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Topic: Freee Speech… (Read 22741 times)

Freee Speech…

The U.S. Supreme Court recently refused to reconsider a 9th Circuit decision that –among other things– enshrined the "heckler's veto" in our law-fare

The point of contention was whether high school students should be allowed something akin to "free speech". Various courts have decided not.
Their reasoning is curious, to say the least!

In 1969 the Supreme Court said the exact opposite. (Black arm bands worn by students, in opposition to the Vietnam war…)

What has changed?

I'd say, that the acceptance of the heckler's veto is actually desired, by some.
(That's not unusual: But it is -as we like to think of ourselves- un-American!)
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I'd like to remind those who don't read history that the Battle of Puebla was fought against the French (in 1862, when the U.S. was preoccupied…) :)
Must we now bow to gross ignorance, as well as "hurt feelings"?
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If schools cannot teach, why should we fund them? :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #1
I'm glad you are freeeee to use how many eeeeeeees you'd like without being annoyed by anyone.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #2
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

And shouting fire in a crowded Kid Rock concert?

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #3
Most free speech is worth every penny.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #4
Perhaps, but this penny costs $12.95, and that ain't free!

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #5
Heavens what an example of the cost of free speech!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #6
BTW ....... while contemplating free speeeeeeech, what has become of our resident     procyonid?

He have a meltdown, & shit himself?  I woulda loved to read that, but I guess I somehow missed it.

Anyone gotta link?

Miss the lil bugger! 

  Or is that booger?  

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #7

BTW ....... while contemplating free speeeeeeech, what has become of our resident     procyonid?

He have a meltdown, & shit himself?  I woulda loved to read that, but I guess I somehow missed it.

Anyone gotta link?

Miss the lil bugger! 

  Or is that booger?  

I also am curious as to what happened to Sang?  :bandit:

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #8
I also am curious as to what happened to Sang?

He deleted his account as far as I can tell.
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.


Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #10
Sang: I hope you're well, and I'll miss your posts.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #11
Heavens is that a sober comment?!  :no:
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #12
Teetotalers have no excuse for their inanities… :)
But I would miss Sang -drunk or sober- because, well, he posted — and sometimes to the point. (Some people never do that…) 
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #13
I'd like to remind those who don't read history that the Battle of Puebla was fought against the French (in 1862, when the U.S. was preoccupied…)  :)
Must we now bow to gross ignorance, as well as "hurt feelings"?

And those who are unaware of the exploits of Gilles de Rais and Ilse Koch. Ignorance abounds in these dark regions. Thanks, OakdaleFTL, for shining light into the dark recesses of DnD.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #14
I'd also like to remind those who only pop in and out of conversations without bothering to acquaint themselves with the topic(s) that their snark is unbecoming… :) (But some are past caring. Oh, well.)
Nice picture, 'tho.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #15
Well considering your love affair with John Barleycorn Oakdale,  I fail to see how you can give a balanced view on sense!
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #16
I fail to see how you can give a balanced view on sense!
Of course you do! For you, only the appearance matters… And the mirrors of your mind are your only reference.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)


Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #18
Did he considered DnD as a gangrenous purulence putting his life in risk?

Not being a mind reader, I have no way of knowing that.  :P
The start and end to every story is the same. But what comes in between you have yourself to blame.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #19
To whom are you speaking, tt92? :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #20
Since I create (and edit — hey!? Can you do that? :) I don't think so…) the titles of threads I start I have to assume others do as well.

In this case (as is likely in many others…) my particularly American (U.S.) viewpoint and focus may confuse others… (Sorry 'bout that.) But the topic -Free Speech- happens to be prominently mentioned to our 1st Amendment to our Constitution. It's important — to most of us.
In Great Britain, her dependencies, Europe and -almost- everywhere else in the world, our idea of Free Speech is rejected, rebutted, restricted, remonstrated or ridiculed: These others don't like it.
I respect their right to feel as they do. (As I bemoan their proclivity to adhere to their feelings…)

What I don't and won't accept is a "heckler's veto" eviscerating that 1st Amendment right to Free Speech. Not in the U.S. …

I began this thread with a story that continues to this day.

Should we have "hate speech" laws? Anti-defamation laws? Blasphemy laws? Laws banning (or sanctioning) "religious" insult?

You may not want to go as far as we did, originally. But dare you go as far as so many others will, eventually?

