going to respond to any of my focal points, because the last thing you want is for things to begin to make sense.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #52 – 2014-07-15, 20:10:13

You really need to think before anything about queers Sanguinemoon. That silliness about about hating queers then going on a tirade? You very conveniently ignored the reasonable assertion that regarding the cake I compared to that on television, newspapers, etc. Will be looking forward to the examples of me saying I hate the poor beggars. I do feel sorry for them however (!) and they have leaders who are very controversial and indeed deliberately bloody minded in trying to silence any alternative opinion. This cake is yet another example of being deliberately provocative and trying to frighten off even reasonable attitudes from those who don't agree with them. Have a wide selection of friends in my circle of political and religious corners but no queers and although you will no doubt think that is a loss I don't mind as I'm happy as Larry with my enjoyable life!

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #53 – 2014-07-15, 20:55:31

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Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #54 – 2014-07-16, 01:05:54

You should keep your utterly yeuchy life style to yourself Smiley instead of filming yourself.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #55 – 2014-07-16, 20:00:09

COOL IT! Personal attacks are verboten on most forums, this one too.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #56 – 2014-07-16, 20:11:37

Yes, MJM....yer right, I was over the top a tad........

.............I didn't mean any literal harm.................I was being my sometimes silly, overly mischievous, sarcastic self.

I totally removed my last post, which upon reflection, my attempt at humor was overly personal as you indicate.

Mea culpa, Mea culpa, Mea culpa.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #57 – 2014-07-16, 21:12:15

Ach, i wouldn't be too fazed SmileyFaze. I think that mjsmsprt40 was getting too hasty in his waffle there! You can of course argue for yourself and I will certainly do. Glad when a boy i never played cowboys and Indians with our Chicago friend or soldiers as the games would have stopped as a UN man was called in! Anyway my answer was light although missed in Illinois.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #58 – 2014-07-16, 22:05:02

Quote from: rjhowie link=topic=430.msg23653#msg23653 date=1405588335

....i wouldn't be too fazed SmileyFaze. I think that mjsmsprt40 was getting too hasty in his waffle there!.......

Well, unlike some, when I'm wrong, I'm not afraid to take it like a man & admit it.

Waffle??? ..... On the contrary, MJM was spot on, & I appreciate his 'honest' moderation & intervention.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #59 – 2014-07-16, 22:45:56

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-07-16, 21:12:15

Ach, i wouldn't be too fazed SmileyFaze. I think that mjsmsprt40 was getting too hasty in his waffle there! You can of course argue for yourself and I will certainly do. Glad when a boy i never played cowboys and Indians with our Chicago friend or soldiers as the games would have stopped as a UN man was called in! Anyway my answer was light although missed in Illinois.

Waffle?
WAFFLE?

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #60 – 2014-07-16, 23:58:10

Waffles? With eggs and bacon. A cup of good,strong coffee. Gotta start the day right.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #61 – 2014-07-17, 01:56:46

Haha. Now a more appropriate addition mjsmsprt40!

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #62 – 2014-07-17, 05:13:33

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-07-15, 20:10:13

That silliness about about hating queers then going on a tirade? You very conveniently ignored the reasonable assertion that regarding the cake I compared to that on television, newspapers, etc.

I only said that because Ersi did. There's a peculiar form of political correctness that bigots now demand not be called what they are. Gay people are not out to destroy marriage and family, but in fact what they're doing is embracing those values. It's very hard to make the case that same-sex marriage damages the institution and without fail, those arguments fall to silliness about people marrying their dog or toaster.

Are gay people trying to force their will on the majority? Every group has its radicals that do this. In fact, it should be noted that all this came about because some Christian groups tried to force their beliefs into state constitutions and the Federal one. At least in America, there's a term called Culture War. The fact remains the Right, through the so-called "culture war", they declared war on us. Now the have the audacity to call us bullies or even fascists now that they're losing in court of public opinion and the court of law (what they were doing was flagrantly unconstitutional.) Far from it, LGBTs are among the most tolerate people you'll ever meet. Of course, we get called intolerant if somebody attempts to pass an amendment against us and we have the nerve to say something about it.

