The DnD Sanctuary

In Series 1, Putin survived the Russian Constitution rule limiting Presidents to two terms by an adroit  disappearance stage left and reappearance from stage right. He is now in the first part of a second two-term Presidency before, presumably, temporarily disappearing stage left again.

We join him at an interesting point in his glorious career as he contemplates acquisitive adventures befitting Soviet Nostalgia, seeking to win friends and influence people. . . . Well 1 out of 2 is not too bad.

What can we look forward to this time?

Some results are starting to come in.

Russia booed at Eurovision semi-final (http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27306108)

In Series 1, Putin survived the Russian Constitution rule limiting Presidents to two terms by an adroit  disappearance stage left and reappearance from stage right. He is now in the first part of a second two-term Presidency before, presumably, temporarily disappearing stage left again.

Wrong.
He just sits there. The presidency institution was thrown aside quite ago already.

Russia booed at Eurovision semi-final (http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27306108)

Oh no, not the Eurovision!  :o

Yes, Eurovision is not high diplomacy, but that's the point. Just normal people, not politicians making   auto-political points. Whether the jeers are are a result of media hype or joined-up thinking remains to be seen.

For non Europeans who don't know the Eurovision Song Contest, it's a nonsense competition whose chief plus point (IMHO) is it's hands-across-the borders let's all be friends together facade. Voting for the "best song"  is a mixture of genuine musical preference and old political/cultural alliances. So, for example, Cyprus always votes for Greece, Denmark for Iceland, , Ukraine for Russia etc.

This year's voting promises to be interesting.

Russian law bans swearing in arts and media (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27286742)

As far as I'm concerned swearing serves only to identify the inarticulate, but banning it in law! It's like blasphemy, how do you define something that has no universal meaning? The new Russian law sounds like, smells like, IS the first step towards censorship of anything which is uncomfortable to the Russian Government.

Now perhaps if the word "Putin" were adopted as a swear word - how would that work?

You are judging the country by Western attitudes (not that they are not without morality questions). Russia is a more tradtionally conservative nation  and has been moving greatly away from the deadness of the Soviet nightmare. Look how long it took the USA and it still isn't right.

RJ. 1, he's not judging Russia;
2, you're wrong anyway: THESE population CANNOT possibly "move away" from--- From WHAT THEY ACTUALLY ARE. (Maybe some next generations could - if and when they are ALLOWED to be born and grow up.)

the Soviet nightmare

And you may lose "the" - because such things are generic.
"Regimes" are not borne extraterrestrially. You and me are to blame for any bad guys. Politics/tyrants/sunavabitches - are scum and consequences -- *ucking consequences of people's behaviour.

Wow, My country did not have a cruel and despotic tyranny and mass death purge. It was yours so keep the guilt to yourself. No similarity at all. What is pleasing is to see Russia with the pre-1918 flag, symbols and the cavalry on Red Square Victory Parade for the first time in actual Imperial uniform. Now that is a better past. You're bad lot are gone for good.

It depends on how "cruel and despotic" are viewed.

From a review of Churchill’s Secret War: The British Empire and the Ravaging of India during World War II.

The author points out that Churchill, explaining why he defended the stockpiling of food within Britain, while millions died of starvation in Bengal, told his private secretary that ‘the Hindus were a foul race, protected by their mere pullulation from the doom that is their due.’ Pullulation, Mukerjee notes, means rapid breeding.

Your fawning pal Josh, was on how an individual country is run and I stand by what I said as correct. How we ran this country has no comparison with the USSR. That you want to hive off hardly puts you in the moral corner. Just look what you did to large numbers of Red Indians on expanding and taking over. Starvation, corrupted them, diddled and worse. Be careful you don't open a Pandora Box! Morality is a cover for the corporate imperialism of today based - guess where? (!)

There has been some speculation about Putin's wealth for some time. If you Google
Putin billions
You will see what I mean.

As the Ukraine related sanctions are ratcheted upwards, they approach Putin himself, if those rumours are true.

But if they are, at least he has a nice summer house to relax in, according to this (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4096654.ece). On the Black Sea Coast . . .  I wonder where!

But surely those rumours are not true, no-one could actually earn that much money, could they.

Whether he is rich or not is of little importance it is the obnoxious propaganda being dished out by our politicians and the media. And anyway on the subject of wealth you can include the American Senate where 40% are millionaires and many multi and 60% of the Lower House so how about that one then? They are all influenced by the corporates who really control the US and ensure the preventatives of the people (chuckle) are cumfy off.

Putin also said on the media that when he heard of one bank being target for sanctions he intended to open a new account with it. Not everyone in Europe is overly keen on the anti-Russian sanctions including the Germans. Anyway Russia will lean now more towards the BRICK and East.

Not much significance in how much Putin formally owns. But the power he wields and the way he uses it matters a lot. For example he made Winter Olympics in the warmest place of Russia at the time when there's no snow there, the only reason being his desire to view the games from the balcony of his own villa. The Crimean annexation also seems to have no better justification than to extend the backyard of Putin's villa.

Baloney and a typical reaction having been brained by Western propaganda. He was elected  by a majority or must it be what we in the West decide what is acceptable? After all look at the power the US dishes out all over the world and the constant wars it has created. At the same time it likes to think it is a democracy and has some inalienable right to control the world. The West has no moral high ground and time after time "democracy" claims have been the excuse for the money barons to get what they want and stuff the world.

Russia by tradition is a conservative nation and whatever way a country wants to be ruled is up to them and we should keep our snouts out as we are hypocritical. Regarding Crimea may i remind that it was part of Russia until the Communist dictator of the time gave it away. The Crimeans did NOT want that so they are back where they WANT to be. America organised a coup against the kingdom of Hawaii and took the place over against thee wishes of the people. It took a damn long time forthe USA to apologise for that (President Clinton). Equally America insists on staying on the territory of the Republic of Cuba. It refuses to leave and in addition still maintains it's concentration camp there. A camp which has had people incarcerated for 11 years with no charges able to be brought against them.

When you look at the US record in the world it has a damn nerve to make false accusations against Putin. Neither Putin or Russia wants to do what America thinks it has a right to do across the globe so get wise ersi.

No, I disagree with you there, rjh. Putin's alleged wealth is important.

The sanctions thus far have focused on the holdings of the lower echelons of Putin's Russia's power base, first at one level, then at the next; gradually getting closer to Putin himself.

It's clearly a warning to Putin personally that he stands to lose personally if he escalates the Ukraine situation or in another adventure.

Now of course I don't know whether that huge wealth attributed to Putin is real or imaginary. Maybe it's propaganda or maybe it's for real. But if it's for real and funds are located in the West, then this is a real pressure point.

IF so, it goes further. As I wrote/implied, there's no way that amount of money can be earned by someone of Putin's official background (KGB Weanie;  and then politician); such wealth can only be acquired through, shall we say, murky means. The link I gave hints at such. So IF that wealth is there, dirt exists to be dug and it could get real personal.

Now that would be real pressure.

So I am merely pointing out that there could be not just a rise, but also a fall of the Imperious Putin.

I doubt it - I think he'll back off.

Your hobby horse remarks about the US are not an issue unless you give your personal dossier of facts to Putin and he plans his own exposure of, say, Obama. However that I also doubt

By the way (http://whattoseeinmallorca.com/2014/04/26/rumours-that-putin-is-in-town/)

By the way (http://whattoseeinmallorca.com/2014/04/26/rumours-that-putin-is-in-town/)

Ah, Putin was in town figuratively speaking, represented by his purchaser. Because a couple days ago, when I was in Shanghai, Putin came visiting.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fimage%2Fs9%2F187254%2Ffull%2F28_si.jpg&hash=28155e1e3bc9d18acce3da71432ef339" rel="cached" data-hash="28155e1e3bc9d18acce3da71432ef339" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.sott.net/image/image/s9/187254/full/28_si.jpg)

Well you are right there string in that we do not agree! There are plenty of leaders who are comfortably off - our own Prime Minister for example and many others so why people pinpoint Putin is still odd.

Well you are right there string in that we do not agree! There are plenty of leaders who are comfortably off - our own Prime Minister for example and many others so why people pinpoint Putin is still odd.

40 billion (if true) is beyond rich, but that's beside the point; I am pointing out a possible intent of the ratcheting sanctions.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-05-24, 13:46:42

Well you are right there string in that we do not agree! There are plenty of leaders who are comfortably off - our own Prime Minister for example and many others so why people pinpoint Putin is still odd.

40 billion (if true) is beyond rich, but that's beside the point; I am pointing out a possible intent of the ratcheting sanctions.

I think Donetsk will be the turning point in his ambition(s).
Annex it and he leaves no doubt, leave it as is and cause further doubt regarding his ambition.

40 billion (if true) is beyond rich, but that's beside the point;

"if true" - but this seems to be beside the point as well ;)

I think Donetsk will be the turning point in his ambition(s).
Annex it and he leaves no doubt, leave it as is and cause further doubt regarding his ambition.

He is a thorn in the eyes of the West and whatever he does, he is doomed :)
Where are the good ole times when Russia was reigned by an alcoholic like Yeltsin.

Yes Russia will be damned no matter what and it is simply because the West sees it as a threat financially and business-wise. I do not think the Russian leader has any wish to invade the east and right to leave the mess which the West and the Kiev nutters created to them!

Russian MPs back law on internet data storage (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28173513)

Russia's lower house of parliament has passed a law requiring internet companies to store Russian citizens' personal data inside the country.
The Kremlin says the move is for data protection but critics fear it is aimed at muzzling social networks like Twitter and Facebook.
The Russian government is thought to be seeking greater access to user data.
Social networks were widely used by protesters opposing President Vladimir Putin's return to the Kremlin in 2012.
Analysts say there are fears that Russia may be seeking to create a closed and censored version of the internet within its borders.
The new bill must still be approved by the upper chamber and President Putin before it becomes law.

.........

Worrying.

Putin's wealth, net worth, etc.      

Newsmax.com  $40 Billion

Therichest.com   $75 Billion

NYTimes.com    $40 to $75 Billion

Stanislav Belkovsky  $60 to $70 Billion

Putin  said that his income in 2013 was $187,000

Wealthwire.com  "According to the Russian Central Electoral Commission, McClenaghan reports, Putin has $179,612 in the bank and has earned around half a million dollars in the past four years. His wife Lyudmila has $261,541 in four bank accounts."

I have no idea, and don't care which, if any number, is closest to the truth.
=============================================
Which international leader is completely trustworthy?

"US intelligence chiefs have confirmed that the National Security Agency has used a "back door" in surveillance law to perform warrantless searches on Americans’ communications."

Russian MPs back law on internet data storage (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28173513)

Quote

Russia's lower house of parliament has passed a law requiring internet companies to store Russian citizens' personal data inside the country

.........

Worrying.

Storing Russian citizens' data inside the country?
Something unimaginable to happen in Western countries.

We are lucky for not living in Putin's Russia. In our shiny democracies nobody is storing our personal data (my ISP does but only to keep me safe) and nobody is spying on us. NSA and GCHQ, to name just two of the most famous agencies, are just protecting us from terrorists and pedophile.
So at least we have nothing to worry about here :)

In NSA-intercepted data, those not targeted far outnumber the foreigners who are (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-nsa-intercepted-data-those-not-targeted-far-outnumber-the-foreigners-who-are/2014/07/05/8139adf8-045a-11e4-8572-4b1b969b6322_story.html)

One has to take it you are being satiircal dear man as the truth is something else?  :D

At the moment Putin the Magnificent seems to find great favour in his Russia; he is autocratic, an admired trait, he can and does stick up for Russia and he is visibly resuscitating, bit by bit, the good old days of the Soviet Empire. Annexing The Crimea makes him a hero. Annexing The eastern shores of Ukraine would make him a super hero.

But he's not that bright, he's put his future in the hands of wild men excited by dreams of a past that no longer exists.

Some may call Putin "The Magnificent", to others he's just Mad Vlad. If only that could get through Russia's muzzled Press to it's people, Putin would be finished. No nation likes their leader to cast their country as a villain, let alone the village idiot. Someone should tell him.

Oh you are very wrong there on Putin's intelligence. I have watched him closely at one of those hours long sessions he does in front of media and his knowledge and experience suitably impressive. On a lesser note when he visited a television studio and had questions from staff there he was well versed too.

If Russia likes a strong leader then that is up to them and to quote the old USSR dictatorship is insulting and indeed i am somewhat surprised at you coming away with that one. Comparing the modern Russia with the restricted Red dictatorship is daft.  Just comparing day to day things like modern and varied shopping, vast traffic jams compared to the old days when you could almost put the few cars about as Party people.  May I also remind that it does not have hundreds of military bases all over the world as an excuse for "security" like you-know who. Likewise the level of poverty in the USA runs into tens of millions, corporates run the place and you have the nerve to lambaste putin?! The Russian federation has moved on in giant strides in every direction and is nothing like the USSR at all and such a comment is not very intelligent but just a parody extension of the propaganda being hyped on that country.

Throwin in Crimea is a silly bandwagon to climb on especially as the place did not want to be inUkraine when Kruschov gave it away and the place is back where it wants to be. Annexation is just another DC nonsense. The same US and West will okay referendums elsewhere even when wrong and when it suits them.  Putin has also stated he is not trying to take the East of ukraine and fine you know it and he has repeated this stance in the face of an ignorant West. Certainly a difficult one for him considering that the East is full of his people yet he never at any time said he was going to invade. With all the political immorality of the West it is a bit much to spear at Putin and Russia. In linking as part of the BRICK group he is showing much depth and shrewdness and his trip around South America once the home of all those former dictatorships kept in place by the US of A will bring in time further rewards. Indeed his diplomacy compared to that fool Kerry is like night and day and look at thatcorner if you want scarce intelligence!

One thing that keeps bugging me is, whenever the rebels do something that requires a little bit of organization or skill there's HOLY FUCK RUSSIA MUST HAVE TRAINED THE REBEL SCUM!!!!eleventyone!!!!
Didn't it ever occur to anyone that many of them might have served in the ukrainian/russian/soviet military?

At the moment Putin the Magnificent seems to find great favour in his Russia;

By far not only in his Russia ... How about the BRIC countries?

How about them? Do you have information showing that Putin is popular there as an individual?  I'd not seen that. I know there are agreements in place, but that's not the same thing. I like watching football but that does not mean I am a fan of Blatter.

One thing that keeps bugging me is, whenever the rebels do something that requires a little bit of organization or skill there's HOLY FUCK RUSSIA MUST HAVE TRAINED THE REBEL SCUM!!!!eleventyone!!!!
Didn't it ever occur to anyone that many of them might have served in the ukrainian/russian/soviet military?

Yes, there is a bit of that and I agree that in general such training would have come from experiences in both Russia and Ukraine. However there are thought to be Russian advisors helping the rebel ranks. Training
in use of the rockets would be specialist and we will have to wait to find out, if we ever do, who was trained where. So far there are intelligence reports that the missiles themselves were from Russia.

At the moment Putin the Magnificent seems to find great favour in his Russia;
snip

Not to mention Scotland

It look like someone has taken Putin aside and shouted in his ear, this announcement is of an entirely different character than the one before (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28397890). The first sentence in that clip is interesting - I wonder what he's getting at there.

But his future actions are more important than one short speech.

Oh you are very wrong there on Putin's intelligence. I have watched him closely at one of those hours long sessions he does in front of media and his knowledge and experience suitably impressive. On a lesser note when he visited a television studio and had questions from staff there he was well versed too.

If Russia likes a strong leader then that is up to them and to quote the old USSR dictatorship is insulting and indeed i am somewhat surprised at you coming away with that one. Comparing the modern Russia with the restricted Red dictatorship is daft.  Just comparing day to day things like modern and varied shopping, vast traffic jams compared to the old days when you could almost put the few cars about as Party people.  May I also remind that it does not have hundreds of military bases all over the world as an excuse for "security" like you-know who. Likewise the level of poverty in the USA runs into tens of millions, corporates run the place and you have the nerve to lambaste putin?! The Russian federation has moved on in giant strides in every direction and is nothing like the USSR at all and such a comment is not very intelligent but just a parody extension of the propaganda being hyped on that country.

Throwin in Crimea is a silly bandwagon to climb on especially as the place did not want to be inUkraine when Kruschov gave it away and the place is back where it wants to be. Annexation is just another DC nonsense. The same US and West will okay referendums elsewhere even when wrong and when it suits them.  Putin has also stated he is not trying to take the East of ukraine and fine you know it and he has repeated this stance in the face of an ignorant West. Certainly a difficult one for him considering that the East is full of his people yet he never at any time said he was going to invade. With all the political immorality of the West it is a bit much to spear at Putin and Russia. In linking as part of the BRICK group he is showing much depth and shrewdness and his trip around South America once the home of all those former dictatorships kept in place by the US of A will bring in time further rewards. Indeed his diplomacy compared to that fool Kerry is like night and day and look at thatcorner if you want scarce intelligence!

The ability to blather on for a long time, whether it be spoken or written, does not prevent the person involved from committing idiotic acts.

There is no doubt that Putin has been in charge in Russia at a time when regressive changes such as curtailment of the freedom of the press have taken place.

If you had actually read what I wrote you would see the reference to the Crimea as part of the background to why he is popular in Russia. Am I to take it that you actually agree with the Russian action on that one?

If Putin was even remotely bright he could extricate himself to some extent now. Potential arguments are there, blaming undisciplined rebels, faulty equipment, talking about defensive measures and so on. Let's see what, if anything, he comes up with. Continual denial is not going to help him one bit.

The Russian people are not stupid, they can browse and talk.

How about them? Do you have information showing that Putin is popular there as an individual?  I'd not seen that. I know there are agreements in place, but that's not the same thing. I like watching football but that does not mean I am a fan of Blatter.

Of course it doesn't. Neither am I (at least something we can agree on :D ).
The difference is that we didn't vote for Blatter but those people (maybe excepting China) have got the vote of their people.

If Putin was even remotely bright he could extricate himself to some extent now. Potential arguments are there, blaming undisciplined rebels, ...

Blaming undisciplined rebels?
Wonder how a disciplined rebel looks like.
I assume that a rebel taking orders from Washington or London would fit the criteria of a disciplined rebel.
Sometimes rebels can be unpredictable. Disciplined rebels (freedom fighters) like those fighting the Soviets can turn into undisciplined rebels (terrorists) fighting their liberators.

The Russian people are not stupid, they can browse and talk.

That's right but don't expect them therefore to share your views.

Training in use of the rockets would be specialist and we will have to wait to find out, if we ever do, who was trained where. So far there are intelligence reports that the missiles themselves were from Russia.

IIRC they're soviet era anti-aircraft missiles. I see no reason to assume that the separatists wouldn't have anyone in their ranks who is familiar with them. Then again, they did apparently think they were shooting at a military transporter...

Quote from: string on 2014-07-21, 06:43:10

Training in use of the rockets would be specialist and we will have to wait to find out, if we ever do, who was trained where. So far there are intelligence reports that the missiles themselves were from Russia.

IIRC they're soviet era anti-aircraft missiles. I see no reason to assume that the separatists wouldn't have anyone in their ranks who is familiar with them. Then again, they did apparently think they were shooting at a military transporter...

At least a military transport and a commercial aircraft are of similar size and shape. I have to admit that reading the story of the American warship shooting down the Iranian Flt 655 has me wondering. If you can't tell the difference between a commercial airliner and an F-14-- what on Earth are you doing at the controls of anti-aircraft missiles?

Training in use of the rockets would be specialist and we will have to wait to find out, if we ever do, who was trained where. So far there are intelligence reports that the missiles themselves were from Russia.

Wonder if those intelligence reports are similar to those attesting WoMD to Iraq.
BTW, of course they are Soviet era missiles, the same ones the Ukrainian army has deployed in the Donetsk region 2 days before the tragic accident.

I have to admit that reading the story of the American warship shooting down the Iranian Flt 655 has me wondering. If you can't tell the difference between a commercial airliner and an F-14-- what on Earth are you doing at the controls of anti-aircraft missiles?

You can't distinguish an airliner from a F-14 on a monitor. Therefore there is a transponder with a code which signalizes that it is a civil plane. You get that unique code from the state you are passing through. I assume that the operators on the American worship did mismatch that code.

See, our local little incident made it into int'l press. Steven Seagal dropped from Estonia music festival lineup after outcry (http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2014/jul/20/steven-seagal-dropped-estonia-augustibluus-festival)
(No, Krake, it was not me who did this to Steven. I never visited nor planned to visit the event where he was scheduled.)

Steven Seagal

Oh wow. He is still alive. And a reality show? (Bet that's full of catchy one-liners. hehe.)

And Latvia bans three Russian musicians (http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/legislation/?doc=94241)

Too over simplifying an answer at all string. I say this especially with our own intelligence centre and of course no-one can compete with America for not just what it does to it's own citizens but right across the world including leaders of it's own daft allies.  :rolleyes:

When you say "our own", do you mean Russia, DnD, Scotland, G.B.?

When you say "our own", do you mean Russia, DnD, Scotland, G.B.?

Her Majesty's very own spy networks, of course. If you've been following the Snowden stuff you know that the NSA is in bed with the UK equivalent, and they're probably spying on each other too-- given what their jobs actually are.

They carefully skirt the law in this way-- since the NSA can't legally spy on Americans, the UK does it for them, and of course the NSA spies on British citizens and turns that info over to their UK allies.

Try reading what I said tt92. I mentioned not just one country but in your haste  you obviously missed the obvious. And you act like a routine ex-colonists attitude actually by including Scotland in your pointless comment as we are NOT an independent nation.  :whistle:

Try reading what I said tt92. I mentioned not just one country but in your haste  you obviously missed the obvious. And you act like a routine ex-colonists attitude actually by including Scotland in your pointless comment as we are NOT an independent nation.  :whistle:

Today I Learned: Mr. Howie knows how to use the bold feature.

*looks outside for flying pigs*



Mr. Putin is a twat. Always has been a twat. And now, most of Europe is beginning to agree with us, @rjhowie.   :yikes:

Speaking about twats: Orwell alive in Palestine, Ukraine (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-220714.html)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FF1x29yv.jpg&hash=44169d766fa41dc72fe9ab020654d77a" rel="cached" data-hash="44169d766fa41dc72fe9ab020654d77a" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/F1x29yv.jpg)

A self-described political artist has 3D-printed a butt plug in the shape of Russian president Vladimir Putin's head and torso. And much like the real Putin, it's not necessarily something you want invading your, er, sovereign territory.

Fernando Sosa, whose line of celebrity butt toys also includes a Chris Christie and a that-racist-guy-from-Duck-Dynasty, was only able to print the full-color Putin in sandstone, a material not recommended for anal insertion.

"[Is] this 3d printed Putin Butt Plug Safe for use? [T]he 3D Printed Putin butt-plug is NOT safe for use," Sosa asks and answers on his blog.

A safer pink silicone Putin is in the works, presumably due to at least one person's disappointment at not actually being able to sit on a world leader.

But why Putin in particular? Sosa explains:

Quote

Since i started designing this butt plug Putin invaded Ukraine and Republicans have developed a fetish for Putin. I honestly feel that is pretty unpatriotic that the right is now worshiping Putin in order to attack Obama. So i almost wish i could send a couple of these to Fox news since they are so in love with him.

He goes on to declare that the sculpture is a sort of voodoo doll for anyone who opposes Putin's persecution of LGBT people and his incursion into Crimea........Continued

Put Putin in his place.......That's right, where the sun don't shine, & the moon never sets. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/asswave.gif)

Naw Southern laddies, Europe is being forced into agreeing with you. Indeed your President (you know that waffler) has had to admit that Europe would suffer tightening things on Russia but it"needs" to do it. Kind of rich coming from a country that won't be effected. Typical ex-colonist arrogance and hypocrisy. The present and previous US ppresidents have been twats so you obviously been influenced by that no doubt but Putin is very much a clever cookie. When he is interviewed in the annual mass media show for hours (by the way) he comes over knowing much and talking sense. He doesn't want to have hundreds of bases all over the world, destabilise lists of nations, invade them that is America's pride and jhoy and look at the mess they leace each time.

Time after time Puti has indicated no wish to invade East Ukraine but that doesn't stop your Goebells lot in what pases for a political system from coming out with drivel.He has repeatedly stated he has no wish to annexe the East but you lot keep ignoring that. Shows how easy it is to be brained into anything.   And of course SmileyFaze and string are also brained into all the guff from the media which is either guess work or lies. Putin has acted like a diplomat and with Obama and Kerry we have a resurrection of Laurel and Hardy. It just shows that even people who might on the surface seem capable just take in all the shouting lies on television and newspapers.

Naw Southern laddies, Europe is being forced into agreeing with you

Quite right. The facts and Putiekin's actions are forcing Europe into agreement.

destabilise lists of nations, invade them that is America's pride and jhoy and look at the mess they leace each time.

He already already invaded and destabilized Ukraine and happily supplies the separatists with weapons. What's his end game? I can see one of two possibilities: the annexation of the eastern part of Ukraine or more likely creating a client state out of it.

Putin has acted like a diplomat and with Obama and Kerry we have a resurrection of Laurel and Hardy.

I wasn't aware that diplomats seized other nation's territory via obviously rigged elections. I guess maybe they do when they're building an empire. Get ready for Cold War II, thanks to the man you admire so much.

Europe is being forced into agreement because it is the US that is doing the forcing. Europe knows it will suffer in sanctions but the US in it's usual self satisfying way doesn't care a damn as it doesn't effect it!

As for destabilising it was the West led by the good ole US of damn A that supported the demise of a democratically elected government by tugs and terrorists in Kiev may I remind! The East did not support the rebellion and are being punished for it so where are the principles in your convoluted tripe may I ask? Having had the government erased and replaced by one that doesn't care a damn about the East the same region was just meant to lie down and accept such bad matters? You must have been reading comments as you grew up when you should have developed a more careful  and wider appraisal. Then the utter nonsense of stealing Crimea. America and the West will use any subterfuge to accept a referendum when it suits but when it doesn't we get a different stance that is insulting. It was the people of Crimea who wanted to RETURN to where they were happiest. I dare say you were all for the fact that the referendum in the Balkans that seen a province of Serbia taken away was okay? Talk about hypocrisy! They had a referendum which no doubt perhaps initially an embarrassment for Russia as it did NOT have plans to invade. The vote was legitimate and they returned home having been put out by a Communist dictator decades ago. That you side with such an autocratic stance is laughable!

All this guff about Putin is part of the hysterical propaganda being brained into many in the West and you (and to an extend the Colonel) are typical examples of it's success. When it comes to de-stabilising nowhere beats America and because the President of a large nation has the terrible timerity not to accept America's view on being world controller he is abused.  You don't even have the guts to say where you are from unlike me and need to take the propaganda blinkers off.  It is okay for Obama to support the terrorist style actions of the Kiev Army and it's national guard which is full of those neo-Nazi Right Sector. Now the same propaganda machine is making noises about the need to protect the baltic States.

Now there is something brought into the equation because Obama if he has any basic brains,knows he cannot just bellow on about local issues in Ukraine. So throw in the Baltic States which no doubt will make Putin shake his head . It is all part of a Cold War attitude being created by America that land of great principle and morality because Russia does not bend the knee to the US dollar and political autocracy. I wouldn't mind your opinion so much if it was more thought out instead of being so gullible. Hell, i hope Russia starts doing what America has done and starts opening up bases all over the place like S. America and elsewhere! Haha the US would go mental at it's dictatorship stance being "de-stabilised!  :yes: :lol:

I don't trust Putin anymore than any other "world leader".
They are different faces of the same thing.

I was being fooled by attempting to their differences when what's the important part it's what they have in common. Not anymore.

I guess maybe they do when they're building an empire.

WhoTF is building an empire?
WhoTF has build up military bases around the world?
WhoTF is meddling in every corner of the world?
WhoTF is reshaping the Middle East, now Eurasia before pivoting to Asia?

Who has a bee in their bonnet?

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-07-24, 16:25:16

I guess maybe they do when they're building an empire.

WhoTF is building an empire?
WhoTF has build up military bases around the world?
WhoTF is meddling in every corner of the world?
WhoTF is reshaping the Middle East, now Eurasia before pivoting to Asia?

Lemme see. China? No.

Australia? Probably not.

Japan? I don't think so.

The US? That's it! I think I got it.

Question: Should the 2018 World Cup be taken from Russia?
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-aV2-9UYY-l0%2FUxdKBTYMDCI%2FAAAAAAAAAk4%2FH9uKYzjiJeE%2Fs1600%2F1656420_631320423601179_904507712_n.jpg&hash=41a468d9ec86369f214c212a6c68d407" rel="cached" data-hash="41a468d9ec86369f214c212a6c68d407" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aV2-9UYY-l0/UxdKBTYMDCI/AAAAAAAAAk4/H9uKYzjiJeE/s1600/1656420_631320423601179_904507712_n.jpg)
=============================================
Sad to say, Russia is striking back at the heart of the US.

McDonald's Corp , which opened its first Russian restaurant in Moscow in 1990, became an iconic symbol of flourishing American capitalism during the fall of the Soviet Union.

But its Golden Arches may be in the Kremlin's crosshairs as ties between Moscow and Washington have fallen to their lowest point since the end of the Cold War with consecutive rounds of U.S. sanctions over Russia's role in the Ukraine crisis.

"We have identified violations which put the product quality and safety of the entire McDonald's chain in doubt," Anna Popova, the watchdog's head and Russia's chief sanitary inspector, was quoted by Interfax news agency as saying.

He's taking Russia in the right direction and I do wish the US had someone leading it who was moe capable of getting it out of the unfortunate state and the trillions of debt. It's people do deserve something better. On a lesser principled not I don't fathom why Americans get so keen to bring back the Cold war. Some countries do want to think for themselves. As for that cartoonish picture of President Putin it is a bit closer to home for you poor ex-colonists. After all your allies in the  Kiev include the neo-Nazis of the Right Sector. Some are ministers. Thinking on how many were lost in Russia due to Hitler i think that picture is a bit too much in poor state.

I think I got it.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-aV2-9UYY-l0%2FUxdKBTYMDCI%2FAAAAAAAAAk4%2FH9uKYzjiJeE%2Fs1600%2F1656420_631320423601179_904507712_n.jpg&hash=41a468d9ec86369f214c212a6c68d407" rel="cached" data-hash="41a468d9ec86369f214c212a6c68d407" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aV2-9UYY-l0/UxdKBTYMDCI/AAAAAAAAAk4/H9uKYzjiJeE/s1600/1656420_631320423601179_904507712_n.jpg)

Wasn't very hard to guess. Was it?

BTW, nice picture. Does this suit your taste? You don't have to answer, the question is just rhetorical.
A.H. would have been very happy if he could take advantage of the present resources for his propaganda ...

The almost hysterical propaganda on Putin is something else and when you get someone intelligent dishing out this poster stuff it is head shaking.One cannot bleat about political process, voting and so on then scream like mad. How a country votes is up to them except if it doesn't suit the white House. Russia has changed and still doing so and it is a quick process after decades of a cruel and bad dictatorship.  Look how long it took the US to try and be "modern" and so wonderful a 'democracy.' The morality is a game play as long as a country plays what the US wants and heaven help it if it doesn't Maybe the attitude that dishes out this Putin hysteria should spend a bit more time looking inside their own country at the millions of poor, unable to pay for treatment, losse homes and jobs after years of lyalty and work. Throw in the playing with laws to suit the government and the corporates who really run the place. It is the gall of witch-hunting Putin instead of looking at it's own fallacies in the West that are paramount. Today's Russia is basically a conservative people (their right) like strong leadership (their right). Looking back at the USSR days with the long queues at shops, shortages, very active secret police, freezing Gulags and so on. Empty streets with few vehicles, state run shops, private homes disallowed and so on. The place is stil changing and getting there a lot faster than the know-it-alls in the ex-colonies.

The fact that so many Americans are sliding along with a rampant and fanatical media is disturbing especially amongst there that should no better. instead they want to go on a USSR kick.Well good for Putin who politely and carefully tells the great hypocrite leader of the West to politely go take a jump! When you look at the last couple of US presidents you could cry. Putin is a clever cookie and the White house the plaything of the corporates.

He's taking Russia in the right direction

First parts of Georgia, then Ukraine.

WhoTF has build up military bases around the world?

Russia (http://www.bing.com/search?q=russia+building+military+bases+&form=OPRTSD&pc=OPER)

WhoTF is meddling in every corner of the world?

Same answer.

Oh dear. A kind of usual ex-colonist answer having been brained into it by a fanatical media attitude. The part of georgia you refer to was being picked on by it's own "government" hence the rebellion. It also happened to be a Russian enclave and after the way they were treated in that majority province they WANTED to be part of Russia. Georgia mishandled that becaue they were doing what America wanted not wanted citizens in their own country did. Crimea is raised yet again. How often do you need to be told that it was a referendum organised by those in Crimea? And also remind that they were dumped into Ukraine even though they didn't want to be part of it by the former USSR dictatorship. Or is okay to have referendums as long as your lot decide it is okay? Your vision of the world is based on a false basis that you have some inherent right to be the world decider on everything and any country that doesn't want that will be undermined, ostracised or invaded.

So a place has to comnfirm to what the US wants and if not heaven help them. Try looking inside your own country and sorting out all the faults that effects millions of decent Americans and try keeping your nose out everywhere else. it is NOT your responsibility nor right. Neither morally either. I dare say many over the pond who know little about the outside world and has been proved most couldn't point a place on a map believe what the media lambasts them with. America has now created a new cold war for it's own interests and no-one else's The corporates rule the media so what can we expect to be fair.Try looking at things in a broader and less mind brained view and that would be helpful. Russia is sensible enough not to want bases all over the world while you increase your trillions in debt to justify your imperialism and corporate greed. It makes me shake my head that so many decent people over there have had themselves hi-caked in their loyalty to greedy money barons. You embellish that well by doing a less than proper stance.

ps. And greater continued expansion of the BRICK is good news for the world.

When one considers the actual situation in Georgia and Crimea one cannot blame the Russians there wanting to be in the Russian Federation. You folk have a blinkered and daft view of the world and hardly an example to evryone else are you.

