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Poll

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Yes.
[ 8 ] (57.1%)
No.
[ 6 ] (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Topic: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time (Read 97382 times)

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #51
A Question to you two. There are many Scots living in the rest of the UK. They do not have a vote.

Why?

Well the obvious answer is you have to be living in Scotland and on the voting register in Scotland to be eligible to vote in Scotland and if your not then you don't get a vote.
I'm sure it goes deeper than that though. I do recall reading somewhere that it's in the Edinburgh agreement, so agreed by both sides. Can't back that up with a link though as I can't remember where I read it.
Is it any sort of issue in the election?

It shouldn't be. If you or I were living in France we wouldn't get to vote in any UK referendum. My sister and her hubby live in London so don't qualify for a vote and they are OK with it. 2 yes votes less, but there you go. 
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #52
The Ed agreement left the details to the government of Scotland, so it was the SNP's decision.

I don't see a justifiable reason. There's some sort of legal challenge going on, I understand.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #53
The Ed agreement left the details to the government of Scotland, so it was the SNP's decision.

That's true, but both sides agreed to it before signing it.

I don't see a justifiable reason.

Well if you don't live in a country why should you get to vote on who rules them? Seems quite logical to me. 

There's some sort of legal challenge going on, I understand.

Read about that somewhere, can't see it going anywhere though. It would only make a few rich lawyers a bit richer anyway.
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #54
Just for giggles, I'd like to see Scotland become independent. If for no other reason than to see RJHowie go nuclear. It would be worth the price of admission to see that.

About the 51st State thing: By a very strange coincidence, that could happen. By an even stranger coincidence, it's Jimbro, our resident Michigander, who mentions the 51st State.

See, it's like this: There is a sentiment in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to secede from the Lower Peninsula and become a state in its own right. Many UP'ers don't think Lansing operates in their best interest, since many of the people in Lansing (Michigan's state capital for you out-of-towners) are Lower Peninsula residents. So, the U.P. would secede, form its own state government and try to get acceptance into the union as the 51st state. Now you know.

Jimbro is a resident of the Lower Peninsula, again for you out-of-towners who might not have looked up Grand Rapids to find out where in bloody thunder it is.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #55

The Ed agreement left the details to the government of Scotland, so it was the SNP's decision.

That's true, but both sides agreed to it before signing it.

I don't see a justifiable reason.

Well if you don't live in a country why should you get to vote on who rules them? Seems quite logical to me. 

There's some sort of legal challenge going on, I understand.

Read about that somewhere, can't see it going anywhere though. It would only make a few rich lawyers a bit richer anyway.

As I mentioned before, It was agreed that the Scottish Government (aka the SNP) would define the detail, which, for those interested is explained here. I don't know if the list is exhaustive.

I dislike the whole concept of disenfranchising nationals who are living abroad at the time of an election or referendum, having suffered that myself for over 30 years even though it was always my intention to return to the country of my birth. But that aside how can one possibly justify the barring of genuine Scottish nationals who are actually living in the same country (the UK) while allowing, for example, nationals of Ireland and the EU who are living in Scotland; people who have only a passing interest in Scotland or the UK. It beggars belief but I suppose is according to the same train of thought that lowered the voting age to gain some advantage to the SNP cause.

If I were voting in Scotland I would certainly not vote Yes, the SNP offers an empty plate towards mediocrity.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #56
@mjm - it's not really a situation where giggling is appropriate.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #57

@mjm - it's not really a situation where giggling is appropriate.


For a truth-- the only reason I can think in favor of it would be to watch RJH go nuclear the following morning. Otherwise: I have a suspicion that a "Yes" vote would be tragic for the nation as a whole. I wonder, if after all the patriotic fervor dies down, the SNP has an idea what it really takes to get a new nation on its feet.

The newly-minted United States was sort of clueless about these things back in the day too, but three thousand miles of ocean and the time it takes a sailing ship to cross it gave men time to think and figure out what had to be done. I don't know if Scotland has any such "advantage" at its disposal.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #58

Just for giggles, I'd like to see Scotland become independent. If for no other reason than to see RJHowie go nuclear. It would be worth the price of admission to see that.