In the end, it is absurd to sue over something like a cake. Mjmsprt40 is probably right that it actually hurts our cause. However, it also seems petty to refuse to bake a cake and focus on very few passages in the Bible. If the LGBT risks being known for suing over little things like this, Christianity itself risks being more known to opposition to the LGBT community than for the forgiveness and non-judgement that Jesus actually preached.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #63 – 2014-07-17, 18:23:20

I would say that it does not jelp your cause at all and as I also pointed out there have been times when well known queers here in the public eye have said the same thing. He got his campaign cake and after a suitable moan that should have been it. Whether the other baker is Christian or not or even if religion needs to be involved is a distraction. I know an Aethist who is very against queerdom and querer mariage so emphasises my point. So what a surrise eh folks a passing point that the queers promoter here and the definitive agin man here in Glasgow thinks! Maybe i will hugh the Pope next?! Nah, maybe not.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #64 – 2014-07-17, 19:50:23

Hugh the Pope?
Is that the German one or the South American?

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #65 – 2014-07-17, 23:09:56

Well I wouldn't hug any dashed Pope whether South American Iberian stock or Hitler Youth one. And I wouldn't hugh him either.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #66 – 2014-07-18, 07:34:47

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-07-17, 18:23:20

Whether the other baker is Christian or not or even if religion needs to be involved is a distraction.

Is it? It's always Christian groups that engage in one silly boycott after another of companies that offer same-sex benefits or seem in anyway sympathetic to the LGBT community, then have the never to claim victim status and in some cases call us fascists if we have anything to say about it. They had the audacity to lambast us and call us fascists and socialist (never mind those are on opposite ends the political spectrum

) after that company decided to give money to deprive us of our constitutional rights because they're Christian run and we had something to say about it.

The Brendan Eich situation was a little ironic. He was briefly CEO of Mozilla. He gave money to support California's Prop 8 (against gay marriage) and boasted about the Christian boycott of Starbucks made allegedly made the sales go down (note yet another Christian boycott of a company offering the same benefits to all employees.) There was an "boycott" of Mozilla mostly conducted by a heterosexual website (OK Cupid) and a few Mozilla employees. When Eich stepped down, numerous Christians and Christian Groups, such as NOM, proclaimed a boycott of the browser (how many actually used the browser in the first place is unknown :p ) So we had wound up with a Christian boycott in response to a small boycott mostly conducted by heterosexual and not by the actual gay community. Do you understand yet? We have all these Christians claiming that LGBT are intolerant of other opinions, yet are more boycott happy than the gays are. Maybe these Christian groups, whose methods and teaching have nothing to do with Christ, such follow his advice he said "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." (Mathew 7:3-5)

Everybody's entitled to their opinion and the right to express it, but at the end of the day, the constitution is the law of the land - not somebody's religious feelings. The constitution, through the 14th amendment, provides equal protection under the law for all American citizens. Marriage provides so many protections that denying equal marriage as repeatedly found unconstitutional; just like it was when people were attempting to use religion to deny inter-racial marriage. It does seem odd and a little backwards that conservatives are the ones that seem to lack a sense of history; we've seen this movie before just with different actors. Guess what? The script has the same ending.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #67 – 2014-07-19, 01:05:36

Hmmm.... I'm a Christian. If I boycott Starbuck's, would anybody-- notice?

I never buy Starbuck's anyway because I just plain don't like their coffee-- it has nothing to do with who sleeps in who's bed. In fact, until I read about it just now on this forum I didn't know anybody was boycotting the place. It's not so's you'd know by the number of customers buying their overpriced, yucchy coffee and pounding away on laptops and tablets in their seating areas. They don't seem to be hurting much at all.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #68 – 2014-07-19, 14:46:27

These boycotts, regardless of group - it doesn't have to be Christians or LGBT, get more media attention than they deserve. The companies know damn well that few outside the activists circle will actually participate. Mjmsprt40 comment about why he doesn't go to Starbucks brings up another point: how many "boycotters" even use the given product or patronize the target companies stores anyway? Go sit in the dunce corner if you think Starbucks, Hobby Lobby, General Mills, Google, etc haven't figured this out. While it is understandable to not want to give a company that offended you business, thinking you'll get some many million more people to follow your lead and cause damage to the firm is delusional.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #69 – 2014-07-19, 22:10:15

The Belfast thing is being overdone of course. The Christian baker (passing coincidence!) said no but didn't adopt an aggressive and in your face tone. The queer asking for the the cake with his campaign slogan could then object and simply go elsewhere and that would have been that. He did as i said go elsewhere and got the dashed thing. But nope on he goes to the Equalities Commission and possible court action. Absolutely over the top. Even more so when the tax payer is paying for that monstrosity of a Commission and any Court action! Whatever happens over in the ex-colonies is up to them and I know there are States that don't practice the giving in to queerdom. Here that minority can exist like any other that are liked or disliked and yet they still shout out more from a 2% corner than many bigger minority groups. Seems to me the way things are going in the West it is pointless being in the majority for anything as rights become stretched for such!