Merkel tops Putin hot-line call queue (http://www.thelocal.de/20140821/merkel-tops-putin-hot-line-call-queue)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thelocal.de%2Fuserdata%2Fimages%2Farticle%2Fw468%2Feaab7884ed047d93b0c8023ba5fad772e55b594f8fea62655101ad499f17f0a7.jpg&hash=896ff539bdf7422f7bf3ff6596e08871" rel="cached" data-hash="896ff539bdf7422f7bf3ff6596e08871" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.thelocal.de/userdata/images/article/w468/eaab7884ed047d93b0c8023ba5fad772e55b594f8fea62655101ad499f17f0a7.jpg)

Around 60 percent of respondents said they worried that the crisis will lead to a direct military confrontation between Russia and its former Soviet satellite, according to the Politbarometer survey by public broadcaster ZDF.

Of the more than 1,200 people polled this week, 64 percent believed Russia would seize more territory in eastern Ukraine following the annexation of the Crimea peninsula in March.

The proportion of respondents voicing "great concern" over the policies of Russian President Vladimir Putin rose to 69 percent from 61 percent in May.

Fighting in eastern Ukraine over the past four months has cost some 2,200 lives, with Ukrainian forces advancing against pro-Moscow separatist rebels in the east.......................continued

You can take the [glow=blue,2,300]Vlad [/glow] out of the [glow=blue,2,300]Soviet Union, [/glow] but you can't take the [glow=blue,2,300]Soviet Union [/glow] out of the[glow=blue,2,300] Vlad. [/glow]

Utter nonsense there about the USSR and the present day Russian Federation. Your stuff is that typical neo-con, red neck limited grey cells.

I would say your problem like others that are brained like you that America was involved in the general end of fascism (well except for S. America for years where it suited) and the equal general demise of Communism. Because of that it then thought it was untouchable and self-aggrandizement became the norm. The thinking was that it was untouchable even though what went on inside the place contradicted  the so-called "principles." So smugly self-satisfied it then went on the march to have the world follow it's thinking, style and influence. It was if you like over the top nationalism portrayed as being patriotic, wonderful and entitled to have a mission on the world.Tripe of course but the millions had been propagated by the immoral propaganda folk. If anyone tried to do what the US did that was oh so terribly evil but if it die it then that was wonderfully good.


The hierarchy and corporates who rule the place do not take kindly to anyone not accepting what they want and you will get weakened, boycotted or invaded. It seethes the minds of the neo-cons to be challenged and Russia is in that sphere and America cannot subdue it. Now Russia has hit back with sanctions including Europe especially as well as the US and what do you know they are causing big, big problems in the EEC and it's pals. Obama tried to lean on the country it is hock to, namely China and has been told politely to get stuffed. Equally Latin America is in no rush to stop trading opportunities with the giant Russian market. President Putin has played a blinder in diplomacy and good on him. You can fall back on Cold War mentality if you want in desperation for a stance but you are on a sandy foundation boy. Putin has no interest in attacking Ukraine and even if it did that would be that.

Your mindset pals only want to be the usual gung-ho and think anyone outside your control is be rubbished. What you really need to do is reduce your debt, military expenditure and look after tens of millions of poor ex-colonsist rather than trying to pick a fight to detract minds.

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/biglaugh023.gif)

Ya need ta get a new paira specks ole fella.........Can't see the page fer yer nose??

[glow=black,2,300]Crimea annexation unnerves Germans: Poll[/glow]

I'm not one bit concerned with your  [glow=red,2,300]'Borscht Buddy' Putin, [/glow]or a resurgence of his lil ole [glow=green,2,300]former[/glow] Soviet Union, or
any Russkie invasions or annexations.......[glow=aqua,2,300]the Germans are.[/glow] 

As far as I see it they're but one American missile strike (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KtPx9ziGLo) from extinction anyway & Vice-Verse --
-- they know it...we all know it. Even lil RJH knows it.  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/firefart.gif)

[glow=black,2,300]Crimea annexation unnerves Germans: Poll[/glow]

I'm not one bit concerned with your  [glow=red,2,300]'Borscht Buddy' Putin, [/glow]or a resurgence of his lil ole [glow=green,2,300]former[/glow] Soviet Union, or
any Russkie invasions or annexations.......[glow=aqua,2,300]the Germans are.[/glow]

Are they?
According to the latest poll made by our unbiased media, Germans believe that the world is flat, and resting on the backs of four elephants (Republican party of the USA?) who, in turn, stand upon the back of a giant, space-faring turtle.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--MHwhtgYj--%2Fc_fit%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_80%2Cw_636%2F18myou0kz7ujejpg.jpg&hash=ed964dbc97971e670e83dcab81c7d855" rel="cached" data-hash="ed964dbc97971e670e83dcab81c7d855" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--MHwhtgYj--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18myou0kz7ujejpg.jpg)

As far as I see it they're but one American missile strike (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KtPx9ziGLo) from extinction anyway & Vice-Verse --

That video idolizing the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is something people like you can surely be proud of. Indeed some nice publicity for the USA...

According to the latest poll made by our unbiased media, Germans believe that the world is flat, and resting on the backs of four elephants (Republican party of the USA?) who, in turn, stand upon the back of a giant, space-faring turtle.

Odd, I've heard the German translations of the Holy Scripture of the Great A'Tuin are rather bad.

Krake, after that last post you knew this was coming, didn't you?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmjmsprt40.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F08%2Fdemotivational-posters-get-spock-up-here.jpg&hash=32998eaca69a5a0b2a40a0cb1cbcb270" rel="cached" data-hash="32998eaca69a5a0b2a40a0cb1cbcb270" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://mjmsprt40.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/demotivational-posters-get-spock-up-here.jpg)

Merkel tops Putin hot-line call queue (http://www.thelocal.de/20140821/merkel-tops-putin-hot-line-call-queue)

One from KGB, the other from the Stasi...
Sure they have plenty to say to each other.

Usual mental stuff from neo-con Smiley. You lot think you can do anyone in but those days are gone dear fool. When one looks at the mess ups you made in the Balkans, Libya, Iraq, Somalia, South Vietnam and other places you do get a little carried away. As for Crimea that went back to where IT wanted to belong and had been part of. Hhm, I can remember another history item where the great ole US of A removed a popular Kingdom south of it and took it over as a State of the Union. Bu then when the US does it that is okay. Unlike that island Crimeans voted on it. As for taking on Russia that would be more foolhardy than you know sonny. 

On a general note the propagandist being dished out from Kiev and lovingly lapped up by the world imperial dictatorship is sniping at the food convoys as possible delivery of arms. Talk about desperation? no proof The numbers suffering from starvation, loss of homes, power and water along with food are well in excess of 100,000. What does the USA say about that? Not a damn thing and now Germany is loaning Kiev $500 million dollars to help rebuild the East! What a farce in encouraging destruction of the East where the cradle of industry and the economy then borrow to rebuild it. Even Germany has had to press Kiev on the subject of more local rights but so far nothing from the Kiev junta. Throw in that the more that is loaned the less able Ukraine will be to return it having destroyed it's own economy production in the East of the country. The same stupid lot in Kiev still owe Russia millions as well. The Russians were humanely right about helping the starving instead of listening to the lies from the White House and their puppets in Kiev.

You've been too brained by John Wayne and Aide Murphy stuff Smiley and in reality I would not encourage you to go whooping and go, go, go against Russia. Russia will trade with China that the US can do nothing with and much of South America is giving you two fingers as well so good for them too. Even industrialists in Germany think their government is wrong ins sanctions and so do other sensible politicians. Rightacross Europe farmers and others are going ballistic about the money they are losing and maybe lose a trade permanently.

It is not Russia that is making warlike threats but the usual US led cabal and they are being totally stupid so if you go ballistic Smiley I would do it here because you might have to keep some of your money for coffin aid taking on the Russian Federation in real ballistics. Hhhm, maybe, maybe, you should try that and once it is iver and there is no bossy boots America there will actually be fewer wars created. Yeah,,hhhm maybe........  :yes:

Rj, face it. Your love affair with Vlad Putin is unrequited. He doesn't even know who you are. Pick up the pieces of your life and move on.

Well an awful lot of people in the world don't know much directly about your two-faced country but they get effected by it. Either by not accepting you so get threatened and worse. You cause more wars than Russia does and Putin has danced circles round you which frustrates because Putin's Russia is too big for you to coerce or do down. So do try to move on yourself as you have worse problems. Military budget, warmongering, tens of millions of poor,  political system that is not working and run by the money barons.You bleat across the world tt92 as a country while at home poverty, crime, misuse of the Constitution, people having to even fight for decency and those rights on paper get  done. Haha, you are an unconscious comedian my debater!  It makes a nice change for a country not to just accept your dominance which has damaged so much of the planet. And Putin is not alone and does well with China and South American which only adds to the chagrin against him.

So I am just as entitled to support who I damn well like whether some ex-colonist in a country that is a mess internally. This is an international forum although in most forums even in my hobby interests the Yanks come on as if they are the only people in the world. It is sad therefore that if you are a bright man you have been drawn into that corner! Finally, if America doesn't like some place or some leader then you know he is worth a space and Putin is doing well in his.  :yes:  :sing:

Wipe that foam off the corner of your mouth.

You always come up with nonsense  because you are lost and unable to take it. It is kind of standard practice for those who are not clever enough to deal with a matter. Your country as a political place is a damn disaster. The Hill has thousands of lobby fanatics controlling your system which is heavily weighted by multi-millionaires on the Hill anyway. You are incapable of sorting the trillions in debt problem. So insecure you must have military bases all over the world (even though you cannot afford them). Mind you it keeps a lot of those from the lower rungs of society in a job. And get sulky if there are places that don't admire you in view of the massive hypocrisy not only in world policy and control but internally.  Oh and throw in the pawnbroker situation where you owe so much to your enemy - Communist China of all places! Ha, ha, brilliant! Your country has long supported dictatorships and is still doing it today as we debate and you have the nerve to moan at me respecting Putin? Ha ha, brilliant again.

I will admit this - I would compliment you on being consistent even if a child mind set! It would take more than a smug ex-colonist to make me foam indeed I would admit it happens but only when I drink my favourite soft drink (often mentioned in forums), Irn Bru. Thanks for the unintended laugh and I do trust when older the grey cells will mushroom more helpfully.  :P  :yes: !

Howie, the Brits lost in 1783 and we held them off again in the War of 1812. Between then and now, Britain lost its empire. And most of Ireland broke free of British rule :yes:. That's what this is really about, isn't it? The tide of history washes in and out. Nations rise and fall. The US is subject to the same forces of history. There's no need to hate America forever for it. There's even less need to turn to Putin, the ex-Soviet KGB spymaster, a man that can't trusted as far as you can throw him with the power of your mind alone just because he reminds of the old Russian Czars or something.

Howie, the Brits lost in 1783 and we held them off again in the War of 1812. Between then and now, Britain lost its empire. And most of Ireland broke free of British rule :yes:. That's what this is really about, isn't it? The tide of history washes in and out. Nations rise and fall. The US is subject to the same forces of history. There's no need to hate America forever for it. There's even less need to turn to Putin, the ex-Soviet KGB spymaster, a man that can't trusted as far as you can throw him with the power of your mind alone just because he reminds of the old Russian Czars or something.

/Inb4 Mr. Howie blathers on about "But the Empire transformed into the Commonwealth", and "Rabble rabble, 'Murica international affairs/bankers, the Jewish lobby, rabble rabble"

In other words,

 :lol:

Trouble is that you lot do not like to have your arrogant stance in the world channelled hence the avoiding by avoiding things. Your country is saddled with tens of millions of poor, a million losing homes every year, overflowing jails, inbuilt racism against blacks, an equally arroant police force modelled on the brownshirts of the Reich, Throw in a legislature dominated by millionaires an over the top and not needed military expense, trillions in debt and a republic rather than a democracy.

Yes, I do smile at the guff you and  tt92 float about because you were educated in a country where the education system is having problems so i don't want to detract from you too much. After all living in a land of nutjobs it is s easy to morph into one there. Justas well you have a big mental health system making pots of money out of the poor unfortuantes many of who started like yourselves. Oh, so sad........ :sing:

[glow=black,2,300]Putin looks magnificent in Blood Red![/glow]

[glow=black,2,300]Putin looks magnificent in Blood Red![/glow]

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbOBsloQ.png&hash=3bff6b981502279573ad9740084dc383" rel="cached" data-hash="3bff6b981502279573ad9740084dc383" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/bOBsloQ.png)

Leme remind you:
1. The only 'clear' evidences that Putin is to blame for the downed M17 are such tasteful propaganda cartoons.
2. Apart from that, compared to the master of drones (http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2014/01/23/more-than-2400-dead-as-obamas-drone-campaign-marks-five-years/), Putin looks like an innocent child.
If we take also into consideration the blood Obama's antecessor has on his hands then Putin must be considered an angel.

SmileyFaze you do sensible fellow countrymen no favours with your daft neo-con brain dead stuff. Considering all the wars your nation has created, people bloodied, you do have some nerve. I am grateful to know that you do not reflect all of them but only the gung ho and red neck mentality that makes many of your countrymen  shake their heads. Like those arrogant women who dish out that stuff at the White House press meetings you don't live in the real world. For me on my two visits over there years ago, Imet many sensible people and thank goodnes your lot were somewhere else.  Now you think you can beat an investigation without any information of sense?  :faint:

Trouble is that you lot do not like to have your arrogant stance in the world channelled hence the avoiding by avoiding things. Your country is saddled with tens of millions of poor, a million losing homes every year, overflowing jails, inbuilt racism against blacks, an equally arroant police force modelled on the brownshirts of the Reich, Throw in a legislature dominated by millionaires an over the top and not needed military expense, trillions in debt and a republic rather than a democracy.

Yes, I do smile at the guff you and  tt92 float about because you were educated in a country where the education system is having problems so i don't want to detract from you too much. After all living in a land of nutjobs it is s easy to morph into one there. Justas well you have a big mental health system making pots of money out of the poor unfortuantes many of who started like yourselves. Oh, so sad........ :sing:

I love the thought of rj talking about education."Fifth grade: the best three years of his life!"

Still incapable of debate. Instead you try to be funny due to being incapable. Considering the state American education is in and the government is worried you had better sort out the land of nutjobs before pointing elsewhere. People that keep falling back on facing anything they cannot contest will fall into trying to be funny in the hope someone will join them and think that is justification.

Nice try though just a pity you fall into the knuckle-dragging corner instead. Considering the mes you lot have made in the world to please your corporate rulers, Russia/Putin  looks like an angel. It's a wonder what passes as a legislature is not centred in Hollywood. One thing I will accord to you is you do well for what we would call a Primary School pupil (Elementary over there?) so congratulations.  :up:

Considering the state American education is in and the government is worried you had better sort out the land of nutjobs before pointing elsewhere.

American scores in Geography tests have little do with knowing evil when they see it.

[glow=black,2,300]Putin looks magnificent in Blood Red![/glow]

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbOBsloQ.png&hash=3bff6b981502279573ad9740084dc383" rel="cached" data-hash="3bff6b981502279573ad9740084dc383" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/bOBsloQ.png)

But now how's Vlad gonna get that blood out of his suit in time for the wedding ceremony to Howie?  Oxiclean might work on the white shirt, but is liable to discolor the black jacket. :(

Oxiclean might work on the white shirt, but is liable to discolor the black jacket. :(

While Oxiclean might work, Oxymorons will continue posting that cartoon in absence of better arguments.

Well you have just made an ass of yourself with that comment Sanguinemoon. Especially when you consider some of the evil being done to your own people by an arrogant government spying on you and contradicting what the country is meant to stand for. You are so, so, naive it is at the point of ludicrous. You are becoming the Senator McCain of the Forum

Especially when you consider some of the evil being done to your own people by an arrogant government spying on you and contradicting what the country is meant to stand for.

I assure you that I have plenty of criticism for our government about that. Just make sure you're not so anti-American that you overlook your own government's spying.

Especially when you consider some of the evil being done to your own people by an arrogant government spying on you........

Ain't that so cute ---- now the caldron is calling the kettle black!  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/taunt.gif)

There isn't a country on the planet (if there is one I'm sure you will be happy to point that out, in detail, & with supporting documentation as you always do (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/lol00100.gif)) there isn't a country on the planet that doesn't "spy" on it's citizens & others within it's own borders. The 'evil' you speak of, the 'spying' in America on Americans by it's government,  is only made available to the world media because it's taking place in a free & open society, & not in some arrogant country which limits the scope of free speech & transparency to it's own citizens, & also harshly limits reporting of such issues -- if permitting reports at all.

So, feel free to draw your own meaninglessly unique, self-important, anti-American conclusions as you always do. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cleanteeth09.gif)   

We already know what all counties do but the top of the pile is the panicky and security over the top US of A. Millions of your own folk spied on re their phones, computer contacts and everything in between.For a country that sneers at Russia you should look at your own idea of "democracy" first as it leaves a lot to be desired.

Ain't that so cute ---- now the caldron is calling the kettle black!

Isn't he just adorable? :love: I remember even years before this NSA scandals emerged the epic surveillance in the UK

Millions of your own folk spied on re their phones, computer contacts and everything in between

Better check to see what your own government is doing. For the respective sizes of the countries, yours is most likely doing it worse.

Better check to see what your own government is doing. For the respective sizes of the countries, yours is most likely doing it worse.

Nope - we do it better !   :angel: :D

You really do border on the verge of silliness sometimes Sanguinemoon. We know every country does spying but to say that our lot are worse than yours is so utterly laughable. No-one has as many spy organisations as you nor spends so much public proportionally as you. Goodness, manage you going away from your country being No 1 in everything! You have more internal spying lots than Nazi Germany had or the old USSR (oh, and the USSR is gone just in case you didn't know). Indeed it was completely laughable that a year or so ago the poor old USA was complaining  to China that it was spying via the Internet on them from a military high rise. How imbecilic that one is as you are doing th exact same thing. I doubt if any country can beat you on this one so happy to concede that No 1.  All in the nature of "defence, or "security" or "American interests."

It took your country an awful long time to get where it presently is but Russia is doing it quicker in all spheres. For all the guff you lot dish out at Russia you only avoid any close looks at your own failings on democracy the rights of people and the way they are treated. A so-called democracy that runs a million strong military it cannot afford to control the world in it's image, ruled by Wall Street, tens of millions of poor locally and rights being misused you lot have a nerve to talk about Putin.  The popularity of Putin compared to your own president is something else for a republic that always bums about itself. I can give you one assurance and that is sanctions and stupidity will not take Russia out of the global situation indeed far from it.

The popularity of Putin

... will be even bigger when he gets the entire Ukraine under the passivity of Europe and USA.
Novorussya isn't it?

And Ukraine thinks that is the way to go. Considering their attitude during WW2 they have been still stuck in the nationalist past of yesteryear. The mess your land is in could do with someone better than it has.

I just heard about this graphic on a radio show.
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-01-28/hello-putin-flying-bear-swept-internet (http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-01-28/hello-putin-flying-bear-swept-internet)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8cGHbLCIAABtyQ.jpg:large)

Well done there. A brilliant picture of a real man and a pity the ex-colonies cannot produce anything but would-be world dictators. With 80% of his country behind him Yanks can only fall back on this stuff and what they are brained into so well done boy!

 ???

I think Donetsk will be the turning point in his ambition(s).
Annex it and he leaves no doubt,....

No doubt to whom? Is there anyone doing anything about the annexation of Crimea?

Would you call the staged putch in Kiev 'nothing'?
As for all those who are really concerned about the Ukrainian people - how about transfering 10% of your income to Kiev?
The (failed) state is already bankrupt.
Besides, Mr Poroshenko will have to build a huge fence around the territories he still has under control so young people, liable to military service can't flee.

Colonel rebel like the average US brained guffs this nonsense of Russia absorbing the 2 eastern provinces. That he hasrepeatedly and in public  said he does not want them makes no difference to the closed mindset. Now how many times have we also been dished out the news of the dozens of Russian tanks across the country and all the troops. Just the other day the commander of the Ukrainian Army has backed away from this Kiev rubbish because it cannot be substantiated and he is bright enough to know that.  That the Ukrainian National Guard has a lot of the Right Sector Nazis on board is of course neatly avoided and I watched a tv news item with young me from the West of Ukraine (note West!) saying they objected to being in the army fighting for what. Hhhm, interesting one that.

A week or two ago the Ukrainian Army mounted a large attack on the rebels which was quite different from the breaks in the cease fire. However our news in the West will intimate the occasional Ukrainian soldiers killed as a balanced report? In the same report hospitals which are not involved in the civil war are now suffering. Kiev has suspended the salaries of doctors and nurses and medical with supplies about to run out. Why are they doing that?  A million Ukrainians have fled into the Russian Federation for safety. Ordinary people not fighters and that gives a strain on Russia having to provide shelter and help at great cost. If this was Africa we would get help flowing in and a lot of damn hype.

That Kiev cuts off medical staff tending to civilians is a disgrace and simply ignored by the West. Neo-Nazi government ministers, wanting monuments to the Kiev Nazi leader during WW2 and getting support from the Right Sector is all very principled, eh? There are two very prominent matters in Ukraine that needed to be remembered. The West side actively supported the Nazis in WW2 and the East did not and much of that attitude still lives on.  When that coup overturned a democratic election Kiev did not include the East because they knew that part of the country would be against the illegality. Then they made a point of stopping Russian as a national language so they created this disaster not Putin not Russia. Indeed Putin was very correct about saying that if Kiev had went for a federal system there would have been no such trouble as now so what was wrong with that? When you also consider that the East provides much of the economy you would have though that sense would come in Kiev but it hasn't. The Prime Minister is an arrogant and despicable oaf too.

So there you are a federal thing would have avoided all this trouble that Kiev made so maybe the West should ask why this was not considered instead of using anything to have a go at Russia because America and the West cannot dominate it.

Colonel rebel like the average US brained guffs this nonsense of Russia absorbing the 2 eastern provinces. That he hasrepeatedly and in public  said he does not want them makes no difference to the closed mindset.

It might be true that he don't want them as part of the RF but he wouldn't mind if they would become autonomous regions.

And in America the great democracy and temple of rights? All phone calls, texts, bill paying, emails, etc all open to spying on by a list of spy agencies at home (more than any other nation) of which the NSA is the worst. Probably the most expensive, dangerous and uncontrolled and no-one can equal this American interference in the privates lives of EVERYONE.I would sum it up as.....worrying.




on their own people. I would sum it up by saying.....worrying.

Talking about "worrying"
Russia's next-generation military - in 90 seconds (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31167173)

Note what it says in the 89th second

Didn't the Soviet Union at least partially implode from spending far too much of its money on the military instead of civil stuff?

I would sum it up as.....worrying.

You worry to much about us. Take a nap, then have an Irn Bru.

I would sum it up by saying.....worrying.

You are correct. It is worrying that Putin seems intent on unveiling USSR 2.0. That is what you meant, right?

No! He's a Putin fanboy.

I think RJH expects Putin to bring back the Romanov dynasty-- or a reasonable facsimile thereof. I have a suspicion there won't be anymore tsars in Russia though. What does come down is a bit of a mystery, but a return to tsarist Russia probably ain't it.

It apparently never occurred to him that some of revolution was pretty well inevitable to tsarist Russia due to the combined incompetence and tyranny of the tsars.

Of course, you can read about NIcholas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_II_of_Russia) in the quick go-to source.

Nicholas II ruled from 1 November 1894 until his forced abdication on 15 March 1917.[4] His reign saw Imperial Russia go from being one of the foremost great powers of the world to economic and military collapse. Political enemies nicknamed him Nicholas the Bloody because of the Khodynka Tragedy, alleged anti-Semitic pogroms, Bloody Sunday, his violent suppression of the 1905 Revolution, his execution of political opponents, and his pursuit of military campaigns on an unprecedented scale.[5][6]

Under his rule, Russia was humiliatingly defeated in the Russo-Japanese War, which saw the almost total annihilation of the Russian Baltic Fleet at the Battle of Tsushima. The Anglo-Russian Entente, designed to counter German attempts to gain influence in the Middle East, ended the Great Game between Russia and the United Kingdom. As head of state, Nicholas approved the Russian mobilisation of August 1914, which marked the beginning of Russia's involvement in the First World War, a war in which 3.3 million Russians were killed.[7] The Imperial Army's severe losses and the High Command's incompetent handling of the war, along with other policies directed by Nicholas during his reign, are often cited as the leading causes of the fall of the Romanov dynasty.

Yup, that really sounds like the type of leadership to wax romantic over. The only remaining question is what kind of hallucinogens was the  Russian Orthodox Church on when they canonized him as a saint.

The only remaining question is what kind of hallucinogens was the  Russian Orthodox Church on when they canonized him as a saint.

Because those godless commies got him.
The way things were going someone would have got him sooner or later, it's not like they were the only ones trying to get rid of him.

Yes Imperial Rssia did get slapped in it's war with Japan and what a disaster Sanguinemoon. May I also remind you dear red neck that your wonderful big military machine and country got humiiated and beaten in South Vietnam/ Soldiers who wounded themselves  and were undisicpined, on drugs, etc? Soodon't take the moral ground when you are not justified. Yeah I would like to have seen a Monarchy back in Russia but it won't happen as too long a gap. At the same time back on the Opera Forums I have a link to a Us historian whwhich showed that the US President before WW1 actually complimented the Russian Emperor Nicholas 2nd for the changes and improvements taking place. In law the Bar was totally independent og government and often annoyed the government in some of the court decisions. The secret police was tiny which surprised the Provisonal Government in 1018 and in fact it couldn't come and arrest you willy-nilly. They had to get a warrant from the ordinary police via the Governor and you were entitled to legal representation. Farm and heavy industry production was up, gradually wider franchise and what goes with it. Nicholas was not that keen on being Tsar but had no choice. So a US Prsident patting a Tsar> Nice one!

When you consider the formation and growth of the US and all the terrible stuff that happened that totally contravened that "Constitution" again the moral high ground is not an option.Russi is quite entitled to extending it's defence if it wants and what a load of codswallop from Yanks who think they have a damn right to control and rule the world. Over 400 bases and more, intimidating places that don't follow your political ground or commerce, make excuses to invade and thing you have some Godly right to militarily and politically rule the world?

Now 8 new NATO bases as close to Russia as can get them involving a situation that has damn nothing to do with America nor NATO. You folk are so big-headed, full of yourselves and some mistaken belief you are principled and moral. Politically and militarily you are children. Oh and jimbro dancer. The day the country stops being imperial in these modern days and stops marching the world creating wars I will stop drinking Irn Bru and might stretch to a shandy. Tsar Vladimir 1st? Yeah great ring to it - bring it on even if it makes the Chicagoan neo-con sill his beer! Good that Russia is re-asserting itslef and Cold War brained Americans who are miffed they have competition!  :lol: :up:

ps Whilst diung this I am playing a CD from the St Petersburg Naval Academy Band which includes all the marches of the former Imperial Tsarist Guard Regiments.

What's Putin up to now! Sinkholes, that's what.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--vH_hcXUG--%2F17jht5tmgqmqtjpg.jpg&hash=8b725d74e13ad657684b3f809734a0ed" rel="cached" data-hash="8b725d74e13ad657684b3f809734a0ed" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--vH_hcXUG--/17jht5tmgqmqtjpg.jpg)

I wonder what kind of hallucinogens our friend from Glasgow is on. That must be some really potent stuff!

Nicholas II didn't cut such a fine figure, he couldn't grasp that the world was changing and that autocratic rule was becoming a thing of the past-- even if he had been a competent ruler, which apparently he wasn't. Getting involved with Rasputin made things infinitely worse, too.

What's Putin up to now! Sinkholes, that's what.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--vH_hcXUG--%2F17jht5tmgqmqtjpg.jpg&hash=8b725d74e13ad657684b3f809734a0ed" rel="cached" data-hash="8b725d74e13ad657684b3f809734a0ed" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--vH_hcXUG--/17jht5tmgqmqtjpg.jpg)

:sing: Ain't no place like a hole in the ground, a hole in the ground, a hole in the ground.  :sing:

:sing:  Ain't no place like a hole in the ground, a hole in the ground, a hole in the ground.   :sing:

:sing: I have a house in old Glasgow, old Glasgow, old Glasgow!  :sing:

This guy says Russia would've been pretty similar with or without Putin: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/nice-putin-russia-115431.html

We keep hearing that with the invasion of Crimea, Russia has upset the stable post-Cold War order.

However, I have no idea who this "we" is. I haven't heard such a thing on NPR or any European media.

What's Putin up to now! Sinkholes, that's what.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--vH_hcXUG--%2F17jht5tmgqmqtjpg.jpg&hash=8b725d74e13ad657684b3f809734a0ed" rel="cached" data-hash="8b725d74e13ad657684b3f809734a0ed" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--vH_hcXUG--/17jht5tmgqmqtjpg.jpg)

http://media.smh.com.au/video-news/video-world-news/seoul-sinkhole-swallows-two-6294768.html

This guy says Russia would've been pretty similar with or without Putin: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/nice-putin-russia-115431.html

At least with this single sentence of his, I agree. Most of the rest of his saying is viewed through US made glasses...

With G.W. Bush or B. Obama as President, the USA is pretty similar as well. So it will be similar irrespective of whoever will replace B. Obama.
Geostrategic ambitions and interests of a sovereign state don't change with the President.

BTW, US military parade in its new backyard - a few hundred meters away from the Russian border.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn4.spiegel.de%2Fimages%2Fimage-815843-galleryV9-jqip.jpg&hash=dddc4b2b7bd5b209cc7003346c6c2b71" rel="cached" data-hash="dddc4b2b7bd5b209cc7003346c6c2b71" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-815843-galleryV9-jqip.jpg)

What's Putin up to now! Sinkholes, that's what.

That could also serve as an illustration of Russia's economy :yes:

Quote from: Frenzie on 2015-02-24, 21:50:33

This guy says Russia would've been pretty similar with or without Putin: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/nice-putin-russia-115431.html

At least with this single sentence of his, I agree. Most of the rest of his saying is viewed through US made glasses...

With G.W. Bush or B. Obama as President, the USA is pretty similar as well. So it will be similar irrespective of whoever will replace B. Obama.
Geostrategic ambitions and interests of a sovereign state don't change with the President.

BTW, US military parade in its new backyard - a few hundred meters away from the Russian border.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn4.spiegel.de%2Fimages%2Fimage-815843-galleryV9-jqip.jpg&hash=dddc4b2b7bd5b209cc7003346c6c2b71" rel="cached" data-hash="dddc4b2b7bd5b209cc7003346c6c2b71" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-815843-galleryV9-jqip.jpg)

Where?

Narva/Estonia, about 300 meters from the Russian border away.

BTW, US military parade in its new backyard - a few hundred meters away from the Russian border.

Dumbest damned stunt in a long while.

Small video here..
http://rt.com/news/235311-estonia-border-military-parade/

How sad and utterly pointless. The Baltic States are being used as an excuse for military creeping going on and when one considers that Latvia says it doesn't see a problem makes it all even more sad and wrong.

Quote from: krake on 2015-02-25, 04:44:10

BTW, US military parade in its new backyard - a few hundred meters away from the Russian border.

Dumbest damned stunt in a long while.

Small video here..
http://rt.com/news/235311-estonia-border-military-parade/

Any mention of a contingent from North Korea?

Any mention of a contingent from North Korea?

You made that up, didn't you? There's no such place. Dennis Rodman made it up.
And the guy on the right is a plastic dummy.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.guim.co.uk%2Fstatic%2Fw-460%2Fh--%2Fq-95%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FAbout%2FGeneral%2F2013%2F9%2F8%2F1378661763251%2FDennis-Rodman-and-Kim-Jon-010.jpg&hash=6022b4e4a14b364a72a86957cb5c48cb" rel="cached" data-hash="6022b4e4a14b364a72a86957cb5c48cb" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-460/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2013/9/8/1378661763251/Dennis-Rodman-and-Kim-Jon-010.jpg)

BTW, US military parade in its new backyard - a few hundred meters away from the Russian border.

That's why Estonia joined NATO in the first place.

Another foreign nation, the Netherlands, provided four Swedish-made Stridsfordon 90 tracked combat vehicles (designated CV9035NL Mk III by the Dutch).

Pity we sold our tanks to Saudi Arabia. Anyway, so it was an Estonian parade in which a number of US and a smaller number of Dutch troops participated. Hardly a "US military parade".

Quote from: tt92 on 2015-02-25, 16:48:50

Any mention of a contingent from North Korea?

You made that up, didn't you? There's no such place. Dennis Rodman made it up.
And the guy on the right is a plastic dummy.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.guim.co.uk%2Fstatic%2Fw-460%2Fh--%2Fq-95%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FAbout%2FGeneral%2F2013%2F9%2F8%2F1378661763251%2FDennis-Rodman-and-Kim-Jon-010.jpg&hash=6022b4e4a14b364a72a86957cb5c48cb" rel="cached" data-hash="6022b4e4a14b364a72a86957cb5c48cb" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-460/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2013/9/8/1378661763251/Dennis-Rodman-and-Kim-Jon-010.jpg)

Who is Dennis Rodman?
A sort of Toady-for-hire?

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Boris Nemtsov, a Russian opposition politician and former deputy prime minister who was an outspoken critic of President Vladimir Putin, was shot dead meters from the Kremlin in central Moscow late on Friday.

Nemtsov, 55, was shot four times in the back, the Interior Ministry said. A police spokeswoman on the scene said he had been walking on a bridge over the Moskva River with a Ukrainian woman.

Putin condemned the killing and took the investigation under presidential command, saying it could have been a contract killing and a "provocation" on the eve of a big opposition protest that Nemtsov had been due to lead in Moscow on Sunday.

Police cars sealed off the bridge close to the red walls of the Kremlin and Red Square, and an ambulance was on the scene.

"Nemtsov B.E. died at 2340 hours as a result of four shots in the back," an Interior Ministry spokeswoman said by telephone.

A police spokesman on the scene said Nemtsov had been shot at from a passing white car that fled the scene. The woman was being interviewed by police.

Mikhail Kasyanov, a fellow opposition leader, told reporters at the bridge: "That a leader of the opposition could be shot beside the walls of the Kremlin is beyond imagination. There can be only one version: that he was shot for telling the truth."

Kasyanov, a former prime minister under Putin, called Nemtsov a "fighter for the truth".

OPPOSITION TO WAR IN UKRAINE

Nemtsov had been quoted as saying he was concerned that the president might want him dead over his opposition to the conflict in Ukraine. Sunday's opposition march is intended as a protest against the war in east Ukraine, where pro-Russian rebels have seized a swathe of territory.

Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told Russian news agencies that the president had expressed his condolences and ordered the security agencies to investigate. He said Putin had called it a "brutal murder".

Another opposition figure, Ksenia Sobchak, said Nemtsov had been preparing a report on the presence of Russian troops in Ukraine. The Kremlin strongly denies allegations by Kiev and Western capitals that it has sent troops and advanced weaponry to back the rebels.

Peskov said Putin had called it a "brutal murder".

Like other opposition leaders, Nemtsov was a fighter against corruption. In other reports, he condemned massive overspending on the Sochi Winter Olympics by the Russian authorities and listed the many state buildings, helicopters and planes that Putin has at his disposal.

Nemtsov was also one of the leaders of mass rallies in the winter of 2011-12 that became the biggest protests against Putin since the former KGB spy rose to power in 2000.

Nemtsov briefly served as a deputy prime minister under president Boris Yeltsin in the late 1990s, when he gained a reputation as a leading liberal reformer.

Nice shot Vlad! (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FKyapDYu.png&hash=feb6af59c2ef482fa96049357ff658f5" rel="cached" data-hash="feb6af59c2ef482fa96049357ff658f5" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/KyapDYu.png)

What do you think?

Usual American led empty head stuff.

We don't know who killed the man and too short a time to go mouthing on something you and others know little about and just grow up with a Fox News mentality. Let me remind you and others that the man concerned although did not deserve to be killed at the 2003 General election his party got no MP's. He represents only 1% of Russia but the way the stupid West media acts you would think somehow he was higher up the scale but he is not. You lot over in nutjob land had had assassinations so hardly able to be principled so we are getting the usual anto-Russian thing on a minor politician. Those who say his problem has went with history may have a point. When in authority in the earlier days from the collapse of the USSR there was a thought that everything would be sweet and lightness but when that did not happen Russia having a long history of conservatism went in a different direction.

Yes he was an opposition leader but he had no equality politically or anything else  and a minor player. Russians in the vast majority were not voting nor supporting him so get the picture right.

Yes he was an opposition leader but he had no equality politically or anything else  and a minor player.

Is that right, oh Glaswegian that doesn't know how to use commas? The fact is he made powerful enemies within the Kremlin's inner circle for his campaign against corruption and Russia's actions in Ukraine. Maybe Putin himself didn't order the assassination,  but somebody in the Kremlin did.

What do you think?

And he did while hunting shirtless in the scrub brush? At least he must have gotten scratched and cut up by the branches and thorns.

What do I think?
I think Putin's henchmen murdered the poor bastard, that's what I think.

I had a teacher at school who often told us his favorite saying: Glauben heisst nichts wissen, nichts wissen heisst dumm sein.
I'll try to translate:
To believe means not to know and not to know means to be stupid.

What does that say about people that believe Prevaricater Putin?

Well what utter bunk and silliness from Sanguinemoon and jimbro. All of a sidden withinn 48 hours they know who did it. No what they do know is that thew meida and Western political leaders are propagating their brains. They are quick enough to berate me but now they have mental telepathy and jump to conclusions. America has had a list of assassinations from those against a laderr or policy from Presidents to Malcom X of all people-

Now i could stretch to seeing a degree of acceptance if this \Russian was an equal to Putin but he WASN'T an never was. You lot of closed mindsets totally ignore the matter of a 1% poll rating in Russia and that at a General Election didn't even get seats. That doesn't count as long as the person concerned is anti-Putin. He was a minor figure and we do not know whether the killing was a business, political or whatever reason so maybe you should keep your instant brain ignorance until something more comes out of this. I can just see you too sitting nodding in agreement with anything that hints at putin because it fits in with a rather limited and intelligent view.

There is aow a reward out even though he was a minor figure and I will wait using a bit more sense. Obama going on about how the man was fighting corruption - what a good one that is as he could have been just as busy in America. Obama also like Cameron came out with the stuff about having a clear and proper investigation. This forum corner lacks common sense and rushes into the mindset of the well trained anti-Russian media hyped up by Western political leaders. And no I don't think Putin had anything to dow tih it because the opposition man was essentially a nobody and Cameron came out with a bare faced lie about how the dead man was highly rtegarded in Gt Britain. That was utterly made up as we hardly ever heard of the bloke and it all fits in with a less than subtle kick at putin. The killing was at the Kremlin the most highly secure place in the city and leaves the matter wide open to anyone who objected to the pro-Ukraine stance in a Russia that predominantly does NOT go along with that. An "official killing" is something to do outside the Kremlin?

The man was trying to relive a history that was gone when the West increasingly digged at the new Russia and was an outdated opposition argument. Believing that  government was going to go do the killing for a man of little support is part of the mindset of those brought up during the cold war and led by American curtailed thinking. It may practically be hadrto get the shooter but I hope they do for the family's sake and for the egg you two will ingnore running down your two faces.

Let the protests begin! :yes:

Russians march in memory of murdered Putin critic (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russians-march-in-memory-of-murdered-putin-critic/ar-BBi5Inp?ocid=ansnewsreu11)

(Reuters) - Tens of thousands of Russians marched through central Moscow on Sunday, carrying banners declaring "I am not afraid" and chanting "Russia without Putin" in memory of murdered Kremlin critic Boris Nemtsov.

Families, the old and young walked slowly, with many holding portraits of the opposition politician and former deputy prime minister who was shot dead while walking home from a nearby restaurant on Friday night.

....

"(Nemtsov) was harmful to the authorities, but the authorities themselves are criminal. The authorities have trampled on all international rights, seized Crimea, started war with Ukraine," said Yuri Voinov, an elderly physicist.

Get it yet, Howie? Even intelligent Russians know this.

Putin has vowed to pursue those who killed Nemtsov, calling the murder a "provocation".

National investigators who answer to the Russian leader offered a 3-million-rouble reward, around $50,000, for information on Nemtsov's death. They say they are pursuing several lines of inquiry, including the possibility that Nemtsov, a Jew, was killed by radical Islamists or that the opposition killed him to blacken Putin's name.

Nemtsov's funeral is due to be held on Tuesday in Moscow.

Putin's opponents say such suggestions, repeated over pro-Kremlin media, show the cynicism of Russia's leaders as they whip up nationalism, hatred and anti-Western hysteria to rally support for his policies on Ukraine and deflect blame for an economic crisis.

"We are told on TV that a conspiracy by the West and those among us who have sold out to them are behind our poverty. People should throw away the TV set and go to protest," said Olga, 42, who declined to give her last name.

I'm sure they'll find a scapegoat for the Kremlin's actions. :yes: :p

Many opposition leaders have been jailed on what they say are trumped-up charges, or have fled the country.

Nemtsov, a fighter against corruption who said he feared Putin may want him dead, had hoped to start the opposition's revival with a march he had been planning for Sunday against Putin's economic policies and Russia's role in east Ukraine.

The Kremlin denies sending arms or troops to Ukraine.

In a change of plan, the opposition said Moscow city authorities had allowed a march of up to 50,000 people alongside the River Moskva to commemorate Nemtsov's death.

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said Nemtsov had told him about two weeks ago that he planned to publish evidence of Russian involvement in Ukraine's separatist conflict.

You are another in cloud-cuckoo land San. The man was never a threat to Putin. He was nowhere near the 80% poll rating of the President. The average Joe in the West would have no idea who the bloke was at all.  He couldn't even reach the rating of your President on a strained 40% (!) You suitably ignore these things and that the government is not going to shoot someone outside the Kremlin but then Americans have an inbuilt emotion that is easily stolen by propagandist stuff. The blood is hardly dried and true to form out come the usual minds of the controlled brains. Throwing in the Kiev President as a support is head shaking as he is good as a liar and under your control. And no less a person than the Foreign Secretary of Germany (an ally in case you were unaware) has now said that there should be no jumping to instant conclusions without facts and proper results. That too will be ignored of course so that the assault on Russia because it cannot be controlled by US corporates money barons will continue.

I don't see you mindless ex-colonists unable to think for yourselves condemning your bosom pals in Saudi Arabia for what goes on there but money and a base makes a big difference. There were also some odd matters of the assassination of Kennedy ignored by the "Commission" and although i am not a follower of all sorts of mad theories there were oddities. But hey that doesn't count! For all we know it could have been a Ukrainian killer after all we are just getting instant wide assertions here on no grounds whatsover.

Shame the man was killed but he was a tiny minority leader and nowhere near a threat to Putin whatsoever but sense and appraisal means nothing to the educating of ex-colonists so easily into Cold War propagandist leanings. If you face the facts rather than being brained you would get more respect.

Putin's poll numbers come  from an outfit called the Levada Center, generally a respected agency. However:

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-levada-center-foreign-agent/24992729.html

Prosecutors this week officially warned the polling agency that it is in breach of legislation requiring politically engaged NGOs that receive foreign funding to register as "foreign agents." The center acknowledges that a small portion of its budget comes from foreign sources. Prosecutors allege that its research constitutes "political activity." Fortunately the American Constitution protects against such abuses.

The warning comes shortly after the Levada Center released polls showing President Vladimir Putin’s popularity falling, sparking allegations that the prosecutor's move was politically motivated.

The Levada Center's director, Lev Gudkov, told RFE/RL's Russian Service that the move threatens the pollster's continued existence.

Note that the article was written in 2013. After that Putin mysteriously became more popular, even as the currency falls and the economy tanks conditions that would earn an American president an approval rating in 30's. Get it, Howie? The American equivalent would be the Obama administration finding an excuse to threaten Gallup's very existence after poor polling numbers, and than suddenly he has an approval rating in the 60's, Not the least bit suspect, is it?  Fortunately, the American Constitution protects against such abuses

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smh.com.au%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fimages%2F1%2F3%2Ft%2Fg%2F0%2Fb%2Fimage.gallery.galleryLandscape.600x400.fdxk.png%2F1425340382779.jpg&hash=5ba0ebf4f64d2d1a9f659c4ac8f26875" rel="cached" data-hash="5ba0ebf4f64d2d1a9f659c4ac8f26875" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/1/3/t/g/0/b/image.gallery.galleryLandscape.600x400.fdxk.png/1425340382779.jpg)

I get it, all too clear. Something "happens" to the most likely man to replace Putin in the next vote, he gets offed--- Putin or his goons are the most likely source of the outrage. This will never do of course, so RJHowie sides with his hero to try to save the day.

Now, imagine for a moment that we change things up a bit. Elections are coming in the United States. The sitting president is up for re-election but his numbers are not by any means certain-- he gets the idea--- and carries it out-- of murdering his likely replacement. Would Howie defend the sitting US president?

You know he wouldn't. Party affiliation of the president and his now-deceased opponent wouldn't matter, RJ would be calling for the US to burn the criminal at the stake. Probably laughing at us and our silly pretensions at self-government all the way.

(For the record: I know that Obama is not up for re-election. He's had his two terms. The above was for example only at this time.)

Now, imagine for a moment that we change things up a bit. Elections are coming in the United States. The sitting president is up for re-election but his numbers are not by any means certain-- he gets the idea--- and carries it out-- of murdering his likely replacement. Would Howie defend the sitting US president?
...
(For the record: I know that Obama is not up for re-election. He's had his two terms. The above was for example only at this time.)

There are plenty of lunatics who keep saying he'll do something like that in order to stay in power for years now.

Putin said he didn't do it.
Isn't that enough ?
It was done with a gun.
Obviously it was done by an American.

One should react to these things in a civilised way.

One could go to Nemtsov's funeral and pay dignified last respects, in keeping with the deep sorrow of His Utter Magnificence.

Ooops - it seems that is not an option (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31704254)

Putin said he didn't do it.
Isn't that enough ?
It was done with a gun.
Obviously it was done by an American.

A drive-by shooting done by a Chicago street-gang? Sorry, Chicago gangs aren't that good. They're good at killing all right, but hitting their intended target and no one else in a drive by? Nope, they're not that good. This was a high-level assassination, done by professionals.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.americanthinker.com%2Flegacy_assets%2Farticles%2Fassets%2FPutin%2520%252B%2520gun.png&hash=5d0a084dbae3a8e18e18f58588e1cdcf" rel="cached" data-hash="5d0a084dbae3a8e18e18f58588e1cdcf" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.americanthinker.com/legacy_assets/articles/assets/Putin%20%2B%20gun.png)

@Jimbro3738

Seems to be a pretty harmless weapon compared to the drones your dear leader is using. :)

A drive-by shooting done by a Chicago street-gang? Sorry, Chicago gangs aren't that good. They're good at killing all right, but hitting their intended target and no one else in a drive by? Nope, they're not that good. This was a high-level assassination, done by professionals.

One should read with some sane scepticism all the BS floating around.
Whoever did it, the target wasn't hit in a drive by. The killer was walking a few meters behind the victim.

Are Rjhowie and Krake already defending that Putin has the right to kill opposition?
No? bah... when they start defending it, I'll post something :)

I get it, all too clear. Something "happens" to the most likely man to replace Putin in the next vote, he gets offed--- Putin or his goons are the most likely source of the outrage. This will never do of course, so RJHowie sides with his hero to try to save the day.

Boris Nemtsov Exposed Putin's Corruption—And Paid With His Life (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/27/boris-nemtsov-exposed-putin-s-corruption-and-paid-with-his-life.html)
The author knew Nemtsov personally. While he doesn't offer direct evidence, there are insights into the rampant corruption within the Kremlin.

The last time I saw Boris Nemtsov, in Tallinn, Estonia in 2013, he had wanted to find a way to tack on more Putin regime officials to a U.S. law that would ban them from entering the country or freeze whatever assets they held here. The former first deputy prime minister of Russia, who was brutally shot to death within eyeshot of the Kremlin this evening, had many enemies, not least of them the president of Russia. He was handsome, charismatic and popular in the West and in Eastern Europe. “First we liberate Belarus, and then Russia!” former Belarusian presidential candidate, dissident and Lukashenko torture victim Andrei Sannikov told him on that same occasion. Nemtsov joyfully agreed. On Sunday he had planned to lead a march against Vladimir Putin’s unacknowledged dirty war in Ukraine

.....

Two years ago, Nemtsov and his colleague Leonid Martynyuk released a report titled, “Winter Olympics in the Sub-Tropics: Corruption and Abuse in Sochi,” which alleged that Putin had personally overseen the enormous, profligate project and was therefore responsible for the estimated $26 billion frittered away in “embezzlement and kickbacks.” They named names. 

The names are Oleg Deripaska, Vladimir Potanin. Hrm, I wonder why  Putin's friends Boris and Arkady Rotenberg got 15 percent of the money  controlled by Olimpstroy, the state company created to finance the Olympics.

Just in the Olympics, Putin's pals ran off with billions but it corruption wasn't just in Sochi. (why have the winter olympics there? Might as well hold them in Las Vegas. We have mountains with snow and from work there's a nice view them. Just like with Sochi, the snow isn't reliable enough for Olympic games  just like in sub-tropical Russia....)

In 2012, the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/for-russians-corruption-is-just-a-way-of-life.html?_r=0) noted that  corruption is “Russia’s own special way.”  In the same year BBC Business (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-18622833) noted that the Russian economy is underperforming and falling well short of it's potential owing to the massive scale of corruption.

Nemtsov's death was another case of a true patriot being gunned down by the cronies in the capital. He wanted to clean up the system, but was murdered because doing so would hurt Putin and his pals bank accounts.

@Belfrager
Do you know who is behind that crime or are you only playing the jester? One jester more won't make any difference anyway.
Whatever, feel free to post anything, the usual rubbish inclusive. Nobody here will be shocked.

@Sanguinemoon
Instead of proudly presenting allegations and insinuations collected from your media, you could at least for a moment meditate about the country that is perceived by most people worldwide as the biggest threat for world peace.
Just a hint - it isn't 'Putin's' Russia, neither North Korea nor Iran.

Germany?

Germany?

Can you handle a search engine?
It's not too difficult, you may give it a try.

Germany?

Before this is over, it will be Ukraine itself at least in state controlled Russian media.

@Krake.  Putin's supporters could give one a try. It's the free and independent media that's critical of the Putin regime's actions. State-controlled media from Russia offers apologetics and denies to what the rest of the world finds blindingly obvious.

Quote from: tt92 on 2015-03-04, 01:43:51

Germany?

Before this is over, it will be Ukraine itself at least in state controlled Russian media.

Or Tuvalu - in case someone would still take you seriously.

@Krake. State-controlled media from Russia offers apologetics and denies to what the rest of the world finds blindingly obvious.

"Blindingly obvious" you say?

Whatever US media and that of its vassals consider to be blindingly obvious, don't mix it up with "the rest of the world".
The latter represents namely more than the former.

Speaking about crimes, it was also obvious for Western media that protesters on the maidan were shot by Yanukovych's order.
Kiev doesn't seem to have any interest to find and prosecute the killers. Neither does the West care anymore who they were.
One might wonder why? The idea that they were Yanukovych's men fits perfectly. Who cares if the pretended obvious gets mixed up with the truth as long as it serves the agenda.
The fact that many traces lead to the Right Sector (http://www.academia.edu/8776021/The_Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine) are simply ignored and the truth gets replaced step by step, by the pretended obvious.

As I posted elsewhere moments ago...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/putins-way/ (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/putins-way/)

Free and independent media? Ha ha, brilliant Sanguinemoon. The media is part of the corporate control hands which you choose to ignore because it does not suit. So any nation that does not kow-tow to the ex-colonies nut job leadership is in for a hard time. A country that needs over 400 bases and thinks the world needs it to influence and control is a far more dangerous corner than Russia. Jimbro for all his education is slumping into the same corner as the controlled mindsets. Russia was an enemeny as he grew up and the same for many over there. When the USSR went America thought that there would be a new era and the size of the country could offer great commercial interests and influence. However Russia had no intention of being sucked into the coroorate baron controllers.

That any politician is killed is wrong yet at the same time the West led by America sticks it's mouth into something that is none of it's business and all the hype about a politician who got 1% of Russian support. The way the media goes you would think it was 50% or like near Putin's level but nope. At the funeral the organisers refused other Russian opposition leaders to go and from Europe but that is sidelined as doesn't suit the brain controllers of the West. There has been since the collapse of the USSR regime a gradual move into a more capitalist direction by Russia but if you listened to some of the dumbness here in this forum you would shake your head at their stupidity.

I really and definitely would like them to fid the killer and those behind him with factual evidence not the utter and stupid mouthings going on here without any proof. It doesn't matter what hardships we in the West put on the bear it wll remain independent, proud and loyal so get used to it and try using a bit of patience instead of just sucummbing to the immediacy of being automatically bias. Kind of laughable that i get accused when it is widely practiced here and especially on Russia.

The media is part of the corporate control hands which you choose to ignore because it does not suit

And the non-corporate. And just because the outlet is one doesn't make what it says wrong. The converse is obviously true as well, a blogger can pass on misinformation and outright fabrications. I don't think it takes a genius to understand this. Meanwhile outfits like your RT are financed by the Russian government and is a propaganda arm of it.

Who cares about he placed in the election. He indeed had powerful enemies and from the sound of was on the brink revealing embarrassing information. Think of it this way. In 1972 Nixon won by a landslide. George McGovern only won in Massachusetts and Washington DC. What happened to  Tricky Dick?

Nemtsov was not the first in a string of Putin critics to be murdered. Only the latest one.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/04/crossing-kremlin-nemtsov-latest-in-long-line-putin-critics-to-wind-up-dead/

Enemies of Vladimir Putin have a way of winding up dead.

Whether they are poisoned, gunned down on the streets of Moscow or blown to bits in their homes, people who have crossed or merely criticized the Russian president have turned up dead around the world. Putin political adversary Boris Nemtsov, who was shot and killed near the Kremlin last week, is only the latest in a long line that includes hundreds of journalists, human rights activists and businessmen.

Hundreds of Putin critics, Howie and Krake. Coincidence? Or will you blame the messenger, which all the independent media in the fucking world.

Among the more notable cases:

Sergei Yushenkov was gunned down in front of his home in April 2003. Yushenkov was part of a commission that investigated claims the KGB orchestrated bombings to ignite support for Putin’s war against Chechnya. A second member of the commission was fatally poisoned, a third nearly lost his life after being severely beaten, and the attorney for the commission was imprisoned for espionage.
Forbes editor Paul Klebnikov was shot to death in Moscow in July 2004, after he reportedly uncovered a money-laundering scheme that reached the highest levels of the Kremlin. Two suspects were charged, but later acquitted. He was one of more than 300 journalists in Russia who have disappeared or been murdered since 1993, according to a June 2009 report from the International Federation of Journalists.
In June 2004, human rights advocate and professor Nikolai Girenko was assassinated in his home.
Andrei Kozlov, a top official at Russia’s Central Bank who dedicated his career to eliminating money laundering, was killed in September 2006.
Anna Politkovskaya, who wrote books and articles accusing Putin of human rights violations in Chechnya, was executed in an elevator in her Moscow apartment building on Oct. 7, 2006.
Human rights attorney Stanislav Markelov was shot in the head in January 2009, as he left a press conference where he announced plans to sue the Russian government. Journalism student Anastasia Barburova was killed as she tried to intervene.
Human rights journalist Natalia Estemirova, was killed in July 2009, after being kidnapped from her home in Chechnya.
Two well-known cases of the poisoning of Putin adversaries involved former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko and former KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko.

The world saw the effects of dioxin poisoning on the face of Yuschenko in 2004, when he was running for the office he held until 2010. The poisoning followed an assassination attempt, and although no one was ever charged, suspicion focused on the Kremlin which, in a twist that foreshadowed by a decade the current tension between Moscow and Kiev, may have feared Yuschenko would take Ukraine toward better relations with western Europe.

Litvinenko, who authored the Kremlin expose “Blowing up Russia,” and was living under asylum in Great Britain, was given a fatal dose of Polonium in November 2006. The main suspect is reportedly former KGB agent and Putin crony Andrey Lugovoy, who has since been elected to Russia’s Duman, putting him out of reach of extradition laws.

....

“Putin gets away with it because the Russian state controls the media in Russia, it rules with an iron fist, and Russians are deeply afraid of their own government,” said Nile Gardiner, of the Heritage Foundation. “Putin sits atop a vicious tyranny. Ordinary Russians won’t stand up to the state. There is a climate of fear with the Putin regime exercising a vise-like grip over the Russian people.”

What answer do you two have that criticising Putin seems to increase your risk of dying young? I'm not interested in criticisms of the media, general America bashing and other bullshit. I want to know why this isn't true.

From the Moscow Times: 62 Years On, Some Still Mourn for Josef Stalin.
From Jimbro: Some Republicans still Love Newt Gingrich.

I wonder if Krake and Howie know that Putin himself calls Nemtsov's murder political (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/04/us-russia-nemtsov-putin-idUSKBN0M010720150304), or at least has political subtext.

"The most serious attention should be paid to high-profile crimes, including the ones with a political subtext. Russia should be devoid at last of the kind of shame and tragedies that we have recently endured and seen," he said in a speech during a meeting with officials from the interior ministry.

"I mean the murder, the audacious murder of Boris Nemtsov right in the centre of the capital," he said.

Oh, and the car involved in Nemtsov's murder was owned by a state enterprise which provides security to government institutions. Just because the murder came from within the Kremlin doesn't mean Putin himself ordered it, which doesn't contradict that Vlad's enemies do have this bad habit of dying. Buried within the Kremlin the old black heart of the Soviet Union still beats from time to time. For Russia's sake, and for that of the rest of the world, the USSR's zombie needs to be put to rest. What this means in practical terms is to rid the Kremlin of men who picked up this habit of dispensing of their enemies in this fashion and pine for the old Soviet dictatorship. If they truly love their country, they need to retire.

Buried within the Kremlin the old black heart of the Soviet Union still beats from time to time.

From The Moscow Times...

In the Carnegie poll last year, 42 percent of Russian respondents named Stalin as the most influential historical figure.

"Vladimir Putin's Russia of 2012 needs symbols of authority and national strength, however controversial they may be, to validate the newly authoritarian political order," Gudkov wrote in the Carnegie report. "Stalin, a despotic leader responsible for mass bloodshed but also still identified with wartime victory and national unity, fits this need for symbols that reinforce the current political ideology."

Just think - Stalin with a bigger poll rating that the President of the half democracy the US of A!

Sanguinemoon, when it comes to dishing out would-be principles and guff about democracy, rights, freedoms remember this.

Right through  a big chunk of the 20th century your land was corrupt as Hell.Judges, police departments, politicians from governors to senators and congressmen in the pay of gangland and the Mafia. Even the Kennedy money came from crime. Hundreds of thousands in the KKK and again politicians, police and heaven knows who in with them. Towns run by corrupters and all in the land of so-called greatness. One State has had 4 governors in jail and there have been others. Even  President dumped for illegality.

Many of those in Russia are older people and they tend to be more used to a rigour and order they were trained in. Indeed i have watched occasionally ex-SS men interviewed who miss what they once had in Germany. So don't you come out with this rubbish as if you have a clean base to start with. The US thinks it has a right to control the world have military everywhere followed by corporate money people and some God-given right. Russia will not buckle to these stupid sanctions because it is a country with a long nationalism and conservative tradition. You like many have been gullible due to the corporate media coming out with ridiculous things and the politicians are also part of the braining.

For the younger Russians and a growin middle-class there are shops full, modern facilities the right to own business or a home (illegal in the USSR) and when you look back at the USSR and pictures of the cities they are boring and they have changed. Cities so full of cars now there are regular traffic jams, wider choices, modernity. Look how long your country has been working to try and be a democracy and it still has failed. So you have no damn right to shout rubbish about somewhere else.

you have no damn right to shout rubbish about somewhere else.

:jester:

The US thinks it has a right to control the world have military everywhere followed by corporate money people and some God-given right.

What you're conventionally forgetting is the US had to keep troops in Europe after the USSR seized control of the eastern half of the continent and that it's Russia now expanding it's military around the world, rigging the election in Crimea. Give your side 97 of the vote? What is this,  Amateur Hour?* At least the smarter folks in the Kremlin had to know that Americans would know that was bullshit, but equally aware that Obama wouldn't start WWIII over Crimea. Try to tell the world they don't have troops in Ukraine when they painted white circles on their vehicles and have soldiers admitting to being Russian troops? AND the Ukrainians fucking captured paratroopers :faint: It would have smarter to admit to having troops there and cite concerns for ethnic Russians.)

* If Mayor Goodman wanted to rig the election for her office, knowing that everybody's aware she has plenty of opposition, as a professional she would give her 53 percent so her victory would be within the margin of error of the opinion polls. They should have come Vegas and hire one of our vote rigging teams. We know how to do it right. :yes: Maybe the side to join Russia would have won anyway, just like Nixon probably would have in 1972. If that's case, just run the election clean instead being an idiot.

Anyway, Howie, no answer for the fact that Putin's enemies tend to find themselves "in a better place?" It's well documented and easily verifiable. More amateur hour, murder Nemtsov in a car owned by a state enterprise? Next time, they should steal some poor schmuck's car and do it and frame him. What a bunch of putzs using primitive Stalin/Cold War era techniques to eliminate opponents. I should mail the Kremlin copies of The Art of War and The Prince to get them started and thinking how to murder more professionally and better. At least the world would have more interesting Whodunit? next time.

Your turn Howie, Krake. Give us an intelligent case that the Kremlin didn't order the execution. Keep in mind none of this necessarily means Putin himself gave the order. I read an argument that Putin isn't this stupid, and that may well be the case. However, also keep in mind that the choice of car indicates an amatateur, perhaps a gifted one in the art of efficiently murdering without leaving survivable wounds; but not-quite-professionals forget things such as having zero clues to bring the Kremlin under suspicion. What were Nemtosv's hobbies and could he have an "accident" while indulging in them. Of course, the geniuses that killed him probably would have used a state car to drive to the scene of his "accident" :faint: Likewise if they wanted to stage a fatal car wreck for him. :p

The Kremlin accuses the opposition of Nemtsov's death, saying it's a "provocation." I don't think there's a argument along those lines that can withstand scrutiny, unless security is so poor that one can walk in, steal a state owned car, drive it to Red Square to commit murder without being stopped.  If that's the case, I should learn enough Russia to be passable and take a job as a janitor in the Kremlin but really conduct espionage. With security so poor, I could probably just copy files onto a thumbdrive from the computers running XP and sell them to CIA and make millions. :p  But I really don't think security is poor enough for me steal topsecret files onto a drive a I can stick in my pocket, let alone a murder car.

Nemtsov's friends ask: where were the police when he was shot?  (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/06/us-russia-nemtsov-surveillance-insight-idUSKBN0M225820150306)

The article outlines the heavy surveillance Nemtsov was under, so that means the KGB knew where he was. The answer to the question is the police were probably ordered to stay away.

What you're conventionally forgetting is the US had to keep troops in Europe after the USSR seized control of the eastern half of the continent and that it's Russia now expanding it's military around the world, rigging the election in Crimea.

The US had to keep troops in Europe? Why? Because it was asked to do so? Out of American generosity?
Don't expect that the world looks through the same white washed US made glasses, you do.

Firstly, military bases built up in countries who have lost the war, like Germany, Italy or Japan have been imposed. Nobody asked for them. Some of the treaties made after capitulation are still valid and kept classified. No government of those countries dares to disolve them unilaterally.
After 70 years those countries are still hosting US military bases. Ask the people living in those countries if they feel more protected because of those bases or rather want them going to hell. What do you thing US nukes are stationed for in Germany? To save my ass or yours in the extreme?

Since WWII the USA  has stretched its military bases all over the world. Guess why? To protect the world from 'Putin's' Russia?

Cold War, War on Drugs, War on Terror. The USA needs those wars like a junky to keep and extend permanently its military bases worldwide. If neccessary it has to project those wars.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Eh Sanguinemoon? Now it is Russia spreading around the world? How utterly daft is that and beyond sense. Now come on now list all the bases that Russia has "all over the world." Hw do you explain the need for your country to have hundreds of bases everywhere?  You controlled dictatorships all over South America for decades so hardly one to put everything even on to the USSR which i had no time for. And anyway when the USSR collapsed what then happened to eastern europe they all moved into the Western camp! So NATO that situation having been corrected should have shut down but no, the imperialism of DC was determined to be the world controller.

Keeping NATO is morally wrong and it is all about military control and corporate greed and how stupid is it to increase the trillions of debt you are in and worsened by military games. On Saturday night I watched the general in charge of the Ukrainian Army in dress uniform saying to a tv cvamera that there were no thousands of Russian troops nor hundreds of tanks in his territory yet your UN ambassador and Deputy Secretary of States both came out with guff and contradicted that military chief! America is such a control and emotion freak that just believes everything the media blasts them with and I bet you very few seen that general or know the truth.

Saying Crimea was a fix is typical. If you support a referendum anywhere then that is morally right but if you don't it is automatically wrong. The only country which is all over the world is yours and in decade after decade every country you have sent the boots in or destabilised has been followed by the corporates. So when you talk about "defending American interests"  what it really means is the money barons money. Our media is bad enough on Russia but your is so out of kilter and dishes out rubbish organised by brain dumbing liars. Crimea never wanted to be part of Ukraine and glad they are back home and what you lot should do is withdraw from this nonsense that the world needs you. no it does not and as i point out any country that you cannot control is automatically an enemy and to be dealt with but this time you are not going to get that so tough.

For a country likes yours with a long history of corruption in politics and money, deep racists problems, militarised police especially on the less fortunate and for heaven's sake don't be black, coming out with utter damnable lies you think the world is as daft as you lot just accepting what the media bangs you with.Try sorting out your own country and accept the fact you are NOT going to dominate Russia so live with it.

The US had to keep troops in Europe? Why? Because it was asked to do so? Out of American generosity?

Because the Soviet  Union took Eastern Europe and established puppet governments in the region. Geez and they say Americans are bad at history. :faint: The Soviets were afraid Germany would rise again and wanted buffer states

No government of those countries dares to disolve them unilaterally.

How many actually want to?

Cold War, War on Drugs, War on Terror. The USA needs those wars like a junky to keep and extend permanently its military bases worldwide.

I call the War on Terror "the War in Error." You go to war against specific countries and groups, both something like "the War on Terror" sounds like the type of perpetual war in 1984. You always needs something to be a war against, and the war constant against the barbarians the brought down the Romans. The "war on drugs" is also idiocy. However, the Cold War was not unilaterally conducted by the United States. I personally denounced some of the governments the Americans propped up, but look at the crap the Soviet Union pulled. Many of hailed the end of it when the USSR fell, wanting a "peace dividend" in the form of lower taxes, improved education, infrastructure improvements, etc in the hope we could finally reduce the military after decades of pouring money down the pentagon-shaped money-sucking blackhole. But now we have Putin upgrading the Russian military, seizing control of Crimea, fighting along side separatists in Ukraine :( If you know nothing else about Obama, know he is not a cold warrior. He has ideas to improve America (education, equality for LGBT people, spend less a proportion of GDP on the military, etc.) If one agrees with what he wants to do or not, it's clear what Russia's doing now is the last thing he wanted.

Saying Crimea was a fix is typical. If you support a referendum anywhere then that is morally right but if you don't it is automatically wrong.

show me any election or referendum that 97 percent of voters agree on something and I'll show you amateurishly conducted electoral fraud. Try it yourself. Think of a question that most people will say "yes" to and ask 100 truly random people and not just your friends. I guarantee more than three will say "no." You might get 70 or 80 "yes" answers, but not 97.  There hasn't been an honest election in history that's this close to unanimous. Do you get it yet? The problem isn't that the result was "yes" but the "yes" to "no" ratio, especially in region where you have a sizable minority (the Tartars) that are diametrically opposed to Russian rule.

Well passingly in Scotland we had an 84.6% turnout so not too far off 90% which few places in the ex-colonies can beat and don't get too envious there Sanguinemoon! A referendum inNorth Kosovo in the small Serbian area was up in the 90's  but there is something you simply shut you eyes to because it does not suit your argument.

Crimea was Russian! It was dumped into Ukraine by the Soviet dictator and the people had not asked for that had they? Small wonder then when your thug pals took over Kiev they made a point of not including the east nor Crimea in anything . Small wonder the majority in Crimea wanted to be back home where they more felt they belonged. Is there something wrong with that from a fan of the so-called rights, freedoms your country falsely preaches? Your lot simply went all for the Albanians in the Kosovo region of Serbia to go because Serbia was a pal of Russia and not you. Kind of odd principles you practice and the nerve of attacking someone else! This two-faced attitude is alive and well in your own country. Jst imagine anyone building up a movement in a State and pushing for an independence referendum and you will see how ludicrous democracy is over the pond.

