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Topic: Sing, sing a song… (Read 9286 times)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #25
So the band prevent the campaign from using their songs, via their record label.
That merely states the obvious without giving any actual information. You can license a song and you can blanket license all the songs — you don't say. :P But "Trump didn't pay the obligatory fees" is a very different story than "Stones don't like Trump to play their songs." The former says something about Trump, while the latter only says something about what the Stones think about Trump. The former is what I read; the latter is what @OakdaleFTL read.

But I'd like to think their "political" purity cost them something...  :)
Of course it'll cost 'em a little something, but I fail to see why anyone should be interested in making more profit over anything else.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #26
(Any lawyers out there? And, yes, I know the laws are different in different places...)
Maybe you vaguely know that there are differences, but you don't know what the differences are. You simply assume that everything different from American laws must be in error. You didn't even get the actual issue with the case between Rolling Stones and Trump that you got interested in enough to write about it here.


Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #27
There was a case? (As usual, you don't know what you're talking about, ersi: There was no "case" in any court anywhere; there was PR, and PR only!)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #28
There was no "case" in any court anywhere
It's just stoopid English equivocating between different meanings of "case" so miscommunication is guaranteed. Welcome to the world you live in. I'm lucky to know English only as a distant fourth language.

However, things have been close to that for Trump: "Aerosmith frontman Steven Tyler threatened to sue Trump if he did not stop playing the rock band’s song “Dream On” on the campaign trail." You can google that.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #29
It's just stoopid English equivocating between different meanings of "case" so miscommunication is guaranteed.
Not really. Case means "the state of things" unless context makes it clear that it's a "court case". I'm pretty sure @OakdaleFTL is just pulling your finger.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #30
And now my finger has been pulled? English is stoopid...

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #31
What "rights" do you'all think "artists" have? What "rights" should they have?
In Europe there's a tendency for protecting "Rights of Authorship" for Artists. For example, here in Portugal, if you have a Bar you'll need to pay an annual fee to the Author's Society for playing recorded music in your bar. How that money is redistributed by all over the world authors I don't have a clue...

Literarian authors keep their rights for 100 years, after that the books turn public.

Regarding music it's my opinion that the digital world created a new reality whilst rights of authorship are still at pré digital time and the whole things turns conflictuous. Same goes for all the digital media.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #32
But "Trump didn't pay the obligatory fees" is a very different story than "Stones don't like Trump to play their songs."
But it also say the band can do something about it going forward.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal


Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #34
Not discrimination, but maybe breach of contract. Trump claims to have purchased the rights to use them. Of course, the Rolling Stones are just the latest in a growing list of bands and solo artists that don't want him to use their music. The record label might be in a catch-22. The Stones could sue them if if they allow Trump to use the music (note the link in my previous post.) but Trump could also sue them for not allowing him to use the music
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #35
Perhaps. The Stones aren't at BMI.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #36
 I just took that as an example. The Stones probably have a similar clause in their contract. I'm biased because I have published work myself and am preparing other books for publication (and republication) , but I feels artists need to have some control of how their works are used. If the Stones find Trump disgusting, their work shouldn't be used to promote him and they should have some say in the matter.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #37
(I've always thought that copyright is the right to copy... not the right to play.)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #38
In Dutch it's called author's right. Blame English, as @ersi would say. Author's right is the right of an author/creator to decide if, where, and how their work is made public (e.g. played) or copied.

The author's law of 1817 was called the Wet, de regten bepalende die in de Nederlanden, ten opzigte van het drukken en uitgeven van letter- en kunstwerken, kunnen worden uitgeoefend (Wikipedia). The law that decides who can print and publish works of print and art.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #39
If the Stones find Trump disgusting, their work shouldn't be used to promote him and they should have some say in the matter.
If the Stones sold their work, they must shut up. Stones are so much prostitutes as the girl on the street. Probably even more.
If they have clauses in the contract that means nothing, only judges can judge it, not the public opinion.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #40
Stones are so much prostitutes as the girl on the street. Probably even more.
How's that? Artists have to make a living, too. One of my computerized graphic design instructors put it very simply. The starving artist bit sounds romantic, but all that will happen is you'll wind up poor and bitter.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #41
If the Stones sold their work, they must shut up.
In the realm of arts (and sciences), there's such a thing as authorship. You can turn over your work for public distribution. When it's a commercial transaction with a record company or a publishing house, it will look like selling, but you cannot sell your authorship, logically.

Legally, authorship is a title or certificate. It's a bureaucratic device which makes things tricky. Somebody may rush ahead of you to obtain it on your work.

"Copyright" originally concerned purely the distributors. These days the copyrightists openly talk about securing "the rights of authors" by means of copyright. Logically the line is quite clear, but in reality it gets blurred. Many bands establish their own record companies (like vanity press) or, when the band hits big, like Rolling Stones has, they contractually share the distribution profits.

Not that this clarifies anything. It's a legal and social mess where very few are unconcerned and can easily shut up.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #42
This article provides multiple examples of artists preventing politicians from using their music. Most of the cases were settled out of court and the campaigns had to comply with the artist's wishes.

“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #43
"Had to comply" doesn't mean "were compelled by law"… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)


Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #45
This article provides multiple examples of artists preventing politicians from using their music. Most of the cases were settled out of court and the campaigns had to comply with the artist's wishes.
Again, you can't deny anyone using your music because you don't like his political options. You're a musician not a politician.
If a politician you don't have copyrights, by the contrary, you offer your ideas.
If a musician, you play, receive your money and shut up.

Regarding the stones and prostitutes, the difference is that prostitutes are more honest and make less damage than any rock'n roll band.

A matter of attitude.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #46
Regarding the stones and prostitutes, the difference is that prostitutes are more honest and make less damage than any rock'n roll band.
Not always.
"HOLLYWOOD (CBSMiami) — Two women have been arrested for separate theft incidents at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino.

Makita Calhoun, 26, admitted to police she was paid cash to meet a man in his hotel room on September 8th, according to the Seminole Police Department arrest report.

Detectives said surveillance video showed her and another woman spend more than three hours in the room that night. Police said as the women left, Calhoun stole the man’s $8,500 Rolex watch and an $8,300 diamond pendant, and could be seen dashing from the hotel room where she was eventually picked up by an accomplice.

Calhoun was arrested eight days later while walking the casino floor and charged with grand theft."


Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #48
Led Zeppelin has beaten a lawsuit claiming that the iconic guitar riff in "Stairway to Heaven"
OMG the perfect song for you!

In fairness they prolly did steal it in the same way almost every song ever has ripped off "The Amen Break". That it's so obvious and all over the place almost anything relates.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #49
As a guitar player, I can tell you that this riff is over a hundred years old; and Randy "California" never complained about Stairway to Heaven
I was a fan of Spirit, and of Led Z. (although I still think Jimmy Paige one of the most technically inept lead guitarists ever to achieve success), but this battle over copyrights (after the writer has died…) is perverse.

Who holds the "copyright" on the chromatic scale? :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)