An obvious answer, and one which, I suspect, comes to the mind of most of us, is that it recreates some of the most loved functionalities of the Opera Browser.
But there will be other things,
It's not IE or Chrome/variants
It's not Firefox
In other words it's. novel.
But there will be other things out there which should be added/emphasised to improve it's appeal, and this thread is to collect ideas and see where the musings take us.
To get started, what about the whole area of customisation, but customisation for everyone, not just "browser nerds"? How about two levels of customisation, including one that can be applied by the average user (like me!) without knowing knowing every little bit of jargon and all the tricks?
There's a view that I have repeated several times at My Opera and already in these forums too. At version 7.5 or so Opera did a campaign promoting "setups". These were interface customisation packages downloadable from the community website, just like add-ons are these days. To my subjective opinion, this was the single greatest campaign ever and made the My Opera forums explode with membership.
Once downloaded in-browser (just like add-ons these days), the interface of the program changed - and Opera's interface was marvellously malleable. The old setup was retained too, of course. There was a dialogue for switching-selecting the setup to your liking. The program whose interface notably comes with a few such setups is VLC.
For me, interface customisability is an immense attraction. To let non-geeks have some instant taste of it, Otter browser should include a few sensible instantly selectable interface setups out of the box, let's say
- a minimalist setup (more webspace)
- lots of buttons and toolbars
- longer menus
- vi or emacs-like keyboard setups
- ...
And, our humble forum could and should become or point to some place where custom setups are shared among the fan community. Custom setups, custom buttons, bookmarklets, userJS, CSS, whatnot...
Good points ersi.
It should offer the customizing options Opera >12 had (GUI & opera:config).
Speaking of opera:config, I could live without the Speed Dial section. Speed Dial is something nice to have but not essential for a browser.
I like idea of "setups", these could be kind of "meta packages", bundling profile definitions for keyboard, toolbars etc.
First of all, sorry about the porst in the title, it's been edited out.
The idea of of different set-ups is fine and would lend itself to development by specialist Otter contributors? I think that's a good concept.
But, with respect, it's still Nerdy, for enthusiasts,not for the bulk of people out there who (to exaggerate the point just a tiny bit)would be quite happy with a "Quick Start" containing just Facebook. Twitter, U--Tunes, Music downloads maybe email and the odd Football site they could add themselves; and maybe able to add their favourite pop idol as background for all of this.
I don't use Quick Start in Opera - never saw the point for what I did - so in that sense I'm on the nerdy side I suppose, but I want to purse the idea of making Otter more more attractive and, just possibly, a way to bring money into the Otter Project.
So - savour the idea of several different "Quick Start" pages (one would have to call them something different - I'll use "Gates") which could be selected form a menu and which would be developed by the relevant enthusiast from amongst Emdek's army of contributors.
A few obvious examples of Gates would be
Social media
Music
Travel
Internet Shopping
Film Reviews and releases
You could choose any of these as the start up screen. There are, obviously many, and they would take time to grow.
So my concept in that would be Otter being able to claim that it was the "BEST BROWSER TO ACCESS YOUR FAVOURITE ", or "FILM REVIEWS AT YOUR FINGER TIPS".
Obviously this could introduce the possibility of having sponsors who's site was mentioned contributing to Otter's Coffers - on the condition that their link did not dominate the Gate in question. For that reason Otter should take care to remain in the driving seat and not rent out those things to commercial interests.
I can't honestly say that it would be my first port of call, but that's not the point; I'm trying to search for a wider catchment of users.
-------------------------
Regarding mail issue I'm keen on the mail client, it was actually the chief reason I chose Opera. It was a unique selling point.
@string, that's a bit more tricky but could be considered.
@string, that's a bit more tricky but could be considered.
Please note the intent is not to pester you for yet more functionally - you have enough on your plate, especially at this time. This thread is more to provoke people into making their novel suggestions to make Otter more unique and attractive. I'm sure there are good ideas out there!
They can be mulled over and done, or not done in less frenetic times.
As Opera is mainly for power users, I believe a focus on power tools which make it easy to do power user tasks like web development would make it even more convenient than it already is. I believe that if a few changes are made, Otter will become a browser of choice among web developers.
Currently, Opera 12 allows you to edit source and hit Apply Changes which is a soft-reload incorporating the changes you've made. The nicest thing is that if you make changes to any external css files or js files that the web page used, these changes will not be lost upon reload. You'd have to manually go to each css and js page and reload them individually to do that - which is great, as it means your changes wouldn't be lost. This is IMPOSSIBLE to do in Chrome or Firefox because the user is not allowed to open or edit files in the cache. I believe that the practice of disallowing the users from accessing the browser cache is overly restrictive on the user's freedoms. I want to be able to see what I've downloaded. Enough said.
