OK, now I have very mixed feelings about this:
https://vivaldi.com/#Home
It had to be expected, but at least someone from their team could try to contact me earlier, and warn about these plans (as they were aware of this project for a year).
According to the wise words of Bush II: "Stay the course!"
I have not found a way to install that thing yet. What does the interface look like? Can you post some screenshots? What's the list of features?
And they kept it very secret. I have been reading the Russian threads at Vivaldi all along. Everybody reasonably guessed it was to be a browser, but there was never any official information. The official policy of Opera ASA both under Tetzchner and later - and now at Vivaldi - was always "No comment until it's ready."
And, you know, modular free open-source implementation always beats closed-source corporative management. If they made a broken half-baked feature somewhere, the bug reports will either be overlooked or merged into the code so that the codebase will end up progressively worse. Nobody will be interested in keeping the codebase and the feature set streamlined as a whole. I hope you will do it.
Keep it up and perhaps cooperate with the developer of Fifth. (Yeah, I acknowledge that I am speaking as someone with no coding and no project management abilities. Just as someone with a whiff of unjustified enthusiasm.)
@ersi, nah, and I don't want to see it right now.
Fifth is not compatible with our approach and focusing on WebKit (unless something changed recently) which is almost dead (except of WebKit2 which doesn't offer anything better than Blink except not being worked on directly by Google :-D).
We need to seek cooperation with other projects that would like to exploit Qt wrapper for Blink but don't want pointlessly until QtWebEngine will mature.
Yes, simply waiting is pointless, the only way to get set of required features is to fork it, but that is too much for our project to handle without help from outside.
I have not found a way to install that thing yet. What does the interface look like? Can you post some screenshots? What's the list of features?
The list of features isn't very large for the moment. It does, however, come with bookmarks (including nicknames) and notes.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fpolymathicmonkey.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-N52r67M%2F0%2FO%2Fi-N52r67M.png&hash=19ca87df8fda9cbcdf6466f3e2683f44" rel="cached" data-hash="19ca87df8fda9cbcdf6466f3e2683f44" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://polymathicmonkey.smugmug.com/photos/i-N52r67M/0/O/i-N52r67M.png) (http://polymathicmonkey.smugmug.com/photos/i-N52r67M/0/O/i-N52r67M.png)
There's a new feature called Quick commands, a bit like the Ubuntu HUD. Besides that the goal can be summarized as to implement what is most glaringly missing from Opera/Blink compared to Opera/Presto.
The interface is created using Javascript. I hope that won't be a bad thing, because that Github Atom editor (the Sublime Text clone) is rather slow.
In summary, this is more or less what I had expected the first Opera/Blink 15 alpha to look like.
The interface is created using Javascript.
So they don't create something that is direct competition then, they make the same mistakes as classic Opera (nonnative UI) while ditching users with poor hardware.
:-D
Vivaldi comes with native sideways tabs with preview. Reason enough for me to take over from Firefox. I hope you keep up the good work, though. The roadmap looks very promising, especially beta 6.
Edit: And as indicated by the alleged Chrome browser I'm posting from, looks very similar to Chrome :D For example context menus, "Add as search engine..." and so on.
Doesn't this kind of give you a pause? :D https://vivaldi.net/forum/vivaldi-browser/771-uninstall#9154
There is something I really don't like about Vivaldi before having a try. Guess what!
OSX version :)
I'm going to try this browser right now.
The team gallery is impressive. (https://vivaldi.com/#Team) :yikes:
"Add as search engine..." and so on.
We have these too. :-P
@py-thon, that is the cost of shipping custom build of Blink, it's just huge. :-/
Regarding a custom Blink build, I saw them boasting on Twitter (https://twitter.com/vivaldibrowser/status/560040707633987584) that Vivaldi gets the highest score of any browser on html5test.com. However, I don't think Blink is available as a separate library regardless.
It had to be expected, but at least someone from their team could try to contact me earlier, and warn about these plans (as they were aware of this project for a year).
I can understand the frustration, but I also know the original Opera culture.
We
never leaked. Not even once, even for projects that lasted for several years, and it took long time before we even began to do vapourware.