Kosovo was gradually taken over by people who over a long time had deserted their native Albania then took the province away from Serbia so that is okay. Crimea wanted to go back to where it used to be and would feel happier but they are wrong. You have no logic I am afraid in the matter of referendums unless they are approved by the US and if not somehow that isn't democratic? Dear, oh dear.

Quote from: krake on 2015-03-07, 08:26:02

The US had to keep troops in Europe? Why? Because it was asked to do so? Out of American generosity?

Because the Soviet  Union took Eastern Europe and established puppet governments in the region. Geez and they say Americans are bad at history. :faint: The Soviets were afraid Germany would rise again and wanted buffer states

You are still missing to answer my questions: Why? Because it was asked to do so? Out of American generosity?

Quote from: krake on 2015-03-07, 08:26:02

No government of those countries dares to disolve them unilaterally.

How many actually want to?

What a silly question!
Can you imagine an US government wanting German or Japanese military bases enhanced with electronic espionage facilities on US territory?
How stupid you think the rest of the world is?

If you know nothing else about Obama, know he is not a cold warrior. He has ideas to improve America (education, equality for LGBT people, spend less a proportion of GDP on the military, etc.

You're right. I know little about Obama and care even less. All I know is that your dear 'Peace' President managed to bomb seven countries in six years.
For a 'Peace' President this is an awesome record in mankind's history.
However there are chances that the next US President will overtrump even this outstanding record.

show me any election or referendum that 97 percent of voters agree on something and I'll show you amateurishly conducted electoral fraud. ... Do you get it yet? The problem isn't that the result was "yes" but the "yes" to "no" ratio, especially in region where you have a sizable minority (the Tartars) that are diametrically opposed to Russian rule.

WTF? 65% or 100%, it's irrelevant. It's a vast majority anyway. If you do respect the will of a vast majority than you will have to accept this one too. Get over it. If you can't, you can keep barking along, using the same rhetoric your government & media does.

BTW, the 97 percent came from the people who have voted. Most Tartars kept away from the ballots.

The US had to keep troops in Europe? Why? Because it was asked to do so? Out of American generosity?
Don't expect that the world looks through the same white washed US made glasses, you do.

Yes, we damn well asked. We had just been occupied by Nazi Germany and the Red Army was in Berlin. That's why we signed the Treaty of Brussels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brussels) and then expanded it to create NATO because we wanted the US in as well. If anything it's the US that got the worse end of the deal.

WTF? 65% or 100%, it's irrelevant. It's a vast majority anyway.

65% is an insufficient majority to change the constitution in most countries, so the difference matters quite a bit.

I see that Putin is caught out

Putin reveals Russia secret Crimea takeover in documentary (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31796226)

Because it was asked to do so?

Yes. Do they teach history in your country?

WTF? 65% or 100%, it's irrelevant. It's a vast majority anyway.

A lot. If the vote is fraudulent, the entire thing is invalid. And,as Frenzi said, 65% is usually not enough to change the constitution anyway. From the demographics of Crimea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#Demographics), an honest vote might not have even gotten that. You can't change a constitution on 58%, because next year or the year after it could will be 48% :p This is not the type of thing you do on a whim.

All I know is that your dear 'Peace' President managed to bomb seven countries in six years.

Did I say he was a peace president? He is far more concerned about domestic policy. But you offer not source for the bombings. Was he bombing, say, an ISIS camp in country as opposed to the country itself? He did inherit war in Afghanistan and Iraq from his predecessor. Just because the president changes doesn't mean the war automatically goes away. Since in your anti-Americanism you failed to provide a source, here's one (http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/23/politics/countries-obama-bombed/index.html). Yup, most of the time he didn't actually bomb the country but ISIS or Al Qaeda that happened to be in the country. What anti-America propaganda source do you and Howie get your misinformation from?

  What anti-America propaganda source do you and Howie get your misinformation from?

Local breakfast television.

Yes, we damn well asked. We had just been occupied by Nazi Germany and the Red Army was in Berlin. That's why we signed the Treaty of Brussels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brussels) and then expanded it to create NATO because we wanted the US in as well. If anything it's the US that got the worse end of the deal.

Please don't mix things up deliberately.
I hardly can believe that your country asked for foreign military bases of which it had absolutely no contol over.
At least the link you are providing doesn't mention such things.

I'm speaking about some US military bases under exclusive US control. Our only involvement is to finance them!

65% is an insufficient majority to change the constitution in most countries, so the difference matters quite a bit.

Are you kidding? Which constitution are you referring to? A Crimean constitution that has to be aproved first by Kiev?
If you are referring to the constitution of the Ukraine, that one was already violated when armed rebels hijacked the Maidan protests and took over the power ignoring the negociated agreemant made between representatives of the Maidan and EU representatives.

Yup, most of the time he didn't actually bomb the country but ISIS or Al Qaeda that happened to be in the country.

Or children and women which happened to be in the area. I'm not even talking about inocent men since every man at military age who was killed is conform US definition automatically also a hostile combatant.
As for the countries listed in the article you mention, in most of them the fire was set up by the US. I hope you are able to find sources on your own for that.

Please don't mix things up deliberately.
I hardly can believe that your country asked for foreign military bases of which it had absolutely no contol over.
At least the link you are providing doesn't mention such things.

I'm speaking about some US military bases under exclusive US control. Our only involvement is to finance them!

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. Apparently when you say "Europe" you mean something more like "Germany". I don't think that makes me the one to mix things up. And speaking of Germany, they're closing up several US military bases this very year and they've been doing so every year since the end of the Cold War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_installations_in_Germany#Former_installations).

Are you kidding? Which constitution are you referring to?

Um, "the constitution in most countries"? I'm not sure how to put it any clearer than that.

I'm against closing military bases.
Let our American friends pay for local economy all over the world, that's what all those bases serves for, atomic intercontinental missiles are the only thing that counts. Have them and you're a player, don't and you do not exist.

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. Apparently when you say "Europe" you mean something more like "Germany". I don't think that makes me the one to mix things up.

When I speak about US military bases then I mean US military bases and not NATO facilities or other joint facilities.
As for Germany it happens to be in Europe.

Um, "the constitution in most countries"? I'm not sure how to put it any clearer than that.

If we are speaking about Crimea it makes little sense to refer to the constitution of Tuvalu or that of other countries.
The constitutions of other countries have little or more precisely nothing in common with the constitution Crimea had.
Therefore it was irrelevant if 65% or 100%  had voted for secession. Kiev wouldn't have allowed it anyway.

I'm against closing military bases.
Let our American friends pay for local economy all over the world, that's what all those bases serves for, atomic intercontinental missiles are the only thing that counts. Have them and you're a player, don't and you do not exist.

I can't tell for Portugal but the military bases of our American friends in Germany are financed by local tax payers.

Getting back to "Putin's Russia," this just in:

Moscow (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Friday he was cutting his salary by 10 percent as well as the earnings of several top government officials, as the country's economy reels from the collapse of the ruble.

Does anybody here understand the old saying? "In a pig's ass!"

Sitting on a hill inside Spain’s most exclusive private estate, it is just the sort of mansion fitting for a king... or Russian president.
So, it is no surprise to learn that the president of Russia has apparently acquired the purchase of this £15 million palace project in the heart of Zagaleta estate, near Marbella.
The 4,000m² villa is being built on order for President Putin within metres of homes owned by Rod Stewart and the former mayor of Moscow.(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2012%2F10%2F18%2Farticle-2219754-158F534F000005DC-79_634x286.jpg&hash=9bbb490f84a49550327739936bde4fe9" rel="cached" data-hash="9bbb490f84a49550327739936bde4fe9" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/18/article-2219754-158F534F000005DC-79_634x286.jpg)

Or children and women which happened to be in the area

Because it's so much better to let ISIS and Al-Qaeda do and establish an Islamic dictatorship, huh?

This (http://news.yahoo.com/isis-gruesome-muslim-death-toll-094500438--politics.html) is from October, so the numbers are higher now.

Last Thursday, the United Nations released a report that could provide us with one of the keys to defeating ISIS. Unfortunately, it received almost zero media attention.

What makes this 26-page report (PDF) so powerful is that it describes to us the gruesome circumstances in which ISIS has killed fellow Muslims. We are talking beheadings, killing of women for objecting to ISIS’ policies, and executing Sunni Muslim clerics for refusing to swear allegiance to ISIS.

All of which are preferable outcomes than bombing an ISIS camp, aren't they :p

What did the UN find? ISIS had “carried out attacks deliberately and systematically targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure, with the intention of killing and wounding civilians.” The UN concluded that in the first eight months of 2014, at least 9,347 civilians had been killed and at least 17,386 wounded. While all these deaths are not attributable to ISIS alone, ISIS is identified as the primary actor. (The report also documents what could be considered war crimes committed by the Iraqi military.)

Indeed, the Americans are the bad guys, right?

It's so easy to find out of context "facts" like there were bombings in six countries under Obama. Even easier to drag in the emotionalism that women and children could be collateral damage. Why not post of a photo of child that happened to be in wrong place at the wrong time, while not posting the thousands more that died at the hands of ISIS while you're at it? Oh yeah, also forget to mention that the craven cowards with no moral compass will make sure there are civilian casualties for propaganda purposes.

When I speak about US military bases then I mean US military bases and not NATO facilities or other joint facilities.
As for Germany it happens to be in Europe.

And we, as in the rest of the Europe, didn't really want Germany to have a proper military again for a bit, now did we? You seem to think it's all some evil American ploy forced upon us. The rest of Europe thinks it was a rational bit of self-preservation. Then the Cold War happened and Germany had the same idea.

Considering what happened the last time Germany had its own well-established military--- I can understand the rest of Europe getting a bit edgy at the thought of Germany getting itself re-established as a military force by-- oh, say, 1948 or so.

Of course, by 1950 lots of Europeans became more concerned with the rapacious habits of bears rather than eagles, so military bases built by somebody in West Germany became a must.

Of course, by 1950 lots of Europeans became more concerned with the rapacious habits of bears rather than eagles,

And now it's happening again. Estonia and other Baltic nations are not as blind to what post-Soviet Russia did in Georgia and Ukraine as Krake and Howie are. 

More on Putin.

Saying that he stopped western nations from launching an air strike on Syria, a Russian advocacy group known as The International Academy of Spiritual Unity and Cooperation of Peoples of the World has nominated Vladimir Putin for the Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.theonion.com/search/?q=putin (http://www.theonion.com/search/?q=putin)

And we, as in the rest of the Europe,

We in 'the rest of Europe' aka me Frenzie?
Till now nobody on this forum came up with the idea to represent a continent. Congratulations.
So the 'rest of Europe' aka Frenzie thinks that US military bases spreading all over the world are safeguarding the world from the rise of the 4th Reich and from Putin's Russia. Interesting.
Let us know what else the 'rest of Europe' thinks. You must know best since you seem to be the spokesman of the 'rest of Europe'.

I think that American governments believes that "diplomacy of influence" it's something done by installing cannons.
The problem is that they are not too much wrong.

Quote from: Frenzie on 2015-03-10, 07:26:54

And we, as in the rest of the Europe,

We in 'the rest of Europe' aka me Frenzie?
Till now nobody on this forum came up with the idea to represent a continent. Congratulations.
So the 'rest of Europe' aka Frenzie thinks that US military bases spreading all over the world are safeguarding the world from the rise of the 4th Reich and from Putin's Russia. Interesting.
Let us know what else the 'rest of Europe' thinks. You must know best since you seem to be the spokesman of the 'rest of Europe'.

On this forum I represent a continent.

Krake--- considering what Germany managed to do in two world wars, I reckon Frenzie might be right. The rest of Europe wasn't exactly tickled at the idea of Germany getting armed again right after WW2, they were afraid of what Germany might do next if that happened. On the other hand-- Stalin was beginning to feel his oats, and grabbing nearby countries to add to Soviet holdings became something of a hobby--- that other European nations suddenly had an interest in discouraging. Only the UK and the USA had anything like the armed might that would be needed to slow an aggressive bear down, so--- we got invited in to stop the whole of Europe from becoming Soviet.

Only the UK and the USA had anything like the armed might that would be needed to slow an aggressive bear down, so--- we got invited in to stop the whole of Europe from becoming Soviet.

We ain't accepting no mo invitations!

so--- we got invited in to stop the whole of Europe from becoming Soviet.

And asked by the Germans to station their nukes on its territory. Probably because they made Germany very safe...

Besides, if you invite someone to your house you don't expect him to stay for the rest of your life. Do you?

We in 'the rest of Europe' aka me Frenzie?
Till now nobody on this forum came up with the idea to represent a continent. Congratulations.
So the 'rest of Europe' aka Frenzie thinks that US military bases spreading all over the world are safeguarding the world from the rise of the 4th Reich and from Putin's Russia. Interesting.
Let us know what else the 'rest of Europe' thinks. You must know best since you seem to be the spokesman of the 'rest of Europe'.

Let's repeat what I actually said:

1) These bases were established in the American occupation zone in a post-WW2 context. A context which you clearly seem to (want to?) know almost nothing about.
2) There they remained because of the Cold War.
3) Since the end of the Cold War, they've been closing several bases a year. This year another three will close.

I don't comprehend how you think that after the horrific occupation of most of Europe during WW2 (as opposed to the "benign" military occupation during WW1), there wasn't a widespread agreement that something had to be done about Germany. The US was actually the mitigating voice, pleading for a stable Germany instead of a country cut up into pizza slices (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_annexation_of_German_territory_after_World_War_II).

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F1%2F16%2FBakker_Schut-plan.PNG&hash=2bc9dd8262327b4ddb886fe4bf18fb45" rel="cached" data-hash="2bc9dd8262327b4ddb886fe4bf18fb45" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Bakker_Schut-plan.PNG)

Germany not having a military for about a decade was part of the compromise. You also seem to be conveniently forgetting about the 276 Soviet army bases in East Germany. Did you know they didn't fully vacate the place until the mid '90s, even though the Wall fell in '89 and the USSR itself in '91?

On the purpose of NATO (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hastings_Ismay): "To keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down."

I don't think I've ever heard that before, but that sure is the gist of what we* wanted.

* As in the Benelux, France, and the UK in particular, but also e.g. — quite obviously, I would say — Denmark and Norway. And lest I'm accused of being a Batavian or a Frank or a member of some other Germanic tribe, Portugal and Greece (and even Turkey, which I don't believe was really threatened during the war) had much the same idea.

And the more bases today is more money for the armaments corporate faction. Conjuring lies to justify them is well versed.

"To keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down."

If that's the purpose of Nato, they got two out of three. Americans in, Russians out but Germans down??
Today, Germany rules over an Empire that's double the size of Americans, the only thing they don't have it's an Army. Is it really needed? don't think so.

I think I side with Jimbro on this. Krake and RJHowie seem to love feeding bears. Next time there's a problem--- maybe we should just let them feed the bears.

Next time there's a problem--- maybe we should just let them feed the bears.

Okay. I'll get them both a first aid kit, though :left:

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2015-03-11, 21:59:36

Next time there's a problem--- maybe we should just let them feed the bears.

Okay. I'll get them both a first aid kit, though :left:

No need. Bears just hug folks.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ftheinspirationroom.com%2Fdaily%2Fprint%2F2010%2F11%2Fjohn_west_bear_hug.jpg&hash=1ef18962a2074a4a82ab209d40cf3709" rel="cached" data-hash="1ef18962a2074a4a82ab209d40cf3709" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/print/2010/11/john_west_bear_hug.jpg)

Well it is one h of a better hug than that damn eagle that is all over the world with marching boots, guns and robot planes.

Meanwhile the Western media is still on the hype and you would think they were all connected to that bunch of nut cases on Fox. No demands for impartial investigations in toe (sad actually) killing of the opposition "leader" of 1% of the population. A point missed by the mjsmsprt40's of the world. One can just imagine the furore over the pond if another country ever dared to demand independent reviews of assassinations in the USA! Now the USA sends military vehicles and soldiers to the Baltic States. Another load of old cobblers on those 3 nations being ready for being invaded. And that reminds me that you totally ignored it when I pointed out that the Latvian Foreign Minister publicly said that he didn't feel threatened.

NATO should have been scrapped years ago and the US instead of the trillions wasted on military junkets spend it on the vast numbers inside their own land needing help. The onslaught on the bear IS because as I have made clear, Russia will not be dominated by the US led West clown minds. If a country does not go the way America wants and excuse will be created to squeeze the country or invade it (leaving a mess behind) it will be invaded or blocked. The background reason is that the coprate string pullers are losing out on an area to get money from.

Well Russia will not be invaded it is too strong for that baloney. You can squeeze it all you like but it will not give in and your corporates who also control the media will make sure suitable propaganda is the order of the day.  It is a proud and patriotic country that does not practice it's patriotism the way America does in using people. It is also conservative as are many countries. Conservatism in countries can often be different and most aren't as bad as the US version. The selfish of America is also apparent in that industry and farm producers right across Europe are squealing due to losing vast amounts of money. The US doesn't care a damn about this because they can get by little effected but have the nerve to tell others to stick to the propaganda!

That the bear is dealing with that squawking and imbecile eagle is A1. As i type this I have put on my cd of the St Petersburgh Naval band playing the former imperial Regiment Marches. Ah-ha..here comes "God Save the Tsar" and I dedicate this to my Chicagoan especially!  :hat: :sing:

As i type this I have put on my cd of the St Petersburgh Naval band playing the former imperial Regiment Marches

Good. Why don't you move to Russia? Too afraid that your fantasies of Imperial Russia reborn will prove not to be true? Too afraid to talk to Russians and learn that Putin's polls numbers are cooked and having to remember me telling that polling outfit was threatened with closure by the Russian government after showing a drop in the "Czar's" popularity? I never knew Glaswegians looked like this:

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-LC0E_FcMyZo%2FT6JnXBrwERI%2FAAAAAAAAALQ%2FyL_PfPbHB8s%2Fs1600%2Fkeeping-chickens-7.jpg&hash=795864dc1f2adefcff343322cfd4c92b" rel="cached" data-hash="795864dc1f2adefcff343322cfd4c92b" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LC0E_FcMyZo/T6JnXBrwERI/AAAAAAAAALQ/yL_PfPbHB8s/s1600/keeping-chickens-7.jpg)

Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2015-03-11, 21:59:36

Next time there's a problem--- maybe we should just let them feed the bears.

Okay. I'll get them both a first aid kit, though :left:

You should give that first 'aid kit' to the millions of people living in the regions where your country has set up the fire lately.
It will keep you busy for the rest of your life...

Bears just hug folks.

Little bears at work in the Siberian town Krasnojarsk

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn2.spiegel.de%2Fimages%2Fimage-822655-galleryV9-cunh.jpg&hash=e0e609debeb741107fb56d8e0a6aa6fc" rel="cached" data-hash="e0e609debeb741107fb56d8e0a6aa6fc" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-822655-galleryV9-cunh.jpg)

You should give that first 'aid kit' to the millions of people living in the regions where your country has set up the fire lately.
It will keep you busy for the rest of your life...

What the hell are you blathering incoherently about now? You and Howie just kill me when you go on like the US is the only country that has issues. Howie likes to pretend Britain's history is squeaky clean, but America's is nothing but soaked in blood. It's terrible what America did to the native Americans. It's just as bad, if not worse what the British did to the Irish (through their actions managed to halve the island's population not once but twice through Cromwell's invasion and the Potato Famine. What kind of bastards allow food to be exported from Ireland as the Irish starve, may they rot in Hell forever.) The fact is major nations have had blood on their hands in the past and this includes Russia (not even counting the USSR area, which then we had millions of Ukrainians dead at the hands of man-made famine, Stalin's purges, forcible eviction of Crimean Tartars from their homeland and the list goes on...)

Today we have anti-American dimshits that condemn the US for bombing ISIS, saying "the US bombed X country" but knowing the US actually bombed a camp full of psychopathic murderers, but defending Russian aggression in Ukraine to the bitter end and claim it doesn't exist despite Ukraine capturing Russian paratroops, Russia only weaponry and other equipment showing up as noted above, Russian soldiers admitting it, etc. With the issues at hand, Putin is clearly the villain. Where are the American tanks battling the Russian ones with white circles on them as they fire at Ukrainian troops? There's not a way that America is the aggressor here. Putin is.

What's afoot in the Kremlin?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/14/world/europe/russia-putin-seen-in-public.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/14/world/europe/russia-putin-seen-in-public.html)

MOSCOW — Where’s Putin?

The question obsessed Moscow and much of Russia on Friday, as speculation mounted as to why President Vladimir V. Putin had not been seen in public for more than a week.

Quote from: krake on 2015-03-14, 09:38:57

You should give that first 'aid kit' to the millions of people living in the regions where your country has set up the fire lately.
It will keep you busy for the rest of your life...

What the hell are you blathering incoherently about now?

For someone with the intellect of yours it might sound like incoherent blathering. :)
Have you already forgotten Iraq, Libya and Syria? That's what I meant by lately.
So you are fighting now ISIS, the monsters you have created? You get now the chance to bomb some countries twice, for different reasons. How epic!
Are Hitler and Stalin the only justification for what you are doing now and have done during the last decades?
Or is maybe Putin your justification for it?

Anti-American dimshits? Have you ever looked into a mirror? Wonder what you saw.

Not lately, but you might have mentioned Vietnam  and Korea. :D

Not to forgot our meddling in the Pacific and Europe in the 40's.

Must say Sanguinemoon that krake is fairly near a good appraisal of you. You have a closed mindset and just swallow all the anti-Russian claptrap as if you work for Fox.  The Russian government spent millions at the last Presidential Election having security and cameras in polling stations but that does not fit into your shut mind and limited grey cells.  You really have a damnable nerve on the principles of elections when you look at the States and the money dished out by the corporates but there again it IS THEM who ran the place . Maybe it is time you spent time and money inside your own country rather than ignore the tens of millions of poor Yanks. Hardly a very principled stance yakking about some other country. You just swallow what you are brained with and your political system is hardly something to boast about.

As for mocking Russian history and a subject you know little about is another laugh when you look at the internal history of America. That history contradicts the so-called principles and founding so get thee to the back of the clas until you actually learn something.

Not lately, but you might have mentioned Vietnam  and Korea. :D

Korea and Vietnam are just 2 examples out of many. Indonesia, Cuba, Iran, ...
I don't think Sanguimoon is keen to lecture the entire list, that's why I only mentioned some of the latest.

Not to forgot our meddling in the Pacific and Europe in the 40's.

I see. Hitler and Stalin are to blame for anything the US did or does till the present day.
It might be convenient trying to hide under their dirty skirts in the 21th century.
However, don't you think that this is a quite pitiful stereotype? Wonder how many people around the world do still buy it.

All this America bashing doesn't hide the fact the Russia and Russia alone is responsible for its action in Ukraine. There's no longer an intelligent way to deny it. America shouldn't have invaded invaded Iraq. That created a weak state that's not capable to holding back ISIS on its own. Some of us told the Republicans something like this would happen way back using tactical as well as humanitarian pleas against it back in the day. But that doesn't change what Russia is doing now. Nor does it explain why Putin's enemies have this tendency to end up dead. Did you see Bush's political rivals gunned down in the streets, or Obama's. And I doubt that will happen to the next administration's.

I get it. Putin's Russia is so fabulous that we have to bash America on every post instead of disusing the topic ;)

Not to forgot our meddling in the Pacific and Europe in the 40's.

A brief mention, such as this one, will be lost on some of our members who seem to have been taught a blinkered brand of history.

No, they understand history perfectly as their crap little socialist websites and blogs tell it to them. Imperial America formed an empire out of Europe and established bases against the wishes of the local governments to enforce the dictatorship. Meanwhile, the Soviet Union was peacefully minding its own business, and clearly didn't establish puppet dictatorships throughout eastern Europe and its people enjoyed freedoms unheard of in the West.

You really show how easy it is to bash America as there are so many of your mind lsot. The USA =good. Anything else = needs US influence. However the way you have ran yhour country is a disgrace. White, comfortable then fine. I have NEVER supported the USSR and fine you damn well know it. What you did after WW2 (how wonderful YOU won it although took your time coming in like WW1). Ans as your norm war always means corprate advancement next. Let me remind you - again of the situation after WW1 in Russia. During the Civil War when the USA, Britain, France and japan had troops there to back up the Whites what did you lot do? Behind the scenes you were secretly dealing with those damn Bolshevik socialists on money and business investment. It was the same after WW2 when at Yalta there was dialogue between Churchill your leader and Stalin. Once more your President when behind Churchill's back to deal with Stalin because he was so full of hmself and could sort Stalin out. Yeah, history tells us different.

You are really of the same daft mindset as McCain and you totally ignore any factual list of hypocrisy or subterfuge by putting it in the other cumy corner of "US bashing." That in itself is so easy on what you get up to.

As for Putin and today's Russia it is vastly different from the USSR but you lot thought after the collapse of the Reds there was another big country to get into too for the imperial corporate side. Russia has no intention of wanting bases all over the globe like you ignorant dumbells under the excuse of "protecting our interests" when what is meant is corporate interests. You totally ignore the bigotry inside your own land the widespread poverty the increasin stupid debt the infringements of thhat consitution. You would get far morte respect if you attempted to answer the charges ratrher than try and haughtily dismiss as you are from the "greatest country" for rights, freedomns and so on. A load of codswallop.

Russia has no intention of "invading" the baltic States just another haughty US excuse to dominate. And the stuff about Ukraine's situation being caused by Russia! Maybe you don't have a house but live in the Fox TB building? And yet another reminder that for ages Ukraine was being fed oil cheaper than anyone else in europe, etc . That it was the head bangers in Kiev that overthrew a perfectly elected government. That that government was not 1100% is not the issue, democracy is. It was the Kiev faction and the West of Ukraine that made the problems. At NO TIME did they consult their fellow Ukrainians in the east so the Ukraine which was already in decline through their own faults, corruption and inefficency are caused by Russia?? One could make better allowances for your opinion if you were not being so crassly stupid, ignorant and not ables to properly answer political arguments.

Putin has said repeatedly he does not want the East and in addition we get this utter further stupidity of large numbers of tanks and thousands of troops crossing the Border. Why did the commander of the Ukrainian Army appear on tv and deny this and say his troops had seen none of this. You are so blinded by the greed barons in the US who also control the media to the point of absurdity. Sanctions are another form of warfare without the weapons but this is one of the confrontations you lot of redneck clowns will not succeed in. Every military thing you get involved with is followed by a mess and thankfully this will not happen to Russia. The fact that your champion itiot who is a laugh to intelligent people, namely McCain went to support the mindsets in Kiev and West Ukraine is another fiasco. Did he as a wondeerful pillar of the wouild-be democratic champions come out agsinst the Right Sector in the kiev givernment? Nope. Did he say anything about the neo-Nazis serving in the nationa Guard and who did not want a cease fire? nope.  Did he say anyhting about the large numbers of old people not getting pensions, bank transactions blocked, electric and water blocked amongst innocent civilians? Nope.

The day you lot go bankrupt (and remember when you attack those terrible socialists how much in hock you are to Red China!) and the corporates no longer able to control what passes for "democracy" in the USA and the military corporate industry will be a joy to the world. Russia will not need to have done anyhthing but smile.

Putin has said repeatedly he does not want the East and in addition we get this utter further stupidity of large numbers of tanks and thousands of troops crossing the Border.

Not directly annexed into the Russia, no. But to split the country and create a buffer state in case Ukraine becomes part of NATO. The sad things is Russia's actions have made Ukraine joining more, not less, likely.

Did he as a wondeerful pillar of the wouild-be democratic champions come out agsinst the Right Sector in the kiev givernment?

The Right Sector has a total membership of about 10,000 and is hardly a force within the Ukrainian government. Now if you read up on the it, you'll find that Right Sector is a creature of Russia in that it was formed as a result and response to that country's actions.

Russia will not need to have done anyhthing but smile.

That's pretty much what Khrushchev meant when he said "We will bury you!" (But he was a monkey that wasn't all thumbs… :) ) And yet Soviet communism has left the world stage. Only the hangers-on like you, Howie, still try to support it.
Though you won't say it — you're not Orange; you're Red!
(And yellow; so, I guess you're orange after all… :) )

Though you won't say it — you're not Orange; you're Red!
(And yellow; so, I guess you're orange after all…  :)  )

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23_6RyrhpDw[/video]

Putin has said repeatedly he does not want the East and in addition we get this utter further stupidity of large numbers of tanks and thousands of troops crossing the Border.

If he said it, then it must be true.
My mantra...
Never distrust a politician.
Never distrust a politician.
Never distrust a politician.
Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ!
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=633eH4yajHE[/video]

What a rather odd bit of stuff from Sanguinemoon that the Red Sector was created because of Russia??! It is as obvious as Hell that 10,000 hard necks on streets ARE a big problem as they proved in helping to overthrow an elected government. I would also remind that the same crowd of Nazis are IN the government and you do not get an Mp or a Minister with just saying they have 10,000. It is the influence they have proved to have well beyond that figure. So there is a bigger support of the Right Sector which wears Nazi style symbols and I would remind that Ukraine especially in the West side were very suppportive of the Nazis in WW2 and had their own SS Units. To this day there are still memorials and events to mark the Ukrainian SS Leader during the war.

In addition Right Sector also serve in the National Guard which they think is brilliant as gives them official permission to do what they almost like.  As for the Crimea it went back to where it belonged and fine Sanguinemoon should know it as it never wanted to be dumped into Ukraine. The vast majority there are Russian language speakers and the Crimea and the east were NEVER consulted about the coup. Now the citizenry there are getting better pensions, welfare and other important improvements. Having been forced out of Russia in the dictatorship days they have returned to their natural home and rightfully too. You would think that the great American minds on rights and such would be widely based but nah.

Ukraine caused it's own mess and their own corruption, decline and financial disaster. Too many Americans cannot think for themselves and just accept what they are told by the controlled media. Americans having been brought up to think the world is theirs and everyone should conform to what they have as a political system  will in turn take exception to any country that refuses to bend the knee. Crimea will not be going back so bleat all you like as the people are where they want to be not in a Ukrainian self created mess. If that out of date lot NATO, were ever to have Ukraine in it then kiss goodbye to the east it will be permanently gone too.  How a mind can cover up Ukraine's self amassed mess by blaming Russia that helped them finacially is beyond reason!

And never trust imperial US politicians in the world......

As for the Crimea it went back to where it belonged and fine Sanguinemoon should know it as it never wanted to be dumped into Ukraine.

Some parts of Canada and the US didn't want to be swapped, but that doesn't mean either country can simply take back its former territory. Most European countries have territory that once belonged to someone else and didn't want change hands. Of course, you don't realize that percentage that would want to be part Ukraine would have been much higher if Crimea hadn't been ethnically cleansed of groups such as the Tartars with Russians replacing them. I'm not sure how many times I mentioned before the 97% result of the referendum was obvious fraud;  that would mean the Tartars who had just fled Russia to Crimea would have had to voted to be in Russian again.

The Right Sector is nothing but a strawman to attack the Ukrainian government. A recall election of failed Russian backed president would have been preferable, but we can't go back and rewrite history and can only go forward and deal with the current situation. The current situation is Russian military combating Ukrainian troops in the east. The probable plan is to split Ukraine in two creating a buffer state between western learning and future NATO member Ukraine and Russia, hence Russian talk of Novorussia. If Ukraine is split or not, Russia's actions indicate it needs to join NATO. You say Russia has no intention of action in the Baltic states, Of course not, because from here it looks like Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania being in NATO is stopping that from happening. Even Putin the Magnificent does not want to start WW III, which pulling this shit in NATO countries would cause.

Quote from: rjhowie on 2015-03-17, 02:17:24

As for the Crimea it went back to where it belonged and fine Sanguinemoon should know it as it never wanted to be dumped into Ukraine.

  the 97% result of the referendum was obvious fraud; 

Have a care, sir.
Putin has said many times that it is not a fraud.

As a long time Soviet KGB man, his honesty and integrity are second to none. As such, I'm so relieved by his words :yes:

I'm not sure how many times I mentioned before the 97% result of the referendum was obvious fraud;  that would mean the Tartars who had just fled Russia to Crimea would have had to voted to be in Russian again.

Indeed.
You're endlessly repeating the same twisted spin like a nasty spam robot.
Once again for refreshing your short memory:
The 97% are the result after counting the ballot papers. It represents the will of those who took part at the referendum.
Tartars or at least most of them did boycott the ballots as recommended by their leader. However the Tartars were a minority so they couldn't influence the outcome of the ballots anyway.
Those of you who are regretting that Crimea was exempted from the bloodshed the Donetsk region is facing, will have to get over this.

You're silly, Krake. Did you really not understand the main purpose of that was post to illustrate that Howie's claim Crimea didn't want to be handed over to Ukraine can only possibly true because the Soviet Union forced the Tartars out. It would be a little like America forcing Canadians out of former US territory that now belongs to Canada and moving Americans in by droves than saying that area wants to be part of America. But to truly copy Russia, we would need to unmarked soldiers that everyone knows are America anyway occupying the area. Than have a referendum with our soldiers guarding the polling places :yes: When we get 97 percent of the vote, we can go ahead an annex the territory :yes: :yes: I'll write letters to Obama and Congress encouraging them to chew up Canadian territory using the Putin method. I'm sure you'd agree since there's nothing wrong with Russia doing that Crimea :yes: :yes: :yes:

Oh dear the brained propaganda is still working.

Just look what happened in the great old US of A in the 19th century when States were not content where they were and tried to break away. Kind of tells you something Sanguinemoon. And that swipe at Putin being ex-KGB - so what? Your own Gestapo agencies and there are more of them in America than any other land may I remind has included murders by them. But that is okay of course as principles in America mean sod allot is just a word for any cover up matter. You lot destabilise a country if it does not convert to what you and your corporate controllers want as a system. If you don't toy will either get sanctions or you will be invaded with the end game being a mess left behind. These thing you suitably ignore.  Waffle about the tartrs when you compare to what you did against the red indian people. Lied, misused and persecuted and for heaven's sake don't be a black in America!

