The DnD Sanctuary

Present requests that are not in the list of planned features https://github.com/Emdek/otter/blob/master/TODO

High priority / ASAP:
- start page
- page specific preferences
- passwords manager
- delayed loading of Flash objects

Medium priority / soon:
- content blocking
- spell checking
- feeds reader (as module)
- panels (page informations, notes, transfers, bookmarks etc.)
- greater UI customization abilities (configurable toolbars, overwriting list of context menu actions etc.)
- system tray icon

Low priority / later:
- mail client (as module)
- shared contacts database
- fine-tune UI (sizes, margins and other details)
- form auto completion
- exposing MDI features
- mouse gestures
- tabs grouping (stacking and panorama mode)
- import of existing settings, bookmarks etc.
- extensions (Firefox and Chrome APIs support)
- Opera Link like solution
- improved integration with different platforms (Windows taskbar integration etc.)
- Blink backend (with upcoming QtWebEngine, when API will be useful)

Low priority / maybe:
- support for Opera skins (through custom QStyle)
- IM client module (libpurple based, including support for IRC)
- BitTorrent module
- support for tab thumbnails embedded in tab bar

And lots of smaller or obvious things. ;-)

I would like to add a request : regroup all the english strings in a file.

I'm impatient to start translating them in french  :)

@Cqoicebordel, yeah, that should be started soon, probably around 16.03.2014.

Will there be lang files like Opera had?

@ersi, nope, we will use formats used by Qt Linguist.

Trying the current build here, I note that keyboard shortcuts are underdeveloped and they do not figure on the todo list either. No file concerning them is in the profile folder (.config/otter). What's the status?

@ersi, only custom profiles will appear there, you have to clone existing one in Preferences first.
Note that lots of actions are not exposed there yet.

I understand that the Speed Dial or its equivalent will be included at some time. I did not uses Speed Dial in Opera 12, never saw the point really, but I use it in Opera for Tablets since it preforms the Bookmark function.

I'm not a great Browser collector so the following may exist already in some other Browser, but it occurs to me that if one could collect the Book Marks in Speed Dial, together with one level down grouped within them, one could use an individual expanded Speed-dial Bookmarks as a contextual menu, displayed as a strip, say,  and be able to fix any of them temporarily like a bookmark bar at the top or the side of the Browser, even as a panel.As a user one could then have (as examples) a shopping environment browser bar, a sports bar, a media bar and so on according to the way one was using the computer at the time. Use of favicons or assigned text or both would reduce the real estate used.

Apologies if that's obvious and already done but since I don't know that I thought I'd mention it.

@string, I would go for multiple bookmarks toolbars, each one displaying single folder (or tag).

@string, I would go for multiple bookmarks toolbars, each one displaying single folder (or tag).

Well so would I for my taste; my current Opera 12 bookmark bar is a mixture of direct links to sites and folders containing many links around a theme; in that way I keep key urls readily to hand for different modes of browsing.

But my suggestion was not really meant for those who enjoy customising to the nth degree, it was targeted at those who  have limited ambitions in that respect and are weaned on the simplistic apology for a quasi bookmark system that the quick dial concept represents. With a little bit of exposure to even modest customisation maybe they can be weaned onto the more sophisticated delights that used to be Opera and now will be Otter.

Besides, it would be good to get one up on the opposition.  ;)

It's not a brilliant suggestion I admit but sometimes a daft idea will spawn a better one.

@string
I used to customise Opera heavily, but speed dial was not a quasi bookmarks system for me in the sense of a parallel or competing system. Speed dial didn't compete with Bookmarks or substitute them in any way. Speed dial was a subset of the whole Bookmarking system. I saw it this way:

The core of bookmarks feature is the bookmarks panel (also bookmarks window, which replicates the panel more fully). The essentials there:
- Folders
- Titles
- Urls
- Keywords
- Descriptions

Nice extras:
- Drag&Drop rearrange
- Open All per folder
- Sort per each parameter (sort ascending and descending per title, url, keyword, ...)

Then there's stuff beyond the core features:
- Bookmarks toolbar
- Speed dial

Bookmarks toolbar was implemented in Opera this way: Select a bookmark item and mark "Display on Personal bar (Bookmarks toolbar)". The exact same can be said of Speed dial items. Speed dial items were a selection from the core set of bookmarks, marked "Display in Speed dial". Bookmarks toolbar and Speed dial consisted of bookmark items tagged that way.

The same idea applied to Opera Mini bookmarks when considered from the point of view of the desktop browser: Opera Mini bookmarks were (originally) one folder of bookmarks in the whole set of Bookmarks. (Here consider Opera Mini bookmarks folder as a tag.)

Speed Dial also had this feature: Ctrl+number was the shortcut to open up the Speed dial item. With overly elaborated Speed dial, this feature loses meaning. This is one of the reasons why, when O ASA "innovated" the system so that all bookmarks went to Speed dial (I can see how the background idea here was "Speed dial is a quasi bookmarks system anyway..."), people began complaining "Where are bookmarks?" Speed dial does not compete with or substitute bookmarks in any way. It's a subset, a special case of Bookmarks. It's like a Bookmarks Toolbar but "view as tiles".  The core of the bookmarks feature is and remains in Bookmarks Panel and Bookmarks Window.

What I'd rather see in Otter is virtual folders. Virtual folder basically means that tag and folder are the same thing. You can tag a bookmark item as "Display on Bookmarks toolbar" and/or "Display in Speed dial". In addition to these so-called hardcoded tags - that do what they say -, there should be freely writable tags, as many as one wants per bookmark item, that function like folders, i.e. when viewing the bookmark items in Bookmarks Window, you can sort per tags too, just like you can sort per title, per url, etc. Something like that.

Nice summary ersi. :)

There's no doubt about it, Emdek - you will have to clone yourself to satisfy us feature-hungry people.

@string, yeah... So far we have only tab cloning, but that won't help much. ;-)

0.9.01 doesn't crash for me any more with Right-click > Image properties. It also fixes some inconvenient geometry issues with Openbox and Windows, adds an icon and the opportunity to load translations. Good job!

Now some more straightforward requests:

- How about a proper full screen as in Opera Presto?
- I'm still unable to find the keyboard shortcut to focus the address field. (The address field is underdeveloped in many other ways too for now. No completion suggestions, no dropdown arrow, no way to combine the search field and address field, etc.)
- Time to borrow a side panel from somewhere. Qupzilla or Midori (or both?) had one with some features.
- Tab management. There's a way to detach a tab to a separate window. Is there a way to re-attach it again? A side panel to drag and group tabs in windows as one pleases would be totally awesome - and unique too now that Presto is legacy.

How about a proper full screen as in Opera Presto?

Hiding tab bar?

I'm still unable to find the keyboard shortcut to focus the address field. (The address field is underdeveloped in many other ways too for now. No completion suggestions, no dropdown arrow, no way to combine the search field and address field, etc.)

Should be added soon, drop down could be expected before next beta (it's one of my favorite features in classic Opera ;-)).

Time to borrow a side panel from somewhere. Qupzilla or Midori (or both?) had one with some features.

Chocimier will probably start working on them soon.

Tab management. There's a way to detach a tab to a separate window. Is there a way to re-attach it again? A side panel to drag and group tabs in windows as one pleases would be totally awesome - and unique too now that Presto is legacy.

That could take a bit more time but still has slight chances to be at least partially done before next beta.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-06-02, 10:41:59

How about a proper full screen as in Opera Presto?

Hiding tab bar?

Hiding everything, leaving only the webspace. That's the Opera way.

There may be some dispute over what should become visible when a new tab is opened by keyboard shortcut from such full-screen state (should the new tab display the address field? the tab bar? both?), but IMHO it's indisputable that the full-screen state itself should be just that, entire screen full of webspace, nothing else. When a new tab is opened in that state, I suggest, to settle disputes over what elements should become visible, to make those elements configurable just like everything else should be configurable.

Quote from: ersi on 2014-06-02, 10:41:59

I'm still unable to find the keyboard shortcut to focus the address field. (The address field is underdeveloped in many other ways too for now. No completion suggestions, no dropdown arrow, no way to combine the search field and address field, etc.)

Should be added soon, drop down could be expected before next beta (it's one of my favorite features in classic Opera ;-)).

Thanks :)

My favourite feature with Opera's address field is its dialog-duplicate, the default keyboard shortcut F2. Very handy when looking for another page to go to when in full-screen state.

@ersi, I would go for invisible tab bar but show it when cursor is near top edge of screen, in similar way to that of some video players in full screen mode.
Probably it would be shown in separate "layer", over page, so it won't "jump" when its visibility changes.
It could be also shown for a moment after entering this mode or opening / closing / changing active tab (it could be optional, if needed).

My favourite feature with Opera's address field is its dialog-duplicate, the default keyboard shortcut F2.

This might come soon, along dialog to open bookmarks by keyword (in fact it would be the same dialog with different mode of operation).

@ersi, I would go for invisible tab bar but show it when cursor is near top edge of screen, in similar way to that of some video players in full screen mode.

Or like Firefox. :P

@Frenzie, not exactly the same, I would like to avoid that effect of page being moved down and up when tab bar shows up or gets hidden, it's annoying. ;-)

Any way to hide menu & status bar?

@jasonliul, not yet, but should arrive before next beta, as part of #31 (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/31).

@ersi, I would go for invisible tab bar but show it when cursor is near top edge of screen, in similar way to that of some video players in full screen mode.
Probably it would be shown in separate "layer", over page, so it won't "jump" when its visibility changes.
It could be also shown for a moment after entering this mode or opening / closing / changing active tab (it could be optional, if needed).

The disadvantage of this approach is exactly how to create the ghostly elements. There are questions like:
- At what exact moves should the elements jump up and vanish?
- How fast? Should the speed of jumping up and vanishing be configurable?
- What elements should they be in the first place? What if different users want different elements, so perhaps users should be able to choose what elements they are?

I personally would prefer, like in Opera, that the elements are fixed, either there or not, not popping up and disappearing. In Opera it's possible for users to configure their own full-screen mode, to make certain toolbar always be there. The disadvantage of Opera's way is that, if the elements are fixed instead of disappearing, it doesn't look that nifty and modern as per current fashion.

A good compromise would be to implement full-screen mode like in VLC. The toolbar elements there pop up at mouse move. I don't personally like it, but it's okay since the elements are completely configurable. Everybody gets to choose what pops up. The implementation of a few interface setups in VLC is overall very good.

@ersi, it's more about distance, not speed.
I would go for distance not smaller than 10% of screen height, not smaller tan 50 pixels, not bigger than 200 pixels. Something like that.
Show tab bar only when mouse cursor enters that area and keep it visible as long as it moves there or tab bar is under cursor.
It could be configurable to use behavior like in VLC or to disable it completely.

I checked Midori and Qupzilla right now. Midori behaves exactly like Opera:

- No visible elements in full screen
- When a new tab is opened in full screen (by Ctrl+t), the address bar becomes visible in the new tab

Qupzilla is more radical:

- No visible elements in full screen
- Open a new tab, and there's still no toolbars, no hint at all that multiple tabs are open

Another thing I like in Opera is right-click+mouse-scroll to show the list of open tabs. Useful precisely in (proper) full screen. This for me completely compensates the lack of visible toolbars in full screen.