The features missing in Opera 12 currently are:
1. Text Editor features:
Syntax highlighting. Currently there is only limited HTML syntax highlighting, and no CSS or Javascript code highlighting. If we implement the highlighting features available in text editors, for example Notepad++, then coding in Opera will be much nicer.
Code folding. There is no support in Opera for code folding.
Indent style.
Commenting.
Brace matching.
Line numbers.
Search which highlights every matching word - currently opera only highlights one matching word. The more advanced search would highlight all matching occurrences and only stop highlighting when the user closes the search box, so that clicking on an area outside of the search box does not close it or stop the highlighting.
Search which allows for Replace All and Regex.
Search through multiple files at once (search all open files, search all files linked from this file, search all files within the website hierarchy of this file).
2. Version control, autosaving and project management. For each file you should be able to click on a button like "save this as a separate version" that automatically increments the version number. You could also tick a box that says "minor changes" like from 12.0 to 12.01 or untick it to create a new version like 13. Furthermore the browser should keep a track of all the changes ever made to the document, and this list of changes should be persistent in the computer's hard disk so that even after you restart the browser you can still undo any changes you made before you closed it. Changes should be pushed to the hard disk as soon as they are made so as to avoid information loss due to power failure, computer crash or other unpredictable problems. This functionality would be similar to a keylogger except more intelligent - it doesn't log keypresses but changes to the files. There should also be an option to copy the project, with all the associated css, javascript files and so on over to an entirely new project so that you can implement a different set of features without affecting what you've already done. As everything is stored in cache, you should be able to tell the browser to move files in the cache to any folder you want and make the browser remember this change. The browser needs to remember where the cache file for each URL is stored, individually. There should be a "Apply All Changes" button that applies all your changes at once and soft-reloads the website. The browser should switch focus to the reloaded website immediately, like how an IDE that runs a program will automatically give that program focus.
3. Automatic structuring. Otter should be able to look at the source code for a page and immediately create a structure consisting of all the files which the page uses. Furthermore, it should be able to recognize that all javascript share the same execution environment so that one global variable declared in one javascript file can be accessed by other javascript files. Thus, there should be some kind of javascript "panel" that aggregates all the javascripts into one place, in execution order. Users should be able to not only see a list of all the files that the web page uses, the user should be able to click to open the file and immediately begin editing, and also drag multiple files into one window to "merge" them. This would make sense for CSS and Javascript for example, because separating them into different files or combining them into a single file makes no difference as the browser treats them as the same.
4. Better integration with the Inspector. There is currently an "Element Inspector" in most web browsers including Opera which includes a Console where you can see errors, you can click on the line number but you cannot edit it permanently! So it would be great if the ability to directly edit the file and Apply Changes was allowed in the Inspector itself. I know Chrome allows you to edit javascript in the Inspector but that's only after the javascript has already been loaded, which is too limiting for the purposes of web development. Otter should allow you to not only edit javascript and have it updated without reloading, but also edit it and then reload the page with the changes applied.
These are just a few of the changes I thought of. As they are, they are merely enhancements to what is already available in a relatively primitive form in Opera. However, I believe that with these changes Otter has the potential to become a very powerful web browsing/IDE hybrid. It has all the advantages of an IDE combined with all the advantages of a browser. I can definitely foresee this move as making web IDEs obsolete, as it will make web development orders of magnitudes easier.
Good detailed suggestions there, Aspectratio. Developer tools (Dragonfly sometimes, and source code viewer more often) were the things I made use of myself too. It's good to have these tools integrated in a well-considered internet suite.
There's one thing about Opera that prevented many ordinary people to use it as the internet suite of their choice. Namely, "Send file" in a graphical file manager. Windows Mail (earlier Outlook Express), MS Outlook works, Mozillas work under Win, Mac, and often Linux too:
- Select a file in file manager
- Right-click & send file
Opera never worked this way. The email component was not made to work this way.
I realise that it's difficult to make this thing work cross platform. However, when done, the internet suite can comfortably be recommended to any noob, beginner, and one's own granny. Totally fabulous.
Welcome to the Forum, AspectRatio, I hope you enjoy it here.
Welcome. Thank you for your thoughtful post.
