The DnD Sanctuary

I've recently read too much about the so-called alt-right. (This (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441319/donald-trump-alt-right-internet-abuse-never-trump-movement) is an example; read the comments, if you don't have a gag-reflex… I kept getting 10 more comments, until — I don't know when! Before I was asked to, the next post -the first before this onslaught- said, simply, "Disgusting!" and I wish I'd paid it the attention it deserved.)
But I myself am a constitutionalist; someone who believes in the "separation of powers" doctrine. A proponent of  "power to the people" — with provisos!
That's the problem: Either there can be no provisos or the Democrats rule…
That's harsh, I know. But recent history has shown that that's what one party wants, and what the "other" party can't stop.

Who would defend the Constitution of the United States?
Democrats? Republicans? Trump? Clinton?
My fellow Americans, we are indeed at a crossroads: If you are unable to see a reasonable path back to our sensible republic, we are -this generation- doomed!
Still, our progeny will (sorry to be the bearer of "bad" news, liberals) outlive us. And they might just out-think us.

Comments?

The alt-right term was coined by white supremacist Richard Spencer. It is not a term made up by "liberal media" nor is it derogatory term for conservatives. It refers to ideologies to the right of traditional conservatism, and actually rejects traditional conservatism. These are Clinton's "deplorables" , motley crew of racists, white supremacists, fascists/neo-nazis, Klan members.  They don't have one set ideology, but white nationalism is very common in this group. It's impossible to be constitutionalist nor a defender of the constitution and be alt-right because their beliefs often run contrary to the constitution. I don't take you for an alt-right person.

To allow them to take power or take too much influence via Trump is the path away from being sensible republic and toward be a totalitarian,  if not literal nazi state. That is not hyperbole; as state in the previous paragraph, literal nazis (again not merely a pejorative) make up decent chunk of the alt-right movement.

I've never quite understood the "white supremacism" thing... I've known a lot of "white" people who were really dumb (and a few that were actually evil); I've also known a fair number (fair enough to let me generalize) of "black" people who were really dumb (and a couple who were actually evil...
I long ago came to what still seems the most sensible conclusion: Until you get to know an individual, you don't know if they're dumb (or evil).

Yes,  Sang, I take your point: "White supremacy" would indeed be an anti-Constitutional ideology. (I'd rather keep the Constitution.)

Thankfully, the so-called alt-right "movement" is not just fringe but miniscule.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rmPckNvD3E&list=RD1rmPckNvD3E&index=1

Of course, I sometimes don't hear everything that's being said... :)

"White supremacy" would indeed be an anti-Constitutional ideology.

Or "Constitutional ideology" would be an anti-"White supremacy" ideology.
Not too much of a difference.

Depends on the constitution, Bel!

Depends on the constitution, Bel!

Immigrate my friend, you have no other option.
In the civilized world, constitutions worths what they worth, ever changing piece of papers.

Not so much, here... A few amendments; only one repealed. :)

Hey, Sang: If you find the time, read this speech (http://archive.is/TOtXX) by…someone I've heard of. :)
It's longer than a HuffPo post, but it's worth your time.

And, if you're still awake or rise the next day and haven't lost interest: Read this short essay (http://www.amren.com/news/2016/10/blacks-and-liberals-want-to-abolish-science/)…from a real Alt-Righter. (It reminds me of a "debate" contest from a few years ago! :) )

Alt-left would be what?  the Black Panthers?

Or "Constitutional ideology" would be an anti-"White supremacy" ideology.
Not too much of a difference.

Incorrect.   The constitution right now provide equal protection under the law for all races/ethnicities and universal suffrage for all citizens over the age of eighteen. This is why I pointed out to Oakdale that an Alt-Right would not be constitutionalist. Those are the obvious amendments that this group of "deplorables" would oppose, provided the idiots the even knew they existed, but there's probably more. 

Alt-left would be what?  the Black Panthers?

The term doesn't exist yet, but most likely, along with communists, Left Anarchists (there are Right ones as well.) There isn't the kind of support the Alt-Right has for Trump among those groups, however. (In fact, some imagery such as Clinton with a Star of David, appears to have originated from Stormfront. This means that some people working with the Trump campaign are likely Alt-Right members. Trump himself tweeted this meme...)

Short answer: No you are not.

Constitutional blabber as usual. Rights and all that farce. When you consider how up till the 1960's black were still not having votes and the constant arguments over the constitution when there is so much practical hypocrisy in all the time it has existed makes one sigh! In WW2 the army HAD to practice segregation although fighting racist regime in Europe. The way a whole part of society is treated, rubbished or gunned down by police nutjobs the constitution doesn't mean a damn in practice. The whole history since the then corporates of the late 18th century got their way the so-called rights and fairness, etc has been brained into people against the truth.

Just another day in Sang-land: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/11/04/1954248/the-fbi-spent-two-years-investigating-an-online-cult-that-didnt-exist

@Howie: :) (If you don't know what that means, in context, I'll use another medium with which you're unfamiliar — plain English.
You'all had a vote about staying in  or leaving the European Union. And (you didn't like the outcome) your inferior court has said, eff-off, you plebes! Now you have to wait to see if your "supreme" court agrees…
Such a "wide" democracy! :)

An un-written constitution is like an un-signed IOU… Bigoted Englishmen expect such from the Scots. Some Americans do, too.

Alt-left would be what?  the Black Panthers?

Well, yeah! But you can't say that — unless you want to and can take being called racist!

@jax: The term means more in Europe than it does here in the U.S.… (Except for people like Sang.) I'm actually closer to what we call here a Paleo-conservative; what you'all used to call classical liberals.

Alt-left would be what?  the Black Panthers?

Nope. It is driven by the same ideology as the Alt-right.
Political orientation is not genetically determined by skin color.

I think alt-idiots are dominating the world.

Don't know why Oakdale is puzzled about white supremacy as his country has practiced it since they were daft enough to go their own way.

And we learned it from — who? :)

You really are a hypocrite when you look at the actual history of your country Oakdale. During your time as a wonderful new democracy (groan) with principles and such they didn't mean a damn to Red Indians or the blacks. You were still stopping black people having a vote right into the 1960's and in the century before what you did to the Indians was shocking. Just thikk all that time as a wonderfully principled place to show the world (groan) you were still doing in Negroes and barring them one h of a time after the revolution two centrepieces or so ago.  So giving a thought to the fact that you introduced a Constitution that didn't mean a damn if now white you really are cracking the biscuit. Even these days well over the two centuries Black folk still suffering worse of in rights, safety from gung-ho police and the rest of the defects you are trying to blame us? Are you so slow that dumbness hasn't been considered?! pitiful so sober up and think.... :whistle:

I think that a particular Scotsman know little of history, but has a bug up his butt about America… You've never explained why.

because you boast like damn mad clowns and have the inherent belief you should rule the world. What makes if all so damn ridiculous is that you create wars, de-stabilise places that do not agree with you or go propaganda mad. Wouldn't be so daft if the boasting wasn't so laughable when you look inside the country.You would not be so open to ridicule if you stopped showing off and trying to run the world when your own internal affairs are a mess. Heavens well over half your debt is owed to COMMUNIST China and you rabbit on about anything outside of your closed grey cells as being Marxist! Oh and over 2,000,000 in jail? hahha, brilliant laugh if it wasn't so serious! Instead of wanting to show off and boast  try being a bit more like the world and be normal.

Instead of wanting to show off and boast  try being a bit more like the world and be normal.

Like a certain Scotsman I know who long ago realized he and his nation were impotent? :)
Perhaps because we are not yet impotent…
(I guess that explains it, eh? :) )

Well I suppose yakking about somewhere else a country is impotent kind of hides the infantile and immatureness of your own. So ten out of ten for that direction. Thanks for helping me remind.

@OakdaleFTL

Being alt-right, are you a #Pizzagate enthusiast too?

Oakdale is just an orphan (politically speaking).
I support him just because I understand that, even in America, or, specially in America, quality is destroyed by quantity.
The problem being he doesn't know how to express himself in European terms.

Hope aliens never land in America first as they will be confused.

are you a #Pizzagate enthusiast too?

Nah! I find such stories (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/311037/pizzagate-podesta-pedophiles/) not worth my time…
And Alex Jones and his InfoWars site are too silly to visit, except for a laugh.

(Yeah, I guess jax was right… :) I can't bring myself to go down that rabbit hole.)

Basically, you have no time to be alt-right. Then you are a nobody.

Oakdale is just an opportunistical Right. American Right.
Americans don't have all the classical education that some Europeans still have.
Unfortunately, european culture can only be seen at a dozen countries. Half a dozen, we live the collapse of european civilization.

we live the collapse of european civilization.

You brought it upon yourselves…

How would you know being an ex-colonist duh land.

Unfortunately, european culture can only be seen at a dozen countries. Half a dozen, we live the collapse of european civilization.

Besides Portugal, what other countries are those?

The South, around mare nostrum.

The South, around mare nostrum.

Greece?

Mare Nostrum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_Nostrum)
Just wonder about the context Belfrager is using the term.  ;)

Well Portugal, Spain, Greece and to a degree, Italy.

Just wonder about the context Belfrager is using the term.  ;)

Very simple Krake, the context that created the European civilization against the hordes of Northerner barbarians.

Simply put for our days, the resistence to the protestant cult and worship of work and money above human dignity, the realization that life is much more than just that materialist lack of values.
That much more, it's called civilization.

As I said, there's not too many places where it can still be lived.
Gone with the wind. Cold northern wind.

Mare Nostrum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_Nostrum)
Just wonder about the context Belfrager is using the term.  ;)

Probably some computer thing in Spain.

Quote from: krake on 2016-12-02, 10:50:55

Just wonder about the context Belfrager is using the term.  ;)

Very simple Krake, the context that created the European civilization against the hordes of Northerner barbarians.

So you did coin a new proprietary usage for the term aside of those mentioned here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_Nostrum). :)

So you did coin a new proprietary usage for the term aside of those mentioned here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare_Nostrum).  :)

Wikpedia is good for you and for the Northern ignorant propaganda.

Mare Nostrum has one and only one meaning, the meaning Romans and Roman based civilizations atributes to it. All the territories around Mediterranean, under Roman occupation, as well in Europe as in North Africa.
That's from where European civilization has emerged after the initial seed from Greece.