@ersi, that menu will be added,  sooner than later. ;-)

Another thing I like in Opera is right-click+mouse-scroll to show the list of open tabs. Useful precisely in (proper) full screen. This for me completely compensates the lack of visible toolbars in full screen.

Agreed, although I prefer to use it with Ctrl+Tab. In Firefox I've effected the same result with Tab Mix Plus.

(https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/exitstageleft.gif)  It would be real nice to eventually be able to simply make  personalized
user "Custom Buttons" , "Custom Menus", & "Custom Toolbars" to place them on. (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/cheerskj4.gif)

@SmileyFaze, there are two unresolved issues to get custom context menu and toolbars (these two are closely related, also with custom menu bar):
1. storage format (currently YAML like formatted JSON seems to be best idea, as it is quite user friendly and has built-in support in Qt);
2. how to manage actions in most efficient way, since each one must have one instance of QAction per main window (to be shown on tool bars etc) and most of them must have instances per tab too (it's required by MDI, to show correct states in navigation bar of each subwindow , especially for actions like go back or forward).

Second issue is more important since it has direct impact on memory usage.

I request the following two features:

1. A preference option to use the same keyboard shortcuts as were used in Opera 9.2.
2. The ability to find-in-page from the address bar.

By using these two features in combination, in Opera as it had been, I was able to forgo the use of the mouse entirely and input every browser command I wished, right from the keyboard. So far as I know, this ability has not been available in any other browser. It was the principal reason I was a devoted user of Opera.

Otter can only gain by integrating this improved Image Properties function, I think :)

EXIF Viewer Extension for Chromium Based Browsers (https://vivaldi.net/blogs?view=entry&id=28990)

Somebody please help him out with security audit too. The extension contains links to Google and those need some checking.

QuHno is a major fan of old Opera. Did I say major? I mean general or even admiral!

1. A preference option to use the same keyboard shortcuts as were used in Opera 9.2.
2. The ability to find-in-page from the address bar.

We have support for defining keyboard profiles, so as long as someone will have enough time to complete proper list then it's not a problem. :-)
Find in page from address bar? Was there something like that? I only remember there used to be such option in search combo box.

ersi, it's done using JS (I've used such solution to read EXIF from JS recently, for some project at work), so it surely is perfect candidate for QtWebEngine (AFAIK we can use JS for that stuff even if it is disabled for page itself) but in QtWebKit it would require enabled JS.

Right, Emdek, about Javascript.

As to Opera's early keyboard setup, doesn't the INI file itself serve as a straightforward enough guide? http://www.fredfred.net/download/Opera/defaults/standard_keyboard.ini

@ersi, yes, looks useful, especially by defining platform specific shortcuts. :-)
We could later try to add importer for these profiles or at least host some kind of script to import them.

Many thanks to both Emdek and ersi for your prompt and encouraging responses. In case they may be of additional assistance, beyond what is specified in http://www.fredfred.net/download/Opera/defaults/standard_keyboard.ini, I have included links to the keyboard shortcuts help pages from release 9.2, culled from the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. There are separate help pages for each of the following platforms: Windows, Mac, Linux, Solaris and FreeBSD.

Opera 9.2 Keyboard Shortcuts for Windows - http://help.opera.com/Windows/9.20/en/keyboard.html
Opera 9.2 Keyboard Shortcuts for Mac- http://help.opera.com/Mac/9.20/en/keyboard.html
Opera 9.2 Keyboard Shortcuts for Linux - http://help.opera.com/Linux/9.20/en/keyboard.html
Opera 9.2 Keyboard Shortcuts for Solaris - http://help.opera.com/Solaris/9.20/en/keyboard.html
Opera 9.2 Keyboard Shortcuts for FreeBSD - http://help.opera.com/FreeBSD/9.20/en/keyboard.html

Thanks again. I am looking forward with great eagerness to the Otter remedy for the Opera calamity.

glennhowardsecure

@glennhowardsecure, thanks, we are currently compiling comparison table:
https://github.com/Emdek/otter/wiki/Actions

Oooooeeeee!

There is a very tiny… thing (not sure if I can call this a feature), that Otter is missing compared to Opera 12.  :D I'm talking about the last tab closing button behaviour – I think it should revert such a tab to a blank screen (or a speed dial, but it's not already there in Otter Browser)… omg it's stupid :lol:

Hi, very cool browser. I've just downloaded it and still looking around.

I see others have mentioned the keyboard short cuts, the one I'm looking for is the standard windows ctrl+tab to change the tabs or ctrl+shift+tab to go back in the tabs.

I was experimenting with trying to set up a keyboard shortcut and it has the option there of "Go to tab on right" and "Go to tab on left", but I couldn't get this to work. I'll keep trying, but funny thing when I tried to make the shortcut ctrl+tab, it changed from the actions tab to the Informations tab.

Anyway, good stuff so far!!

@muzzthegreat Hi and welcome. Pressing the '1' and '2' keys to cycle left and right through open tabs is working for me 'out of the box' no configuration required here.

Oh yes! That does work. Very good and thanks for pointing that out.

I've just noticed, as I like to use my keyboard a lot, in other browsers pushing space bar moves the screen down, shift+space moves it up. Is there another shortcut for that?

Thanks

@muzzthegreat Hi and welcome. Pressing the '1' and '2' keys to cycle left and right through open tabs is working for me 'out of the box' no configuration required here.

The point is that these shortcuts are un-Operatic whereas endless configuration options are Opera's style. Hence the request is relevant.

Hello. Could you implement ability of switch to opera's developer tool (Dragonfly)? I realy like it. Thank you.

DragonFly is only compatible with Presto, although I seem to remember hearing something about it being ported to Blink.

@nikita.bsadly it is out of our scope.

@Frenzie, this could be interesting, as long as QtWebEngine devs would add API to set it.'
AFAIK that shouldn't be that hard, as these tools (both Dragon Fly and Web Inspector) are kind of HTML and JS based extensions.

AFAIK that shouldn't be that hard, as these tools (both Dragon Fly and Web Inspector) are kind of HTML and JS based extensions.

True, but DragonFly heavily depends on the special Scope protocol. In any case I have no idea what they're doing or if they're doing it at all; I only know that Opera/Blink still comes with the standard Webkit/Blink web inspector.

@Frenzie, yeah, but I wouldn't be surprised if they would publish Blink friendly version (or add support for missing stuff into their build) unless they want to stay as Chrome with custom theme...

I sure hope so! :)

I know that the point is to get Opera feeling from final product, but can we have (optional) Safari-like history view?
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcnet3.cbsistatic.com%2Fhub%2Fi%2Fr%2F2009%2F02%2F24%2Fe9a7b52e-fdc1-11e2-8c7c-d4ae52e62bcc%2Fresize%2F620x%2Fe6ab88f8a4f3f0f324843a690439a3ae%2Fsafari_4_history.png&hash=53f74b38ea09fdc7562c0cbbb2a615f4" rel="cached" data-hash="53f74b38ea09fdc7562c0cbbb2a615f4" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2009/02/24/e9a7b52e-fdc1-11e2-8c7c-d4ae52e62bcc/resize/620x/e6ab88f8a4f3f0f324843a690439a3ae/safari_4_history.png)
It is useful when you can't remember the name of a site you visited.

@jcd89
Wouldn't this just cause hiccups in older computers? The point is to deliver a recognisable, functional, and developer-wise manageable product to a wider variety of platforms.

Trying the current build here, I note that keyboard shortcuts are underdeveloped and they do not figure on the todo list either. No file concerning them is in the profile folder (.config/otter). What's the status?

I'll second the request for better keyboard shortcuts.

For me, the missing essential shortcuts are:

• back


• forward


• next link


• prev link


• next form field


• prev form field


• spatial navigation up


• spatial navigation down


• spatial navigation left


• spatial navitagion right

After reading some of the Github threads, I understand that not all of these are trivial to implement.  I just wanted to register the request :)

Is it possible to integrate the Chrome developer tools? 

Also, it would be great if we could use the chrome version of Gleebox:

http://thegleebox.com/

I'll second the request for better keyboard shortcuts.

This particular feature has been upgraded to almost workable https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=357.0

I would just ask you to make it as efficient and resources wise as was Opera 12. It's ridiculous that a browser nowadays uses 2gb ram when having 10 open tabs. And I'm not saying this because I lack ram or something, it's just ridiculous to consume such resources.

Quote from: mgraham on 2014-08-26, 15:02:53

I'll second the request for better keyboard shortcuts.

This particular feature has been upgraded to almost workable https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=357.0

I did play around with the keyboard preferences, and it is indeed very promising. 

However it doesn't include the actions on the list I quoted.  No back/forward, and no link or form navigation. 

So I guess technically, I'm not asking for keyboard shortcuts, but for missing actions to be implemented.

@jcd89
Wouldn't this just cause hiccups in older computers? The point is to deliver a recognisable, functional, and developer-wise manageable product to a wider variety of platforms.

you mean, the 3d view? Maybe, but it is not necessary for these feature, it just need to display corresponding  snapshots  to the visited pages.

@jcd89, 3D view is doable, but we would have to store thumbnail of each page, that can take a lot of space...

@mgraham, yep, it will require JavaScript helpers, except for Back and Forward - these already exits.
Chrome developer tools? There is something other than Inspector?
gleeBox looks interesting, we could try to create something similar, built-in, not relying on upstream (it is not as hard to do that).

@zundapp, this is something that we cannot improve, it's up to rendering engine and we are using existing ones...

@jcd89, 3D view is doable, but we would have to store thumbnail of each page, that can take a lot of space...

@mgraham, yep, it will require JavaScript helpers, except for Back and Forward - these already exits.
Chrome developer tools? There is something other than Inspector?
gleeBox looks interesting, we could try to create something similar, built-in, not relying on upstream (it is not as hard to do that).

@zundapp, this is something that we cannot improve, it's up to rendering engine and we are using existing ones...

I understand that. But until now, The very same tabs open on my FF and on Otter, Otter blows FF away on RAM usage. It's than 50% less! So well done :)

@jcd89, 3D view is doable, but we would have to store thumbnail of each page, that can take a lot of space...

Not each. 1 snapshot per site actually, the point is just to provide visual hint. So, it would be like 20-30 snapshots (low quality, highly compressed) per day, and it is only if user visits different sites each day. Btw, it can be completely optional and\or have used space limiter defined by user (just like cache size can be adjusted in most browsers).

Not each. 1 snapshot per site actually, the point is just to provide visual hint. So, it would be like 20-30 snapshots (low quality, highly compressed) per day, and it is only if user visits different sites each day.

You made me curious. Some light browsing today seems to have resulted in about 150 distinct domains in my history. That being said, e.g. five thousand images of 50 kB would still be no more than about 250 MB. In practice 20 kB might suffice for the snapshot and the default limit could be smaller.

NB I'm not convinced of the usefulness of such snapshots. I just don't think disk space is much of a concern in this regard unless you want to run the browser on a computer with a <40GB HDD. I'd be more concerned with CPU cycles and I/O bottlenecks (at least on my netbook).

@jcd89, yes, but I guess that it should be disabled by default, as it could indeed consume lots of space and memory.
Or we could use some algorithm with limit, like for cache, deleting old (or least visited) entries after reaching it.