Now your government are moaning about the BRIC countries especially China (woo-hoo that socialist lot who you are in hock too, haha!)and the gradual move to them because you think you have some divine right to rule everywhere. Instead of the rubbish about Russia you could spend time dealing with all the lack of rights, interference in private lives, massive poverty in the land of the free and home of the brave (groan). The vast majority of Crimeans speak Russian their leanings are there and the fact they were dumped where they did not want by a dictatorship means nothing to you unless a thing is under US control. Your pals in Kiev who illegally destroyed an election, included Nazis in the government system and content to have them in the National Guard are fine? What a sick thought and beyond the pale of anything sensible.

Tell you what. Stop interfering with countries, having hundreds of bases to protect your financial interests (controlled by the Wall street barons), get off with this damn nonsense of "having to be the world's policeman." You even give arms to dangerous cliques in Syria and now to your own Secretary of state has had to acknowledge that. So you do make things worse in the world. Kiev didn't care a damn about the large areas where Russian was the first language and had decided to remove it's official standing so what does that tell those millions? Crimea is back where it wants to be and good for them succeeding. And as pointed out better pensions, welfare, system cohesion to a Kiev government that froze pensions, welfare, bank accounts, etc of innocent people.

Crimea will not return to Kiev now through Kiev's intransigent stupidity encouraged by you lot the east may be lost. The sooner your trillions of debt collapses the place the better in the long run the world will be. So good on the BRIC as it will be a future direction including well for Russia. Europe will never get back all what they have lost in agricultural sales to Russia or industry. The screaming at russia is frustration as it like China are places you cannot influence or control so good for them and especially the bear. Well done Putin!

You're silly, Krake. Did you really not understand the main purpose of that was post to illustrate that Howie's claim Crimea didn't want to be handed over to Ukraine can only possibly true because the Soviet Union forced the Tartars out. It would be a little like America forcing Canadians out of former US territory

Well  Mr smart-ass,
the Crimean Khanate was defeated and became part of Russia in 1783.
Do you know what your ancestral were doing at that time?

We (the US) might just have to take on Canada.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/27/a-haven-for-puffins-tranquil-island-off-nova-scotia-is-a-rare-piece-of-disputed-territory-between-canada-and-the-u-s/ (http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/27/a-haven-for-puffins-tranquil-island-off-nova-scotia-is-a-rare-piece-of-disputed-territory-between-canada-and-the-u-s/)

But every July 4th, Barna Norton, a crusty old sea captain out of Jonesport, Me., used to crank up his vessel, The Chief, and chug towards the island, a 20-acre lump of rock where the Bay of Fundy meets the Gulf of Maine. He would barge ashore with a large golf umbrella emblazoned with an American flag and plant it in front of a Parks Canada sign identifying the island as a Canadian Coast Guard facility.

“Once again, in front of this sign,’’ he would say, ‘‘I declare that this island belongs to the United States.”
Mr. Norton died eight years ago. But his cause remains. It, and North Rock, another nearby chunk of rock, are the only two pieces of disputed territory between Canada and the United States.

Recently I read a book (whose title and author I can't remember), making a convincing prophesy that the increasingly Mexicanised states of the U.S. would eventually vote to secede and become part of Mexico.

Good luck on that seceders.
http://www.vocativ.com/usa/us-politics/texas-secession/ (http://www.vocativ.com/usa/us-politics/texas-secession/)

Back to Putin and Kiev. Yep, that's Vlad in Hitler mode.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAJHNaLW8AAjjZ6.jpg)

Trouble is you have no chance of secession in th ex-colonies at all. And as for this childish constant guff about Putin being morphed into a Hitler that really is ironic. I say that as West Ukraine was a Nazi traitor during WW2 and they served in Hitler's SS. They still have parades to remember the wonderful Ukrainian Nazi leader and thius is the tradition you are supporting?? The way Biden waffled on Kiev and that head-banger McClain going over there and giving the sensible world a laugh tells you something about US thinking. So supporting a regime today with Nazi involvement says much about what passes for US political principles. In a word you are being, well....daft.

I say that as West Ukraine was a Nazi traitor during WW2 and they served in Hitler's SS.

And the UK was one of the world's most aggressive and brutal colonial powers.

Last week, the British government finalized an out-of-court settlement with thousands of Kenyans who were tortured in detention camps during the end of the British colonial reign. The historic apology — and the unprecedented settlement — has been years in the making.

http://www.npr.org/2013/06/09/189968998/britain-apologizes-for-colonial-era-torture-of-kenyan-rebels (http://www.npr.org/2013/06/09/189968998/britain-apologizes-for-colonial-era-torture-of-kenyan-rebels)
You can listen to a radio report here...
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=189968998&m=190141005 (http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=189968998&m=190141005)

Now there is a wonderful example of a brass neck! The USA imperial network can well outdo anything prior to it. And every brutal invasion or domination it has done has left a mess time after time. As I once said the British Commonwealth says something else that jimbro's mindset dances by. All those colonies now part of that system. The countries America bosses or controls through money and corporate power would never produce any like that. When it comes to hypocrisy and words like democracy, rights, democracy the "h" word is only amplified.

The US led anti-Russia guff is there because it is a country that the US whether corporate money-wise or militarily cannot control. That situation puts you at the top of the propaganda list for lies, mind control and much else on the negative. Just look how even after two centuries proper rights and freedoms in the States were dragging. You would think that the brain dead over the pond thought the USSR still existed!  Now the US has a military contingent in the Baltic States and getting militarily chummy with them, Poland, Bulgaria, Romania. Odd that they are all right back up beside Russia, eh? At the same time digging at Russia for doing military exercises in it's own vast country. Talk about a stupid load of nonsense!

With tens of millions of poor, legions losing homes, trillions in debt, massive racial problems and people suffering inside it's own Borders being electronically spied on, rights infringed, the US of A would be regarded more if it dealt with it's own lack over well past two centuries when it set down those things in that constitution. So having fails over two centuries Russia is the bad guy for not succeeding in everything in a very short space of time?? Russia will continue to move in the right direction and will help itself by maintaining it's own life without interference from the world's most failed principled corner!

Odd that they are all right back up beside Russia, eh?

Or maybe those counties saw they still needed bigger friends as protection against Russia. Turns out they were right. You have no idea how bad most Americans wanted the USSR to be truly dead. A new era of peace and prosperity for North America and Europe, the "peace dividend" from not having to spend so much on the military. But now Putin, that relic of the called Cold War, seems hellbent on making that impossible. America wanted to move on from the Cold War, not relive it.  You have this bizarre notion that is about Russia standing alone against "American "corporates", despite what actually happened.

You have this bizarre notion that is about Russia standing alone against "American "corporates", despite what actually happened.

I don't understand Rj's adulation of our Soviet friend.
But let's not forget Putin's oligarch buddies and his cottage in Spain.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.agent4stars.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fputin-LAzagaleta-634x450.jpg&hash=477520b9e825719d56eac2c574d34321" rel="cached" data-hash="477520b9e825719d56eac2c574d34321" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.agent4stars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/putin-LAzagaleta-634x450.jpg)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/putins-way/ (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/putins-way/)

America wanted to move on from the Cold War, not relive it.

For sure and pigs can fly.

Wonder what the invasion of Iraq had to do with the Cold War?

Wonder what you know about the Brzezinski Doctrine?
Wonder what you know about Stratfor, the private/shadow CIA and its doctrine?
Both doctrines are pretty much the same.
For the first you can easily find several references on the Internet.
For the latter, I'll be so kind to give you a helping hand: link (http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/16/4571)

The Pentagon is calling now for more US nukes stationed in Europe.
Whom should they protect??? Europe???
After setting up the fire in the Middle East and its neighborhood, who should come next???

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

For sure and pigs can fly.

Indeed they can!
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi303.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn132%2Faivo12%2FFlyingPigs-1.gif&hash=7cfde13ee1c8a0cd642aad4f32e8c7c4" rel="cached" data-hash="7cfde13ee1c8a0cd642aad4f32e8c7c4" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn132/aivo12/FlyingPigs-1.gif)
The nuke business is a silly reaction to Crimea and creepy goings-on in eastern Ukraine.
No major power is going to use nuclear weapons, and any lesser fool (N. Korea?) would be suicidal.

What's your reaction to events in Ukraine?

The nuke business is a silly reaction to Crimea and creepy goings-on in eastern Ukraine.

A silly reaction of the Pentagon to Crimea and creepy goings-on in eastern Ukraine?
It is rather an opportunity after 'successful' meddling.
Did you really expect any Russian president to patiently watch Crimea turning into an US military naval base?

No major power is going to use nuclear weapons,

Europe would become a convenient buffer zone to be sacrificed in case of a worst case scenario.
What other sense would make even more US nukes on European ground? Doesn't the UK and France have already enough nukes?
The only difference, those nukes are not (yet) under US command/control.

And now something rather funny, you have little chance to read about in your media: Czechs Warned Not to Throw Tomatoes at US Army Convoy (http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/20/4764)

You've got the wrong person. I'm sick of US meddling in too many places. Europe doesn't need us, Afghanistan doesn't need us, the Japanese don't need us...you get the picture.

What I was talking about is the reaction of our government to things that aren't our business. It needs to stop.
======================
If you want something that will make your head spin, try this on for size.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/opinion/imagine-president-ted-cruz.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/opinion/imagine-president-ted-cruz.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region)
======================
There are 53,766 US troops in Germany. Merkel needs to give them exit visas.

Oh Heavens that link is frightening and can only hope that common sense and reasonable thinking prevails.

Howie, just because we're critical of Russia's actions doesn't mean we have to support every one of America's. It's almost as if Krake is asking me to defend wars that I attended demonstrations AGAINST just to distract from what's happening now. Frankly that man know nothing about America or its people. If he did, he'd have understood long ago how unpopular the wars in Afghanistan is and how the people turned against the one in Iraq.

At the end of the day, bringing up America's sins doesn't negate what Putin's Russia is doing now in Ukraine. They seized control of Crimea. For Howie, the fact that it was part of Russia until more then half a century ago doesn't change that it was sovereign Ukrainian territory. Russian troops and tanks have been caught in fighting in Ukraine. To this, Howie will tell us those are volunteers. Yes, as a result of a call for volunteers. The troops of any country are not allowed to self-deploy where they please. The American response to this was sanctions, which now appear to be crippling the Russian economy; but not American troops in Ukraine. Regardless of what the US did in the past, what's happening now is Russian aggression.

Some would attempt to defend Russia by saying this a reaction against Nato expansion. If so, it's a replay of what happened after WWII when the Soviet Union created buffer states between itself and western Europe. Therefore, this defense actually supports the idea Putin is trying to split Ukraine in two. You have an ex-Soviet man employing Soviet modus operandi. Obviously, Putin denies this. If this is the case or not doesn't change that this is Russian aggression, and not American.

Sang, why do you spend time and effort answering to two wind-up slogan chanters?
Just curious.

There are 53,766 US troops in Germany. Merkel needs to give them exit visas.

Last time the US closed some bases in .de there was a freakout - the local economies would lose half their customers ( these bases tend to be in rural areas, call it unofficial foreign aid ). Same happened when the german military said it would close some of their own. There would probably be much rejoicing if the US military got out of the Frankfurt airport though, it's getting kinda crowded. But then again, that's probably the one they would keep the longest.

Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2015-03-23, 01:50:52

America wanted to move on from the Cold War, not relive it.

For sure and pigs can fly.

Well, he said "wanted". Then corporate welfare for the military-industrial complex kicked in.

Howie, just because we're critical of Russia's actions doesn't mean we have to support every one of America's.

You're either with the Empire or against the Empire, dammit! :irked:

Sang, why do you spend time and effort answering to two wind-up slogan chanters?
Just curious.

I'll second that.

Last time the US closed some bases in .de there was a freakout - the local economies would lose half their customers ( these bases tend to be in rural areas, call it unofficial foreign aid ).

I have a solution. We close the bases, thereby saving a ton of money and then send Euros to the local areas. Everybody wins!

Last time the US closed some bases in .de there was a freakout - the local economies would lose half their customers ( these bases tend to be in rural areas, call it unofficial foreign aid ).

Are you sure that 'foreign aid' is the right term?
AFAIK those military bases are financed with our money.

I have a solution. We close the bases, thereby saving a ton of money and then send Euros to the local areas. Everybody wins!

Unfortunately your solution can't work. See above.
However there would be an even better solution. You take your nukes and your soldiers home. You can keeep the money you save (in case you save some).
We would even contribute to the transportation costs.
The money we are spending now for your military bases will be invested in those areas.

AFAIK those military bases are financed with our money.

How much of it?

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/04/17/report-us-paying-billions-more-for-military-bases-overseas-despite-troop-reductions/

WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States is footing more of the bill for overseas bases in Germany, Japan and South Korea even as the military reduces the number of American troops in Europe and strategically repositions forces in Asia, a congressional report says.
The exhaustive, yearlong investigation by the Senate Armed Services Committee focused on costs and burden-sharing as the United States spends more than $10 billion a year to back up the U.S. military presence overseas, with 70 percent of the amount expended in the three nations. The figure does not include military personnel costs.

I need you provide a breakdown of the cost sharing for the bases to show you're not just this from some tinfoil hat anti-American site. Saying Germany pays for American bases implies Germany pays the majority of the costs, but it's slightly clever phrasing that still leaves open the possibility that the US 99 percent of it. Since you're easily confused, I'm not saying that's the case but that wording makes that a possibility.

You're either with the Empire or against the Empire, dammit!  :irked:

That's true. I need to strongly advocate increased military spending and more foreign interventions and keeping nations under American occupation, despite a lifetime of arguing against such things, huh? :left: Being critical of Putin clearly means being uncritical of America. America is an easy target to bash: why on Earth did President Bush start a war in Afghanistan? The invasion of Iraq after 9/11 was senseless and created the conditions that allow groups such as ISIS to flourish. Saddam was bastard, but his Iraq could have handled it; the far weaker present day Iraq lacks the military capability to do so. Before Crimea and the Russian presence in Ukraine, further Nato expansion was questionable at best. However, Krake and Howie's America bashing betrays the weakness of their Pro-Russian stance.

It's almost unintelligent to deny Russia's meddling in Ukraine at this point, with meddling being an extreme euphemism. Further, and I know Krake will bring this up a strawman, but a 97% result in any election is auto-bullshit and only happens in countries or regions where elections are not free. Mayor Goodman is up for re-election and I'm inclined to vote for her, but if she got results like that I'd be among the voices screaming "election fraud!" Get it Krake and Howie? Calling fraud on that referendum isn't about being against Russia. At the end of the day, it's common sense and seeing the countries that go get results like that (think North Korea, etc.)

Howie rants about American "corporates." The corporates want good American/Russian relations in order to open up the Russian market. Economically, it would benefit both countries. The last thing the "corporates" want and need is sanctions against Russia. This primitive idea that another country must grow at the expense of another is simply not the case. Rising tides lifting all boats and all that.

Tt92 questions why I bother and mjmsprt40 agrees. I fear they're right. What will be the response? Another anti-American rant? Scanning my words for a strawman instead of being capable of discussing the situation?

Kind of loses the plot when an American accuses some other country of meddling.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-bombers-spark-nato-scramble-protest-baltic-230616864.html

Vilnius (AFP) - NATO jets were scrambled Tuesday to escort Russian fighters and nuclear-capable bombers flying near the Baltic states and Sweden with their transponders switched off, sparking protests over the danger they posed to civil aviation

Lithuania's defence ministry spokeswoman Asta Galdikaite said NATO air policing aircraft identified two Tu-22 type bombers and two SU-27 jets. The Swedish military also confirmed the aircraft showed up on their ground radar.

"The flights conducted with switched-off on-board transponders are among other things a risk to civil aviation as such flights are not visible on civil air traffic control radars," she told AFP.

I doubt Putin's so stupid that he'll bomb the Baltics, but why do things like this keep happening?

It gets even better:

Lithuania's President Dalia Grybauskaite said last week that Russia sent nuclear-capable Iskander missiles to Kaliningrad, which could "reach even Berlin" .

....

Fortunately for Howie and Krake, there's a way to point the finger at America and NATO

US forces deployed a battery of Patriot surface-to-air missiles near the Polish capital Warsaw this weekend as part of ongoing drills.

NATO is also countering Moscow's moves by deploying more aircraft, ships and personnel for exercises on its eastern flank.

Quote from: krake on 2015-03-24, 17:30:32

AFAIK those military bases are financed with our money.

How much of it?
I need you provide a breakdown of the cost sharing for the bases to show you're not just this from some tinfoil hat anti-American site.

Our government keeps quiet as it always did about the costs of financing US military bases. Guess why???

However, there have been some documents published abroad in the past. The original sources have been deleted but there are still some copies floating around.

Each year, Germany contributes nearly $1 billion to the upkeep of U.S. bases in Germany (Council on Foreign Relations, 2003) PDF (http://fluglaerm-kl.de/dl/American_bases_in_Germany_fs.pdf)

And even today, Germany continues to contribute nearly $1 billion each year to the maintenance of U.S. bases. (PDF (http://fluglaerm-kl.de/dl/American_bases_in_Germany_relaunch.pdf), 2008)

The numbers above might represent only the tip of the iceberg!

According to the German Peace Council, German contributions to US military bases were $1.89 billions. (PDF in German language (http://www.deutscher-friedensrat.de/pdf/FremdeBaseniD.pdf), 2007)

While the numbers of US troops has been shortened at some point, our costs didn't. They have even increased.

Whereas the ugly Russians have quit their military bases in Eastern Germany and took their troops home, our dear American friends are still sitting here with their nukes.
Only resemblance, the first were as beloved among the Germans as the latter are...

Saying Germany pays for American bases implies Germany pays the majority of the costs, but it's slightly clever phrasing that still leaves open the possibility that the US 99 percent of it.

You still don't get it. Do you?

1%, 10%, 30% or 50% - we simply don't want to pay for and get involved in your stupid wars anymore. Therefore it should be 0%.
If you want world domination, please do it on your own!

Imagine!
Foreign troops and military bases operated by a foreign state on US gound, pretending that they are protecting the US from an Iranian, or North Korean, or Russian, or whatever kind of takeover.
Wonder if you can!

1%, 10%, 30% or 50% - we simply don't want to pay for and get involved in your stupid wars anymore. Therefore it should be 0%.
If you want world domination, please do it on your own!

Imagine!
Foreign troops and military bases operated by a foreign state on US gound, pretending that they are protecting the US from an Iranian, or North Korean, or Russian, or whatever kind of takeover.
Wonder if you can!

KICK US THE FRICK OUT FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

With the U.S. F-35 Joint Strike Fighter still in limbo over reliability problems, Russian President Vladimir Putin’s administration on Monday said it would begin regular production of its newest fighter jet, the T-50, next year.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/03/24/US-F-35-Grounded-Putin-s-New-Jet-Beats-Us-Hands-Down (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/03/24/US-F-35-Grounded-Putin-s-New-Jet-Beats-Us-Hands-Down)
Damned Putin!
KICK US THE FRICK OUT FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!

1%, 10%, 30% or 50% - we simply don't want to pay for and get involved in your stupid wars anymore

Take a deep breath and count to three to calm yourself. Why are you having a hissy fit? It's just that I smelled bullshit in the phrasing and I was right and the phrasing is probably what you picked up from a propaganda site.  Unless the phrasing includes a modifier, such "total" or "complete" or "the majority" etc, it usually means somebody is trying to mislead you. That's especially the case if the dubious source doesn't give figures.

If you want world domination, please do it on your own!

I don't represent all of America any more than you represent all of Germany. But I can tell you this, part of the equation that led to Obama's election and re-election was the promise of removing troops from the Middle East and other places. We're still waiting in frustration. Most Americans are not neocon idiots that fantasize about an American empire spanning the globe any more than you want one.

Unfortunately, right now we have Russia in Ukraine and flying provocatively close to the Baltics, Britain, Portugal and probably more nations that would crumble in a week on their own under the onslaught of the the Russian military. What exactly is Russia doing? Testing their defenses? So Putin makes conditions impossible to just pick up and leave. Putin has proven himself a serial liar: "we don't have troops in Crimea" , "We don't have troops in Ukraine." Welcome to the 21st century, Vlad. Here we can disprove your lies and propaganda in one day, if that.

But I digress. You speak of "my" desire for world domination. Who is again that annexed another country's territory? Who's arming one side of the Ukrainian conflict and sending troops and who isn't? Bush did start non-sensible wars for regime change in Afghanistan and Iraq and the sway of the previously mentioned neocons. The current president didn't try to overthrow any country, but did bomb terrorists. The current policy is not to dominate the world. Regardless if a Democrat or Republican, the American people won't have that any more than you would. (in fact, a lot of Republicans seem obsessed with idiocy such if a baker should make a cake for a gay couple or not and other non-Earth shattering issues :p)

1%, 10%, 30% or 50% - we simply don't want to pay for and get involved in your stupid wars anymore. Therefore it should be 0%.
If you want world domination, please do it on your own!

:D
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.c.photoshelter.com%2Fimg-get%2FI0000TjF2kOw8Ei8%2Fs%2F900%2F720%2FWW2-Cartoons-Punch-Magazine-Bernard-Partridge-1941-07-16-47.jpg&hash=9698983e8679cc87929f86ef73c99540" rel="cached" data-hash="9698983e8679cc87929f86ef73c99540" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000TjF2kOw8Ei8/s/900/720/WW2-Cartoons-Punch-Magazine-Bernard-Partridge-1941-07-16-47.jpg)

It's just that I smelled bullshit in the phrasing and I was right and the phrasing is probably what you picked up from a propaganda site.

Next time you smell bullshit you should open the window.
The propaganda site you are referring to is the homepage of the German embassy in the USA. That's where the first two PDFs were from.
Did you even bother to look at them? Never mind, with your intelligence it would be futile anyway.

But I can tell you this, part of the equation that led to Obama's election and re-election was the promise of removing troops from the Middle East and other places.

By other places you mean from all over the world?
Do you know by any chance what equation led to the re-election of GW Bush?
Stay tuned for the next election and its equation. :)

Americans are not neocon idiots that fantasize about an American empire spanning the globe any more than you want one.

Regardless what Americans fantasize about, the American empire spanning the globe is already reality.
US military bases around the globe are just welfare institutions. Aren't they?

Unfortunately, right now we have Russia in Ukraine and flying provocatively close to the Baltics, Britain, Portugal and probably more nations that would crumble in a week on their own under the onslaught of the the Russian military.

Not even senator McCain could have said it better, except this here is not the US senate and you aren't McCain to spread that kind of BS.

So Putin makes conditions impossible to just pick up and leave.

Indeed, you have to throw more gasoline into the fire first. Europe doesn't burn yet at your like. "Fuck the EU."
BTW, is Putin all over the world? You could choose among different continents for starting to leave. Besides, you've started to build up your military bases around the globe long time ago when nobody knew about the existence of a Vladimir Putin.

Who is again that annexed another country's territory?

Do you mean Guantanamo Bay? It must be something that belonged to the USA for centuries. Nice naval base you have there.

In case you mean Crimea, did you expect Russia to watch how Crimea turns into an US military naval base after the US staged putsch? If so you must feel deeply disappointed like your government is.
As for the Crimeans, it was their wish to become 'annexed'.

The current policy is not to dominate the world. Regardless if a Democrat or Republican,...

   
Wonder if you're trying to fool me or you're trying to fool yourself. However it doesn't make any difference.
Regardless if with a Democrat or Republican president: The Unwritten American Rules of the Road (http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175960/)

Feel free to dismiss the above article as anti-American propaganda as you do with anything that isn't at your like. :D

It's the funniest doggone thing. I seem to recall that bears are notoriously hard to evict once they set up camp in your living room. Last time a bear moved in uninvited, it took several decades to get the bear to leave--- and he's still eyeing the old campsite with an idea of moving back in when nobody notices.

I wonder. If the United States were to unilaterally decide that we've had enough, pull ALL of our boys home from Europe and anywhere else we've got foreign bases for that matter, and concentrate on beefing up a serious home defense--- how long would it take for a certain bear to move in. How long after that would it take for certain posters--- we won't mention any names, will we--to ask that somebody PLEASE come in and save them from this bear--- provided the bear lets them ask of course? I wonder if we should do anything about it next time--- or should we just stay home and let them figure this out for themselves.

Now that would be the most wisest thing you have ever ventured mjsmsprt40 although you are still in truth convinced the world needs your boots and Wall Streeters running the planet! May i remind when you talk about the bases you have - they number in hundreds. Very often when you "sort out" a country there is a mess left behind so it should cajole you into reality and get home. By all means have a strong defence but keep your military noses out of elsewhere. You helped to create terrorism and you have also helped create terrorists. Instead it would not be selfish to think of the tens of millions of poor over the pond the increasing homesless and the lack of any great concern about them. Instead the country thinks it can prove an imperial agenda that will outlast all previous such systems.

You would get more of an in-depth respect and pat on the back if you looked after your own loyal citizenry and many of your monied folk almost look on them as almost being anto-American (!). Modern shades of McCarthy.In going in a more inside depth more Americans would feel better and the dream would be more of a good reality for more in the country. All that would take away the bashing that is moaned about and is so easy due to the hypocrisy of those that lead. I would be all for the internal direction and applaud such a direction.

The propaganda site you are referring to is the homepage of the German embassy in the USA.

From your post.

Each year, Germany contributes nearly $1 billion to the upkeep of U.S. bases in Germany (Council on Foreign Relations, 2003) PDF

And even today, Germany continues to contribute nearly $1 billion each year to the maintenance of U.S. bases

Oh, so it's you using the numbers for crude propaganda purposes. No, I didn't bother to check the links because I'm so used to linking to propaganda sites. Kudos in finally using a real sites for once. Regardless, it doesn't back your claim that Germany pays for the bases, since the US still pays the vast majority. Funny how you can question my intelligent when you overlooked my main point.

I wonder. If the United States were to unilaterally decide that we've had enough, pull ALL of our boys home from Europe and anywhere else we've got foreign bases for that matter, and concentrate on beefing up a serious home defense--- how long would it take for a certain bear to move in

It will take some years, but it's almost inevitable. There's already a pattern behavior going. Annex Crimea on the grounds that it has Russian ethnic majority, albeit a rapidly decreasing one. Send troops and tanks to the eastern Ukraine, despite the fact the ethnic Russians started the war. Let's not forget about Georgia. By the way, Krake, by occupying those regions in Georgia, Russia is violating the cease fire. Germany is probably safe, but I wonder how many areas of the Baltics and Poland have Russian majorities.

As for the Crimeans, it was their wish to become 'annexed'.

Why the quotes? What happened is the literal definition of the word. We actually don't know if they wanted to be annexed to Russia or not because the voting was so obviously fraudulent. I know you're tired of me saying this, but 97 percent of any election going one way is North Korea style election fraud.

In case you mean Crimea, did you expect Russia to watch how Crimea turns into an US military naval base after the US staged putsch?

Interesting. That's tantamount to an admission that Russia did take it for strategic purposes. But who were we allegedly going to throw a putsch against? Russia? Now that's just silly.

Putin's Russia may well make it possible for our British posters to hop in a car and visit our American posters with a stopover in western Ukraine and Crimea. Can't wait until I can hop in my car and drive across Putin's Bridge to Siberia alongside Russian tanks headed to Alaska.

Russia has unveiled ambitious plans to build a superhighway that, in theory, could make it possible to drive from London on one end to New York on the other.

According to a report by The Siberian Times, the head of Russian Railways is asking the government to seriously consider his project dubbed the Trans-Eurasian Belt Development, the first modern transportation corridor that would link up the Pacific to the Atlantic Ocean.

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-superhighway-could-connect-london-york-172453750.html (http://news.yahoo.com/russian-superhighway-could-connect-london-york-172453750.html)

I wonder. If the United States were to unilaterally decide that we've had enough, pull ALL of our boys home from Europe and anywhere else we've got foreign bases for that matter, and concentrate on beefing up a serious home defense--- how long would it take for a certain bear to move in. How long after that would it take for certain posters--- we won't mention any names, will we--to ask that somebody PLEASE come in and save them from this bear--- provided the bear lets them ask of course? I wonder if we should do anything about it next time--- or should we just stay home and let them figure this out for themselves.

These prospective bear caves would still be NATO members, so from the bear's perspective not a whole lot would change.

so from the bear's perspective not a whole lot would change

On thing would. The eagle couldn't fly in as quickly to respond to what the bear's doing. But I wonder what it would mean for small fraction of the costs of the American bases that Germany and other countries pay that Krake complains about. The German military would keep at least the major ones of strategic importance,  but now would be paying the entire costs.  Folks like him don't seem to understand that the European get to spend so little of their GDP on the military because America has to spend so much. Get it Krake? America leave, Germany pays more not less. Even if they didn't take over the old American military bases, they'd still have to beef of the the military  especially in the face of Russia's recent actions.

The eagle couldn't fly in as quickly to respond to what the bear's doing.

I've corrected your above statement:
"The eagle couldn't fly in as quick to start wars in breach with international law like it did e.g. in Iraq."

America leave, Germany pays more not less. Even if they didn't take over the old American military bases, they'd still have to beef of the the military  especially in the face of Russia's recent actions.

Nobody is afraid of Russia here. Are you really so stupid or perverse to claim that US bases are here to protect Germany from Russia?
They were build up from the occupying powers after WWII the same way the Soviets build up theirs in Eastern Germany.
Only difference, the Soviet ones are now history whereas yours are still here and some of them get enhanced.
You are probably aware that US bases are military facilities Germany has absolute no control over. Even the troops are under foreign/US jurisdiction.
What are US nukes stationed here good for? Are they also to protect Germany from Putin? Instead of taking them home the US is going to replace them with new ones. Do you really think that one single sane German feels more secure with those nukes? Are you really so stupid to think that they are for protecting Germans and we are keen to turn our homes into a moonscape???

If Poland and some Baltic states are seeking for US protection, we would be glad to help moving the US troops together with their espionage establishments and nukes from here to there.
We don't need them here. Are you indeed such of a half-brained that you can't understand it?

Quote from: Macallan on 2015-03-28, 01:28:22

so from the bear's perspective not a whole lot would change

On thing would. The eagle couldn't fly in as quickly to respond to what the bear's doing.

Hardly matters, the bear would be in for way more ass kicking than he can afford, and he knows it.

But I wonder what it would mean for small fraction of the costs of the American bases that Germany and other countries pay that Krake complains about. The German military would keep at least the major ones of strategic importance,  but now would be paying the entire costs.  Folks like him don't seem to understand that the European get to spend so little of their GDP on the military because America has to spend so much.

Has to? Who or what makes the US spend ridiculous amounts of money on its military?
And those US bases don't have much to do with defending Europe against the evil russians anymore anyway. Half are run by the NSA, the rest is logistics for operations elsewhere.

Get it Krake? America leave, Germany pays more not less.

Do you seriously think those american bases are what keeps russia from invading .de? Have you lost your mind? :left:

Do you seriously think those american bases are what keeps russia from invading .de? Have you lost your mind?  :left:

Of course not. I thought I even said so a couple posts up :left:

Krake, you're tiresome as Rjhowie. You put words in my mouth and lambaste the US to avoid talking about the actual topic of this thread. Now you're talking gibberish about Germany being reduced to a moonscape because of some nuclear weapons upgrades :rolleyes:

Russia would get a kicking? Hah, nice touch of unmeant humour with that one. Russia has NO interest in invading Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, etc. It is a load of codswallop. Even if they wanted to why is uot okay for America to stomp about dishing out it? Kind of odd principle there. The matter of the Latvian Foreign Minister is ignored. Once again I have to say it is all about West or especially the USA wanting to be the one that controls everything in the world. All the mind blowing propaganda being shouted out would be so damn funny if it wasn't so stupid. It is all about DC wanting supremacy and if you don't accept it you can be assured that the propaganda machine will brain the dead brains into this daft, pointless and ignorant surge on Russia.

America has done much in the world to create so much destabilisation and the rise of terrrism - heavens, it has even helped arm terror fiends. It should get the deuce out of everywhere and reduce the problem. There is no way that Russia can be dealt with militarily so let's not get carried away on that one. Russia is quite correct to increase it's military the way that out of date nonsense thing NATO goes on. China has done the same due to US stupidity sending warships over near china on intimidation. The only way to get anywhere is by conferring as Russia is a proud country and will tolerate any John Wayne nonsense from the ex-colonies. Being a giant country it can do whatever military exercises it likes inside it's own border so the bear nigglers should bug off.

Putin's meddling has made it clear to the Ukrainians that their future lies with Europe, not with Russia. Ukraine is the heimat, so to speak, of the Eastern Slavs. Even before this conflict Ukraine's future laid with Europe, the "not with Russia" part lies squarely with the actions of the Russian government.

America has done much in the world to create so much destabilisation and the rise of terrrism - heavens, it has even helped arm terror fiends.

Speaking of terrrism, ......

Britain is facing fresh allegations of complicity in the killings of terrorism suspects by Kenyan death squads.

The claims come from members of Kenyan intelligence and special police units who say they carry out extrajudicial killings. They also say they have received training and intelligence from Britain’s military and other officials as part of their counter-terrorism efforts.

The members of these death squads say they have not turned whistleblowers because they believe the killings are wrong, but because they believe Kenya has little choice in the face of vicious Islamist insurgency.

The claims come in an al-Jazeera investigation programme to be broadcast on Monday.

One of those interviewed claimed Britain knew of the killings the Kenyan death squads carried out: “Once they give us the information, they know what they have told us it is ABCD: ‘Mr Jack’ is involved in ‘such and such’ a kind of activity. Tomorrow he’s no longer there. We have worked. Definitely the report that you gave us has been ‘worked on’.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/07/britain-accused-complicity-kenyan-death-squad-terrorism-suspect-killings (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/07/britain-accused-complicity-kenyan-death-squad-terrorism-suspect-killings)

No-one can beat the good ole US of A when it comes to terror junkies. Afghanistan come to mind as one very big example and others elsewhere. Neither can the USA stop stuff being quietly supplied in Syria that it is all in safe hands.

We have had one school in London where the number of would-be Jihadist idiots was in double figures and we are still getting them from the religion of the child molester.As much as i have enjoyed living here I am glad I will not be here later in this century because it will be a hell hole the way they are breeding.

