For a new forum to grow it needs a secure base of participants, which I am anticipating we will have at least for a while, but it must also attract new members.
The old D&D got a lot of members, I think, from those that had gone into My Opera in search of answers to problems with the Browser and peeked into the Lounge. Also the Blog area would have attracted a lot of them.
I would think that's normal, a discussion forum growing out of some sort of product, be it a commercial item like a magazine or a smart phone, or some "cause" which gets people going. Religion, Hobbies, Politics or Green Planets being examples.
I'm not sure that we could all agree on any of those things (which is the joy of DnD nee D&D). But maybe provision should be made for such to grow.
We have a ready-made group of potential new DnD people who were not necessarily in D&D but were participating in the Opera software/browser area. Some of those will be leaving, with no incentive anymore to comment or improve the Opera Browser as it becomes Chopera. So why not have a parallel area in this site entitled something like Browser Wars or Internatter or something which hosts all the discussions that people would like to have in comparing browsers or other things of more general interest.
We could also have more casual Lounge area where word games or whatever are played.
There will be other areas that might attract members - any ideas?
The downside of this suggestion is that it would increase the demands on the system that frenzie is putting in place and turn his quixotic gesture into a burden. That would not be good and we must bear that in mind.
I was wondering what the overall Forum could be called and the title "Forum at the end of the Universe" came into mind. Of course it had been used before and I found this site (http://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9596) which is a pretty exact parallel to this in its initial rationale. Note the cautionary remarks in the second post. That has been remarked upon by many here; we need to take account it it and find a solution.
I'm all for a lounge. The more people we can carry over and make feel at home the more word of mouth, the cheapest and easiest way to grow, we'll have.
Maybe Opera can allow us a link - they owe us that if they close us down.
I don't think it's a good idea to subdivide forums too much prematurely. Most of them would just be sitting there empty and barren. The Lounge might be worth an exception in order to attract a slightly different public from My Opera, but generically speaking my stance is that e.g. a Lounge forum shouldn't be created until a more generic forum is getting an awful lot of Lounge-type threads.
A question before I tell you what I think, it's D&D the only sub forum that reacted and created a space for keep on existing?
At Lounge forum no one is doing nothing? or at least announced the intention?
Maybe Opera can allow us a link - they owe us that if they close us down.
Good point. Even if I don't expect it, one can always try.
Not that I know of.
Manners84 told me a few have expressed a willingness to keep in touch with each other. I'm not there enough to really know. Luxor might.
I'm a bit of an oddball about some things, and D&D is one of them.
I came out of the old Golem forums, then his newsletter replaced the forums, and then the newsletter went way left when GWB got elected. So, I left the Golem newsletter because it was no longer welcome-- in fact he told people who didn't agree with him to leave his web space and his planet-- and about that time downloaded Opera. After a couple of weeks I started the blog, then found the Lounge, then found D&D. I never did spend any time on the support forums, it's been first the Lounge for a few weeks and then D&D after that. I've been hit or miss on my blog-- mostly miss. Don't even know if I'll try to start another one. But, some sort of forum community is a must, and this one has been good.
Definitely will need a place to discuss the different beers we've tried and how we rate them. For instance:
Tanglefoot: 10/10 Highly recommended
Budweiser: -10/10 Literal horsepiss
:)
Not that I know of.
Manners84 told me a few have expressed a willingness to keep in touch with each other. I'm not there enough to really know. Luxor might.
Yes there was a bit of discussion as to where we could go after the demise of MyOpera. I'll drop a message to them so that they are at least aware of this place. I think ohme is already aware of it but I know that others won't be, as I don't think they venture into DnD.
I do think a general invitation to the Lounge lot (Lounge Lizards?) would be great for they would surely be welcome. Frenzie indicated he might add a Lounge area. So go for that invitation.
I remain of the opinion that a software area and invitation would be useful, at least to test the water.
So far we remain a select few, a very select few. The arrival of SF was a joyous thing indeed but we will not know we're on the right track until rjh arrives. ;)
This site has no site icon. Opera had a big red hula hoop. I suggest a red book here http://www.iconarchive.com/download/i75808/martz90/circle/books.ico
This would attract lots of new members.
What's the license?
"free"
wie alles gratis, glaube ich...
Gratis ist nich frei, mein Bester.
Edit: okay, so it's non-commercial. http://www.iconarchive.com/show/circle-icons-by-martz90/books-icon.html
What exactly is commercial use?
Anyway, I'll point out that everything on openclipart (http://openclipart.org/detail/171388/discussion-by-narrowhouse-171388) is completely free, so anyone can make a derivative work etc.
I dabble (http://fransdejonge.com/2013/07/feed-pick-my-new-feed-icon/) in making icons (http://fransdejonge.com/2008/10/svg-favicons-are-not-supported-yet/) myself occasionally, but right now I have neither the time nor the inclination.
Google.
That's where the forum should appear at all searches by terms as debates, discussions, very intelligent people, f**k opera, etc...
I dabble (http://fransdejonge.com/2013/07/feed-pick-my-new-feed-icon/) in making icons (http://fransdejonge.com/2008/10/svg-favicons-are-not-supported-yet/) myself occasionally, but right now I have neither the time nor the inclination.
If you dabbled, then assumedly you have something ready too. For this particular forum, even an unfinished but presentable work would suffice.
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/soapbox.gif)
Ok.......you're looking to attract new members to the
DnD Sanctuary .
Firstly, I'd work on the ole established Opera base of friends, & spirited people that aren't afraid to present their opinion about everything & anything --- left, right, middle -- secular or religious -- political, non-political --- all over the spectrum.
How to do this:
- Direct contact via posts in well read threads, email, & PMs in My OPERA -- before doomsday. Worst they can do is chuck ass out.....so be clever with your wording, & you won't get wacked. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)
- Use a very simple, but powerful method.............Everyone here should have a MyOpera Signature ........... Why not use it? ...... a few enticing catchy words there coupled with a link to The DnD Sanctuary (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php) .... maybe even a link to the Members List (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=mlist) too ... ya never know .. if they see friends, or people they have followed, or had stimulating conversations with in the past, they might just come to the DnD & have a peek, & that might lead to a chat or 2 or 3..... Important to Remember, when you change your Signature, it pastes your changes into your each & every post...including ALL YOUR PAST Posts too!
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/PointRt.gif) Don't forget about the Newbie (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/NEWBIE.gif)
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageleft.gif)As it has been mentioned earlier, you might want to
attract the newbie crowd. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageright.gif)
Young blood is truly essential to growth & survival .... all you have to do is wish them the warmest hello in the MyOpera INTRODUCE YOURSELF (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=112964) thread. Your invite could be direct via a welcome post of your own, & further if you made any sort of
'ad' in your
MyOpera Signature it further increases the
'Come to Our DnD Sanctuary' visibility ........ choose your words wisely ... & be creative.(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageright.gif)
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
Yes SF I agree with that. I also agree that we should be careful with new members initially who will not be used to the more robust approach - we'll get them later. Why I might even ask politely of those that dabble in these things what colour their blunderbuss is!
Putting an advert in the signature is a very good idea, I'll do that.
One question for Frenzie though. While we want new members, is there any problem from your viewpoint in having the number grow quickly (we have until March) during this teething time?
Use a very simple, but powerful method.............Everyone here should have a MyOpera Signature ........... Why not use it? ...... a few enticing catchy words there coupled with a link to The DnD Sanctuary (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php) .... maybe even a link to the Members List (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=mlist) too ... ya never know .. i
Good suggestion SmileyFaze.
I suppose I can do it, but... well, maybe it would have the contrary result with me... :)
Another thing, that complements SmileyFaze's suggestion, is to create a thread that states that we moved and where to (with all the links that matters) with an eye catching title.
Then ask moderation to pin it. I don't see why not.
(at this particular case, I don't mind you use red text, Smileyfaze. :) )
I dabble (http://fransdejonge.com/2013/07/feed-pick-my-new-feed-icon/) in making icons (http://fransdejonge.com/2008/10/svg-favicons-are-not-supported-yet/) myself occasionally, but right now I have neither the time nor the inclination.
If you dabbled, then assumedly you have something ready too. For this particular forum, even an unfinished but presentable work would suffice.
I'm not sure that follows; I don't believe I have making icons as a hobby just because I make one every three years or so. :P
One question for Frenzie though. While we want new members, is there any problem from your viewpoint in having the number grow quickly (we have until March) during this teething time?
Not at all.
If it turned out it were too much traffic or some such, surely the sooner we know the better.
You (all) may note that I have started the Today's Good News Thread in DnD. it has a fair circulation (average 100 views per post) so it may bring some more people in here.
But please try to contribute to it, lets get this forum alive.
Likewise, I suggest that if anyone else wants to migrate their threads they do so in the same way. Or if you want certain threads to be continued here mention it to their initiators (even an old one for which you regret the passing).
