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Topic: What's going on in Italy? (Read 12919 times)

What's going on in Italy?

Venetians voting for Independence from Rome, that's what.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/venices-secession-from-italy-hans-hermann-hoppe-and-nation-states/

"With an 89 percent majority, the voters of Venice have elected to leave Italy. In practice, what this really means is that the Venetians plan to no longer send tax revenues to Rome. Apparently, the Venetians, who inhabit the historical capital of one of humanity’s richest and most successful republics, wish to no longer subsidize the famously-corrupt bureaucrats in Rome. Southern Italy has long been regarded by the richer, cleaner, and more efficient North as a drain on their resources. According to the Daily Mail, at least, there is talk of extending the secession movement to other areas of the North as well.

Campaigner Paolo Bernardini, professor of European history at the University of Insubria in Como, northern Italy, said it was ‘high time’ for Venice to become an autonomous state once again.

‘Although history never repeats itself, we are now experiencing a strong return of little nations, small and prosperous countries, able to interact among each other in the global world.’

‘The Venetian people realized that we are a nation (worthy of) self-rule and openly oppressed, and the entire world is moving towards fragmentation – a positive fragmentation – where local traditions mingle with global exchanges.’

Naturally, the large nation-states of Europe hate and fear developments like this. But for anyone who can remember history, there’s little “tradition” here that the nation-states can lay claim to. Italy is a made-up country, much like Germany, hammered together in the 19th century by powerful authoritarian politicians like Otto von Bismarck who of course hated classical liberalism and capitalism with every fiber of his being.

It will be interesting to see what Rome does. Will they send an army to take their tax money? Perhaps they’ll just wage some sort of campaign of hate against the Venetians, appealing to Italian patriotism. Given that Obama recently declared all secession movements illegitimate (except those supported by the US Government, of course) it’s unknown how much support Venice can expect from the international community.

In a 2004 interview, Hans-Hermann Hoppe spoke on the advantages of small independent (and wealthier) countries:

To the contrary, the greatest hope for liberty comes from the small countries: from Monaco, Andorra, Liechtenstein, even Switzerland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Bermuda, etc.; and as a liberal one should hope for a world of tens of thousands of such small independent entities. Why not a free independent city of Istanbul and Izmir, which maintain friendly relations with the central Turkish government, but which no longer make tax payments to the latter nor receive any payments from it, and which no longer recognize central government law but have their own Istanbul law or Izmir law.


The apologists of the central state (and of superstates such as the EU) claim that such a proliferation of independent political units would lead to economic disintegration and impoverishment. However, not only does empirical evidence speak sharply against this claim: the above-mentioned small countries are all wealthier than their surroundings. Moreover, theoretical reflection also shows that this claim is just another statist myth.

Small governments have many close competitors. If they tax and regulate their own subjects visibly more than their competitors, they are bound to suffer from the emigration of labor and capital. Moreover, the smaller the country, the greater will be the pressure to opt for free trade rather than protectionism. Every government interference with foreign trade leads to relative impoverishment, at home as well as abroad. But the smaller a territory and its internal markets, the more dramatic this effect will be.

If the U.S. engaged in protectionism, U.S. average living standards would fall, but no one would starve. If a single city, say Monaco, did the same, there would be almost immediate starvation. Consider a single household as the conceivably smallest secessionist unit. By engaging in unrestricted free trade, even the smallest territory can be fully integrated in the world market and partake of every advantage of the division of labor. Indeed, its owners may become the wealthiest people on earth. On the other hand, if the same household owners decided to forego all inter-territorial trade, abject poverty or death would result. Accordingly, the smaller the territory and its internal market, the more likely it is that it will opt for free trade.

Moreover, as I can only indicate but not explain here, secession also promotes monetary integration and would lead to the replacement of the present monetary system of fluctuating national paper currencies with a commodity money standard entirely outside of government control. In sum, the world would be one of small liberal governments economically integrated through free trade and an international commodity money such as gold. It would be a world of unheard of prosperity, economic growth, and cultural advancement."

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #2 –
I suspect that this thread will go viral in short order.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERD4CbBDNI0[/video]

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #3 –
This is a warped item. It has to be made clear here that the "referendum" was not official or sanctioned.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: rjhowie on

This is a warped item. It has to be made clear here that the "referendum" was not official or sanctioned.

To be fair, even if you lot in Scotland vote for Independence by a majority, London may not let you all go regardless.  :left:

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #5 –
Colonel Rebel, jaybro, rjhowie and josh...
I wonder how many of you have ever been in Italy...
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

Colonel Rebel, jaybro, rjhowie and josh...
I wonder how many of you have ever been in Italy...