Personally I don't see much point with advanced-enhanced developer tools in a webbrowser, but they are inevitable in Otter browser, because:
- Opera had developer tools (source viewer, dragonfly, some debugger thingy), so there's a historical reason right there
- With good functional developer tools included, a new niche browser may acquire an important, probably the most important section of user base
- Creators of software are developers themselves, and when they do something by themselves for free, then more likely for their own use and purpose first of all
Moreover, when the implementation will be properly modular, so that it won't be in the way of mere browsing, then there's no reason why the developer tools should not be there. For parallel, I never understood the people who complained about the inclusion of the e-mail client, when it was really not in the way at all. It was quite hidden from the interface, as it should in case of properly modular approach.
Possibly the best way to achieve a versatile source viewer is to allow external editors to be embedded in the browser. In the old Opera forums I made such a request for the email composer too. I would very much appreciate this ability.
@AspectRatio, sadly most of these ideas cannot be achieved, unless if applied directly to Chromium (so it could be used with upcoming QtWebEngine) or by forking, but I'm afraid that it would be too big burden, even if it would be maintained by combined forces of developers of all Qt based browsers...
Ability to modify cache should be doable (at least with QtWebKit, thanks to QNetworkAccessManager integration) but I doubt that we need such advanced editor built in, syntax highlighting line numbering etc. are easy to do (I've done such widget years ago), but for more advanced editing it might make more sense to allow to edit it in external editor.
Such basic source editor / viewer could be done before beta1, probably as widget belonging to tab, embedded like inspector (using splitter).
Hey y'all. I just found out about the project that is going on here, and I'm excited! Opera is still my favorite browser, but you know what happens.
They had awesome ideas and changed the browsers - but there is no power. When they changed to the chromium-engine I knew that I will have to change the browser of my choise one day.
The only thing I always wanted in Opera was the ability to de- and encrypt mails via OpenPGP, MIME and PGP/MIME. For long years people wrote that into Opera forums and direct mails to the developers, but they were not interested in this project. Maybe that's a feature you could write down to the specific mail-implementation on your feature-list.
Thanks for your doing. Appreciate that.
@iSchulze, yes, we would like to have such features in our mail client module.
On the side note, we would need a dedicated maintainer for that module, as currently our team has to focus on more basic features...
Related ticket: https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/37
Hi
I have been keeping an eye on this project since its conception and I have been running the Alpha versions on Win7. I have now installed the Beta on a 32bit Lubuntu netbook.
I am pleased that Otter is an Open-source project, that sits well with me, and is one thing that Otter offers that Opera sadly never did.
A Mac version is also important to me as my 9-5 work day is usually spent sat in-front of my Mac.
I used to use Opera on Mac, Win & Linux computers and it was my primary browser and I had become rather dependant on the Opera synch facility. I have now changed to Firefox/Chromium and use third party add-ons such as Last-Pass to synch my various browsers. I don't want to put all my egg's in one basket again. So an important feature for me is compatibility with Firefox/Chrome add-on's API.
Native mail-clients and bit-torrents are less important to me as I use other applications for those and I'd rather have a browser that is lighter on resources than full of features I don't use.
The browser interface certainly reminds me of Opera 12. There are a few refinements such as hiding the menu bar and toolbars that would help, especially on a netbook screen. The amount of screen real estate used by the UI is currently considerably more than Firefox uses. Otherwise, it feels familiar and I like it.
@DogMatix, support for Chrome and Firefox extensions is planned (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/42), but it will certainly take some time to be done (at least these APIs that could be supported), sometime after 1.0 release.
Ability to hide menu bar etc. will be done as part of #31 (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/31), hopefully in time of beta 2.
Re: sync feature
A well-built application stores its profile and settings so that they can be conveniently copied to a portable media or uploaded to some private webspace. This is how I synced Opera's settings and profile across multiple machines long before Opera Link existed.
Also, backwards compatibility is important. This is what Opera forgot - willingly - when it "up"graded to Chropera and this cost them pretty much the entire user base. Of course, they didn't seriously mean to remain in browser business anyway, so they don't see it as a problem, but it is a problem for the users. And already in Presto era there were changes to the email storage format that caused issues to users when upgrading/syncing profiles.
In short, users care a lot about the portability of profile and settings, and the compatibility of formats across platforms and app versions. In Otter it's planned to include a feature to import bookmarks from Opera Presto, which is a good start. Let's hope the broader portability and compatibility also receives due attention.
@Emdek Thanks for the links. I have been keeping an eye on Github discussions. Otter seems to be heading in a direction I like and at a fair pace. The stability of my Lubuntu install is impressive, as yet, it hasn't missed a beat. I'm going to keep Otter installed on my Linux netbook and keep tabs on progress.