"Tyranny of the minorities" (!).

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #70 – 2014-07-20, 00:33:22

How is that you know for sure the bakers didn't adopt an aggressive tone? Because they said so and Daily Mail reported their word as fact? Sure, some people are sue-happy, engaging in the next silly boycott seems to their favorite hobby, etc. That goes for any minority or majority. But most people don't behave this way, as you well know. For a gay couple to sue over something like a cake they'll have to spend money to get a lawyer, miss work for the court dates along with the meetings with their lawyer, etc. You have to wonder what really happened the parties to make the queers resort to going through all this trouble. What's the story behind the story?

After a little reading, it seems the bakers might have indeed broke the law. Some are arguing for a "conscience clause" that allows firms to refuse business based on their beliefs, similar to what some folks are pushing for in the US. The trouble is that this extends far beyond the LGBT community and opens a door to wholesale discrimination based on religion (possibly even against denominations of Christianity) , race, etc. It's not all that far-fetch to imagine some Baker refusing service to a Muslim wedding, claiming "belief." What will happen when the conscience laws turns against the Christians?

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #71 – 2014-07-20, 00:52:39

Some people don't need much prodding to create trouble.

Several years back now, the city of Zion, Illinois was forced by court order to change its street signs and corporate seal. Reason: An atheist drove through town, got caught speeding, and decided to make an issue of the corporate seal of Zion, which included Christian imagery in it. The imagery actually dated back historically to Zion's founding when it was a Mormon community. The atheist in question was a well known militant gadfly, looking for opportunities to create this sort of problem. He got his decision and the city of Zion was forced to change the corporate seal. He didn't live in Zion, he actually lived in Buffalo Grove, a good half-hour to forty-five minute drive away. I never did find out why he drove through Zion that day in the first place, but he did and got nabbed for speeding. The city seal on the side of the police car set him off, and-- the rest is history.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #72 – 2014-07-20, 11:14:33

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-07-20, 00:52:39

The atheist in question was a well known militant gadfly, looking for opportunities to create this sort of problem. He got his decision and the city of Zion was forced to change the corporate seal. He didn't live in Zion, he actually lived in Buffalo Grove, a good half-hour to forty-five minute drive away.

I'm actually friends with his son (who went to school with my wife). You'd probably enjoy a conversation with his son's partner.

Btw, I can't seem to find any references to the man speeding in e.g. the 1986 Chicago Tribune (nor in the 2011 repetition of the affair).

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #73 – 2014-07-20, 16:55:01

That example by mjsmsprt40 it unfortunately a thing that is so easy to be typical of much that is going on these days and atheists also get the bit between their teeth. Recently down over the Border in England a church had a poster sign outside that advised atheists they had better be right (!).And an atheists took exception to that humour and complained to the police!

Sanguinemoon, you are so up to your ears in this queer agenda that you automatically come up with this throwaway on how do i know the baker was not in the face. I dare say had it been in the failing Guardian or similar that would be okay but horror you react by throwing in the Daily Mail! Daft. Oh, and i take it the Belfast media is also in your diatribe?? Then that stuff about the individual queer wanting the campaign cake might then be out of pocket and all that baloney. Having the Equalities Commission on board is another consideration. The uptight queer could sue the baker and maybe force the closure of the 4 shops the staff go unemployed. After all the elderly couple who refused a room in their bed and breakfast home were sued by the 2 queers. There was nothing stopping the man from complaining then going elsewhere (which he did remember and got it). Maybe queerdom wants to stretch itself and be the most minority and beat the Muslims and everyone else but these incidents are over the top. We are gradually reaching the point that amongst our rights and freedoms we wil soon have a law about offending anyone. That is not as pushed as might be thought. As a person of some strength can occasionally be in a discussion or argument where something might be offensive twoards me but I don't start crying and run to authorities.

We are now experiencing something which I would call "tyranny of the minorities" which increasingly has worked into the psyche of the majority who have either become complacent or fearful of expressing an opinion. So this culprit in Belfast had the right to moan but has made a war out of a trivial thing in reality. You have yor stance and I have mine so learn to try and live with it.

Re: A Belfast cake and queers care arrogance

Reply #74 – 2014-07-21, 14:59:00

My stance? You and OakdaleFTL suffer the same disease, inventing a radical position for me - a position that runs contrary to everything I've actually said. Do you somehow imagine that I support complaining to the commission and suing, despite the fact I clearly said otherwise?