About the 51st State thing: By a very strange coincidence, that could happen. By an even stranger coincidence, it's Jimbro, our resident Michigander, who mentions the 51st State.
================================
See, it's like this: There is a sentiment in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to secede from the Lower Peninsula and become a state in its own right.

Jimbro is a resident of the Lower Peninsula, again for you out-of-towners who might not have looked up Grand Rapids to find out where in bloody thunder it is.
I think that they should become a separate country, loosely affiliated with Scotland.
For a larger view of secession, see
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/10/24/240497465/take-this-state-and-shove-it-the-new-secession-movement

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #59
As I mentioned before, It was agreed that the Scottish Government (aka the SNP) would define the detail, which, for those interested is explained here. I don't know if the list is exhaustive.

Wish I could remember where I read the explanation string, been looking, but it means having to wade through all the bile that some folk seem to relish in posting. So I've given up. From memory (not the most dependable in the best of circumstances) it's something to do with the devolution referendum and the precedent was set then on who can or cannot take part in Scottish elections. Best I can give you I'm afraid, unless I'm lucky enough to stumble upon it unintentionally.
But that aside how can one possibly justify the barring of genuine Scottish nationals who are actually living in the same country (the UK) while allowing, for example, nationals of Ireland and the EU who are living in Scotland;

If they feel strongly about it they can always come and live here. I don't see it as a problem myself, if I didn't live here I wouldn't expect to be able to vote. We could be having a referendum here on whether or not to stay in Europe, we can't expect people living in the rest of Europe to be given a vote in that referendum.

I suppose is according to the same train of thought that lowered the voting age to gain some advantage to the SNP cause.

In fairness in you are an adult at 16 in Scotland, so they should have a vote in all elections. It is their future more than most, so that's fair. Besides all the parties are for it.
If I were voting in Scotland I would certainly not vote Yes

Which would be your right.
the SNP offers an empty plate towards mediocrity

Mediocrity or Tories in westminster.... tough choice.
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #60
I wonder, if after all the patriotic fervor dies down, the SNP has an idea what it really takes to get a new nation on its feet.


A 'New' Nation? ........................ What size of a Nation are we talking about?

It's smaller in size (sq.miles) than South Carolina,


& with only about 5.3 million people it's just as populated as Colorado.

The task of running this 'new' Nation wouldn't be all that difficult........

Scotland is basically a functional, self-governed entity already  ..... IIRC.

IMHO .... Not too much of a step up really.

If nothing else, less red tape & much fewer levels of regulation to deal with I would think.

Currency, on the other hand, might need a bit of restructuring. Scotland produces it's own bank notes, but will they still be accepted as unofficial legal tender as they are today in almost all of Britain?.....I would have to think probably not.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #61
Luxor comes out with this guff that I am in an uproar because it suits him to bodyswerve the obvious. The printing of that white book was a damn waste of time. The lack of respnse to it is prlific. Salond picks the parts of cociety he wants to cultivate. Not just the old RC working class vote (and I have explaind why rather than he admit it) but the Pakistanis in south Glasgow who even did a fundraiser for him one year! So a neat cover up fon which groups in society to go after for devious reasons. Now they throw in as I pointed out a move on Labourites. In many areas the Nationalist are not as great in support and they know it. They also have only 6 MP's our of the 59 in Scotland which tells you something of the protest vote at Edinburgh levels. Surprisingly enough for Luxor who like Salmond tries to goad the Tory side they get around 400,000 votes in Scotland although more spread out.

