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Topic: Anthropogenic Global Warming (Read 206888 times)

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #575
You're hopeless. At this point, I'm meant defend what I never advocated. :faint:

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #576
Shouldn't the good ideas and their implementation simply win:)

No shit, Sherlock and that's what I called for. Any treaty is completely independent of anything I called for. You also make the fatal mistake as far as this argument goes in assuming that I give a rat's flea-infested ass about individuals and international organizations that you mentioned before. You drop the name of some climate scientist that in the Right's mind is discredited, which might be correct or not, but I seriously don't care. What I do care about is seeing this smog, note we get a failing grade for ozone pollution and I see a private way to make that happen without draconian regulations. So what's the problem? Well part of the problem is you make up positions for me, based on a lot of false assumptions.

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #577
From your cited source, Sang:
Quote
“The air in Las Vegas is certainly cleaner than when we started the ‘State of the Air’ report 14 years ago,” Amy Beaulieu, director of programs at the American Lung Association in Nevada, said in a statement.

“Even though Las Vegas experienced increases in unhealthy days of high ozone, the air quality is still better compared to a decade ago.”

Despite the low marks for ozone, the community continues to meet U.S. Environmental Protection Agency health standards for the pollutant, though just barely, said Dennis Ransel, planning manager for the Clark County Department of Air Quality.
“What we really worry about is how the EPA characterizes us. That’s the real boss,” he said.
But while he quibbles with some of the criteria the American Lung Association uses to arrive at its rankings, Ransel supports the overall message.
“It creates publicity and awareness that dirty air isn’t good for people,” he said of the association’s annual report. “The point is pollution is a serious problem.”

How so? I'd ask… Pollution is a serious problem, when it's less and less a problem?
I'd guess it's a "serious problem" for non-governmental groups and government bureaucrats who focus on such, that there's little to nothing to worry about… :)

I still don't understand what your interest is, in this topic, Sang — other than the given: Bashing what you think are "conservative" positions.

But I especially liked this, near the end of the piece:
Quote
California cities dominated the list of places with the dirtiest air. The six worst for ozone and the seven worst for year-round particulate pollution were all in the Golden State.

Two things catch my attention:
One, the conflation of ozone and "particulate matter" is scientifically unfounded.
And, two, California has taken the most stringent measures to curb "pollution" of every sort… So, why are we still the worst? :)

Again, I ask: What is your position on the topic of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming?
And what -if anything- do you think should be the role of a supranational organization to avert its horrible consequences? :) (Yes, I assume your position to be — prostate!)

As with ersi and Belfrager, so with you: Your view of the science is occluded by other and opaque films… So, you don't care to read the scientific papers; you don't care to engage in debate; you don't want to exchange ideas:
You only want to win, politically… I can see no other reason for your involvement, here.
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BTW: Nevada is a separate state and Las Vegas is a — Oh! I get it: The world has to accommodate your sensitivities… Or you'll stop providing prostitutes and slot machines! :)
Seriously, Sang: Why do you think your problem with lower atmosphere ozone is unique or even unusual? Is it even unnatural? :(
Show me the science… (Keep your opinion polls to yourself, and others like you. BUT DON'T FORGET TO VOTE FOR HILLARY! :) )
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Quote from: Midnight Raccoon link=topic=109.msg47662#msg47662 date=1445762212[quote
https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=109.msg47645#msg47645Shouldn't the good ideas and their implementation simply win?   :)
No shit, Sherlock and that's what I called for.In other words: You propose nothing, you oppose nothing… But you still like to insult people… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #578
I'd guess it's a "serious problem" for non-governmental groups and government bureaucrats who focus on such, that there's little to nothing to worry about…

You mean besides aggravating health problems for people with respiratory and heart issues? I'm not sure if it's even possible for you to give a more a biased and ignorant response. How is it possible to not know smog is a major health issue? Seriously.