@jcd89, 3D view is doable, but we would have to store thumbnail of each page, that can take a lot of space...

isn't it better to deliver Light browser without all that fancy crap ?

@mgraham, yep, it will require JavaScript helpers, except for Back and Forward - these already exits.

Hmm...  I'm using weekly #35, and I don't see shortcuts for back and forward.

I'm happy to hack some javascript.  Any pointers on how to get started?

Chrome developer tools? There is something other than Inspector?

In Chrome, it's listed under Tools->Developer Tools.  It has a network inspector, console, debugger, element inspector, etc.  I don't know if that's part of the open source part of chrome or not.  The advantage of using the chrome version (if it is available) is that people build add ons for it.  For instance, there's an Ember inspector available.  However, if it were hackable, I would attempt to improve its keyboard navigation.

gleeBox looks interesting, we could try to create something similar, built-in, not relying on upstream (it is not as hard to do that).

That would be very cool!

Quote from: Emdek on 2014-08-31, 17:35:41

@mgraham, yep, it will require JavaScript helpers, except for Back and Forward - these already exits.

Hmm...  I'm using weekly #35, and I don't see shortcuts for back and forward.

Perhaps Emdek is speaking of "rocker navigation" (right-click>hold>left-click & left-click>hold>right-click respectively).

Emdek said "Javascript helpers" already exist, not the ability to customize back & forward. I'm not entirely sure what that means; history.back() and history.forward() perhaps?

Emdek said "Javascript helpers" already exist, not the ability to customize back & forward. I'm not entirely sure what that means; history.back() and history.forward() perhaps?

Maybe he means Action macros? I have no clue what to put into those macro files, and what would change when I put anything into them.

Configuration of keyboard shortcuts is not working like it did in Opera. To remove some terribly interfering keyboard shortcuts I had to delete the default files under Tools -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Keyboard, but this also removed some basic necessities like New Tab and Close Tab. I have a custom file in that location and I would like to apply my own shortcuts to these actions, but the actions are not in the file and therefore cannot be configured.

Why are the actions (such as New Tab and Close Tab) not in the keyboard file and not configurable when they are actually available somehow out of the box?

@jcd89, yes, but I guess that it should be disabled by default, as it could indeed consume lots of space and memory.
Or we could use some algorithm with limit, like for cache, deleting old (or least visited) entries after reaching it.

Thanks. That how it should be, Opera main advantage is that you can customize everything (I guess that is why many of us didn't like Chromelike Opera without that ability), so users can decide for themselves, do they need that feature or not.

Will you make an IRC-client in this browser? :)

Tooth_lover Please do not post in all caps. As per the forum rules (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=rules).

7. Do not use capitals only in thread titles (excepting acronyms) or in the post; it is widely taken as shouting, and rude.

I'm new here, I like the browser but there are some things that I'd like to be changed. First tabs get squeezed just like in chrome/opera, I think that firefox has a better solution, tabs get a minimal width and then you can scroll the entire tab strip, so you always see at least part of the title. Second when tabs are placed to the side of the screen the labels are placed vertically which I think is wrong and you can't fit more tabs than horizontally, which loses its purpose. This (http://sta.sh/029tn3d0ibk2) is Opera with (heavily modified by me) Veritabs extension and I think this is how it should be, there are more than 100 tabs open, and I can scroll through the entire strip on the left and tabs are easy to find. Only thing I hate about veritabs is that it covers webpage, if it only could squeeze website I would newer seek for a different browser...

@Tooth_lover

IRC is in the TODO list, "low priority maybe". I also hope the developers get around to applying an IRC module and an emailer. Thorough customization of keyboard shortcuts, menus and toolbars the way it was in Opera is my strongest expectation though. But we may end up waiting long.

@kroppy

You mean the tabs panel? It looks very good, just like in old Opera :)

_____________
Here's an updated TODO list (the same URL as in the OP):

Release schedule of planned main features (it's not a full list), note that specific features may be delayed or added earlier than planned.
0.9.03 (beta 3):
- start page
- mouse gestures
- greater UI customization abilities (configurable toolbars, overwriting list of context menu actions etc.)
- exposing MDI features
- page specific preferences
- user scripts and stylesheets

1.0.01 (first stable release):
- passwords manager
- delayed loading of Flash objects
- feeds reader (as module)
- shared contacts database
- fine-tune UI (sizes, margins and other details)
- support for tab thumbnails embedded in tab bar
- tabs grouping (stacking and panorama mode)
- improved integration with different platforms (Windows taskbar integration etc.)

Later:
- Blink backend (with upcoming QtWebEngine, when API will be useful)
- spell checking
- additional panels for sidebar (page information, notes etc.)
- mail client (as module)
- form auto completion
- extensions (Firefox and Chrome APIs support)
- Opera Link like solution

Maybe:
- support for Opera skins (through custom QStyle)
- IM client module (libpurple based, including support for IRC)
- BitTorrent module

First tabs get squeezed just like in chrome/opera

Actually Opera/Presto can choose what happens (no wrap, extender menu, wrap to multiple lines), although the Firefox way is not one of the options.

This (http://sta.sh/029tn3d0ibk2) is Opera with (heavily modified by me) Veritabs extension and I think this is how it should be, there are more than 100 tabs open, and I can scroll through the entire strip on the left and tabs are easy to find. Only thing I hate about veritabs is that it covers webpage, if it only could squeeze website I would newer seek for a different browser...

Yup, the windows panel is fantastic. You've illustrated the deficiencies of not having a sidebar/panels quite well. ;)

Yup I mean sidepanel. I have tried Midori browser with their built-in Tab panel extension, which is good, but you can't rearrange tabs (no drag&drop). And browser itself crashes on almost everything.

As far as I am concerned any browser that uses the blink engine is just another stupid chrome clone and not worth installing

If I wanted a browser that used the blonk engine I would eirher install Chromium or Google Chrome and not the otter browser.

@ghall4834

What other engine do you suggest? To me it seems it's quite possible to package the same rendering engine in radically different ways. Chromium is very different from Qupzilla for example. And K-Meleon from FF.

Besides, if I understood rightly, the main developer of Otter has the idea to provide several rendering engines in the future. Hopefully it gets done modularly so that the user can choose the favourite engine, the choice sticks, and the interface continues to control the rendering engine without glitches.

And Maxthon is nothing like IE. I find it a rather silly statement. I'd say Firefox is more of a Chromium clone by default these days than Opera/Blink, no matter the engine.

Quzilla and Midori use Qt WebKit and not Qt WebEngine.

I want a werbkit that was not based on Gooogle Chrome webkit Blink

I want nothing to do with blink.
\
I wanft a port of the webkit not a port of Google Chromes Blink.

Using Blink reduces the number of alternative browsers by just copying from Google Chrome WebKit just like Firefox copied Chrome UI with Firefox 29 and up..

Quzilla and Midori use Qt WebKit and not Qt WebEngine.

I want a werbkit that was not based on Gooogle Chrome webkit Blink

I want nothing to do with blink.

If the option to use Blink bothers you so much, you could always manually strip out the Blink backend (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/blob/master/src/core/WebBackendsManager.cpp) once it arrives. Heck, maybe there'll be build flags, too. But I wonder where you got the idea that Blink is used at present? The Otter site says:

[html]

Why yet another QtWebKit browser?

First of all, Otter is not intended to be such a thing, from beginning it is designed to support multiple backends.

Since Qt5 currently ships only one web engine (QtWebEngine is still in the works, planned for inclusion not earlier that in Qt 5.3) Otter has no other option for now (creating bindings is not a trivial task...), but as soon it will become possible it will gain support for Blink (through QtWebEngine) and maybe others (someone tried once to build Qt version of Firefox, so there should be Gecko binding somewhere...). ;-)

As long time Opera user (since 2004, spending only few initial months using Maxthon etc.) I have some specific needs that cannot be fulfilled by any of existing web browsers.

There will be no entry "Why Qt?", why? Because Qt (while not perfect) is simply the best choice. ;-)

[/html]

just like Firefox copied Chrome UI with Firefox 29 and up..

Firefox 4.

Quzilla and Midori use Qt WebKit and not Qt WebEngine.

I want a werbkit that was not based on Gooogle Chrome webkit Blink

I want nothing to do with blink.

1. Someday in the future, Qt WebEngine will be the default and Qt WebKit will be deprecated and then removed when WebEngine is mature enough. It's only a matter of time.
2. Changing the layout engine should not have any impact on the interface. Just because the management at Opera ASA decided to flush the "old Opera" interface down the toilet and ignore the needs of thousands of its power users, doesn't mean all browsers should have a Chrome-like interface, even if they are based on Blink.

Heck, maybe there'll be build flags, too.

Most probably (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/492):

I guess that QtWebEngine backend could be first thing using build options

I'd say Firefox is more of a Chromium clone by default these days than Opera/Blink, no matter the engine.

At least Firefox lets me have a menu bar. That alone makes me prefer it over Chrome...

At least Firefox lets me have a menu bar. That alone makes me prefer it over Chrome...

Oh, I see. Press Alt and the menu shows up, View > Toolbars > Menu Bar and it's permanent. Or is that just an Iceweasel thing? In any case, I couldn't figure out how to do it from that unfathomable drop-down menu. But yeah, I agree. Install Tab Mix Plus and you've got something lightyears ahead of Chromium. By default, however, I'm hard-pressed to tell the difference.

Yes, from what I know you do need to press Alt, which is dumb... but you press Alt once, enable the option to show menu bar, and you have the menu bar there forever. In Chrome there is just no option to have it. For me, that's a difference like light and day. Program that doesn't have a standard menu bar -> program that gets uninstalled from my PC.

Hello. I have installed latest weekly package and I'm really impressed with progress. I see the left menu bar and now I can move tabs bar to any side of the window. It's really cool. Can you add one more opera's feature? Opera can resize these bars and tabs don't rotate on right side. I'll be very grateful for such improvements.

"Ctrl + D" keyboard shortcut for bookmarking a page.

I've always preferred Ctrl + B. :P But yes, it seems you can add a shortcut manually, but a default would certainly make sense.

Cannot copy/move/delete more than 1 bookmark

It can create a new bookmarks folder, but it can hadle only 1 bookmark at time. Organizing a lot of bookmarks is essentialy needed. Bookmark manager in Otter is without this feauture unusable.

Make bookmark sidebar significantly more shrinkable.
Peace.

Make bookmark sidebar significantly more shrinkable.

And expandable too. Sometimes I like to have it halfway across the browser window. Moreover, Opera's sidebar can levitate :)

Btw, nice to see that this forum identifies Otter's user agent :)

Field for file name remains empty if user wants download a file. No file name and no file type. Instead of naming file as e.g. "otter-browser_0.9.04-dev45_i386.deb", the browser attempts to download unnamed files. (what is impossible task anyway). Moreover, Otter crashes almost each time when attemting to downlad any file on different websites.

This bug is likely there from the start of Otter project. Many months I am using other browsers for downlading new Otter builds.

Also, please add custom white-listing for ads from some urls. I would like to allow some websites and domains to opt-out from content blocking feature. It would be more convenient use with it.

Make bookmark sidebar significantly more shrinkable.
Peace.

Yes. I wish there was an about:config line which would state the number of px how shrinkable the panel is, and the user can overwrite it.

