Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #50 – 2016-08-27, 09:11:04 Quote from: ersi on 2016-08-26, 18:24:05Reinvented Greek/Italian/Belorussian rather. A very questionable mix. Anybody who takes a cursory look would come up with some easy improvements within minutes. Because it's technically incompetent like this, I would be cautious about the social ideas behind it too.More precisely put, I meant that it's something of an artificially created pidgin/creole hoping to attain the status of an English or French, but with a slightly different language emphasis. Except it seems to lack the ease and simplification of an actual pidgin in terms of phonemes and the like. Nor does it seem to have put much thought into how universal those phonemes are outside or possibly even inside Europe. I note your webpage makes the same criticisms with more detail.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #51 – 2016-08-27, 14:32:20 Quote from: jax on 2016-08-27, 07:29:10"Native words"? I assume by that, and your count, you don't count words with an origin to be "true" English. You wouldn't find many words in Portugese without Latin, Celtic, Gothic, Arab, English... origin. Even "new" words usually have an origin. Wrong, we've many paleo-iberian languages and even writing. In fact, Tartessian is the only known writing that spreaded from west to east. (It's interesting to know how linguists determines that. Tartassian has three known variations, spreading in area and time, the more recent at the eastern part of the Peninsula, the older in the western part.As other initial writings, the older variation often repeats characters (because they had to engrave it again) something that doesn't happen to the newest (having already a better engraving thecnique).)So, it's not initial languages that adopted new words, it was a new language (Latin) that latinized old words.The God Endovelic comes from the Latin Endovelicus which was a latinization of theTurdule word for the God. No one knows how it was exactly spelled but the sound would have been somehow close to the way Romans said.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #52 – 2016-08-28, 02:48:54 Quote from: rjhowie on 2016-08-23, 19:23:23Putin is not an idiot and very much obvious as clever and well educated.I don't recall anyone saying otherwise. But he seems to be making the European mistake of thinking Americans are. 1 Likes
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #53 – 2016-08-28, 13:46:32 Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-08-28, 02:48:54But he seems to be making the European mistake of thinking Americans are.Russia has been creating many different think tanks, news agencies and general websites in order to combat American and NATO information and influence.This is a not neutral article on that: A Powerful Russian Weapon: The Spread of False Storieshttp://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/29/world/europe/russia-sweden-disinformation.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #54 – 2016-08-28, 14:22:55 Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-28, 13:46:32This is a not neutral article on that: A Powerful Russian Weapon: The Spread of False Storieshttp://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/29/world/europe/russia-sweden-disinformation.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-newsNo, it isn't. It's the sort of cheap propaganda it blames Russia for.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #55 – 2016-08-28, 16:47:07 Indeed it is.So, both sides use information's manipulation and propaganda. It happens that one of those sides is also our side.Europe is not some sort of "Third Way" some pretends it to be. Either we shift totally into Russia's direction or we remain under "protection" (and orders) of the Americans. I doubt that many Europeans will trust Putin so much for doing it, I certainly don't.The EU it's the only project that could free Europe from Americans and resist to the Russian appetite while defending Europe's interests in terms of world wide strategy. For that to happen we would need a strong leadership and a common objective. We have none.As you know, rats are already leaving the ship.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #56 – 2016-08-28, 17:37:28 Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-28, 16:47:07Either we shift totally into Russia's direction or we remain under "protection" (and orders) of the Americans.Everybody is entitled to have his own opinion. So are you. BTW,it was nice under the protection of the British Empire. Wasn't it? At least as long as you have not gotten your ass kicked.Wish you all the luck under American protection. Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-28, 16:47:07As you know, rats are already leaving the ship.You mean: Rats are leaving the sinking ship.However, you are entitled to be angry - a net payer less...