Note that threads may not have to pass away. The My Opera backup I'm running should allow me to import select threads. However, that'll likely be a greater effort than the myopera-backup script itself, which took only a few hours, so unless I get some help there who knows when it'll happen. I know there's people besides me who can do some basic scripting and have some basic knowledge of SQL, so as soon as I provide the data (or earlier because some testing data takes mere seconds to obtain), others can work on that.
So if you have a thread you'd really, really like to transfer, all you need to get started is available at these two links:
https://github.com/Frenzie/myopera-backup
http://download.simplemachines.org (there should be some kind of install.sql file in the archive, but their site is down for maintenance atm so I can't check)
I strongly believe we should wait a little while before making the place more public. Because first we should gather all the folks willing from D&D, then MyOpera in general...
I believe we have 1 to 2 months for that... 8)
Good suggestion SmileyFaze.
I suppose I can do it, but... well, maybe it would have the contrary result with me... :)
Then you simply call people "DON'T GO THERE!";)
Then you simply call people "DON'T GO THERE!";)
I decided to be neutral and just announced the move to this place in my signature.
And you? have you done already something or just keep on begging for Opera's charity to let you to be there after kicking you out?
I dabble (http://fransdejonge.com/2013/07/feed-pick-my-new-feed-icon/) in making icons (http://fransdejonge.com/2008/10/svg-favicons-are-not-supported-yet/) myself occasionally, but right now I have neither the time nor the inclination.
If you dabbled, then assumedly you have something ready too. For this particular forum, even an unfinished but presentable work would suffice.
Would a favicon maker (http://tools.dynamicdrive.com/favicon/#.UpQRxJbhmlQ) help? :)
Or would something as simple as (https://files.myopera.com/OakdaleFTL/Files/favicon.ico) suffice?
Or would something as simple as (https://files.myopera.com/OakdaleFTL/Files/favicon.ico) suffice?
I don't know if it'll do, but it'll do
for now. Refresh if it doesn't show up yet.
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/A%20OK%20002.gif)Works for me.....very nice until something more polished comes along....Maybe an ICON Creativity Contest is in order...running say until March 2014, to pick an Official DnD Sanctuary Site FavIcon. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/imthinkin6.gif)
I suppose that a transition period to be expected, while finally people comprehends that there's no point on keeping on posting in D&D and start posting here. At least those that thinks that a forum it's just constituted by posters and their posting activity and not something else.
However, that's a "dangerous" period that can kill efforts of survival. Threads are not already made, they must be created from scratch. If not, well... there's not too much things to discuss, isn't it?
I never was, nor I intend to be, a "thread opener", but I certainly will make a special effort to contribute to discussion at this particular phase, by participating.
If this was a Portuguese forum, I would be certain that just at the very last day people would change and do something. :)
Since it is not, I think that's time for considering testing time finished and start doing what is supposed to do - discuss.
I think that we should be more pro active about passing the message that D&D is history. If not, indecision will destroy the current efforts.
Is there anything more to decide about DnD?
We've already started doing a fair bit of that, haven't we? :)
I'll start a topic on the addressbar, although without Opera's staunch defenders there might just be a lot of agreement.
We've already started doing a fair bit of that, haven't we? :)
I'll start a topic on the addressbar, although without Opera's staunch defenders there might just be a lot of agreement.
Maybe I wasn't clear, if you look at the statistics (a very good thing DnD has) you'll see that there's almost no thread from DnD Central at the most replied or viewed. Reason is simple, people are waiting... waiting for what? for Godot? he will never appear... :)
That's about that inertia that I'm speaking about.
Waiting for Godot? I think they're waiting for Elmo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksL_7WrhWOc). :)
I think as soon as some controversial subjects (other than OPERA , which is a game killer within itself long term) blossom, then people will get more involved ---- but, first they have to know it exists, & see the controversies to spark interest.
What's required short-term is getting the [glow=red,2,300]Members Database[/glow] to grow.
If they don't post straight off, it's not a problem.........when the stuffed shirts at MyOPERA throw the proverbial switch come March, & login there becomes history, then activity here will/should surely skyrocket.
But that will be short lived unless the [glow=red,2,300]Members Database[/glow] is stuffed to bursting with motivated users.
Yep, day to day controversy sparks interest & comment.......'status quo' shovels dirt on a dying, soon to be corpse. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/bury004.gif)
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/smileys/cheers.png) (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/smileys/beer.png) (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/smileys/cheers.png)
For a new forum to grow it needs a secure base of participants, which I am anticipating we will have at least for a while, but it must also attract new members.
The old D&D got a lot of members, I think, from those that had gone into My Opera in search of answers to problems with the Browser and peeked into the Lounge. Also the Blog area would have attracted a lot of them.
I would think that's normal, a discussion forum growing out of some sort of product, be it a commercial item like a magazine or a smart phone, or some "cause" which gets people going. Religion, Hobbies, Politics or Green Planets being examples.
I'm not sure that we could all agree on any of those things (which is the joy of DnD nee D&D). But maybe provision should be made for such to grow.
We have a ready-made group of potential new DnD people who were not necessarily in D&D but were participating in the Opera software/browser area. Some of those will be leaving, with no incentive anymore to comment or improve the Opera Browser as it becomes Chopera. So why not have a parallel area in this site entitled something like Browser Wars or Internatter or something which hosts all the discussions that people would like to have in comparing browsers or other things of more general interest.
We could also have more casual Lounge area where word games or whatever are played.
There will be other areas that might attract members - any ideas?
Like it on Face book? but then we would be subject to peoples bowel movements.
The downside of this suggestion is that it would increase the demands on the system that frenzie is putting in place and turn his quixotic gesture into a burden. That would not be good and we must bear that in mind.
If they set up pay-pal I'd help pay to cover costs.
I was wondering what the overall Forum could be called and the title "Forum at the end of the Universe" came into mind. Of course it had been used before and I found this site (http://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9596) which is a pretty exact parallel to this in its initial rationale. Note the cautionary remarks in the second post. That has been remarked upon by many here; we need to take account it it and find a solution.
If they set up pay-pal I'd help pay to cover costs.
Presently there are no extra costs as such. However, it might worthwhile to switch to a dedicated domain name and that'd probably cost about €12/year.
If they set up pay-pal I'd help pay to cover costs.
Presently there are no extra costs as such. However, it might worthwhile to switch to a dedicated domain name and that'd probably cost about €12/year.
Yeah - keep that in mind.
@MAXXTHRUST - I liked your remark about bowel movements! But we do need to garner posts, many start with the Lounge and graduate to the higher levels of learning, why I myself ....
Hmmmm I see what you mean! ;D
Oh - by the way MAXXTHRUST , did you see I brought over the Good News Thread - why don't you do the same for the Bizarre news thread.
Well, it seems that OPERA is directly assisting this Forum, & I suspect a number of new members here due to this:
When My Opera was launched in 2001, it quickly became an important place
for us to meet with you. We have had much great interaction with you in our
forums and blogs. This whole idea of giving you a place where you could
blog, share photos and send emails turned into an interesting, and very
large, side project. Over the years, we've seen social media, blogging
sites and new messenger services pop up that offer more and better
features than we could possibly maintain. These offerings are their sole
business. You all know their names and you probably use their services
already.
The explosion of these sites and the amount of resources we need to
maintain our own service has changed our outlook on My Opera. We had a
good run for many years, but we believe your content could have a better home elsewhere, so we have made the decision to shut down My Opera as of March 1, 2014.
Your My Opera email account will also be discontinued on this date.
You can read more about the planned shutdown in our blog post:
http://opera.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=437b4b2c073452be95855f3da&id=8c8aeb033a&e=60fc355e4f
You can still stay in the loop. Read our updates and news in our new blog home, http://opera.us3.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=437b4b2c073452be95855f3da&id=b9b04687fd&e=60fc355e4f - We hope we'll see you there.
The My Opera team
==============================================
You are receiving this email because you are a member of the My Opera Community.
Guess that just about seals it.
Now (especially now) it is incumbent on all of you, that wish to attract new members here, to advertise DnD on each & every post you've ever posted in MyOpera............
How?...Make an effort to mention it in every post you make in the MyOpera Forums
(go back & do some posting -- Use the valuable free tools of Opera to increase DnD's numbers!) .....
Also .... as I explained earlier, go to your MyOpera Settings (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/settings.dml) &
change your MyOpera Forum Signature.
When you do this, you not only change your signature on your every post going forward, but on every post you have ever made!!!
That's right, you heard correctly,
every friggin' post you every made!After you save your new signature, take a look at an old post you made......you'll see your new signature there!
* See my signature in Opera if you need a suggestion.
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/PointRt.gif)
Now, so far that's still free to all Opera Users, but that may change very soon, so speed is of the essence!
ׂ
Make an effort to mention it in every post you make in the MyOpera Forums (go back & do some posting!)
