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Topic: Freee Speech… (Read 56520 times)
  • OakdaleFTL
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Freee Speech…
The U.S. Supreme Court recently refused to reconsider a 9th Circuit decision that –among other things– enshrined the "heckler's veto" in our law-fare…

The point of contention was whether high school students should be allowed something akin to "free speech". Various courts have decided not.
Their reasoning is curious, to say the least!

In 1969 the Supreme Court said the exact opposite. (Black arm bands worn by students, in opposition to the Vietnam war…)

What has changed?

I'd say, that the acceptance of the heckler's veto is actually desired, by some.
(That's not unusual: But it is -as we like to think of ourselves- un-American!)
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I'd like to remind those who don't read history that the Battle of Puebla was fought against the French (in 1862, when the U.S. was preoccupied…) :)
Must we now bow to gross ignorance, as well as "hurt feelings"?
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If schools cannot teach, why should we fund them? :)
  • Last Edit: 2015-03-31, 07:58:22 by OakdaleFTL
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #25 –
Good points there Belfrager. We have a monarch and no bits of paper like the Yanks fight over and misuse for the arrogant corporate string-pullers.  :queen:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #26 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL – on
If schools cannot teach, why should we fund them?  :)

Because you fund everything that you are forced to fund. Not your option what you fund or not.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #27 –
If schools are not funded, then who or what will do the teaching? Streets? Church? Which one do you prefer?

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #28 –
The question is not to fund schools or not, the question is to fund schools that destroy your children or not. I said you have no option, you are forced to fund schools that destroys your children.
Unless you rebel, but you don't.

By the way, best schools are, always have been and will ever be from the Catholic Church, namely owned by Jesuits. These are private schools, no one is forced to fund it and most are not even allowed to put their children there. Superior education is not for everybody.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Belfrager – on
By the way, best schools are, always have been and will ever be from the Catholic Church, namely owned by Jesuits.

The proof of which is...?
What does "best" mean?
Quote
Although some Catholic clergy, religious orders and Popes owned slaves, and the naval galleys of the Papal States were to use captured Muslim galley slaves, Roman Catholic teaching began to turn more strongly against "unjust" forms of slavery in general, beginning in 1435, prohibiting the enslavement of the recently baptised, culminating in pronouncements by Pope Paul III in 1537.
However when the Age of Discovery greatly increased the number of slaves owned by Christians, the response of the church, under strong political pressures, was confused and ineffective in preventing the establishment of slave societies in the colonies of Catholic countries. Papal bulls such as Dum Diversas, Romanus Pontifex and their derivatives, sanctioned slavery and were used to justify enslavement of natives and the appropriation of their lands during this era.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #31 –
Harvard is a Jesuit school. Because Jews study there, Jesus was a Jew, and Jesuits are named after Jesus. Everybody knows this.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #32 –
Logic rules!

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #33 –
Quote from: ersi – on

Harvard is a Jesuit school. Because Jews study there, Jesus was a Jew, and Jesuits are named after Jesus. Everybody knows this.

I have to agree with Barulheira, even though I didn't know it. On the other hand...

====================
Did any of know that Barulheira means noise? Now that you do know it, are you surprised?

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 – on
I'm still waiting for an answer, Mr. Belfrager.

Sorry Mr Jimbro, I forgot entirely about you. My fault.
Quote from: Jimbro3738 – on
You might take a look at this listing of top universities in the world.

No I don't. Hardly Saxons can pretend to be someone in the world of education.
Any ignorant not aware of the role Jesuits had, have and will keep on having in the education of elites all over the world obviously doesn't deserves my attention.
Quote from: ersi – on
Jesus was a Jew

You think so? Or did he fought the Jews that killed him? Learn a little bit more.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Belfrager – on
No I don't. Hardly Saxons can pretend to be someone in the world of education.
Any ignorant not aware of the role Jesuits had, have and will keep on having in the education of elites all over the world obviously doesn't deserves my attention.

Rule # 1: If you can't answer the question, say something in Portuguese English and have a dish of Arroz de pato.
Rule # 2: Return to Rule # 1.
 

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 – on
This kind of language doesn't belong here, Belfrager.

