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Topic: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival (Read 10145 times)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #25
You committed genocide with your atomic attacks over Japanese cities, there's no excuse for it. Period.
Seems to me that there are still quite a lot of Japanese extant… So the crime -if crime it was- was ineptly done.
There's certainly no excuse for that! (Ineptly doing crime, I mean.) Perhaps you'd have preferred Stalin taking a shot at doing it "eptly"? :) He was, I recall, quite talented in that way.
Perhaps so. (You seem very much off your feed lately.) It's the Howie Factor, I suspect: It's infectious!
The day you want to discuss about how a new generation can redeem from what the precedent did, I will be listening. Until then, I'll keep on saying what the entire world thinks about it, either you like it or not.
You might consider words from your Good Book… Or are you not a fan of Ezekiel 18:19?
Don't even dream in discuss with him.
:) I suppose you're right… 'Tis a pity, though! People's prejudices fascinate me.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #26
A further thought:
The day you want to discuss about how a new generation can redeem from what the precedent did, I will be listening. Until then, I'll keep on saying what the entire world thinks about it, either you like it or not.
Shouldn't I wait till the sins of your fathers are expiated?
(Or perhaps until the sons of Cain have paid in full?)

No, sir! There's no point in discussing any such poppycock! Each generation either behaves honorably or not. If my father was a nave, I don't need to be a saint to be considered only slightly better. And if he were a saint, do I need to sink to the depths of depravity to be thought bad?
It's you logic that is off… I wonder what dyspeptic brings about this deficiency?

[Forgive my change in tone, all: I've recently re-read most of Mortimer's Rumpole stories… The mood lingers!]
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #27
Not surprised that you are interested in prejudices Oakdale the US has been full of that ilk since founded. So in essence youare more closer to the matter.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #28
We learned from the "Old World" — and then we learned more. Did they? Hard to say, isn't it?

You'all messed with Africa and the Middle East and Asia for a hundred years or more… And, yet, you feel no responsibility? That tells me a lot about you. Too much, actually.
Sink into the quiescence you've earned!
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #29
This will finish with Oakdale keeping on changing matters and diverging until concluding that their atomic attacks were basically European's fault... Maybe it even deserves a well inspired poem. :)
A matter of attitude.

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #30
This will finish with Oakdale keeping on changing matters […]
No, sir. It will finish with the note of your peculiar squeamishness regarding warfare: Are you ignorant by choice or circumstance?
(I.e., are you a Quaker or otherwise committed pacifist? Or are you unaware of most of recorded history?)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #31
Belfrager here is atypical example of an ex-colonist in his nonsenses. When you consider how long he and you have been on Opera and then here and everyone knows you are a Roman Catholic he comes out with this stupidity of "are you a Quaker."  One does try to make allowances for the average US Joe as they tend to be inward looking and no little of the actual world outside of their wonky run place.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #32
Pay no attention to the Howie in the pulpit, Belfrager. He's so literal-minded that he's still learning his ABCs.

I asked you (…an intelligent European?) why you think the bombing -the nuclear bombing- of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were War Crimes?

Can you explain your judgement? Or will you just pontificate?
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #33
I asked you (…an intelligent European?) why you think the bombing -the nuclear bombing- of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were War Crimes?

Can you explain your judgement? Or will you just pontificate?

When you (...an intelligent American) keeps on asking me such question (besides previously accusing me of being an ignorant in -just imagine- History and Warfare), you only reassure my suspicions about the American total unawareness of everything that happens, including their own actions.

Funny you hadn't such doubts about war crimes when hanging German officers at the Nuremberg Court.
A matter of attitude.

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #34
War crimes are in the eye of the beholder. Had the Germans won WWII Hitler would have joined hands with Salazar and danced in the streets of Lisbon.

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #35
And if you take note Belfrager they had some interest in the experience of ex-Gestapo officers and America also took all those Nazi rocket scientists over to the land of make believe. It is amusing to see Dr Salazar being brought up  by a country that has more government agencies spying on it's own people, phones, computers, etc and outnumber the dictatorships they often hit at. The ex-colonies are not a full democracy it is only a veneer given by the corporate dictators who run it. The voting system is like giving sweets to children to keep them happy and distracted.  :D
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #36
Funny you hadn't such doubts about war crimes when hanging German officers at the Nuremberg Court.
How cute — the way Europeans bounce back and forth between contemporary disputants and historical regimes and populations…
Methinks there's a profound psychological cause. Perhaps it's explained here… The Continental confusion of personal experience and communally verified truth. Have any of your so-called intellectuals noticed this? Have they said anything worth relating?