@ersi Portability is important for me too. I can find myself working in various locations throughout the year and the ability to download a browser, 'log in', synch and have everything at hand, without lugging around a laptop, is useful. But, after being too faithful to Opera synch I felt I got my fingers burned. So I've turned to third-party add-on's that synch across various browsers, such as EverSync, FVD and LastPass.
@ersi, sure, at least bookmarks should be pretty safe already, it's just XBEL plus few extensions. ;-)
When we will ad built-in sync capabilities then it will probably be also using backends, using stuff like ownCloud for storage. Maybe also that Enginio from Digia, AFAIK they wanted to give some megabytes for free.
@DogMatix, I must warn you about this bug in Qt 5.3.0, it's really nasty under Linux, but at least is marked as critical and should be fixed in 5.3.1.
https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-39278
@Emdek I can't seem to replicate that bug at the moment. My netbook is running Lubuntu Utopic & Debian Sid. So it's a bit of a playground machine for me anyway. There are often breakages.
Great new forums/project and finally developers who are willing to listen users. I have already tried new beta version and I'm surprised how fast you could provide us with completely new made browser from the scratch. Nice work. Back to the point in this thread...The list of the most used features in old Opera at least for me:
- bookmark sidebar ;)
- mouse gestures (I always smash with my mouse in other browsers around the table but then I suddenly realize this is not Opera xD)
- search function Ctrl+f
- password manager
Things like stability/compatibility are most important “base” for future extended features support with far more customization options.
@DogMatix, it might depend of installed HarfBuzz version, anyway, it should be fixed soon. :-)
@sam, well, this is why I've chosen Qt, it lets you work faster, thanks to good APIs (at least in most cases) and very good documentation.
Sidebar (or panels, as we call it in TODO) should come before next beta, one of our developers (Chocimier) is missing them badly too (for me they would be more useful after adding RSS reader module ;-)).
Mouse gestures (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/17) aren't far away too, at least if it would be acceptable to use middle button for them (support for right button may come later, due to clash with context menus).
Ctrl+F is already there, AFAIK works without issues.
And yes, passwords manager, one of two main feature requests (other being content blocking), hopefully it will be added before next beta, at least in basic form.
@sam, well, this is why I've chosen Qt, it lets you work faster, thanks to good APIs (at least in most cases) and very good documentation.
Sidebar (or panels, as we call it in TODO) should come before next beta, one of our developers (Chocimier) is missing them badly too (for me they would be more useful after adding RSS reader module ;-)).
Mouse gestures (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/17) aren't far away too, at least if it would be acceptable to use middle button for them (support for right button may come later, due to clash with context menus).
Ctrl+F is already there, AFAIK works without issues.
And yes, passwords manager, one of two main feature requests (other being content blocking), hopefully it will be added before next beta, at least in basic form.
Great. I'm seriously amazed on attitude and dedication to real browsing experience here. It is like “hey it's no problem to do it just wait” :happy: :cheers: I think it is time to completely abandon the sinking Chropera ship and finally FORGET it for good. :rip:
BTW Is it possible/planned to make an option for automatic hide/show sidebar? HAH right click creation of new search engines is working nicely! Also the rendering speed is great. The only missing thing is Slovak translation in installer.
@sam, well, optimism is needed to power up development. ;-)
Maybe it's not yet the best moment to make switch, we still need to work on some basic features, but we are getting closer.
BTW Is it possible/planned to make an option for automatic hide/show sidebar?
Uhm, automatic? :-)
I'm considering optional active edge (clickable, like in older versions of Opera, maybe also with possibility to open it by moving cursor to the edge) and of course action with customizable keyboard shortcut which could be placed also on any toolbar.
Hi - first of all, I'd like to say how much I love this idea, and that I'd like to get involved when I get a bit more time on my hands. I'm still an Opera 12 user right now, as I've been heavily put off switching to other browsers for a number of reasons.
For me, the perfect browser would have:
* Customisability and most of the useful, innovative features of Opera 12. I'm talking the obvious ones, but also more unusual things like spatial navigation (shift+cursor keys) - invaluable when I'm feeling lazy and I'm sat on my bed using my desktop with a keyboard but no surface on which to use a mouse. Easily customisable keyboard shortcuts, as well as more advanced features that are noticeably missing from Opera (vim mode) would also be brilliant.