Anyway on this thread I watched a column of US military vehicles processing along streets and what do you know, people were out with anti-US posters, etc objecting. NATO led by the wrld dictatorship is rattling noisily but it is being stupid and pried up by utterly stupid media stuff that rattles out as well. After WW2 the States used the aftermath as an excuse to spread a corporate backed  military and other commercialism in the world. Mind you in pursuing this daft world policeman thinking is a bit like it's city policing. When you think of all the young men killed over those decades for the real controllers of the USA it is disgusting that they have been lost not for any indepth principles but the monied davancement of the rich and powerful. It is a crying shame how those ordinary people have been fooled. Shuffle the armour as you like but for a change you have someone who will not be intimidated by the No 1 hypocrisy cormer.

After WW2 the States used the aftermath as an excuse to spread a corporate backed  military and other commercialism in the world.

What in Allah's name is a corporate backed military? And terror junkies?

Back to Putin and others.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.moddb.com%2Fimages%2Fgroups%2F1%2F3%2F2933%2Fputin2016.jpg&hash=d22e463c7a3c95ccdc16589ac049c655" rel="cached" data-hash="d22e463c7a3c95ccdc16589ac049c655" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2933/putin2016.jpg)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffc04.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2Ff%2F2013%2F341%2F8%2Fa%2Fbritish_colonialism_by_poasterchild-d6x4e0k.png&hash=df8b0b07cbe9c8d9eebb15123c465381" rel="cached" data-hash="df8b0b07cbe9c8d9eebb15123c465381" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/341/8/a/british_colonialism_by_poasterchild-d6x4e0k.png)

Just shows that my consideration for intelligent ex-colonists has been a tad too generous. hhhm, maybe the government's concern over there is the inbuilt growing up mind-setting hypocrisy? Goodness imagine me missing the obvious!  As for me having a thingy about US bashing (it is so easy) and we get repeated same stuff about Putin. You need boy to get out more. At least i have new hiking boots and can get the fresh air!

When it comes to colonialism you just have to take a studied not of US jingoism and corporate/military empirical machinations to see the most example in history in the imperial corner. Tell you what new Southerner, try starting a global Commomwealth like someone else did and see what happens.  :P

 ???

tt92, anyone who's worked as an editor knows what RJ means: That he is incapable of coherent thought! He talks to himself (…no harm in that; I do it myself — hmm. Perhaps there is… :) ) His disability to write using the tools of a grammar school education tells us much about how he comes by most of his opinions.
And yet he got a "certificate" in secondary school for his -what? (He doesn't say.) We pat kids on the head when they parrot our nostrums, don't we? :)

But perhaps he will claim a Medieval education! (Punctuation -even including space between the letters of printed words- was seldom used, back then.) If he makes the claim, I'll have to deflate it: He has little of what the trivium and quadrivium should have instilled in even the dullest of students!

I'd add, I do fear for the U.K., since Scotland has become an anchor to it — in modern times: The seas of what we have recently called geopolitics are not only affected by tides; they are at risk to typhoons and tsunamis!
If Howie is representative, there is little hope the kingdom will survive…

Of course, the idea that Howie is representative is ludicrous. :) He is (like me, I should add!) a crank! :)

Kind of amusing coming from a Yank Oakdale as your own government has been concerned about education for some time. My opinions are direct but seemingly too direct for softy you and the brain damaged clown from Aussie land, tt92. He does try to be haughty and perhaps just as well as he is incapable of doing anything in a debate or passing argument. Has anyone actually followed that mouthy numpty the down under Prime Minister? Just shows who can get to the top in that society so can expect idiocy here!

Could the media and political anti-Russian proganda get any more juvenile?

Greece's Prime Minstrel asks to visit Russia and is give the go ahead as he wanted to speak to President Putin. The economic shambles of Greece was NOT raised but the >London times along with other papers came out with the utterly ridiculous stuff that Russia was dividing Europe!  The Kremlin did NOT ask the PM to come but as usual anything for a stupid dig is the norm. And anyway Europe does not have to be divided from outside it has already in that state internally.Years and still in a mess.

Check out #1.

http://worthly.com/richest/politicians/five-richest-world-leaders/ (http://worthly.com/richest/politicians/five-richest-world-leaders/)

And the point is?

The usual Putin bashing.
This time it's not about Russian toilets at the Olympics but about Putin's wealth.

With an estimated net worth somewhere between $40 and $70 billion dollars,...

Between $40 and $70 billion? That's a very speculative estimate to say the least. :)
However when it comes to bashing , there are no limits: "Bill Browder, CEO of Hermitage Capital Management, estimates Putin’s net worth at $200 billion."

The Russian president stole billions from his country’s ...

Now we know who was thieving Russia. It weren't the oligarchs with excellent contacts to the West but the by then unknown Putin. :D

A guy has to put away a little something for retirement.

Yea that's very true jimbro and as there are 40% of Congress and 60% of Senators millionaires they are in the front.

The constant Russa bashing is infantile stuff. I just came across a news item that says the "incident" in Swedish waters was not Russian at all. We get this other guff about occasional Russian planes flying down the English Channel and I would remind that area is international waters. Odd how the US goes on especially about flights near borders when they have been doing that for decades themselves. Now we have the US ratcheting up the Ukraine situation militarily so maybe someone should tell the White House Ukraine is NOT in NATO. And anyway NATO is a thing from the past and simply used by America to get digs at Russia as they are frustrated they cannot control like other countries. The BBC the other night did an hour long programme on queers in the Russian Federation and made hay out of it. Yet just another attempt at bashing Russia but why did they not have a look at some African countries or Islam ones where you can be automatically jailed or executed for being queer. It is all as subtle as hit on the head with a hammer and so infantile. Well tough luck America you will never absorb Russia into your imperial corporate world so just keep starting wars somewhere else and maintain your tradtion since WW2.

Well said. I will never forgive America for starting WW2.

"The constant (**********) bashing is infantile stuff."
Fill the blank with the nation of your choice.

Australia and Aborigines treatment comes to mind and the mouthings from someone who doesn't want to say where his originality is from.....

"The constant (Scotland) bashing is infantile stuff."

Well that is due to non-Scots being infantile so a suitable comment.Just nodded to my wall picture of Nicholas 2nd which reminds me what happens when you are too easy or not up to things.

Well that is due to non-Scots being infantile so a suitable comment.Just nodded to my wall picture of Nicholas 2nd...

...and Rasputin...
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa4%2FRasputin_pt.jpg%2F220px-Rasputin_pt.jpg&hash=b30a27d7e2ab6305590a0c9fc7cd50dd" rel="cached" data-hash="b30a27d7e2ab6305590a0c9fc7cd50dd" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a4/Rasputin_pt.jpg/220px-Rasputin_pt.jpg)
...and...
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fbritishmonarchistfoundation.org.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Fuk_queen.jpg&hash=2937338a5dd605f3bc29d0ed82884b38" rel="cached" data-hash="2937338a5dd605f3bc29d0ed82884b38" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://britishmonarchistfoundation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/uk_queen.jpg)

We love near royalty and actual royalty.

Rasputin wasn't a Royal and yep you find many ex-colonists have a fancy about Royals. Mind you Rasputin would have fitted in well with many US Republican Party people. The US President complimented the Russian oRoyal before World War one (!). Yep it can be a strange world at times.

Mind you Rasputin would have fitted in well with many US Republican Party people.

Only you to think such an aberration...  :lol:

Rasputin represents the opposite of any and every American.

Oh for goodness sake. Even someone stuck in a desperate financial mess like Portugal should be able to think properly! Rasputin was a danger, had greyc ell problems and caused misery. In generality terms the American Republicans can be allotted some interesting labels. They are hooped up nationalists (hidden behind the word 'patriotic'), cause misery, ignore the poor for being un-aAmerican, cause wars, deaths and control freaks. Yeah, Rasputin could fit in there nicely!

In generality terms the American Republicans can be allotted some interesting labels. They are hooped up nationalists (hidden behind the word 'patriotic'), cause misery, ignore the poor for being un-aAmerican, cause wars, deaths and control freaks. Yeah, Rasputin could fit in there nicely!

Rasputin was a mysterious character, really hard to kill, a mystic monk and simply took over half of Russian female nobility by way of an extreme animal sexuality and magnetism. Really an American Republican indeed...

Biker boy Putin. Where else but Russia?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearworld.com%2Fblog%2Fputin%2520the%2520biker.jpg&hash=a412e193c34c62d8376eb89d8e7881d1" rel="cached" data-hash="a412e193c34c62d8376eb89d8e7881d1" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.realclearworld.com/blog/putin%20the%20biker.jpg)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnewslanc.com%2Fimages%2Fslava_nightwolf7.png&hash=e4efbdc9138310b19a8e288b01e0ec51" rel="cached" data-hash="e4efbdc9138310b19a8e288b01e0ec51" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://newslanc.com/images/slava_nightwolf7.png)

Firstly Belfrager, Rasputin was NOT a monk. He was what people at the time and place regarded as a spiritual mystic. He had applied when younger to a monastery but didn't last long and thrown out so a wee mistake there from you.

And string, tut, tut. Putin did absolutely nothing wrong constitutionally and did the 2 terms entitled to then as is deemed stood down becoming Prime Minister and after a break stood again as President so a pointless, well point. The usual snidey digs at the Russian President show how the Western media has been brained by the politicians and illustrated in this thread. Now we get another pathetic sign misusing the man's love of motorbikes and whether some like it or not here he is more than a man of the people tan many leaders here in the West. I mean o say could any get 80% support?? And the blockades on trade and singling out of Russia has increased his stance.  You lot will never win on him.

Thanks for the reply to the OP, rjh.

I expect you are right about Putin not doing anything wrong constitutionally, but I doubt very much of what he did was in the spirit of the Russian constitution as it was intended, but who really knows.

But one has to judge those by their actions and the results they achieve and frankly under his reign as Russian Supremo he has managed to alienate the West and bring Russia back to a perilous economic state.

My take is that if he had Russia's interest as first priority he would step down and facilitate a fresh start.

Biker boy Putin. Where else but Russia?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realclearworld.com%2Fblog%2Fputin%2520the%2520biker.jpg&hash=a412e193c34c62d8376eb89d8e7881d1" rel="cached" data-hash="a412e193c34c62d8376eb89d8e7881d1" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.realclearworld.com/blog/putin%20the%20biker.jpg)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnewslanc.com%2Fimages%2Fslava_nightwolf7.png&hash=e4efbdc9138310b19a8e288b01e0ec51" rel="cached" data-hash="e4efbdc9138310b19a8e288b01e0ec51" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://newslanc.com/images/slava_nightwolf7.png)

Are trikes cool in Russia? Weenie needs to man up and lose the training wheels. :whistle:

Are trikes cool in Russia? Weenie needs to man up and lose the training wheels.  :whistle:

Man up? I'll show you man up! Nice tits, Vlad.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FB_LWMmiU8AEBe23.jpg&hash=8824ceb687bbf92430707fbdaabb68bb" rel="cached" data-hash="8824ceb687bbf92430707fbdaabb68bb" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_LWMmiU8AEBe23.jpg)
BTW, that's a weasel on a weasel on a woodpecker followed by a storm trooper.

Vlad is probably safe enough. Storm troopers still can't hit anything, even at point-blank range.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnewslanc.com%2Fimages%2Fslava_nightwolf7.png&hash=e4efbdc9138310b19a8e288b01e0ec51" rel="cached" data-hash="e4efbdc9138310b19a8e288b01e0ec51" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://newslanc.com/images/slava_nightwolf7.png)

I'm still preoccupied with this one.

Nary a chick to be seen. The guys riding out tandem on that trike better be gay. That's about as hardcore as grandma's cookies.

They just do it different at bike rallies around here.

Maybe they could use US Marines mjsmsprt40. Nah, maybe not they are "good" at killing families and weddings in Afghanistan ( :D). And jimbro don't you be jealous now at what Putin has.  Whilst musing on mjsmsprt40 I siled up at my Imperial Russian picture......

And jimbro don't you be jealous now at what Putin has.  Whilst musing on mjsmsprt40 I siled up at my Imperial Russian picture......

How does a person 'sile up'?
I  :heart: royalty, and apparently so does Vlad.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F39204000%2Fjpg%2F_39204222_qp.jpg&hash=2ecdf75920688e613e81e89841acd0e9" rel="cached" data-hash="2ecdf75920688e613e81e89841acd0e9" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39204000/jpg/_39204222_qp.jpg)

I wonder who it could be.

Helsinki (AFP) - Finland said Tuesday its navy had fired warning shots at a possible submarine off the coast of Helsinki in the early hours of the morning.

"During surveillance of (Finland's) territorial integrity, the navy detected a possible underwater object at midday (0900 GMT) on April 27, 2015, within Finland's territorial waters close to the border outside Helsinki," the defence ministry said in a statement.

A second sighting was made during the night and "a warning was given with light depth charges at three in the morning," the ministry added.

You really have become almost hysterical. May I inform you that Sweden has stated the suspected submarine they had was no and was not from where you would like to think! http://russia-insider.com/en/sweden-confirms-mystery-russian-subwas-fact-workboat/5583?utm_source=Russia+Insider+Daily+Headlines&utm_campaign=d65f175e36-Russia_Insider_Daily_Headlines11_21_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c626db089c-d65f175e36-224947493&ct=t(Russia_Insider_Daily_Headlines11_21_2014

So why have we not had that result more widely available dear cold war left over?

And I must say that every time a foreign head of state is given a Royal welcome the visitors are usually nervous. When you ever get an ex-colonist President with 80% support you will have some basis for your awful bigotry.

Obama Administration Wins Approval Across the World
Russian leadership, however, has hit a new low among the international community. (http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2015/04/21/obama-administration-wins-high-approval-ratings-worldwide)

Firstly I noticed he could not get over 50% world rating and what also needs to said is that much of that so-called support is due to money influence from the corporate State called America. With the amount of nonsensical propaganda that comes out of the West led by the corporate genius and interesting also smile is brought. The mindset of the brain dead is obvious all the time. The Baltimore matter is seen as a terrible riot but the damning incidents in Kiev and that Square where people including police were killed was NEVER propagated by the US as a riot was it??  Talk about bias. Kiev's regime has been totally supported by the US even thought the place is as corrupt as can be made. That same regime did not take in the eastern part of Ukraine at any time but just went out on their own way well supported by the White House. That the US's biggest head banger McCain went to support the criminals in Kiev sums that up well. Had the US given the green light to a referendum in Crimea the principle would have been fine but because it wasn't involved that makes it negative. I don't mid ex-colonists being daft but not the rest of the world.

Time after time the US has been a puppet controller of dictatorship after dictatorship but points the finger at others!  You can boast about people being able to vote and so on but the general population no longer have any sasy in the country. It is corporate barons who are in charge and taken the system over whilst throwng crumbs to the electorate and what is needed is another Revolution but the millionaires who run the Hill will see that off.

As for President Putin it is a frustration by America and their brained people that Putin IS so popular. After the collapse of the USSR Yeltsin hadn't much of a clue and much wrong went on in the new Russia and the US thought as it usually does it would have some God given right to influence like it thinks it can do everywhere (including create wars and help terrorists). Russians are very proud of their country  and heaven help any nation that does not put the US corrupt system first.  He IS actually in practical terms a man of the people and that is the way Russians want it. Time after time all sorts of snide and nonsense is dished out to him from the West yet he always refers to his friends in the West and that in itself shows something else practical in the man. He in personal terms could not care a damn the names the West gives him because he is so vastly supported by the man in the street. This is all ignored by the Goebells minds here in the West and they will get nowhere because he is totally in the same corner as his people. Never once has a Yank here replied to the last time a US President ever got 80% and maybe for good reason!

If you think that constantly attacking is the way to go then you will get one hell of a frustration. Crimea had always wanted to go back to Russia so why die the great US of A not acknowledge that one, eh? Now due to the rich bloke who runs Ukraine as President is in the US camp that eastern corner will now be lost to Ukraine due to it's criminality as a country and the backing of a stupid USA. It is high time the US started doing something about (1) It's own internal mess. (2) Economic danger. (3) Stopped causing conflicts and sticking your nose where not wanted.

Putin's a politician, so I don't trust him.
==================================
Cameron's a politician, so we know that he isn't poverty stricken.

The current value of Cameron's country home; £1 million
$1,680,000
Asset 2009
The value of Cameron and his wife's home in North Kensington, London; £1.5 million
$2,500,000
Salary 2009
Annual salary as opposition leader; £130 thousand
=================================
The same goes for the Clintons who have amassed a fortune since Billyboy left office.

Scary!

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.thefiscaltimes.com%2Fcdn%2Ffarfuture%2FhneVAsgaNpAcxnQeNGxPBQSUWA7qqEO1GPlML5BKwQQ%2Fmtime%3A1398280384%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Farticle_hero%2Fpublic%2Fslideshows%2F04272012_Putin_19_slideshow.jpg%3Fitok%3D3cd_LsnB&hash=bf18187be503af0af577fc7889a78bdd" rel="cached" data-hash="bf18187be503af0af577fc7889a78bdd" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.thefiscaltimes.com/cdn/farfuture/hneVAsgaNpAcxnQeNGxPBQSUWA7qqEO1GPlML5BKwQQ/mtime:1398280384/sites/default/files/styles/article_hero/public/slideshows/04272012_Putin_19_slideshow.jpg?itok=3cd_LsnB)

I'm tired of this idiotic Putin.

Belfrager, until he's tired of you, your opinion doesn't matter… :)

err... maybe you're right Oakdale, the world is upside down. :)

(https://nasmm.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/upside-down-world.jpg)

Well Belfrager we would not hear so much about Putin of it wasn't for the USA making the noise due to a country they cannot control or subdue......

Well Belfrager we would not hear so much about Putin of it wasn't for the USA making the noise due to a country they cannot control or subdue......

Agreed, course the USA makes a lot of noise, when the soviets collapsed they had it all, they had the opportunity to world's hegemony offered to them and what they did? nothing, they let a second level, obscure, KGB agent to take it away from their hands.

All the noise is to hide the biggest failure in history. Americans need the noise, Putin loves the noise and Europe cries as a baby.
Only the Chinese remains silent and acting.

Right on and you have it very concisely and accurately said there.  :up:

USA making the noise due to a country they cannot control or subdue......

Kinda like Scotland and certain Scots.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a4/df/20/a4df20ad5bbed3d3bcd9c6cdfa6d04cd.jpg)

PS Talking about control, Sir Winston Churchill may be one of Britain's greatest wartime leaders, but in India he has been blamed for allowing more than a million people to die of starvation.

Look to your own country's past, Mr. Howie.

Firstly. That is obviously a Yank. We don't have "diapers" in Britain we have "nappies." And as for the comment on Churchill the usual trait for ex-colonists and especially on this Forum is to try and deviate to someone else's past. It is your own nation that is the top hypocrisy in the world claiming all sorts of wonderful democracy, rights, principles but makes a mockery of them by the actions globally and internally.  During the Russian Civil War (as I pointed out ages ago and it was danced around), America and us were amongst Allies with troops in Russia on the side of the Whites and the Volunteer Army of Russia. Essentially we kept out of the even but whilst doing that America was at the same time secretly doing deals with the Bolsheviks!  The same people who were to murder more people than the Nazis so we need no lectures from you dear retired teach about principles. Your President also worked behind Churchill's back with Stalin at Yalta as he thought he was so brilliant he could get on with Joe. Typical. And anyway, India is a part of the British Commonwealth and something you lot could not never have managed!

Anyway you do have a near fanatical thing about Russia and for less than any worthwhile reason.

Anyway you do have a near fanatical thing about Russia and for less than any worthwhile reason.

Not at all true. I only think about Russia when visiting DnD.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.co.uk%2Ftto%2Fmultimedia%2Farchive%2F00882%2FPeterBrookes0304_20_882072c.jpg&hash=53be21877aef3c5d3f5b8bca525c550d" rel="cached" data-hash="53be21877aef3c5d3f5b8bca525c550d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00882/PeterBrookes0304_20_882072c.jpg)

Firstly. That is obviously a Yank. We don't have "diapers" in Britain we have "nappies."

It's obviously not a Brit who captioned the picture. It might be a real Scot. ;)

Nah. Has to be a Yank they always go over the top with stuff. Naapies would be good for them in case they get shouted at, cry and have an accident.

Meanwhile on all the rubbish from the land of hypocrisy on Russia and the so-called principled sanctions.

http://russia-insider.com/en/business/us-sanctions-saber-rattling-doesnt-stop-us-importing-russian-petroleum/ri6590?utm_source=Russia+Insider+Daily+Headlines&utm_campaign=800b47481b-Russia_Insider_Daily_Headlines11_21_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c626db089c-800b47481b-224947493&ct=t(Russia_Insider_Daily_Headlines11_21_2014

Vladimir Putin, wanting to get on the good side of voters, goes to visit a school in  Moscow to have a chat with the kids. He talks to them about how  Russia is a powerful nation and how he wants the best for the people.

At the end of the talk, there is a section for questions. Little Sasha puts her hand up and says "I have two questions. Why did the Russians take  Crimea ? And why are we sending troops to  Ukraine ?"

Putin says "Good questions..." But just as he is about to answer, the bell goes, and the kids go to lunch.

When they come back, they sit back down and there is room for some more questions, another girl, Misha, puts her hand up and says "I have four questions.

My Questions are - Why did the Russians invade  Crimea ? Why are we sending troops to  Ukraine ? Why did the bell go 20 minutes early? And where is Sasha?"

Good joke <pedant>, but Sasha (short for Alexander) and Misha (short for Michael) are usually boys' names, not girls' names</pedant>. Of course in gender-confused Russia you might not know.

Yeah a good joke but pointless as the truth is that Putin is far more popular than most of our leaders are. The usual ant-Russian propaganda started off by an un-bias and middle of the road America ( :D) hits out at gender stuff yet the totally ignore all the pals in the Muslim world like their closes bosom ones in that tyrannical Saudi Arabia. So can we now here the Islam world included? Unlike the Islamic places, Russia does allow queer clubs but does not permit a pushing agenda and fair enough . Try starting a queer club in Muslim land and see what happens. The great would-be open minds in the West went bananas over the arrests, etc of that Pussy Riot headaches. So if they had done that stuff in Westminster Abbey, the cathedral in Washington DC or St Peter's in Rome that would have been okay?

It is also ludicrous for the great hypocrisy land to make allegations that Russia wants to dominate. Now that really is sadly laughable coming from the ex-colonies who have been in the business of creating wars, destroying those they don't like and world domination. The US created and led this Kiev bunch of rat bags which also includes Nazis in the government. It was also in western Ukraine that for some time there have been annual commemorations in memory of Ukrainian Nazis from WW2 and indeed the Ukraine Insurgent Army which was totally under Nazi control. Crimea was totally right in wanting back where they felt they belonged having been dumped where it was by a dictator decades ago. Now through the inside-out activity by the Kiev bunch that part of the east of Ukraine will also be lost forever due to the way that was totally mishandled and civilians well included the offensive.

Add to this the stupid attitude of the West leaders who turned down the annual invitation to the Moscow remembering parade of the Patriotic War. Russia lost vast numbers but stayed in the war and we on the Allies side would never have had the success we got but for the 2 fronts. I will at least give the German Chancellor her due for going over on the day after to the more informal gatherings. Good to see that President Putin joined the hundreds of thousands of ordinary folk carrying pictures of family killed. He had a picture of his father. Whether a lot here like it or not Russia will not be dominated by the usual guilty party hence all the guff we get and the media hype never mind the political tripe.

Yeah a good joke but pointless as the truth is that Putin is far more popular than most of our leaders are.

You don't understand Putin's popularity any more than do the rest of us. Obama's and Cameron's popularity are measured in countries where there are open presses where events can be openly discussed.

Putin’s popularity has been achieved in an information vacuum. An informal set of censorship rules, actively enforced by the Kremlin, makes it virtually impossible to discuss important issues and question official actions through the mass media. Today, independent voices rarely reach into Russian living rooms over the airwaves. In recent months, the government has tightened its noose, pressuring even outlets serving niche audiences, such as the news Web site Lenta.ru, the newspaper Vedomosti and the Moscow station TV Rain. Meanwhile, feverish state propaganda feeds Russian television audiences an unchallenged and delusive flow of information designed to show the country’s leaders in the most positive light while blaming problems on “fascists,” “foreign agents” and “fifth columns.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-russia-props-up-putin-in-the-polls/2015/01/30/0302bea8-a59e-11e4-a7c2-03d37af98440_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-russia-props-up-putin-in-the-polls/2015/01/30/0302bea8-a59e-11e4-a7c2-03d37af98440_story.html)

Furthermore, consider such things as...

Sergei Reznik, a journalist and blogger based in the southern city of Rostov-on-Don who has been held since November 2013, was due to have been released in May on completing an 18-month sentence, but a court increased his sentence to three years in prison at the prosecution’s request at the end of a new trial yesterday. This means he will not be released for another 21 months.

http://en.rsf.org/russia-jailed-journalist-given-another-23-01-2015,47534.html (http://en.rsf.org/russia-jailed-journalist-given-another-23-01-2015,47534.html)

No you are wrong with that matter of me not understanding Putin's popularity more than the rest of you. Your comment is based on a very in your face bigotry and repeatedly here you have simply been part of the political leader class led by the US in being anti-Russian.

When the USSR regime collapsed your country thought it would be able to do as it does wleswhere and get in there but badly misjudged the people in Russia as it is a completely different tradtion. Your leadrs do not like those nations it cannot control, bribe or win a military thing against. Here on these forums you have shown a determined and near bling antagonism and used anything to slag off Russia. Coming from a country that has a dodgy internal record on misuse of law, freedoms, internal spying and worse you have no moral basis at all. You will also desperately hold on to any occasional matters to try and justify your anti-Russia view and is if i am being reasonable a barely controlled mania. Like any country there are always those for anad against political leaders but that Putin DOES have the overwhelming support of 80% of the people is totally ignored or side stepped and you are putting yourself into the political and media nonsense brigade.

If your own country was better run internally and was not a world controlling freakery and military imperialist you could have a better corner. Putin at the same time has still tried to have a sensible dealing with the West but nope the West cannot control that country like it does with others so all hell is let loose. Russians are proud of their country and don't feel very happy about the 2-faced attitude of the West. And as I said a wee while ago that he has that 80% backing is a galling frustration from the mind controllers in the White House and Pentagaon. You will not "win" against putin and on a broader basis not on military matters eeither so get used to it!

Ah, unrequited infatuation.
Love is indeed blind. How sad.

Some early photos of our hero.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/10/young-putin-photos_n_7252370.html?cps=gravity_2425_5958329597661092655 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/10/young-putin-photos_n_7252370.html?cps=gravity_2425_5958329597661092655)
======================
Rj, it's hard to counter anything that you have to say about Putin other than to point out that you  think that you have knowledge about him that nobody else has. The same is true about your view of the US. You show signs of being an old Russian apparatchik and Putin toady.

Putin...Good!
United States...Bad!
=================
Breaking News!

MOSCOW — Russia showed off new machines of war, including a highly sophisticated tank, on Saturday in the annual Victory Day military parade through Red Square that marks the surrender of Nazi Germany and the Red Army’s key role in the defeat.

The Armata tank drew a strong round of applause as it rumbled through the square. Also on view for the first time at the parade was a lumbering RS-24 Yars ICBM launcher, along with several new, smaller vehicles.

Apparently Russia's New Armata Tank Appears to Break Down During Victory Day Rehearsals (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/article/520324.html)

But there was no problem, Putin got out and pushed.

Putin got out and pushed.

Is anybody surprised? The man can do anything he putins his mind to.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Farchive.washingtonexaminer.com%2Fprimary%2Flocal%2F2013%2F09-18%2F0c%2Fbe%2Fe4%2Fexdc5-6bw099hi308atn4ofht_layout.jpg&hash=915b23fecb961309fd7531919ac283fe" rel="cached" data-hash="915b23fecb961309fd7531919ac283fe" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://archive.washingtonexaminer.com/primary/local/2013/09-18/0c/be/e4/exdc5-6bw099hi308atn4ofht_layout.jpg)

Yep. A born leader and maybe one day you might get one but you had better be overly patient!   :)

Swedish peace activists deploy 'gay sailor' to deter Russian submarines (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/14/europe/sweden-russia-gay-sailor-submarine/index.html)

[video]https://youtu.be/KCvQGFzZuWA[/video]

The unlikely sounding device is the brainchild of the Swedish Peace and Arbitration Society, which describes itself as the world's oldest peace organization.

In an effort to combat military aggression and homophobia in one fell swoop, it's created the "subsurface sonar system" to greet any Russian submariners who might find themselves lost in Swedish waters.

The animated neon sign shows a man wearing only a sailor's hat and white underpants thrusting his hips, with little love hearts flashing. It bears the message: "Welcome to Sweden" in both Russian and English, with the text "Gay since 1944" -- a reference to the year that Sweden legalized homosexuality -- added in English.

A Morse code message simultaneously calls out: "This way if you are gay."

The headline-grabbing move is a response to the Swedish government's stepped-up military efforts after a suspected Russian submarine incursion into Swedish waters last year.

The Swedish military carried out an intense sweep of the waters off Stockholm but later said it was not able to confirm the nationality of the intruding submarine.

Last month, the government proposed a defense bill that would see military spending grow by 11% over the next five years -- the first such increase in more than two decades. The additional spending would allow "additional reinforcement of anti-submarine warfare capability," among other measures, it said.

The activists' move is also a comment on Russia's perceived homophobia, centered on its "gay propaganda" law, which makes it illegal to tell children about gay equality. The law, passed in 2013, has been widely criticized not only by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender advocates but also by Western leaders, who have called it archaic and discriminatory.

In a statement, the Swedish Peace and Arbitration Society invited any submarine crew -- Swedish or foreign -- that picked up the message to join them at Stockholm's Gay Pride parade in August.

"In times of unrest, love and peace across boundaries is more important than ever. We want to break up with the violence," said Daniel Holking, the society's communications and fundraising manager.

"If military actions and weapons had functioned as conflict-resolution methods there would be peace in the world a long time ago," added Anna Ek, the group's president.

There's more to Putin than you think.
http://vladimirputin.soup.io (http://vladimirputin.soup.io)
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fasset-a.soup.io%2Fasset%2F7144%2F6346_a3b3.gif&hash=42b1dd619e8dae631213d404269fb436" rel="cached" data-hash="42b1dd619e8dae631213d404269fb436" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://asset-a.soup.io/asset/7144/6346_a3b3.gif)

CNN said 'Last month, the government [of Sweden] proposed a defense bill that would see military spending grow by 11% over the next five years -- the first such increase in more than two decades. The additional spending would allow "additional reinforcement of anti-submarine warfare capability," among other measures, it said.'
An 11% increase — for one submarine sighting? Heavens: What if Sweden actually had enemies? :)

That will certainly make the Russians think twice! Unless it was an American sub...or an Iranian sub.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trunews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2FBlueSub1.jpg&hash=56b28178261a7e28aa74bbd52a95ad07" rel="cached" data-hash="56b28178261a7e28aa74bbd52a95ad07" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.trunews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/BlueSub1.jpg)

An 11% increase — for one submarine sighting? Heavens: What if Sweden actually had enemies? :)

For all his admirable qualities, you shouldn't rely on rjhowie for foreign affairs intelligence, it comes with some limitations. There has been far more than one sub sighting in Sweden. I for one am sure the sea gulls flying off the Södertälje Canal yesterday were espying some nameless submerged threat.

Russia is not an existential threat to Sweden (or Norway), the country is protected by a cloud of mutual thermonuclear destruction, which admittedly would be an existential threat. Even without it the odds would be stacked against an Russian invasion, even the Soviet Union in the good old days. Likewise invading Russia is not a cunning plan.

This is not merely existential, this is political. The long-term goal of the Swedish Kingdom has been to control the Baltic Sea (also known as the Eastern or Western Sea, depending on which side of the pond you are), though there has admittedly been a few setbacks the last couple centuries. The EU might frown upon an invasion of Poland, the question is if Sweden should be able to actively defend the Baltic States, and defending the Baltic States is necessary, but not sufficient, to defend Ukraine. Currently Sweden wouldn't be able to defend Sweden, if pressed.

A change of doctrine and new toys would be expensive. Here there is a disadvantage of being small countries, these toys would take up a sizeable part of a smaller budget, and these are essentially political toys, not defence toys. Same goes in Norway. The investment in e.g. F35s would do little, or currently nothing, for the defence of the country, but has some political value.

A change of doctrine and new toys would be expensive. Here there is a disadvantage of being small countries, these toys would take up a sizeable part of a smaller budget, and these are essentially political toys, not defence toys.

Nope. Every time you see some news saying that those toys are going to cost a fortune you can be sure that's half of the truth. The other half is that you get your money back by way of parallel contracts as a condition to buy it.

I buy a German submarine if and only if, in return, they buy me shoes or whatever I can deliver (usually investment counterpart contracts, not goods).
You just see the submarine cost in the news simply because the other contract is where I'll get my corruption fees from. Clear now? :)

Likewise invading Russia is not a cunning plan.

Hitler learned that lesson too late.

Quote from: jax on 2015-05-16, 04:32:05

Likewise invading Russia is not a cunning plan.

Hitler learned that lesson too late.

So did Napoleon. Tragic thing is, Hitler might have learned from history if he had chosen to. The same things that got Napoleon's armies helped destroy Hitler's armies--- the Russian winter, and a British adversary that wouldn't stop fighting on the other side.

So did Napoleon. Tragic thing is, Hitler might have learned from history if he had chosen to. The same things that got Napoleon's armies helped destroy Hitler's armies--- the Russian winter, and a British adversary that wouldn't stop fighting on the other side.

I wouldn't call it tragic. Had Hitler learned from history he would not have invaded Russia.

If Hitler did not have the losses incurred in Russia and the diversion of military resources needed to fight the Russians the Sicily/Italian campaign would have failed and D-Day would not have been attempted.

The Nazi regime would have lasted until use of nuclear weapons by the US. Considering the Nazi leadership it would have taken a lot more than two cities before surrender.

The German high command had learned from history, they were not stupid, even though they had to suffer the Führer as a back-seat driver. Things didn't exactly go according to plan though. Had the Nazis won somehow, that would have been a great disturbance in the Force indeed. What the Nazis did to the Jews Hitler had planned for the Russians. Now, Napoleon might have benefited from a history lesson, but that's another history.

Most of Russia's neighbours have fought Russia at one point or another, the only exception I can think of are Norway (having had Sweden as a common enemy for most of the time) and North Korea.  But for all this rousing fighting talk this is not where it is at. Russia is no military match to NATO (if the US started to develop an interest in potted plants instead the balance would change, but would still not be in Russia's favour), but the issue is the buffer states.

