What's Going on in China?

Topic: What's Going on in China? (Read 89535 times)

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #325 – 2021-04-28, 11:41:01

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2021-04-28, 06:02:00

While I agree Biden will not really "fight" what others call Big Oil, he will do his utmost to destroy a fairly large swath of our middle class with his "meddling"...: Halting the pipeline between Canada and the Gulf of Mexico; encouraging state governors like California's Gavin Newsom to advance the fight against economic sanity by adopting any damn-fool method to virtue-signal Our (his) commitment to Climate ~~Nirvana~~ Utopia;

You will admit that oil-rich failed or failing states -in the Liberal sense of yore- will benefit from a U.S. precluded from attaining energy independence?

A few misunderstandings there, where the last was the most egregious. Being independent of fossil fuels make you less, not more, dependent on fossil fuels. It is kind of obvious.

I can guess where that misunderstanding comes from. In the name of energy security the US increased their domestic fossil fuel production, e.g. with fracking. In a sense that was successful, the US today imports much less Arab oil. and is not directly affected by shocks in the region. But fracking never made money and never will, billions have been lost. Reducing the consumption of fossil fuels by building renewable power permanently removes this dependency. This is basically the European approach, and Europe now is neither dependent on Arab nor Russian fossil energy. The Arab gulf states, and also Russia these days, are primarily selling to Asia. If Asia too reduce their fossil dependency, the value of their fossil reserves will fall precipitously. Which is a good thing for all of us of course, otherwise they would be extracted and burnt.

A different misunderstanding is that fossil fuel extraction benefit the middle class. They benefit a small elite.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #326 – 2021-04-28, 12:15:35

Most interesting to watch your attempts to re-educate Oakdale. I am firmly convinced that he is absolutely incorrigible. Right now there is this rampant theory among Trumpites that Biden, as a Xi puppet that he is, plans to ban cows in America and introduce plant-based beer. This, along with reducing rates of coal and oil usage, would destroy the American middle class! It all makes sense!!

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #327 – 2021-04-28, 12:18:07

But the Texas power crisis this winter shows a couple US vulnerabilities. Not just that fossil fuels are not a particularly secure form of electricity generation, but also some particular grid problems that Texas may share with California.

The EU consists of many small and medium-sized countries agglutinated into a union, which is not the most efficient of structures. But the European grid is overall better than the US (and it is not as if there aren't shortcomings here too), not the least in long-distance energy transfer. And this for political rather than technical reasons. The states don't want to be subservient to the federal government.

Texas and California built different power grids, but neither stood up to climate change

But getting back to the thread topic, both US and EU grids are dwarfed by Chinese grid projects, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6pE0z5StI4

Though built by a European company (at the time, now Japanese-owned), there is nothing like that in Europe. A line like that would link Scandinavia to the Sahara.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #328 – 2021-04-28, 13:00:28

Quote from: ersi on 2021-04-28, 12:15:35

Most interesting to watch your attempts to re-educate Oakdale. I am firmly convinced that he is absolutely incorrigible. Right now there is this rampant theory among Trumpites that Biden, as a Xi puppet that he is, plans to ban cows in America and introduce plant-based beer. This, along with reducing rates of coal and oil usage, would destroy the American middle class! It all makes sense!!

Heh, yeah the "Biden bans beef" line is tragi-comic. Particularly since the argument is that such drastic reductions can only be achieved by everyone becoming vegetarians, while in fact the goal for US emissions in 2030 (half those in 2005) is still 1½ times the EU average today, and 2½ Sweden.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #329 – 2021-04-29, 07:59:43

Quote from: ersi on 2021-04-28, 04:15:35

Right now there is this rampant theory among Trumpites that Biden, as a Xi puppet that he is, plans to ban cows in America and introduce plant-based beer. This, along with reducing rates of coal and oil usage, would destroy the American middle class! It all makes sense!!

Where on earth do you get this stuff from, ersi?
(I'm sure "inquiring minds" want to know...:)

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #330 – 2021-04-29, 09:20:31

Fox News, fair and balanced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQZOQKFHAZE

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #331 – 2021-04-29, 17:28:28

As always, snark and poorly followed click-bait...

and

(What's that you say, about motivated reasoning?)