I'm pretty sure I had nothing to do with any hangings in Nuremberg… Just as I'm quite sure the goings-on in Rotherham, England, are contemporary with Howie's jeremiads against American police.
(Are you one of those educated by the Frankfurt School…? Or just influenced, unawares? :) )
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #37
You cannot answer the charges so you resort to the childish actions of a redneck child. And inbetween executing those at Nuremberg you stole ex-Gestapo men and Nazi scientists. May I remind yet again that during the Russian Civil War when you had troops in Russia on the side of the White anti-Communist side you were having secret talks with the same damn Boshsies behind the scenes on corporate and financial trade.  If you reduced that ridiculous bill for your military the tens of millions of poor in America could be automatically helped in the good ole US of A. Morality? you lot don't know the meaning of the word!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #38
You cannot answer the charges so you resort to the childish actions of a redneck child.
One, you don't make "charges," Howie: You hurl calumny. Two, being a Cantabrigian I'm quite amused at being called a "redneck child"! :)

About American "involvement" in the Russian Civil War, you should perhaps consult Britannica:
Quote
The Allied governments now had to decide on their policy in the confused Russian situation. The original purpose of intervention, to revive an eastern front against Germany, was now meaningless. Russian exiles argued that, since the pre-Bolshevik governments of Russia had remained loyal to the Allies, the Allies were bound to help them. To this moral argument was added the political argument that the Communist regime in Moscow was a menace to the whole of Europe, with its subversive propaganda and its determination to spread revolution.

At the beginning of 1919 the French and Italian governments favoured strong support (in the form of munitions and supplies rather than in men) to the Whites (as the anti-Communist forces now came to be called), while the British and U.S. governments were more cautious and even hoped to reconcile the warring Russian parties. In January the Allies, on U.S. initiative, proposed to all Russian belligerents to hold armistice talks on the island of Prinkipo in the Sea of Marmara. The Communists accepted, but the Whites refused. In March the U.S. diplomat William C. Bullitt went to Moscow and returned with peace proposals from the Communists, which were not accepted by the Allies. After this the Allies ceased trying to come to terms with the Communists and gave increased assistance to Kolchak and Denikin.

Direct intervention by Allied military forces was, however, on a very small scale, involving a total of perhaps 200,000 soldiers. The French in Ukraine were bewildered by the confused struggle between Russian Communists, Russian Whites, and Ukrainian nationalists, and they withdrew their forces during March and April 1919, having hardly fired a shot. The British in the Arkhangelsk and Murmansk areas did some fighting, but the northern front was of only minor importance to the civil war as a whole. The last British forces were withdrawn from Arkhangelsk and from Murmansk in the early fall of 1919. The only “interventionists” who represented a real danger were the Japanese, who established themselves systematically in the Far Eastern provinces.
(source)
Wikipedia seems to be your preferred source… So: Here's a little list from their main article on the Russian Civil War…
Quote
United Kingdom/British Empire
     United Kingdom
     Canada
     Australia
     India
Japan
Czechoslovakia
Greece
Poland
United States
France
France
Romania
Serbia
Italy
Republic of China (1912–49)
China

Notice anything off about that list, RJ? :) (In case you're about to do your usual -what do you call it?- body-swerve, please note that these are the "Powers" supporting the "Whites"… An unfortunate name, considering the current Idiocracies, no? :) )
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #39
More important for this topic is Jerry Pournelle's recent post:
Quote
I am re-reading Van Crevold and preparing a “Postword” or final Chapter to show that the principles of the strategy of technology apply in this new kind of war – and that I am aware of the need for a book on the subject, and provide some thwarting materials for it. The subject is important. The subtitle of SOT was “Winning the Decisive War”, and that title is still relevant. At the same time, the age old principles of war as understood by both Sun Tzu and Machiavelli remain relevant.

It remains true that There Will Be War.
I wish he was wrong (can I have my pony, now? :) ); I'm quite sure he does too. But nobody has given me any reason to think that he is…
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: 9/11 and the ongoing Threat to National Survival

Reply #40
No I am not wrong about the Russian Civil War and my direct charge of what you did behind the scenes at the time. Money men as usual. Because of your timid knowledge of the outside world (general thing over the pond) and not in your face it is a negative.

Going back to the main thread your country would very much survive if it rolled the corporates from their over the top control of the capitalist system there. There are too many decent people suffering because you want to have troops marching everywhere and keep the armaments money barons happy. That is shameful.
"Quit you like men:be strong"