Should they grow fat, smug, and content in the warm embrace of the EU, reaching from Finland to Scotland to Portugal, or be doomed to a gloomy, miserable and perpetually corrupt existence on Russia's doorstep? And why shouldn't Russia too smilingly welcome EU's outstretched arms?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.otherpeoplespixels.com%2Fsites%2F44270%2Fassets%2FhJWc23C_6F0m_lxm.jpg&hash=86ffaef9553354a8b10b43cfbe736964" rel="cached" data-hash="86ffaef9553354a8b10b43cfbe736964" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://s3.otherpeoplespixels.com/sites/44270/assets/hJWc23C_6F0m_lxm.jpg)

And why shouldn't Russia too smilingly welcome EU's outstretched arms?

Don't misunderstand this post as implying an anti EU stance on my part, but I doubt if Russia's leaders would be comfortable with submerging it's sovereignty in the EU. They would have to swallow so many limits on their freedom of action and the people at large would have to swallow the concept that Russia could not rule its own roost any more.

Maybe in years to come?      Many many many years perhaps.

At the new geo-strategy, EU is by far the weakest part. In fact, Europe it's the objective of all the others.
Kind of final countdown, the only way out is being able to put others to fight amongst themselves, that will retard things a little more.

At this perspective, Russia's neighboring countries can have also an important role. Germany tried to do it with Ukrania with disastrous results.

Interestingly the USA is becoming a dance expert regarding Russia. We have all the seen the nationalist US rhetoric of Kerry verbally attacking Russia. On a minor note he and the Russian Foreign Minister do get on personally but there is a very subtle change that many ex-colonists have not realised due to easy braining by the media, etc

I say this because Kerry spent 4 hours with President Putin who cleverly does not subscribe toi the silly rhetoric stance of Obama or Kerry. But Kerry has realised that the sanctions on Russia will not buckle knees or be giving into American imperialism. Indeed the bear has been gradually r-balancing trade with elsewhere including China, India, etc. The US knows this and is also aware that they cannot get the Russian knee bowed trade-wise nor militarily hence the slightly different dance steps. And in furtherance note this. Kerry has also broke ranks from his puppet he controlled i Kiev the Ukrainian President b y condemning that clowns' arrogance and rubbish about how Kiev would tame the East provinces, etc, etc. Now the buffoon is being advised by the Secretary of State to back off and quieten down so the stance on Russia has to cnange but it has taken an awful long time for the White House to use common sense.

I really could not resist this character insight into the magnificent President Putin.

Putin left red-faced as Kremlin photo gaffe exposes his small height (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/563245/Putin-red-faced-Kremlin-photo-gaffe-exposes-small-height)

The British media are back into Napoleoning again, I see. I've been in the same room as Putin (and the same men's room as his body guards). He's not a big man, and while I don't put it beyond their propaganda department to look for particularly tiny tigers, bears and horses, he's not a stand-in for Dr. Evil. Bill Clinton is surprisingly tall.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffc06.deviantart.net%2Ffs6%2Fi%2F2005%2F083%2Fa%2Fe%2FNapoleon_Bonaparte__quot_the_great_quot__by_aaronravensoul.jpg&hash=0d637fa008a3a1ea80fd98f2740e78ed" rel="cached" data-hash="0d637fa008a3a1ea80fd98f2740e78ed" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs6/i/2005/083/a/e/Napoleon_Bonaparte__quot_the_great_quot__by_aaronravensoul.jpg)

Nice tits, Vlad.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fll-media.tmz.com%2F2013%2F08%2F21%2F0821-vladimir-putin-not-gay-tmz-1.jpg&hash=c5cbe38b95f4e789e4db10f1477cabcb" rel="cached" data-hash="c5cbe38b95f4e789e4db10f1477cabcb" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://ll-media.tmz.com/2013/08/21/0821-vladimir-putin-not-gay-tmz-1.jpg)

Surely you all heard this song years ago when I posted it on My Opera. Just for the sake of Jimbro's nostalgic recollections, here it is again.

Thanks ersi. I'm a big fan of nationalistic music. I start every day with a rousing recording of The Star Bangled Banner.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgtvoTmTc4k[/video]

 :zip:

President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33034844)

"Only an insane person and only in a dream can imagine that Russia would suddenly attack Nato," Mr Putin told Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera.

It must have also have been a deam that Russia annexed The Crimea.

Within the link, that quoted text includes a link to Putin's answers to other questions.

Note Putin's flair for the monologue.

He is a man for all seasons.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.un242.idmilano.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F11%2Fsmall-man-putin-on-horse.jpg&hash=de3d3413180e93e7b9b197e0aa7c4f9c" rel="cached" data-hash="de3d3413180e93e7b9b197e0aa7c4f9c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.un242.idmilano.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/small-man-putin-on-horse.jpg)(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.streetcarnage.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F12%2Fputin1.jpg&hash=7b0bbdc241fdeef7f9c34d243172d676" rel="cached" data-hash="7b0bbdc241fdeef7f9c34d243172d676" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.streetcarnage.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/putin1.jpg)(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F40.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lh6trxZcLr1qfz4xco1_500.jpg&hash=7ffbcbceb6d49beaaae8bf2c85903208" rel="cached" data-hash="7ffbcbceb6d49beaaae8bf2c85903208" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh6trxZcLr1qfz4xco1_500.jpg)(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_OIxomFSvkm4%2FSnstAbkgHdI%2FAAAAAAAAAFg%2F0lUZMIPbM4I%2Fs1600-h%2Fputin.gif&hash=8d7c73287ea24c58e63cf67af4204ff8" rel="cached" data-hash="8d7c73287ea24c58e63cf67af4204ff8" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OIxomFSvkm4/SnstAbkgHdI/AAAAAAAAAFg/0lUZMIPbM4I/s1600-h/putin.gif)(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-oKe4Ufu4BUY%2FTkvd-FUHfAI%2FAAAAAAAAANM%2F4nluT0U1ua8%2Fs1600%2FPutin%2BAssasin.jpg&hash=46f83a22934893f1a1189d5270348dbb" rel="cached" data-hash="46f83a22934893f1a1189d5270348dbb" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oKe4Ufu4BUY/Tkvd-FUHfAI/AAAAAAAAANM/4nluT0U1ua8/s1600/Putin+Assasin.jpg)

rjhowie
Hero Member
*****
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRea0MSz9NqPyOxsNMkdRcOqUY5mMw-YAa0QKhzt8F3iPkOOGWM)
A new avatar that circumvents the "Queer" problem!

You really are so blind and get drawn into the Western media and political leadership claptrap.

Hasn't Obama the leader of the world's most militant and invading nation guilty of monologue?? And we get that Gobells style repeated stuff about Russia annexing tthe Crimea. It doesn't matter how often one dares to repeat that it was taken out of Russia although it didn't want to. Having been under an autocratic Soviet rule things were much different today. They voted to go back and I know, I know, we will get the usual tripe about the vote being false. It is okay if a vote suits the US and it's Western lapdogs but if noit then you can expect the tripe about lack of principle. The day the White House practices principle will cause mass worries to the controlled minds.  Crimea is back where it belongs and i don't remember the US yakking anything when it was moved decades ago. Such rubbbish from the US led West is laughable when one considers all the mess-ups, supprt of dictatorships that suited and so on. It was Kiev assisted by the US that created the fiasco in the est of Ukraine and the Crimea. Ukraine is a baskecase and led by a President who is a corporate. The Prime Minister is a hateful liar and anything that comes out of his mouth is taken as Gospel by the White House. Kind of moronic that.

And now we are getting all this lack of sense about Russia being a threat and NATO exercising in the Baltics. It is in a grey cell corner utterly laughable. It is just another example of NATO trying to justify itself when it should have went years ago. It suits the corporates who run the US firstly and can get more money in the armanent industry and everyone else just dutifully following on. You and the others here can scoff all you like but Russia is not a threat at all and when I commented a while back that one of the Baltic States had a government minister on tv saying there was no threat all you propagated minds did a bodyswerve. It is galling for you small minds to sneer but when Obama and his allies have a leader who gets the same level of support then you will have a stringer case. And remember this. It is industry and farming places in Europe who are dreadfully suffering on the embargo rubbish and much of that will be ,lost for ever as Russia will trade elsewhere. Noe of this in practical terms effects the US so they damn well don't care.

This article investigates professional Russian Internet trolling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

This article investigates professional Russian Internet trolling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

If the NYT article tells the true then Putin should be really ashamed.
Hasn't told him anybody as yet that manipulating the Internet is an exclusive right of Western powers who at least do it from the highest moral grounds. :)

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations (https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/)

Hasn't told him anybody as yet that manipulating the Internet is an exclusive right of Western powers who at least do it from the highest moral grounds.

Goodness man, don't you realize wir sind die Guten.

Putin doesn't give a fuck about us and we don't give a fuck about Putin.
That's how things should be.

The next one to mention Putin will be condemned to eternal banning, this life and the other. No excuses.

Maybe someone can  put in  a good word for him.

Putin doesn't give a fuck about us and we don't give a fuck about Putin.
That's how things should be.

The next one to mention Putin will be condemned to eternal banning, this life and the other. No excuses.

I agree with the sentiment, but language Belfrager, language!
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.perezhilton.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F07%2Fgene-wilder-eye-roll.gif&hash=16b7f77348f73d6d558e8cab61242cd0" rel="cached" data-hash="16b7f77348f73d6d558e8cab61242cd0" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/gene-wilder-eye-roll.gif)
This gentleman is a real Putin supporter, so he'll be happy to put in a good word.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Kqw49A9D6F0/VXdVPwDYt1I/AAAAAAAAAX0/AgkxIunXtLA/w453-h675-no/rjhowie.jpg)

But does he know any good words?

There's a new book out on Russia's beloved leader.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/510428943518662656/JVTreL01.png)

Our boy is back.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/19/us-russia-crisis-putin-economy-idUSKBN0OZ17U20150619 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/19/us-russia-crisis-putin-economy-idUSKBN0OZ17U20150619)

Well now, I think such a book in reality would sell well in America as they are so conditioned into propaganda being so damn imperialist, dumbed and brought up with Cold War mentalities. The ex-colonists will never be able to do anything with with either Russia nor it's leader and it damn frustrates the US war creators (well keeps the military and military corporates content. Recently in the US there have been arrests for military/corporate corruptions - surprise, surprise!). When even an intellectual ex-colonist has such a deep rooted incapability to see sense nothing will change on the propaganda front.  :lol:

Something good about Mr. Putin!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/25/putin-russian-military_n_7661756.html?cps=gravity_2684_9166876669866853414 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/25/putin-russian-military_n_7661756.html?cps=gravity_2684_9166876669866853414)

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia needs a mighty military to fend off threats near its borders, President Vladimir Putin said Thursday, a stance that reflects soaring tensions with the West over the crisis in Ukraine.

The Russian leader, whose approval ratings reached an all-time high this month despite a bruising recession, said a "powerful army equipped with modern weapons is the guarantor of sovereignty and territorial integrity of Russia."

Speaking at Thursday's Kremlin meeting with graduates of Russian military academies, Putin also vowed to continue a sweeping military modernization effort that envisions buying large numbers of new weapons.

Despite the fact that oil-rich Russia is now in a recession, Putin's plan aims to spend 22 trillion rubles (over $400 billion) through 2020 to give the armed forces dozens of navy ships, hundreds of new planes and missiles and thousands of tanks and other weapons.

I note, Jimbro, that you omitted the punctuation from your quote from rjhowie above… Surely, there was a period? :)

I note, Jimbro, that you omitted the punctuation from your quote from rjhowie above… Surely, there was a period? :)

Period.

And what damn right does America have to think it should control the world? It destablises places it does not like or if they won't be subdued to your influence or commercial money barons. Throw in supporting terrorists, dictatorships and much else. Putin has played a professional political game and ot does not in today's world behave like America does.

The USA is determined to keep the NATO idiocy in place as the corporate military industry in the ex-colonies makes billions. The sheer hypocrisy of the Westis legion and it frustrates you lot to hell that you have somewhere you cannot control or shut down. Now lies and excuses needed to put bases at Russia's doorstep and excuses to surround it. If most Yanks are going to be as Cold War daft as your stance the place is not growing up. Hypocrisyland!

he sheer hypocrisy of the Westis legion and it frustrates you lot to hell that you have somewhere you cannot control or shut down. Now lies and excuses needed to put bases at Russia's doorstep and excuses to surround it.

Utter nonsense. Who is you?

Russia isn't being surrounded because nobody wants to surround Russia, and they couldn't if they wanted to. But according to a BBC report...

Nato's deputy chief says Russian leaders are less and less able to conceal the deaths of "large numbers" of Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine.
Alexander Vershbow said Russia's involvement was becoming more unpopular with the Russian public as a result.
Russian officials dismissed on Thursday a US claim that Moscow had sent "thousands and thousands" of troops to fight alongside separatists.
A foreign ministry spokesman said the figures were "plucked out of the air".
Ukraine and the West have long accused Russia of helping the rebels with weapons and soldiers,
Independent experts echo that accusation but Moscow denies it, insisting that any Russians serving with the rebels are "volunteers".
Alexander Vershbow, Nato's deputy secretary general, told a conference in Latvia: "Russian leaders are less and less able to conceal the fact that Russian soldiers are fighting - and dying - in large numbers in eastern Ukraine."
There was "mounting evidence that the Russian incursion into Ukraine is becoming much less popular among the Russian public", he added.
Earlier this week, Russian investigative newspaper Novaya Gazeta published an interview with a wounded tank gunner, who said that he was a regular Russian army soldier and had been fighting alongside rebels.
He said he had received thorough training in Russia before being sent to Ukraine.

Excuse me but having new bases in eastern Europe such as Poland the 3 Baltic States for a start is for what? Time after time the West has simply believed everything that Kiev tells them whether proved or not. Even the BBC has been far from balanced like any other media. And if Russia did have instructors in the south east of Ukraine you would thnk that as odd. The West has done the same thing so hardly innocents. The Kiev government created by a coup which suited the US did nothing to discuss matters in the east of the country and in fact did not give a dman as it was all based on West Ukraine. Having been ignored it is hardly unexpected having been mistreated the East took up the cudgels.  Instead of the Ukrainian government involving everyone they did not hence the civil war situation that was not caused by Russia.

It is rather ridiculous for Americans to go bananas when their own lot helped terrorists in Afghanistan (and elsewhere) during Soviet times. One could consider things better if you lot did not practice hypocrisy. The Kiev government banned any Communist Party MP's but accepted the Right Sector even into the government. Remember them - the ones with the SS symbols, etc?  Even had their battalion in the nNtional Guard where they could not be controlled any more than in the streets. The Right Sector is also in the government. Blaming Russia is farcical and that country was still supplying pipelines at reduced rates for Kiev in the face of rubbish.

Russia would never want to invade Ukraine as the place is in a total shambles, economically staggering, corrupt as Hell and the President appoints the former President of Georgia as a regional governor even though he was wanted in his own country for corruption. The whole military goings on from the US is there to keep increasing the global bases everywhere and imperialist progress (including Europe). Russia and putin have shown more common sense than the West. Putin has made it clear they have utterly no interest in invading anybody but that is ignored by America so it can spread and posture in eastern Europe at the borders of Russia. Stupidity is too easy a word.

Putin has made it clear they have utterly no interest in invading anybody

That must had been while invading Crimea, right?
If you want to be Putin's official biographer and president of his Fan Club you need to take note on those things rjhowie... :)

Oh dear submitting to West propaganda! Referendums are okay if America agrees with them and if not they are evil intents. The vast majority of people in Crimea wanted back where they came from Belfrager and that was Russia and remember they did not ask to be dumped in Ukraine due to the dictatorship of the USSR. As i pointed out earlier the rather suspect Kosovo thing was okay with the US led West as it was against Serbia and that country by tradition, etc more Russian leaning. Crimea will be better off and even senior citizen pensions are better and the place is no longer part of that rapidly failing State, Ukraine. It cannot pay it's debtors (one of which is Russia!) and I bet you that Kiev gets a feely-feely attitude more than Greece. Apart from being a financial disaster, Ukraine is as messed up as Hell and it is all self-created. The coup in Kiev aided by the neo-Nazis (still in government) did not include east Ukraine nor Crimea as Kiev didn't care a damn about them. It was all the motivation of West Ukraine and very encouraged by the US. When you get an imbecile like Senator John McCain getting a day out of the loony bin to go and give support that tells much.

Ukraine is teetering on the failed State edge and hoping that the US taxpayer who is always conned to try and exist. It is also the Kiev and West Ukraine that supported the Nazis in WW2 and fought with the SS proudly. But that is okay of course. The Kiev plot was NOT national and they did not care a two penny damn about the East nor Crimea for consultation they were just ignored and you think that was moral?? That would be as daft do face the actual truth not the guff from the White House which is fed to them by the Kiev mindsets. The Right Sector if gets the chance would depose their own President.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.cagle.com%2F118%2F2014%2F03%2F19%2F145967_600.jpg&hash=26d98d89ff367b4052b6247990f10061" rel="cached" data-hash="26d98d89ff367b4052b6247990f10061" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://media.cagle.com/118/2014/03/19/145967_600.jpg)

Coming from a country as  imperialist warlike as yours took you a while to be able to reply but shouldn't have bothered as you are a chld of the Cold war mentality that Americans always loved. . At least Crimea was Russian whereas you lot think you can invade anywhere and come out with the usual childish nonsense of it being to your country's "security." That so many over the water accept this tripe emphasises the deep educational problem in the land of the free and home of the brave (giggle). Your chums do not like any country that challenges or you cannot control so well done Putin and he should keep it up as there is not a damn thing you lot of war merchants can do. Having written to two Presidents elsewhere might give him a thought!

Meantime do try harder to get out of the Cold War mental midget thing.

Coming from a country as  imperialist warlike as yours took you a while to be able to reply but shouldn't have bothered as you are a chld of the Cold war mentality that Americans always loved. . At least Crimea was Russian whereas you lot think you can invade anywhere and come out with the usual childish nonsense of it being to your country's "security." That so many over the water accept this tripe emphasises the deep educational problem in the land of the free and home of the brave (giggle). Your chums do not like any country that challenges or you cannot control so well done Putin and he should keep it up as there is not a damn thing you lot of war merchants can do. Having written to two Presidents elsewhere might give him a thought!

Meantime do try harder to get out of the Cold War mental midget thing.

We learned from the master. How many countries were some form of satellite during the height of the British Empire? I'm sure I could look it up fast enough but it amuses me to make you tell us. I seem to recall reading-- here on DnD no less--- that at one time or another the British Empire had boots in all but---hmmm, less than a score of other countries weren't invaded by the British at one time or another-- everybody else was..

I point out, too, that much of this empire was built at a time when the only way to get from one place to another was either by horse (if over land) or by sailing-ship (if over water, or if it made sense-- as it often did-- to take a ship rather than a horse). Only birds and angels of God flew back in those days.

So--- pot calling the kettle black much?

Back to Putin, boys. You could see it in his eyes early on. Once a cockroach, always a cockroach.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fdata.baba-mail.com%2FImages%2F2012%2F9%2F3%2F40d2a7c6-c3ad-43fb-a68c-f0e4aeab4ced.jpg&hash=1fe4e8fe97b6af828a6886ce086aae11" rel="cached" data-hash="1fe4e8fe97b6af828a6886ce086aae11" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://data.baba-mail.com/Images/2012/9/3/40d2a7c6-c3ad-43fb-a68c-f0e4aeab4ced.jpg)
BTW Rj, never forget that you're dealing with advocates from The Greatest Nation in History!

You are like the average Joe oevr there mjsmsprt40. You learned nothing from us or why have a revolution to be totally different? just loom at your internal history and it os one of control freakery, lack of a wide remitt for voters, corruption of monumental scale, racism that is stil there, police state activity, trillions in debt, causing wars, took longer to get rid of slavery, run by money peole (40% of the lower house millionaires and 60% of the Senate). Oh and throw ion the treatment of the native indians and you come out with balderdash. Never once have any of you lot ever been able to answer the charges. Even your revolution was created by the money class and they still run the damn place.  In a wide sense you are almost admitting it trying to come out with blaming us which is a laugh of giant proportions! Hey you could be the forum's comparison to that Trump!  :lol:

You really have a nerve there jimbro. You might be basically intelligent but your Cold war youth has deeply effected you and does you no favours. Just look at some of the cockroaches that have ran America in generally modern times. You lot might get away with anything in the world but boy, oh boy not on this forum!

If Putin had been sooking in with America and let your hypocritical part-democracy control it like you try to do elsewhere the Russian leader would have been a wonderful guy. Instead Russia maintains it's independence and you don't like countries to do that. Farcical coming from a nation that is so anti-Communists but deep in hock to Red china so maybe go back to satire as the hard stuff doesn't suit you!

You are like the average Joe oevr there mjsmsprt40. You learned nothing from us or why have a revolution to be totally different? just loom at your internal history and it os one of control freakery, lack of a wide remitt for voters, corruption of monumental scale, racism that is stil there, police state activity, trillions in debt, causing wars, took longer to get rid of slavery, run by money peole (40% of the lower house millionaires and 60% of the Senate). Oh and throw ion the treatment of the native indians and you come out with balderdash. Never once have any of you lot ever been able to answer the charges. Even your revolution was created by the money class and they still run the damn place.  In a wide sense you are almost admitting it trying to come out with blaming us which is a laugh of giant proportions! Hey you could be the forum's comparison to that Trump!  :lol:

Oh my. It seems our dear old Mr. Howie hasn't lost his taste for bad mouthing America while ignoring the ungoing issues in the UK and his own country's less than illustrious history. How many Irish dead again, Howie? How many Indians?

I am fully aware of your fondness for the word "awesome" and fittingly your hypocrisy could only be described as such. Well done, old chap  :up:  :cheers:

You learned nothing from us

It's not all that difficult. In fact it's an absolute necessity for those who love learning.(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileyfaze.tk%2Fslides%2F3D_emoticon_snoozer002.gif&hash=245c66665fe783e6a058d6aeeb04b16f" rel="cached" data-hash="245c66665fe783e6a058d6aeeb04b16f" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://smileyfaze.tk/slides/3D_emoticon_snoozer002.gif)

Raccoon is of course a member of this forum anyway but using a different name and even an American redneck could guess that one but he can play those games if he wants.

We are talking about today conman not history. The way your country is run in these modern times is a disgrace whilst at the same time cause wars everywhere, pump money and support into dictatorships who will play ball with your corporate controllers especially the armaments industry. You have more spy agencies and especially on your on people than anyone else. but then you know all this but think that producing another "independent" name that will help the cause. Kind of shows your weakness more than anything else.  Play games but don't insult intelligence young man. Imagine modern America being inncoent and principled when hard facts say something else so don't rant about history this is 2015.

A man commits a murder at age 30. When he turns 50, is he now innocent and trustworthy? Did his crime go away?

You are young and trying but I don't live in a country that tramps around the modern world destabilising nations, attacking those that don't go with you lot and a so-called democratic history that is a farce. This makes it son easy to bash. Too Nationalistic by far. Clever try anonymous but yo cover yourself well as 2 persons!

Meantime I do hope that Russia and China a place you pawn money lot from keep up their stubborn independence from US control and you can do nothing about either. Try concentrating on the internals over there and try getting a leader with 80% rating. No chance!

What's going on in Putin's Russia? A downward spiral.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.bwbx.io%2Fimages%2FiNUBTfcqvMGQ%2Fv1%2F-1x-1.jpg&hash=67e04b0d2d47cd023abc1d729320ab1f" rel="cached" data-hash="67e04b0d2d47cd023abc1d729320ab1f" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://assets.bwbx.io/images/iNUBTfcqvMGQ/v1/-1x-1.jpg)

Because Putin's Russia has yet develop a modern economy and instead as a petroleum based on and has narcissistic, ego maniacal would-be Czar leading the bear off a cliff. He annexed Crimea instead developing a 21st century economy like the communist he is. He passed laws against LGBT "propaganda"  as a pathetic distraction from his country's mounting problems and meanwhile the ex-KGB chief thug clamps down on freedom of the press. And yet you think the problem is that the US wasn't able to carve steaks out the bear's noxious hide. Perhaps you hallucinated that from an overdose of Irn Bru? In fact, the US doesn't have desire to subjugate Russia, but strongly requests that not restrict it's citizen's freedom.

Well double person I already knew you were a Yank (oops) and what a typical brained ex-colonist you are. Putin is not a Communist but a member of the Orthodox and actively suports and encourages that church. Indeed I seen him recently on tv being the guest speaker to a Bishops conference.Communism had no time for relgion.As sensible people outside of the nutjobland already were aware, Russia did not simply annexe Crimea as that place wanted BACK to where it had been until the Reds shoved it into that basketcase, Ukraine. The Russian Federation IS a capitalist country and your country has never came to terms with that because unlike everywhere else in the world (apart from Red China whom you are in debt to and N. Korea) it damn frustrates you that you cannot influence or control it like in general.

As for freedoms, etc the place is far better than under the old dictatorship and you have the nerve to try and show that the USA is democratic and free??! Your media is hand in gloves with the government control freakery, Americans are very clearly misused when it comes to world affairs. Your nationalism is so perverted but try to hide it behind the cosy word 'patriotic.' You have more spy agencies than any other nation your people are spied on electronically, the net, emails, card transactions, phone and you point the finger elsewhere?  It is one thing trying to be clever and have 2 names here on the forum and cleverly the attempt to provoke but an American condemning Russia? Tell that to those who are spied on internally, police brutality, built-in racism, wide scale poverty. You lot recently moaned about China doing electronic spying the very same thing you do but then that is okay as Americans think they have a divine right almost of running the world.

Now you are training the Ukrainian Army but they shouldn't be too pleased in Kiev after the way you did the same with the Iraqi Army (!) It is the nearest militarily you will get to try and face of Russia army-wise but your new controlled land is now having violence in West Ukraine as well as the East, corruption still about, incompetence, etc. So your country has a sham of democracy, world control and on it's own people's rights and all in the usual rubbish of "security." Thanks for the comment on 'old chap.'

Putin is intelligent, clever and Russia by far the majority over there want him. Meanwhile you fit into the usual Joe and the trailing of the old cold War propaganda but then it is so easy to do that in the States with 10 million mentally effected people and the rest leaning gradually that way! Your country is in simple terms a global thug and is NOT the democracy it planned to be and you just have to see what happens inside it all the time which contradicts such a term. Russia will get by and the more it frustrate you dumbells.Well done President Putin!

ps. Me being a monarchist he would make a great Tsar!

by far the majority over there want him.

And in the post 9/11 word, George W Bush enjoyed 80% + approval ratings. Now his policies are seen as a disaster. Like Putin, ol' Georgie dragged the US into pointless wars with no exit strategy against seemingly weak enemies without foreseeing the consequences and fallout. However, unlike in Russia, the America media was free to report the truth that Saddam, as much as bastard as he was, had nothing to do with 9/11 nor did Iraq continue to have the weapons of mass destruction. In short, GWN lied to Congress and the American people and did have the correct intelligence on those issues. It could also be reported that Bush's economic policies, chiefly legalizing financial instruments made illegal because of their large part in causing the Great Depression, played a large part in the depth and severity of the 2008 recession.

Now can the Russia media report that the annexation of Crimea and Russian intervention in Ukraine were based on lies? Considering that the Russian government owns the majority the country's media outlets and it's recent crackdown on bloggers with a following of 3K or more and the attempt to censoring Wikipedia, I think not. Idealization of the man because of his nationalistic stance is very misplaced and any country who's government owns the media and goes after bloggers, etc has something to hide.

By the way, if I was trying to hide who I was, I'd be clever enough to not use "raccoon" in my name. The truth is I deleted my old account "sanguinemoon" one night in disgust. Note that all posts under made under that username are attributed to "guest." I am not a sock puppet nor a "double person" and am unsure if it would even be possible to re-register under the same username.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wFib8VJeOVE%2FUYABT1Qi7eI%2FAAAAAAAAAPY%2FxNUHnzQptcI%2Fs1600%2F3%2Bthumbs%2Bup.png&hash=78f4012195101add3714e0627604e715" rel="cached" data-hash="78f4012195101add3714e0627604e715" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wFib8VJeOVE/UYABT1Qi7eI/AAAAAAAAAPY/xNUHnzQptcI/s1600/3+thumbs+up.png)

The truth is I deleted my old account "sanguinemoon" one night in disgust.

You are the horror writer?
Nights in disgust are bad.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wFib8VJeOVE%2FUYABT1Qi7eI%2FAAAAAAAAAPY%2FxNUHnzQptcI%2Fs1600%2F3%2Bthumbs%2Bup.png&hash=78f4012195101add3714e0627604e715" rel="cached" data-hash="78f4012195101add3714e0627604e715" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wFib8VJeOVE/UYABT1Qi7eI/AAAAAAAAAPY/xNUHnzQptcI/s1600/3+thumbs+up.png)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F38.media.tumblr.com%2F0818c35789eb9ebcd25e69ea55c2e7d8%2Ftumblr_inline_no002dixMF1rq29x2_500.gif&hash=0d2b80b8a40d4865c618310e3fb74465" rel="cached" data-hash="0d2b80b8a40d4865c618310e3fb74465" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://38.media.tumblr.com/0818c35789eb9ebcd25e69ea55c2e7d8/tumblr_inline_no002dixMF1rq29x2_500.gif)

Little Red Riding Hood has met her match. Nasty raccoon! Worse than the Big Bad Wolf.

unsure if it would even be possible to re-register under the same username.

It should be since it was deleted.

And what damn right does America have to think it should control the world?

We're the greatest nation in the world, that's why! Period

We're the greatest nation in the world, that's why! Period

After San Marino, Lichenstein and Monaco.

We're the greatest nation in the world, that's why! Period

Amen to that.  :zip:

We are now at a moment in history when, under God, this nation of ours has become the mightiest temporal power and the mightiest spiritual force on earth. The destiny of mankind hangs in the balance on what we say and what we accomplish in these months ahead.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower, July 11. 1952

You are the horror writer?

Yes. That New Adult Urban Fantasy, which is fantasy in a modern urban setting. Aside from the casinos and high rise hotels and other glittery neon Las Vegas stereotypes, new age types speak of stuff such a ley lines and energy fields and other nonsense in Las Vegas. Nonsense that provides a great excuse to write stories about weird, paranormal things happening here :) The president of my writer's group (http://hendersonwritersgroup.com) himself claims to be a "psychic intuitive." (Henderson is suburb that's also the second largest city in the state with about 250,000 people but we actually met in Las Vegas proper and most of the active members, including myself, live in the main city.) 

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F38.media.tumblr.com%2F0818c35789eb9ebcd25e69ea55c2e7d8%2Ftumblr_inline_no002dixMF1rq29x2_500.gif&hash=0d2b80b8a40d4865c618310e3fb74465" rel="cached" data-hash="0d2b80b8a40d4865c618310e3fb74465" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://38.media.tumblr.com/0818c35789eb9ebcd25e69ea55c2e7d8/tumblr_inline_no002dixMF1rq29x2_500.gif)

That miscreant was arrested on multiple charges stemming from that incident. Red herself is now in therapy over it.

Quote from: krake on 2015-09-01, 12:36:13

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F38.media.tumblr.com%2F0818c35789eb9ebcd25e69ea55c2e7d8%2Ftumblr_inline_no002dixMF1rq29x2_500.gif&hash=0d2b80b8a40d4865c618310e3fb74465" rel="cached" data-hash="0d2b80b8a40d4865c618310e3fb74465" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://38.media.tumblr.com/0818c35789eb9ebcd25e69ea55c2e7d8/tumblr_inline_no002dixMF1rq29x2_500.gif)

That miscreant was arrested on multiple charges stemming from that incident. Red herself is now in therapy over it.

That 'coon went squirrelly!

Mirror, mirror on the wall...
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.toonpool.com%2Fuser%2F5179%2Ffiles%2Fputin_vs_stalin_903555.jpg&hash=f9987a5bc2199a86ea9c3089cf5756bf" rel="cached" data-hash="f9987a5bc2199a86ea9c3089cf5756bf" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.toonpool.com/user/5179/files/putin_vs_stalin_903555.jpg)

This shows how even an educated American can be brained by the propagandist stuff going on in that part democracy called America. Russia is basically a capitalist society but one America cannot control so expect Yanks to be brained into stupidity. It is good to se a nation that cannot be subjugated by that semi-police state of America. Cold War senility example here.

This shows how even an educated American can be brained by the propagandist stuff going on in that part democracy called America. Russia is basically a capitalist society but one America cannot control so expect Yanks to be brained into stupidity. It is good to se a nation that cannot be subjugated by that semi-police state of America. Cold War senility example here.

This shows how even an educated American can be brained by the propagandist stuff going on in that part democracy called America. Russia is basically a capitalist society but one America cannot control so expect Yanks to be brained into stupidity. It is good to se a nation that cannot be subjugated by that semi-police state of America. Cold War senility example here.

You ex-colonists still haven't grown up politically or sensibly at all. You just can't take it when you cannot control a company or get your corporate money lot into a place to make a profit. Fascinating how those in nutjobland who are bright have diatribes  but quick to label others.  :hat:

What else is going on in Russia? Oh yes, a brain drain (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-21/putin-faces-growing-exodus-as-russia-s-banking-tech-pros-flee). Wealthy and successful Russians are fleeing the country, which only natural since they're intelligent.

You ex-colonists still haven't grown up politically or sensibly at all. You just can't take it when you cannot control a company or get your corporate money lot into a place to make a profit. Fascinating how those in nutjobland who are bright have diatribes  but quick to label others.  :hat:

Pot calling the kettle black much? It's kinda funny, because all you seem to do here is rag on everybody else. America is your favorite whipping-boy of course, but seriously-- I don't think I've seen you say much good about anybody outside of Glasgow-- or Moscow of late.

Well maybe mjsmsprt40 your country would not be so easy to nip at if it wasn't the biggest show off and false claim lot on the planet!. It is such a dep nationalistic place that if didn't bum and try to rule the world then it would quickly lose the hypocrisy label. You of course in your comment are like many ex-colonists here and try to dwell on my nips and misuse them becaue in practical terms you lot cannot answer the negatives as they are so many are it is an incapability to be able to answer so wonder off with labelling instead.  Ages ago when I once listed all the negatives there and no answers given just bodyswerving. Keep it up mj you are being traditional!