* Ability to turn off the more controversial features (BLOODY TAB GROUPS AAAAARGH)
* Be an active project with security updates and website compatibility (this will be the thing that gets me to switch away from Opera 12, I can almost guarantee it)
* The general ethos of assuming the user is not an idiot and allowing them to control their own browser. Almost every aspect of the browser should be customisable through an opera:config style page (or config files for things harder to express in this manner), but this should not be relied on for most even vaguely popular features - these should be usable through the GUI. This is what Firefox is currently lacking - see the deplorable checkboxes that kill (http://limi.net/checkboxes-that-kill/) idea. You should not have to rely on add-ons to be able to disable images.
* Unlimited extensibility. This can be through extensions, or simply through a good design and a team willing to accept any patches for well thought-out, useful, well-written and non-intrusive features (that can be disabled!). Preferably both. User Javascript is almost a must, though - just being able to do things within the confines of a webpage is pretty great.
For me, it does not need an email (except RSS) or IRC client, or a torrent client, because I have much better solutions for those - but others differ on this, and I respect their opinions. If you think you can make better ones of these than anything else out there, then by all means go ahead - but in my opinion, the main focus should be on the browser, and if these additional clients (IRC, mail, torrent) really get good enough to compete with the current big players they should also be available standalone for those who prefer a different browser. For me, it does not need skins or themes, only decent desktop integration (which it'll undoubtedly have as a Qt project, given I'm a KDE user).
I probably can't give you a list of ALL the Opera features I use, simply because I use a lot of them, every day, without thinking. It's most noticeable when I try to use another browser, but even then it's more of a subconscious feeling of being restricted or limited than a conscious "this, this and this are missing" type thing. Ones that I have found invaluable in the past are the F12 menu (how useful is that?), keyboard shortcut customisability, context menu customisability, Opera buttons, block content, fit to width, Link, address bar searches (I make HEAVY use of these), RSS feeds, "enable plugins only on demand", site preferences (through the F12 menu), good session management (along with being able to reopen closed tabs, as well as the browser, retaining full history), "Reload every", slash to find in page. This is probably a tiny subset of things I use, and I can't tell you which of these I'd be able to survive losing because I simply don't know.
I don't care about it being "Not Firefox" or "Not Chrome" or even "Not IE". The reason I don't use these browsers is because they are inferior for my needs (Firefox has always been too light on features and too reliant on extensions and is currently getting worse, Chrome/Chromium is even worse in this regard with the addition of privacy concerns, and IE doesn't run on my OS so it's completely off my radar at this stage), not because I have anything actively against the browsers themselves. I don't use Opera just to be different, which is the mistake Opera Software ASA seem to have made. They think that by continuing to produce a browser that is different (even if only in name), they'll retain most of their audience. I don't want different. I want a power user-friendly browser that meets as many of my needs as possible. And Opera 12 is still the best for this.
spatial navigation (shift+cursor keys)
WebKit has something basic built-in:
https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/119
Although we could try to do it better, using some complex algorithm to override it.
I'm not familiar with vim mode so I cannot it until some example will be given ;-)
Ability to turn off the more controversial features (BLOODY TAB GROUPS AAAAARGH)
Can be added, no problem.
I know how annoying it could be when stacks are created accidentally.
Be an active project with security updates and website compatibility (this will be the thing that gets me to switch away from Opera 12, I can almost guarantee it)
Sure, but please note that our upstream (Qt Project) is also responsible for them, they have to fix QtWebKit issues etc.
The general ethos of assuming the user is not an idiot and allowing them to control their own browser.
Exactly, now everyone copies Chrome, which GUI consists only of some basic tab bar, address field and page... Almost no diversity, like it used to be in the past.
We already have about:config, while main pages of Preferences are inspired mostly by Opera, a bit by Firefox (Privacy tab) plus some custom stuff. Advanced tab is more like that from Opera, but not identical (and far from being complete).
Unlimited extensibility
Yes, we would like to support existing extensions (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/42) (post 1.0) and support concept of binary modules, that would allow to optionally use stuff like mail client or even replace default modules like transfers manager etc.
Shortcuts (done), macros (done), menus, context menus and tool bars are / will be defined using INI files, with built-in editor (shortcuts and macros), standalone editor (menus and context menus) or be core part of GUI (tool bars).
For me, it does not need an email (except RSS) or IRC client, or a torrent client, because I have much better solutions for those - but others differ on this, and I respect their opinions. If you think you can make better ones of these than anything else out there, then by all means go ahead - but in my opinion, the main focus should be on the browser, and if these additional clients (IRC, mail, torrent) really get good enough to compete with the current big players they should also be available standalone for those who prefer a different browser. For me, it does not need skins or themes, only decent desktop integration (which it'll undoubtedly have as a Qt project, given I'm a KDE user).