I consider myself good at keeping my mouth shut, but this applied to every single one in the company. In the early days there were no internal walls so everyone knew with an interest knew everything. Later partners meant more information on a need to know basis, but in any case any "leak" was a controlled one (except maybe a couple minor ones after I left).
Staying the course is a good advice, I think.
please stay.
while it is indeed sad that Vivaldi haven't contacted you, no amount of money can buy the dedication you put in this project.
and in addition, you never know how long that new company will even exist or care about its' new product.
by the way, none of the articles I read mention if its open or closed source, or even the license their browser stands under.
I take it it's free, but closed soruce? wonder how they want to make money.
I take it it's free, but closed soruce? wonder how they want to make money.
The default speed dials and such will likely play a (small?) role there. For instance, the dohop.com link includes Vivaldi affiliate info.
I hope you stay, while I know it'll be an uphill "battle" with their much larger money prowess, what you've done up to till know is quite impressive. We don't know if they'll fold or ever feature match the old Opera too, they don't say that they will.
We use JavaScript and React to create the user interface
even given that is just a tech preview, this makes it slow as hell here
https://vivaldi.net/forum/vivaldi-browser/819-how-about-native-os-user-ui#9407
Stay.
Stay.
Vivaldi will reach a stage, where they must gain some money from their project to pay the developers and their other costs. At that point the must make some compromises with industry:
- mobile version of vivaldi which supports features of the mobile OS of the manufactorer (such as reporting home)
- enabling some kinds of tracking techniques inside the browser for the advertising industry
- implementing some kind of start page, prepared standard bookmarks ...
I bet, they cannot stay independent, even if I wish they would.
Vivaldi is probably closed source, no native UI - what has this browser to offer for me?
Please keep up your good work, I'm already using Otter as my default browser, and as soon as speed dial, notes, and a better address bar suggestion are there, I'll uninstall Opera 12 and migrate my wife's PC too! :hat:
Staying the course is a good advice, I think.
Or perhaps that should be "Steady as she goes." ;)
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7aOWIFgIZQ[/video]
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7aOWIFgIZQ[/video]
Thanks for all encouraging replies, it's good to know that we have supporters even in such dark hour. :-)
I'll try to add something more visible for next weekly, as soon as I'll finally complete the walking deadline(s).
OK, now I have very mixed feelings about this:
https://vivaldi.com/#Home
It had to be expected, but at least someone from their team could try to contact me earlier, and warn about these plans (as they were aware of this project for a year).
I tend to agree. Not contacting you seems bad form. I admire your concept and effort. I've been impressed by your responsiveness to suggestions.
I can't really address the "stay or go" question. However, should access keys and such be incorporated into Otter, I'll choose Otter over Vivaldi. Open source trumps closed in my book and I do admire the project.
It is unfortunate, and the Opera model doesn't really make business sense (bedazzling people about the wonderful features to come attracts more customers), but personally I like it.
It does give some competitive advantage, competitors have to run faster to compete with a finished product (note: finished product, not polished product, we never delivered any polished product), it leads to more focus and less distractions during development, but most satisfyingly it is a show, not tell. Basically the traditional Opera approach to openness is quite similar to Apple.
The loss is the community involvement during development, but it is at the stage where community involvement is least useful. It also meant that if we developed a product internally for a year and a half and somebody else released some alpha product before our release they were considered to be first, that happened a couple times, but this really didn't matter.
i think it's time to say "thank you" for your great work, i've been watching otter-browser for 3 months now and i'm totally impressed how nice it already is, tending more and more to make it my everyday-browser after switching to Chrome when Opera killed Opera ;)
I read about vivaldi and installed it immediatly; after some testing i wasn't too excited about it, compared to otter-browser there were no big advantages i realised at once. For now the whole UI of vivaldi feels a bit slow & sluggish and its layout seems not to be thought to be modified by the user.
If i had to choose between those two browsers today i would choose otter browser - not at last because of it's open code.
So +1 for "stay" ;)
Figured out that I have not tried otter way too long. After seeing vivaldi and testing otter again, I know exactly that this browser here is much more likely going to become the replacement of my Opera.