But that would be pure spam then. If DnD is mentioned, it has to be because there is relevant information here to what's being discussed, including but not limited to shutdown of the forums.
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/smileys/doh.png)Only the brain dead would be so foolish as to not use some creative wording ...... If it's anything I learned dwelling in the Cave of the Opera Beasts is that they ain't stupid ..... give those people some credit to use their God given intelligence.
And anyway, if they do let a lil cheese slide off their cracker, what's the worst thing that could happen?? They might get reprimanded or banned ..... ewwwwwwww .......... how horribly terrible, gettin' rebuked...worse yet....banned from a place that told their loyal members flat out they were shit, they will all be tossed out on their asses March 1, 2014, & even after all their loyalty they can get stuffed.............so who could care less!!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)
Hey, you just gave me a splendid idea.........lets run a contest....have a pool........lets see who could get banned the earliest.......first....last.....guess the date....etc...etc..... It'd be great fun!!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)
Make an effort to mention it in every post you make in the MyOpera Forums (go back & do some posting!)
But that would be pure spam then. If DnD is mentioned, it has to be because there is relevant information here to what's being discussed, including but not limited to shutdown of the forums.
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/smileys/doh.png)Only the brain dead would be so foolish as to not use some creative wording ...... If it's anything I learned dwelling in the Cave of the Opera Beasts is that they ain't stupid ..... give those people some credit to use their God given intelligence.
And anyway, if they do let a lil cheese slide off their cracker, what's the worst thing that could happen?? They might get reprimanded or banned ..... ewwwwwwww .......... how horribly terrible, gettin' rebuked...worse yet....banned from a place that told their loyal members flat out they were shit, they will all be tossed out on their asses March 1, 2014, & even after all their loyalty they can get stuffed.............so who could care less!!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/big%20laugh%20007.gif)
Hey, you just gave me a splendid idea.........lets run a contest....have a pool........lets see who could get banned the earliest.......first....last.....guess the date....etc...etc..... It'd be great fun!!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lolfun.gif)
I wonder if effectively banning oneself counts?? Personally, I overloaded on the replies to the letter that informed us of the closing, one poster in particular. If his opinion in any way reflects the views of "management" then it was time to leave a long time ago and we just didn't know it.
Apologies to Belfrager: It turns out your lemming-like approach of "mass forum suicide" may have been closer to the truth than any of us were able to handle then. Now that we all know what was really happening in the back-ground, it actually looks like a sensible solution.
Apologies to Belfrager: It turns out your lemming-like approach of "mass forum suicide" may have been closer to the truth than any of us were able to handle then. Now that we all know what was really happening in the back-ground, it actually looks like a sensible solution.
That was not meant to be a "sensible" solution, but an artistic collective work of art. Internet art.
Maybe we can do it here...
Ok, I'll shut up. :)
I could try to convince people to join DnD...
I'll tell them that we are an exclusive member club, an international elite... with membership only by invitation. :)
:D
Well, I'm sorry to say that our membership rolls have staggered to the point of immobility.
Only 30 members (actually only 28 - test is a non-entity created by Frenzie, & Jimbro has a duplicate because his dog ate his password, or some other lame excuse)
[glow=black,2,300]28 members in 2 months is absolutely pathetic.
[/glow]
If this doesn't change drastically in the next 2 weeks, I fear we will be bidding this forum a sad farewell --- it will never attain the membership required to sustain itself -- doomed to eternal obscurity.
My only answer to this is that there must be 20+ members here who are sitting with both thumbs up their collective asses, & are doing absolutely nothing to actively attract new members, much less existing, active MyOpera members!
[glow=red,2,300]Absolutely pathetic to the point they should be ashamed of their sorry selves for breathing the sweet air they do!![/glow]
In the end, it's up to you guys to make a choice.....stay in that shriveling lemming infested, fanboy run MyOpera Forum
until March 1, 2014, & let this infant DnD forum die at the hands of detached & uncaring users,
or promote this forum actively to all your "friends & fellow MyOpera members".....period.
The choice is yours, pursue a future, or let it die.
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/ps.gif)..... If you haven't done anything to promote this forum, & you feel offended by what I said.................to bad, it was meant to offend!!!
Well, I'm sorry to say that our membership rolls have staggered to the point of immobility.
New users are mysterious beings, no different from the Yeti. Many expeditions tried to spot them before, none succeeded.
Immobility it's exactly the way to catch them. :)
Well, keep calm. There's no motif for worrying.
People are waiting, it's normal. The Vivaldi place opened one or two weeks ago, MyOpera will be there for two months more.
Quality posters for Debates and Discussions are already here, not anywhere else. We are also waiting (while Frenzie tunes up the artillery). With calm.
The battle has not started yet. Someone put that soldier back to lines... :)
I think the need to attract lots of new members is a bit overrated. We've got a bunch of people here, who will without doubt drag in the occasional hapless victim new member. As Frenzie said - there is no significant cost to run this forum in addition to what he'd pay for his domain and hosting service anyway ( although if anyone wants to help out with that he probably wouldn't mind much ;) ), there is no grow-or-die situation. There would be more of a problem if we suddenly got a couple thousand users who all felt like checking the forum 20 times a day, that would probably need more bandwidth which would cost more money which would have to come from somewhere, be it donations, ads or whatever. But we're not there yet and probably won't be any time soon.
Disclaimer: this is just my opinion, no more, no less.
28 members in 2 months is absolutely pathetic.
1. It is a place we have fleed to - together - to stay together, and as such it can remain our Naval Base in all circumstances.
2. I may speculate that other people - here, and who may not yet be here - are doing what I'm doing -- I'm hanging out in one&half places now: till the '13/'14 border my primary surfing is MyOpera, but I keep both my eyes here - testing it included; after the borderline - it's going to go the other way -- I'll be slowly hybernating there's and become more active here.
3. You're welcome to test this place and check up its features - apart from your gaming activity. This time - this period is still on and flashing.
I agree that there is no need to panic over the membership level, after all we are only just coming out of the experimental stages but SF has made a valid point. Existing members are not doing enough.
1. We should continue to post in D&D (I've not been posting there myself so I slap my own wrist on that one)
If we combine that with:
2. All of us should make a signature for our D&D postings promoting DnD ... only some of us do this at present.
The objective of the above is to continue to make D&Ding an attractive pastime while coupling it with information on the "DnD escape route". Couple that with the occasional comment in the post itself and we have a lot of publicity going on. I can't imagine a reason why Opera would object.
Now I suggest this (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=82.0):P
D&D hadn't too much active posters more than we have already here.
Of course we love audience, we are Stars after all...
Instead of a list of members that every single lousy forum has, we should have an entry page saying Starring...
Names should appear scrolling by alphabetical order :)
Ok, I'll start doing my daily post at D&D while it lasts. The last day, I'll have my revenge...
By the way, I feel very comfortable here. Frenzie is an excellent host. :)
D&D hadn't too much active posters more than we have already here.
Now what?
I hear we had a certain "female trouble"?;) Well, I have a few female compatriots skilled in British English...;) Want some? :D
I agree that there is no need to panic over the membership level, after all we are only just coming out of the experimental stages but SF has made a valid point. Existing members are not doing enough.
1. We should continue to post in D&D (I've not been posting there myself so I slap my own wrist on that one)
If we combine that with:
2. All of us should make a signature for our D&D postings promoting DnD ... only some of us do this at present.
The objective of the above is to continue to make D&Ding an attractive pastime while coupling it with information on the "DnD escape route". Couple that with the occasional comment in the post itself and we have a lot of publicity going on. I can't imagine a reason why Opera would object.
Exactly the adult response I would have expected & hoped for.
No panic (never my intention whatsoever), just an overtly concerted effort to make this forum well known & understood by active D&D posting members.
.....I can't imagine a reason why Opera would object.
Think about it ...... How can they?
It was
actually their idea that the membership find more adequate places to continue posting ............... when they forcefully get tossed out on their collective asses March 1, 2014.
Our friends in D&D need a new & improved home ........ why shouldn't we help them vocally, rather than secretively or passively.
This is my OPERA Signature ..... you can use it as a guide if you wish:MYOPERA is shutting down their forums forever in less than 60 days!
Need a place to go?
What will you do when it all ends here?
Try a new forum, run by the users, & made up of MyOpera Exiles!
NO CORPORATIONS!
[url=http://goo.gl/EtYO6m]The DnD Sanctuary[/url]
Maybe your old friends, or some of the people you follow, are already signed up there ... [url=http://goo.gl/YndZJ1] Look Here[/url]
If anyone needs further help formulating their signature, please PM me, & I'll put one together for you.