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #579
(Sorry: formatting problems…) But:
You mean besides aggravating health problems for people with respiratory and heart issues? I'm not sure if it's even possible for you to give a more a biased and ignorant response. How is it possible to not know smog is a major health issue? Seriously.
Well, having lived in '60s Las Angeles for a while — I think I know better than you!
But -seriously, dude!- what would you have us do?
Smog is, in almost all places in the United States, not a major health issue… (Should we, if it would help!, sacrifice Las Vegas — to save a Chinese city?
Should Modesto become a pedestrian mall to save Las Vegas?
Are these alternatives in any way sensible?)
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I assume that's more than enough to riffs off of —
Perhaps we should strip the Earth's atmosphere of all the gasses that are "dangerous" and see how well that works…! :)
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Your stated goals and the means likely to achieve them require no "political" action at all — but you continue to argue…for what?
I wonder.
Perhaps you can enlighten me! (Ask your psychoanalyst… :) She might release some of your records to you. — I assume you can and will read… [No: Actually, I doubt both! :) There you go: I've given you the obligatory "insult"… :) ])
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I also assume that you don't care about any of this: You only want your side to win; at least, that's what you've always shown me…
Convince me otherwise.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #580
I'll get back to when, and if, I somehow think your "arguments" even deserve a response. The health effects of ozone pollution are well known and have been for decades. This isn't even liberal or conservative. It just is. In what way is arguing that this pollution is okay even conservative? It isn't even politics that disagrees with you, it's my lungs and throat that do.

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #581

(Sorry: formatting problems…)

If you mean the horizontal lines you are trying to produce, here's a piece of code to help you out:
Code: [Select]

[hr]


It would do good to you to change the topic for a while. For example, try to describe your workflow on the desktop like here https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=1425.msg46766#msg46766


Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #583
I've read the paper (and its supplemental…). Considerable emphasis should be placed upon that "may" — the boundary conditions derived from three GCMs are of questionable validity.
But it's good to know that some RCMs being refined.

Thanks for the link.


More important than what might happen in the Arabian peninsula 50+ years from now…
Is what is being done to the American economy now.

There's a lot to consider; and much perfidy and self-serving bad faith to counteract. So:
On to Paris! :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #584
More important than what might happen in the Arabian peninsula 50+ years from now…
Is what is being done to the American economy now.

Hrm that article, " Wasn’t the phlogiston theory of combustion the consensus at one time?" In the fucking 1600's, and centuries before the current  hypothetico-deductive model of the scientific method. AGW is wrong because people barely out of the middle ages believed something that was incorrect? The debunking of the consensus itself has been debunked. Oh well, attacking the exact percentage of the climatologists that agree with AGW has given the Righties a new windmill to tilt at. The majority of peer-reviewed papers on the subject still demonstrate that current climate change is man-made. (as noted before, we're actually in a period of reduced solar output. This means we should be in period of global cooling, not warming and there's nothing natural on the planet itself right now to cause global warming. What part of this is so hard to get?) I get way they attack the actual percentage. It's the strawman. Okay, I used a strawman myself by attacking when the author mentioned the phlogiston theory, but that was too retarded to ignore.

Ceres giving recommendations to insurance providers hardly seems to be damaging the economy at this time. One poster there complained that his home insurance premium had gone up. Could that have possibly been because of Sandy not far from there and had nothing to with Ceres?

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #585
Oh yeah, Oakdale, the "may" in all climate models is pretty well already understood. That's why multiple ones are run. :p some were way off, something deliberately going a worst case scenario, but others are more realistic. It's nearly impossible for any single model to include all possible variables. For instance, I don't believe the Persian Gulf model included the sun's behavior, so the region might become even hotter but not uninhabitable.

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #586
The debunking of the consensus itself has been debunked.
:) José Duarte disagrees… (If you'll read his post, you'll understand. Or not; in which case your college should refund your tuition.)


Oh yeah, Oakdale, the "may" in all climate models is pretty well already understood.
It seems not to be… And the reason for running model ensembles is best understood via the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy.
These are supposed to be (…intended to be) physical models, aren't they?
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #587
:)  José Duarte disagrees… (If you'll read his post, you'll understand. Or not; in which case your college should refund your tuition.)

