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Topic: Sing, sing a song… (Read 9381 times)

Sing, sing a song…

A British newspaper notes that
Quote
The Rolling Stones have asked presumptive Republican US presidential nominee Donald Trump to stop playing their songs at his campaign events.
After effectively sealing the Republican nomination on Tuesday night, Mr Trump played the Stones hit Start Me Up as he left the stage following a victory speech.
However, the British rock band said in a statement on Wednesday: “The Rolling Stones have never given permission to the Trump campaign to use their songs and have requested that they cease all use immediately.”

I won't give the url! (Apparently, nobody's heard of Google yet ) I'm hoping to be sued; and I'll make a lot of money, for nothing!

Hey, Mick, Keith (and however many of you dumbshits are still alive…): You wrote, performed, recorded and released to the public some pretty good songs. (I like your earlier stuff… But that's probably just me.) Most public performances of your songs bring you money… Unless you released them via subscription only, that's all you get: You have no further "rights".

I'm reminded of the Crissie Hynde/Rush Limbaugh kerfluffle:
Quote
The opening bass riff from this song "was something that Tony Butler used to play just as a warm-up," said Steve Churchyard, the engineer for the record. It has been used as the opening theme 'bumper' for Rush Limbaugh's popular American talk radio program since 1984, during his days at KFBK in Sacramento, California. He didn't use the lyrics, but Limbaugh said in 2011 that he chose it because of the irony of a conservative using such an anti-conservative song, though he mainly liked its "unmistakable, totally recognizable bass line." In 1999, Rolling Stone magazine reported that, according to Hynde's manager, Limbaugh had neither licensed the song nor asked permission to use it. According to Rolling Stone, EMI took action after Limbaugh told a pair of reporters in 1997 that "it was icing on the cake that it was [written by] an environmentalist, animal rights wacko and was an anti-conservative song. It is anti-development, anti-capitalist and here I am going to take a liberal song and make fun of [liberals] at the same time." EMI issued a cease and desist request that Limbaugh stop using the song, which he did. When Hynde found out during a radio interview, she said that her parents loved and listened to Limbaugh and she did not mind its use. A usage payment was agreed upon which she donated to PETA. She later wrote to the organization saying, "In light of Rush Limbaugh's vocal support of PETA's campaign against the Environmental Protection Agency's foolish plan to test some 3,000 chemicals on animals, I have decided to allow him to keep my song, 'My City Was Gone', as his signature tune..."
What "rights" do you'all think "artists" have? What "rights" should they have?
Should we all become Galambosians? :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
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Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #1
I won't give the url! (Apparently, nobody's heard of Google yet ) I'm hoping to be sued; and I'll make a lot of money, for nothing!
Sorry, but the Scottish flair is not comme il faut.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/04/rolling-stones-ban-donald-trump-from-using-their-songs-after-he/

Hey, Mick, Keith (and however many of you dumbshits are still alive...): You wrote, performed, recorded and released to the public some pretty good songs. (I like your earlier stuff... But that's probably just me.) Most public performances of your songs bring you money... Unless you released them via subscription only, that's all you get: You have no further "rights".
They hold the copyright, unless they signed it off to some studio or other. Ergo, they decide who gets to play it. If the Trump campaign didn't pay money to the rightsholders, they can't play it.

I think they should essentially have the rights they have. It's merely the (especially American) implementation details that can be (pardon my French) idiotic, like the DMCA.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #2
They hold the copyright, unless they signed it off to some studio or other.
And if the rights belong to studios, it's much tougher luck for Trump. Studios enforce their copyrights with absolute ruthlessness.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #3
You guys are missing the point… (Although Frenzie added the relevant info, seemingly as an afterthought.) Copyright of music doesn't entail the "right" to say who can play it. But, of course, there's a cost!
Back when I was playing clubs (bars, ya know? :) ) I knew that ASCAP and BMI got their take — in a bizarre scheme, for sure! But copyright holders got paid for the songs I played; and for those songs the jukebox played. (The latter was surely more important for the copyright holders…)
Is there any contention that the Trump campaign didn't pay the usual fees?

As happens every so often, prissy artists seem to think they can have their cake and eat it too!
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #4
blah blah blah shit discusion

There's not too much of a diference between the rolling stones and rolling trumps.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #5
So: You joined the discussion to say that you have nothing to say… How very European of you! :) Bet you still miss 1920s nihilism, Bel.
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #6
How very European of you!  :)
Thank you.
In return you should try to maintain yourself as a simple American, instead trying to be what you are never able to be. :)
A matter of attitude.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #7
instead trying to be what you are never able to be.  :)
And what, pray tell, might that be? :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #8
I told you before, you try to be the most wanna be European of Americans.
Then, you rest confused, naturally.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #9
I'm pretty sure no American —and few Europeans— would think so… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)


Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #11
Ah! "Enigmatic" is the way you roll! :)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #12
You guys are missing the point...
There is no point besides you now having to support Trump's insanity instead of Cruz. If they didn't pay, they have no right to play it. If I decided to from a band and play covers of other artist's work, I would have to pay for that right as well. Politics has nothing to do with copyright.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #13
Direct to the point Belfrager and spot on but the ex-colonies haven't grown up yet.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #14
If I decided to form a band and play covers of other artist's work, I would have to pay for that right as well.
No, you wouldn't. The venue would…
Politics has nothing to do with copyright.
Yup! But some silly people think it does… If I recall correctly, it started with Jackson Browne!

There is no point besides you now having to support Trump's insanity instead of Cruz.
I'm not sure where you get this idea…
I am concerned about politics and copyright law.