The SNP for all their going wild do not always match up to the bawling and shouting. I receall the big slogan "Free in '83." Damp squid. Then in 2013 beacuse there was a small split in the Labour controlled Glasgow they were going cock-a- hoop they would sweep the city.They didn't. Across Scotland I also stated councils formed coalitions to keep them out! Six MP's out of 59?! Most if it is some long emotional thingy and the SNP tends to lean on a subtle strategy that you have to be of their camp to be true Scots. When that began to bite back in the media then they quietly tried to distance from it. However that undercurrent is still there. If you are a Scots Labour LibDem, Toru you are almost to be pitied by a mob who think the saltires is now especially theirs! Oh, I enjoy the to and fro where as the dismal Jimmy here takes himself too seriously. The day after the Referendum I will lift a toast to him in generosity so work that one out folks!  :devil: :lol:

ps. Spot on mjsmsprt40. Butler send a case of Irn Bru to the Chicago man.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #62
Can I say SmileFaze there are at present Scottish banknotes issued by the Royal Nak of Scotland, Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale but they are all in tune with the UK currency. An independent Scotland will not be part of the British currency situation although the nationalists want it so and the Bank of england which would control their economy! It is all about cake and eat it stuff. You are either separate or not and shows a fundemental flaw in the thinking!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #63


ps. Spot on mjsmsprt40. Butler send a case of Irn Bru to the Chicago man.

I have heard of a case of smallpox and I have heard of a case of syphilis and I have heard of a case of acne.
But Irn Bru? is it contagious?


Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #65



ps. Spot on mjsmsprt40. Butler send a case of Irn Bru to the Chicago man.

I have heard of a case of smallpox and I have heard of a case of syphilis and I have heard of a case of acne.
But Irn Bru? is it contagious?


It might be if you're into soft drinks. I confess that I used to drink way too much Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola, these days I stay away from it like the plague. I don't know about Irn Bru, never tried it because it's not readily available here. A case of it might sit awhile, or it might disappear-- can't tell until I do try it.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #66
Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola

Coca Cola it's good for curing hangovers. Pepsi not so.
For some reason Pepsi disappeared from the market here.

As for Scotland they have good products for creating hangovers but only if you mix. Don't, and you'll be safe.
A matter of attitude.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #67
Luxor comes out with this guff that I am in an uproar because it suits him to bodyswerve the obvious.

The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #68
 I don't think his are smilies. I guess he uses a web-camera for self-portraying actual emotions.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #69




ps. Spot on mjsmsprt40. Butler send a case of Irn Bru to the Chicago man.

I have heard of a case of smallpox and I have heard of a case of syphilis and I have heard of a case of acne.
But Irn Bru? is it contagious?


It might be if you're into soft drinks. I confess that I used to drink way too much Coca Cola and Pepsi Cola, these days I stay away from it like the plague. I don't know about Irn Bru, never tried it because it's not readily available here. A case of it might sit awhile, or it might disappear-- can't tell until I do try it.

Can confirm that regular Irn Bru is ok, but will give you diabetes if one drinks them regularly (or at least that was my impression after trying one).

Diet Irn Bru kind of reminded me of Coke Zero, without the Coke taste of course. Kind of "meh".

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #70
I don't drink much really in soft drinks since being diagnosed Diabetic 10 years ago (thankfully only class 2). When I do have Irn Bru always have the sugarless version.  As for Coke very rarely drink it but pref Pepsi (die of course). For thos trying to sober up from too much Scotch I would recommend watching Alex Salmond trying to be nice and thoughtful.  ::)
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #71
This may or may not belong in this thread, depending on your point of view, but in a way I think one should see that it is somehow related.

[glow=blue,2,300]Britain used to be a club with four members, now it has only one - England.[/glow]

                                              

Quote from:      http://happystgeorgesday.blogspot.com.au/      

Ask a Scotsman his nationality and he will say "Scottish", ask a Welshman and he will say "Welsh" - only an Englishman might say "British".

It's becoming increasingly clear that the Union between England, Scotland and Wales is coming to an end. The English need to stop viewing Scotland and Wales as their children; not yet fully grown and in need of our guidance, protection and large sums of pocket money.

Scotland and Wales are adults now, they have their own identity and are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves (but after they leave home we are not taking them back).

Personally, I will still stand on Remembrance Day in a minutes silence for all the brave Scottish, Welsh and Irish soldiers who are far better than me and laid down their lives to protect this island. But I also think it's time for us to part as friends.

The vote on Scottish independence is coming soon. I think we already know the result. Soon after that will be Wales.

So what does this all mean for St. George's Day?