It seems that your idea won't work well: I've been hanging on the D&D so far, and almost the only guys having been noticed there are Katsung and RJ; there've been an occasional post from Michael, Jim or Frenzie -- but you see... You see. Also, in other forums I've encountered Steve Sgunhouse, some other MyOpera staff, and a few newbies or straw guys - primarily in the sections about MyOpera and Opera (which are of a serious doubt to go anywhere). Let alone that there's been a massive campaign about Vivaldi... I've registered there, by the way, too, -- primarily for the purpose of reserving the name... :zzz:
Being defeatist is not normally a good way of achieving anything. I note you've changed your signature. .. and posting in the DnD Sanctuary thread in D&D is a good thing since it keeps DnD at the top like a sticky thread.
More of us here need to do as you did.
It seems that your idea won't work well: I've been hanging on the D&D so far, and almost the only guys having been noticed there are Katsung and RJ; there've been an occasional post from Michael, Jim or Frenzie -- but you see... You see. Also, in other forums I've encountered Steve Sgunhouse, some other MyOpera staff, and a few newbies or straw guys - primarily in the sections about MyOpera and Opera (which are of a serious doubt to go anywhere). Let alone that there's been a massive campaign about Vivaldi... I've registered there, by the way, too, -- primarily for the purpose of reserving the name... :zzz:
So, what your saying is don't even bother trying, don't even give it a chance. A few people might have other ideas, so toss all Frenzies hard work aside, & just prance on over to Vivaldi.
Well, I think this place is worth it......I believe that if everyone opened a thread, & posted in the ones the already do, the word will get out.
I also think we need to support all Frenzie's hard work, time & effort.......with efforts of our own!
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageleft.gif)We can succeed! ,,,,,,,,, We can make it happen! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/yes2.gif)
"The Four Seasons" are good, but generally, I prefer Mozart.:P
I see some on here panicking no one is here yet yadda yadda yadda
This is the first time I've heard of this place and here I am.
Putting it in your signature is a good idea - that's how I found this place.
I hope it works out here - these are great forums :)
Welcome! I apologize for muddying up your thread a few weeks back.
No worries. With Pesala always jumping down everyone's throat, it's hard to stay on topic anywhere in there.
I'm going to change my signature there in hopes of bringing more people here. I keep reading about D&D - that's Dungeons and Dragons, isn't it? Is that where some are going? Or am I just way too old and out of touch? LOL
Haha, no, Debates & Discussions (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/forum.dml?id=57) (and The Lounge in general) is the primary focus here.
Ah, duh me!!! LOL :P
But I'm not keen on having the users maintain "heavy" signatures/avatars. It may get the site work slower and - which is essential for me particularly - load the pages less swiftly.
One thing is to show some image or even several in a thread - however sizy -- in which case the "heavyloaded-ness" is occasional --- the other is to have EACH of somebody's posts/replies heavy loaded:yuck: (which may even look untidy for me).
Well membership is picking up, in fact I note that we have been joined by the redoubtable rjhowie amongst other very welcome new members. A number have come because of the signature concept so that reinforces recent posts on the matter.
We also seem to have picked up our first 2 or 3 spammers—I tested delete on the one and ban on the other.
in fact I note that we have been joined by the redoubtable rjhowie
Oh no...
:)
Oh yes(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOjyhKXZ.png&hash=2237e91d5e8ac5b56cbfbaf64e05dff8" rel="cached" data-hash="2237e91d5e8ac5b56cbfbaf64e05dff8" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/OjyhKXZ.png)
So where's our "like" button so we can do that instead of saying "great idea" or "thanks" or "good job" ??
I added something as a test, but I'm not too enthused about it. I'll leave it enabled for a little bit. I have no problem with +1 posts.
Edit: it was buggy; it added about a dozen jQuerys. Anyway, this isn't something I'm likely to create myself, so not for now. It'll be standard in Simple Machines 2.1 though, whenever that comes out.
+2 (I can't find it, but typing a + Number is quite easy ... maybe I'm old-fashioned (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol00100.gif))
If you use FireFox Custom Buttons, I'll be more than happy to make ya a simple toolbar button, if ya need one. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/awright005.gif)
So where's our "like" button so we can do that instead of saying "great idea" or "thanks" or "good job"
At my bottom!
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.myopera.com%2FJoshL%2FSml%2Ftss.gif&hash=03b5aa74f36ce7c5f2976e9d66477837" rel="cached" data-hash="03b5aa74f36ce7c5f2976e9d66477837" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://files.myopera.com/JoshL/Sml/tss.gif)
Just was at Phucking vivaldi.
I'm not saying against that site as the concept, but it's slow.
By the... The way it's "by", a couple of DnD officers were noticed by me there. (Steve Sgunhouse is there but not here, also...)
Just was at Phucking vivaldi.
I'm not saying against that site as the concept, but it's slow.
Speed has absolutely nothing to do in attracting new members or not (unless hideously slow), whereas content & usable structure definitely will have a positive impact.
Has any DnD Officer ever approached Steve to come here & get involved, or at the very least offer us an endorsement in MyOpera, &/or a public acknowledgment there of our existence & format?
His word, as you well know, holds tremendous weight there & any public acknowledgments by him would go a long way!
Has any DnD Officer ever approached Steve to come here & get involved, or at the very least offer us an endorsement in MyOpera, &/or a public acknowledgment there of our existence & format?
DnD Officer? :P But yes, Mac did at the very least mention the place to him.
Just was at Phucking vivaldi.
I'm not saying against that site as the concept, but it's slow.
Speed has absolutely nothing to do in attracting new members or not (unless hideously slow),
Just as an FYI but I really have no patience whatsoever with slow forums. They drive me batty and I won't bother with them. This one is instant so it's great.
ׂ
But I'm not keen on having the users maintain "heavy" signatures/avatars.
Not keen on them myself josh. Simple text signatures are what I prefer to see on a forum.
Has any DnD Officer ever approached Steve to come here & get involved...
I did.
I did it at that very first time when I sent a multiple invitation via my mail there.
Just as an FYI but I really have no patience whatsoever with slow forums. They drive me batty and I won't bother with them. This one is instant so it's great.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOjyhKXZ.png&hash=2237e91d5e8ac5b56cbfbaf64e05dff8" rel="cached" data-hash="2237e91d5e8ac5b56cbfbaf64e05dff8" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/OjyhKXZ.png)
But I'm not keen on having the users maintain "heavy" signatures/avatars.
Not keen on them myself josh. Simple text signatures are what I prefer to see on a forum.
Same here, but the existing ones seem acceptable. The forum allows me to set a limit to their size, which I set to 500x25 based on Smiley's new signature image (499x25).
Maybe DnD should offer to do the forum as part of a cooperative effort with Vivaldi, they just need to put a link on their site. Blogs do not have to be that quick.
Then we would probably get an endorsement from Opera and a link on their site.
Problem solved!
A bit of tounge-in-cheek won't hurt!
But I'm not keen on having the users maintain "heavy" signatures/avatars.
Not keen on them myself josh. Simple text signatures are what I prefer to see on a forum.
I completely agree. Huge signature with tons of animation or pictures that fill up screens are just annoying and obnoxious. Sites like that, I turn the signatures off. I am usually on a 15" laptop when I browse forums so I don't want huge pictures taking up my screen. I want to read the forums :)
The forum allows me to set a limit to their size, which I set to 500x25 based on Smiley's new signature image (499x25).
Gun control? ;)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNWbC20H.png&hash=481acde793101066c45f8ffe1d9ec2e6" rel="cached" data-hash="481acde793101066c45f8ffe1d9ec2e6" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/NWbC20H.png)
Maybe DnD should offer to do the forum as part of a cooperative effort with Vivaldi, they just need to put a link on their site.
I may agree... But you know, I has issues with that site, and then I was going to consider starting a topic on that HERE - because of their slowliness/aka inappropriateness for me to use that somehow consistently...
myminpins, I've also had the signatures off on MyOpera. But here I see they are at the most part useful - mine, for example...:)
What's your name, by the way? I prefer to address my interlocutors by their names rather than by huijfvtrs.:D
You dare to ask for a REAL name on a public forum? ??? :-X :-\ ;D ;D j/k
My name is Brenda.
myminpins, I've also had the signatures off on MyOpera. But here I see they are at the most part useful - mine, for example... :)
What's your name, by the way? I prefer to address my interlocutors by their names rather than by huijfvtrs. :D
I completely agree. Huge signature with tons of animation or pictures that fill up screens are just annoying and obnoxious. Sites like that, I turn the signatures off.
I block the images in peoples signatures anyway, that way I can still see peoples text signatures without turning off signatures altogether. Handy as depending on the forum in question there can be useful information contained within them that saves you asking oft repeated questions.
I have no idea how to do that or that you could do that.
I completely agree. Huge signature with tons of animation or pictures that fill up screens are just annoying and obnoxious. Sites like that, I turn the signatures off.
I block the images in peoples signatures anyway, that way I can still see peoples text signatures without turning off signatures altogether. Handy as depending on the forum in question there can be useful information contained within them that saves you asking oft repeated questions.
My name is Brenda.
Nice to meet you.:)
I block the images in peoples signatures anyway...