Sure, but it could be a good idea to do it the other way around, like for example ask developers of Trojitá (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojitá) if it would be feasible to put "backend" stuff in some kind of pure Qt library, that could be shared. In case of IRC / IM module I would like to use qpurple (libpurple bindings for Qt) etc.
Ones that I have found invaluable in the past are the F12 menu (how useful is that?), keyboard shortcut customisability, context menu customisability, Opera buttons, block content, fit to width, Link, address bar searches (I make HEAVY use of these), RSS feeds, "enable plugins only on demand", site preferences (through the F12 menu), good session management (along with being able to reopen closed tabs, as well as the browser, retaining full history), "Reload every", slash to find in page. This is probably a tiny subset of things I use, and I can't tell you which of these I'd be able to survive losing because I simply don't know.
All of these features are planned, some are already done (at least in basic form), some should be available in next beta. :-)
I want a power user-friendly browser that meets as many of my needs as possible. And Opera 12 is still the best for this.
Exactly.
I am currently using Opera 12.16 in Windows 8.1.
The features I miss in other browsers is with the tabbing. ie clicking on the current tab takes you back to the last used tab. I don't use the keyboard much and prefer to use the mouse to get around.
2. The ability to store the profile elsewhere rather than on the C drive.
3. Bookmarks are important and especially being able to set a Personal Bar above the Tabs. Together with that the ability to import the tabs in their current format.
I installed Linux Mint (Cinnamon), and I finally managed to get Otter installed. It's amazing.
What prevents me of using it as the browser of choice is poor font hinting. The visual experience inside the browser doesn't match what's in the desktop environment.
True. It has something to do with Qt5 and fontconfig. It might work out better with your distro-provided Qt than with a separate QtCreator download though—I'll have to give that a try because Qt 5.2 is now properly available.
Edit: this Qt bug report might be relevant: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-32254
The features I miss in other browsers is with the tabbing. ie clicking on the current tab takes you back to the last used tab.
This should be done as part of #77 (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/77).
The ability to store the profile elsewhere rather than on the C drive.
This is already available, by using this parameter:
--profile <path> Uses <path> as profile directory
Bookmarks are important and especially being able to set a Personal Bar above the Tabs. Together with that the ability to import the tabs in their current format.
Most of the tool bars (status bar being exception) will be freely movable, and tab bar most probably will also end up as tool bar (currently it's dock, similar kind of widget).
Import of existing sessions is also doable.
Edit: this Qt bug report might be relevant: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-32254 (https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-32254)
Thanks, upvoted, hopefully they will fix it ASAP.
Such issues come from little adoption of Qt5, which will change as soon as KDE5 ill be finally released.
True. ... this Qt bug ...
... is eleven months old. :cry: :wait:
True. ... this Qt bug ...
... is eleven months old. :cry: :wait:
I made an account just so I could vote for it. *fingers crossed*
The features I miss in other browsers is with the tabbing. ie clicking on the current tab takes you back to the last used tab.
This should be done as part of #77 (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/77).
The ability to store the profile elsewhere rather than on the C drive.
This is already available, by using this parameter:
--profile <path> Uses <path> as profile directory
Thanks for the reply.
Not sure what you mean by the profile path. Do you mean this has to be added to the desktop shortcut?
Not sure what you mean by the profile path. Do you mean this has to be added to the desktop shortcut?
If you want to have shortcuts to different profiles, yes.
Right click for properties. The "target" should look something like:
"c:\path\to\otter\otter.exe" --profile "c:\path\to\desired\otter\profile"
NB I don't have Windows at hand right now, so I didn't test the specifics.
I'd like to be able to render web pages through a user-specified CSS stylesheet. I already do this on Opera 12; it allows me to dictate all the fonts used by a web page and even block a few ads. Otherwise I find Otter to be awfully fast when compared to Presto. Darned good work so far!
@tech10171968, so far main blocker for that was fast URL matching, but bajasoft already has working code for that (done for upcoming content blocking), the last part is to decide how we should store these rules (all options that override defaults for specific URL).
Linux - Keep it Open. Keep it Free
The number one feature of Opera for Linux in my opinion was OPERA UNITE .... (Period!). With File Sharing, online storage, cloud computing developing a simple cross-platform means-method of file sharing like former Opera Browser had with UNITE.
Bring back Opera Unite function in Otter Browser please!
Sent from my Opera Browser
Not sure what you mean by the profile path. Do you mean this has to be added to the desktop shortcut?