All the rest is countryside landscape.
The denial of a civilization war between North and South it's obvioulsy an argument for the Northern invaders and their materialist system of values.
Slaves of money, lovers of ignorance.

Slaves of money, lovers of ignorance.

As opposed to the South: Lovers of slaves, ignorant of money… :)

Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-12-03, 08:32:35

Slaves of money, lovers of ignorance.

As opposed to the South: Lovers of slaves, ignorant of money… :)

Finally a brilliant post from the Sioux. Congratulations. :)
You're almost turning civilized Big Chief Sitting Bull.

You've got your own "Ghost Dance Movement" going, Bel! :)

Does Portugal have anything that might be called an Alt-Right movement? (Don't be shy…)

I suppose former skinheads to be the most "alt-right" thing around here, in terms of being out of the system but they are inexpressive.

The traditional political spectrum is more diverse and wide than the American one, so you can't say we have "alternative" movements of electors. Small anti system parties are in fact part of the system.

So: You embrace your racists and fascists… Interesting! (I suspect Howie also considers that a laudable part of his "wider" democracy! :) )

You don't understand, anti system parties are extreme left parties.

It makes a difference? :)

You tell me, it's you that is speaking about fascists.
I see no fascists in Europe since Mussolini.

I see no fascists in Europe since Mussolini.

:) You saw no fascists before him… You're all Socialist Democrats; hence, you'll revert to fascism. It's in your blood!
Your brains don't work… :)

You're all Socialist Democrats; hence, you'll revert to fascism. It's in your blood!

Fantastic.  :lol:

As easily stated by everybody, never, ever try to engage a conversation about politics with an American, they soon tend to sky rocket into hallucination.

I see no fascists in Europe since Mussolini.

At least no fascists in power.
BTW, what was Franco in your opinion? :left:

Who would defend the Constitution of the United States?
Democrats? Republicans? Trump? Clinton?

Comments?

[irony tag on] Wall Street! [irony tag off]
It's something above Democrats, Republicans, Trump or Clinton. :D

Franco was not an ideological fascist. His regime was an authocratic one that had a few pitoresque fascist notes not uncommon at the time at many other places. Falangists were basically Spanish Nationalists fighting comunists without too much ideological subtleties.

But you can say that Franco was more fascist inclined or tolerant than Salazar.

With the political nonsense Oakdale's land has he has a nerve sniping at somewhere else!

I dare say there will always be arguments about General Franco being fascist and Dr Salazar but I muse that there is something in them being nationalist an maybe a wee bit of fascism creeping in? And what about America back in the days of senator McCarthy that obnoxious weed of a man? He was a virulent nationalist bordering on fascist the way he acted. Democracy? Nah.

It's something above Democrats, Republicans, Trump or Clinton.

Well, it used to be… Didn't it?

With the political nonsense Oakdale's land has he has a nerve sniping at somewhere else!

I assume, RJ, that you take "sniping" as a late night hunt for a creature that doesn't exist… (There's another definition, as your RedCoats found out, long ago! :) ) But you make a good point: Why should anyone other than a vetted Prot and Prog be allowed to say anything?
Well, because we "others" can… And, boy-o, you can't stop us! :)

Is the BLM movement legitimate? Should groups and individuals be censored, because they are "white" (Caucasian is now the "preferred" nomenclature… I'd say we then revert, from "Black" or African-American, to Negro or Negroid… :) Don't you still say Paki?)… Indeed, the so-called Alt-Right is, in some ways, racialist: They resent the denigration of their "race" — which all good Libs refuse to acknowledge as a legitimate biological concept, even as they bemoan "white" privilege!

Myself, I think categorization of people by race is silly. But, in America (and many other places), it's a politically required entry to "serious" discourse…
How did this come about?

Communist propaganda, primarily.
"Class" wasn't working very well… :) They needed a new paradigm.

Except for loonies like Louis Farrakhan (https://www.noi.org/hon-minister-farrakhan/), they mostly made race-relations the main problem. Farrakhan made race the problem: Whites were devils! (Blacks were angels…? :) )

But the odd Scott murder trial bothers me.
How did the officer come to kill the suspect? And for what? (One juror kept the trial from reaching a conclusion… I'm just saying, if  the 11-1 jury had been "mostly" black, what would we be talking about? Damn. I'm disgusted…)

I wasn't in the courtroom and I'm not privy to the evidence presented. But — the officer who shot an unarmed suspect in the back probably needs to spend the rest of his life in prison.

Of course, my opinion doesn't matter (…in case it might come up, in future cases!). I'm white (…actually, pink or orange or tan).

Calm down OakdaleFTL.

Yep, a practical piece of advice Belfrager but I suspect he isn't sober.

Sobriety and stupidity are quite compatible, as well, RJ…

This case is much in the news. Here (https://www.scribd.com/document/332933862/District-Attorney-s-Report-on-Keith-Lamont-Scott-Shooting-Investigation#download&from_embed) are some of the facts that the news (but not the jury) had to deal with.
Is it any wonder, that the so-called Alt-Right feels abused? The main reason the cop was charged was because he was "white"… (Had he been black, he'd have been called an Oreo!) BLM is a terrorist organization, and should be prosecuted as such.

Can you guess what I think of the Southern Poverty Law Center? :)

I can, I can guess what you think about that South item!

, that the so-called Alt-Right feels abused?

A motley crew of fascists, KKK members, racists feel "abused?" Cry me a freakin' river. Or is it that you still don't understand what "alt-right" is yet.

BLM is a terrorist organization, and should be prosecuted as such.

You're learning libel and slander. Excellent skill set for the post-truth Trump presidency. Of course, components of "alt-right" really are terrorists (yes, the KKK is a terrorist organization, as are many other white supremacist groups.) and thus far committed over 700 hate crimes since the election. How many have BLM committed?

Although the KKK and other such nasty groups still exist in hard reality they don't mean much in practice or politics I would say. They are small and no chance of being in real life politics or representation.

components of "alt-right" really are terrorists (yes, the KKK is a terrorist organization, as are many other white supremacist groups.) and thus far committed over 700 hate crimes since the election

700? Wow! And yet every case investigated -that I've seen- turns out to be a "false flag"… But, of course, you have to stick with your narrative! :(
There are prison gangs, of course. (We wouldn't mention the Bloods and the Crips, would we?) Outside of the incarcerated, there hardly seems to be any such thing as a white-supremacist "organization". But the mobs shouting "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!" were just poor put-upon progressives — who meant no harm… They felt aggrieved.
Blacks, Hispanics and Muslims can claim discrimination; the merest glance sideways from an ostensibly white person is enough.
Your SPLC statistics aren't backed up by anything verifiable and you know it. But you don't care: You'd have bought into Manson's insanity…

By the way, how -since you have an undergraduate degree in a "social" science- do you define "hate crime"?

And, if you're an American, don't waste time talking politics with Europeans: They're always less than a year away from war! Let them have at it! We need nothing from them.
We (Belfrager, Howie and others) have different reasons… But NATO needs to go away. (Or Europe needs to become our 51st state… :) )

By the way, how -since you have an undergraduate degree in a "social" science- do you define "hate crime"?

How about when Trump supporters burn churches and write "Heil Trump" and swastikas on it and physically assualt minorities, also invoking Trump's name. Oh I get it. Liberals did all this for your false flag :rolleyes: Wow that Trump-Aide must taste delicious.

Even you must have heard about the violence resulting from "Pizzagate." Many of these "alt-right" people are not mentally stable. Now Trump made personal attacks on Twitter against the Union president at Carrier, who is now getting death threat calls.  I still don't think you understand we're well beyond the usual liberal/conservative bickering and into containing some very dangerous elements. This isn't to say that people that threatened the union president are nazis or even run of the mill racists (we don't know this yet), but Trump has a hardcore of supporters that are not rational and are prone to violence and threats of it. I doubt Trump meant for this to happen, but he needs some sort of filter before somebody gets killed because of his tweets (assumming it hasn't already happened...)

In fact, we don't actually know the size of the national socialist movement at this point, or the number of Klan members. A larger number would be the number of would-be joiners that don't know how yet. Actually we don't even know what you and Howie consider "small." I personally know of a neo-nazi. He was an ex-coworker's boyfriend. By the way, even one percent of the population is still 3,200,000 people.

Typical, Sang: When you don't have the numbers, make them up!

I note that the Greenville, MS, church burning remains unsolved; at least, so Google informs me… It's been more than a month since local police reported having "a person of interest" in custody!
Perhaps the truth runs counter to the preferred narrative?

I note that the Greenville, MS, church burning remains unsolved; at least, so Google informs me.

Did it happen or not? Do you really think all 700 incidents are "false flags?" Why is it that you're sudden invoking the language of conspiracy theorist when he's corned by the slightest bit of logic? I wonder if you now think the Federal government perpetrated the 9/11 attacks? You might as well, if you're reduced to thinking the liberals and progressive are carrying out the spat of attacks.

(https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2016/11/Heil_Trump.jpg&w=1484)

A liberal did this, right?

When you don't have the numbers, make them up!

As far as the numbers of attacks are concerned, the numbers are readily available. As far as the total number of neo-nazis, klan members, etc go;  I never said I had the numbers. Nobody does. That's the point. The Klan used to call itself "the Invisible Empire" because they remain hidden.

As far as the numbers of attacks are concerned, the numbers are readily available […]

Which is why you don't cite your sources: It's another case of "everybody knows"!

A liberal did this, right?

Because so many can't spell? :)
I think  I'll blame ETs. Or poltergeists… Or conservatives! (You remember that arch-conservative Al Sharpton and the Tawana Brawley episode? It hasn't gone away, as far as the liberals are concerned: It fits the narrative!)

Why is it that you're sudden invoking the language of conspiracy theorist when he's corned by the slightest bit of logic? I wonder if you now think the Federal government perpetrated the 9/11 attacks? You might as well, if you're reduced to thinking the liberals and progressive are carrying out the spat of attacks.

I'm still bemused: Why do your language skills deteriorate proportionately as your arguments become more shrill…
Take an ESL course, for crying out loud! (You'd never pass a logic course… :) )

BTW: I was gonna let this one slide, but…

Wow that Trump-Aide must taste delicious.