So: I don't know what I can do that makes you go on, but it is impressive how far you got by now. Maybe leave a way of donating so people can show their appreciation of your work?!
Stay! Vivaldi is closed source, so it's likely to go the way of O12 at some point. An open-source project is much more valuable. And anyway, if Vivaldi gets good in the future, having two good browsers would be a good thing. Otter would be my primary browser and Vivaldi the secondary :)
can't believe this is even for debate
their browser is just another copy of any other webkit crap
its a resource hog ... and that forced winblows 8 flat UI is just disaster
Otter is already great, we just need some fixes from QT side
Please stay.
can't believe this is even for debate
their browser is just another copy of any other webkit crap
its a resource hog ... and that forced winblows 8 flat UI is just disaster
Otter is already great, we just need some fixes from QT side
Otter is significantly better than Vivaldi here. Vivaldi is slow and bloated! It feels like Chrome more than Opera 12. Otter has an Opera feel that Vivaldi right now just does not have.
@jax, sure, and I partially agree, this is why I have also a private TODO, but I'm keeping just "unique" details there, not obvious ones like "we want to do another browser almost like a classic Opera". :-P
Lack of communication is way to die alone, this is why I'm considering.... Facebook profile (bleh).
But I would need someone to help with that, for two reasons:
- I'm not a native speaker (and creating ambiguity on PR page would be baaaad, unless that profile would be named something like "Otter - Ideas lost in translation" :-D),
- it simply takes a lot of time, I had such role in one company and I've decided to stick to development only, it took up to one hour per day with just ~200 likes (it was decided that we won't cheat and buy thousands of ghosts or something like that), for monitoring and then replying the same questions all the time (it was profile for hosting page) and writing announcements from time to time (trying to be a bit funny too, like for example using references to The Lord of the Rings - BTW, anyone reads that introduction line for each weekly? :-D).
And I'm already spending a lot of time here, on IRC, replying in issues tracker etc.
We simply need someone for PR, but with knowledge about my plans (I want to prepare such matrix (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=789.0)) and time. The only thing I can give in return is gratitude and additional experience in Public Relations. ;-)
It's annoying that we can't go for donations (see last FAQ entry), I've seen too many projects that failed even after collecting lots of money (I'm still curious what exactly happened with KDE Commit Digest after that fund raiser some years ago).
And I don't want to make those who believe in this project to feel betrayed again, to not shatter completely image of classic Opera, to avoid situation when Opera gives only image of betrayal. :-D
But I also know that current approach is painful, but our offering is simply not enough yet, Otter can be called vaporware until most of plans piling for 1.0 will be fulfilled (especially that damn address filed completion ;-)) and I'm extremely strict.
To make it more clear (uh, yeah, I know, I'm a drama queen too), I won't accept any donations until I'll be sure that our goals can be fulfilled (1.0, that is, at least 95% of stuff assigned to it in TODO, github and tons of smaller details). After completing my current liabilities at work (The week of walking deadline (literally), in fact I have two of them, both set to... today :-D) I'm planning to take at least two weeks long break (well, I'm a freelancer, I can take a break anytime, when I want ;-)) to reproduce spike of activity from December.
There are some low hanging fruits like Notes (just copy model used by bookmarks, fine tune, copy bookmarks module, add editing fields, solve proper pasting), notifications (add UI, finish fallback dialog, first version done by bajasoft month ago), complete Cookie policies (concept is proven to work for QtWebKit, needs turning into code, using proxy cookie jars so dialogs asking if specific cookie should be accepted would block only that page, not entire UI) etc. (I'm using my private TODO to track such details).
Also I've contacted leader of QupZilla to ask if he would be interested in solving inevitable issues with QtWebEngine (vanilla version won't be what we need, while having stuff better than QtWebKit in terms of API it will also lack some crucial features or we will need to wait at least one year to get some basics). I was planning to do that from beginning, as soon as it was confirmed that QtWebKit won't have QNetworkAccessManager which was the only way to exploit it's hidden potential (access requests, headers, lots of stuff depends on QNAM in QtWebKit), that is complex topic, those who were on #qtwebengine yesterday know more about this problem.