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #332 – 2021-04-29, 18:36:04

Access denied?

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #333 – 2021-04-29, 18:54:58

Do you mean access to https://www.11alive.com/article/news/verify/national-verify/biden-administration-red-meat-consumption-university-of-michigan-study/536-ec779795-82a3-4279-ad9e-163ab59f4db2 (A fact check by a TV station? Seems unlikely; VPN problem, maybe?)

Quote

NATIONAL VERIFY
No, the Biden Administration has not proposed a reduction in red meat consumption by 2030
The experts behind a University of Michigan study are setting the record straight.

Author: Erin Jones (VERIFY), Mauricio Chamberlin (VERIFY), Evan Koslof
Published: 6:59 PM EDT April 26, 2021
Updated: 7:17 PM EDT April 26, 2021
Facebook Twitter
President Joe Biden announced his plan for the United States to reach a 50-52 percent reduction from 2005 levels in economy-wide net greenhouse gas pollution by 2030 at the Virtual Leaders Summit on Climate on Thursday, April 22.

After the announcement was made, headlines like this one from the Daily Mail: “How Biden's climate plan could limit you to eat just one burger a MONTH,” several on-air segments on Fox News and Fox Business, and a number of social media posts claimed that Biden’s plan would slash red meat consumption in the U.S. by 90 percent.

THE QUESTION
Did the Biden Administration propose a plan to slash red meat consumption by 90 percent?

THE SOURCES
United States Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack

FACT SHEET: President Biden Sets 2030 Greenhouse Gas Pollution Reduction Target Aimed at Creating Good-Paying Union Jobs and Securing U.S. Leadership on Clean Energy Technologies

Heller, Martin, Gregory Keoleian, and Diego Rose. (2020) “Implications of Future US Diet Scenarios on Greenhouse Gas Emissions.” CSS Report, University of Michigan: Ann Arbor 1-24.

THE ANSWER
This is false.
No, the Biden Administration has not proposed a reduction in red meat consumption at all, let alone 90 percent.

WHAT WE FOUND
In January 2020, researchers at the University of Michigan released a study on the “Implications of Future US Diet Scenarios on Greenhouse Gas Emissions.” It found that greenhouse gas emissions could be cut in half if red meat consumption is cut by 90 percent, along with a 50 percent drop in all other meat consumption.

In a fact sheet released by the White House on April 22 following President Biden’s speech on greenhouse gas pollution reductions, neither mention any proposed changes to meat consumption.

While the White House did not comment directly on the claims, they did confirm that there are no restrictions on red meat consumption as part of Biden’s climate plans or emissions targets.

During a call with the media on Monday, April 26, U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack answered the question more directly, saying, “There is no effort designed to limit people's intake of beef coming out of President Biden's White House or USDA. Sometimes in the political world, games get played and issues are injected into the conversation knowing full well that there's no factual basis."
(from URL above)

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #334 – 2021-04-29, 19:06:33

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2021-04-29, 18:54:58

VPN problem, maybe?

Perhaps they decided to self-ban in Europe, in which case they should be shunned and avoided for whatever immoral stunts they dare pull on Americans.

Quote

Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.11alive.com/article/news/verify/national-verify/biden-administration-red-meat-consumption-university-of-michigan-study/536-ec779795-82a3-4279-ad9e-163ab59f4db2" on this server.
Reference #18.acc51102.1619723046.11bced37

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #335 – 2021-04-29, 23:48:58

An Atlanta tv station that doesn't diss Biden...? I'm confused; at your reaction as well as their proscription.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #336 – 2021-04-30, 04:20:58

He was not referring to Biden. but to the web site that is not available to him or me, and probably other Europeans, but is available to you and probably other Americans. When a web site is geographically constrained like this it is usually for someone's Intellectual Pillage rights, or for our privacy rights. As there is no media file, presumably the latter. Thus "good riddance".

