If the Confederates had won.....!

Topic: If the Confederates had won.....! (Read 3967 times)

If the Confederates had won.....!

2018-05-13, 23:59:44

A great man years ago now I took a passing interest in the American Civil War and once mused on what things would have been like if the South had won. Recently I cam across a paperback book on that very subject and was interesting in what could have happened in such a situation. Just a pity the South lost their chance of independence. Was interesting to read.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #1 – 2018-05-14, 00:05:41

Quote from: rjhowie on 2018-05-13, 23:59:44

what things would have been like if the South had won.

A Trump with slaves. Not too much different from the actual Trump.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #2 – 2018-05-14, 20:54:06

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #3 – 2018-05-15, 02:44:51

Quote from: rjhowie on 2018-05-13, 15:59:44

Recently I cam across a paperback book on that very subject and was interesting in what could have happened in such a situation.

As usual, you can't be bothered to mention your sources…
More than a few competent authors have written on the subject.
My favorite remains Harry Turtledove. But many others had interesting takes…

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #4 – 2018-05-15, 07:53:32

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2018-05-15, 02:44:51

Quote from: rjhowie on 2018-05-13, 15:59:44
Recently I cam across a paperback book on that very subject and was interesting in what could have happened in such a situation.
As usual, you can't be bothered to mention your sources…

That's how RJ does sources: It was a paperback book on that very subject and was interesting. When you are a book reader then you run across that paperback book on that very subject and it's interesting. Just like when RJ sees stuff on tv, then it's not a fantasy as the television viewer world knows too well.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #5 – 2018-05-15, 10:35:53

I also came across an interesting paperback book recently. It was about Japanese scientists in Indonesia.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #6 – 2018-05-15, 21:48:22

Be as snooty as you want ersi and treat the subject with some high degree of nonsense. Why you are moaning about not knowing the book on a subect from the 19th century is silly. Anyway to stop you crying..."If the South had Won the CIVIL WAR" by MacKinlay Kantor. (groan

)

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #7 – 2018-05-15, 22:48:28

There are no valuable sources about the EUA. Intellectual honesty is not a value at such place. Being rich is the goal.
Capitalism at it's best.

Other different thing is the American policy of hiring the best intellectual authors from all the world and pay them to produce quality work as if it was produced by the US.
They need to be the world's capital of science and art.

With Trump I believe they've changed priorities...

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #8 – 2018-05-16, 17:43:18

Before we start wandering away fro the Civil War I would still say that it was unfortunate that the 13 Southern States did not win a d in an amusing passing thought that the Confederates had a flag basis which was roughly maybe taken from the Scots saltire one! I dare say in time the North and South would have slowly got on with each other and could have been a much different US of A in the future. A pity for the grey clad what happened.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #9 – 2018-05-17, 03:41:42

Quote from: Belfrager on 2018-05-15, 15:48:28

There are no valuable sources about the EUA.

Common use of the Latin languages' pronunciations passed centuries ago.

Quote from: Belfrager on 2018-05-15, 15:48:28

Other different thing is the American policy of hiring the best intellectual authors from all the world and pay them to produce quality work as if it was produced by the US.

Or, there was a time when smart people got out of Europe. And, they stood to turn a hefty profit at their craft in América.

I mean, unless you wanna source that?

Quote from: Belfrager on 2018-05-15, 15:48:28

Capitalism at it's best.

I feel like you get it, tho.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2018-05-16, 10:43:18

thought that the Confederates had a flag basis which was roughly maybe taken from the Scots saltire one!

Tennessee had quite a few Scots settle here, however, not one of the more enthusiastic southern States. Kentucky's another big one for Scots, up into Indiana and Ohio to a lesser extent. (Turns out us and the bluegrass state have good waters for whiskey.) So it's unlikely the Scottish Flag played much of a role. Although, the stars and bars you think of as a rebel flag was not the Confederate flag as such. That's a bastardized version of a battle flag and was rejected by the CSA. If that battle flag was one of a Scottish regiment, I don't know.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #10 – 2018-05-17, 07:54:00

Quote from: rjhowie on 2018-05-15, 21:48:22

Anyway to stop you crying..."If the South had Won the CIVIL WAR" by MacKinlay Kantor. (groan )

Amazingly it was possible to get you out of your ordinary character and to cite the source. However, quite in character, you do it groaningly.