Good thing you don't have tuition that needs refunded. The main guy that "debunked" the consensuses had to redact his own findings and his attempt was more valid that Duarte's silliness. Scroll up to find it, I'm not bothered to repeat it. Further, Duarte was incorrect about how the figure was arrived, so perhaps he's the one that needs a refund. I understand him in ways that you can't begin to comphrend. Either way, the 97% figure itself is not important and remains a strawman. Oh yeah, there was more than one survey that arrived at the conclusion that there is a general consensus among climatologists that the current global warming is manmade. Duarte and fellow travelers only want to single out Cook. Why is that? Oh yeah, and why did Duarte not link to Cook's actual study, but to a search form? I'm also noting Duarte is PHD candidate in social psychology and not a climatologists and that he's just some random blog you googled up :p

Also he some "genius" things about about non-climate papers being included in the consensuses. In fact, it was the debunkers that were caught doing that and had to admit to it.

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #588
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Body and health: When the Experts Disagree
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When the Experts Disagree: Even though I would think that by now we would be realizing that since a variety of diet approaches are safe and effective, the new ...
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APPENDIX V WHEN EXPERTS DISAGREE WHICH ONES SHALL WE BELIEVE? It surely falls within human ability to find a way by which the scientific community, in full ...

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #589
…I expected no less mores from you, Sang! :)
Either way, the 97% figure itself is not important and remains a strawman. Oh yeah, there was more than one survey that arrived at the conclusion that there is a general consensus among climatologists that the current global warming is manmade. Duarte and fellow travelers only want to single out Cook. Why is that?

If the 97% figure is not important, and a strawman — why do you continue to use it? :) Mere credulity, or a milder variant of The Big Lie technique of propaganda?
Yes, there have been a few "studies" reaching (a less compelling) conclusion of consensus among climate scientists… As Duarte says (elsewhere on his site, a little more than half-way down the page, titled
Climate science is biased, but right)
Quote
Over the last few months, I've been alarmed by what I've discovered in looking into the research on the climate science consensus. There's clearly a consensus on AGW, but many of the research reports on the consensus are remarkably shoddy, clearly biased, and would not survive a social science review process. In some cases, the researchers seem to have no training in how to conduct such studies, because they're political activists, not researchers. Since the consensus will be there no matter what, it's amazing that people feel the need to inflate it, to rig it.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (2014) broke my heart, by releasing a wildly unscientific report that cherry-picked only the studies that gave it the inflated consensus figures it wanted -- many of which are so bad as to be inadmissable. When scientists want to review a body of research, they conduct a meta-analysis that includes all the research that meets certain criteria of rigor and validity. The AAAS strangely chose not to perform a meta-analysis -- they simply ignored most studies, and cherry-picked four studies that gave them the inflated, shock-value numbers they wanted. Among the four was an obsolete one-page study from 2004 that doesn't clearly describe its methods (Oreskes, 2004, yes, really, one page long). That is, they skipped past all the more recent and credible studies from the intervening decade (e.g. Harris (2007), Bray and van Storch (2008), and others) to reach all the way back to a junk study from 2004. I've never seen such behavior – we clearly can't do anything with mysterious one-pagers from 2004. This isn't what I expected.

It's clear that some climate scientists bring their politics into this. They leap to policy prescriptions and seem unaware of their ideological assumptions. Scientists are surprisingly not well-trained in separating ideological assumptions from descriptive facts, and don't seem to run bias-correction algorithms on themselves. Climate science displays many of the classic signs of groupthink, and the tenor of the debate is disturbingly hostile and malicious as a result.
Duarte is a "fellow traveler"? :)
Here's what he wrote following the above-quoted paragraphs:
Quote
That AGW is true has no inherent implications for policy. For one thing, severity or magnitude will matter. If the warming is only 1° C, that's a very different scenario than a 6° C change. Global warming is not a dichotomous or binary thing – it's a matter of degree, in every sense. You need to do some serious work to get from 1) AGW is true, to 2) Do something! We might value economic prosperity more than some increment of climate stasis. We'd also have to establish whether we owe the people of 2100 a very specific band of temperatures, and a very specific range of sea levels -- that's not obvious. We'd have to decide whether government should be an open-ended, unconstrained, intergenerational welfare-maximization engine, or a protector of individual rights on human lifespan timescales. There is a substantial body of evidence detailing the harms of giving government a coercive role in economic life -- see public choice theory, rent-seeking, regulatory capture, the knowledge problem, general economics, Hayek, Buchanan, Easterly, Cowen, Mankiw, Caplan, Epstein, the history of the 20th century, etc. (and many economists disagree with them -- I'm puzzled why economics isn't more unified.) There will be deep philosophical and ethical differences on whether we have the right to coerce billions of people for an unclear likelihood of preventing a 2-4 C increase in global mean surface temperatures by 2100. None of this is self-evident -- people will disagree.
It seems to me that your problem is with that last phrase: Disagreement with your views is anathema…
As with some prominent climate scientists, the Party Line must be toed! :) Carry on, Comrade! :)
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@Jaybro: But… But! Disagreement is not allowed! It's heretical:)
Surely, you understand why that must be so in climatology, no?
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #590
And who the hell is Duarte anyway and who cares? Where's his own climate study? Oh, he doesn't have one, being a social psychology student. That's a like a geologist disputing a microbiologist over the structure of a newly discovered type of bacteria.