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #57 – 2016-08-28, 18:57:09 Well unfortunately Midnight a great many Americans unfortunately are silly in hard practice. I have watched that Clinton mouth coming out with some ridiculous accusations against Russia. If the USA doesn't control something or somebody then heaven help them. Belfager falls into the propaganda threshold as well. With a long history in America re the Cold War the people have been well propagated into the Russia fury syndrome quite easily. The media there and across the West is very much in the Goebells track so heaven help any place that does not give in to US interest or control. The modern Cold War is handy for Hill buffoons and those brained by them. Russia has no intention of trying to run the world like America and has the sense not to equate military corners either.mode.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #58 – 2016-08-28, 19:36:06 Quote from: krake on 2016-08-28, 17:37:28You mean: Rats are leaving the sinking ship.The ship Germans sunk twice and are sinking for a third time.Quote from: krake on 2016-08-28, 17:37:28However, you are entitled to be angry - a net payer less...For finishing with the "net payer" clownery forever, people must know that the entire EU budget it's inferior to 2% of each country budget.From that, Germans pays less than 15%.What are you paying for? toilet paper?A less net robber, that's for sure.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #59 – 2016-08-28, 21:06:20 Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-28, 19:36:06What are you paying for? toilet paper?Worse.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #60 – 2016-08-29, 14:14:09 Call it what you want, what that money does is to assure your employment while destroying everybody's else.In other words, the money is the façade to hide how to build a superavit by forcing other's deficit.Good to people to know that just yesterday a new EU's proceedings open so people can receive a subside for.... destroying their agricultural cultures. Funny isn't it?Why? because a couple months ago, unilaterally, Brussels decided to reduce (again and again and again) Portugal's quota for some agricultural products.People has no other option but to try to receive a few centimes for their administratively destroyed way of life.That's how it has been done respecting all and every economic areas, it's not an accident, it's a plan, it's not an union, it's a conquest.With GB's exit, I doubt the German propaganda can resist to the "unsuspected" Guardian publishing in detail how everything has been done. That's what the two years period will serve, to negotiate for their silence by offering highly beneficial trade agreements.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #61 – 2016-08-29, 15:40:12 Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-29, 14:14:09Good to people to know that just yesterday a new EU's proceedings open so people can receive a subside for.... destroying their agricultural cultures. Funny isn't it?Why? because a couple months ago, unilaterally, Brussels decided to reduce (again and again and again) Portugal's quota for some agricultural products.The BS you are spreading isn't funny at all.Receiving subsidies for doing nothing? I would call it a generous offer.Nobody is forcing you to destroy your agricultural culture. You can still produce as much as you can or want to.Only thing you'll have to do is to find new markets for your products. The EU won't buy your overproduction out of charity.You can thank your 'protector' for imposing an export ban on one of Europe's best trading partners.It was a double edged sword meant to weaken that country and Europe as well. A brilliant move b.t.w.Maybe you can export from now on your agricultural products to your 'protector' instead, because your former market seems to be lost for an indefinite time...BTW, Portugal is neither the only nor the most affected country within the EU.Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-29, 14:14:09That's how it has been done respecting all and every economic areas, it's not an accident, it's a plan, it's not an union, it's a conquest.Once again Mr. Loudmouth - neither did anybody force you to join the union nor are you kept there by force!