I had intended to visit Rome and Vatican City whilst I studying in the UK in 2011, however, I was unable to do so. I do plan on some sort of vacation at some point this year, so......     :D

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

Colonel Rebel, jaybro, rjhowie and josh...
I wonder how many of you have ever been in Italy...
I've been to Grand Rapids and Grand Rapids and Grand Rapids and other places that you've never visited.

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Ryan McMaken
powerful authoritarian politicians like Otto von Bismarck who of course hated classical liberalism and capitalism with every fiber of his being.

Of course? Calling Bismarck a socialist is as silly as calling Obama a socialist.

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Quote from: Colonel Rebel on
powerful authoritarian politicians like Otto von Bismarck who of course hated classical liberalism and capitalism with every fiber of his being.

Of course? Calling Bismarck a socialist is as silly as calling Obama a socialist.

He started more or less universal healthcare in Germany, therefore according to the teabaggers he's a dirty communist and a nazi.

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Macallan on
He started more or less universal healthcare in Germany, therefore according to the teabaggers he's a dirty communist and a nazi.

Americans are funny, the things they put together.

There's a "small" difference between communists, socialists, social-democrats, Christian-democrats , national-socialists and fascists.
Not to speak about anarchists, trotskists, maoists and other "ists".
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

Quote from: Macallan on
He started more or less universal healthcare in Germany, therefore according to the teabaggers he's a dirty communist and a nazi.

Americans are funny, the things they put together.

There's a "small" difference between communists, socialists, social-democrats, Christian-democrats , national-socialists and fascists.
Not to speak about anarchists, trotskists, maoists and other "ists".

@Mac: Shall I tell him, or will you? :right:

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

Quote from: Macallan on
He started more or less universal healthcare in Germany, therefore according to the teabaggers he's a dirty communist and a nazi.

Americans are funny, the things they put together.

There's a "small" difference between communists, socialists, social-democrats, Christian-democrats , national-socialists and fascists.
Not to speak about anarchists, trotskists, maoists and other "ists".

Most of the teabaggers don't have a clue what any of those words mean. Seriously, I wish I was kidding. Doesn't stop them from throwing them at anything they don't like ( well, except 'christian' ).

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #15 –
I understand Southern laddie that being foreign you might not understand the way our political system works but that is a kind of daft think to say about the Scottish Referendum. My reason for my comment is that it IS OFFICIAL. The British Parliament endorsed the Scottish Referendum as did the Edinburgh parliament so there is no comparison with Venice, etc. So our is offical and the sinking city's isn't.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #16 –
The bigger the central government, the more apt that that government can be corrupted.

Don't believe me, look at Washington  D.C.  (District of Chicago)

That should be proof positive.

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Macallan on
Most of the teabaggers don't have a clue what any of those words mean. Seriously, I wish I was kidding. Doesn't stop them from throwing them at anything they don't like ( well, except 'christian' ).

I would be very surprised if they would ever know what Christian Democracy means.
It applies to teabaggers, republicans and democrats.

Whatever, there's no patience for total political illiteracy.
A matter of attitude.

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: rjhowie on

I understand Southern laddie that being foreign you might not understand the way our political system works but that is a kind of daft think to say about the Scottish Referendum. My reason for my comment is that it IS OFFICIAL. The British Parliament endorsed the Scottish Referendum as did the Edinburgh parliament so there is no comparison with Venice, etc. So our is offical and the sinking city's isn't.

Indeed it (Scotland's vote) is official; I never said it was not.

I merely stated that if your lot voted for independence, Whitehall does not have to grant it to you all.

Come now old fella; reading comprehension for once in your life please!  :sherlock:

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #23 –
You are still trying to stretch out an inaccuracy to prove some invalid point lad. The Westminster parliament voted for Scotland to have the Referendum and it has been made clear it will accept the outcome.  Had the UK parliament voted against the move that would have been it. Indeed the Prime Minister has openly stated so just to help enlighten you a wee bitty further. You see we are a democracy and the wonky political system you have to be stuck with is not a positive basic for the point. So come on youngie and wise up. Only too glad to widen your youthful knowledge.

ps As for auld yins you are a supporter of a senator who is an oldie........
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: What's going on in Italy?

Reply #24 –
Quote from: rjhowie on

You are still trying to stretch out an inaccuracy to prove some invalid point lad. The Westminster parliament voted for Scotland to have the Referendum and it has been made clear it will accept the outcome.  Had the UK parliament voted against the move that would have been it. Indeed the Prime Minister has openly stated so just to help enlighten you a wee bitty further. You see we are a democracy and the wonky political system you have to be stuck with is not a positive basic for the point. So come on youngie and wise up. Only too glad to widen your youthful knowledge.

ps As for auld yins you are a supporter of a senator who is an oldie........

Shall we start to call Scotland "semi-detached" now then?   :right: