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Topic: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense (Read 4795 times)

Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Removing statues going back to the Civil War and going bananas over the old Confederacy times is utterly ridiculous to the point of damnable fact levels. May i
I remind the people who are doing the removals and being so nonsensical what the facts wer on this and the contradictions from the USA would-be leaders.

Firstly that George Washington was a slavery owner. He inherited  10 from his father's estate and by the time he died he had123 - over ten times!
That other so-called wonderful man, Jefferson owned slaves and damn well went onto father children from 3 of them.
 Theodore Roosevelt was portrayed by Obama as a great principled hero. Oh yea? That hero said this "I don't go as far as to think the only good Indians are the dead but I believe nine out of ten are."

Even that Lincoln was a damnable hypocrite. he was at one point content to retain the Southern States and where slavery existed and may have been due to the situation that before the civil war the South contributed well to the tax income of DC.. So the poppycock that the Civil Wars was all about slavery is pathetic. Even during that war the USA kept black soldiers away from their white ones and it took a long time for them even to get basic things. So maybe if removing statues including a principled man like R. E. Lee, etc should include two faces like Washington and Lincoln.  Utter nonsense what is going on over there.  We know that groups like the KKK and other small lots are not right on the far right but neither are the far lets who went on the rampage over the Presidential Election attacking and destroying shops and such.

Slavery would have been eventually done away with but when you consider the hypocrisy of leading lights in the USA history black people did little better after that sad time in the 1860's.  Oh and a passing point on Lee and that is he was a principled man of some principle and he was not in the same light as Washington, Lincoln or Roosevelt types and others.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #1 –
The reason my submission is read and silence is that it is not just near the truth but is!

Most of the young in the world in relation to 1861 will tell you it was all about slavery which is a load of tosh. Repeatedly that two-faced mouth who has a statue sitting on a seat was an arch hypocrite.  Indeed at one point Lincoln indicated his unconcern and i would say that the Civil War was more about taxation and control.  Robert E. Lee was a highly intelligent and principled man of the time and he got rid of slaves did the mouths I mentioned who were the heroes of the country in that corner? no they damn well were not!

A passing issue is that although president Trump is a question mark of a man he was very right when he made his comments about what statutes are next including the corner I mention!  So those who regard themselves as principled cannot face this question i have raised as it is the truth and makes it to be fair a difficult one for them.  :(
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #2 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
The reason my submission is read and silence is that it is not just near the truth but is!
You knee-jerk react to what you see on telly without links or references. Everybody has a different telly, so you have to provide links and references. Not much reason to reply to unhinged rants. As it is, you come across like Trump when he said, "Look what happened in Sweden. Who would have thought it, Sweden!" without telling what happened and when - namely, in that week nothing happened...

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #3 –
Quote from: ersi on
As it is, you come across like Trump when he said, "Look what happened in Sweden. Who would have thought it, Sweden!" without telling what happened and when - namely, in that week nothing happened...
Something happened in America, so that's a bit unfair. :P

Anyway, I've noticed that I've started tuning out about half the news because it can be summarized thus: "Trump tweeted something stupid again, NO W8 OMIGOSH HE ACTUALLY SAID SOMETHING STUPID IN A SPEECH THIS TIME and ISIS was driven back a little further."

I'll admit to reading an article in Der Spiegel about Bannon leaving the Trump administration, I suppose.

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #5 –
Firstly ersi you are not making yourself look very intelligent. Why the damn heck should I need to quote something like a tv programme or whatever??

Washington - Jefferson - Lincoln were all slave owners and a historical fact so don't look silly. Roosevelt is part of the detrimental history and all FACTS. The patter we get is that it was solely slavery that masterminded the Civil War but it wasn't when you consider the hypocrisy of the rest of the US outside of what had become the Confederacy. Lincoln was not interested in giving wide freedom to Negroes and made it obvious he would go along with slavery if need be. Economics were very much part of the split as the North was going industrial and the South more agricultural so economics part of it. Do try and be historically grown up dear man instead of falling back on a rather immature and nonsensical stance.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #7 –
The Southerners Confederates are a vital part of the USA.
These whitewashing idiots, fighting a statue, what are they suppose to do with all the Confederate victories? turn it into defeats?

Identity racism is turning into a major problem affecting societies and not only the American one.

A matter of attitude.

