The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Topic: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked. (Read 10575 times)

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #25 – 2016-07-16, 17:06:18

Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-07-16, 16:25:58

Quote from: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-16, 16:20:29
(damn woman didn't have any insurance)
What happens in that situation?

She is going to be fined $1500 for not having any insurance; the insurance I have on my car covers me in the event that I am hit by an uninsured driver, so they will be paying the $700 in damages, but ultimately, my premium will go up.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #26 – 2016-07-16, 20:29:02

Quote from: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-16, 17:06:18

so they will be paying the $700 in damages, but ultimately, my premium will go up.

If the accident was not your fault (and so it seems) that would be illegal here. Your premium can not go up.

Here, assurance is mandatory and it exists an assurance fund to pay for when somebody doesn't have assurance. That fund pays and after it will pursuit the not assured driver and arrest his assets to pay the fund for it.
Capitalist things that satisfies the bourgeois soul.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #27 – 2016-07-17, 00:39:10

Typical for ex-colonists to try and avoid the truth colonel blimp. It is something you cannot handle at all just like in the past you lot just change the subject because the truth makes you lot look pathetic and you are keeping that tradition alive. You have a national police problem so try facing the truth then go back into the jingoistic blank mindset.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #28 – 2016-07-20, 09:27:00

Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-07-16, 12:29:02

Here, assurance is mandatory and it exists an assurance fund to pay for when somebody doesn't have assurance. That fund pays and after it will pursuit the not assured driver and arrest his assets to pay the fund for it.

That's a wonderful theory! In point of fact, it's the regular taxpayers that fork out the dough… The "poor" illegals haven't the money.
Here in California -where I've resided for nigh-onto 35 years- automobile insurance has been compulsory for a long time. And "un-insured motirist" coverage is extra — because there are so many of them that both the state and the insurance companies they collude with actually make a profit on ostensibly illegal behavior, it is always recommended!
When criminality is supported by the government, lots of people (and companies) make money… (The European "model," you know!

It's just the average joe who pays the freight.)

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #29 – 2016-07-20, 11:50:33

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-20, 09:27:00

That's a wonderful theory! In point of fact, it's the regular taxpayers that fork out the dough... The "poor" illegals haven't the money.
Here in California -where I've resided for nigh-onto 35 years- automobile insurance has been compulsory for a long time. And "un-insured motirist" coverage is extra -- because there are so many of them that both the state and the insurance companies they collude with actually make a profit on ostensibly illegal behavior, it is always recommended!

Americans have the talent to fail to see the principle. Or if they see it, they make sure to sidestep it.

In European compulsory car insurance, your insurance fee does not depend on what kind of accident you have (as long as you don't cause it) and with whom. It only depends on what kind of car you have, big or small. If an uninsured person causes a traffic accident, the fund that Belfrager mentioned will be used to pay up for those who suffered. And the criminal record of the uninsured person gets updated.

Edit: The point is that there's no un-insured motorist coverage extra in insurance fees here, and cannot be as a matter of principle. There are the same fees for all, and if you fail to participate in the insurance fee system, then you better don't drive. If you do it anyway, i.e. if you go into traffic as un-insured motorist, you will add to your criminal record. Legal motorists don't have to pay any extras because of that. /edit

This is practice, not theory. You evidently don't know the difference between the two.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #30 – 2016-07-20, 12:38:28

Yeah, I'm with @ersi. There's nothing "European" about the model described above. It sounds fundamentally American.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #31 – 2016-07-20, 14:31:16

@esi & Frnzie: I know well the difference between theory and practice. It's the case here, in California (and many other states), that the theory is much as you've described; but the practice is as I've described.
I suspect it is much the same in Europe — but that you'd rather not admit it… As with all insurance, the risk is spread out over who "buys" insurance. And where insurance is compulsory that's everyone who "pays". Since you can't get blood from a stone (or turnip), those who can't or won't pay don't. (Do they go to jail? Are their cars confiscated? What do they care? A "free" vacation and the loss of a vehicle that likely cost them less than $200… They're prone to criminal behavior, anyway, aren't they? Why would they change? They're parasites, true; but you accept them as such and shrug your shoulders… What can you do, eh?