How?
Are there any such options here on DnD?
"People's", by the way...(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FvBfPDR5.png&hash=d0901919b44a8de03a264c12d7c94a67" rel="cached" data-hash="d0901919b44a8de03a264c12d7c94a67" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/vBfPDR5.png)
Nice to meet you.
You as well!!!
"People's", by the way...
You corrected his spelling... Oh, my... I think I love this place :D
I have no idea how to do that or that you could do that.
Depends on your browser. In Opera presto use the content blocker. In every other browser (I presume) you would use an ad-blocker.
"People's", by the way
Pedant. :P
I have no idea how to do that or that you could do that.
Depends on your browser. In Opera presto use the content blocker. In every other browser (I presume) you would use an ad-blocker.
I use Opera Next 19.0.
I still have no idea what Presto and Blink mean.
You corrected his spelling... Oh, my... I think I love this place :D
It's been my specialty on MyOpera so far.;)
Pedant.
Always!(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FU356gxa.png&hash=1010b69a4597af6f554706789c433364" rel="cached" data-hash="1010b69a4597af6f554706789c433364" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/U356gxa.png)
Presto is an engine used by Operas up to -- 12s?
I use Opera Next 19.0.
You would have to use an ad-blocking extension then. :)
I still have no idea what Presto and Blink mean.
Just the layout engine, shouldn't really matter to the end user. Just the geeks. ;)
I still have no idea what Presto and Blink mean.
Opera/Presto is Opera 7 through 12. Opera/Blink is Opera 15+.
IE's rendering engine is called Trident.
Fx' rendering engine is called Gecko.
Safari's (and Chromium's former) rendering engine is called Webkit.
It's not necessarily important, but if something uses e.g. the Blink engine you know it can probably do most of the same things Chromium can wrt displaying web pages.
Thanks. I know on the My Opera forums, they're using the terms Presto and Blink all the time. Drives me nuts. Use the number, will ya? LOL
I know so far Opera 19 -- for me -- has worked beautifully BUT I have a TON of extensions on it so it works the way I want it to and so I have some buttons I want but it still is missing my most favourite button of all which is the +, -, 100 buttons that let me zoom with one click. I have a zoom button but it zooms by 25% at a time and is two clicks to use. Not nearly as nice.
(Yes, I'm getting old - I can't read tiny text any more)
Frans, Senior officers and everyone!
Having been attracting a bit of new members, as you say, we'll gonna need (along with all the boards and features working suffuciently)
- 1) certain Greetings to them joimimg us,
and
- 2) some FAQ/Introduction to the features and opportunities being offered by the Airplane Base Carrier.
In order to have the latter, we'd better help each other right now to perform "crashtesting" - sort of which myself have started of late within the "Testing board".
I've been seeing you by now undertaking some voting efforts about there... But I might admit that you and me could do better.
I suggest we should test the site throughout, including the features within the Messages "board", settings "board" and all others. Then we're gonna to obtain the knowledge (apart from helping Frans get the site fine-tuned) about all the procedures, peculiarities, tips & tricks, after which we're able to propose a comprehensive, laconic etc. Guide to the Site for the hordes of new users we here seem to expect...
I'm finished(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fmedb0S1.png&hash=a131a314bb79e7c9d4a99c3114d9db30" rel="cached" data-hash="a131a314bb79e7c9d4a99c3114d9db30" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/medb0S1.png)
(Yes, I'm getting old - I can't read tiny text any more)
In settings, search for "font". Click "customize fonts" and there you can set a minimum font size.
When you're trying to make your signature, there's no helpful things like the buttons "insert image" "insert link" etc.
I don't know if that's the type of things you're looking for though.
I actually had done that but then set it back to 100%. I prefer to zoom using my browser so I don't miss anything. Sometimes when you zoom, things disappear off the page that you don't realize.
Therefore, I prefer to have my pages load 100% as they're made to then I'll zoom as required. :)
(Yes, I'm getting old - I can't read tiny text any more)
In settings, search for "font". Click "customize fonts" and there you can set a minimum font size.
I suggest we should test the site throughout, including the features within the Messages "board", settings "board" and all others. Then we're gonna to obtain the knowledge (apart from helping Frans get the site fine-tuned) about all the procedures, peculiarities, tip & trick, after which we're able to propose a comprehensive, laconic etc. Guide to the Site for the hordes of new users we here seem to expect...
The Simple Machines developers spent years creating this system. You make it sound like I wrote it all by myself within a couple of weeks. :P
Edit: more to the point, they already created a user guide. I should probably link to it more prominently somewhere. http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Getting_started
Of course it's not a plain vanilla install, and especially the "My Bookmarks" feature should be appreciated by Opera veterans, as well as first post on every page.
The Simple Machines developers spent years creating this system. You make it sound like I wrote it all by myself within a couple of weeks.
:coolshades: (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=67.msg4314#msg4314):)
Frans, I've just been having an idea that we shall create some FAQ or Guide for all those new users who's not familiar with either MyOpera's or this site's toolkit. I was incited by some people expressing their certain unfamiliarity in this area...
And - however myself or others could be wholehearted to help everyone individually - it's deemed better by me if we had some such Introductory guide here. But, in order to sufficiently create such, we just need to be familiar with all the stuff ourselves, don't we? ???
Are people finding this forum hard to negotiate??? A forum is a forum, isn't it?? This one is easier than most to negotiate, I find, but is that what you guys are talking about, telling people how to negotiate and use this particular forum???
Edit: more to the point, they already created a user guide. I should probably link to it more prominently somewhere.
If we're talking about that "Help" page (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=help), I've found the content being probably not absolutely related to this exact certain particular site/forum(whatever). (Unless you mean something else - but still... ???)
For example there's 'described' some "Calendar" or some there, and I don't think we have any such feature on our AirCarrier, do we? ???
...but is that what you guys are talking about, telling people how to negotiate and use this particular forum???
Yes, something like that...
???
...but is that what you guys are talking about, telling people how to negotiate and use this particular forum???
Yes, something like that...
???
This is one of the easiest boards I've ever been on. Very simple and easy to use but then again I've been online and using forums and boards for over 10 years so maybe I'm not the best judge.
For example there's 'described' some "Calendar" or some there, and I don't think we have any such feature on our AirCarrier, do we? ???
"The calendar feature,
if enabled by the administrator"
It's explicitly recommended against in this optimization guide:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=293441.0
Above all, I just don't see the need. I'm sure someone can create something on 30Boxes or whatever if they feel it'd be useful.
This is one of the easiest boards I've ever been on. Very simple and easy to use but then again I've been online and using forums and boards for over 10 years so maybe I'm not the best judge.
I chose this forum software because I felt it offered the best balance between many features, fast, and easy to use.
But I'm not keen on having the users maintain "heavy" signatures/avatars.
Not keen on them myself josh. Simple text signatures are what I prefer to see on a forum.
Same here, but the existing ones seem acceptable. The forum allows me to set a limit to their size, which I set to 500x25 based on Smiley's new signature image (499x25).
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/Screamer02.gif) (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/scared.gif) (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/fright.gif)
Why, do you want something larger? :P
I could up the limit, but preferably not by much.
Why, do you want something larger? :P
I could up the limit, but preferably not by much.
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol00100.gif)
No...No.....just makin' a funny.....the size is quite generous as is... thanks (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
BTW......is it just me or did this thread somehow morph from Attracting New Members into Forum requirements and (un)desirables (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=59.msg2384#msg2384)? (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/hmm.gif)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FOjyhKXZ.png&hash=2237e91d5e8ac5b56cbfbaf64e05dff8" rel="cached" data-hash="2237e91d5e8ac5b56cbfbaf64e05dff8" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/OjyhKXZ.png)
Btw, did you miss the cheers smiley here (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=67.msg2710)?
Btw, did you miss the cheers smiley here (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=67.msg2710)?
Good one!! ...... find it first in line on the
OP (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=67.msg2710) (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAB6kV48.png&hash=281e09d1984ba9f754a4863370f01bdc" rel="cached" data-hash="281e09d1984ba9f754a4863370f01bdc" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/AB6kV48.png)
New members blá bá blá....
New members have to demonstrate they deserve DnD.
Always has been like that and I'm in no mood for opening "my legs".
New members start posting, new members are massacred, insulted and ignored, and if, and only if, they resist, then they become new members.
Always has been like that and always will be like that.
That's the D&D I, and many more, had, that's the DnD new members will have.
New members blá bá blá....
New members have to demonstrate they deserve DnD.
Always has been like that and I'm in no mood for opening "my legs".
New members start posting, new members are massacred, insulted and ignored, and if, and only if, they resist, then they become new members.
Always has been like that and always will be like that.
That's the D&D I, and many more, had, that's the DnD new members will have.
Really? Here? I haven't seen evidence of this.