Yes, the 97% is a strawman because  the science behind AGW has not been successfully challenged so they resort to trying to lower the number of climatologists that agree with AGW. Yet, the "skeptics" are having a hard to time finding that the majority of people in the field disagreeing. Where's the study showing 47% (a random number) agree?

Where's another explanation to climate change that makes any sense at all? That's what I need from you and the only thing I'll accept. I don't need some random blog, but a peer reviewed published academic paper from a respected journal.


Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #592
I have a suspicion that NO other explanation would be acceptable to our resident raccoon. He could have a glacier advancing on Las Vegas, only 5 miles away--- and still wouldn't listen to anything except "97% Consensus that AGW is real".

That's really the problem with this whole discussion. Reality has nothing to do with it--- it's all about politics and position papers and getting funding from various sources. Right now---- choose your sources. One side says ice in the arctic and antarctic regions is disappearing at a frightening pace--- the other side says there's MORE ice rather than less. My problem is the same as yours--- unable to go there and measure it for myself, I have to take "experts" word for it. Both sides have reason and to spare to fudge things to get the results they want, and you and I can only take their word for it.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #593
Where's another explanation to climate change that makes any sense at all? That's what I need from you and the only thing I'll accept.
For the most part, natural variability covers it better than the enhanced CO2 forcing… We have -given modern proxie studies- more than a hundred thousand years of data (remember the Keeling paper I linked to…). This is not to say that atmospheric CO2 has no effect on global (or regional) temperatures; but merely that the current emphasis in "the field of climatology" (which had to throw out how many hundreds of years' observations, to accommodate this control knob theory…) has set it back a hundred years or so — albeit, while making quite a few careers and very many lucrative government jobs!
Of course, when you say "makes any sense at all" what you mean is "that we can control" — or am I wrong about that? :)
Yes, the 97% is a strawman because  the science behind AGW has not been successfully challenged so they resort to trying to lower the number of climatologists that agree with AGW.
This statement (and others quite similar…) is one of the reasons I don't take you seriously: That paper was not climate science, it was sociology — your major, if I remember correctly! And you don't care how bad it was, as long as you can use it to support your side of the argument…

The theory of CO2-forced CAGW refutes itself, by the comparison of its predictions with widespread and better and better observations…

BTW: Duarte is a legitimate social scientist. (I can't say -at least not here :)- what you are. But I can say that you are wrong, if you think Cook, et al.'s 97% paper was acceptable social science…)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #594
BTW: Duarte is a legitimate social scientist.

So he determines what's climate changing....  :zzz:
And we are the ones accused of having a political agenda....
A matter of attitude.

Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #595
So he determines what's climate changing....   :zzz:
No, of course not! (And he agrees with AGW theory — which you could have read…) He does -as a social scientist- get to call BS on social science studies so bad that charges of fraud as well as incompetence are creditably made.
But perhaps that point is too complicated, for some. :)
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You might like this post at Judith Curry's site: Conflicts of interest in climate science. Part II
(It's not a long nor technical post…)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #597
What does it make one think of — primarily?
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Reply #599
Perhaps, Bel. But it's more likely why I posted it here:)
Did you have a comment, about the post's topic and info?
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)