Field for file name remains empty if user wants download a file. No file name and no file type. Instead of naming file as e.g. "otter-browser_0.9.04-dev45_i386.deb", the browser attempts to download unnamed files. (what is impossible task anyway). Moreover, Otter crashes almost each time when attemting to downlad any file on different websites.

This bug is likely there from the start of Otter project. Many months I am using other browsers for downlading new Otter builds.

I also encountered this. It's supposed to be fixed, but I still encountered it even after the fix. I haven't tried to download anything lately though https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/331

Have you tried downloading with different profiles?

Also, please add custom white-listing for ads from some urls. I would like to allow some websites and domains to opt-out from content blocking feature. It would be more convenient use with it.

When you take a look in the profile directory, there's an adblock folder with text files in it. With ! you can comment out the URL that you don't want there.

One thing I quite like about Opera 12.x is the "ctrl+tab" order - it cycles through tabs in the order they were last used, in the same way as the "alt+tab" order. This is a lot more useful than cycling through in the displayed order when you have more than 5 tabs open.

Quote from: esterdot on 2014-11-05, 23:08:53

Make bookmark sidebar significantly more shrinkable.
Peace.

Yes. I wish there was an about:config line which would state the number of px how shrinkable the panel is, and the user can overwrite it.

There was such an option (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/commit/5694d05cbb15fe5b893261dd28ce386e9ca35882). It was initially called Hotlist/Width and was later renamed to Sidebar/Width.
Emdek removed it on October 30 when he added a splitbar (https://github.com/Emdek/otter/commit/831fe9c6c28593bd8e53722d205690bb6f83d3ae) to resize the sidebar.

Have you tried downloading with different profiles?

The link you provided https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/331 is exactly the same what is happening to me. I encountered this issue with all previous builds I installed, though I did not reported it cause I registered this forum just recently.

Which 'different profile' do you mean? I suppose you don't mean sourceforge.net and thedndsanctuary.eu logins. You probably mean merely browser's user-data profile. If so, I use only default profile.

When you take a look in the profile directory, there's an adblock folder with text files in it. With ! you can comment out the URL that you don't want there.

I don't know where the profile is stored.

Quote from: ersi

Have you tried downloading with different profiles?

You probably mean merely browser's user-data profile. If so, I use only default profile.

ersi is most likely referring to the --profile command line option, e.g.:

otter-browser --profile /tmp/otter/config

I don't know where the profile is stored.

There's a .config (hidden) directory in your home directory.

ersi is most likely referring to the --profile command line option, e.g.:
otter-browser --profile /tmp/otter/config

Thanks. I found that desktop icon Otter in Ubuntu is running from here: /usr/local/bin/otter-browser %u
Otter always creates temporary file here: /tmp/Otter-03ee89c4ab4c49d564ad48a39a945963 . The file dissapears after closing Otter.

There's a .config (hidden) directory in your home directory.

Yep. I found it there: /home/marwyn/.config/otter/
I tried edit subscribed language in folder named adblock (with "!" + "domain name"), but not much success in it. What code should I write to show ads (adblock inactive) on specific websites? (white-listed domains) Is there any manual HOWTOs for Otter's built-in adblock?

Is there any manual HOWTOs for Otter's built-in adblock?

The content blocking is Adblock Plus compatible, so this should do the trick: https://adblockplus.org/en/filters

The content blocking is Adblock Plus compatible, so this should do the trick: https://adblockplus.org/en/filters

Ouch. Thus defining exception rules is done by @@|http://example.com and not by !example.com as I deemed after your suggestion in earlier post. In fact, @@ to indicate an exception rule. See more https://adblockplus.org/en/filters#whitelist

I believe you mean ersi. I don't believe in ad-blocking.* A so-called comment (in this case ! (https://adblockplus.org/en/filters#comments) like ersi said) disables existing rules in a file. Exception rules are something else.

* If a website annoys me too much I'd rather just not visit it. I have yet to see an annoying website with brilliant content. YouTube probably comes closest: it's a fairly annoying website, but a small fraction of its content is quite good. However, ad-blocking wouldn't solve its annoyances.

* If a website annoys me too much I'd rather just not visit it. I have yet to see an annoying website with brilliant content. YouTube probably comes closest: it's a fairly annoying website, but a small fraction of its content is quite good. However, ad-blocking wouldn't solve its annoyances.

This sounds like saying you don't believe in turning off plugins or you don't believe in cookie-less browsing. To me ads are of the same class of web-phenomena as plugins and cookies, but even more annoying. As soon as I discovered Opera, I saw the advantages of using the browser to optimise webpages, to turn off certain elements (e.g. plugins or images), to emphasise other elements (e.g. make text bigger or change the colours), kill popups. Nowadays popups have evolved into pop-ins which is vastly more annyoing. They should not have been invented in the first place and I welcome every easy method to suppress them.

Youtube actually wins a lot from adblocking. The site becomes much cleaner, you'll get rid of time-consuming ads in the beginning of videos, etc.

Moreover, it's part of my job to visit annoying sites, full of ads and blinking distractions, so adblock and other optimisation methods are pretty much required for survival.

 :yes: I meant ersi for my previous response.

Stop blocking ads on my favourite websites of any kind, providers of free information or free software projects is my personal philosophy, and that is just one of many other possible ways how to 'get involved' and 'to support'. The other way is to be a developer, like you guys. :hat: And also some other ways like 'spread the word' or 'tweets' over social media etc. So that's why I asked on howto white-list some websites from content blocking feature (also known as 'adblock').

I also made few other suggestions  :idea: what should be improved the most in Otter. Especially concerning 'download manager' and 'bookmark manager'.
https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=211.msg29405#msg29405
https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=211.msg29391#msg29391
https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=211.msg29667#msg29667

Anyway, people here posted many 'Feature Requests' and TODO list already contains a big targets https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=211.msg10181#msg10181
:up:

One thing I quite like about Opera 12.x is the "ctrl+tab" order - it cycles through tabs in the order they were last used, in the same way as the "alt+tab" order. This is a lot more useful than cycling through in the displayed order when you have more than 5 tabs open.

This is now the only thing holding me back from switching completely to Otter. Any chance this can be added to the future-feature list?

-"Save background as" in context menu or the possibility to save images from within the inspector (for saving bing backgrounds)
-fanboy's annoyance list and easy privacy list as option in the content blocker
-more slim status bar/status bar too thick
-ability to put the menu beside the adress field in the navigation bar and/or a placeholder for toolbar items
-when the menubar is disabled, from where do I get my bookmarks? suggestion: optional bookmarks menu button for the toolbar
-bug?: searches via context menu do not open a in a new tab when holding ctrl button (and I don't want to disable the reuse current tab fuction)
-back to top button

@SEoF, we have ticket for that:
https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/52

"Save background as" in context menu or the possibility to save images from within the inspector (for saving bing backgrounds)

Interesting concept for an action, it's definitely doable. But sadly not doable for Inspector.

fanboy's annoyance list and easy privacy list as option in the content blocker

I'm not sure if they will end up there but for sure it will be doable to add them in user friendly way, currently these could be manually added to configuration file but soon that configuration will be moved elsewhere.

more slim status bar/status bar too thick

Might be done as part of this ticket:
https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/31

ability to put the menu beside the adress field in the navigation bar and/or a placeholder for toolbar items

Planned as part of the same ticket.

when the menubar is disabled, from where do I get my bookmarks? suggestion: optional bookmarks menu button for the toolbar

Sidebar? :-)
Also the upcoming menu button, the last part of this ticket:
https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/85
Special type of toolbar just for showing bookmarks from specified folder is planned as part of #31.

searches via context menu do not open a in a new tab when holding ctrl button (and I don't want to disable the reuse current tab fuction)

I would consider that missing feature.

back to top button

ScrollToStartAction.

@SEoF, we have ticket for that:
https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/52

Sweet! Thanks Emdek!

searches via context menu do not open a in a new tab when holding ctrl button (and I don't want to disable the reuse current tab fuction)

Done, now holding Shift forces them to always open in new tab and Ctrl opens them in new tab in background.

Scrollspeed option request here.

As most other users of Otter I come directly from Opera Presto and have also tested some alternatives like Chrome before I found this Otter browser which i've found to be quite good.
There is one slight irritation however. The scrollspeed on webpages is noticeably slower compared to Opera Presto and other web-browsers like Chrome and IE etc.
On this feature-request page, 5, for example I tested to go from top to bottom. It took slightly more than 6 full pull on the scroll-wheel on the mouse to get almost all the way down. Took only about 3 and a half with Presto to get down to the bottom. With IE 11 only 3. With Chrome 4.

So now knowing this I would like to request a somewhat faster scrollspeed or an option to adjust scrollspeed in preferences.

@Schaki, that should be doable, assuming that QtWebKit doesn't add own magic there to make it smoother etc.
Even in that case it should be possible to workaround by supplying it with modified events.

When importing bookmarks from qupzilla, the bookmarks are in a subfolder called 'Bookmarks Menu'.
Thus, the ability to select multiple items in the bookmarks manager at once, to move or delete them, would be a helpful feature

ScrollToStartAction produces a 'Go to Start of the Page' monster button in the toolbar.
Is it somehow possible (for the user) to give it a shorter name or even an icon?

Thus, the ability to select multiple items in the bookmarks manager at once, to move or delete them, would be a helpful feature

See:
https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/297

Is it somehow possible (for the user) to give it a shorter name or even an icon?

Not yet, but should be done as part of:
https://github.com/Emdek/otter/issues/31

Hi and thank you for your work on Otter.

A really important feature in our good old Opera is the panel switch on the side of the window. Switched on via a check mark in the "Panel Tab" under Appearance (Shift + F12).

On notebooks and 4: 3 screens this feature is very useful.

Keep on your good work.

@rappelkiste_src, that narrow vertical bar which AFAIR used to be enabled by default some years ago?
That is quite easy to do (comparing to some of other features), I'll add it to my personal TODO.
I've used to use it quite often in the past.

I feel compelled to mention Power/Custom Buttons (http://anonym.to/?http://operawiki.info/CustomButtons)-- to me they were one of the most impressive features in Opera.

@Milesius, yes, I'm aware of them (d'oh, I'm using them myself ;-)) and I want to have a bit more modern replacement for them, using EcmaScript / JS APIs, similar to these usually used by extensions (it would be best to allow to share them, without API clashes).

@rappelkiste_src, that narrow vertical bar which AFAIR used to be enabled by default some years ago?
That is quite easy to do (comparing to some of other features), I'll add it to my personal TODO.
I've used to use it quite often in the past.

Not the narrow sidebar with only the icons for bookmarks, downloads. It's thinner than that. The new vivaldi browser has this Panel-Switch, too. For firefox I use the Addon "All-in-One-Sidebar" https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/all-in-one-sidebar/ (https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/all-in-one-sidebar/) which has this feature, too.

It's only a thin vertical line. If you klick on the line, the complete panel with bookmarks appears. A second klick and the panel dissapears.  In my german opera 12.16 this feature is called "Panel-Umschalter an der Fensterseite zeigen".

Thanks for keeping an eye on it.