Been in your country twice as is known and had a pleasant enough time but living init? Nah. I have holidayed in several different countries but the average US Joe cannot do that! Have watched a couple of recent programmes on Portugal which I quite enjoyed and my brother has been there twice and quite enjoyed it. Maybe one day I may add it to my itinerary. So having been about the world more than you probably mjsmsprt40 if I was as you try to mumble that would be a no-no that I don't like anything outside my corner. As for this particular thread President Putin has acted in a ore dignified way with that bloke that pases for the US President and now the US is slowly changing over Russia in the matter of Syria. You spent big bucks onrebel supprt and got nowhere except losee millions. What a farce!  :P  :D

Now Prince Vlad (the Impaler?) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-official-russia-has-started-air-strikes-in-syria_560bd96de4b0af3706de9c5c) is bombing Syria to combat terrorism. Unfortunately, the bombs missed ISIS held areas and hit the other areas instead...

The principle folks is that if it isn't America doing the bombing it is un-principled!

Putin personally drives the first truck over the new longest bridge in Russia: the bridge to Crimea

[video]https://youtu.be/OB1hJ9krkpA?t=665[/video]

Well done Mr President! Crimeans wanted back to where they once were and good that this communication vastly improves things for them.  :yes:

Vladimir Putin: The Real Lessons of the 75th Anniversary of World War II

June 18, 2020

The Russian president offers a comprehensive assessment of the legacy of World War II, arguing that "Today, European politicians, and Polish leaders in particular, wish to sweep the Munich Betrayal under the carpet. The Munich Betrayal showed to the Soviet Union that the Western countries would deal with security issues without taking its interests into account."

Of course, in true Russian fashion, Putin notices how Russia's (actually USSR's) interests were betrayed by the big Western powers, while failing to notice and acknowledge how all greater powers, including USSR/Russia, trample on all smaller countries while playing their own supposedly big games. What follows is from Putin's "self-critical and unbiased" speech about the lessons of World War II.

...the characteristic features of the peoples of Russia is to fulfill their duty without feeling sorry for themselves when the circumstances so demand. Such values as selflessness, patriotism, love for their home, their family and Motherland remain fundamental and integral to the Russian society to this day. These values are, to a large extent, the backbone of our country's sovereignty.

[...]

At the summit of CIS leaders held at the end of last year, we all agreed on one thing: it is essential to pass on to future generations the memory of the fact that the Nazis were defeated first and foremost by the Soviet people and that representatives of all republics of the Soviet Union fought side by side together in that heroic battle, both on the frontlines and in the rear.

This sets the tone from the beginning. Unsurprisingly, not very self-critical or unbiased.

It means that it is indeed high time that we revisited the lessons of the past. At the same time, there were many emotional outbursts, poorly disguised insecurities and loud accusations that followed. Acting out of habit, certain politicians rushed to claim that Russia was trying to rewrite history. However, they failed to rebut a single fact or refute a single argument. It is indeed difficult, if not impossible, to argue with the original documents that, by the way, can be found not only in the Russian, but also in the foreign archives.


Thus, there is a need to further examine the reasons that caused the world war and reflect on its complicated events, tragedies and victories, as well as its lessons, both for our country and the entire world. And like I said, it is crucial to rely exclusively on archive documents and contemporary evidence while avoiding any ideological or politicized speculations.

Good that we agree about the documents. Let's also see if we agree on the selection and interpretation of the documents.

The "Versailles world order" caused numerous implicit controversies and apparent conflicts. They revolved around the borders of new European states randomly set by the victors in World War I. That boundary delimitation was almost immediately followed by territorial disputes and mutual claims that turned into "time bombs".

First, let's note that talking about "Versailles world order" in this manner (which I mostly omitted from quoting) comes dangerously close to hailing Nazis as restorers of justice to Germany.

Second, the current map of Europe is fairly similar to post-World War I map and border disputes are as negligible now as they were then. Post World War I, territorial claims in Europe became a notable military threat only when Hitler and Stalin began making them. Same as now, e.g. annexation of Crimea by Russia is an issue. There are hardly any other border disputes in Europe, certainly not by means of actual land grabs.

The League of Nations and the European continent in general turned a deaf ear to the repeated calls of the Soviet Union to establish an equitable collective security system, and sign an Eastern European pact and a Pacific pact to prevent aggression. These proposals were disregarded.

Naturally there was no way USSR could have convinced anyone of its peaceful intentions considering both its recent and concurrent history, such as propagating the idea of world revolution in all countries of the world by means of initiatives such as Komintern.

Furthermore, in case of the Munich Betrayal that, in addition to Hitler and Mussolini, involved British and French leaders, Czechoslovakia was taken apart with the full approval of the League of Nations. I would like to point out in this regard that, unlike many other European leaders of that time, Stalin did not disgrace himself by meeting with Hitler who was known among the Western nations as quite a reputable politician and was a welcome guest in the European capitals.

While this is all perfectly true, Putin here sets the important undertone of painting Western powers eviler, so that Stalin would look redeemable. In reality, Stalin was at least as irredeemable as others. For lack of opportunity to wreak havoc abroad, Stalin committed crimes against own population in such a scale that others pale in comparison. As opportunity presented itself, Stalin wreaked havoc among other nations also.

Poland was also engaged in the partition of Czechoslovakia along with Germany. They decided together in advance who would get what Czechoslovak territories...

Poland was aware that without Hitler's support, its annexationist plans were doomed to fail.

[...]

Today, European politicians, and Polish leaders in particular, wish to sweep the Munich Betrayal under the carpet. Why? The fact that their countries once broke their commitments and supported the Munich Betrayal, with some of them even participating in divvying up the take, is not the only reason. Another is that it is kind of embarrassing to recall that during those dramatic days of 1938, the Soviet Union was the only one to stand up for Czechoslovakia.

The territory that Poland claimed and then occupied was the Czech half of Cieszyn/Tesin (from Polish perspective - Zaolzie), while 1920 (and current) border divides the area along the river. Here Putin paints Polish annexation of Zaolzie as evil, while Russia's annexation of Poland (up next) is of course painted as quite benign. It's the standard brainwash in Russia - "Look what Poles are doing!" as if Poles were really doing anything of their own or anything of a comparable severity and scale as Russians.

The Munich Betrayal showed to the Soviet Union that the Western countries would deal with security issues without taking its interests into account. In fact, they could even create an anti-Soviet front, if needed.

Nevertheless, the Soviet Union did its utmost to use every chance of creating an anti-Hitler coalition...

Poland played its role in the failure of those negotiations as it did not want to have any obligations to the Soviet side. Even under pressure from their Western allies, the Polish leadership rejected the idea of joint action with the Red Army to fight against the Wehrmacht.

In these circumstances, the Soviet Union signed the Non-Aggression Pact with Germany. It was practically the last among the European countries to do so. Besides, it was done in the face of a real threat of war on two fronts - with Germany in the west and with Japan in the east, where intense fighting on the Khalkhin Gol River was already underway.

Stalin and his entourage, indeed, deserve many legitimate accusations. We remember the crimes committed by the regime against its own people and the horror of mass repressions. In other words, there are many things the Soviet leaders can be reproached for, but poor understanding of the nature of external threats is not one of them. They saw how attempts were made to leave the Soviet Union alone to deal with Germany and its allies. Bearing in mind this real threat, they sought to buy precious time needed to strengthen the country's defenses.

In real life, USSR did not use Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to strengthen the country's defenses against Germany. Instead, Stalin behaved under the assumption that he had perfectly secured his relations with Hitler and was now free to gobble up the Baltic countries and Finland as well as Mongolia, i.e. free from worries on the German front and free to be on the offensive on some other fronts. This manifested itself in the fact how deep Third Reich was able to attack into USSR before it was stopped.

As to Poland again, it was of course absolutely not in Poland's interests to have a similar military pact with USSR as was pushed on the Baltic countries (who accepted it in the hope that their non-aggression pacts with Germany at the same time would somehow contain USSR actions). So here Putin is pretending as if Russia/USSR's interests were legitimate while other countries' interests are either illegitimate, negligible, or perfectly ignorable. In global diplomacy, bigger countries do this all the time and pretend they have the right. No, they only have the might, never the right.

Nowadays, we hear lots of speculations and accusations against modern Russia in connection with the Non-Aggression Pact signed back then. Yes, Russia is the legal successor state to the USSR, and the Soviet period - with all its triumphs and tragedies - is an inalienable part of our thousand-year-long history. However, let us recall that the Soviet Union gave a legal and moral assessment of the so-called Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. The Supreme Soviet in its resolution of 24 December 1989 officially denounced the secret protocols as "an act of personal power" which in no way reflected "the will of the Soviet people who bear no responsibility for this collusion."

Since the 1989 Supreme Soviet resolution was very damning against MRP, it does not help Putin's case in justifying MRP at all. MRP divided the world between Third Reich and USSR the same way as the similarly insane Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494 divided the world between Spain and Portugal.

The Treaty of Tordesillas ignored the other emerging colonial powers England, Holland, and France, not to mention the rights of the peoples that were doomed to undergo colonisation. MRP ignored the rights of all countries and peoples located between Third Reich and USSR and hoped that the Western powers on the other side (France, UK, USA) would stay away from direct action as they had thus far.

Poland's hope for help from its Western allies was in vain. After the war against Germany was declared, the French troops advanced only a few tens of kilometers deep into the German territory. All of it looked like a mere demonstration of vigorous action. Moreover, the Anglo-French Supreme War Council, holding its first meeting on 12 September 1939 in the French city of Abbeville, decided to call off the offensive altogether in view of the rapid developments in Poland. That was when the infamous Phony War started. What Britain and France did was a blatant betrayal of their obligations to Poland.

Later, during the Nuremberg trials, German generals explained their quick success in the East. The former chief of the operations staff of the German armed forces high command, General Alfred Jodl admitted: "...we did not suffer defeat as early as 1939 only because about 110 French and British divisions stationed in the west against 23 German divisions during our war with Poland remained absolutely idle."

Yes, the idleness of Western powers when Poland was attacked was criminal. Similarly their idleness these days in addressing the annexation of Crimea is criminal.

Moreover, in my opinion, World War II was already under way by the time of MRP. Anschluss of Austria was already an act of war and everybody should have treated it with full seriousness. Similarly, annexation of Crimea - and the accompanying "People's Republics" in Eastern Ukraine are acts of war, preceded by frozen war zones of Abkhazia, Transnistria, and South Ossetia, remain unaddressed by EU and NATO. Their failure to address all these as acts of war which is what they are is a conclusive demonstration of their ineptitude and criminal incompetence.

But is Russia really decrying this idleness and ineffectiveness of the Western powers? No, Russia is happily abusing it and keeps pushing the limits.

...the real contact between the Soviet and the German troops [when attacking Poland as per MRP] occurred much farther east than the borders agreed in the secret protocol. It was not on the Vistula River but closer to the so-called Curzon Line, which back in 1919 was recommended by the Triple Entente as the eastern border of Poland.

As is known, there is hardly any point in using the subjunctive mood when we speak of the past events. I will only say that, in September 1939, the Soviet leadership had an opportunity to move the western borders of the USSR even farther west, all the way to Warsaw, but decided against it.

The good old "we did not steal more than this, therefore it was okay to steal" argument. Works fine in Putin's mind.

In autumn 1939, the Soviet Union, pursuing its strategic military and defensive goals, started the process of the incorporation of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Their accession to the USSR was implemented on a contractual basis, with the consent of the elected authorities. This was in line with international and state law of that time. Besides, in October 1939, the city of Vilna and the surrounding area, which had previously been part of Poland, were returned to Lithuania. The Baltic republics within the USSR preserved their government bodies, language, and had representation in the higher state
structures of the Soviet Union.

Again as if Soviet Union's strategic military and defensive goals were in full right to override everybody else's interests, such as smaller countries' modest interest of independence and self-determination within their own territory.

Of course, as there was no "contractual basis" but breach of the non-aggression contracts and there was no "consent of the elected authorities" but replacement of the elected authorities followed by bogus consent for annexation, I actually admire that Putin even dares to bring this up. However, he ends up demonstrating how the history of annexation of the Baltic countries is perceived in Russia. It is at variance even with the official history in the Baltic countries as it was taught in Soviet times. So in a sense we could say that Baltic autonomy in USSR was considerable, as the people preserved their own sense of historicity even throughout the Soviet era. For example, the Stalinist deportations and other persecutions that started along with the alleged "contractual basis" and "consent of the elected authorities" have always been common knowledge, while never acknowledged in Russia under USSR or by Russia to this day.

And already in December, putting aside the warnings of his strategists about the disastrous danger of having a two-front war, Hitler approved the Barbarossa Plan. He did this with the knowledge that the Soviet Union was the major force that opposed him in Europe and that the upcoming battle in the East would decide the outcome of the world war. And he had no doubts as to the swiftness and success of the Moscow campaign.

In my opinion, WWII theatre between USSR and Third Reich worked out as follows. By the beginning of WWII, Stalin had gained absolute powers, decided everything by himself and did not allow anyone to deviate. All strategic decisions, such as complete unpreparedness for Hitler's attack, were due to Stalin. Only gradually, after all the terrible losses, Stalin began giving his generals more power and more autonomy, and that's when battles began eventually working out in favour of USSR.

On Hitler's side it was the other way round. At first he had thoroughly discussed and planned everything with his generals and there was collegial agreement on how to conduct the war. As everything worked out with complete success at first, Hitler began believing in his own absolute infallibility and immortality, and gradually denied consultancy by generals, which eventually spelled the doom of his campaigns.

The war did not come as a surprise, people were expecting it, preparing for it. But the Nazi attack was truly unprecedented in terms of its destructive power. On June 22, 1941, the Soviet Union faced the strongest, most mobilized and skilled army in the world with the industrial, economic and military  potential of almost all Europe working for it. Not only the Wehrmacht, but also German satellites, military contingents of many other states of the European continent, took part in this deadly invasion.

The most serious military defeats in 1941 brought the country to the brink of catastrophe. Combat power and control had to be restored by extreme means, nation-wide mobilization and intensification of all efforts of the state and the people. In summer 1941, millions of citizens, hundreds of factories and industries began to be evacuated under enemy fire to the east of the country.

Of course, and despite much that Putin said earlier, USSR was not ready for this. Stalin's turn of policy from anti-nazism to pro-nazism was intended as sincere and he was not ready for an all-out assault by Hitler and his clients and allies.

For example, according to the secret protocols of MRP, Finland belonged to Stalin, but the fierce military resistance that Stalin had to put up with in Finland was supported by airplanes from Third Reich, because Finland (Mannerheim) was Hitler's ally and did not have airplanes of his own. Stalin complained about this to Hitler a little bit, but still failed to see how these circumstances demonstrated the actual goals and plans of Hitler with regard to USSR, not to mention the fact that smaller countries may have interests too, such as self-preservation instinct.

The Soviet Union and the Red Army, no matter what anyone is trying to prove today, made the main and crucial contribution to the defeat of Nazism. These were heroes who fought to the end surrounded by the enemy at Bialystok and Mogilev, Uman and Kiev, Vyazma and Kharkov. They launched attacks near Moscow and Stalingrad, Sevastopol and Odessa, Kursk and Smolensk. They liberated Warsaw, Belgrade, Vienna and Prague. They stormed Koenigsberg and Berlin.

[...]

Almost 27 million Soviet citizens lost their lives on the fronts, in German prisons, starved to death and were bombed, died in ghettos and furnaces of the Nazi death camps. The USSR lost one in seven of its citizens, the UK lost one in 127, and the USA lost one in 320. Unfortunately, this figure of the Soviet Union's hardest and grievous losses is not exhaustive. The painstaking work should be continued to restore the names and fates of all who have perished - Red Army soldiers, partisans, underground fighters, prisoners of war and concentration camps, and civilians killed by the death squads. It is our duty.

[...]

It saved entire nations from destruction and enslavement, and from the horror of the Holocaust. They were saved at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives of Soviet soldiers.

The good old "we suffered most, therefore all we did is good" argument. Nevermind that much loss of Soviet life was due to e.g. attack-by-manpower-rather-than-gunpower tactic and Soviet own backshooter squads.

The standard ploy is to say "liberate" when they conquer, whereas the enemy is depicted as the aggressor. In reality however, many people on the Soviet-annexed lands of Poland considered Germans as liberators compared to the brief Soviet regime that they had briefly experienced, some considered both regimes oppressive, but nobody on the receiving end considered Soviets as liberators. Soviets were liberators only in their own opinion.

Let's be clear, Stalinism was a totalitarian and highly oppressive and destructive regime. It created Holocausts of its own, bigger by scale than Hitler's. USSR caused most of its own suffering even during the war.

Such figures as Pétain, Quisling, Vlasov, Bandera, their henchmen and followers – though they were disguised as fighters for national independence or freedom from communism – are traitors and slaughterers. In inhumanity, they often exceeded their masters. In their desire to serve, as part of special punitive groups they willingly executed the most inhuman orders. They were responsible for such bloody events as the shootings of Babi Yar, the Volhynia massacre, burnt Khatyn, acts of destruction of Jews in Lithuania and Latvia.

The purpose of this list is one: remove the space from listing Soviet crimes. Of particular interest is Katyn massacre (pl Katyń, ru Катынь), similar but different from Khatyn massacre (pl Chatyń, ru Хатынь). Putin mentions the latter, which was a collective punishment by Nazi collaborators against Belarussian villagers near Minsk after a partisan raid in 1943 i.e. the tide of the war had turned against Third Reich. 156 villagers were killed.

Based on the similarity of the name, Soviet and Russian propagandists (including Putin) routinely bring this up to give the superficial impression that they are addressing all possible crimes, but in reality they do it to hide the Katyn massacre, which was a systematic annihilation of Polish military and administrative elite by Soviets in 1940 i.e. as soon as Poland had been divided and occupied as per MRP. The scale, nature, and severity of Katyn massacre alone rivals the entire Putin's list, indicating a bit of a bias of his listing. Or a bit of historical revisionism that he brings up next.

Historical revisionism, the manifestations of which we now observe in the West, and primarily with regard to the subject of the Second World War and its outcome, is dangerous because it grossly and cynically distorts the understanding of the principles of peaceful development, laid down at the Yalta and San Francisco conferences in 1945. The major historic achievement of Yalta and other decisions of that time is the agreement to create a mechanism that would allow the leading powers to remain within the framework of diplomacy in resolving their differences.

Sure enough Yalta was important in regulating the relations of major powers. At the same time it cemented a permanent dissatisfaction for most non-major powers. It divided the world into client states on either the Soviet side or the Western side and on the remote fronts there was much blood spilt when the major powers tried to gain clients. While post-WWII order defined a cold war between the major powers and allotted clients in their vicinity, a hot continuation of WWII took place in Africa and Far East.

The way WWII played out, it was objectively necessary to have the kind of settlement between the major powers including Russia. But by now the circumstances have changed, most notably the Warsaw Pact and USSR fell apart.

It is a duty of ours - all those who take political responsibility and primarily representatives of the victorious powers in the Second World War - to guarantee that this system is maintained and improved. Today, as in 1945, it is important to demonstrate political will and discuss the future together. Our colleagues – Mr. Xi Jinping, Mr. Macron, Mr. Trump and Mr. Johnson – supported the Russian initiative to hold a meeting of the leaders of the five nuclear-weapon States, permanent members of the Security Council. We thank them for this and hope that such a face-to-face meeting could take place as soon as possible.

What is our vision of the agenda for the upcoming summit? First of all, in our opinion, it would be useful to discuss steps to develop collective principles in world affairs. To speak frankly about the issues of preserving peace, strengthening global and regional security, strategic arms control, as well as joint efforts in countering terrorism, extremism and other major challenges and threats.

In other words, Putin is proposing Yalta 2. The problem is that everybody defines terrorism, extremism etc. from their own perspective. For us Russia's cyberattacks, media manipulation (including historical revisionism on the most high official level as represented by Putin's speech here), creeping military expansion (Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Tiraspol, Crimea and Eastern Ukraine) etc. are exactly the extremism and terrorism to be countered, while Russia would of course pay attention to obliterate this perspective when given the opportunity at a summit a la Yalta 2.

There's much more to be said about this speech. I snipped out a lot. Check out the full-length original https://nationalinterest.org/print/feature/vladimir-putin-real-lessons-75th-anniversary-world-war-ii-162982

On Hitler's side it was the other way round. At first he had thoroughly discussed and planned everything with his generals and there was collegial agreement on how to conduct the war. As everything worked out with complete success at first, Hitler began believing in his own absolute infallibility and immortality, and gradually denied consultancy by generals, which eventually spelled the doom of his campaigns.

What a wonderfully evocative, succinct and clear description.  :up:

Hitler started getting somewhere because he was elected in when democracy still existed in Germany. A year ago I watched a tv programme on Hitler and included a country rally he was speaking at and he actually said there would be no longer any party except his.

As for the gladly gone USSR days Stalin was just as evil as that horrible man before him - Lenin. Indeed Stalin multi-murdered far more in his country than even Hitler did. The other night on YouTube I came across people being interviewed on a Moscow street at the time that marked 100 years since that terrible revolution and got a surprise. Repeated views that the revolution was a mistake and turned out a negative on the country. Another repeat was the horrible murder of the Imperial family which most did not agree with at all. The present attempts to improve their system is in itself a principled stance and there are progressive things in the moves. Seeing they use the old Imperial symbols including the crown symbol and there are senior military units with Tsarist dress uniforms that is a gap!

Seeing they use the old Imperial symbols including the crown symbol and there are senior military units with Tsarist dress uniforms that is a gap!

Actually they used to use more Tsarist symbols under Yeltsin and reverted back to more Soviet symbols under Putin, such as the anthem.

Yes Yeltsin brought the red, white, blue flag back and the Imperial coat of arms but you only have a scant awareness. Can understand why Putin brought the national anthem back as the one concocted wasn't impressive but he did NOT return to the USSR style of things of things so you are a bit off. He even in his time seen the return of Imperial uniforms for senior units on special occasions so with the changes vote on the constitution is modern and very progressive. Russia has improved more under him than Yeltsin who was not in the mind for staying long. The modern and improved Russia was due to him not the convulted attemts the man before him found difficult.  so get the right balance please!

ps. Even the army under him via it's top military band centre in St Petersburg has been selling a whole selection of Tsarist former regimental band music. Have a copy myself and impressive.

Can understand why Putin brought the national anthem back as the one concocted wasn't impressive but he did NOT return to the USSR style of things of things so you are a bit off.

Putin brought back the USSR anthem, specifically. Not a USSR-style anthem, but the exact same anthem that used to be the USSR anthem. And if you check out his full speech that I wrote about in this thread, you will see that he basically worships Stalin. (Not the Czar.)

ps. Even the army under him via it's top military band centre in St Petersburg has been selling a whole selection of Tsarist former regimental band music. Have a copy myself and impressive.

Of course, they have been performing and selling those since Yeltsin times.

Putin grew up in Soviet days and like many even intelligent people just got on with it but he is not trying to bring the USSR back and what he had prepared in that voting situation has been of great support and high percentage that most Russians will like. As for the long gone Tsardom the Orthodox Church is very Tsarist leaning and made the Romanovs saints. The only weird thing was that they have still dragged heels on the remains of the 2 children bodies that were separate from the rest of the family which got a State funeral. Like the Romanov body checks the 2 the boy Alexi and the girl have been confirmed as genuine so my head shakes as to what the Russian Church dragged on the main bodies now et again wanting confirmation of these two,

Anyway Vladimir Putin is very capable and supported and what the country needs as it continually improves.

Vladimir Putin: The Real Lessons of the 75th Anniversary of World War II
https://nationalinterest.org/print/feature/vladimir-putin-real-lessons-75th-anniversary-world-war-ii-162982 (https://nationalinterest.org/print/feature/vladimir-putin-real-lessons-75th-anniversary-world-war-ii-162982)

If you want Putin's epos in extensio, this is a better link (https://nationalinterest.org/feature/vladimir-putin-real-lessons-75th-anniversary-world-war-ii-162982).

Nice retort, but probably with lesser distribution than the original, which got published everywhere, including abridged in the primary Norwegian newspaper.

Quote from: Putin

The Russian president offers a comprehensive assessment of the legacy of World War II, arguing that "Today, European politicians, and Polish leaders in particular, wish to sweep the Munich Betrayal under the carpet. The Munich Betrayal showed to the Soviet Union that the Western countries would deal with security issues without taking its interests into account."

Of course, in true Russian fashion, Putin notices how Russia's (actually USSR's) interests were betrayed by the big Western powers, while failing to notice and acknowledge how all greater powers, including USSR/Russia, trample on all smaller countries while playing their own supposedly big games. What follows is from Putin's "self-critical and unbiased" speech about the lessons of World War II.

That's not what he is playing at. While setting Russia up as a victim of Western powers is a default, here he is defusing the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. The division of Poland between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union is hard to defend with USSR as the victim. If set up with the Betrayal of Munich, the USSR victimhood can be restored.

As most would agree that the Munich Agreement was double-plus-ungood, we're already halfway there.

It is likely also intended to fuel Czech (and to a much lesser extent Slovak) resentments of the same agreement, and its aftermath, and Czechia is a disinformation battleground.

Poland is lost to Russia. If there is one thing the Polish government and the opposition would agree on, it would be Russia.

Poland was over time lost to Russia after the collapse of Tsarism. The USSR was an evil, despicable and hell hole of a place. It done in far more pea film on the speech to a crowd n a field made it very clear there would only be a one-party State! In the Jewish corner they were highly involved in Communism and a fact of history not said much about. The Reds o that dreadful revolution murdered millions people still starved were dispatched to far off parts of the country. Folk had their homes confiscated bank money removed and although thankfully in a sense that evil Lenin did not live long the ignorant not uch of a public speaker Stalin was violently worse. Massive numbers of folk were dispatched to terrible frozen camps in far off Siberia. Numbers vastly outdone similar people sent there pre1917. Many were not in camps before then but courts would order them a period of time they had to just live there. Could decide where they lived and worked then at the end of that term could move back west to that popular end of Russia.

Today the Russian Federation does not automatically have to be like the West just because we want that. They have a range of parties in their Duma and the marking of the 100th year since the terrible assassination of the Royals the parliament all stood up to mark the terrible thing and sadness and even included Communist Party members! I can still recall prior to the collapse of the Reds in the early 1990's how poor the place looked., Shops especially bakers with queues looking not impressive and few cars on the roads. Today mighty traffic jams shops of variety, colour and attraction a modernisation and definitive progress and because not like ours that makes them a fail?!

An article on how Putin became Germany's darling.

The Russian president had only been in office for a year and a half when he addressed the German parliament on Sept. 25, 2001. [...] Putin delivered his speech in German, telling his "colleagues" in German parliament that he was speaking the language of Goethe, Schiller and Kant.

[...]

The Russian leader invoked the "ideas of democracy and freedom" and said that, "Russia is a friendly country. We are making our joint contribution to the construction of the European house," adding that peace on the Continent is the goal.

His speech would be interrupted 16 times by applause, and in several instances, the protocol even notes "merriment." When he finished at 3:47 p.m., the German parliamentarians rose from their seats. From the Left Party to the center-right Christian Democrats, they applauded Putin for several minutes, this new hope bearer for Russia.

And I do not agree with the author's assessment that these lovely times are over. (Putin's) Russia is very duplicitous. So is Germany.

Russia is yearning for a return to bygone times of greatness. Germany is affected by a historical sense of guilt for having caused two world wars, harbouring a particular sense of Schade wrt Russia. These two can still turn the world over a third time.

SPIEF is St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, held less than a month ago. Honoured guests at the economic forum included representatives of Taliban and Donbass republics.

Putin did an insightful speech (https://www.russia-briefing.com/news/president-putin-spief-2022-speech-russia-s-new-business-investment-policies.html) there. The speech included a single illustration.

(https://i0.wp.com/www.russia-briefing.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Russia-Unfriendly-List.jpg)

Yup, the world is rather unfriendly to Russia. Even Japan is unfriendly, so just now 384 Japanese MEPs (about half of total MEPs of Japan's bicameral parliament) got sanctioned (https://ria.ru/20220715/yaponiya-1802777138.html) by Russia.

Japan and South Korea. North Korea is friendly though, so there's that.

Essentially the new expanded NATO, with Australia and New Zealand.

Russian Oil Oligarch Who Criticized Ukraine War “Falls Out of Hospital Window” to His Death (https://ussanews.com/2022/09/01/russian-oil-oligarch-who-criticized-ukraine-war-falls-out-of-hospital-window-to-his-death/)

The page includes a link to a list of other recent suspicious Russian oligarch deaths where sometimes entire families turn up dead.

Happy birthday, Mr. President.

(https://i0.wp.com/www.shkmgmcnuh.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Crimean-Bridge-artists-have-already-installed-a-work-in-the.jpg)

According to Alexey Arestovych (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbvtGktttCU), the explosion on the Crimea bridge is due to Russian infighting and leads to further Russian infighting. There are worse war-mongerers than Putin among Russians, and those war-mongerers deem Putin tragically slow, even though on the right path. According to Arestovych, one of those factions organised the explosion to bring further damage to Putin's image, in order to lead to his replacement. However, Putin may easily cut off a few (more) heads aroud him, as he has not been slow to make pre-emptive moves when it comes to threats against himself personally.

Arestovych is associated with Ukraine's intelligence services, so he has more of an interest to misdirect rather than inform. Still, I think he is the best source to get a sense of the attitude and sentiment of Ukrainians regarding the war.

Today I discovered another lovely news source: Akipress from Kyrgyzstan. Here's how they interviewed Putin a few days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXtj1_-7RHI

Summary:
Q: I just heard one might call you naive. Is this true?

A: Yes, honestly. Despite having worked for security organs for decades, I assumed that the so-called civilised world understood that there is no longer any ideological pushback from Russia, thus no reason for confrontation, and if anything negative happened, such as Western support of terrorists in Russia, I assumed it was only inertia of thought and action of former middle class in Western establishment, who were used to struggle against Soviet Union. This was naive on my part. Reality is that, like Brzezinski (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski) suggested, the West wants to divide Russia in five parts and subjugate the parts to themselves.

Q: While USA leads imperial policies, they also say that if Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, he would attack Nato.

A: I'm sure Biden understands this is completely false, but he maintains it as a figure of speech to hide their erroneous policy with regard to Russia. First, it is erroneous because it does not harmonise with their interests in terms of what they envisioned for mutual relations with Russia decades ago. Second, USA as the master of Nato − Nato is their backyard − should see that Russia has no geopolitical, economic or military interest to wage war with Nato countries. They took Finland and made it a Nato country. We had long ago resolved all disputes with Finland, the relations were most warm and heartfelt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo5ybtBDnbc), but now we will have problems because of confrontation with Leningrad military district. Why are they doing this? This way they are creating artificial problems because they want to outcompete Russia.

Q: How will you spend the New Year's Eve? You said earlier you'd be watching the president's speech. Anything else?

A: Champagne with people close to me and discussions on mundane topics.

Edit: Nice cozy interview I must say. From this one should get a sense of the kind of dude that Putin is. Namely, in my opinion geopolitics is importantly a character study. And then compare it with the kind of character that e.g. Mearsheimer sees in Putin.

The contents of the Tucker-Putin exchange properly belong to this thread.

In contrast to Tucker, who was completely unprepared for Putin, Putin was somewhat prepared for Tucker. In the beginning of the so-called interview, Putin asks if Tucker's "basic education" is in history. That's a yes. And then Putin goes into his "30 seconds or a minute" tirade into history for over 20 minutes. The tirade includes a gift to Tucker from Putin.

The gift is Khmelnitsky's letter and treaty with the Muscovite czar. Why exactly this gift? According to Muscovite interpretation of history, this was the point in history when Ukraine (in the person of its first liberator and unifier Khmelnitsky) signed itself off to Muscovy. Putin does not say it, but he means it: Ukraine belongs to Russia because of those historical artifacts between Khmelnitsky and the czar. This is also how this historical event was taught in Soviet schools. It was called reunification of Russia.

In actual history, there was a bit more to it. Khmelnitsky was more familiar with dealing with the Poles, and when he signed treaties with the Poles, these were equal treaties and both sides swore an oath to each other. Khmelnitsky expected the same from the czar. But the czar's envoys did not pronounce an oath after signing, so Khmelnitsky cursed them and said that the treaty was not valid. In practice, the treaty provided Muscovite protection to Ukraine and Ukraine's allegiance to Muscovy, until the next generation of czars began abolishing any autonomy from Cossacks and Cossacks rebelled, this time against Muscovy, not against Poland any longer.

Moreover, Khmelnitsky and the czar needed translators to communicate with each other. So they were not the same Russians as Putinite historiography would have everyone believe. The entity that Khmelnitsky established is called by most historians the Cossack Hetmanate, whereas Khmelnitsky called himself the autocrat of Rus and saw himself as a descendant of Kievan Rus. Russian czars of the time, on the other hand, called themselves the czars of "Great, Little, and White Russia", which roughly correspond to modern "Russian heartland", Ukraine and Belarus respectively, whereof the czars had no possession of Ukraine and Belarus, just a claim to them. This is why already political commentators of the the time saw Muscovy as full of hubris. But many modern commentators swallow Putinite historianism line, hook and sinker.

Tucker got very uncomfortable during Putin's historical discourse. Apparently Putin's intelligence-gathering had not found out that Tucker actually hates history. Tucker's takeaway from the historical discourse was that Putin's claim to Ukraine was historically motivated, and Tucker said repeatedly, "But why did you make this claim only two years ago? Why not earlier during your 20-year reign?" Thus Tucker demonstrated his complete lack of preparation. Of course Putin has made these historical claims for decades, for anyone who has been paying attention.

Those who have been paying attention, have been doing so differently. For example John Mearsheimer hears what Putin says and concludes, "Oh, Putin says that he wants Ukraine and Baltics etc. We should give him all that and a bit more, lest he starts a war and bombs us." EU biggies also heard what Putin was saying and replied, "Okay, let's build another pipeline so you can amass more castles and yachts. This should cool you down." And Russia's immediate neighbours have been watching in horror the growing threat from the East and the insane hypocrisy from the West closing in.

This is my take on just the first 25 minutes of the interview. It is so repulsive that I can listen to it only in small bits.