Anyway, this is the summary of the book Oakdale mentioned, a different book:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYBXrW_5gA[/video]

Edit: Well, I could have said: I saw a video on YT on that very subject and was interesting.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #11 – 2018-05-17, 17:53:35

Load of sophisticated nonsense dear man and is a passing distraction from my theme that I wish the CSA HAD won. As they would have shouted away back then....yee haw.....

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #12 – 2018-05-31, 08:45:17

Quote from: Frenzie on 2018-05-15, 10:35:53

I also came across an interesting paperback book recently. It was about Japanese scientists in Indonesia.

I have the hard copy of that book. A North Korean is working on a documentary on the subject.
I can't wait.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #13 – 2018-05-31, 09:30:36

Quote from: Mr. Tennessee on 2018-05-31, 08:45:17

I have the hard copy of that book. A North Korean is working on a documentary on the subject.
I can't wait.

I was only half-joking. The novel is El imperio de Yegorov by Manuel Moyano.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #14 – 2018-05-31, 20:21:07

Typical of you Mr dodging.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #15 – 2018-06-06, 07:27:39

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2018-05-15, 02:44:51

My favorite remains Harry Turtledove. But many others had interesting takes...

Turtledove is considered a classic, or maybe rather pioneer, in alternative history. Never read, almost certainly never will.

If I had been local, it might be different, but the US doesn't score that high up on civil wars in history. The US civil war is interesting and important mind you, but not enough to gobble up several massive Turtletomes. Maybe HBO could segue from Game of Thrones (War of Roses) to the US Civil war. It would certainly be more exciting if we add more sex and dragons. (Of course this is already in the works.)

Twitter is more my form for history, now I follow the first European civil war, the #Thirty Years War that started here in Prague 400 years and a fortnight ago, with the second defenestration of Prague. It will end May 2048, with the Tweets of Westphalia, assuming Twitter as a platform will last that long.

Scenarios is probably the most productive way of doing alternative histories, and many historians do that. Scenarios are collections of best guesses, both of mechanisms and outcomes. And they are usually short enough that I would read them.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #16 – 2018-06-07, 01:03:10

Doubt if the alternative ones you talk about would have had the same effect in today's world if the grey uniformed folk had won. Sad they didn't.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #17 – 2018-06-07, 05:39:33

The Thirty Years War hadn't happen if the South had won the war?

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #18 – 2018-06-07, 23:40:20

I'll not let you get worried about stretching your grey cells.The world would have had a great chance of being a different place without the damn US of nutjobland trying to run or control it!

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #19 – 2020-03-17, 16:59:24

I’d dread to imagine how this region would have responded to COVID-19 in the scenario presented by RJ.

No doubt they’d say “Pray about it” and that’s it.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #20 – 2020-03-18, 01:02:55

And look how the South suffered after it was done in and the long aftermath of what the US of A become in mass hypocrisy, a joke democracy and widespread negatives. I have just nodded to my picture of the great General Lee............

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #21 – 2023-12-28, 18:58:18

Quote from: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67835961

A voter in New Hampshire on Wednesday asked [the presidential candidate Nikki Haley] what caused the [American Civil] war.

Appearing startled by the question, she did not name slavery in her response.

"I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run. The freedoms and what people could and couldn't do," she said.

Her remarks were quickly criticised by the voter who asked the question. He said that it was "astonishing" that she answered without mentioning the word slavery in the year 2023.

"What do you want me to say about slavery?" Ms Haley responded.

In the minds of Republicans, the Confederates won the American Civil War. Because according to them reality is the current state of their wishful thinking. As a political force, this is not to be underestimated, because due to the two-party system this is half of their political spectrum.

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #22 – 2023-12-29, 13:16:46

Why so many words to say — nothing?

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #23 – 2023-12-29, 19:15:38

Indeed. Nikki Haley added so many self-contradictions and empty words later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGvflDv8_Dc

Re: If the Confederates had won.....!

Reply #24 – 2024-01-06, 10:16:28

Just to give you another chance to deprecate Americans, I'll note that "States Rights" was routinely touted as the main bone of contention in school history classes in the '60s... But -since President Lincoln essentially pardoned him, Jeff Davis -the president of the confederacy- was able to write a book explaining what he, his government, and its movement was about: He made it plain.
The preservation of black slavery was it.