The Biden's beef story is manufactured, and the usual suspects like Murdoch and Cruz pushed it hard. This story is completely false, misleading, and deliberately so. Yet… There is smoke, grain, Chinese whispers. Not with Biden, not with 2030. Biden's "radical" goals are the same as every pre-Trump president have committed to. They require change, but not hardship. If he pulls this through it will be a bit like recognising the Armenian genocide. A lot of presidents have promised, he actually did it. But it is relatively easy to do because technology has changed. But yet, the world won't end in 2030.
And we got pie.

The 80/20 solution (or 73.2%/26.8% solution) is clear: Stop burning fossil fuels. In theory it should be hard now that renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels. In practice it is hard because:

energy runs at a slow burn, a new power plant can run for 40-50 years
while the fossil industry is not as all-powerful as it was 50 years ago, it still packs a massive lobbying punch
change is hard
we still want our economies to grow (yes, degrowthers, we do, poverty is not sexy)
while the OECD countries have more than enough energy for our needs, much of the rest of the world is underdeveloped
our electrification is partial, and while that will get us more available energy in the end, we still have to do it and change is hard
even renewable energy emits climate gases in their life cycles (less so the more we bootstrap)
our "carbon loan" will be due, and we will have to pay it back with interest

We are at least a decade behind schedule and are massively overshooting, but we are course-correcting. The goals for 2030 takes will, but can be done and that without hardship. The goals for 2050-60 will be harder. Because of that overshoot, far harder. Net zero is precisely that, net zero, not net 26.8%. So energy and its uses, industry, waste, agriculture and land use will have to end up on zero. That means looking at everything. Building those cities and all that shiny new infrastructure comes at a cost, and all that beef. But fortunately we're talking about net zero, not zero, which would be hard to combine with existing. The green slice of the pie could be net negative, and all that renewable energy we have built up can be set to use to claw out some of that carbon we have dumped into the atmosphere.

But the green slice is quite big right now, and Bos taurus is a large part of the problem. Primarily on land use, but it takes a lot of energy to grow tham, and they produce a lot of natural gas in the process. Either we have to create a better cow, or we must have less of them. Some cause far more harm than others, particularly those in China shops, they will have to go.

For the rest, there might be tricks. Sea weed may be better than grass which is better than maize and soy. We can make artificial cows, or alternatives to cow, or alternatives to meat all together. Here we intersect with another cultural/economic/moral phenomena:

Quote from: jax on 2021-04-25, 07:49:44

They are vegans because they can. Throughout our history we haven't been vegans because we couldn't. Animal products have been a necessary supplement to our diet. Now we are affluent enough that we can forego it, and technology gives us alternatives. Thus we can ask ourselves: Is it right to kill animals for food? I find it likely that 22nd century people will look at our eating habits with revulsion.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #337 – 2021-04-30, 06:35:10

Quote from: jax on 2021-04-30, 04:20:58

He was not referring to Biden. but to the web site that is not available to him or me, and probably other Europeans, but is available to you and probably other Americans. When a web site is geographically constrained like this it is usually for someone's Intellectual Pillage rights, or for our privacy rights. As there is no media file, presumably the latter. Thus "good riddance".

Yup, exactly that.

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #338 – 2021-04-30, 17:54:52

Quote from: Frenzie on 2021-04-29, 22:35:10

When a web site is geographically constrained like this it is usually for someone's Intellectual Pillage rights, or for our privacy rights.

Can you verify the block originates in the EU? (Or that it doesn't...)

Re: What's Going on in China?

Reply #339 – 2021-05-20, 14:23:58

@OakdaleFTL I ran some checks: 11alive.com server is blocking Europeans. Asians and Africans are welcome to access the server freely, Europeans are not.

Not that I am in favour of jury trials, but the new security law, imposed to Hong Kong by mainland China, seems like a serious departure from ordinary legal practice in Hong Kong.

Quote from: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3134145/first-person-tried-under-hong-kongs-national-security

First person charged under Hong Kong’s national security law loses bid for a jury trial
- Tong Ying-kit, accused of driving his motorcycle into a group of police officers, will have his case heard by three judges hand-picked by city leader Carrie Lam
- High Court judge Alex Lee rules the provision for trial by jury contained in the Basic Law overridden by national security law