My views about Trump are pretty straightforward: If he's elected, I expect him to be impeached within two years! (Or he'll simply quit. :) ) Failing that, the only way he gains a second term is by appointing Cruz to the Supreme Court; but Cruz is too principled to accept the nomination under such circumstances…
I do like the fact that Trump came right out and said he knows a lot of words! But, as far as I can tell, they're mere acquaintances; they're not "friends". :)
(In fact, the only ones he seems to be intimate with are "I" and "me"…)

Still, holding a copyright to a song does not let one decide who can play it… You'd have to hold Trump-ist views about law to think it did! :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #15
No, you wouldn't. The venue would...
This appears to support your statement But note the modifier
Quote
However, the responsibility for procuring this license usually falls on the venue or organization hosting the band.
Usually, not always.
My views about Trump are pretty straightforward: If he's elected, I expect him to be impeached within two years! (Or he'll simply quit.  :)  )
First thing's first - preventing Hillary from winning the election. As I've said, there are avenues to get Trump impeached without even trying to dig deep into his past. This is not guaranteed by any means. I don't think the Republicans in the House have the guts.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #16
As I've said, there are avenues to get Trump impeached without even trying to dig deep into his past.
Geez, Sang, I wasn't referring to his past; I meant what he's likely to do…
Usually, not always.
I've never known it to be otherwise. But, again, my point is that the only reason for an "artist" to refuse "permission" is lack of payment.
In law, there's no other.
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #17
But, again, my point is that the only reason for an "artist" to refuse "permission" is lack of payment.
In law, there's no other.
Law is not the only point in life. In real life, anybody would voice their disagreement when their work is associated with something icky or false. For example, even when academics cannot appeal to "permission" when being quoted, they can point out being quoted out of context or being misinterpreted, and there can be legal consequences if the misinterpretation is intentional. The thing called "copyright" in arts makes it a matter of legal permission whenever the copyright holder wants it so.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #18
Aristotle should sue you to stop you're mis-using simple logic, ersi! :)

It's quite true that "law is not the only point in life". But without law, much of life becomes pointless.
It is not the case that "the thing called copyright in arts makes it a matter of legal permission whenever the copyright holder wants it so".
Stick that in your "civil law" pipe, and smoke it! :)

The musicians are quite free to "disclaim" any political use of their works. But they can't retract their works… Nor withhold them from use. (Commercial use is another matter… If you think such is invoked here, you're a very fascist person!)

I'm (not too) surprised that no one addressed my Galambos reference… :)
(One of the most enjoyable books about politics -well, ideology- I ever read was It Usually Begins With Ayn Rand! Often factually wrong; but funny as all get-out! I highly recommend it.)
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #19
Is there any contention that the Trump campaign didn't pay the usual fees?
Either one of us is misreading the article you didn't link or it's badly written. Surely that's the meaning behind the phrase "never given permission"?

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #20
I doubt very much copyright to be a discriminatory power based at you can play my music, but you can not.
It's basically a fee applied to anyone because at the very essential of copyright it's the concept of public usage.

An artist certainly has the possibility of graciously give up from his rights (for some cause for example) but never to prohibit whoever pays for using it.

Trump at the sound of Start Me Up it's obscene, that's the real matter. He's allways obscene anyway.
Therefore, this is not a case of copyright but of public moral decency. The Stones defending moral decency... the world is lost.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #21
It's quite true that "law is not the only point in life". But without law, much of life becomes pointless.
It's pointless for anarcho-libertarians to argue that laws give some meaning to life. Why? Because if they are consistent and logical anarcho-libertarians, they understand that they cannot argue anything about law and meaning because they presuppose that these things don't exist.

The fun and frustration about you is that you are neither consistent or logical. in the OP you imply that artists don't have rights. Apparently, nobody should have rights who is not mentioned in the U.S. constitution. Only Americans have rights, according to you.

It is not the case that "the thing called copyright in arts makes it a matter of legal permission whenever the copyright holder wants it so".
Actually, this is precisely the case in reality, if you read newspapers, which you do. You are just not consistent in putting one and one together.

The musicians are quite free to "disclaim" any political use of their works. But they can't retract their works… Nor withhold them from use. (Commercial use is another matter… If you think such is invoked here, you're a very fascist person!)
Maybe commercial use is the crux from your selective point of view. In reality, non-commercial individual file sharers go to prison every now and then for sharing something a big commercial corporation owns a copyright on. Which is the case here too without a doubt.

Not saying this is how it should be. Just saying this is how it is.

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #22
Here we go

Quote
Political campaigns don’t need artists’ permission to play their songs at rallies as long as the political organization or the venue has gotten what’s known as a blanket license from the performing rights organizations ASCAP and BMI for all the music in the licensing group’s repertoire.

But artists do have some recourse. BMI, for example, has said it has a provision in its license agreement that allows BMI songwriters or publishers to object to the use of their songs and they have the ability to exclude those songs from the blanket license.
So the band prevent the campaign from using their songs, via their record label.
“What kind of man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #23
I'm curious: Does the removal from the the blanket license refer to individual licenses, particular events or licensees — or to all blanket licenses? :) (Any lawyers out there? And, yes, I know the laws are different in different places…) Of course, the complaining artists are all wealthy, so they won't suffer. But I'd like to think their "political" purity cost them something… :)
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"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)

Re: Sing, sing a song…

Reply #24
Well, I think I've waited long enough to mention the obvious:
Previous campaigns acceded to the requests of artists, to avoid negative publicity… For Trump, there is no such thing as negative publicity!

I look forward to his use of Sympathy for the Devil.
(BTW: Can Mick and Keith tell me I can't use this YouTube link in my post? :) )
进行 ...
"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility." - James Thurber
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts!" - Richard Feynman
 (iBook G4 - Panther | Mac mini i5 - El Capitan)