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Topic: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.  (Read 34680 times)

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #25 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on
it is a human rights issue
James, how can there be "human rights" if there is no free will, no praise, no blame?
Do you begin to see why I consider the "no free will" position to be incoherent? (If its a choice between reductionism and free will, you're on the horns of a dilemma…)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #26 –
If there is no free will, then there is no "human rights"-- or any other kind of rights-- either. For that matter, "human intellect" falls apart in the face of what can only be described as base animal instincts.

So--- you've got a problem. You can't be the smartest man in the room if your intelligence is only animal instinct, after all.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #27 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on
Acknowledgment of transgenders as a third gender is not a social or medical issue--it is a human rights issue.  Is this something that you and/or your country would applaud?

Transsexualism is not a human right. There is no such a thing as "third gender".
Enough of moral relativism at its worst imaginable level.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #28 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
If there is no free will, then there is no "human rights"-- or any other kind of rights-- either. For that matter, "human intellect" falls apart in the face of what can only be described as base animal instincts.

Human rights are a relatively recent invention and nothing more. What are base animal instincts? All animals that I'm aware of limit and target their violent behavior. Lions tend to not kill other lions and the same is true of other animals. I think that humans are much worse than other creatures in dealing with their own kind, although it isn't always the case for most of us most of the time. War is another matter entirely. In war the gloves come off, bombs are dropped, the enemy is gassed and shot with abandon.

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #30 –
Quote from: Belfrager on
Transsexualism is not a human right. There is no such a thing as "third gender".
Also, importantly, let's not screw with language categories: Many languages use three genders, male, female and neuter… It's the conflation with sex and gender (a grammatical category) that's required by transsexualism; biology and grammar are not very similar disciplines. One's sex is determined by one's chromosomes. Your genes got Ys, you're guys. (Source: Nature. Cite: here, among others… :) )

[A money-quote:]
Quote

SRY (for sex-determining region Y) is a gene located on the short (p) arm just outside the pseudoautosomal region. It is the master switch that triggers the events that converts the embryo into a male. Without this gene, you get a female instead.
What is the 

       
  • On very rare occasions  aneuploid humans are born with such karyotypes as XXY, XXXY, and even XXXXY. Despite their extra X chromosomes, all these cases are male. 

    •    
  • This image (courtesy of Robin Lovell-Badge from Nature 351:117, 1991) shows two mice with an XX karyotype (and thus they should be female). However, as you may be able to see, they have a male phenotype. This is because they are transgenic for SRY. Fertilized XX eggs were injected with DNA carrying the SRY gene.
    see Making Transgenic Animals
    Although these mice have testes, male sex hormones, and normal mating behavior, they are sterile.

    •    
  • Another rarity: XX humans with testicular tissue because a translocation has placed the SRY gene on one of the X chromosomes

    •    
  • Still another rarity that demonstrates the case: women with an XY karyotype who, despite their Y chromosome, are female because of a destructive mutation in SRY.[/l][/l]

   
  • [/l]

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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #32 –
I have heard of having three different sexes involved in reproduction. As you might have guessed, in a sci-fi movie.

"Battle Beyond the Stars". There's a passage in that movie which refers to this phenomenon, and apparently there is only one planet in that galaxy which has it. Most everywhere else, it only requires male and female for reproduction.

Oh, man---- I gotta stop watching such crappy movies!
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #33 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Oh, man---- I gotta stop watching such crappy movies!

If you only like topnotch space movies, try this one, perhaps the best such movie ever made.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln7WF78PolA[/video]

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on
Lions tend to not kill other lions and the same is true of other animals. I think that humans are much worse than other creatures in dealing with their own kind, although it isn't always the case for most of us most of the time.
Re: the lions, except when they don't… A mere tendency is not much to go on! We know that they do, fairly often: Young male lions are aggressive! ( Hey! — can we please get a Fosse to go live with the lions? :) )
Many animals eat their young (perhaps "perceiving" an upcoming food shortage… :) Or merely counting teats and offspring; that's not something that requires "AP math".)

Might I posit that people just make shit up to support the conclusions they're most comfortable with? :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #35 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
Oh, man---- I gotta stop watching such crappy movies!
mjm, the bio-pic Ed Wood got (finally!) Marty Landau an Oscar!
There's a reason: schlock sells!