@myminpins
Here's how to read into that over-reactive slop astute personal observation:
massacred = disagreed with
insulted = spoken to bluntly
ignored = not agreed with by more than 2 subsequent posters
resist = follows up with more than one (1) subsequent post -- backing up their own original position
Welcome aboard!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
@myminpins
Here's how to read into that over-reactive slop astute personal observation:
massacred = disagreed with
insulted = spoken to bluntly
ignored = not agreed with by more than 2 subsequent posters
resist = follows up with more than one (1) subsequent post -- backing up their own original position
Welcome aboard!! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
Got it!!! ROFL :P ;D ;)
BTW......my post basically massacred Belfrager using his terminology, when in essence, I merely disagreed with his excessively robust nomenclature.
I've had a quick look over some old threads going back several pages; rather than looking at them purely as an historical archive I was looking for ones which I'd personally like to see active again.
There are a lot of interesting topics there. Many are of their time but some are worth revisiting. In D&D there was an embargo on resurrecting old threads but we don't have that constraint here or at least not at the moment.
My original thought was to send an Opera PM to the person who originally opened the original thread saying it was an interesting area and, as a courtesy, inviting him/her to start a similar one on DnD, asking for it to be done soon. It could also be a way to attract new members.
But there is a snag, namely that we are relatively few at the moment and flooding the forum with lots of threads can become too much to service. So I'll have another look at my list and pare it down for slow release.
But anyway it's a suggestion to everyone, but use with caution.
I've, as you might have noticed, started a thread here (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=56.0)...extremely similar (but subtly different & not the same) to one in MyOpera.
I also (just today) started another thread here (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=99.0)extremely similar (but not the same) to one on MyOpera.......whereas on that one I made it quite clear in my final post there, that I will not be posting there any longer, & that all my future relevant posts will be found here in the [glow=green,2,300]DnD[/glow] Sanctuary[/i] Thread I created.
I don't feel it incumbent upon us to notify, or seek out permission from the original poster in that other Forum if we can make a thread here on similar topics, regardless of how similar those topics may be. To do so, in my honest opinion, is ludicrous at best & totally unnecessary.
But, in the future I will consider doing so, under one proviso ---- that the Original Poster in that other forum signs up as a member here in [glow=green,2,300]DnD[/glow] prior to me creating a extremely similar topic here in [glow=green,2,300]DnD[/glow], unless Frenzie directs me as a future prerequisite, to do so.
But, in the future I will consider doing so, under one proviso ---- that the Original Poster in that other forum signs up as a member here in [glow=green,2,300]DnD[/glow] prior to me creating a extremely similar topic here in [glow=green,2,300]DnD[/glow], unless Frenzie directs me as a future prerequisite, to do so.
string does have a potentially interesting point in that we know these are people who were interested in D&D in the past. A prerequisite—hardly—but maybe not a horrible idea.
The idea I suggested was a device for persuading individuals who had posted interesting threads to join us here.Naturally we don't need anyone's permission to start a similar thread
By the way - I forgot to mention that when I did that backward look at threads, I only found 127 threads - Opera seems to have "misplaced" most of our old threads.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
&&%$***$"£%& ||| !!!!!
Don't worry; they're still there. However, rather annoyingly the forum only shows topics with updates posted within the past 100 days. At the bottom, select "forever". That'll tell you there are over 7000 topics in D&D.
If you wanna do this, you gonna have to do it now.
- Those authors who's been around for some time recently, already know the news and are heading somewhere.
- Those who haven't, there's a possibility they'll come up too late to check their MyOpera mail...
Anyway, when you gonna catch them, then...
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FlA5ANCA.png&hash=94dd04c77fca59d12b4388566c51412e" rel="cached" data-hash="94dd04c77fca59d12b4388566c51412e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/lA5ANCA.png)
ok thanks I'll get back to listing the thread titles.
The idea I suggested was a device for persuading individuals who had posted interesting threads to join us here.Naturally we don't need anyone's permission to start a similar thread
I sincerely hope you don't take my post as a rebuke or rebuttal to your idea......it does have merits & I applaud your desire to attract those users. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
I've thought of advertising the site amongst my 'friends' ("except acquaintances"!) on my Facebook timeline, but I see there are not exactly anybody speaking English (ex.4 a couple I've already informed) and eager to... What? mm...
@SF - No offence was noticed or taken. Thank you
Are you feeling OK? - maybe a lie down .....
Done. (http://www.facebook.com/Josh.sarmat.Lincoln/posts/460815774030016) (The Legion is FEW though...)
FEW?
Congratulations, Frans, you're a Devil now - with your 666 posts3:)
It all goes by so fast. :P
A thread in D&D: List of Threads on DnD Sanctuary (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1812852).
I've only outlined the general structure and not mentioned any topics myself yet...
A thread in D&D: List of Threads on DnD Sanctuary (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=1812852).
I've only outlined the general structure and not mentioned any topics myself yet...
Good work Josh, it all helps since we've stalled a bit.
Here's a little exercise if you have an hour of spare time on your hands.......Goto MyOpera D&D.......Note the top 25 - 30 most active/visited threads with interesting subjects.
Maybe you can take a snapshot so you don't get writers cramps.
Now, visit the threads, & follow the discussion's last 10 or so posts to get the gist of the discussion.
Making sure your signature has a good come-on ad, join the conversation, & just ask the people something like....where they will be taking their discussion to come March 1.....,.,or just simply tell them you've found [glow=black,2,300]The DnD Sanctuary [/glow]an easy forum to get used to/to navigate/to use/whatever, & the people are quite friendly.....you should leave a link in the thread itself ---- ask them to give [glow=black,2,300]The DnD Sanctuary [/glow] a try.
Maybe you could suggest that they might just want to start a new thread in [glow=black,2,300]The DnD Sanctuary [/glow]similar to the one you're in.......Use your own words, & be creative.
What I've suggested here is just that -- a suggestion. Use your own words to deliver a message that doesn't sound to pushy, but something that if you read it, would probably stir your curiosity. Test what you write with a reader's perspective.
Hey, maybe one or two of ya could collaborate. Have a tete-a-tete, & the people there will catch your drift by reading your collaborative interaction....just don't make it too obvious that you might have planned it.
Now do this for each thread.
BTW.....if one or two of us have already done this, so what.......saturating their minds with [glow=black,2,300]The DnD Sanctuary Brand[/glow] is what might get their visit....& any future or shy visitors might just see your post(s) & follow your links too. ;)
...a lot of our potential membership will be coming from the MyOPERA forums...
You say that!..
???
A thread in D&D: List of Threads on DnD Sanctuary.
Updated(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKyapDYu.png&hash=feb6af59c2ef482fa96049357ff658f5" rel="cached" data-hash="feb6af59c2ef482fa96049357ff658f5" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/KyapDYu.png)
http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15103622
We should up our post rate in this critical time before D&D closes to encourage our old friends to remain that way. Someone open a thread on Scotland please!
We should up our post rate in this critical time before D&D closes to encourage our old friends to remain that way.
Agreed!! -- Been there, doing that, & I will step up my
bombardment suggestive posting until the very end, or my banishment ...... whichever comes first!
I will not pull any punches when posting the facts. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageright.gif) (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cleanteeth09.gif)
Frans, I've just experienced an "Oops" again... Some fraction of a minute it lasted...
Like I said before, Opera Turbo (or another relevant proxy) works magic when something from e.g. East Asia is constrained by some bottleneck. Could you try that next time? (also see here (http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/))
Agreed!! -- Been there, doing that, & I will step up my bombardment suggestive posting until the very end, or my banishment ...... whichever comes first!
At this level of bombardment it has turned into spamming, and that is counter productive. All your posts are now advertisement for this forum, and most recent posts at My Opera are yours. If I were a My Opera member that for some reason hadn't made the switch, I would be peeved. On the other hand advertisement works, thus I suggest no more than half your posts should be ads, maybe no less than a third. The rest should be regular posting.
Agreed!! -- Been there, doing that, & I will step up my bombardment suggestive posting until the very end, or my banishment ...... whichever comes first!
At this level of bombardment it has turned into spamming, and that is counter productive. All your posts are now advertisement for this forum, and most recent posts at My Opera are yours. If I were a My Opera member that for some reason hadn't made the switch, I would be peeved. On the other hand advertisement works, thus I suggest no more than half your posts should be ads, maybe no less than a third. The rest should be regular posting.
The only reason I go there, or better put would be caught dead there in that shit-hole of a forum, is to advertise about coming here......to take part in any real discussions there when we have here to do the same would be a waste of my time, my efforts, & my resources.
...... If I were a My Opera member that for some reason hadn't made the switch, I would be peeved........