To conclude, this is project made by people for people, not for money (at least not taking it directly from users, that is another complex topic, I can only assure that I won't accept things like nonsense ads in speed dial) and wanting to communicate with people (but keep in mind that time spent on communicating means less time for coding :-/).
Tested vivaldi - it's a horrible chrome/opera clone with no bookmarks menu and telephoning to google at any user action. And most worse: it uses gtk2 just like opera.
Gtk2 browser under LXQT - just what I waited for...
Please merge with qupzilla and bundle your strenghts.
Please merge with qupzilla and bundle your strenghts.
From what I know, Qupzilla has different goals. It doesn't aim to bring back the superior UI and functionality of the old Opera.
Definitely yes to cross-fertilization, sharing code, etc., but no to merging the two projects into one (if that's what you meant).
I do hope you are able to stay.
Opera 12 is still my main browser but am using Otter a lot for pages that do not display well in Opera.
Good luck
After having had a go at Vivaldi I have to say that this whole bunch of programmers with all the time on their hands have so far delivered a browser that does not achieve what otter has achieved with fewer people in one year. Otter beta 4 is usable and stable (most of the time), even if features are still missing. Vivaldi's team should be embarrassed to have given this technical preview version number 1.0.83.38. Vivaldi is alpha or beta in my opinion, it is quite unstable with lots of important features missing and others present not working.
Keep up developing otter and I hope that at least the milestones will be available as deb-packages.
Keep up developing otter and I hope that at least the milestones will be available as deb-packages.
Ah yes, that's more or less ready; I'll just have to get Emdek to integrate it into his build script. ;)
There are three things which are better in Vivaldi:
- Notes
- Completed address bar
- Styles menu (Page actions)
All these are planned in Otter anyway and, aside from these three mentioned, in every other aspect Otter is better than Vivaldi. Vivaldi is a multiprocess resource hog, lacks customisation and has no :config page (apparently planned though).
In the area of customisation (keyboard shortcuts and toolbars) Otter is transparent and a lightyear ahead of competition. When the menus become customisable too and customisation achieves the level that Opera had, Vivaldi will never catch up with Otter. In fact, it doesn't even look like any other browser is aiming as far with its user interface as Otter, so it's fairly sure nobody will catch up.
As soon as the three planned but missing features get added in Otter, nobody will have any reason to choose Vivaldi over Otter. The styles menu (Page actions in Vivaldi) is a big deal for me, something I use a lot in Opera and would very much like to see in Otter soon enough. But in Vivaldi it looks like it's been implemented in an untransparent uncustomisable way. This must be done transparently.
The user profile of Vivaldi is full of binary junk. Some potentially important things like default blacklists and whitelists are binary. The preferences file is hardly legible and apparently not meant to be edited manually. Too many fundamentally wrong design decisions in Vivaldi.
The user profile of Vivaldi is full of binary junk. Some potentially important things like default blacklists and whitelists are binary. The preferences file is hardly legible and apparently not meant to be edited manually. Too many fundamentally wrong design decisions in Vivaldi.
That's a bit odd given their power-user angle.
The user profile of Vivaldi is full of binary junk. Some potentially important things like default blacklists and whitelists are binary. The preferences file is hardly legible and apparently not meant to be edited manually. Too many fundamentally wrong design decisions in Vivaldi.
That's a bit odd given their power-user angle.
But it makes perfect sense when they never meant to have any real focus on the power-user angle. The power-user angle is mentioned only insofar as it's good for marketing. Seriously, I don't see any attraction for geeks in Vivaldi. I'm getting a better impression from its settings dialogue than from Chrome's, but this is not telling much, because Chrome is the bottommost bottom and it's easy to be better than Chrome. Everywhere else I look in Vivaldi I see queer counterproductive management and design decisions. For example, how long would you be able to tolerate the blinding flashy colours of the window frame? A week?
This thing is clearly not for power-users and not for geeks. Opera was. Vivaldi is a whole different thing, really.
@Emdek Let's go over some matters of principle. Can you share some of your personal TODO list? Are you happy how it's been progressing? What did you use Opera for and what do you want to get out of Otter? And, in general, what do you use a browser for?