I've never been a politician, nor a public school teacher! And I don't share your proclivities.
The term should be Trump-Ade… And you should learn how to speak, write and spell your own language. (Or, perhaps I'm wrong: You know another? :) Ignorance is not a language, Sang…)

Did liberals do this?
http://thecrimereport.org/2016/12/06/nyc-mayor-cites-trump-as-hate-crime-reports-double/

New York city’s growing hate epidemic spread yesterday when for the second time in a week, a Muslim woman was taunted on a train and accused of being a terrorist, reports the New York Daily News. Soha Salama, a transit worker, was wearing her uniform and a hijab when a passenger harassed her around aboard a Manhattan-bound train. “He attacked me,” Salama said the Daily News. “He called me a terrorist and told me to go back to your country.” The assailant, described by police as an Hispanic man, then pushed the mother of four as she was walking up a flight of stairs.

Police say hate crimes in the city more than doubled last month, with more than 43 cases, compared with just 20 in November 2015. Mayor Bill de Blasio ripped into Donald Trump, saying the President-elect said horrible things that set the tone of hatred in the U.S. Last month, state Sen. Brad Hoylman was targeted three separate times with anti-Semitic hate. Hoylman found a swastika carved into his Greenwich Village apartment: “Anti-Semite named to Trump White House post. Connect the dogs.” On Nov. 19, a pamphlet featuring a masked figure with a sword slashing through symbols of Islam, peace, the gay and lesbian community and Judaism was sent to his home.

Or conservatives!

You do know that nobody is blaming conservatives. right?  Nope, you sure don't since you don't know the difference between alt-right and conservative.

You do know that nobody is blaming conservatives. right?

Nope! I know you… You'll get there, soon enough: It's what you do! :)
BTW: You can keep any cite to CUNY or SPLC for other readers. They burned their bridges to me long ago.

Still, I will admit that 40+ is damn-near 700… :) (Speaking socialogically.)

So. What's up with that investigation of the MS church burning? Have you heard anything?
(Also, why did the MTA worker file a police complaint — against an Hispanic… Oh, 'kay. Never mind; she's new here. Or not ask Transit cops for help? Again: Okay, she's new here. Another interesting point: The Hispanic who accosted her should have known she was the mother of four…? What, he should have sought someone less fecund? More?
What have the Transit Police or NYPD done? (My goodness! Someone got shoved on the subway… In New York! The horror! And no cameras caught it… Hm.) But damn Fritz! This was the second episode in a week? Are they trying to go into syndication? :)
My guess it, yes they are! The grievance committees are running out of donors… And they're panicking! Club Clinton is no longer a fashionable resort. The Podesta Ponderosa ain't got a Hoss…
What other Democrats ya got left? :)

Are you going to break Charlie Manson out of prison? (Obama's first Atty. General was capable of such perfidy… Lynch isn't. Because she knows O. won't be in office long enough to pardon her; she may be a lot of things, but stupid ain't one of them.) You do remember Manson, don't you?
He wanted to incite a race-war in the U.S., so he said.

He's just like you, Sang: He wants what he wants, and nothing -in his way of thinking- should be allowed to get in his way.
Not rational discussion. Not democracy. Not anything close to morals…

Another point: De Blasio doesn't seem to have a problem with the increase in murder rates in his city, since he ended the highly successful "Stop and Frisk" program… (Methinks very white liberal man speaks with fork-ed tongue!) But I can see his point: After all, most of the dead bodies are black… And who cares about that?
Most certainly not white liberals.
Oddly enough, not BLM protesters, either…
It's a strange world!

But it's the one you want/

But I'll go back to something important, a serious way of viewing the world: https://youtu.be/1rmPckNvD3E
Of course, Libtards don't like this… Except when they do. Or when they've stepped on their dick… Or when they didn't have one to begin with…
But we all know, white people are evil!

(I surely should have given this thread a better title. (Can I change it, at this late date? :) I'd just want it to be "I'm Alt-Right"… See, I didn't even use the word "white"…!))
Still: https://youtu.be/1rmPckNvD3E (https://youtu.be/1rmPckNvD3E) (It's worth hearing again!)

Did liberals do this?

Kids do such things all the time, around here. We don't call them "attacks".

But we all know, white people are evil!

You also know nobody but a few radicals from Nation of Islam and whatnot actually says this. Of course, Trump all but said Hispanics are evil (remember that bit of Mexicans being rapists and murderers...) Of course there are groups that consider Jews and African Americans  to be evil. Idiocy and bigotry knows doesn't respect race. Do you have point not vomited up from some idiotic blog? Do you have any data suggesting the 700+ figure is incorrect? Didn't think so. All you can do is attack the SPLC, while offering no means to question their figures.

We don't call them "attacks".

How's this for an attack?
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/11/19/hate-crimes-michigan-post-election/94089362/

In Grand Rapids, police said Friday they are investigating an incident in which an immigrant from Ethiopia was beaten several times by a man repeatedly yelling "Trump" and using racial slurs,

And it's far the only one. While graffiti , including Nazi imagery  combined with Trump's name, are most common there's also widespread reports of physical attacks.

Yeah, I commented about graffiti. I don't think an intelligent^[1] American adult committed to KKK would go graffitiing all around.
I would not.

I know that midnight raccoon is a strong anti-Trump man and fair enough in the crossing of political swords but I muse that a wee bitty over the top. I have already said that the extremists on the fr right don't amount to a hill of beans and that includes shouting or painting slogans. Even trump's thing about Muslims is overdone to be frank. He did state that those entering the company would be checked first but time after time this is studiously ignored and people fall back on simply barring Muslims end of. Rather subtle  but not quite right. Personally i do not have a lot of time for Islam. And i know only too well before someone rabbits that there are million of moderate ones  but they along with the would-be open mind thinkers studiously ignore the actual life of Mohamed the founder of the thing.  A whole bunch of wives, women treated like rubbish and one of his wives was a girl of Primary school age of around 6/7 so what does that say of the person?  He encouraged violence against opposition and the moderates just act daft. When they try to equate him with Christ it is intelligence insulting and utter nonsense.

For the large numbers of "moderates" who ignore the truth about their wonderful man there are also large numbers of hellish dangerous people and everywhere islam goes it brings them with them. Here every so often arrests and the same elsewhere.  Anyway for all the negatives about Trump let us see what actually happens, eh? You cannot bum about being a great democracy them go bananas. It was simply him or Clinton. The friend of mine who went to live in California decades ago with her husband has been moaning to me about the result and like others there got round to moaning about the college electoral daft thing. Trouble is that that corner of the system has not really been challenged but just accepted and now when democracy doesn't vote a certain way all of a sudden time to argue for that disposal! What a country!

If President Trump turns out to be a practical groan or failure then in four years time you lot in the part democracy can vote him out.

You also know nobody but a few radicals from Nation of Islam and whatnot actually says this

Farrakahn, the leader of the group; Reverand Wright, Obama's pastor for 20 years… :) Hardly anyone worth paying attention to!

Of course, Trump all but said Hispanics are evil (remember that bit of Mexicans being rapists and murderers...)

You are deliberately misunderstanding that, of course! (I know of California cases -quite a few- where repeatedly deported Mexican criminals re-entered the country, in my state, and were caught raping and killing… We're supposed to ignore that?
What a nice fuzzy-warm feeling you must get, ignoring the victims!

But if someone shouts at a liberal, it's a "hate crime"? Even if there's no evidence that it actually happened?
(BTW: You still gave me no definition of "hate crime": Apparently, you mean something that wouldn't be a crime, if it were committed against someone who was white… :) Because Racism! Or Islamophobia, homophobia, misogyny,  [add whatever multi-cult terms you want].

Do you have any data suggesting the 700+ figure is incorrect?

That's how evidence works, for you? I can say that I've found no credible source for such a figure;  of course, I know, that's not enough for you: You throw out a figure and challenge everyone to disprove your contention? :) (You do remember who became famous doing that? That's right: Senator Joe McCarthy… :) )

widespread reports of physical attacks

Perhaps you understand why I'd ask for the number of investigations, and prosecutions… But perhaps not: You might have to question your narrative!
Let me 'splain it to you, Lucy: Crying Wolf! is actually dangerous — because there really are twisted individuals out there! Your short-term political aims (…de-legitimizing  the election and hence the up-coming administration of the candidate who won) are puerile, but quite consistent: You just can't accept that "your" side lost.
You're on the side of the Angels, in which you don't believe, of course!
What you really think is that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid… That's one of the reasons your side lost. :)

Do you think Hillary regrets her "basket of deplorables" comment? Nah. No more than you regret your continual (and unfounded) swipes at — oh, anyone who doesn't share your agenda'd views…
So, suck it up, boy-o! There's little chance that your wet-dream fantasies will come true. You're stuck with a Trump presidency for four years, at least.
And your Democrat Party is falling apart, because the sustaining "planks" in their platform have been rejected by the fringe…

Intermezzo :)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fforgifs.com%2Fgallery%2Fd%2F276308-2%2FTrump-speech-open-mouth.gif&hash=f56d68ae4d489fe5c3e0ba2fa5c79263" rel="cached" data-hash="f56d68ae4d489fe5c3e0ba2fa5c79263" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/276308-2/Trump-speech-open-mouth.gif)
Trump-speech-open-mouth

You are deliberately misunderstanding that,

No. You were clearly saying that white people are evil. According to who? What silliness have you been reading lately anyway?

can say that I've found no credible source for such a figure;

That's because the figure is now outdated. That was only as of Nov 18. But what's credible to you. Some right-wing blog (verses folks that actually have been tabulating the incidents....) Some Youtube video?

Perhaps you understand why I'd ask for the number of investigations, and prosecutions.

So you're demanding that both those conditions be fulfilled for it to count as racial/ethnic violence and harassment. You know as well as I do that if somebody spray paints "Heil Trump" with Nazi symbolism on a church that they burned, the perp is unlikely to be caught.  Likewise if a Muslim woman gets her hijab ripped off and is shoved. But you're trying to deny that this is happening and that these folks have been emboldened by Trump's election. Are your really trying to say that if nobody gets caught, a crime didn't happen?

The world will not accept such a morron as Trump to play as a world player. Nobody.
From North to South, from East to West, the creature has no place.