)
If you don't think it affects your rates, you're naive or delusional…

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #32 – 2016-07-20, 14:54:06

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-20, 14:31:16

(Do they go to jail? Are their cars confiscated? What do they care? A "free" vacation and the loss of a vehicle that likely cost them less than $200… They're prone to criminal behavior, anyway, aren't they? Why would they change? They're parasites, true; but you accept them as such and shrug your shoulders… What can you do, eh? )

And what can you do? You, as a free American, can save up by not buying insurance while driving ever more worry-free. This is what you mean, right?

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-20, 14:31:16

If you don't think it affects your rates, you're naive or delusional…

Again, everybody has the same rates. You can affect them over your driving career by causing (or not causing) traffic accidents. Whereas the way Colonel describes it: Accidents happen, rates go up. There's a difference here that you are missing.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #33 – 2016-07-20, 15:27:52

Quote from: ersi on 2016-07-20, 06:54:06

And what can you do? You, as a free American, can save up by not buying insurance while driving ever more worry-free. This is what you mean, right?

Well, actually, I had to buy full coverage before auto insurance became compulsory in California… (I bought -and financed!- a new car! A voluntary contractual agreement — you've heard of such?) Before then, I hadn't bought auto insurance — as you surmised. I've now been driving for more than 40 years and have yet to have an "accident"…
I'm sure you think I'm just lucky.

The difference you think I'm missing is that compulsory insurance is a racket promoted by the government. Or the government is a racket, and compulsory insurance is just a subsidiary enterprise!

And, of course, you can see no other way of doing things outside of government control.

(This is a persistent and strong strain of the American character, ersi! Note Sang's ire at quite reasonable limitations of the sale of spirits!

)

So-called "soft power" is none the less power…

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #34 – 2016-07-20, 18:13:43

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-20, 15:27:52

The difference you think I'm missing is that compulsory insurance is a racket promoted by the government. Or the government is a racket, and compulsory insurance is just a subsidiary enterprise!

To call the social contract a racket is a bit of a stretch. The racket part is that the government will take action against you, sure, but in your typical racketeering scheme the government would be causing car crashes in the first place.

In any case, the comparison to alcohol (and drugs) seems unwarranted. It's the difference between something which primarily harms yourself, albeit that will have an indirect negative effect on society as a whole, and something that harms others directly, like cars and guns. "I have the freedom to harm myself" is a value of sorts of Western society. "I have the freedom to harm others," however, is something typically associated with theocratic, fascist or totalitarian regimes.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #35 – 2016-07-20, 19:07:51

Quote from: Frenzie on 2016-07-20, 18:13:43

The racket part is that the government will take action against you, sure, but in your typical racketeering scheme the government would be causing car crashes in the first place.

In fact, Oakdale seems to be hinting that car crashes and uninsured motorists are government's (and insurance companies') fault, in phrases like

- "both the state and the insurance companies [...] make a profit on ostensibly illegal behavior"
- "When criminality is supported by the government, lots of people (and companies) make money..."

It's never clear what his gripe is. Does he have a problem with criminality? Looks like it, but what is the specific crime in question? Or is it the fact that somebody else than him is making a profit? Looks like that also, but he is yet to show that government is indeed making a profit in the manner he insinuates and that he personally has a better system on offer.

Anyway, it's always clear that, in his reasoning, government is evil, except when it's US government operating elsewhere than US. Why would that be? It just is, I guess.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #36 – 2016-07-20, 21:36:06

Still pining for the benevolent Soviet, I see, ersi. Good times not forgotten, eh?

