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Topic: Ukraine — the forgotten war (Read 341 times)

Ukraine — the forgotten war

While it still shows up in the news sporadically, the war in Ukraine seems to have lost the public's attention. But some still pay heed...

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TALLINN and WASHINGTON — Armed with a marker and a white board, Estonia’s chief of defense jotted out what looked like gibberish, but to his mind was a simple algorithm that held the future of his country in the balance — a “formula,” Gen. Martin Herem said, for “when Russia is coming.”

It looked something like this: -U + yˆG – W + EST(N)

Translated, that’s minus the time when fighting stops in Ukraine (U), plus the time Moscow needs to prepare to make a move (y) — Herem believes hardly any time at all — modified by Russia’s ultimate goal (G), minus the world’s attention and the opportunity for Russia to act (W), plus Estonia’s readiness (EST), multiplied by NATO’s collective readiness (N).

Herem acknowledged he’s not a mathematician by trade, but the real problem, as he sees it, is that each of those variables is, well, variable — all except one.

“There’s only one factor that we can change: our readiness,” he said in early May. “We can support Ukraine, but one day [Russia] is coming out.”

That tiny Estonia exists under the NATO security umbrella seems to give Herem little reassurance. And while he sounds more bluntly fatalistic than others, Herem — who retired on July 1 — is hardly alone in his dim view of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s designs on northeastern Europe.

The war in Ukraine can feel abstract for much of the world, but nations close to Russia’s border have been forced to reckon with its practical implications: Namely, what will Putin do with his reconstituted army and ramped up industrial capacity when the fighting to the south dies down, one way or the other?

I'd specially ersi's comments...
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #1
Forgotten in America or something? I'll note that the topmost headline in today's newpaper reads as follows:

For months, Russia has been testing the most effective combination of missiles against Ukraine's air defenses
The Russians have spent the past two years constantly refining missile strikes against Ukraine and the routes of the missiles, in order to inflict as much damage as possible.

 

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #2
Ukraine coverage continues here too. The war is not forgotten. This country is not like USA where you can have a president like Trump who does not know what NATO is when assuming office, and hardly knowing any better after leaving office. "Pay bills", seriously?

You sorta kinda 50-50 passed the sanity check, Oakdale, but I think it's fair to lean towards that you actually did not, because you support Trump, who doesn't pass any checks. He goes on unchecked.

Let's try this:
- Who were the people who assaulted the Capitol on January 6 2021? Antifa? BLM? Patriots? Was it a CIA inside job? Or did it not happen? Or do you have some nuanced opinion on this that you could kindly elaborate on?
- Are illegal immigrants voting Democrat?

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #3
Who were the people who assaulted the Capitol on January 6 2021? Antifa? BLM? Patriots? Was it a CIA inside job? Or did it not happen? Or do you have some nuanced opinion on this that you could kindly elaborate on?
It was a protest that became a riot, on a small scale. The Speaker of the House and the Mayor of D.C. both refused Trump's offer of National Guard troops for crowd control, presumably because of "Optics!".[1]
Pelosi's daughter, making a "documentary", caught mom saying it was her fault. (And -consequently- not Trump's...)
Are illegal immigrants voting Democrat?
You tell me: Almost all Democrats in the House and the Senate and POTUS, in a recent policy statement are against A.R. 8281, the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility  Act.. Biden has threatened a veto...
In other words, it's illegal for illegals to vote, but it can't be allowed to ask for verification of citizenship... Does that make sense to you, ersi?

Another forgotten war: U.S. Democratic Pary against democracy... Stay tuned! :)
This was the primary reason there were no "witnesses" allowed during Trump's second impeachment trial: Speaker Pelosi might have been called to testify under oath (that is, risking the charge of perjury! :) ) as would other officials. What -I wonder- couldn't they say, under oath? :)
If you won't understand my mirth: Explain (or ask any administration official to do so) why the pipe-bombers at the DNC and the RNC have not been apprehended and prosecuted?!  It's been quite a while...three-plus years! Are the FBI and Secret Service and the Capitol Police incompetent? This was after all an attempted assassination of the Vice-President Elect! (She was in the DNC at the time the "bomb" was found! A big deal, no?!  :) )
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #4
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Putin reiterated his insistence that any ceasefire be the, to coin a phrase, "final solution," to the Ukrainian problem, not a starting point for negotiations. Putin said, "There should not be a truce or a pause for the rearmament of the Kyiv regime. Moscow stands for a complete and final end to the conflict."
(source0
To be blunt, Putin said:
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“They [the West] say that they want to achieve the strategic defeat of Russia on the battlefield. What does this mean for Russia? For Russia, this means the end of its statehood. This means the end of the 1000-year history of the Russian state. I think this is clear to everyone. And then the question arises: why should we be afraid? Isn't it better for us to go tothe end? This is elementary formal logic”
Let me be blunt, too! Putin says, "If Russia can't "annex" whatever country it wants, that's the end of Russia!" Well, Boo-Hoo, Vlad! A United Europe stands against you...?! (Doesn't it?)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #5
You completely failed the sanity check, Oakdale. You don't need to read further.