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #62 – 2016-08-29, 17:28:35 Quote from: krake on 2016-08-29, 15:40:12Receiving subsidies for doing nothing? I would call it a generous offer.Nobody is forcing you to destroy your agricultural culture. You can still produce as much as you can or want to.Only thing you'll have to do is to find new markets for your products. The EU won't buy your overproduction out of charity.Clearly Germany is not governed by you... This is not a matter of supply and demand, this is an administrative rule to stop us competing with your much higher cost and less quality products. You subsidize your products by way of illegal commerce prohibitions and illegal dumping and mascarade everything under a "net payer" position that only fools your average German voter.You, in agriculture, means France, your partners.As for industry, the scheme goes analog, you meaning you.You're representing very well the immense stupidification of the European middle classes about the basics procedures in real life production, trading. and usage of financial instruments.Quote from: krake on 2016-08-29, 15:40:12Once again Mr. Loudmouth - neither did anybody force you to join the union nor are you kept there by force!It's your abusive takeover over the European project that nobody has ever authorized.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #63 – 2016-08-29, 17:58:15 Quote from: Frenzie on 2016-08-27, 09:11:04More precisely put, I meant that it's something of an artificially created pidgin/creole* hoping to attain the status of an English or French,** but with a slightly different language emphasis. Except it seems to lack the ease and simplification of an actual pidgin in terms of phonemes and the like. Nor does it seem to have put much thought into how universal those phonemes are outside or possibly even inside Europe. I note your webpage makes the same criticisms with more detail.Yes, that's what you meant, except that the writer I pointed out has actual grasp of linguistics, which you would do well to learn from. Different from you, he never says "Esperanto" when he means constructed languages in general. He says Esperanto when he means Esperanto and nothing else. Moreover, he is not only capable of detail, but also of comparative analysis, which is the essence of linguistics. * More precisely, you meant pidgin/creole when you said "English"** And here you mean lingua franca when you say "an English or French"
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #64 – 2016-08-29, 19:29:30 Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-29, 17:28:35Clearly Germany is not governed by you...Of course not. Otherwise I wouldn't have the time for replying to all your nonsense. Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-29, 17:28:35This is not a matter of supply and demand, this is an administrative rule to stop us competing with your much higher cost and less quality products.Not a matter of supply and demand? Really?Be aware that this is an article from September 20, 2014.Things have worsened considerable for many European farmers (and not only farmers) since.However. if it makes you feel better, feel free to blame Putin for staging the putsch in the Ukraine or for reacting to the export ban imposed by our 'protector'.Whomever you will try to blame (Putin, Merkel, Hollande, Cthulhu, ... - take your pick) it won't change the facts.Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-29, 17:28:35You, in agriculture, means France, your partners.Except for some French specialties I can't see many products from France in our big shopping malls.BTW, what do you think we import from Eastern Europe? Hi-tech?Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-08-29, 17:28:35Quote from: krake on 2016-08-29, 15:40:12Once again Mr. Loudmouth - neither did anybody force you to join the union nor are you kept there by force!It's your abusive takeover over the European project that nobody has ever authorized.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #65 – 2016-08-29, 19:31:17 A revived Cold War makes the corporate armaments industry rub it's hands.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #66 – 2016-08-29, 22:13:06 Quote from: krake on 2016-08-29, 19:29:30BTW, what do you think we import from Eastern Europe? Hi-tech?Eastern Europe? poor idiots, the next slaves to supply the German Reich.
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #67 – 2016-08-30, 09:50:40 Quote from: ersi on 2016-08-29, 17:58:15Yes, that's what you meant, except that the writer I pointed out has actual grasp of linguistics, which you would do well to learn from. Different from you, he never says "Esperanto" when he means constructed languages in general. He says Esperanto when he means Esperanto and nothing else. Moreover, he is not only capable of detail, but also of comparative analysis, which is the essence of linguistics.I apologize if I somehow gave the impression that I was doing something more in-depth than recounting my superficial impression of Esperanto from many years ago. Which, to be clear, means I could be completely wrong about the language. I certainly wouldn't recognize Belarusian properties without a comparative table of the features of Slavic languages, and I thought the "leaves me cold" part strongly implied I've never even thought about doing such a thing. Nevertheless I sometimes wonder if, when asked if you can pass the salt, you answer that you can. Quote* More precisely, you meant pidgin/creole when you said "English"** And here you mean lingua franca when you say "an English or French"No, on both counts I did not. English and French have all of the connotations I had in mind for the analogy, which are much wider than merely the fact that it's possible that English is a creole. If I meant "lingua franca" you could replace "English or French" with not only the phrase "lingua franca", but also with any random number of linguae francae, like "Spanish or Russian" or "Arabic or Chinese."