Quote from: Jimbro3738 on
That's more than I ever wanted to know on the subject.
Really?!
Didn't you go to high school…? :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #36 –
This thread will end well......said nobody ever.  :devil:

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #37 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on

Quote from: jseaton2311 on
it is a human rights issue
James, how can there be "human rights" if there is no free will, no praise, no blame?
Do you begin to see why I consider the "no free will" position to be incoherent? (If its a choice between reductionism and free will, you're on the horns of a dilemma…)

I have said before and I will say it again, the illusion of free will is so complete that no one (even those of us who can grasp it), will ever live their life as if it there is no free will--think about it for a moment before ridiculing it out of hand. 

Every decision that you make is downstream from the subconscious and conscious thoughts (data), that sifts through your mind to arrive at the only solution or result that is possible based on that accumulated data--the mind has nothing else to work with.  Going back in time and doing it again--with all else being equal--will only produce the one and only and same result.  One has to invoke the supernatural/metaphysical realm to give the mind complete autonomy over what it is--a living machine--and I don't buy any of that nonsense. 

We are all egotistical sons of bitches who like to think we are independent of our circumstances, but we can never change or escape from what has already been set in motion...nevaaaa.  :knight:  :cheers:
James J

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #38 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on
the mind has nothing else to work with.  Going back in time and doing it again--with all else being equal--will only produce the one and only and same result.  One has to invoke the supernatural/metaphysical realm to give the mind complete autonomy over what it is--a living machine--and I don't buy any of that nonsense.
It would be much simpler, if that were an accurate description.
How do you make "all else be equal"? You nor I have anywhere near that level of information; and our education(s) should convince us that we never shall. Your hubris says otherwise… Convince me!
But even you don't believe it. (Although you're cussedly stubborn — not to mention stupid! BTW: Don't bother reporting me for my "personal insult"… There is no person to be insulted; and no person to "perform" the insult: There is only cause and effect. So, you'd have to ask that all of reality -in your sense- be banned. Why would you do that? Of course, because you are "programmed" to do so… :) )
Quote from: jseaton2311 on
Going back in time and doing it again--with all else being equal--will only produce the one and only and same result.
You have or know of a way to do this? :) (Nah. This is your weird form of uniformitarianism… Some things do need to be assumed. I just think you've made a few bad choices, for your initial assumptions.) You're very fond of counter-factuals! Do you know how silly that makes you look?
But: Why would you care?
You don't exist. There's only the causal chain. Right?!

In other words (the words you should use, if you believe what you say…), nobody gets hurt; nobody hurts anybody. No one's to blame for anything. No one gets praise… Us machines just do what we're programmed to do.

Why won't you accept that?
Quote from: jseaton2311 on
One has to invoke the supernatural/metaphysical realm to give the mind complete autonomy over what it is--a living machine--and I don't buy any of that nonsense.
Just because you were ill-educated doesn't mean that the little bit you understood was wrong!
You don't need to "buy" much. But if you won't accept the gift of generation's past you should probably re-name yourself Igrate!
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #39 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on

mjm, the bio-pic Ed Wood got (finally!) Marty Landau an Oscar!
There's a reason: schlock sells!

But it didn't do well at the box office. In other words: What do you mean by "sells"?

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #40 –
Quote from: ersi on
But it didn't do well at the box office. In other words: What do you mean by "sells"?
"A very good actor was finally awarded the highest accolade from his peers!" What will you get, ersi? :)

"Schlock sells" means the common taste — arbitrated by intelligent people — will attract an audience. Or the Soviets will win the Cold War.
Your choice.
Oops! That one's over…

You'll note (or not…) that the Soviet Union focused its military expenditure on a First Strike Capability. Which sold well, in the Caucasus and elsewhere.
When Reagan met Gorbachev in Reykjavik, the point of contention was simple: Either America (and her allies) would refuse to defend themselves or the Soviet Union would no longer treat them as … what?
Meanies? Belligerent antagonists? (Hey! That was not a leap… :) )
We left that to the Soviets to answer.