"Whatever is not forbidden is compulsory!" That's the only rational arrangement…

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #37 – 2016-07-20, 22:12:07

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-20, 09:27:00

That's a wonderful theory!

Thanks for ersi and frenzie for waisting their time trying to explain the basics of civilization to the North Americans "market" slaves.
They don't learn, but I admire your missionary patience.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #38 – 2016-07-20, 22:34:09

Thanks to states like Portugal, for showing us the inevitable result of pseudo-intellectual governance!

Eventually, you'll just cry for someone to change your nappies… Poor ex-colonists.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #39 – 2016-07-20, 22:48:27

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-20, 22:34:09

Thanks to states like Portugal, for showing us the inevitable result of pseudo-intellectual governance! Eventually, you'll just cry for someone to change your nappies… Poor ex-colonists.

Ridiculous, simply ridiculous.
I understand, you can be nothing but the "American World Champion" of ridiculousness.

Do you have some spare 500.000 euros? (sorry, we don't accept dollars) You can get a Portuguese Green Card and become an European citizen. Lots of Chinese are doing it.

That must solve all your intellectual hallucination.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #40 – 2016-07-21, 03:23:53

Well, now it's the interesting part. My insurance agent and I both agree that 2 1/2 weeks is enough time for her to find $688.91.

She is an an assistant manager at the Wal-Mart of the town where she rear-ended me, so she has some money, in any case.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #41 – 2016-07-21, 10:09:27

Quote from: ersi on 2016-07-20, 11:50:33

It only depends on what kind of car you have, big or small. If an uninsured person causes a traffic accident, the fund that Belfrager mentioned will be used to pay up for those who suffered. And the criminal record of the uninsured person gets updated.

This sounds a little silly. So if you have a big car and cause a fender bender, you'll get a bigger fine even though in the small accident cause probably caused the same amount of damage as a small car? WTF? How about actually getting the repair estimates to find out? Even that fund isn't free. How much of your taxpayer money pays into it? It's not that I don't understand the reasoning. If I get hit and injured by a person that doesn't have insurance because he can't afford it, I can sue all I want not still not be able to squeeze blood from a stone.

Quote from: Colonel Rebel on 2016-07-21, 03:23:53

She is an an assistant manager at the Wal-Mart of the town where she rear-ended me, so she has some money, in any case.

In your cause though, she should have had insurance obviously. LV is a metro area of 2 million and I only pay $134 a month for comprehensive coverage.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #42 – 2016-07-21, 15:16:38

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-21, 10:09:27

This sounds a little silly. So if you have a big car and cause a fender bender, you'll get a bigger fine even though in the small accident cause probably caused the same amount of damage as a small car? WTF?

I'm not really sure what you're talking about. In the preceding sentence (the one you didn't quote

) @ersi explicitly said he was talking about your insurance fee. It depends on factors like your age, your marital state, what the car is used for, the car's age, the kilometers on it, the type of car (or in ersi's words, its size), how long you've had your license, etc. Your fee doesn't go up because of an accident you didn't cause (except in the sense that it might indirectly raise everyone's fee by a few cents), which is what @Colonel Rebel seemed to be saying. That any accident affects your fee regardless who's at fault.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #43 – 2016-07-21, 15:27:51

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-21, 10:09:27

How about actually getting the repair estimates to find out?

The money that gets paid to the sufferer (as opposed to the causer of the accident) is strictly based on the repair costs. The whole idea in making the system compulsory is that there be a fast glitchless process to pay it out, so the sufferer can repair/replace the car/health and go on with life. If the causer is un-insured, the money will be paid out from the fund, and the causer will have to refund the fund. If the causer fails to refund the fund, he is demonstrating his financial lack of viability, in addition to his crime of having not acquired the insurance in the first place.

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-21, 10:09:27

Even that fund isn't free. How much of your taxpayer money pays into it? It's not that I don't understand the reasoning. If I get hit and injured by a person that doesn't have insurance because he can't afford it, I can sue all I want not still not be able to squeeze blood from a stone.