If you want to have shortcuts to different profiles, yes.
Right click for properties. The "target" should look something like:
"c:\path\to\otter\otter.exe" --profile "c:\path\to\desired\otter\profile"
NB I don't have Windows at hand right now, so I didn't test the specifics.
Thanks for that - I think I have got it working. It seems that Windows still sets a profile under users, but if I delete that in users, Otter remembers what I last did. I suppose that is just the way Windows works.
Bring back Opera Unite function in Otter Browser please!
Uhm, maybe as addon in future, personally I think that this feature should be available as separate product, not built-in in Opera.
I asked my friend who also uses Opera what his most important features are.
1) The ability to have links in the sidebar that open as webpages within the panel (drag a link to the sidebar to see what I mean)
2) The ability to have the "new tab" screen just be a full-screen image (he currently does this by customising speed dial to remove all the foreground elements using opera:config, and having just speed dial's background wallpaper, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind doing it a saner way)
3) Right click + scroll wheel to cycle tabs
4) The ability for the browser to handle the insane number of tabs he usually has open (I've seen him with 200 previously... I don't quite know how he manages, but Opera certainly manages fine)
Hi, I'm new here, Opera user since about version 3.6, because of which I have much hope for Otter and really appreciate the work of the programmers!
Must haves for me are a link function, side panels, mouse gestures, and single key shortcuts (I've tried to define them in Otter Beta1, but it didn't work).
A must really not have for me is a behaviour of Opera that drives me mad: Every time I open an empty tab, type an adress and press enter, the tab in the tab bar gets a few pixels wider in order to show the title - but in the meanwhile I want to click the + right to the tabs in order to open another empty tab, and then Bang! I accidently close the loading tab which has just become wider and now has its closing x where half a second ago has been the + for the new tab.
I hope you get what I mean.
1) The ability to have links in the sidebar that open as webpages within the panel (drag a link to the sidebar to see what I mean)
Can do.
2) The ability to have the "new tab" screen just be a full-screen image (he currently does this by customising speed dial to remove all the foreground elements using opera:config, and having just speed
We want to have it fully editable, so it could be replaced by whatever user want to have.
3) Right click + scroll wheel to cycle tabs
Sure.
4) The ability for the browser to handle the insane number of tabs he usually has open (I've seen him with 200 previously...
Delayed loading can help a lot with that.
Must haves for me are a link function, side panels, mouse gestures, and single key shortcuts (I've tried to define them in Otter Beta1, but it didn't work).
There seems to be an issue with recording single key shortcuts, as the themselves work, but there is another issue upstream:
https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-39714
A must really not have for me is a behaviour of Opera that drives me mad: Every time I open an empty tab, type an adress and press enter, the tab in the tab bar gets a few pixels wider in order to show the title - but in the meanwhile I want to click the + right to the tabs in order to open another empty tab, and then Bang! I accidently close the loading tab which has just become wider and now has its closing x where half a second ago has been the + for the new tab.
Yes, I know, we behave more like Firefox does, not resizing tab size while tab bar is under cursor.
To get started, what about the whole area of customisation, but customisation for everyone, not just "browser nerds"? How about two levels of customisation, including one that can be applied by the average user (like me!) without knowing knowing every little bit of jargon and all the tricks?
Here are my Top 10 feature suggestions:
Level 1 - average user:
1) Vertical Tabs: This has to become the standard view in browsers. When introducing this feature please make it default. Read and heard from many people who miss this Opera 12 feature and don't understand how a horizontal tab bar could become default in every browser. Also, if you ask me, the tabs should preview the site (just like O12 did), thus allowing a quick navigation with the mouse without having to worry about selecting the wrong tab.
2) Sync: ...of pretty much everything, while letting the user select what to sync.
3) Speed Dial: To me, it is important to customize the number of dials. The speed dial should cover the whole page, not just 90% like other browsers (or plugins), allowing quick navigation. Automatic refresh (with custom timers) of the dial images would be nice-to-have, as well as a customizable background image.
4) Automatic browser updates: Nice-to have. At least a notification would be great. (Maybe already implemented, not using Otter Browser long enough)
Level 2 - browser nerds:
1) Gestures: Please just make them customizable (like you did with keyboard shortcuts - loving it!).
2) F12: Site preferences. Especially managing cookies this way, but maybe this is just me. I think the item in the context menu is already there but not enabled right now.
3) Some kind of vertical toolbar (on the opposing site of vertical tabs), preferably the panel as we know it from O12. My ranking regarding the panels: (Mail >) Notes > History > Bookmarks. Mail would be a level 1 feature, I guess.