[1] English is a Germanic language, possibly a creole, with a particularly strong Romance substrate, while French is the Romance language with the strongest Germanic substrate.[2] Even a language like Spanish isn't comparable here because through its considerable Arabic substrate it's missing the European component of the equation, although I may be underestimating the Visigoth influence.To paraphrase slightly better what I said before, at a cursory glance Esperanto appears to be essentially English (or to a lesser extent French) reinvented from a slightly more eastern but still very much European perspective (i.e., with a Slavic instead of Germanic component) without much thought given, if any, to its supposed universality with regard to phonemes in particular. Esperanto appeared to me, quite possibly incorrectly, as primarily a mix of Czech/Polish/Italian. But in light of the tone of your post I feel more satisfaction than I should (considering I shouldn't be feeling any at all) at the fact that your author describes Esperanto as "some sort of wind‐up‐toy Czech/Italian pidgin."I posted a first draft of this reply yesterday which you may have seen, although I deleted it after a few minutes, but I've since given some more thought to what prompted me to compose such a long reply. I realized it's not that you accused me of making a mistake, and the fact that my forum posts tend to be conceptual first drafts at best is a criticism I fully accept but don't intend to act on. Because that is simply the nature of forum posts as far as I'm concerned. What ticked me off is that you wrote "you mean Y." You can say what amounts to the exact same thing inoffensively by prefixing "if I understand you correctly."If I understand you correctly, you mean Y.Did you mean Y?Could you clarify what you meant by X?1 The fact that I didn't simply mean lingua franca should reveal itself from the nonsensical resulting phrase "hoping to attain the status of [a lingua franca], but with a slightly different language emphasis." In which case you should ask, a slightly different language emphasis that what? The answer is, of course, a lingua franca consisting of a mishmash of two (Indo-)European language families like English or French.↵2 See, e.g., Wartburg, Walther von (1971): Évolution et structure de la langue française, Bern, Francke, 10e éd. As an aside, I understand the Frankish influence to be morphosyntactically much stronger in French than e.g. the Slavic influence on Romanian, in spite of e.g. the much higher degree of Slavic vocabulary in Romanian than Frankish vocabulary in French. There was a prolonged period of diglossia between the fifth and ninth century.↵ 1 Likes
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #68 – 2016-08-31, 06:54:33 Those dang extraterrestrials have managed to confuse us mightily! Whose government will step up to deal with them first? Canada? Russia? China? The U.S.? Hm.Quote from: rjhowie on 2016-08-29, 11:31:17[something] makes the corporate armaments industry rub it's hands.Bernard Shaw wrote a play about that… You wouldn't know it, RJ. But then you know so little that this one lapse hardly counts!But I'll give you a hint: It was a Scotsman (if I remember correctly…) who was the hero/villain, the arms manufacturer.Nowadays, what does Scotland make? I'd be interested to know… (Ask around, Howie: You've never made anything yourself -besides hard feelings and your own silly romantic notions- so your surly and defamatory posts won't do: Give a sensible answer!Or do what you usually do: Rant about how the U.S. (…which, in the categories you usually cite, has been getting better and better) is worse than the place you denigrate, for the very reasons you term our lack!Admit it, RJ: You have an irrational animosity towards the U.S. and all of your rhetoric and pejoratives is beside the point.Hey, did an American girl say No to you, and you've never had to gumption to ask another…? Your irrationality is obvious to all; as is your irrational animosity. (It's a European thing, I think… Once upon a time, Europe meant something. Everybody hating everybody else, constant war; silly disputes among people who should easily get along.) You'll soon have problems -yet again!- with the English; and you'll have to choose between Europe and "Great" Britain… And you won't like the choice you'll have to make!But I suspect you're an alien drone… So, who cares what you think or say?
Re: The "New" Cold War… Reply #69 – 2016-08-31, 23:43:16 Well Oakdale if your country did not act so corporately control freakish, imperialistic while tens of millions in the country suffer you could have a point. However you replenish the word 'hypocritical' to an outstanding level!
Topic: The "New" Cold War… (Read 13692 times)