From the original TODO list it looks like you liked the general layout of Opera's interface and intended to re-create page-specific preferences, passwords manager, and content blocking. In my opinion, content blocking is well implemented, if it only didn't autoupdate behind the scenes. By default it shouldn't autoupdate at all. Passwords manager is missing. Page-specific preferences are making progress.
Then you have made some decisions which I don't understand, such as deviating from Opera's full screen design. If not for any other reason, proper fullscreen should be implemented and made default just because old Opera had it. When in doubt, this is a relevant guideline for making decisions - Opera had it, therefore let's do it the same way, unless we are sure it can be made better. Perhaps you had a good reason to decide otherwise with fullscreen. What was the reason?
Now there's an additional development guideline/incentive. There are three features I mentioned in Vivaldi that Otter doesn't have. Vivaldi has proper fullscreen too. It should be easy to keep up with those features and thus keep yourself ahead of the relevant competition, when you don't find something more urgent to develop for the time being.
I think the current status of Otter vs. Vivaldi is not the most relevant issue. Even if Otter were behind, the sole fact that it's open source whereas Vivaldi could vanish in a whim due to not making enough money should be more than enough argument for Otter.
But anyway, yes, I also tried Vivaldi yesterday, and it's definitely behind Otter. It has the advantage of the autocompleting address bar, and somewhat better eye candy, and some loved features like Notes. But the foundations seem much less solid. It feels rather slow, has much less customization, doesn't have mouse gestures, quick preferences, etc... and doesn't have the ability to get a proper standard title bar separated from the proper standard menu bar, which annoys me quite a lot.
As I said yesterday on IRC, as soon as Otter gets an autocompleting address bar, it will be in a state where I can not only use it myself (I already use it, together with O12 and Chropera in more or less equal standing at the moment) but also recommend it to the non-geek family. It does crash sometimes, but not more than Chrome or Chropera in my experience.
I don't like Vivaldi in total either, and although it is the most horrible decision to use Ctrl+q as a combination for that for that, Vivaldi's Quick Filter for commands seems to be a quite nice innovation (it reminds me of sublime-text).
Just in case that was undiscovered–I want such a feature for my browser. :þ
I want such a feature for my browser. :þ
And I was just thinking to myself, what use is the accessibility of þ under t using Alt Gr. except to type Old English! ;)
Yes, I like it too. Especially for less used features it could be a godsend.
Vivaldi's Quick Filter for commands seems to be a quite nice innovation (it reminds me of sublime-text).
I don't know what sublime-text is, but Vivaldi's Quick Commands filter is something that used to be a recurrent request on My Opera. Many people requested for ability to combine things that appear as lists and search them all at the same time in one place, e.g. History, Bookmarks, Downloads, Email, Contacts, RSS, ... What Vivaldi has done is to throw commands into the mix.
About commands, Otter is missing a neat feature Opera has in the keyboard customisation dialogue - filter by keybinds, not only by command name.
I think the current status of Otter vs. Vivaldi is not the most relevant issue.
This is not how I meant it. I meant the comparison as a way to get some inspiration from Vivaldi - as the Otter project in general draws inspiration from Opera.
As I said yesterday on IRC, as soon as Otter gets an autocompleting address bar, it will be in a state where I can not only use it myself...
I am able to use Otter with the address bar it has by now, even though it's admittedly incomplete. I am more sorely missing cookie management and some big features like Notes. I would very much like to be able to compose into Notes with any text editor of my choice. I wanted this for Opera already a decade ago.
I am able to use Otter with the address bar it has by now, even though it's admittedly incomplete. I am more sorely missing cookie management and some big features like Notes. I would very much like to be able to compose into Notes with any text editor of my choice. I wanted this for Opera already a decade ago.
I don't care that much about the address bar myself, either, but I was mentioning it as the biggest feature that is missing for the big public (I think), not for me. My non-geek family members aren't going to miss things like Notes (they don't know what it was) but they could miss the address bar.
For me personally, the pet features missing are MDI, "click tab to minimize", and then indeed, notes.
Yes, I agree. In short, when the address bar is feature-complete, then Otter can be unreservedly recommended to the general public. This is the only visible thing that an average user could miss.