4-6) Password wand, customizable tab cycle, MIME-Type file association.
1) Vertical Tabs: This has to become the standard view in browsers. When introducing this feature please make it default. Read and heard from many people who miss this Opera 12 feature and don't understand how a horizontal tab bar could become default in every browser. Also, if you ask me, the tabs should preview the site (just like O12 did), thus allowing a quick navigation with the mouse without having to worry about selecting the wrong tab.
Not convinced it should be default. I can see how they would be useful, but I would expect most browser users are just so used to horizontal tabs it's too much of a pain to switch.
I didn't like most of the Opera defaults in later years - every time I reinstalled Opera I would spend a few minutes putting the menu bar back, etc. - you'll just have to live with the fact that there's never a browser that comes with the defaults you love ;)
Not convinced it should be default. I can see how they would be useful, but I would expect most browser users are just so used to horizontal tabs it's too much of a pain to switch.
I didn't like most of the Opera defaults in later years - every time I reinstalled Opera I would spend a few minutes putting the menu bar back, etc. - you'll just have to live with the fact that there's never a browser that comes with the defaults you love ;)
I agree that every browser requires some customization, that's why I love Opera. And that's why I usually don't care about defaults. But the horizontal tab bar is the one thing for which I will blame Opera forever, maybe even more than the discontinuation of Opera 12. The way I remember it, correct me if I'm wrong, all the other browsers introduced tabbing after it was established for some time in Opera (like many of Operas features). If only Opera had presented vertical tabbing as the default, every browser developer would have probably done it this way and the users would have been used to it all along. I have never heard of a single advantage of horizontal tabs over vertical tabs, not even when using a 4:3 monitor.
Regarding the "used to it" point: I was using horizontal tabs for years in Firefox and later in Opera before finding this setting. I never considered switching back so I'm hopeful that other users might be comfortable switching as well. If they are not, I'm sure that "right-click tab-bar -> context-menu -> horizontal tabs" is very intuitive.
Sorry I this is a bit off-topic, I'm just trying to make a point, why the developers should consider setting vertical tabs as the default, if and when introducing this feature ;)
The feature that has kept me most loyal to Opera through the years is HistoryNavigationMode=3. It prevents re-parsing the recently viewed web page on going back to it. Its whole state is cached and it is viewed exactly as it was when I left it. After all, if I want it to be reloaded, I'll do it by myself.
Yes, that's very nice. I suppose Webkit probably doesn't have anything like it.
Yes, I totally agree about the caching. Also, when restarting the browser after closing it, when you have tabs set to load rather than not load until you visit them, they seem to be cached in some way - I'm not quite sure how, but it makes it a little better.
@Juergen, most of these suggestions already have own tickets on github (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues?labels=enhancement&page=1&state=open). :-)
Yes, that's very nice. I suppose Webkit probably doesn't have anything like it.
It has something similar, but only global limit, can be set using
Cache/PagesInMemoryLimit (defaults to 5).
True. It has something to do with Qt5 and fontconfig. It might work out better with your distro-provided Qt than with a separate QtCreator download though—I'll have to give that a try because Qt 5.2 is now properly available.
Edit: this Qt bug report might be relevant: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-32254
Great news! Qt 5.4 will fix this bug.
:hat:
The bad news is that we'll probably still have to wait till the end of the year for Qt 5.4 to land. I suppose you could compile Otter with a dev version of Qt 5.4 right now if you wanted though.
5.0 19 December 2012
5.1 3 July 2013
5.2 12 December 2013
5.3 20 May 2014
You can see there's a pattern of roughly six months between releases. I imagine it's intentional.
Release dates from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_(software)#Qt_5).
@Frenzie, 5.4.0 is planned for end of October, although Alpha is already slightly delayed, it should be out already.
That should give enough time to create preview version of QtWebEngine (Blink) backend in time of 1.0 / beta4 release (depending on progress) in December.
Please note that at least first release of QtWebEngine will have far simpler API than that of QtWebKit so most likely it won't be good enough to be default backend until Qt 5.5 (it won't have QtNetworkAccessManager integration, so lots of features simply won't be available yet).
@Frenzie, 5.4.0 is planned for end of October, although Alpha is already slightly delayed, it should be out already.
A quick search didn't yield any (current) roadmaps with dates for me; thanks for the info. :)
With a search for release date I managed to find http://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt-5.4-release
@Frenzie, yep, some days ago I've heard about August 22 on #qtwebengine, although no builds showed up yet.