He will not affect the world, he will destroy the Americans.

You were clearly saying that white people are evil.

You read as well as ever, Sang: Farrakhan, the current leader of the Nation of Islam, and Obama's pastor, Rev. Wright — for two.

So you're demanding that both those conditions be fulfilled for it to count as racial/ethnic violence and harassment. You know as well as I do that if somebody spray paints "Heil Trump" with Nazi symbolism on a church that they burned, the perp is unlikely to be caught.

As usual, you amp up the volume! I made no demand; I merely asked… About perps being caught -specially for the crime of arson- you and I will have to disagree about the effectiveness and efficiency of the police. (Of course, we live in different states… :) Incompetence may be the rule in yours! Although Harry Reid certainly figured out how to become a millionaire by being a politician; but don't feel bad on that account, Feinstein and Boxer haven't done too bad either!)

"Hands up! Don't shoot!" was a crime: A deliberate lie Brown's companion foisted upon Ferguson… And the nation, since it spawned the BLM movement. (And, arguably, the recent spate of cop killings…)
How many of the "reports" tracked by your mysterious "trackers" were hoaxes? You don't know; you don't care.
You like the narrative, so you'll believe whatever you hear that supports it.

The world will not accept […]

Bel, the world always accepts the inevitable! :)

The world will not accept such a morron as Trump to play as a world player. Nobody.
From North to South, from East to West, the creature has no place.

Well, 'the world' did accept G.W. Bush for instance.
What's the big difference from a Portuguese perspective, except that Trump didn't start a new war yet?

Bel, the world always accepts the inevitable! :)

Since when can something inevitable be rejected?
However, a nice rhetorical statement. :)

Bel, the world always accepts the inevitable!  :)

Well, besides the funny contradiction krake has pointed, it seems to me a bit exagerated to look forward to Trump as a Messiah.

You read as well as ever, Sang: Farrakhan, the current leader of the Nation of Islam, and Obama's pastor, Rev. Wright -- for two.

Ohhhhh, two whole people....:p Wow. That's like a massive movement or something. Mostly something :p BTW Wright is longer Obama pastor and hasn't been for a long time and denounced Wright's words and resigned from Wright's church.

Incompetence may be the rule in yours!

You say this and yet you voted for Trump.

, except that Trump didn't start a new war yet?

He doesn't have the authority to, yet. But I'll be pleasantly surprised if he didn't start at least two or three of them.

Ohhhhh, two whole people....:p Wow. That's like a massive movement or something. Mostly something :p BTW Wright is longer Obama pastor and hasn't been for a long time and denounced Wright's words and resigned from Wright's church.

Both are leaders of large movements. Obama did "throw the Rev. under the bus" when word got 'round. :) Politics being what it is!
So: Example are verboten? :) But your speculation is supposed to be swallowed whole-hog? Sounds like your method, alright...

You say this and yet you voted for Trump.

Local police, local government, Sang... Try to keep up!

Since when can something inevitable be rejected?

In political discourse, since forever! :)

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-12-11, 07:44:22

You say this and yet you voted for Trump.

Local police, local government, Sang... Try to keep up!

Did you vote for Trump or not? I thought you said something different earlier. Or was it that the other guy was not available in your state or something like that?

With the kind of candidates that you had this time, it would not have been a dishonour to skip the voting. Between two evils, America chose evil. Because it was inevitable. But you don't have to choose the inevitable. The inevitable comes by itself, because it's inevitable.

Trump's a big boy. He doesn't need your defence. Besides, he won. No reason to be defensive about him at all.

Yes, ersi, I did vote for Trump -- in California, which of course he lost. We also had a U.S. Senator to elect (Boxer having decided to retire...), and the only choices available were two Democrats. So, of course, the most liberal/progressive Democrat won! :)

It's the "basket of deplorables" mentality that is my target. The progressive narrative of racist, this-, that- and the other-phobes, misogynistic excessives; you know, all those haters...
I am pleased that this narrative failed to defeat Trump. And I'm quite happy that Hillary Clinton is effectively retired from American politics.

On that basis you think I'm defending Trump? :)

We also had a U.S. Senator to elect (Boxer having decided to retire...), and the only choices available were two Democrats. So, of course, the most liberal/progressive Democrat won! :)

Which one did you vote for there?

Loretta Sanchez -- not our out-of-her-mind Atty. General, Camilla Harris... This, too, was a "lessor of two evils" race. (BTW, when Sanchez defeated Bob "B1" Dornan in 1996, in California's 46 district -- that's Orange County, down south, including San Diego, by less than 1000 votes, there were serious allegations of vote fraud... :) )

But back to our regularly scheduled programming: As reposted at Pournelle's site (https://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/), I offer

Saturday, December 10, 2016
John Glenn must surely have wondered, as all the astronauts weathered into geezers, how a great nation grew so impoverished in spirit.
Our heroes are old and stooped and wizened, but they are the only giants we have. Today, when we talk about Americans boldly going where no man has gone before, we mean the ladies’ bathroom. Progress.
Mark Steyn

(Steyn is just a recent example of Commonwealth renegades who've realized that our Revolution was both justified and needed; and that the world is better for it.)

Why anyone with half a brain would think that Trump's "Make America Great Again" slogan resonated is beyond me… Progressives have less than half a brain: The have a narrative!
And the rest are in that "basket of deplorables"… :) (I.e, non-Hillary voters! :) )
And, of course, John Glenn was just an old white man.
Hardly ever did anything…

Before we become a majority-minority nation, ya'll better "check your privilege," Progressives.
White people aren't "the enemy"; nor are black people… (I should have used a separate sentence there — so that I could have capitalized "black," to avoid the accusation of "micro-aggression"! :) ) To be explicit: Progressives are the enemy, in my opinion.
Keep your post-colonial Marxist BS on your college campuses. When parents stop paying -and government can no longer afford to pay- for indoctrination, the system will change…
Or the U.S. will fall, after Europe.

Local police, local government, Sang... Try to keep up!

People get away with vandalism, graffiti and even physical violence regardless of the location all the time. All I was noting is that you voted the guy that showed the most incompetence of all recent candidates.

It's the "basket of deplorables" mentality that is my target.

Why is that? Is it to cure your cognitive dissonance that the outbreak of violence by Trump racist supporters of the candidate you voted for is actually happening as predicated? Is this why you attempt to reduce the number of incidents by only counting the ones in which the perps were arrested and found guilty? Some of these alt-right Trump supporters are just itching for Trump to issue them a brownshirt of their very own, hence the Nazi vocabulary and imagery.  Trump does have a "basketful of deplorables." A literal Nazi is deplorable, as is a Klan member, along with wannabes of those groups. This does not mean that all Trump supporters and voters are deplorable, but a hardcore of them are. Ironically enough, to say otherwise is a form of PC.

The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/12/11/bernstein-trump-s-lies-worse-than-nixon-s.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl) notes Bernstein, who broke the Watergate Scandal as saying:

“Trump lives and thrives in a fact-free environment. No president, including Richard Nixon, has been so ignorant of fact and disdains fact in the way this president-elect does,” Berstein said on CNN. “Richard Nixon was nothing, in terms of lying, compared to what we have seen from Donald Trump,” he said, adding that the “growing sense of authoritarianism” from Trump was a cause for concern.

All I was noting is that you voted the guy that showed the most incompetence of all recent candidates.

Except the ones who lost to him? :) Right?

Ironically enough, to say otherwise is a form of PC.

(Don't know why you keep trying to post lists… Maybe you should use both hands to type! :) ) Sang, your contention is that -absent of evidence- anyone who voted for Trump is "alt-right" or "white supremacist" (or, perhaps, that they're dumb!) – No, sir! Your contention is that not everyone is a committed Progressive! Many of "us" have reason to wish Progressivism's demise, as the preeminent political philosophy in our country.
That we're now -for however briefly- in charge is what rankles, for you… Admit it: Confession is good for the soul! :(

Addendum:

adding that the "growing sense of authoritarianism" from Trump was a cause for concern.

We should, of course, pay the utmost attention to "growing senses" and "causes for concern"…
Hey, Sang, get your party to field a better candidate, next time! (You've got such a deep bench… :) Biden and Sanders are spring chickens!)

Here we have an image of Trump making America jackass great again!(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.thedailybeast.com%2Fcontent%2Fdailybeast%2Farticles%2F2016%2F12%2F11%2Fsnl-trolls-trump-imagining-the-world-through-donald-s-eyes%2Fjcr%3Acontent%2Fimage.crop.800.500.jpg%2F49381245.cached.jpg&hash=85949e0c2286aa8394f69819395e7b26" rel="cached" data-hash="85949e0c2286aa8394f69819395e7b26" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2016/12/11/snl-trolls-trump-imagining-the-world-through-donald-s-eyes/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/49381245.cached.jpg)

In fact he is making America jackass again as witnessed by Oakdale claiming that I contend that everyone that voted for Trump is deplorable despite the fact that I singled out the ones that were. Such a primitive black and white mentality.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/10/graydon-carter-donald-trump

Like so many bullies, Trump has skin of gossamer. He thinks nothing of saying the most hurtful thing about someone else, but when he hears a whisper that runs counter to his own vainglorious self-image, he coils like a caged ferret. Just to drive him a little bit crazy, I took to referring to him as a “short-fingered vulgarian” in the pages of Spy magazine. That was more than a quarter of a century ago.

Emphasis mine, of course. Do you why people in the New York, New Jersey area hate him so much. Not so much for is politics, but because they've had to deal with him their whole lives and know what he's like.

I contend that everyone that voted for Trump is deplorable despite the fact that I singled out the ones that were.

You gave generalities -as did Clinton- to taint Trump supporters. And you lost the election!
Will you learn? Probably not.

Do you [wonder] why people in the New York, New Jersey area hate him so much[?] Not so much for [h]is politics, but because they've had to deal with him their whole lives and know what he's like.

I should care, why other people -specially, people in the progressive bubble- hate him? (He also knows them…)
I don't care. I do care about how this country gets beyond the progressive bubble that Democrats have perpetrated and promoted for decades… We are not -yet- Europe!
Hate who you want, Sang. But understand that your hate redounds…

Loretta Sanchez -- not our out-of-her-mind Atty. General, Camilla Harris... This, too, was a "lessor of two evils" race.