It's blatantly obvious that you don't understand the reasoning. Otherwise you would not have these questions. The fund is funded by a part of the ordinary compulsory insurance fees. Non-driving tax-payers are not participating in it.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #44 – 2016-07-21, 23:59:55

Quote from: ersi on 2016-07-21, 15:27:51

The fund is funded by a part of the ordinary compulsory insurance fees.

Now this whole thing is making more sense. When I signed up up for insurance, I was asked if wanted non-insured drivers coverage in case some idiot without insurance hit me. So, in Europe this isn't optional and everybody has it.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #45 – 2016-07-22, 00:34:42

And again yet another pointless shooting by police on an unarmed man. The report showed a health worker trying to deal with an Austic man on the street and the police arrived so the worker lay down with his hands in the air and obviously asked not to be shot and what did the damn police do? Shot the helper in the leg. The uniformed and brainless thugs are keeping the arrogant tradition well and truly alive. Doubt if it will change much as the arrogance is so built in and easy to get away with.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #46 – 2016-07-22, 03:53:14

It gets more indefensible by the day. The police story is that they got a call about a man in the street with a gun an threatening suicide. But when they got there, the autistic man was in the street playing with toy trucks and as Howie said, the healthcare worker was trying to help him. Here's a link to an article about it

Quote

According to Kinsey, the officer who fired the shots seemed confused by what happened. “‘Sir, why did you shoot me?'” Kinsey recalled asking the officer. “He said, ‘I don’t know.'”

After the "peace" officer shot Kinsey, the healthcare worker was left handcuffed and bleeding for about twenty minutes.

Quote

During a news conference later on Thursday, John Rivera, president of the Miami-Dade County Police Benevolent Association, called the shooting an accident.

“Sometimes police officers make mistakes,” Rivera said. “They are not computers. They are not robots. They are God’s creation.”

Of course, officers aren't robots but shooting a healthcare worker with his hands up three times is not an accident. One of commentators at the Post gave the excuse that it was split second decision. It only takes a split second to determine that a toy truck is not a gun.

This cop needs to go to prison.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #47 – 2016-07-22, 06:33:27

How can you determine that, Sang, before your know whether the cop was black or white or gay or straight?

But considering the wonderful examples of affirmative action lowering of standards we all know about, I'd say it's your fault: You want more unqualified applicants to be accepted.
What did you think would happen?

BTW: How many of the (black) cops in the Baltimore "paddy wagon" incident have been convicted? How many do think should have been?

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #48 – 2016-07-22, 07:47:23

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-07-21, 23:59:55

Quote from: ersi on 2016-07-21, 15:27:51
The fund is funded by a part of the ordinary compulsory insurance fees.
Now this whole thing is making more sense. When I signed up up for insurance, I was asked if wanted non-insured drivers coverage in case some idiot without insurance hit me. So, in Europe this isn't optional and everybody has it.

That's right. Where I live, it's called compulsory traffic insurance and this is exactly what it means - traffic insurance. If you are not insured against non-insured idiots in traffic, then it's not traffic insurance in the relevant sense. The insurance goes via insurance companies. To make more money, the insurance companies may come up with more stuff to cover in the insurance, but they are not allowed to cover less. "Compulsory" means there are certain minimal requirements compulsory for the insurance companies too.

Re: The Police State mentality continues virtually unchecked.

Reply #49 – 2016-07-22, 08:54:05

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-07-22, 06:33:27

How can you determine that, Sang, before your know whether the cop was black or white or gay or straight?

Because it's irrelevant. How would you know the cop was let into the force because of affirmative action? Oh I get it. You're trolling me because you think I'm in favor of affirmative action, despite the numerous times I said hiring and firing should be based on merit and things such as race/ethnicity and sexual orientation should actually be irrelevant. Still not the arch-liberal you want me to be, so I apologize for that inconvenience.