Why, because I call it like it is.....that MyOPERA sold it's loyal users out to quench it's own self-centered Corporate Greed, & that that won't happen in
the only valid Forum of the Future ........... [glow=black,2,300]
The DnD Sanctuary[/glow]
----- Because [glow=black,2,300]
The DnD Sanctuary[/glow]
is a forum for the Users, & a forum by the Users ...... no ex-CEOs or other Corporate ilk .... just regular Forum Users looking out for one another, for each others benefit. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cleanteeth09.gif)
Because first you would bore me, then you would annoy me, which isn't very good if you want to attract me to this place. I might stay away on spite.
I am not sure if there are any more people left to attract, but if there are it would be more constructive to be active on the forums, and then by contagion get them here.
I am not sure if there are any more people left to attract, but if there are it would be more constructive to be active on the forums, and then by contagion get them here.
I intend to continue posting in D&D, but in my own way, using my own style, telling it the way I see it.
If that upsets, bores, or disturbs some readers there, then maybe they
aren't adult enough to enjoy an
'Adult Forum' like
[glow=black,2,300]
The DnD Sanctuary.[/glow]
Well, here are somethings I wrote a short while back, & it might hopefully clear things up a tad for ya:
From my perspective, that argument doesn't really work. He stepped down as CEO in 2010, and in 2011, this is how he resigned from Opera completely (according to Wikipedia):
Dear All,
It is with a heavy heart that I send this message. Next week will be my last at Opera. It has become clear that The Board, Management and I do not share the same values and we do not have the same opinions on how to keep evolving Opera. As a result I have come to an agreement with the Board to end my time at Opera. I feel the Board and Management is more quarterly focused than me. I have always worked to build the company for the future. I believe the foundation we have is very solid to build further upon.
I do believe strongly in Opera as a company, and in all of you working here. Our products actually make a difference for a lot of people in the world, and I wish you all the best of luck moving forward. I will be following the company closely and rooting for you all.
Yours truly, Jon.
These differences of opinion with the board seem to point to the difference between the Opera that I liked and the Opera that made an increasing amount of decisions I don't much understand or care for—including the killing of My Opera. I suspect my sentiment might be shared by many (My) Opera users.
Also note that e.g. Hallvord left Opera because he already knew about the decision to kill My Opera (https://vivaldi.net/blogs/entry/farewell-to-my-opera).
I think you missed my point.
I was suggesting that we accentuate the positives ............ That [glow=green,2,300]DnD [/glow]users aren't subject to the same Corporate pitfalls & Corporate abuse in [glow=green,2,300]DnD[/glow], because [glow=green,2,300]DnD [/glow]is run in the best interests of the Users, by the users, not a CEOish type.
What this particular individual CEO may have or not have done, or how he personally felt has nothing to do with my point(s).
User run = Good & wholesome. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/angel010.gif)
CEOish Corporate run = Bad, Disgusting, & totally prone to Corporate Corruption. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/satan003.gif)
Capice? (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/hatsoff.gif)
Also, Opera co-founder Jon started a MyOpera replacement site.
http://vivaldi.net/
Go for both.
By all means.
If you like the way Corporations treat their valued & loyal users, why not give Vivalldi.net a try.
After all they just might be completely different than all the other Corporations like them who put their own needs ahead of the users.
For certain of one thing though, that The DnD Sanctuary at https://dndsanctuary.eu isn't in any way connected to a former CEO of anything, or any Corporate entity beholden to anyone.........least of all shareholders who demand profits that the Corporations, like OPERA had to get them.
You can take comfort in the knowledge you will have a future free of Corporate interests taking front seat over user needs.....,because it's run by the lil guys....the users just like you & me.
You won't be thrown under the bus like the Loyal Opera Users in these MyOpera Forums crudely were by Opera.
Clear, succinct, & to the point ..... but most of all from the heart & true. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
You may consider giving links to MyOpera posts promoting the Sanctuary to your friends on other services, if they are friends (for now).
String is expressing hope and intent to gather more members here, whereas I have seen Frenzie express concerns for constraints of space - we as a whole should not go over a gigabyte. These two statements point in diametrically opposite directions concerning the future of the forums. Are we to produce text to attract new members, who in turn would naturally produce even more text, or are we not?
If we intend to expand, then I just got an idea. I personally am missing a blogging platform. I would go to Blogspot or Wordpress (and very likely I will), but why not give this place a chance?
Specifically, I miss a simple interface to enter plain text, mark some of it as code or pre, and hit publish. I tried to make a blog post at Vivaldi, and over there it's way too advanced. Plain text with some intended code here and there gets ruthlessly HTMLised beyond repair. I hate that wysiwyg interface with a source-code view button that demands a complicated browser to work with and in the end you still don't know what you will get.
I suggest a blogging platform with a web interface non-different from what we have at the forums. Just like at good old My Opera. This would certainly make me even more productive here, we would be able to reach 1 GB faster and declare our goals accomplished sooner.
I suggest we all embark on Mike's van and forum in Illinois, then moving to Great Lakes and blog there...
String is expressing hope and intent to gather more members here, whereas I have seen Frenzie express concerns for constraints of space - we as a whole should not go over a gigabyte. These two statements point in diametrically opposite directions concerning the future of the forums. Are we to produce text to attract new members, who in turn would naturally produce even more text, or are we not?
1GB is quite a lot. :)
1GB is quite a lot. :)
How much is it? Can you put up a graph in stats how far from 1GB we are?
And I take it that the answer to some kind of blogging pages is no.
About blogging... We take to Mike's van...
Oh, it's not that story:)
About blogging. Not everybody has itching to blog. Who has - most have sompm.
Here we have personal pages (profile). You have your own site and cite it? Well - you either have a blog there or, if elsewhere, are likely to reference it there. In case you do not have a site but do have a blog somewhere and eager to share it with us (THE us:LOL:), your "personal site" link here is waiting to acquire your blog's URL!:cheers:
How much is it? Can you put up a graph in stats how far from 1GB we are?
The current space used is 36MB, but the database size is only 5MB. As an overly cautious rule of thumb, you can say it's about 1kB per post on average. Also note that old posts can optionally be purged (although I'd back them up separately first). And let's not forget, even on My Opera a million posts took over three years.
And I take it that the answer to some kind of blogging pages is no.
Not as a general feature, no. I might (possibly, maybe) be able to accommodate a few individuals if they'd really like to use thedndsanctuary.eu/ersi, but not as a means of attracting people.
And I take it that the answer to some kind of blogging pages is no.
Not as a general feature, no. I might (possibly, maybe) be able to accommodate a few individuals if they'd really like to use thedndsanctuary.eu/ersi, but not as a means of attracting people.
Nah, I don't want to be individually accommodated. I really meant it as a means of attracting people in general - with features that I'd personally appreciate. Maybe my idea will sound more attractive at some other time...
Btw, keeping the size at 1GB sounds like a lot of maintenance work, but looks like you already have the tools at hand. I'm not at the device where I could measure the size of my personal email correspondence, but I'm sure it's 1GB at least. Sure, sound and video file attachments account for some weight lately...
Updated once again (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findpost.pl?id=15127642):)
Guys, stop shitting in the brand new home. Even MyOpera is not dead enough yet - when you're in the middle of mashing the Forum into an indiscernible chat mess. It won't attract such new members that I'd like to welcome here - seriously thinking guys who loves meaningful conversation.
I think that people should realize that DnD will be what D&D was. Twenty or thirty people (at the most) usually posting. We are already thirty five.
From times to times some unwary will be caught into the net without any effort.
There's no place "to grow". We are too much boring for the masses... :)
Viewing the bored index
:P
Well, MyOPERA is on the brink of closure -- going read only momentarily or sooner.
I took a look a Wikipedia from a link that Google gave me when I searched on the terms "MYOPERA ALTERNATIVES".
While I found absolutely no mentions of [glow=black,2,300]The DnD Sanctuary[/glow] on the first page of results,
I did find a link to a Wiki on My Opera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Opera).
I searched that Wiki & just like the search results, there wasn't even a mention there of [glow=black,2,300]The DnD Sanctuary. [/glow]
Being that I think that article is editable, maybe someone with the know-how could insert a blurb mentioning the existence of [glow=black,2,300]The DnD Sanctuary,[/glow] at the very least.
After all the article seems to center on MyOPERA closure/alternative(s), & that Vivaldi.net seems to be the only alternative to MyOPERA.
We all know that isn't at all true, but if one less knowledgeable should read that Wiki as written, it's the only impression one can come away with.....no?
The clock is ticking on MyOPERA, & about to chime...................Your thoughts???
I believe that Wikipedia policy prevents me from adding such a thing myself. For that matter, I'm not sure the text on Vivaldi.net is technically allowed because at least some of it sounds more like an advertisement than encyclopedic information.
Editing Wikipedia is pretty simple. You just click "edit" and the rest sorta follows by itself. If I were to add a text to Wikipedia, I'd keep it simple along these lines:
Another alternative to My Opera, which aims to rescue the more off-topic discussion boards, is [https://dndsanctuary.eu The DnD Sanctuary].
We're not alternative to MyOpera, this site is an alternative to PART of MyOpera's Forum.