I see, so you are a routine chooser of evil. In your own mind, this gives you right to tell everybody else what is right and good. And constitutional.

You gave generalities -as did Clinton- to taint Trump supporters. And you lost the election!
Will you learn? Probably not.

So, you need to hammer on particulars to taint your opponent just to win? America is a totally lost case then.

You gave generalities -as did Clinton- to taint Trump supporters

I noted specific groups that any decent human being would find deplorable. Nobody said all Trump supporters are like that. Of course, you always do go for the straw man.

A modest proposal. California, Oregon, Washington and Nevada should all secede from the Union, under the #westcoastexit plan. Further, I believe that northeastern US should secede as well. Than we can can all laugh as the Rump United States declines into third world status under the leadership of Trumpian jackasses. Seriously, what do we have in common with Alabama besides language? The cultural differences are enough that we should all leave the Union. We're free-thinkers; the red states want a contradictory combination of an authoriatarian regime and small government (without understand this combination is all but impossible...) Keep Trump, we'll choose our own president that isn't an ignorant, thin-skinned, loud mouthed demagogue that posts insanity on Twitter at 3 am :yes: Going back to the OP, we're at crossroads indeed. Perhaps the path we need to choose is for the United States as we know to no longer exist.

I must be alt-left... ...Because I'm backing out of here! :lol: :jester:_ :zip:

I do still think that the Democrats who are constantly moaning, griping and going bananas are making an awful fools of themselves. All the history of boasting about democracy (even thought there are others just as so or better) and the greatness of the "system." but when all the so-called reasonable liberal minds lose they go daft?? Wasn't the event democratic? People who are meant to be educated and such are making a damn fool of themselves. So when one side who were so full of themselves lose then all hell breaks loose  and all they are doing is making a fool of themselves and an even bigger one of their country. Do they fight for the tens of millions who are poor and on food stamps or the armies of homeless? Nope they act very immature instead. I dare say had Trump lost then they would have been out sneering and being sarcastic and virulent.

You are not doing yourself any favours midnight and unlike other places which are democratic and hold referendums on things you have no chance of places leaving even if satirical the 1861 time is a reminder of what happens!

Read this carefully....there was an election one side won and the other lost. that is supposed to be democracy isn't it?

Sang, it's like your side never lost an election before… :)

Are the Panthers still calling for a separate black nation? (A separate nation for each and every imaginable "minority"! That's what we need.)
You should be your own nation, Sang… You already live in your own reality! :)

Wasn't the event democratic?

In fact, no. In a Democracy, in Hillary would have won by over 2,500,000 votes. Instead we have a republican Electoral College, that gave the vote to Trump. It will be interesting to see how many electoral votes Trump actually gets, though. There are already some electors that claim they have no intention of voting for Trump. If they have brass ones to not vote for him remains to be seen.

Sang, it's like your side never lost an election before..

It's not we lost the election. It's that Trump is  unfit to serve  and was widely known before the election to be con man and crook. I've even seen a plan for Hillary to release her electors and get them and 38 other electors to vote in a different, more sane Republican. Since you're easily confused, I have to say I don't see this happening.

Of course, it would still be constitutionally permissible for Hillary to win the electoral college. For non-US citizens, the real election hasn't happened yet as confusing as that might seem. The electoral college was, in fact, set up to prevent a demagogue and would-be tyrant such as Trump from assuming the presidency. Don't get me wrong, in all probability, the Electoral College will vote in Trump, thus proving our system a failure.

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/20/502719871/energized-by-trumps-win-white-nationalists-gather-to-change-the-world?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

Loyalists of the self-described white nationalist, alt-right movement from around the country gathered in D.C. Saturday afternoon, enthused by the election of Donald Trump and optimistic that their controversial, offensive views such as calling for a white, ethnocentric state were on the rise throughout the country.

"The alt-right is here, the alt-right is not going anywhere, the alt-right is going to change the world," Richard Spencer, head of the white nationalist think tank the National Policy Institute (NPI) promised at a press conference.

....

Before Trump, Spencer said, the alt-right was like a "head without a body," but then Trump came along and his campaign became "kind of a body without a head." He described the alt-right as having a "psychic connection" with Trump in way they don't have with other Republicans, and expressed hope that, "moving forward, the alt-right can, as an intellectual vanguard, complete Trump." 

Starting to get it yet, Oakdale? Didn't think so.

....

Spencer was highly complimentary of Trump's first cabinet picks, particularly choosing Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions to be attorney general. Sessions is well-known for his hard-line immigration stances, and has had his own past controversy over race when he was voted down to be a federal judge in 1986 over remarks he'd made about the NAACP and allegedly called a white civil rights lawyer "a disgrace to his race."

He said that while Sessions was not alt-right necessarily, his views on immigration — and a belief that he may not fully enforce some civil rights protections — were encouraging to Spencer.

.....

After most of the cameras and the reporters had left the conference on Saturday, Spencer's tone took a drastic and ugly turn

"Hail Trump, hail our people, hail victory" Spencer exclaimed, as many NPI conference attendees cheered and enthusiastically held their hands up to make a Nazi salute.

"No one will honor us for losing gracefully, no one mourns the great crimes committed against us," Spencer continued, talking about the white race. "For us, it is conquer or die."

He goes on to slam the press, using the term lügenpresse, a German word Nazis used for their media critics, and appearing to target Jews especially in the media.

"One wonders if these people are people at all, or instead soulless golem," Spencer said, referring apparently to the folklore of clay figure brought to life by rabbis in to protect the Jews.

"America was, until this past generation, a white country, designed for ourselves and our posterity. It is our creation, it is our inheritance, and it belongs to us," Spencer continued, drawing a standing ovation and more Nazi salutes.

Yes, these people are quite literally Nazis. They are deplorable. Face the truth, Oakdale.

In a Democracy, in Hillary would have won ...

To begin with - how comes that in the world's most hailed democracy the electorate had the choice between the devil and the deep blue sea? Doesn't smell it fishy to you?

For some, compared to Billary, the Donald looks like a saviour while for others, compared to the Donald, Billary looks like Jeanne d'Arc. :D
To me it looks like a weird spectacle (kudos for those carving out the Orwellian script) reminding of an absurd play written by Eugen Ionescu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugène_Ionesco). :)

Let's put them and BLMers in a cage, and enjoy the carnage! :)

So: Who's your next favored Democrat to vie for the office of POTUS?

Secede, and you don't need one. :)

Crying Wolf! is actually dangerous -- because there really are twisted individuals out there!

Absolutely! We normal folks call them Trumpites.
(https://balcostics.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/smile-1.jpg)

Nazis?? for goodness sake midnight you are I am afraid acting a wee bitty immature. And getting a dig at being possibly democratic then changed your mind because you lost a conducted election? You and so many routinely educated young thinking more highly principled than anyone else because of youth are unfortunately showing an unfortunate immaturity. You had an election and were boasting about it because you were so carried away that you mocked Trump. So what does it say about the country - does it mean that tens of millions over there are brain dead? It was okay to scoff, ridicule and tear into Trump. Fair enough it was an election (!) but you cannot live with losing? Dear, oh dear how politically immature.

Yes, these people are quite literally Nazis. They are deplorable. Face the truth, Oakdale.

150, out of a population of 320 million… I can see why you're scared, Sang! :)
The proportion of homosexual Catholic priests was larger… And look at what happened there! (Or don't: You're okay with diddling children, for your cause? I don't think you are… But you'll argue for such, because -as I've said repeatedly- for you, everything is political!)
The truth is, only your ideological brethren pay them, the neo-Nazis, any attention — again I say, to keep alive a failed narrative.
Normal people don't like looters or arsonists; only liberals do! (But "in a good cause," right? :) )

BTW: Did you confront the one neo-Nazi you knew? Or did you ignore him? Or did you slink away, tail between your legs? :)

Social Justice Warriors, indeed! The Alt-Right is mostly a creation of your side's puerile pandering to people who'd be criminals — if they had the nerve, but instead use the anonymity of "protests" (riots…) to do what they haven't the guts to do otherwise.
Black criminals should get a pass…because they're black, and once upon a time the whole world accepted slavery! Even the U.S.! Especially the U.S.!

You want "white supremacists" to rail against. You'll find them! (Lots of people are stupid!) But you also want to use your idiotic pseudo-logic to make your "tribe" predominant… That ship has sailed, and you weren't on it! :)

(And don't feel too bad, Sang! I have a now nine year old great nephew who doesn't know how to use the word "literally" either… I'll keep trying to educate him. But you're a hopeless case.)

Might I suggest for your consideration as Democratic POTUS candidates: Robert Byrd… Oops! Dead. George Wallace? Oops, again. Hillary Clinton? :)
Joe Biden? Elizabeth "fauxcahantus" Warren? Maybe you'd reconsider Bernie? :)
———————————————————————
An interesting addendum:

At the core of modern leftist-driven political correctness is the idea that the social transgression of holding an unpopular opinion must be met with economic repercussions or legal prosecution.
(source (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442971/conservatives-political-correctness-alex-nowrasteh-wrong?utm_source=jolt&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Jolt%2012/13/2016&utm_term=Jolt))

And, of course, you're okay with that, Sang! :)
Considering how close Trump is to being inaugurated, you might want to re-think  that!

I want our constitutional republic, our commitment to the rule of law and our concept of federalism to persist.

I do think that you only want what you want, Sang…

Since I've become convinced that most here don't "click through" to posted links, here's an interesting piece:

Californians Remain Free to Leave
December 13, 2016 By Jon Coupal

Human beings prefer freedom to collectivism and tyranny. Only those in complete denial disregard the negative consequences of policies that suppress liberty. Consider North Korea versus South Korea. And recall that in Berlin during the Cold War era, people weren’t shot trying to go from West to East – not that anyone tried anyway. Finally, in the course of the last 55 years of the Castro regime, very few people jumped on rickety boats in Miami seeking a better life in Havana.

For those who follow what is happening in the United States – both in politics and with the economy – we can be grateful that even in the most oppressive economic environment – think your typical liberal city such as San Francisco or Portland – people remain remarkably free compared to citizens in many other parts of the world.