- custom shortcuts (including single-key bindings; ability to remove shortcuts like Ctrl+backspace and AltGr+9 {can't do closing brackets using my keyboard layout!)
- custom layout (especially refering to http://operawiki.info/CustomButtons and my beloved buttons (turn on/off proxy, turn off/on images, go to certificate settings, online/offline mode, …  :love:, probably also enable/disable javascript)
- navigation between links via Shift+arrows(any), Ctrl+arrow(up,down)
- notes panel
- links panel (including search for html tags, multiple downloads)
- windows panel
- collection of site-specific settings (also add: site-specific caching)
- dictionary

- socks proxy identification
- collection of accepted TLS-certificates
- OCSP

- show source code (context menu + Ctrl+u)
- show tcp headers (I believe you are on that one?!)
- otter:config (plus more possibilites and explanations)
- documentation in general

@rappelkiste_src, yeah, I know which one. :-)
One is toggle for entire sidebar, second one is switcher for active panel plus button to add new ones.

@dacks, some of these items are already done (but definitely there are some bugs or design cold be improved), but the real issue is documentation in general, see this (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=218.msg32635#msg32635).
For example, about:config was done even before first public release. ;-)

Open 2 links in 2 tabs from one site/parent.
After watching and closing one of the two tabs, the parent is selected again, not the second tab.
Could you change this please? In other browsers the second tab would be selected.

@rincewind, yep, depends on at least one of these:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/52
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/190

Currently it's handled by QTabBar itself, which becomes annoying when trying to implement more flexible behavior.
We already started collecting data for LRU switching (timestamps updated per tab, each time when that tab gets selected) so it has chance to be at least partially done soon (blah, we need a good replacement for WIR, but less ambiguous ;-)).

Hi all!

(first, sorry for my bad english)

This is a great browser. I like the idea to take over the features from old Opera, because Opera was the greatest browser available.
Sorry I am not a developer nor a programmer. I can't help. I am just a fan with requests.
I think a password manager and password filler hotkey and button will be a useful and handy feature. + setting master password to: 1. enable the autofill and/or 2. enable surfing - so anyone on my computer or other computer can't use my Otter browser - useful when it's portable. This missed from Opera, but will be great.

Any chance to bookmark panel? Like on this picture: http://i.imgur.com/2dhkb2f.jpg

I'm missing these so much.

I also think that opensource is better than closed source. That's the point. Otter will be better than Vivaldi will be or Opera ever was. I wish I can contribute to this browser, but I suppose that many programmer are working on this and soon be the best browser. I know I'm right.

Any chance to bookmark panel? Like on this picture: http://i.imgur.com/2dhkb2f.jpg

I respect the other users habits.

But I really can't understand why, having a powerfull browser like Opera, one should use a such outdated way to access some bookmarks, especially now that the pointless 16/9 screens is almost the only display option, wasting some additional vertical space is really a pity.

About bookmark panel I thought that it would be an eligible, easily turn on/off feature.
I think that you have a 4:3 monitor. So this feature is not useful for you, I understand.
It is comfortable for me, because I can access the site with just one click. And I am a lazy man :)

About bookmark panel I thought that it would be an eligible, easily turn on/off feature.

This is pretty obvious for any Opera (and children) user I believe. Options, options, options... ;)

I think that you have a 4:3 monitor. So this feature is not useful for you, I understand.

I was not clear enough, I believe. So you understood exactly the opposite of what I meant.

I'm on a 16/10 monitor(s) (a good compromise). But that's not the point.

The point is that on a 4/3 monitor one can  happily trade some vertical space for an additional toolbar or whatever.

On a 16/9 monitor the vertical space is precious so, the less horizontal bar are present, the more pleasurable is the browser use.

On a 16/9 monitor the vertical space is precious so, the less horizontal bar are present, the more pleasurable is the browser use.

16:9 is annoying, but that's a bit overdramatic. 1920x1080 is still slightly more vertical pixels than my 1280x1024. It's even slightly more than a 16:10 1680x1050. Now 10 years ago I had the same amount of vertical pixels on a 4:3 monitor with 1440x1080 and not simply sizing that up (to e.g. 1600x1200) is indeed quite annoying, but the simple matter of fact is that you only proportionally have less space.

A 16:10 24" 1920x1200 is definitely a significantly superior monitor to one with 1920x1080, but stagnation is not a loss of vertical space. I think your argument is really only somewhat applicable to 1024x600, but at the same time it's also contradicted by the programs we used back on 800x600.

Of course, there is the matter of Windows bloating up all the borders etc., thus reducing the amount of effective available space. But really, is anything with a resolution of 1024x600 going to run Windows Vista/7/8 anything other than poorly?

So you understood exactly the opposite of what I meant.

No, I understood well. But I implied the other aspect of it: look on my bookmark panel there are many items in horizontal order. On a 16:9/16:10 monitor is visible both the image and (fragmented) texts. On the 4:3 this will be minimalistic (only image or text) and stretched - so ugly. And the differences are important because you can see there's eight identical image along with different text. On widescreen I can decide quckier which bookmark I should click because I can see the text. So I also save time.
The minus vertical space never bothered me, this is just a matter of taste.

16:9 is annoying, but that's a bit overdramatic. 1920x1080 is still slightly more vertical pixels than my 1280x1024

Sure A full HD monitor is not that bad. But on monitors for desktop PCs I would compare 1920x1080 with a good 1920x1200 monitor. Meant for IT not for TV.

I think your argument is really only somewhat applicable to 1024x600

That's not the whole story. The world is not split just between netbooks and full HD devices.

Most of the latest 16/10 notebooks, say Thinkpads X200/X201, Dell E4200/4300, A lot of Vaios and so on, are 1280x800, most of their direct successors are just 1366x768.

There are also some 1440x900 variants but are way less common or expensive.

Only lately full HD displays are commonly available on notebooks too.

But the 16/9 madness started four or five years ago, so there is a whole generation of (often expensive) notebooks equipped with a poor size/resolution combination.

@denes

Because of a strange celestial conjunction we had almost the same topic on the Vivaldi forum. Given I've explained better my arguments there I'm not going to repeat myself but I just link the discussion related discussion.

https://vivaldi.net/forum/all/1662-new-snapshot-of-vivaldi-is-ready-for-download

@denes, all these requests are already on TODO list or in form of tickets on github. ;-)

https://vivaldi.net/forum/all/1662-new-snapshot-of-vivaldi-is-ready-for-download

Thank you. I read this because I am an open minded person, and I try to understand other users habits to decide which solution works practically better for me.
You and other users shared understandably the unique methods to use bookmarks.
And I agree in 100% with Ayespy's opinion, which is edifying:

"Different people, different use-cases, different needs.

Now in my case, I could never remember 81 numbers to know WHICH speed dial to call up. To make matters worse, my bookmarks bar gives me one or two step access to over a hundred bookmarks either directly or in one of five folders - and I don't have to remember anything. I either select the matching favicon or jump into one of the folders and do so. And I do it all day, every day, without ever changing the page I am on, necessarily."

But also the speed dial would be good too, as you use(d) it.

@denes, all these requests are already on TODO list or in form of tickets on github. ;-)

:doh:

Anyway :D I wish you luck and happy days!  ;) and for other programmers, of course

You and other users shared understandably the unique methods to use bookmarks.

Who said unique ?

I explained my way, and I' explained that isn't any slower than other methods (your and avespy's points). Thats all.

Now in my case, I could never remember 81 numbers to know WHICH speed dial to call up.

Come on. That's why SD has thumbnails. If there is something that is the antimatter of remembering something,  is visually and spatially spotting a colored big block.
It's something that resembles the very first educational games aimed to the 3 years old babies, eimple by definition.

Add to it a rational organization, add to it the fact that when you use the SD for awhile you can use it blindly (because, like it or not you start to remember), and your objection becomes completely emptied of any means.

"Different people, different use-cases, different needs.

That's true but is just part of the truth.

The real thing is that any mammal, humans included (including me, you and avespy ) forms itself mainly when is young. And Is really hard to change a crystallized habit, for a person who's not a teenager anymore, even when another one is definitely better.

That's not the whole story. The world is not split just between netbooks and full HD devices.

Most of the latest 16/10 notebooks, say Thinkpads X200/X201, Dell E4200/4300, A lot of Vaios and so on, are 1280x800, most of their direct successors are just 1366x768.

My whole story is that 1024x768 is the lowest user-friendly resolution (down mostly to modern programs' GUI assumptions than to anything inherent in 600 vertical px). 1366x768 is annoying, but it's a usable resolution with a little extra on the side. I was perfectly happy with 1024x768 on Windows 98, with (some) toolbars.

Anyway, why should the default be tailored toward the lowest common denominator? That's why Windows 8 is utterly unusable without Classic Shell. Oh yeah, and I love my titlebar on my 1024x600 netbook, thank you very much. I also know how to press F11 for those occasions when I don't.

But the 16/9 madness started four or five years ago, so there is a whole generation of (often expensive) notebooks equipped with a poor size/resolution combination.

I'm more than well aware of that. I was thinking about acquiring a new monitor around '09, but then suddenly 1920x1200 went out of fashion. Not caring to pay double I stuck with my older 1280x1024. I don't consider some extra space on the side a worthwhile upgrade. Anyway, I'm glad we're finally out of that slump, but vertical space simply never became any more precious than it was in the '90s no matter how much we might detest the lack of progress.

My whole story is that 1024x768 is the lowest user-friendly resolution (down mostly to modern programs' GUI assumptions than to anything inherent in 600 vertical px).

Yes. On win 8+ even the boot logo is 1024x768

1366x768 is annoying, but it's a usable resolution with a little extra on the side.

You said. "Usable". My 1280x800 notebooks are "confortable" it means that I can use the same screen area with an extra space rougly measurable in "one taskbar".

No matter if the windows taskbar, an additional browser bar, or the media control bar of a media player, is something that was stolen on 16/9 display.

I was thinking about acquiring a new monitor around '09, but then suddenly 1920x1200 went out of fashion

Well thanks god someone realized it and now here (in Italy) a decent  24'' 1920x1200 monitor can find a new home with just 160€ or even less.

Even android 16/10 tablets are now easier to find than their 16/9 counterparts.

Frankly I believe that a relevant part of the Apple success is due to the better display formats they offered. 4/3 for tablets and a lot of 16/10 display for notebooks, when the rest of the world moved blindly to the 16/9 idiocy.

Frankly I believe that a relevant part of the Apple success is due to the better display formats they offered. 4/3 for tablets and a lot of 16/10 display for notebooks, when the rest of the world moved blindly to the 16/9 idiocy.

I hate that term "Retina" (you'd need twice the resolution for that in my not at all humble opinion), but I thank Apple from the bottom of my heart for leading the (mainstream) way in improving pixel density and not blindly succumbing to idiotic aspect ratios.

I hate that term "Retina"

I hate it too given my Sonyericsson X1 (300dpi circa) was in my pocket almost three year before the Iphone 4 was released and the term Retina was advertised.

you'd need twice the resolution for that in my not at all humble opinion

Surely isn't needed on notebooks, it's even an annoyance, especially in windows, because compatibility reasons.

Is more than welcome on cellphones and tablet especially for people who use them as ebook reader.

BTW Is something of concrete even non notebooks, visually can't be a bed thing and even if the human eye can't spot the difference consciously, maybe the combination eye/brain, can.

After all is what happens with CDs, that can play sounds from 20 to  20Khz, covering the audible spectrum, but DATs (and even the old vinyls) sounds way better.