I don't know what sublime-text is, but Vivaldi's Quick Commands filter is something that used to be a recurrent request on My Opera.
Sublime Text (http://www.sublimetext.com/) is one of the better text editors around, but I've personally settled on Geany (http://www.geany.org/) for the time being. (I also still think SciTE is quite nice.)
well here's cookie from me for what is worth
why I chose Otter:
1. it is so lightweight !!!
2. it is ONLY stable browser based on QTwebkit out there, every other crashes to me
3. going for opera UI and features are only huge +
in my main point (1) this is where Vivaldi and current Opera fails
@ersi, that private TODO is not that much interesting, definitely it is messy and random (I had two separate files until recently, one with stuff that seemed to be too hard to do).
When in doubt, this is a relevant guideline for making decisions - Opera had it, therefore let's do it the same way, unless we are sure it can be made better.
I'm trying to follow that way. :-)
In case of fullscreen I find it a bit lower priority than stuff like notes etc.
BTW, I've got some interesting mail some hours ago.
BTW, I've got some interesting mail some hours ago.
Vivaldi/Google makes an offer that you cannot refuse?
STAY!
Vivaldi isn't free software. It is closed source, and cannot to be trusted.
Otter is (becoming) what Vivaldi could and should have been. Please keep the great work. I am sure there are a lot of people who are not posting here/on irc, yet they're keeping a close eye on this project, and are planning to make it their main browser.
STAY!
Vivaldi isn't free software. It is closed source, and cannot to be trusted.
Opera's bugtracker was closed. This was its biggest annoyance, because you never knew if they were tending to a specific bug or not. Looks like Vivaldi has the same approach. Nobody will know if their pet bugs are receiving attention.
Free software projects like Otter with open source and open bugtrackers add much to the value. Not to mention that Otter is ahead of Vivaldi in interface customisability and most likely will stay ahead.
Some promised features of Vivaldi look interesting though. I'd be watching what becomes of their spatial navigation. Right now old Opera is unbeatable with spatial navigation. (Actually, Elinks is able to do the same, but nobody uses a console webbrowser, right?)
Opera also said something about improving Blink's spatial navigation. Has there been any news on that front?
Opera also said something about improving Blink's spatial navigation. Has there been any news on that front?
No clue. I never used Chropera and never will. And this Vivaldi thing is also not much better. It gradually eats up CPU and there's no 32-bit version in AUR.
I prefer Otter for many reasons by now. I used to have some serious crashiness in Otter earlier but I solved it. Maybe I should start another thread about it.
Please continue.
Otter is looking very nice - light, smooth and fast!
Plus, shame on vivaldi
https://vivaldi.net/forum/vivaldi-browser/979-vivaldi-and-google-tracking
@ersi, yes I can! ;-)
One thing is for sure, we need open source replacement for classic Opera, and right now it's hard to expect that Vivaldi will become FLOSS project.
Again, thanks for support. :-)
Hi! I've been tracking development of this project almost from the beginning and I'm sure it's needed even more now than it was before. Otter means functionality, means speed, means progress, means customizabilty! As much as I can tell it's from users and for users! Opera Software failed us and Otter is the only proper way to go! In short... EMDEK!!! PLEASE STAY!!! :up:
I've been quietly following your progress with Otter since mention of it early on in the Chopera desktop forum (about a year ago), and was excited to hear about it - and totally impressed how you singlehandedly have done so much in such a short period of time than an entire Chopera development team seems able to do - putting them to shame.
I suspected that Opera had sold out way back since Opera 10 or 11 (to google - to keep Opera continuously 'broken') - how else does one explain the constant weekly regressions and mysterious new issues unrelated to what was worked on, started appearing. I knew the end was near, and I felt that other long-time advanced & savvy users suspected this as well.
Since 'new' Opera has abandoned its longtime users, I have likewise abandoned it - and will never download it or try it out. I am still using old Opera 12.15 because I have it highly customized & configured, and it does almost everything I need very quick & efficiently (esp. the many custom keyboard & menu actions, and toolbar buttons that I use daily).