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #8 –
Well the hypocrisy is greatest over there dear man and part of their fanatical aim to be top of everything!. In the two World Wars white and black units were kept separate from each other so shows how deep the problem has been.  Just a pity the Confederacy did not have the money of the rest of nutjobland  and be independent and make a big difference to US imperialism in the world.  :up:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

The wall

Reply #9 –
The Southerner wall would still be the same.
Perhaps then they would have to build a Northerner wall too. :yes:

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Barulheira on
Perhaps then they would have to build a Northerner wall too.
That wall always existed , exists and will ever exist. It's a perfect wall with no material existence so Northerners can't demolish it.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #11 –
Uh?

The statue thing is neatly avoided in this item here as it is too near the practical truth in USA history. Economics was a big thing in the 1861 war and the hard truth is that many in the rest of the country the would-be "North" were taken in by the slavery thing. Was a touch hypocritical too when you consider how Negroes were treated din the US Army in the Civil War and slavery was hardly a total thing in the South either as it happens. When one considers all those would-be heroes of democracy and freedom I listed it is a farcical history. Lincoln did not care a real dam about the black corner and was prepared to do a dance.  Lee got rid of  slaves but the founder of the great USA did not nor did the leading constituence writer or others. As I have reminded as well that during World War 2 the army of the United States officially had a segregated service and part of the fight against the racism of the Nazis. Farcical. My other reference to the shock of white US troops going to dances in GB during WW2 and seeing local girls dancing with black soldiers.

So right from the birth of the great ol US of A the double standard was painfully obvious.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Us and them

Reply #12 –
There's a reason why their country is called US, while all the others are called THEM. :sherlock:

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #13 –
It seems that their US is soon to become a lot of Them.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #14 –
Well it is in such a damn state and been delayed getting to that point. Could it be worse if a real democracy??  :rolleyes:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #16 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
So the poppycock that the Civil Wars was all about slavery is pathetic.
I'd ask you to read Jeff Davis' book, which he published after Lincoln decided not to hang him for treason…
But on a lighter note: There are now calls for removing Nelson's statue from Trafalgar Square!
You, RJ, later said: "
Quote from: rjhowie on
Most of the young in the world in relation to 1861 will tell you it was all about slavery which is a load of tosh.
Of  course, the President of the Confederacy didn't know as much as you! :) (You could also read -ahem! I know you will not and likely cannot- the Confederate Constitution…
You're not as old as you pretend, RJ; you're just an ignorant, prejudiced individual who refuses to learn.

As you said:
Quote from: rjhowie on
Could it be worse if a real democracy??
Yes: We could become Howie's Scotland! :)

The main cause of our civil war was the issue of slavery. The "corporates" that you usually decry were the ten-percent of the Southern Aristocracy (and their British enablers, who didn't want to have to deal with New England's industrial prowess… :) ); and they plunged our nation into war, for their own benefit.
A pure democracy knows no morality. It at best accepts plurality.

BTW: I'm opposed to removing Nelson's statue: Without his revamping of the British navy, GB's interdiction of the slave trade would have been impossible!
He likely didn't intend that. But I'm a conservative: Consequences matter more than intentions…
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #17 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on
The main cause of our civil war was the issue of slavery.
Wrong, very wrong.
Slavery had nothing to do with your civil war, northerner's major figures having a lot of slaves.
Culture, economics and alliances were your divider, nothing else. Evoking slavery is simple history whitewashing.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
Wrong, very wrong.
You're as ignorant as RJ, Bel… Maybe Scotland should be re-admitted (…against their "wide" democracy's wishes!) to the EU? :) )
Are you seriously arguing that the president of the Confederacy and the published Confederate Constitution got it wrong?!

Show me your OIJIA board videos! You believe in ghosts; but you're more attracted to ghouls.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #19 –
Baloney OakdaleFTL..

Firstly on Admiral Nelson's statue here there is no "great campaign" for his removal and was stirred by a coloured lefty woman writing in that lefty newspaper the Guardian. You desperately try to do a dance away from the truth about your own supposed heroes.

As for your Civil War you get a dig in about Southern wealthy people  as a dance away from the wide corporates of the North and you drag in the usual stuff about slavery being the issue. Slavery was only a part issue and the rest of the USA has absolutely nothing to boast about regarding fairness to the black corner.  You studiously and totally ignored my reminder of the wonderful great principled George Washington who increased his slaves by ten times plus the brains behind your Constitution being another black persecutor with slaves and of course your wonderful principled lying guy, Lincoln. He was quite prepared to go with slavery to keep States in the union and he was also at house parties admitting that he did not want to see Negroes having to wide a freedom in the USA. Many slaves were also imported into the nation at northern points as well when they managed to get free and go north they when joining the army of the great republic got no boots or any encouragement as the control of them was important.