Free men will not submit to tyranny. (The corollary is that those who submit to tyranny are not free… Trust me on this: I know logic! :) )

Giving the power to circumscribe speech to your government means the end of whatever freedom you ever aspired to…
It's only a matter of time.

But of course freedom may not be something you need, or even want…
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #21
Giving the power to circumscribe speech to your government means the end of whatever freedom you ever aspired to…
It's only a matter of time.

It's funny you saying that because yesterday I read an article that quoted your ex president Gerald Ford as saying: a state big enough to give you everything you want i's also big enough to take everything from you.

Wise words that applies to freedom of expression. Being freedom of expression a natural right you don't have it because it says in some paper, call it constitution or whatever. If you make it depend from a paper, it can be taken from you with simply another paper.
That's why you need a King not a piece of paper.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #22
Wise words that applies to freedom of expression. […]
That's why you need a King not a piece of paper.
What? And have regicide be the only recourse? :)

Seriously, re-read our Declaration of Independence, Belfrager. It explains a lot that you don't understand…

Or -if you haven't the patience to reference that document- I'll give you the gist:
Government is a compact with the people governed. The "piece of paper" you mistakenly think is the guarantee of our rights merely describes the duties of said government, failure to perform which is just cause to legitimately "dissolve" such… The paper and the government's adherence to it are what secures the existence and persistence of the government.

Statists, of course, disagree… :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #23
Government is a compact with the people governed. The "piece of paper" you mistakenly think is the guarantee of our rights merely describes the duties of said government, failure to perform which is just cause to legitimately "dissolve" such… The paper and the government's adherence to it are what secures the existence and persistence of the government.

Nothing you added alters the nature of that piece of paper, very much the contrary, still a mere piece of paper that any other paper will have a similar value.

Maybe you want to defend such paper as a Pact, probably a Social Pact it's what you want to say. If so, I regret to inform you that one of the parts - the government, has long ago ceased to honor the Pact. Your paper it's useless, the government wasn't and never will be dissolved.
Or do you need more pretexts than the NSA spying the entire American population? I think not.

Your reasoning seems to me equal to Smleyfaze's "right" to have an armed militia and blá blá blá, both suffering from some mysterious form of hope on the "holy paper". As a result, you don't have your sovereignty and he doesn't have his militia.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Freee Speech…

Reply #24

In this case (as is likely in many others…) my particularly American (U.S.) viewpoint and focus may confuse others… (Sorry 'bout that.) But the topic -Free Speech- happens to be prominently mentioned to our 1st Amendment to our Constitution. It's important — to most of us.
In Great Britain, her dependencies, Europe and -almost- everywhere else in the world, our idea of Free Speech is rejected, rebutted, restricted, remonstrated or ridiculed: These others don't like it.
I respect their right to feel as they do. (As I bemoan their proclivity to adhere to their feelings…)


I would give more credence to that statement if you had taken the time to actually study other countries' governance, in this case their ideas, origin, application of and formula for free speech. Free speech is not usually considered an issue of contention, particularly not between the US and "Great Britain, her dependencies, Europe".

In many cases European and other countries has copied US implementations and ideas, as they worked better than what they had been stuck with, but the US largely inherited their free speech from Britain (with some inflow from other European countries). Free speech was no novelty at the time of the independence of the US, nor in the centuries thereafter. This is not an aspect of governance where the US has been ahead of the curve, nor behind it. How it actually has been applied on the other hand has varied between any two countries.  These differences are illuminating and interesting, platitudes are not.

More typical than free speech (in any country) being "rejected, rebutted, restricted, remonstrated or ridiculed", is unconsidered celebration of free speech. Free speech is considered, as a given, terribly, terribly, terribly important, without any thought for why it is terribly, terribly, terribly important, or what would happen in its absence. Free speech is our only safeguard against a Nazi nightmare. Free speech is important, but is no bulwark against tyranny.

Incidentally, as a recently enumerated member of the Swedish set, I now have recourse both to a "paper" (a constitution, actually a succession of constitutions) and a "king" (a monarchy, actually a succession of monarchs). Sweden had constitutionally enshrined freedom of the press in 1766, before the US Constitution, indeed before the United States. Freedom was in vogue in the 18th century, a more novel idea was government transparency, also enshrined in the same constitution.