Vivaldi will not be an option for me - unfortunately, even it is being headed by Jon Von Tetzchner (CEO), because I don't appreciate the secrecy, and it looks unimpressive - too little, too late - esp. for such a huge team he has working on it. So I have no interest in even trying it.
So Otter is the only option, and am looking forward to replacing Opera 12 with it once the main features I need are implemented - so, I urge you to continue developing Otter. Also, you yourself do not have much choice in a reliable full-featured browser, thus it's also in your own personal interest to continue building & perfecting it. Thanks for your efforts! And, if there's anything I can do to help the cause, please let me know.
@per4mance, fun fact, for long time I was using weeklies as main browser, as there were periods of extreme stability there (at least until HW acceleration... Linux combined with Intel graphics was third class citizen), so changes are more "blurred" from my point of view, as they were often gradual.
I remember that I started to dislike where they are going when they attempted for first time to "catch-up" with Chrome by killing off favicons everywhere except tab handle, while personally I'm abusing list of recently visited URLs (bookmarks? I use the rarely, for stuff to be checked out later, or so rarely that otherwise they would be lost due to browsing history limits) which got disabled by default and was not usable without favicons.
After long and unnecessary tensions (even neutral comments got deleted then) they added some of that stuff back, but disabled by default...
Then there was Opera Mobile 14 for Android, that was scary, total regression, slow as hell, without features.
But almost exactly the same as Opera 15 (WTF bumping number again if they were almost identical?), although the latter performed way better on desktop at least (at least enough powerful ones).
+100 to stay ;)
Please keep up the great work!
Otter is the way to go! I am using windows as my main OS, and there are no good browsers that I would use instead.
I tried everything from Chropera, Firefox, Chrome, IE and the not so mainstream ones like Seamonkey, Maxthon and so on. Not a single one was as good as the old Opera and even as the early betas and weeklies from Otter. Only thing I didn´t like at the Opera Presto was rendering of some sites.
Today my companies IT decided to restrict even my Chrome settings (not only the IE or Firefox which is already since a while), so I use Otter portable now to get the experience I´d like to have.
Don´t let the project die :)
s many others in this post, I've been silently watching this project since I discovered back in February last year. Since then, I wrote many articles about Otter in my personal blog, and I followed discussions on this forum. I have to say that when I first heard about this project I was very excited, I mean, Opera was my browser of choice since version 9.64 but when they simply stop supporting Linux I started to search for alternatives. I tryed Maxthon, Firefox and many others open source browsers but none was the way I wanted it to be. Otter was, and still is the browser that suits my needs better.
As many others, Vivaldi is NOT a choice for me because of its closed source nature and the ugly interface.
So, please continue to work at this project, keep on the amazing work you've done so far :)
P.S. I am the guy who asked the Faenza-Flattr developer to add an icon for Otter in his theme :P
Stay!
Vivaldi is just another Chromium fork, based on garbage google technology, it will never have the same possibilites than Opera. Besides Vivaldi will never listen for the diehardcore Opera user's complains and requests.
Anyoney who designs or develops Otter, just wants the best browser and nothing else. Vivaldi just wants the Opera users and nothing else. Beside, even the "blank" engine is a reason enough to avoid it like the devil.
If Otter Team really thinks "Web browser controlled by the user, not vice-versa" seriously, then you should avoid implementing anything which is connected to google, the "second microsoft", the most likely candidate for an "internet big brother".
I mean, is there any important stuff, which is not work with WebKit, but only with blink?
(Why are there verification for a logged user?)
I mean, is there any important stuff, which is not work with WebKit, but only with blink?
That would depend on what you consider important. ;)
(Why are there verification for a logged user?)
Anything unfriendly can be blamed on spammers. It was a first post only thing, but I'll experiment with turning it back off.
Again, thanks for support. :-)
Now I can say that nothing is going to change any time soon (well, except extra motivation to try to accelerate development speed), so we can consider this topic exhausted.
Just one note, please keep it calm, while current situation is not a perfect one it is for sure better than having no usable browsers anymore (as Firefox appears to following wrong path...).
Now we have a chance to have at least two. ;-)
And keep in mind that these people brought classic Opera to the world in the first place.
Closing topic for now, lets resume normal activities and go back working towards brighter future. :-)