One of the freedoms that we Americans enjoy is the freedom to travel. A citizen’s ability to travel from state to state has been deemed by the United States Supreme Court to be a fundamental right that can only be restricted in the narrowest of circumstances. Part of this right is more than just going to another state or country and then returning. It means the freedom to leave. Permanently.

In California, we all know people who have bailed out for places where the taxes are low, regulations are light and the cost of living reasonable. But the evidence here is not just anecdotal.

In a recent piece in the Washington Times, economist Stephen Moore presents an amazing statistic: “Of the 10 blue states that Hillary Clinton won by the largest percentage margins — California, Massachusetts, Vermont, Hawaii, Maryland, New York, Illinois, Rhode Island, New Jersey and Connecticut — every single one of them lost domestic migration (excluding immigration) over the last 10 years (2004-14).”

But here’s the kicker: The exact opposite is true in those states that supported Donald Trump by the largest margin. Those states – including Wyoming, West Virginia, Oklahoma, North Dakota, Kentucky, Tennessee, South Dakota, and Idaho — saw net domestic in-migration.

So what are the characteristics of those Hillary-supporting states that are bleeding productive citizens? Here, Moore doesn’t mince words: “They are the loser states. They are all progressive. High tax rates. High welfare benefits. Heavy regulation. Environmental extremism. Super minimum wages. Most outlaw energy drilling. The whole left-wing playbook is on display in the Hillary states. And people are leaving in droves.” [my emphasis]

For those of us who follow these often wonkish statistics, let’s be clear. We’re not gloating – we’re unhappy. California is a great state with virtually unlimited potential. But the demographic trends are not pretty and when one considers the crushing debt load that looms like a fatal disease, it’s hard not to be deeply concerned.

Is there anything that can save the Golden State? In a very weird way, it is Trump himself who might save California by revitalizing the national economy. That would be ironic indeed. But if that doesn’t happen and the great “California Exodus” continues, the economic death spiral will accelerate. And unlike East Berlin, when productive California citizens decide to leave, there is nothing the Progressives can do to stop them.
(source (http://www.capoliticalreview.com/top-stories/californians-remain-free-to-leave/?utm_source=CAPoliticalReview.com&utm_campaign=b9642588ef-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b855a22bd3-b9642588ef-302961965))

This is from Stephen Frank's site, a well-known Californian political commentator… (You'll understand why I'm interested? :) )

Since I've become convinced that most here don't "click through" to posted links,...

They do, except when there's no reason to. With your links in particular, you don't tell why you link to what you link to and what you mean by linking to it.

...here's an interesting piece:

Interesting in what sense? In what context? For what? For whom? What would we learn from it that we don't already know?

(You'll understand why I'm interested? :) )

This is a whole new level: You managed to copy and paste an entire opinion piece with no hint as to what was supposed to be interesting about it either for you or to anyone else.

Except California, at least for a while was leading the nation's recovery from the Great Recession, and Hardly "a loser" state. (http://www.deptofnumbers.com/gdp/california/)As an independent nation, it would still rank among among the world's most powerful economies, especially with Oregon, Washington, and Nevada added. "Collectivism?" Really? This would seem to disregard the tolerance of different opinions, unlike the social pressure towards cultural conservatism in the Red States. It's no accident that Apple. Microsoft, Google, etc didn't arise in Mississippi or Alabama. It's not interesting, unless you find ignorance and bias interesting.

Now if you did want an interesting piece that takes a close look at Poor white Americans’ current crisis shouldn’t have caught the rest of the country as off guard as it has , (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/09/the-original-underclass/492731/) take a look. Many Trump voters have ancestors that have been poor for centuries, got an economic respite from coal. Then the coal mines shuttered, the ones that remained had workers replaced by machines (something Trump can't "fix" ) There are growing problems of substance abuse and suicide (including in some of the states your article seems to think are winner states, such as Tennessee) These folks have been denignated since the time of the revolution, by none less than Thomas Jefferson.

This part is not in the article. Howie's complaint that Hillary is a Wall Street Democrat (he didn't use those exact words, but this seems to be what he means) has some validity, but Trump has little to no interest in actually helping these people either. He's a real estate billionaire that made billions exploiting  people like this, including finding excuses to not pay his contractors. We probably needed Bernie this whole time, but he would have had a hell of time getting a second New Deal through Congress (you know that hated thing that brought Appalachia out of the 19th century by providing electricity, reliable running water, etc to allow efficient mines and the factories to be built in the first place...)

Maybe people like Sanders are the solution. Bring back at least a large section of Democratic Party back to the Left, back to it's working class roots. New Labour failed in Britain. The New Democrats failed in the US.

Maybe people like Sanders are the solution.

:) Perhaps you could resurrect Lenin? You know, in hopes of getting another Stalin down the road?
————————————————————————————
Liked your link, Sang! Specially their proviso: "Data on deptofnumbers.com is for informational purposes only. No warranty or guarantee of accuracy is offered or implied." Kinda says it all, doesn't it? :)

It's no accident that Apple. Microsoft, Google, etc

Microsoft began in Massachusetts and Washington (Gates and Allen, respectively) but only took off after the New Mexico company MITS bought their BASIC interpreter… (The programming language created by computer scientists at Dartmouth, a New Hampshire college.)
Page and Brin were Ph.D. students at Stanford, so their California roots are easy to explain. Likewise, Wazniak and Jobs lived in California (and, if I recall correctly, both worked for Hewlett Packard…).
BTW: The type of processors used in most cell phones (they're made in GB…) were invented by researchers at UC Berkeley.

Of course, there was Texas Instruments… :)

Your point seems to be that California, which is bleeding businesses, is great — because some very rich people can afford to stay?

Yes, what you referred to is actually accidental!

Secession is not constitutional.

The dreams of of those following foolish paths. Too busy thinking about what can't happen or hasn't happened yet to focus on what can be done to not facilitate it. Trump is ours now. We use the system to mold him. And if that doesn't work... What do you do next? Well, it ain't cry about wanting out of the Union some more.

Trump is ours now

Americans robbed Trump from Europeans...
We want our Trump back.

It was interesting to see how well that Senator Sanders did in a country like America (midnight was right about my view of Clinton)  and of course New Labour did fail here and I do not miss them. Although there are items of constructive enterprise traditions over there I am afraid that there are far too many people for whom the system does not really work in hard daily practice. The number of basic poor is a phenomenal one and growing numbers feeling that what passes for a system is not all that it is cracked up to be and it all flies in the face of the routine stuff about how great and democratic the nation is. 

Both the big two over there are money influenced to heavy proportions and effectively stop a wider democratic input and involvement.  Earlier I referred on at least two occasions that President Eisenhower warned the country about corporate influence and increasing controls of things and he was right. What has come about is a political neo-shambles and a very profound lack of proper and definitive democracy. All the guff of those party circuses makes things look immature and almost infantile when looking in from elsewhere in the world.  A far wider political party situation like many other countries which are democratic and maybe even more so is needed but in it happening is something else. Eisenhower WAS right but nobody bothered and the circus went sadly on. President Obama was no great guyy to be directly honest and there is little to make him stand out in the annals of history. Amidst all the surprises of a President trump happening part of that was due to a great many of the tired getting fed up with the political circus thing and we wil have to be patient and see what actually happens in practice.

Liked your link, Sang! Specially their proviso: "Data on deptofnumbers.com is for informational purposes only. No warranty or guarantee of accuracy is offered or implied." Kinda says it all, doesn't it?

Frankly, its was more than your article deserved. Yes, people are moving from California. We get a whole lot of them in Vegas, a Blue city. Your article seems to ignore the obvious fact that there are struggling red areas and struggling blue areas, and prosperous areas of both colors. I have to agree with Ersi that the blog post that your presented here in its entirety seems to have no point and it's not clear why you did that. BTW, a whole lot of business are struggle until they get break based on a combination of luck and skill. In an extreme example of this, FedEx was about to go under until the CEO won a round of blackjack in Vegas, (http://www.businessinsider.com/fedex-saved-from-bankruptcy-with-blackjack-winnings-2014-7)allowing him to pay for fuel for the trucks for one more week.

Of course, you completely ignored the article of on America's white poor that live in seemingly perpetually depressed areas of the country. What is Trump really going to do for them? It took a Democratic administration to even bring them into the 20th century as the Republicans sneered in their direction. These are the forgotten people of America. Trump knew how to exploit them, but gave only false promises.

Amidst all the surprises of a President trump happening part of that was due to a great many of the tired getting fed up with the political circus thing and we wil have to be patient and see what actually happens in practice.

While there is truth to this, take a look the article about poor white Americans crises article. Our last election might as well be been run run by circus clowns, but that's only the beginning of the problems. It's easy to point of issues in the cities. I can pull into a Seven-11 and get asked for a dollar by a homeless person within sight of the gleaming neon towers of Vegas (Neo-Babylon?) Usually the person that asks me for money is black or hispanic, because of the demographics of the poorer parts of the city. But white, rural Americans are facing the same problems. We face the twin problems of delivering economic growth to depressed inner cities as well areas of the have been poor since before 1776.

Earlier I referred on at least two occasions that President Eisenhower warned the country about corporate influence and increasing controls of things and he was right.

He referred to it as the "military industrial complex." Perhaps Trump is right that we need better relations with Russia. Trump says this because he's pals with Putin. But, we need the money otherwise spent on the MIC to improve conditions within our own country instead of worrying about Russia.

Trump is ours now. We use the system to mold him.

How naive of me. I thought the 'system' is using Trump to mold you. ;)

Well rather unfortunately the legions of the white poor have suffered under the other corporate lot the Democrats so hardly much to argue about in that corner. Donald trump got an awful lot of support right across the place due to as I said so many getting fed up with the DC and Beltway lot. For all his unfortunate comments during the campaign he did touch many who are fed up. So he has no political experience but with so many fed up with what is over there it made a surprising change to find what he did get to.  Let us see how he does in practice eh? All the nonsense from the politico mindsets in DC, etc  take exception to someone who is not part of them so they will have to get on with what the election did. Trump has a more sensible attitude to Russia and some other daftness that the politicians and so-called defence lot in the CIA and other list of would-be controllers. utter childish nonsense on how another country influenced the election. America has done that very thing for decades on other nations but that is in principle okay?? Obama and the DC minds have no proof on Putin and in that area Trump is more sensible. Anyway i do not think that Obama's time in the White house was that great nor leaves a brilliant legacy.