I'm impressed with the progress of this project but have some suggestions and feature requests of my own. It would be appreciated if you guys move the entire tab bar up like old Opera next to minimize/maximize /close button and do not waste vertical space. I just had a chance to look at your to be added list but could not find pop up blocker feature on a par with Opera Presto, you guys plan to add it? My another concern is over lack of home button, it's a must have for me other must have features are:
Hyperlink text selection like old good Opera 12.
"Open with..." option in context menu as well tab menu too.
Another suggestion I have is, make all toolbars visible when you move cursor up while in full screen mode just like Firefox.

My another concern is over lack of home button, it's a must have for me

This is already possible by redefining the toolbar by JSON as described here https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=357.msg31923#msg31923

The button name you want is GoToHomePageAction

Hyperlink text selection like old good Opera 12.

I have created a bug ticket that cites this issue. Maybe this extension will eventually work https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/select-like-a-boss
Even though of course it would be best to incorporate it somehow.

"Open with..." option in context menu as well tab menu too.

I'm also waiting for these.

Another suggestion I have is, make all toolbars visible when you move cursor up while in full screen mode just like Firefox.

I prefer the way Opera does it. Right now Otter does something in between FF and old Opera. The best way to proceed is to keep ading configuration options and settings.

It would be appreciated if you guys move the entire tab bar up like old Opera next to minimize/maximize /close button and do not waste vertical space.

https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/30

"Open with..." option in context menu as well tab menu too.

https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/337

I have created a bug ticket that cites this issue. Maybe this extension will eventually work https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/select-like-a-boss (https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/select-like-a-boss)
Even though of course it would be best to incorporate it somehow.

Bleh, it's even more overcomplicated than previous effort:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/109

I just had a chance to look at your to be added list but could not find pop up blocker feature on a par with Opera Presto, you guys plan to add it?

Yes, it's not on the list but option is already available in UI (but disabled for now).

@ersi and @Emdek, thank you guys for quick response. @ersi I'm really not a tech guy  :(. Biology student to be specific :P. I could get working fanboy ultimate list in content blocking with the help of your guide in the above mentioned link but I'm clueless how to edit that toolBar.json file as it's all clutter I find when I open it. (BTW Otter crashes if you try to use "save link target as"). I tried to copy text in json file and tried to edit it with your only address bar suggestion in the same post and home button to no effect. I'd appreciate it if you could help me out here as I'm really clueless what went wrong. :nervous:

I'm clueless how to edit that toolBar.json file as it's all clutter I find when I open it.

When I was on Windows, I used Notepad++ instead of Notepad. Notepad++ is a much better editor.

Emdek, regarding the tabbar on a side, that is also my beloved, very important feature which forced me to leave new Opera, and search for FF addon. And the bookmarks bar on the right. All together save a vertical space.
For now moving tabbar to the left works but still with vertical tabs and text, just FYI.

BTW Otter crashes if you try to use "save link target as"

I'll check that, QtWebKit had some odd issues with built-in actions under Windows, but right now we are using own actions, so it should be easier to fix it.

@Pref, see:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/110

Thanks @ersi and @Emdek. Is there any way to disable status bar? Also looking forward to tab stacking and indication of web page fully loaded as in Opera Presto in which tab corner is folded. I used to use Restart button in Opera Presto, is there any way I can use this command in Otter browser? I observed another issue, not a major one, sometimes favicons do not appear in tabs, especially while searching from address bar, refreshing the tab resolves it, though. 

@Pref, see:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/110

Emdek, yes, I saw it. These are around 1-year old threads, hence, I understand it is planned to be worked on? Or have I missed some solution/workaround?

Is there any way to disable status bar?

To be done as part of:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/31

indication of web page fully loaded as in Opera Presto in which tab corner is folded.

It seems to be a bit unreliable (I have multiple fully loaded tabs in background and only few have it), isn't it skin-dependent?

I used to use Restart button in Opera Presto, is there any way I can use this command in Otter browser?

What was exact purpose of that action?

I observed another issue, not a major one, sometimes favicons do not appear in tabs, especially while searching from address bar, refreshing the tab resolves it, though.

This can wait, we are going to move away from built-in favicon fetcher anyway.

isn't it skin-dependent?

I wouldn't know, I always used default skin in my Opera. I'm not saying that, it should be exact copy of Opera Presto feature, it's just that it would be appreciated if there is an indicator for fully loaded web pages in tabs not visited, may be different colour scheme....??? 

What was exact purpose of that action?

I know, this demand always baffles everybody (It happened in Opera Presto forum, too)! But I really wonder why browser vendors ignore this. When a browser is using lots of ram or high cpu usage or any other reason like browser becomes unresposive or very sluggish and if you have lots of tabs open but don't want to loose your session, this feature comes in handy. And yes, it's WAY different than "continue from last session" which asks you to continue from last session on EVERY browser startup, really annoying! But restart does this ONLY when you restart application and wanna restore your last session. There is an FF addon Restartless Restart, it uses ALT+R shortcut to restart and restore previous session.

I'm not sure whether it's a requested feature or it's uder consideration but "lazy tab loading" or "load tabs in background" whatever you call it, is definitely on my whish list. :D

I know, this demand always baffles everybody (It happened in Opera Presto forum, too)! But I really wonder why browser vendors ignore this. When a browser is using lots of ram or high cpu usage or any other reason like browser becomes unresposive or very sluggish and if you have lots of tabs open but don't want to loose your session, this feature comes in handy. And yes, it's WAY different than "continue from last session" which asks you to continue from last session on EVERY browser startup, really annoying! But restart does this ONLY when you restart application and wanna restore your last session. There is an FF addon Restartless Restart, it uses ALT+R shortcut to restart and restore previous session.

So you want to restart the browser and continue from last session when the browser becomes sluggish? At the same time keeping a different setting for normal restarts?

What if there's a plugin that is stifling the processes? Would you want that to be restarted too? What I would want to do in this case was to restart the browser with the startup dialogue. Otter's startup dialogue is very good in that it allows you to unselect the offending tab, while you can still go on and start the rest of the session.

What we really need is a command-line argument to start Otter's startup dialogue. This would solve these problems.

@ersi thanks for the reply. I don't think you understood what I want to say. I wanna have the session restored only when I RESTART the browser. "continue from last session" is presented on EVERY browser startup if enabled  or (sometimes in case of Classic Opera) when browser crashes. Why would I want to restore my last session every now and then? Nope, it's only when I feel that browser is using more ram than usual or unusually sluggish or some extension(s) acting up. I share with you my own experience in this regard, I installed some Classic Opera extension (don't remember the name) and it wasn't working the way it should, I had almost 10-12 tabs open and obviously didn't want to close the session, I restarted the browser, now extension was working fine with all my session restored. If I had "continue from last session" option enabled, this would perform the exact same task, no doubt about that but I would be presented with "continue from last session" on every browser startup and if you disable the option there is no way you can restore your last session when you close and reopen it. In short I want this only ONE time command, don't want to be greeted on every  browser startup whether I wanna restore my last session when I close and reopen it. I hope, I was able to convey my concern effectively.

@ersi thanks for the reply. I don't think you understood what I want to say. I wanna have the session restored only when I RESTART the browser.

I understood you very well. You want to basically have a Restart button that restores the current session, similar to what is available in FF. And I agree that it is a nice extra convenience. In FF the option pops up when the browser wants, e.g when you install an extension that requires a browser restart. You want it to always be present so that you can restart the browser this way whenever you want. Right?

The point that I tried to make was that in critical cases it actually makes more sense to restart the browser with the startup dialogue, as is provided in Otter and old Opera. It makes sense because in the dialogue you can specifically unselect the offending tab, if you know which one it was. Additionally, when your browser bogs up the system and becomes sluggish, it may not respond at all, and in this case your Restart button would not work either.

I agree that it's an extra convenience to have such a button, but I somewhat disagree how it should work. In my opinion the Restart button should do what Otter normally does after crash: Bring up the startup dialogue.

@ersi I never said that what Otter or Classic Opera does is any bad. I'm just saying that, It does not make any sense, say, when I shut down my computer at night and start it up in the morning next day and I open my browser which I intendedly had closed the other night, present me with the dialogue whether I wanna restore my previous session which I absolutely did not have any intention to. That's why I chose to close the browser without saving the session!!!

Thanks for being patient.

My suggestion is that give priority to adblock in loading webpages. This is recommended because the ads consumes lots of ram and cpu.
Now Otter loads all elements and secondly blocks the ads as I observed - distinctly from other browsers, even Opera.

I wouldn't know, I always used default skin in my Opera. I'm not saying that, it should be exact copy of Opera Presto feature, it's just that it would be appreciated if there is an indicator for fully loaded web pages in tabs not visited, may be different colour scheme.... ???

There is another kind of indicator right now, loader icons is shown instead of favicon until page gets loaded.

I'm not sure whether it's a requested feature or it's uder consideration but "lazy tab loading" or "load tabs in background" whatever you call it, is definitely on my whish list.

You can cross it out from that list, we have that option for looong time already (Browser/DelayRestoringOfBackgroundTabs). ;-)
It seems to be better approach than full restart, default behavior is to restore previous session anyway (at least it applies to default session).

What we really need is a command-line argument to start Otter's startup dialogue. This would solve these problems.

Looks like good idea, any suggestion for good name for such command line option?

@denes, it depends on ruleset, elements that can be removed on request level are blocked without loading them.
You should ask bajasoft on IRC channel for more details, maybe it would be possible to improve that part which uses CSS to block remaining elements.

Quote from: ersi on 2015-02-20, 11:01:01

What we really need is a command-line argument to start Otter's startup dialogue. This would solve these problems.

Looks like good idea, any suggestion for good name for such command line option?

Oline.  :D
Ottline.

Looks like good idea, any suggestion for good name for such command line option?

ottion   ;)

There is another kind of indicator right now, loader icons is shown instead of favicon until page gets loaded.

:no:

(Browser/DelayRestoringOfBackgroundTabs)

Correct me, if I'm wrong but it's not what I'm trying to say. It has got nothing to do with restart fucntion. If my memory serves me well, Lazy tab loading feature is available in Opera Blink. This feature prioritizes the tabs to be loaded first like the tab selected or activated will be loaded first then one by one other tabs, browser does not try to load all tabs at once and there is no need this function only to be used when it's restarted. I think it's useful when you try to open, say, 10 google search links at once then tabs are loaded one by one starting with next to active tab and then accordingly, if you select some tab amongst these, now browser prioritizes that tab first. What you telling me is, FF function wherein tabs ARE NOT LOADED UNTIL SELECTED. It means, you mannually have to activate each and every tab, nope, I guess what Opera Blink does is better. :rolleyes: 

Edit: OK, I checked the above mentioned feature but I don't find any difference before and after enabling it. Tabs behave the same way, perhaps, I'm doing something wrong...???

Ottila  :D
From Attila, the king of the Huns.

Opera has very easy proxy switch, and K-Meleon.

The proxy group show a menu list, i think there's millions people HAVE TO use proxy every day.

What you telling me is, FF function wherein tabs ARE NOT LOADED UNTIL SELECTED.

Yes, it works that way, inactive tabs aren't loaded until selected.

@jasonliul, I'm planning to add such feature, although my inspiration is FoxyProxy.