So you rather make a head shake in doing a dance when i remind you of the 3 "great" historical figures in America plus my other comment about Obama praising another hypocrite. face what I intimated on the wonderfully principled men who were hypocrites.  Trying facing the challenge instead of drifting away or trying to distract from factuals and decrying truths.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #20 –
I look forward to the day when these so-asserted "social justice warriors" demand that the American Adolf Hitler, Andrew Jackson, be also removed from the public eye. One would think that the genocide of my ancestors (Cherokee) would warrant an almighty call to destroy and and rename all statues and parks named after that bastard, yet curiously enough, the BLM and antifa bunch remain quiet about that no-good son of a bitch.

Of course that won't happen, as the whole damn lot of them are outstanding hypocrites, but should it happen, I'd have less of a problem with what's currently going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FfgkAmCgl0

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #21 –
Excellent music there Colonel Rebel and makes my night as I listened to it under my picture on the wall of the principled General Robert E. Lee a man more high than much of the military in the "North" of the land in the Civil War. His soldiers loved the man to bits. I made it plain that slavery was not the wrapped up cause at all (as Belfrager has now followed up!). Can I also remind our Portuguese friend that I gave an indication of would be  "great US politicos" that were utter hypocrites and it was money, taxes etc that should be noted.  The people I mentioned in the creation of the US, it's constitution, etc and that two-faced Lincoln were a disgrace.  makes one wonder if a lot of Yanks knew that Washington and others were slave owner! It is just a pity that the Confederacy did not have the wealth of the North or the size to remain independent. 

As for OakdaleFTL he is an average Yank and means will know little.

ps. Going to play Dixie again...... :happy:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Frenzie on
Anyway, I've noticed that I've started tuning out about half the news because it can be summarized thus: "Trump tweeted something stupid again, NO W8 OMIGOSH HE ACTUALLY SAID SOMETHING STUPID IN A SPEECH THIS TIME and ISIS was driven back a little further."

News these days (leaving aside decorative sections like sports, architecture, or entertainment) seem to come in Domestic, International, and Twitter. "Somebody said, replied or (dis)liked something on Twitter" is a useless form of intermediation, and has led to useless people getting political power.

As a rule I don't allow myself to be distracted by Trump's tweets more than 5 minutes a day at the most (lately extending that to Trump himself).

On the other hand, I have long ago learned to pay attention to speeches. Immediately a politician's speech seems a waste of time and serviceable air. Why listen to what they say, instead of watching what they do? However they are actually telling, bit like the arch-villain's speech to the captured hero about his plans for world domination, and the bureaucracy also listen to the speeches and act on them.

Trump's speeches? Harder to tell. At his level of self-contradiction, a speech is probably only valid until the next, but I would still give his speeches a higher precedence than his tweets.

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #23 –
Speaking of speeches, I came across this half-year old article (back when Bannon was "Chief Strategist"),

Papal allies attack Bannon’s ‘apocalyptic’ vision


Quote
But what seemed to trouble Fr Spadaro and Fr Figueroa even more was the embrace by many Catholics of the “stigmatisation of enemies who are often demonised”. 

“The panorama of threats to their understanding of the American way of life have included modernist spirits, the black civil rights movement, the hippy movement, communism, feminist movements and so on. And now in our day there are the migrants and the Muslims,” the article said, adding that they were putting the “conquering and defence of the promised land” above the “incisive look, full of love, of Jesus in the Gospel”.

Related article How the Bible Belt lost God and found Trump
 
“The political strategy for success becomes that of raising the tones of the conflictual, exaggerating disorder, agitating the souls of the people by painting worrying scenarios beyond any realism,” it added. On the other hand, Pope Francis was “carrying forward a systematic counter-narration with respect to the narrative of fear” due to the “need to fight the manipulation of this season of anxiety and insecurity”. 

Some conservative Catholics were outraged by the piece. “Due to its unprecedented nature, and the direct attack it makes on the United States, its current administration, American Evangelicals, Conservative Catholics in the United States (and Europe and Africa, concerned with the rise of Islamism) . . . the article's over-reach is nothing if not breathtaking,” wrote Rorate Caeli, a conservative Catholic blog. 

Re: Statue farce in the ex-colonies and sheer hypocrisy nonsense

Reply #24 –
Quote from: jax on
Trump's speeches? Harder to tell. At his level of self-contradiction, a speech is probably only valid until the next, but I would still give his speeches a higher precedence than his tweets.
Trump's speeches somehow sound like extended tweets to me. He has an interesting prosody, almost like he's reciting poetry. Or perhaps it's more like pop music. He seems to have a few classics that the audience likes to sing along with.