Americans had an election and the man who won it now has to prove himself so let us see how he actually does and if he is a let-down well another circus will come up in four years.

if he is a let-down well another circus will come up in four years.

Ain't that the truth?! (But not in your nation… :) )

Coming up next is "the bonfire of the agencies (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443101/donald-trump-cabinet-challenging-bureaucracy)"! :) (Especially pay attention to Pruitt's nomination to head the EPA. Remind you of anything, RJ? :) )

Trump is ours now. We use the system to mold him. And if that doesn't work... What do you do next? Well, it ain't cry about wanting out of the Union some more.

Yes, he's yours. He breaks it, you buy it.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fm2.22slides.com%2Fbloom%2Fvgkf197jacobsencrop-1846822.jpg&hash=43a88da7453366b686ded539283b2c27" rel="cached" data-hash="43a88da7453366b686ded539283b2c27" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://m2.22slides.com/bloom/vgkf197jacobsencrop-1846822.jpg)

(And I agree. A shotgun divorce to get out of the obligations wouldn't work. California and New York will have to pay up too whatever their marital status. Attempts to turn Russia into the legal guardian are interesting, but unlikely to be successful.)

Secession is not constitutional.

The dreams of of those following foolish paths. Too busy thinking about what can't happen or hasn't happened yet to focus on what can be done to not facilitate it. Trump is ours now. We use the system to mold him. And if that doesn't work... What do you do next? Well, it ain't cry about wanting out of the Union some more.

I'm not as sure about that as you. In 1860, what gave Lincoln the authority to invade the CSA was the fact that rebels had fired on Federal troops, not the mere fact of secession.

However there is no mechanism in the constitution for secession.

I'm not as sure about that as you. In 1860, what gave Lincoln the authority to invade the CSA was the fact that rebels had fired on Federal troops, not the mere fact of secession.

Somehow, we need to figure out a way for Texas to leave the union. :o

Lincoln - the well kinow hypocrit? Apart from hi rather two-faced attitude to black people and the suggestion he had a queer side maybe a better "hero" should have been looked for. I can accept to a degree what midnight says about the CSA war being possibly created by the fact the south fired at Sumpter because that covers the possibility that the US would have invaded the South for breaking off. Maybe in principle it is a negative that seceding is not a democratic possibility but in the matter of Trump there is a massive hypocrisy going on. After all the recent election was held as per the rules so to speak and all those bemoaning the result have little principled stances on the idea of democracy. The process was done by the routine standard that has been long accepted (glad just stuck to over there) then the would-be Democratic corporates get beaten by a corporate republican corner is not right??

The whole thing was as per the traditional rules and system and all those moaning look ridiculous. There was neither any great attempt to deal with the so-called election electronic hijack until Clinton lost then we have been stuck with all this childish and utter ballyhoo that the President of Russia was personally interfering electronically!  President-elect Trump is right to castigate the CIA and FBI. There is no proof and part of the modern false media news nonsense we hear about.  In addition when you consider how long America has been doing the very stuff Russia is being accused of against America it is childishly laughable.  Obama has been on the news waxing lyrical about the so-called "interference" when his country has been doing the very thing for damn decades. Small wonder that Putin has said it is laughable nonsense.

Trump won the election so those that lost for goodness sake live with it and stop all the ballyhoo apart the evnt being interfered with. If there is some  co-operation between Trump and Putin well good and the losing yanks should try and grow up and realise there is a winner and loser in a fair election of a sort. Maybe by the next election the silliness of the Democrat losers might morph into adult sense.

So much trouble about the insignificant Trump.

First he will never get a second election.
Second, he will never finish the first one.

Impeachment will be soon in the agenda.

P.S Not to speak about his "government"...

So many predictions! :)

David Friedman will become Trump's ambassador to Israel. Palestinian reactions once again clearly illustrate the enormous ethical disparity between the state of Israel and its enemies.

A senior Palestinian cleric, Sheikh Ikrama Sabri, said during Friday Prayers that if Mr. Friedman managed to move the embassy to Jerusalem, “the U.S. is declaring a new war on the Palestinians and all Muslim Arabs.”

Saeb Erekat, the secretary general of the Palestine Liberation Organization, told reporters in the West Bank on Friday that Mr. Trump’s appointments were “his business,” but that it was “not up to Trump or anybody else” to take steps like moving the embassy to Jerusalem.

A dangerous appointment given that Friedman called President Obama anti-Semitic for brokering that deal with Iran. On the other hand I'm not so sure if the strategy of appeasing the genocidal Hamas maniacs^[1] is working (who are actually a fairly moderate organization, all things considered), so for the moment I'm willing to reluctantly support Trump's choice. Friedman may have more explicit views than is considered comme il faut, but in a way that's refreshing.

all things considered

Israelis may have a different interpretation of what "all things considered" means. Most Americans think it an NPR Saturday show… :)

(You likely recall my opinions, about… Well, let's just call them the Religion of Peace! I have always maintained that a program of isolation was best. Israel's engagement with its Arab (Muslim) citizens has actually worked well; they, like me and thee would accept people for who they are…But accepting folks who categorically call for the elimination of your people (race? ethnicity?) seems a bridge too far, no? : ) )

I mean compared to other jihadist organizations. Friedman and Hamas aren't on the same scale; even PLO isn't as proved above. And as you said, we're all living in Israel. ;)

The NPR show is good, but it's named after an idoom, not the other way around.

No, Frienzie, we are not all living in Israel. People that live in Israel are living in Israel. A few of your countrymen have died. A few of mine have. Likewise, those of other Europeans.
But Israelis live with the "terror" every day… Because they're maniac neighbors want to kill them.
Why? Well, their holy Koran tells them to! What better excuse could one have?

Geert Wilders may not be a statesman. But he is a sensible man.

Let me tell you a story:
I was working the graveyard shift a a gas station/convenience store. A guy who drove 75 miles to and from his job back when gas was $4.oo+ a gallon was having a hard time making ends meet. He'd also recently been through a divorce. (I didn't know this at the time…)
He hit a deer on a highway, which "totaled" his car. My response was, "Well, you've got a trunk; meat for the winter…" He didn't find it funny, at the time.
Months later, he apologized for being so dour! Saying that I was always "pleasant" with him! I, might I remind you, was a convenience store clerk… That was part of my job, wasn't it?
But this guy who'd been through the wringer was taking the time to apologize to the likes of me, for not being pleasant? Yes, he was.
Because that's how people are.

BTW: That's how people are. He was either black or not. You decide.
But I'd say if you even consider the question, you're not racist; you're just stupid.

And I'm alt-right.

We need to take back the term…

Take back the term? The people who coined it are the ones using it (or more likely moved on, these things are ephemeral), and they can have it. 

WHY I AM CHANGING THE NAME OF OUR PUPPY-BURNING MOVEMENT TO “ALT-WARMTH” (https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/why-i-am-changing-the-name-of-our-puppy-burning-movement-to-alt-warmth)

Moreover, the name “Puppy Burning Movement,” while technically accurate, conveys a simplistic and, frankly, incomplete version of our goals. We’re not out here just looking to fill a school bus with puppies and gasoline, and drive it into a ravine filled with matches and old tires. That’s not us. That’s not who we are. That’s who the people of the Frivolous Puppy Murder Movement are, and as far as I can tell they have no larger policy aspirations whatsoever. The whole thing appears to be pointless. (But maybe that’s just me being judgmental because I’m unable to look past their name. See what I’m saying?) We, on the other hand, have no qualms with puppies per se; we just insist that their highest and best use is as a source of clean, renewable energy for human consumption. The new name makes that clear.

Not to mention that with “Puppy-Burning” right there in the name, we were perhaps excluding those who are potentially okay with using puppies for fuel, but prefer methods other than burning.

But Israelis live with the "terror" every day... Because they're maniac neighbors want to kill them.
Why? Well, their holy Koran tells them to! What better excuse could one have?

That's exactly why we're all living in Israel, whether we realize it or not. Groups like ISIS want to force their religion on all of humanity.

Geert Wilders may not be a statesman. But he is a sensible man.

A man who echoed I am Spartacus even more directly without my conscious knowledge: we are Israel.

"The Palestinians believe – and this is the nature of Islam – that Israel is their country and that they are fighting the non-Muslims in the West through it. The struggle against Israel is a struggle against us. We are Israel. The reason Dutch parents can sleep calmly without having to worry about their kids is that Israeli parents stay awake at night because their children are in the army. This doesn't mean Israel cannot be criticized, but I'm not ashamed to fight for Israel."

Do you think "Muslim" is a race, Frenzie? :)

I still remember reading the book, The Long War… Nothing that's happened since has changed my opinion: Shari'a compliant nations should be shunned.

(Sorry 'bout the title change, but it's been bothering me for quite a while… :) )

Do you think "Muslim" is a race, Frenzie?  :)

Obviously not, but what exactly is that supposed to have to do with anything?

I still remember reading the book, The Long War... Nothing that's happened since has changed my opinion: Shari'a compliant nations should be shunned.

And regardless whether you agree or you disagree with the contents of Sharia law, you can still ascertain whether it has been correctly applied.

No one can ascertain whether Shari'a has been correctly applied, without killing people… The whole history of the religion has shown that.
You Europeans seem obsessed with race…so, I asked is "Muslim" a race? It seems that most of "your" countries have decided that it is. Likewise, "white" has been determined to be a non-race; and, specifically, "white" people of European origin. They should be denigrated, at least.
That's one of the reasons for the Alt-Right… :(

No one can ascertain whether Shari'a has been correctly applied, without killing people...

That's odd, how many people did you kill exactly while:

• Determining that Sharia punishments are outrageously disproportional.
• Determining to what degree countries implement Sharia law correctly.

you Europeans seem obsessed with race

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-12-18, 08:33:23

you Europeans seem obsessed with race

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

It's not a laughing matter. It makes me cry rather how blind Oakdale can be. How is it unclear that yelling "Racist!" - and going to court for it - is a distinctly American thing? Or maybe British thing too, but then it's again an American thing to assume that British peculiarities are broadly European. They are not.