It was a protest that became a riot, on a small scale.
False. It's a simple visual thing. You are not blind, are you? To be able to say that it was small in scale you have to be wilfully making yourself blind. Therefore this is an unforgivable mistake you are making here.

The Speaker of the House and the Mayor of D.C. both refused Trump's offer of National Guard troops for crowd control, presumably because of "Optics!". This was the primary reason there were no "witnesses" allowed during Trump's second impeachment trial...
False. In the second impeachment, one deposition was heard, so there was one witness. It was just one because of time constraints as Trump's term was ending anyway. Trump's defenders did not threaten to just call in Pelosi. They threatened to call in a 100 witnesses and to drag out the impeachment.

In contrast, there were zero witnesses in Trump's first impeachment. The phrase "no witnesses allowed" regarding the second impeachment betrays that your source is Q.

Pelosi's daughter, making a "documentary", caught mom saying it was her fault. (And -consequently- not Trump's...)
This interpretation of events betrays again that your source is Q. While the video is real, it is talking about accountability and responsibility rather than fault. A truer interpretation of the video is that Pelosi regrets not having foreseen the events and not having requested for better security, including National Guard, long beforehand.

To blame the lack of National Guard on Pelosi is an irresponsible Q talking point, because nobody in the Congress has command over National Guard. Instead, several people in the president's cabinet, most importantly the president himself, have command over National Guard, and the procedure is not that the speaker of the House needs to accept or can reject the "offer". The procedure is that the responsible person in the cabinet needs to order the National Guard and then it happens.

In reality, Trump made no such offer, much less the relevant order. If you believe the opposite, then you are bathing in Q brainwash.

In other words, it's illegal for illegals to vote, but it can't be allowed to ask for verification of citizenship... Does that make sense to you, ersi?
In re-counts and voter fraud investigations it has been found that by a very wide margin it is Republicans voting more than once. In comparison, other voter fraud is nearly non-existent. Specifically, illegal immigrants do not vote. It makes logical sense too: Illegals do not want to be found out, so they lay low.

In different states the voting system is different, but from what I can glean, in more than half of the states you have to "register to vote" which means registering yourself for one party or another. In European terms this means that in USA it's not people who are voting. It's party delegates instead. Therefore, insofar as this is the scheme in the majority of states, whatever irregularities of identity checks there are, they are on the parties rather than on the states or municipalities or levels of government/administration.

Superficially of course it sounds reasonable to make federal elections more uniform, but from what has been seen from Republican attempts to impose proof of voting at earlier times, the actual goal (and effect) has been to segregate. In districts disadvantegeous to Republicans, proof of voting or proof of citizenship serves as an additional hurdle to lock out people who cannot afford the ID documents or the documents are made hard to obtain, just like in the good old times the "literacy test" for voters, so the result is yet another manner of gerrymandering the districts. Whereas the Q/MAGA-est pro-Republican voters have the sov-cit mindset: "I'm American and NO F'N GUVEMENT HAS ANY RIGHT TO I.D. ME!!! THE SECOND AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION GRANTS ME THE RIGHT TO VOTE!!!" They will naturally continue to vote without any I.D.

In USA nothing makes sense either way because it is a third world dump, not a civilised nation.

To regain your sanity, you need to stop looking at Q sources and re-discover actual news sources and primary sources. I won't help you there. It takes deliberate conscious effort to get into Q in the first place, so now you have no excuse for your bubble of alternate facts. It's your self-made problem, and it's not my responsibility to help you out.

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #6
Such a clutter of misinformation!

I don't know what your fascination with the "Q" entity is... (I hadn't pegged you as a memes-only guy! :) ) But let me disabuse you: Most of what I know of what happened on January 6, 2021 comes from the then-chief of the Capitol Police.

And -concerning witnesses at the Senate trial- what was the hurry you speak of? Trump was already out of office when it began; Biden was the President. Why were they pressed for time? (I'd never heard that excuse before. Please elucidate
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #7
But let me disabuse you: Most of what I know of what happened on January 6, 2021 comes from the then-chief of the Capitol Police.
You know exactly one thing from him: The word "optics". But you know this via Q, because you are putting exactly the Q spin on it. Namely, you are saying that Trump's offer of National Guard was refused (by Pelosi?) because of "optics". The truth is that there was no Trump's offer of National Guard whatsoever. The claim that Trump offered National Guard to Congress/Pelosi is Q.

If your source were Steven Sund, chief of Capitol Police, then you'd say that Sund mentioned requesting National Guard to House and Senate sergeants-at-arms a few days ahead January 6th, one of whom mumbled something about "optics". After January 6 all three were dismissed or resigned, because they had blown it. Pelosi is not part of Sund's story.