Reagan said plainly that SDI would continue. The Soviet Union had such programs; the U.S. would too.
Some people took exception to our using our wealth and intellect to gain the upper hand. (They continue to do so, today! Silly gooses…) The "Talks" broke down…
Eventually, so did the Soviet Union.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #41 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on

Quote from: ersi on
But it didn't do well at the box office. In other words: What do you mean by "sells"?
"A very good actor was finally awarded the highest accolade from his peers!" What will you get, ersi? :)

"A very good actor was finally awarded the highest accolade from his peers" equals "schlock sells" in Oakdalean. And Oakdale thinks this requires no further explanation. This is what I get.

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #42 –
Quote from: ersi on

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on

Quote from: ersi on
But it didn't do well at the box office. In other words: What do you mean by "sells"?
"A very good actor was finally awarded the highest accolade from his peers!" What will you get, ersi? :)

"A very good actor was finally awarded the highest accolade from his peers" equals "schlock sells" in Oakdalean. And Oakdale thinks this requires no further explanation. This is what I get.


I think Oakdale confuses winning an award with box-office success. An actor can win an award from his peers--- after all, the Academy Awards are really just "The Business" patting itself on the back. However, that has nothing to do with the box office, where a movie may have seriously bombed. "We the People" who watch movies--- don't vote in the awards, which is entirely an inside-the-industry affair.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #43 –
Human rights...
Is anyone denying to people with "a sexual identity disorder" basic human rights, such as the right to be alive, to get food, to get a job and to earn one's wages honestly, to leave in peace, to be protected from violence and so on and so on?
No. The "human rights" in question use to be the rights to say "we are a couple", "we are a happy family" and "we are married (in the church of our own choice)".
Come on!

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #44 –
Quote from: Barulheira on

Human rights...
Is anyone denying to people with "a sexual identity disorder" basic human rights, such as the right to be alive, to get food, to get a job and to earn one's wages honestly, to leave in peace, to be protected from violence and so on and so on?
No. The "human rights" in question use to be the rights to say "we are a couple", "we are a happy family" and "we are married (in the church of our own choice)".
Come on!


I'll go you one better. This is really about the "human right" to be worshiped and adored for your "heroic" choice to change genders because you thought you were the other gender from the one you were born with. Anything less than absolute rapturous wonder as you regard the person who has a transgender operation is to be regarded as a denial of that person's "rights".

As you can tell by the above, I am more than a little guilty of denying B/C Jenner its "rights".
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #45 –
If the Pope is ok with it, so am I.

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #46 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on

If the Pope is ok with it, so am I.


This from a guy who, elsewhere, hates celebrities. OOOOOKAAAAYYYYY!!!
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #47 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL on
Ed Wood got (finally!) Marty Landau an Oscar!

Isn't that Ed Wood the worst ever movie maker? He is a kind of cult celebrity for the European decadent elites.
As for Martin Landau he is known here in Europe for the Space 1999 series. Nice sound track by the way, by Barry White.


Anything is better than transsexuals.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #48 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

Isn't that Ed Wood the worst ever movie maker? He is a kind of cult celebrity for the European decadent elites.

It's a decadent elite opinion that Ed Wood is the worst ever movie maker. Regular people haven't even heard of him. Ed Wood is about as memorable name as John Smith. Some may remember Elijah Wood and mix them up.

Quote from: Belfrager on

Anything is better than transsexuals.

Now, Eurovision is occasionally rather popular. Even though I heard that Russian TV managed to live-broadcast the latest Eurovision so that Conchita didn't appear, or almost.

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner and the ridiculousness of religion to cope.

Reply #49 –
Some of the comments here reinforce the idea that we are still quite primitive as social beings.  Technologically we are awesome (right rj?), but we are still basically a warlike civilization.  Some of the people here mouth the words that they 'tolerate' certain minorities, but it is clear that they are not 'tolerant' of them.  For many here, if the LGBT community and other minorities will just sit in the corner with their own kind and shut up, then they can be tolerated--somewhat anyway.  God forbid that LGBTs should celebrate their recognition out in the open--better to go to a bullfight than see that shit.  Some people here simply don't realize that but for the grace of their 'phantom' god, go they. 

There is no empathy here, no walking in another man's shoes, no concern for a fellow man, whatsoever by some.  I have a transexual friend and quite frankly, she could easily hold her own with the best of the members here (she is honestly quite amazing--but then I'm amazed by Bozo the Clown--right? ).  

It may not show, but I have a lot of respect for many of the members here.  That respect, in certain cases, has lost some of it's shine.   :knight: :( :cheers:
James J