Where debating everything under the sun is only the beginning

What happens when the mandates fail to have any noticeable effect?

But not recently (that I know of).

What happens when the mandates fail to have any noticeable effect?

Not really. Are you assuming a nebulous fog of covid persisting, roaming about in the open air and sunshine?

People either follow mandates or not, for various reasons, political or social, which has nothing directly to do with the medical effect of masks and vaccines.

OMT chairman Jaap van Dissel is very concerned about the Omikron variant. In a technical briefing in the House of Representatives, Van Dissel stated that he expects the number of hospital admissions, which is now slowly declining, to probably rise again in January.

"We all get despondent about the coronavirus thing," Van Dissel stated, but the Omikron variant "is a serious thing." He cited a study from the United Kingdom showing that two pricks from AstraZeneca and Pfizer hardly help anymore to prevent infection from the Omikron variant. A third shot would raise vaccine efficacy again to 80 percent.

But that's probably not enough to stop a sizeable wave. A British modeling study cited by Van Dissel showed that the Omikron variant can lead to more hospitalizations than hospitals can handle. Translated to the Dutch situation, this would amount to over a hundred ICU admissions per day, Van Dissel calculated. At the height of this wave there were over fifty and already many hospitals have to cancel cardiac and cancer operations.

The OMT will meet again on Friday to see what needs to be done to slow down the Omikron variant. The RIVM estimates that it will be dominant in the Netherlands by the turn of the year.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

You have no idea

[OMT chairman Jaap van Dissel] cited a study from the United Kingdom showing that two pricks from AstraZeneca and Pfizer hardly help anymore to prevent infection from the Omikron variant.

ordinary flu has raised worryingly

But the need for more and better studies is not obviated by your attitude, dude.

I couldn't find a source in English.

Here's what we know, as a minimum: It's a flu virus.

Ordinary flu is handled by means of recurring vaccination campaigns, is it not?

As I suspected, you have a sufficient exposure to the medical studies. So you have no actual complaints.

They have demonstrated criminal incompetence over here

"Sounds reasonable" doesn't much reassure me.

We have almost two years of data -don't we?- to plumb, and we should have numerous randomized controlled trials (RCTs). (Regarding masking, if RCTs show the practice to be little more than a placebo then creating a false sense of security may be quite harmful in some circumstances.)

Are you familiar with what New York's Governor Cuomo did, early on?

Did you catch my mention of the Stanford conjecture? (That the Omicron variant -with its large number of mutations- likely originated in an untreated AIDS patient? I can find the write-up, if you';re interested.) If that's so, countries like mine need to redouble our efforts to treat AIDS in Africa....

Did he -or the UK study- cite a serious risk of severe symptomatic covid known to be Omicron? If the variant remains mildly symptom-inducing, the effects upon hospital systems is minimal.

[Much partisan blather...] Masks work against contagious air-borne diseases. Everybody knows this much. [More partisan blather...]

as we know from observing actual doctors, masks definitely work

A directive early in the pandemic to free up hospital space by forcing nursing homes to accept recovering COVID-19 patients was ultimately reversed but was blamed by advocates for spreading the virus and contributing to deaths.

After the administration refused to release data and answer questions about the policy for nine months, AP obtained records this year showing more than 9,000 recovering coronavirus patients in New York state were released from hospitals into nursing homes under the order, more than 40% higher than what the state health department previously disclosed.

(source)

This new masking alleged order is NOT being issued by the Governor, it is only being issued in a memo by Tomas J. Aragon, M.D., the State Public Health Officer & Director of the California Department of Public Health, an unelected state bureaucrat directed by Newsom.

It is being touted by Dr. Mark Ghaly, Secretary of Health for the state of California like it is a government order, but in fact it is a mere memo entitled “Guidance for the use of Masks.” The word “order” is not used anywhere in the memo, instead it claims it is a “requirement” without citing any particular authority.

California is exempting San Francisco from a rule that takes effect Wednesday requiring all people to wear masks indoors in a bid to contain a troubling rise in new coronavirus cases.

San Francisco will continue to allow fully vaccinated people to remove their masks in gyms and workplaces while its overall masking mandate remains in effect, the city Department of Public Health announced.

“It’s a recognition of all of the thought and care that San Francisco residents have been putting into staying as safe as possible,” said Dr. Susan Philip, San Francisco’s health officer.

About 86% of eligible San Francisco residents have received at least one vaccine dose, according to the public health department.

San Francisco businesses were relieved that the city can continue permitting fully vaccinated people to go maskless in some indoor locations.

The "Everybody knows" version of science...

What did Cuomo do?

Quote

A directive early in the pandemic to free up hospital space by forcing nursing homes to accept recovering COVID-19 patients was ultimately reversed but was blamed by advocates for spreading the virus and contributing to deaths.

After the administration refused to release data and answer questions about the policy for nine months, AP obtained records this year showing more than 9,000 recovering coronavirus patients in New York state were released from hospitals into nursing homes under the order, more than 40% higher than what the state health department previously disclosed.

(source)

You pose the question in an odd fashion: "So, AIDS is worth treating. Is covid worth prophylactics?" The short answer is Yes, if they work...

Similar decisions were also made elsewhere in the world, where hospital space is lacking, with the same results.

Critics have long argued there were many other places those patients could have been sent, including New York City’s Jacob Javits Convention Center, which had been set up as a makeshift hospital, and the USS Comfort military hospital ship. The state contends those facilities were not suitable substitutes for the care of nursing homes.

(source)

Quote from: ersi on 2021-12-15, 21:13:27

Similar decisions were also made elsewhere in the world, where hospital space is lacking, with the same results.

That's the point: Hospital space was not lacking.

For "not suitable" read "One was supported by a philanthropic evangelical; the ship was sent by Donald Trump!"

Was there something in it for him personally, which could have biased him towards the decision?

If you say so; more specifically, if you say extreme social distancing is what works... But how long can this practice be maintained?

Similar decisions were also made elsewhere in the world, where hospital space is lacking, with the same results. They needed space to host the patients, this part makes it understandable, but of course the patients are the source of spread of the contagion so the situation must be managed carefully....