Opera has very easy proxy switch, and K-Meleon.

K-Meleon yes but Opera?
How many proxies can you set up in Opera Presto?
How many proxies can you set up in Chropera?  Last time I've checked Chropera it used the proxy setting of the OS aka WindowsExploder.

I'm planning to add such feature, although my inspiration is FoxyProxy.

Can you define the protocols for each proxy separately in FoxyProxy?

@jasonliul, I'm planning to add such feature, although my inspiration is FoxyProxy.

Thanks Emdek, most new browser will focus safe & private.
Qupzilla never did this, chinese guys doesn't like it.
:jester:

@krake, I have no idea how does it work right now in that addon, last time I've used it was before 2010. ;-)
I guess that we should go for allowing to create sets just like right now in Advanced configuration or defining paths to separate PAC files, keeping No Proxy and System Configuration as special entries in menu.

I threw a look at it since I was looking for a decent extension for Firefox.
I can't tell how it was before 2010 because at that time I still was a pleased Opera Presto user.
Now that it was sold it became something I have no use for... Hence my question to you. ;-)

The below is not a request but my personal opinion:
Direct connection, system proxy settings and manual proxy settings should be available. Firefox has them and any decent browser should.

Toggling proxy off or on to one of the above proxy settings can be accomplished through an extension without frills which also gives a button to visualize the state. That's what I have in Firefox and Opera Presto.

In K-Meleon I have all the above + I can set up as many proxies (HTTP, HTTPS, SOCKS) as I wish.
Furthermore I can switch among the different proxy set ups by right-clicking the button.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only problem I can see with PAC files, most average users might get overcharged by creating them. ;-) [s][/s]

here is small request by me
although dunno if it was already asked

Otter can do "inspect element" on webpage and launch its editor
but would be nice if it could just like old Opera to have View Page Source
in plain text (without fancy object colapsing) - as it simply shows better preview :P

@exley, it has own ticket:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/23

The below is not a request but my personal opinion:
Direct connection, system proxy settings and manual proxy settings should be available. Firefox has them and any decent browser should.

Toggling proxy off or on to one of the above proxy settings can be accomplished through an extension without frills which also gives a button to visualize the state. That's what I have in Firefox and Opera Presto.

In K-Meleon I have all the above + I can set up as many proxies (HTTP, HTTPS, SOCKS) as I wish.
Furthermore I can switch among the different proxy set ups by right-clicking the button.

I agree with this. This is not just for security reasons. In countries that heavily filter the internet, such as China or Iran, advanced proxying is a requirement for basic usability.

Quote from: ersi on 2015-02-20, 11:01:01

What we really need is a command-line argument to start Otter's startup dialogue. This would solve these problems.

Looks like good idea, any suggestion for good name for such command line option?

otter-browser --startup

Wouldn't something like --show(startup)dialog look a little less weird? :P

Wouldn't something like --show(startup)dialog look a little less weird? :P

I'd prefer --startupdialog in that case. I mainly aimed for something brief. If my original suggestion is too weird, then there should be a short alias too. For example

otter-browser -d

My suggestion is that give priority to adblock in loading webpages. This is recommended because the ads consumes lots of ram and cpu.
Now Otter loads all elements and secondly blocks the ads as I observed - distinctly from other browsers, even Opera.

Indeed, this is what I always took adblock to mean: Don't connect to the specified addresses. Now it seems that adblock developers merely prevent displaying specified stuff, while the browser still connects and downloads everything.

Are we really forced to build adblocks into the firewall now?

I'd prefer --startupdialog in that case. I mainly aimed for something brief. If my original suggestion is too weird, then there should be a short alias too. For example

otter-browser -d

It's more that I like options to be as self-explanatory as possible. --startupdialog fits the bill.

@ersi, @Frenzie, added as --sessionchooser.
We can think about one letter aliases when list of options will stabilize.

@ersi, @Frenzie, added as --sessionchooser.
We can think about one letter aliases when list of options will stabilize.

Great. I just tried it. But I notice you did not update the man page.

@ersi, indeed, fixed.

@rappelkiste_src, yeah, I know which one. :-)
One is toggle for entire sidebar, second one is switcher for active panel plus button to add new ones.

Found the "hidden secret" afew days ago, the sidebar panel switcher.  :up:     THANK YOU very much.


Two questions:

1. Who will sorting my bookmarks (hundreds) and folders (dozens) alphabetical?
2. With Opera 12.x I can zoom in and out with the keys/shortcuts "+" and "-". Is there a chance to get this feature?

The search field is sticky and always easy accessible,
If this function is already available please explain me how to set it up

@rincewind: Try the shortcut "Strg + F", then a searchbar opens at the top of the page. Type in the word you want to search in this page.

@rappelkiste I know and use this 'search' bar (which is btw not funktioning properly), but why not invoke it by just entering the phrase into the search bar?

Here's a suggestion for a feature regarding the download manager:
There's an active download and the user tries to close the browser. A dialog window appears, offering three options--(1) do not exit the browser, (2) cancel the download and close the browser or (3) wait for the download to finish and then close the browser automatically.

@rappelkiste I know and use this 'search' bar (which is btw not funktioning properly), but why not invoke it by just entering the phrase into the search bar?

I see, never use the search bar, I use the normal adressbar for everything. In Opera 12.x you can enter "f" and the word to search in page. That would be a nice feature for otter, too. Just like the search about a shortcut.

Hello all,
I've been watching the Otter development for a while and first I wanted to thank all who are involved in this project. Old Opera 12.x was really good and it's great to see that Otter is getting closer to it step by step.

Then, back to topic. My first feature request is that when tabbar is moved from default (horizontal) position to vertical position, left or right side on the screen, the tabs themselves would not turn 90 degrees but stayed horizontal.

Then, a way to sort bookmarks alphabetically would be nice. Currently they are in random order after importing from other source.

Also, Opera 12 had "Split View" for dividing bookmark list into two parts. The upper part showed folders, and the lower part showed the contents of the selected content. No other browser can be set like this (by default).

@rappelkiste I know and use this 'search' bar (which is btw not funktioning properly), but why not invoke it by just entering the phrase into the search bar?

Of course I meant search field not search bar, else it's nonsense

Its good browser, still immature but powerfull , I found this after i search for vivaldi in google. anyway I tried this , its all work smooth , I d like to have tab placement , be it in bottom , left right top, as I still not notice it in the next list of feature. Please add it. Also I notice in new release it seem search text edit is seem out of place [un match with another element in UI]

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2Fjj09q9.jpg&hash=e4dade025965edb335475384399897fe" rel="cached" data-hash="e4dade025965edb335475384399897fe" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i57.tinypic.com/jj09q9.jpg)


Thanks

You can already place the tab bar at the bottom, just drag it and drop it there!

It can also be placed on the left or right, but at the moment with the drawback that tabs rotate 90º and are vertical, which is far from ideal. Horizontal tabs at the side are coming in the future.

Find in page via search bar

The search field is sticky and always easy accessible,
If this function is already available please explain me how to set it up

If you mean to use the search field next to the address field for find-in-page, then +1.

Also, Opera had find-in-page in the address field, triggered by the keyword f.

Maybe the easiest way to create this feature is to allow a keyword for find-in-page in the search field and address field. The keyword should show up as a search engine among other search engines in Preferences > Search and be configurable and removable/re-doable like all other search engines. 

Hi, i really like the browser so far. i have a question about speed dial though.
Will it be implemented in otter? i couldn't find anything in planned features.

Who will sorting my bookmarks (hundreds) and folders (dozens) alphabetical?

Sorting will be added in future.

With Opera 12.x I can zoom in and out with the keys/shortcuts "+" and "-". Is there a chance to get this feature?

You can add set these shortcuts in Preferences -> Advanced -> Keyboard.

@rappelkiste I know and use this 'search' bar (which is btw not funktioning properly), but why not invoke it by just entering the phrase into the search bar?

What kind of issues have you noticed there?

@Milesius, such option could be useful sometimes, we can consider it.

My first feature request is that when tabbar is moved from default (horizontal) position to vertical position, left or right side on the screen, the tabs themselves would not turn 90 degrees but stayed horizontal.

It's planned as part of:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/190

Then, a way to sort bookmarks alphabetically would be nice. Currently they are in random order after importing from other source.

Planned.

Also, Opera 12 had "Split View" for dividing bookmark list into two parts. The upper part showed folders, and the lower part showed the contents of the selected content. No other browser can be set like this (by default).

Currently there are no plans to add this specific feature, but it could be reconsidered in future.

@fajar, you can change location of tab bar by dragging its handle.
I guess that it might be a good idea to add this to context menu, there were way too many requests for this feature which exists for very long time.

@keen, yes:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/125

Thank you for the fast answer. i am really looking forward to use this browser. i love that the mouse gestures are already implemented. keep up the good work. i love it. :)

I do not know if this is too much but I would love to make updates/installation just along with all other software running. No message "it is strongly recommended to close other apps... and so on". Just like FileZilla does it.  :) And I believe old Opera also was updated in a background.

And I believe old Opera also was updated in a background.

Not so. The (auto-)updater was introduced fairly late, maybe at version 9. Until then people updated by downloading the new release.

I would favour an (auto-)updater only at a stable stage, and when there's a policy that says that features don't get removed with new releases. Only then will it be safe to update in the background.

small request by me
would be nice that somewhere on either right or left side of zoom control at the bottom
shows on what zoom number it is on, as hovering over thingy is bit annoying
especially if you use hotkeys to do this zoom in/out

@ersi, it can optional, and if there would be such feature then it would be definitely only optional.
Currently bajasoft is working on notifications when new version is available.

@exley, it was already requested, there might be separate widget or option for existing one. ;-)

@exley, it was already requested, there might be separate widget or option for existing one. ;-)

Perhaps provide more optional designs or modes for the zoom control. One is the current slider.

The other could be a numerical display between the minus and plus buttons, e.g. literally 125% between the minus and plus buttons.

I think some might even like an option to zoom in/out by means of mouse-scroll above the zoom control, similar to the way we can scroll volume over the volume icon in most desktop environments, and the volume icon roughly indicates the volume level. [Hey, this works already now :D ]

I placed the address field into the menu bar, also back and forth buttons.
            "MenuBarWidget",
            "GoBackAction",
            "ReloadOrStopAction",
            "GoForwardAction",
            "AddressWidget",
            "GoAction"
Now I would like to use the navigation bar for other things like referrer switching, scroll to top function and search field.
Is there a chance to get a keyboard shortcut for showing/hiding the navigation bar (or a custom bar)?

Also, I found a small bug: I cannot place the "MenuBarWidget" as last item in the list, that shortens the address field and it seems as if there is a 'return' after it.

Hello.

The browser gets better. Last time I checked it was beta 2 and I was pretty unimpressed. Now I took a look at the weekly65*.zip (because beta 4 wasn't very impressive either) and it resembles Opera's features much more.

You can already place the tab bar at the bottom, just drag it and drop it there!

But I can't drag the tab bar anywhere. No matter if I try to trag the bar, the only tab on there - of course the the tool bars are not fixed/locked.

Being able to put the tab bar on the bottom and site specific setting where the features I recognized missing first and most important to me. In the weekly65 (and I guess some earlier releases, too) the second feature is finally implemented, but I hope not done with.