The English have been programmed to think of themselves as British, encouraged to suppress their 'Englishness'. But after Scottish independence 'British' will cease to exist, and people in England will ask themselves "If I'm not British, what am I?"


Will being British finally be a thing of the past?

Are the Scots drawing first blood, or are they putting the final nail in the coffin?

What do you think?

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #72

This may or may not belong in this thread, depending on your point of view, but in a way I think one should see that it is somehow related.

[glow=blue,2,300]Britain used to be a club with four members, now it has only one - England.[/glow]

                                              

Quote from:      http://happystgeorgesday.blogspot.com.au/      

Ask a Scotsman his nationality and he will say "Scottish", ask a Welshman and he will say "Welsh" - only an Englishman might say "British".

It's becoming increasingly clear that the Union between England, Scotland and Wales is coming to an end. The English need to stop viewing Scotland and Wales as their children; not yet fully grown and in need of our guidance, protection and large sums of pocket money.

Scotland and Wales are adults now, they have their own identity and are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves (but after they leave home we are not taking them back).

Personally, I will still stand on Remembrance Day in a minutes silence for all the brave Scottish, Welsh and Irish soldiers who are far better than me and laid down their lives to protect this island. But I also think it's time for us to part as friends.

The vote on Scottish independence is coming soon. I think we already know the result. Soon after that will be Wales.

So what does this all mean for St. George's Day?

The English have been programmed to think of themselves as British, encouraged to suppress their 'Englishness'. But after Scottish independence 'British' will cease to exist, and people in England will ask themselves "If I'm not British, what am I?"


Will being British finally be a thing of the past?

Are the Scots drawing first blood, or are they putting the final nail in the coffin?

What do you think?

I still do not think that Scotland will actually vote to leave their current union. They are more than capable of doing so, mind you, but I don't think they'll vote to leave.

N. Ireland will be the first to leave, methinks, and I really don't see that happening for another 10-25 years.

Of course, the the same arguments Scotland is using could be used by various US states as a reason to leave our current (forced) Union.
California, Texas, Florida, Washington state, New York state, and Massachusetts all could probably stand on their own two feet if they parted ways with the US federal gov't.

For the record, although I am currently not in favor of any secession in the US, Texas v. White (1869) is still a load of hot garbage, added on per an emotional reaction following the Civil War. The Constitution simply DOES NOT PROHIBIT and desired secession of a state. Where on earth those jackasses found that it did, I'd sure like to know.

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #73
I still do not think that Scotland will actually vote to leave their current union.


Well, up front I don't have a dog in that hunt.

That said, when I was last in the general vicinity of the British Isles, 2 of the people I spoke to at length -- who do have -- who do have a vested interest in the outcome -- they both independently said it wouldn't even be close. One said it would be 60% for, & the other indicated upwards of 70% for. 

Either way, I think that the Scots will be firmly in the drivers seat in determining their own sovereign future. 

As far as that Texas v White case, as I recall -- & it's way back there -- it was about who owed who some money & not a right to secession thing? No?

Re: The Great DnD Vote of Our Time

Reply #74

I still do not think that Scotland will actually vote to leave their current union.


Well, up front I don't have a dog in that hunt.

That said, when I was last in the general vicinity of the British Isles, 2 of the people I spoke to at length -- who do have -- who do have a vested interest in the outcome -- they both independently said it wouldn't even be close. One said it would be 60% for, & the other indicated upwards of 70% for. 

Either way, I think that the Scots will be firmly in the drivers seat in determining their own sovereign future. 

As far as that Texas v White case, as I recall -- & it's way back there -- it was about who owed who some money & not a right to secession thing? No?

It started as a money issue, yes, but the question of secession was also answered.

http://www.oyez.org/cases/1851-1900/1868/1868_0

"n a 5-to-3 decision, the Court held that Texas did indeed have the right to bring suit and that individuals such as White had no claim to the bonds in question. The Court held that individual states could not unilaterally secede from the Union and that the acts of the insurgent Texas legislature--even if ratified by a majority of Texans--were "absolutely null." Even during the period of rebellion, however, the Court found that Texas continued to be a state.