@Oakdale
FYI, in (continental) Europe, the more common buzzword is "nationalist" and "nationalism" rather than "racist". When we say "racist", we really mean races like Negro, Asian, and Caucasian ("Aryan" until the end of WWII), not Muslim, Christian, Moroccan or French or whatever. Here the difference is clear. For you it evidently is not.

Indeed, it is not clear. You'll have always had this problem…

races like Negro, Asian, and Caucasian ("Aryan" until the end of WWII)

That's slightly inaccurate, unless the terminology was used differently in eastern Europe. According to scientific racist terminology^[1] from the early twentieth century we Europeans are Aryans, as are Iranians, Pakistanis and many Indians; the Caucasian subgroups living in northern Africa and the Middle East are Hamitic and Semitic.^[2] All of us Aryans, Hamitics, and Semitics together are Caucasian or "white." The other races are Mongloid and Negroid, or "yellow" and "black."

A nice map illustrating racial distribution can be found in the Meyers Konversationslexikon (http://www.retrobibliothek.de/retrobib/seite.html?id=111177) (scan from the 4th edition; I've got the 6th edition myself).
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.retrobibliothek.de%2Fretrobib%2Fhiresfaksimile_504022.jpeg&hash=94e9097b9d888d2cdb5a26fedf232245" rel="cached" data-hash="94e9097b9d888d2cdb5a26fedf232245" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.retrobibliothek.de/retrobib/hiresfaksimile_504022.jpeg) (http://www.retrobibliothek.de/retrobib/seite.html?id=111177&imageview=true)

Quote from: ersi on 2016-12-18, 09:56:55

races like Negro, Asian, and Caucasian ("Aryan" until the end of WWII)

That's slightly inaccurate, unless the terminology was used differently in eastern Europe.

So you mean "slightly inaccurate" just in terms of the words I use, not in terms of the distinctions I make? I'm familiar with Meyers Konversationslexikon (I have almost entirely read it at the shelves of a guy who has it) and it's good you brought it up, because it's the appropriate authority to go by given the point I was making. Except that the point had to be translated into Oakdalean English.

Thanks for the link too. I didn't know Meyers was being carefully digitised. It's definitely a worthy plan, just like Finnish National Library's project to make their old newspapers searchable http://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi

Shariah. Another corruption growing in Western democracies. On the media not so long ago there was a eport on un-official schools in proverbial back streets full of that junk stuff.

I certainly appreciate that old newspapers are being digitized, for the six people who still read… And that logicians who stopped learning logic 150 years ago feel free to criticize those who didn't!
If you'd prefer the Koran, wouldn't you have to accept the Old Testament? Or the Veda…? (There are American Indian tribes with long-storied traditions…) Seriously, if you have no criteria for truth, why do you bother arguing? Your goal is not convincing; it is domination.
And you know most democrats will do whatever it takes to achieve that!
(Oddly enough, all the varieties of -oh, let's just call it Fascism! No: Let's call it authoritarianism. No: Shall we not call it anything at all? How about, we just throw the bums out? :) Our most recent election here in the U.S. can be seen in that way — except, we seem to have finally recognized that most of the "bums" are Democrats…)
So, now that a non-Democrat populist has won the presidency, populism is vile… :) We survived Andy Jackson and Teddy Roosevelt…
We'll survive Trump.

But the Democrat Party may not.

Here's an interesting (…as always, to me!) take on this problem: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443216/mtv-white-guy-resolutions-are-vacuous-malicious

As far as I know, I'm white. Mom and Dad were both quite capable and willing to dissemble… But what do I care?
I really don't.
I wouldn't have our America "purged" of Negroes. ("Some of my best friends…," you know!) Likewise, the Jews. Pick any other "minority". (Yes, really: Pick any.)

But there's this thing hardly anyone talks about: http://alternative-right.blogspot.com/2016/12/berlin-and-why-i-am-white-inferiorist.html
(Click the "more" button, unless you prefer the Twitter version—in which case, how'd you get this  far into my post? :) )

The Alt-Right is indeed a construct of the Left, designed to further encourage the feelings of incompetents, complaining of discrimination as the cause of all their woes.

How interesting is this new view?
Not much; Europe long ago accepted it…But not intellectually: Europe has rejected intellect altogether!

I expect Merkel to apologize to the the Muzzies that killed 12 and maimed 52, for being German… How dare they, she would agree! Celebrating Christmas! For Christ's sake, what's wrong with these people!

I think you should take a trip to Europe, you might learn as much about the continent as rjhowie learned about the US on his journey there. Your understanding of Europe has shown deficiencies.

One of which seems to be the misapprehension that Mother Merkel is overly apologetic. The killer in question incidentally is a Scania, headquartered in Södertälje, my hometown. A R450 to be exact.

https://youtu.be/E89APsnFRHQ

Hey, Sang, remember that racist burning of a black church, complete with "Vote Trump" graffiti? Well, an arrest has been made (http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2016/12/21/mississippi-church-burning/93282352/)…

Yup! Seems like a "hate crime" to me!

About that Alt-Right stuff, Taki Theodoracopulos reminds us:

As Peter Brimelow said, if the Jews have the Anti-Defamation League, and the Hispanics La Raza, why can’t whites have an organization to stop them from being marginalized and beleaguered? The trouble is, they don’t. Richard Spencer’s followers are about 300 souls, which in a way makes me laugh. I had 450 people come to my Collapse of Communism Celebration at the Savoy 25 years ago, and at a moment’s notice. Stop crying wolf, you old hag. [The reference is to the New York Times…]
(source (http://takimag.com/article/front_page_bogeyman_taki/print))

(You're very quiet lately, Sang… :) )

Having been in America twice, visited Europe, I would agree that Oakdale should visit the place but could he stay sober enough not to miss the plane??

:) I'd love to visit Europe and GB; and many other places. But I've always been poor, and -outside of the U.S.- unwilling to wander without means… Within, I always felt comfortable: I could always find work.

I used to work on planes when I was a kid. Should I miss one, it would be because of bureaucracy. (Although the crew chief who saw me leave Edwards Air Force Base did remark, "You know, Don, I always expected you to walk into a propeller…" :) I'm not sure if he meant that as a joke.)

:) I'd love to visit Europe and GB; and many other places. But I've always been poor, and -outside of the U.S.- unwilling to wander without means… Within, I always felt comfortable: I could always find work.

RJ will be happy to accommodate you. He needs a drinking buddy. And then you'll see a little bit of the world outside, finally.

Richard Spencer's followers are about 300 souls, which in a way makes me laugh.

It makes me laugh that he thinks it's only 300 people. In fact, he has 28,400 (https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) just on Twitter. You do understand these blogs you follow just make shit up, right? Further the jackass is seriously comparing the Anti-Defamation League to people that are literally Nazis? Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously, what...the...fuck?  Oh, he's a member of the the Greek fascist Golden Dawn party. Wonderful source you got there, Oakdale :rolleyes:

You do understand, Sang, that Twitter is for trolls…? People who take Twitter "followers" figures seriously ought not be allowed out, unless they're on a leash!
(Since you seem to be otherwise occupied —good for you, BTW!— yes, I include the President-Elect in that category… :) )
Taki does know what he's talking about… Whereas you continue to huff and puff.

So, what do you think of the developments in Greenville? Aren't you even a little bit abashed?

Only problem ersi is that I don't drink alcohol!

Having visited the ex-colonies more than once and Europe a few times I think a place tempted to be would be St Petersburg but if Oakdale gets out of the place there could be a passing problem...he might faint!  :worried:

But I've always been poor, and -outside of the U.S.- unwilling to wander without means... Within, I always felt comfortable: I could always find work.

Don't worry, outside the US no police points you a gun, treats you as a criminal or shoot you for nothing.
Beeing poor is not a criminal offense outside the US.

Get on the road, Oak... :)

You mean no one notices, Ber… The fellow who supposedly drove a truck into a Christmas market was given a trial, after being apprehended? No; of course not.  The security forces had only been following him for two years… But only twelve dead: What Europe's come to expect!! Open borders is such a wonderful idea!
Well, it is when it's applied to peoples of the same civilization. Otherwise, not so much…

Perhaps I'd be coddled in Europe. But I don't want to be coddled! I've worked my whole life, and I wouldn't have had it any other way. Now that I'm old I'd prefer to enjoy my family here where they mostly are. I think I've earned that much.
But not much more!
Don't you remember "It's A Wonderful Life" staring Jimmy Stewart, directed by Capra? :) I'm not exactly George Bailey; but I'm not that far from his life… :)

Open borders is such a wonderful idea!
Well, it is when it's applied to peoples of the same civilization. Otherwise, not so much...

EU is simply the most advanced conquest civilization ever got.

Nope! Islam is… You're "reconquista" is a fragile thing, given the politicians and their "philosophies" that keep winning elections. Europe seems doomed, to me.
I'd be glad to be mistaken — provided a new Caliphate doesn't usurp the power… :) (There's such a thing as "taking turns" as a strategy that rankles: You're supposed to win! Does Europe know how to do this? Does it care?)

Europe is full of open borders and that recent Islamist terrorist who murdered in Germany travelled via what was it 3 countries befor being shot in Italy, Before the end of this century the Continent will be par of the Islamic empire.

Before the end of this century the Continent will be par[t] of the Islamic empire.

I'm afraid you're right, RJ… But America should help preclude such. (Can you bring yourself to accept our help, yet again? Or would you rather submit?)

You're well out of the EU, boy-o! (Just as you were sensible enough to stay clear of the Euro currency fiasco…)

What a bunch of sissies... Scots and Americans...no wonder the Islamic state wanting to behead them...

The Islamic State wants their country back, Bel! (I'm sure you can fight them off, using your vegetable garden… :) )

Very sensible there Oakdale and we were also very right not to get involved in South Vietnam when your country pressed us. And anyway how could your country help in a future domination of Europe (it will happen)?

What, you don't think our treaty commitments will be honored? NATO's Article 5 and all that? :)

Shame you feel poor dear man but don't you feel exceptional as there are over 40 million on food stamps! I hope to be back in the Netherlands this year for a third trip as enjoyed the place. Paris was fine many years ago although there seemed to be too many Frenchies in it.