Trump is lying and relaying Q constantly. It doesn't mean you have to swallow it all unquestioningly.

And -concerning witnesses at the Senate trial- what was the hurry you speak of? Trump was already out of office when it began; Biden was the President. Why were they pressed for time? (I'd never heard that excuse before. Please elucidate
I will say only this: Trump was NOT already out of office. The hurry was exactly to get him impeached before he leaves office and this was narrowly achieved.

I will not give you sources. It is more rewarding for you to discover the facts on your own.

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #8
I will say only this: Trump was NOT already out of office. The hurry was exactly to get him impeached before he leaves office and this was narrowly achieved.
For offenses that hadn't yet occurred?
The "hurry was exactly to get him impeached before he leaves office"...?![1]

The Articles of Impeachment were introduced in the House on Jan 11, 2021, five days after he left office... That requires a definition of "narrowly" that's quite bizarre! :)
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The second impeachment trial of Donald Trump, the 45th president of the United States (in office from 2017 to 2021), began on February 9, 2021, and concluded with his acquittal on February 13.

So — you claim Jan 6 wasn't on Jan 6? :) Quite an odd argument, ersi! :)
I think I know where you get such ideas from: The 51 Intelligence Community officials who said the Hunter Biden laptop had "all the earmarks of a Russian intelligence disinfo opperation..."!
(You might recall that the FBI has recently vouched for the laptop in a trial that found Hunter guilty of three felony charges.)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #9
I suppose this is as good a place to put this as any other!? :)

ersi keeps referring to "Q" — here's what Wikipedia has to say about it:
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QAnon centers on fabricated claims made by an anonymous individual or individuals known as "Q". Those claims have been relayed and developed by online communities and influencers. Their core belief is that a cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic child molesters is operating a global child sex trafficking ring that conspired against president Donald Trump. QAnon has direct roots in Pizzagate, an Internet conspiracy theory that appeared one year earlier, but also incorporates elements of many other theories. QAnon has been described as a cult.
(emphasis added)
source

Methinks ersi himself is a conspiracy theorist!  Or -at least- someone so broken by propaganda that he doesn't know reality from ideologically propagated fantasy.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #10
Good afternoon, doofus.

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Their core belief is that a cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic child molesters is operating a global child sex trafficking ring that conspired against president Donald Trump.
Did you read this as:

QAnon is a conspiracy against Trump.

?

It actually says: QAnon's core belief is that Donald Trump is being conspired against by a cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic child molesters... and therefore Trump needs urgent operative protection by all means.

Your reading comprehension is failing, but this should be for you easy to remember:

You are always wrong about everything.[1]

The hard part is for you to fix it. It's entirely up to you. I'm done helping.
This includes the date when Biden assumed office and therefore Trump had to leave even though he had not conceded and has not conceded to this day. As per Q, Trump has been the legitimate president all these years. Says Wikipedia, "Donald Trump, the 45th president of the United States, was impeached for the second time on January 13, 2021, one week before his term expired." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_impeachment_of_Donald_Trump

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #11
ersi, you just can't help yourself! :) I read the line as any sane person would: The Pizzagate conspiracy theory is not sane![1](Was it taken to be against Trump? Yeah; by people who disregard conspiracy theories — but who note that Democrats will try to use any such, no matter how obscure, as fodder for their anti-Trump tropes...) What makes you think that this "Q" and cohorts aren't Dem social media operatives? :)[2]
Trump left office on January 6, 2021. You're saying because he didn't make a kissy-faced phone call to Biden that he was still the President until the 20th?
(Candidate Hillary Clinton made the phone call, and continues to this day to say the election was "stolen" from her!)

I'll grant that conspiracy theories are more prevalent among the Democrats — but that's because, even when they've been debunked, the Dems won't let go! :)
I'm done helping.
You only help me to understand a prominent strain of thought in parts of Europe, regarding U.S. politics and U.S. policy. Somewhat coterminously, regarding the U.S. people and the U.S. government...
C'mon... "Code words"? This is "8/8" level silliness! :)
You're quite gullible: Bet you think the DNC "hacked" computers weren't allowed to undergo forensic examination by the FBI for "security" reasons!
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #12
What makes you think that this "Q" and cohorts aren't Dem social media operatives? :)
Wrong question. The question you need to ask yourself: Even while you deny that you have fallen for Q, why are you exclusively spewing Q talking points in each and every post?

You are beyond help.

Trump left office on January 6, 2021.
Here's Trump making his last speech in White House backyard on January 20, 2021.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPV7sT-O4MQ

You are always wrong about everything. And you're on your own.

Re: Ukraine — the forgotten war

Reply #13
Hm. All the pieces are coming together... :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)