Isn't it time to make the site more attractive to the wider public?
Any suggestions?
Yes, we could fake the statistics and present 54 million users. Than we sell the forum by a fortune and I keep the money since it was my idea.
Easier said than done. Unless you know of any really gullible millionaires. :P :jester:
Well, guys! brainstorm!
Where can we, how - to attract someone and at the same time worrying about the community's spirit?
And one more thing: from now on my 'status' shows wrong - I'm not a "Hero Member" anymore, but SOMETHING ELSE:insane:
Guys (Fb 'friends'), if you don't mind, would you please come up and 'like' this status of mine (http://www.facebook.com/Josh.sarmat.Lincoln/posts/486428618135398)?
And one more thing: from now on my 'status' shows wrong - I'm not a "Hero Member" anymore, but SOMETHING ELSE:insane:
(Must-keep-killer-fingers-away-from-keyboard. :devil: )
Note: Unless something changed, Josh is still showing as "Hero Member" on the page I'm looking at.
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/HeDidIt.gif)
(Must-keep-killer-fingers-away-from-keyboard. :devil: )
(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif)
What do you want me to? Search for another forum?
I'll again reach out to John (the Nigerian dude), Cocoa_Butter, and garydenness.
Seems as though they have forgotten us, and all could add so much to our magnificent forum. :cheers:
So . . .
Our membership reaches 100 with Webmut!
:hat:
Have all those "Members" been vetted as legitimate, specifically those with no (zero) posts for over 30 days?
Another concerned member has advised me that there are also a few "sockpuppets" as well.
Any validity to that?
If so, shouldn't they (the 'sockpuppets') be purged immediately, & stricken from the rolls,,,no??? (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/imthinkin6.gif)
If so, shouldn't they (the 'sockpuppets') be purged immediately, & stricken from the rolls,,,no???
Banned accounts do not contribute to the member count, nor do they show up on the member list.
As for those members who still have 0 posts, that's a bit harder to say.
So 'SockPuppets' are a non-issue then, as they don't actually exist.......anymore. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/thumbs/good.gif)
As far as the 'ZERO Posters', or non-posters/non-participants, surely they should be purged after a specific/acceptable/reasonable period of time. Don't need a pod of attack zombies waiting in the wings for a favorable dawn if you know what I mean.
I don't see how one caactically decide which "zero poster" who wants to be part of our community and is waiting for the right time or subject to post, and one which is waiting silently with a terribly wicked subversive agenda but has not done anything about it.
But you're right SF to point out that the 100 figure is inflated for some reasons. I thought over that myself, but then it's like my address book which contains telephone numbers of people I'll probably not hear from again. I can't be bothered to purge it and, after all, why bother.
As for sock-puppets, if you know of examples let the admin know. Josh had some for example, but they been expunged.
From my personal viewpoint I'm not against sock-puppets as such. I used ggg-string in the Opera D&D for example as a "literary device" but it was hardly secret, the key point being that it being a sock-puppet was not hidden. If you'll pardon a well meaning tease, I think they are something which should be related and not banned.
I don't see how one caactically decide which "zero poster" who wants to be part of our community and is waiting for the right time or subject to post, and one which is waiting silently with a terribly wicked subversive agenda but has not done anything about it.
A long while back, when I belonged to a number of forums, a couple of them notified on inactivity with a polite, but succinct e-mail basically saying, if you intend on remaining a member we'd like to know about it, while there was one that emphatically made activity a requirement, & if you didn't become active by some point in time, your posting rights would be be suspended (you just couldn't post) & you would need to reactivate before posting. If I recall reactivation entitled you to 3 posts a day for something like 7 days at which time your posting rights were totally restored.
Personally I believe a polite email notification....the are you OK? Can we help? approach is most favorable.
As an aside, "caactically" should be "actually". Sorry about that!
As I wrote, I've wondered about the zero posters myself, but had no particular ideas for solution of the "problem". I put "problem" because I'm not sure it is one, many forums have much more members than active members i would imagine and it's only when some posts something silly like we've got 100 Members now (implying aren't we clever!) that it disturbs truth. There are a variety of reasons that people don't post eg
don't visit the forum any more because they are sick, on holiday or decided it was not interesting enough, have not found a subject worth discussing, prefer to have a good laugh watching people like you and me saying daft things and so on.
Of the things you suggested I like a polite interactive approach but responding to a non poster would require quite some effort, so I'm sure Frenzie would have an opinion on that so if we could find an automatic way to weed out posters and/or encourage them to post it would be good. I note that the system would probably need to keep a record of past members at least for a while after their dismemberment.
If there are statistics on the last visit, then that might be a way of selecting "serious" Members who nevertheless stayed around while not posting. So would not affect those that are our admiring but silent public if there are such, but would catch those that are simply membership collectors.
One approach would be to limit what a new poster could do until they achieved a certain number of posts (say 50?) (D&D had some sort of scheme like this in the early days but I forget what it was - maybe, if he reads this Jax might remember). I don't like the 3 per day figure - that is actually quite intensive for people feeling their way and not sustainable over the long term.
One device would be to prevent the new poster's use of links until he had passed the probationary number of posts (this would be also useful to act as a SPAM Blocker).
Another would be to block entry to Forum Administration & Future.
Whether this can be done with the Forum Software, only Frans can say.
Whether anything should be done - let's see where people sit on that.
One thing we must also bear in mind is how the Otter Browser Forum would fit into this
Whether anything should be done - let's see where people sit on that.
Just let the forum in the hands of destiny. :)
Inch Allah, I suppose.
A forum is not something that needs to be build but rather a café - or a Saloon, depending on each one's civilizational influence, where sometimes there's a lot of people while, other times, there's no one.
Having strippers helps to the affluence, but I doubt that the world is prepared to watch us dancing the Can Can.
So, let's keep on drinking.
One device would be to prevent the new poster's use of links until he had passed the probationary number of posts (this would be also useful to act as a SPAM Blocker).
Perhaps spammers will one day necessitate such action, but due to the lack of spam I'd think the security questions seem to be doing a decent enough job weeding out illegitimate posters.
I posted a link to this site on another forum I am a member of. Might be able to attract some new members around here. :cheers:
I posted a link to this site on another forum I am a member of. Might be able to attract some new members around here. :cheers:
Why??
I seem to be doing well enough reinventing myself on a regular basis .... who needs new blood?
RJ makes sure I bleed enough (don't get me wrong, occasionally I get my shot to the knutts in too just when he thinks he's got me) (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/chuckle002.gif) (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cowboypistol_004.gif)
Good goin' there Johnnyreb! (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)
I posted a link to this site on another forum I am a member of. Might be able to attract some new members around here. :cheers:
Good for you - I've done the same, even invited one or two to join in who I thought would be fun members, but so far it's not really worked.
If I look at the threads we have in DnD Central, some have become hackneyed and very difficult to contribute to because they have so much back baggage and history that it's a daunting idea to even get into them. There are some timeless threads such as Good News which don''t need any knowledge of what has gone before to contribute but for many I've found it difficult to get back in after being away over Christmas.
Maybe some more thread titles would help, or even re-inventing some to give them a fresh start.
Edit: I just saw Jax's Thread on repetitive titles on "What's Going On ...". It fits with what I was writing above.
It's good to see that the Otter Browser Ping generates interest - thanks to Emdek for that one in linking us to Otter as its official forum.
By the way - congratulations, Manchester United have at last scored more goals this season as Bournemouth. Wont last of course.
The titles in that overview were not "repetitive" (well, with one exception).
I don't think existing threads will deter new members, quite the opposite. Lack of activity, or too much of the wrong activity, might.
I posted a link to this site on another forum I am a member of. Might be able to attract some new members around here. :cheers:
Good for you - I've done the same, even invited one or two to join in who I thought would be fun members, but so far it's not really worked.
If I look at the threads we have in DnD Central, some have become hackneyed and very difficult to contribute to because they have so much back baggage and history that it's a daunting idea to even get into them. There are some timeless threads such as Good News which don''t need any knowledge of what has gone before to contribute but for many I've found it difficult to get back in after being away over Christmas.
Maybe some more thread titles would help, or even re-inventing some to give them a fresh start.
Edit: I just saw Jax's Thread on repetitive titles on "What's Going On ...". It fits with what I was writing above.
It's good to see that the Otter Browser Ping generates interest - thanks to Emdek for that one in linking us to Otter as its official forum.
By the way - congratulations, Manchester United have at last scored more goals this season as Bournemouth. Wont last of course.
Yeah, it was my favorite sports forum, and as it is, the new member @Djcrenshaw, took me up on the link. I had hoped others would join too, but then again, it appears to me that many in my region of the deep south are very wary of getting in on an international forum and international opinion. After all, opinions masquerading as facts are much more comforting. ;)
lol, yes, I doubt it lasts either. :cheers:
@SmileyFaze: :cheers: sir and lol!