It's not needed that's for sure. But as it's the "free speech" thread, I'll try to ignore it. Not that I am condoning it though Belfrager.
Quoting it, doesn't really help matters.
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #38 –
When my father was learning German he invented a new swear word.
It was "railway ticket to a sleighride" in German, said slowly with venom.
Look it up.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #39 –
Quote from: Colonel Rebel – on
To be fair though, that did escalate rather quickly. [referring to Belfrager's cussing…]
I actually remember the so-called Free Speech Movement (…on American -specifically, Californian, campuses); and I remember Sam Hayakawa's response. :)
Those "brave free speech advocates" mostly wanted to be able to curse in public. And to be able to shout down anyone they disagreed with. Such remains the focus of "liberal" free speech concerns…

I don't think Jimbro will be put-off by a few expletives… Specially, a repeated one, as if Belfrager had read White and Strunk's Elements of Style… :) (He taught AP English Literature, which helped to indoctrinate introduce high-schoolers to a more sophisticated understanding of such language!) American sign-language used to be limited to "giving the finger"!
Deaf people are smarter. But their opinions are seldom promulgated beyond their cohort.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #40 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL – on
(He taught AP English Literature, which helped to indoctrinate introduce high-schoolers to a more sophisticated understanding of such language!)

An understanding that the very book breaks just about every nonsensical rule they made up? ;) One wonders if it isn't some kind of prank that was taken seriously… cf. e.g. http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #41 –
I can't imagine that Jaybro would recommend Strunk and White… Whatever our differences, he speaks English! The Elements of Style shows people how not to reach for them…
Jimbro respects the language, and its speakers. (At least, I think he does.) When he taught, that was the least of his lessons -no doubt. But it was a requisite…
I don't think I'm wrong.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #42 –
So. I goes, like, Jeeze, what the hell are we talkin' about?
Can we talk about anything, without invoking the 1st Amendment, first? Does at least a Circuit Court have to "sign off" on our speech, before we can speak? Some sort of government tribunal, some bunch of bureaucrats…?
I piss people off on a regular basis. (I'm talented, that way.) But would you really like the government to step in and keep me from putting my foot in my mouth…?

I'd ask you to think about it.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #43 –
Quote from: OakdaleFTL – on
I don't think Jimbro will be put-off by a few expletives… Specially, a repeated one, as if Belfrager had read White and Strunk's Elements of Style…  :)  (He taught AP English Literature, which helped to indoctrinate introduce high-schoolers to a more sophisticated understanding of such language!) American sign-language used to be limited to "giving the finger"!

I spent four years in the Navy, so expletives come easy to me. And, as I just mentioned in the Lounge, I just installed a toilet seat, a task that elicited more than one expletive, here deleted.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #44 –
Quote from: Luxor – on


It's not needed that's for sure. But as it's the "free speech" thread, I'll try to ignore it. Not that I am condoning it though Belfrager.
Quoting it, doesn't really help matters.


As such it is clearly misplaced in such a civilised place as D&D. Thus moved to the Testing Board, for those testing indiduals who are too often bored.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #45 –
Quote from: jax – on
Thus moved to the Testing Board,

1. Now you put it again to where I posted it. My posts are my intellectual property, not yours. You don't use them as it pleases you.

2. I don't renounce to my right to answer to insults and the way I answer them is my prerogative, not something limited by you.

3. You solve divergences of opinion and interpretation between moderators privately, not using my posts for that.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #46 –
Thin ice alert: Bel, you're on it. Tread carefully.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #47 –
Good advice. But I'd much rather watch him stamp his little foot in a tantrum and the thinner the ice the better.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #48 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 – on
Thin ice alert

That's a good allegory, a good image.
It applies well to free speech, Thin ice free speech - copyright by USA.

There's a real and important problem with the import of US rules, terms, conditions, eula and whatever to be applied to non American citizens at international forums.
If most of the time it doesn't interfere with the normal process of debates and discussions there is however moments when it's totally unwise to use such rules as kind of taser pistols American's police way.

Curiously, it was a non American to do that, while Luxor and Mjm showed common sense and politeness. I'm very disappointed with you jax.
Well, such is life.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #49 –
Bel, you may be less thrilled with me when you find that I just moved a post by Krake for the exact same reason. Free speech comes with responsibility, you know. Exercising your ability to use foul language on a publicly accessible forum doesn't really come into that realm.

Here in the States we've practically enshrined the First Amendment. However, if you broadcast on the radio or on TV, expect to get the station license yanked if you can't control your mouth. Uttering a string of expletives is not acceptable in most forums I've ever been part of.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!