So I guess I might be doing something wrong if I still can't move the tab bar (or any bar) around even though Al-Khwarizmi says otherwise. Any idea what it might be?

Thank you for your help and work.

Maybe Otter might be the browser to go for me after all when Opera 11.64 (I don't like the regressions in the Opera 12 finals and Opera 12 alpha is too unstable) doesn't work for me anymore. The number of websites that aren't really working in O11 is growing. Fortunately most of them are irrelevant to me.

Btw: I'd like the browser to be truely portable, i.e. no folder and file creation in the user/appdata/local folder!

@rincewind, I cannot promise shortcuts for toggling individual toolbars, we don't support shortcuts for dynamic actions, but that might be added later.
For sure it will be possible when there will be toolbars API for scriptlets, but allowing only that approach would be more complicated to end users.

Menu bar is complicated case, see:
https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-45226
To workaround that limitation only one of toolbars (as due to another limitation, related to global menu bars, its layout is: left ToolBarWidget, QMenuBar, right ToolBarWidget) is resized to occupy empty space (otherwise sizing goes nuts).

@o11-user, there was a temporary regression due to moving to custom toolbars management, you can do that again when compiling form master branch.

Yes, there will be more improvements for site specific preferences.

You can use browser with --portable switch, then profile is stored in sub folder in the same directory as main binary file.

Emdek, thank you very much for the reply and helpful information!

Hi,
I just wanted to ask for some option in the tab managment, which might be helpful for some circumstances.
I think about a permanent private tab; the main usage in my view would be isolating pages with regard to credentials (e.g. Google, FB and others, in order to prevent their linking and interchanging the data with affiliated sites browsed in the same time).
I believe, the private tabs (or windows) can manage such isolation already, but it is less handy for regular usage - manually loging repeatedly.
I guess with regard to the user interface, it might be sufficient to have a menu option for an open private tab to remain persistent, ie to reopen it with the previous content after a new start of the browser (assuming this is set as the startup option generally).
Of course, there are more complex possibilities too (e.g. a dedicated category of an "isolated tab" or window respectively, which would behave like this, these could be saved in bookmarks with this additional setting etc.
As far as I know, inorder to achieve this, one has to use a separate browser currently, or am I missing some existing options?
Do you think, it would be doable and interesting for the users?
regards,
      vbr

@Emdek

Is it possible to adapt --privatesession for the kind of usage that vbr describes? Or does it already work roughly like this?

@vbr

Have you tried --privatesession? Is something missing there what you need?

@vbr

Have you tried --privatesession? Is something missing there what you need?

Hi, Thanks for the hint, this flag behaves like the regular private window (which is probably intended).
It would need to add some persistence (preferably over tabs rather than windows, but the difference doesn't matter much). Are there maybe some other flags regarding persistence, which could be combined with --privatesession? (I am currently only using --portable, which obviously doesn't matter here.) Those tabs would be recovered after closing and reopening the browser and would keep the site content including state, previously supplied credentials etc. - much like regular tabs do just now (if restoring the tabs is checked as startup option); however this state would not be accessible for sites open in other regular tabs.
I could find some references on site isolation/ tab isolation/ process islolation in similar context on the web, but they seem to deal with the stability of the browser with respect to crashes of individual page tabs rather than with the separating of the credentials,  I am primarily thinking about.
thanks and regards,
     vbr

@vbr, what about disabling cookies for selected websites?

@vbr, what about disabling cookies for selected websites?

Well, that might work well in general, but it would require determining, which "target sites" are involved, ideally, in advance, before loading them. It seems more straightforward to me to avoid logging into such global service, where tracking the online activity can be expected. But anyway, it can be achieved by using another browser or with private tabs (in the latter case without the persistence).
Regards,
    vbr

@vbr, what about grouping them in one folder in bookmarks and adding an option to open them as private tabs?
That approach definitely won't backfire (which is possible when tempering with private sessions). ;-)

I have also noticed that autologin (or whatever to call it, there can be also other privacy issues involved) by means of cookies is becoming a terrible trend. For example at work we are logged in to mail.google, and then any other google page I open (search, maps, yt), I see I am logged in to those too without ever in my life having done so explicitly anywhere.

Probably a solution could be:

- Always open up the private session first and foremost, and browse with that, i.e. basically have private mode checked in the settings.
- When you need to log in to some website, open up a different, non-private session (a homesession)

Perhaps it would help to provide a switch to quickly toggle a tab between private mode and homesession mode (like in Opera there was author mode and user mode for webpages). This seems necessary, because in private session you can only open private tabs, so when you open a new tab with a website where you want to log in and preserve cookies, you need to switch the tab to homesession mode.

Not sure if this toggle should be sticky or not. If sticky, it could be simply Website Preferences/Privacy/Enable cookies - and the privatemode indicator vanishes from the tab.

@ersi, when grouping will become available then we could consider "private groups", having cookie jar set per group, the same way like is currently done for opening new tabs from private one, they share single, private cookie jar.

@ersi, when grouping will become available then we could consider "private groups", having cookie jar set per group, the same way like is currently done for opening new tabs from private one, they share single, private cookie jar.

By 'grouping' you mean stacking?

And I have a question about tiling and cascading - will this also be tied to stacking as it is in Vivaldi? (not to my liking)

Where is the best place to post feature requests for the forum itself?

For example, Id like a discussion added for equipment -- not just cameras but tripods, accessories, The Kit, and so on.

You mean like here? https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?board=3.0

Most imaginable questions to do with the forum itself can be presented to the administrator https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=10.0

@vbr, what about grouping them in one folder in bookmarks and adding an option to open them as private tabs?...

Thanks, this definitively would be an improvement - however, as I understand it, these wouldn't be recovered on new start of the browser, right?
On the other hand, the approach mentioned later might enable this:

@ersi, when grouping will become available then we could consider "private groups", having cookie jar set per group, the same way like is currently done for opening new tabs from private one, they share single, private cookie jar.

Is grouping meant visually - i.e. tab stacking in Opera 12 or would it be somehow internally connected with the bookmark folders mentioned earlier?
Certainly it would be an improvement to have multiple controllable "data spaces" for the site data like credentials etc.; a single shared one for all private tabs seems to be "less than ideal" too.
For what is it worth, I am now trying a "poor man's approach" with two separate program folders of Otter, both run with --portable flag. The separation as well as the persistence seems to work well, however, it would be of course less handy, if multiple separate workspaces would be needed :-).
I bet, there might be some flag for the path of the profile data to be used with --portable, which would certainly simplify this approach; is it maybe the case? are the available flags listed somewhere?
Regards,
    vbr

By 'grouping' you mean stacking?

And I have a question about tiling and cascading - will this also be tied to stacking as it is in Vivaldi? (not to my liking)

Yes, grouping means stacking.
And no, I don't see reason to add not needed complexity. ;-)
It would be even way harder to do something more than "basic" (that includes cascading, tiling etc, all built-in in Qt) MDI.

Thanks, this definitively would be an improvement - however, as I understand it, these wouldn't be recovered on new start of the browser, right?

Yes, it would not.

Is grouping meant visually - i.e. tab stacking in Opera 12 or would it be somehow internally connected with the bookmark folders mentioned earlier?

Yes, it is.
This might have different name too, as it would be enough to allow to use separate cookie jars for specified groups, private mode might be too much.

This could be treated more like a fourth level of settings inheritance, right now there are global settings, per site overrides and tab specific settings (these are the most important ones, overriding all other settings) with addition of sharing resources.
Kind of like multiple profiles loaded into single window, but with some limitations etc.
I'll need to rethink it, design it properly so it would be user friendly, powerful and without too big impact on complexity of the code.

... This could be treated more like a fourth level of settings inheritance, right now there are global settings, per site overrides and tab specific settings (these are the most important ones, overriding all other settings) with addition of sharing resources.
Kind of like multiple profiles loaded into single window, but with some limitations etc. ...

Thanks for considering this, it really looks like a promising (and unique as far as I know) feature. Of course, tab stacking is useful on its own.
   vbr

In connection with all the ideas on stacking, privatising, etc. there is also the question how and if to show things in the upcoming Windows&Tabs panel.

Windows panel in Opera was another place to review and manage the situation of tabs and Windows.

- Windows panel showed all open tabs, organised as per Windows to which they belonged.
- Provided drag-and-drop to reorder the tabs.

In Otter this is the minimum that should be created, but in addition:

- Windows panel should show detached tabs (a la True detach, not belonging to any Window) under Detached category or some such
- Stacked tabs 
- Provide reordering between all these categories via drag-and-drop.

But I think it gets too complicated to show in Windows&Tabs panel things like to what Session the tabs/windows belong and Private tabs versus Normal tabs/windows. I can't imagine how to make these things visually explicit in addition to what I have listed.

@ersi, there was already some discussion on github, we can have an option to show other sessions there, so dragging entries from there could open them in current session etc.

This topic shouldn't be discussed in this thread as it is already too big...

Just last two cents, I'm planning to start working on data model to keep information about current session in cleaner way than it is done currently (well, currently it depends on TabBarWidget which is bad ;-)).

You mean like here? https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?board=3.0 (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?board=3.0)

Either there or "hobbies". I could see it fitting in both.

For example, Id like a discussion added for equipment -- not just cameras but tripods, accessories, The Kit, and so on.

You can always just start a topic on that kind of thing. ;)

Hi,
I just noticed another feature mentioned previously and wanted to ask about the current status (and perspectives). This is the support for user javascript; there is a notice in the respective github issue:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/336
according to it, the feature isn't that difficult to add per se, the problem beeing an effective url matching mechanism.
I'd like to ask, whether it would be feasible, to use fixed settings to domains - maybe via the site settings dialog - scripting  - in the same way like user css.
A finer differentiation of the URLs could then be delegated to the code of the scriptfile itself.
I believe the mechanism of the site settings would be reused, which is already in place, and ideally no additional slowdown would occur (for pages with no userscript set).
Possibly, a global userscript could be supported too, if neede - it could be managed via Settings - Advanced - Content (together with user CSS).
(I am not sure, whethere one script file for a specific site is sufficient, or whether these should rather be folders, but the logic might be the same.)
Would someting like that be doable, or are there other limitations not mentioned in the github discussion?
(Please let me know, what is the preferable form and place of such posts - this "Features" thread, a new dedicated thread in this forum, or maybe the github issue?)
Thanks and regards,
    vbr

@vbr, currently there is a new blocker, QtWebEngine itself, which is supposed to introduce basic built-in support for them in Qt 5.5.
We need to wait for API freeze (Qt 5.5 beta, should be available soon) and then create our own APIs so these could map easily to what will be offered by QtWebEngine.

Hey, thank you for the new release.

So, one thing I miss is that little box that appears when you try to download something on Opera 12. It ask if you want to save, open (opera saved the file in a temporary folder) or save in another directory. That was really good because something you make a download but you just want to open fast and keep your download folder clean.

It ask if you want to save, open (opera saved the file in a temporary folder) or save in another directory.

+1 That's really missing.

Another thing from Opera that would be convenient is the question whether you really want to quit the program. It's annoying if Otter with a dozen tabs open is closed because you accidentally click the X.
And it would be convenient to have an option (like in Opera) to show the X (close button for the tab) on the main window instead of each tab. The X on the tab slows you down if you have a lot of tabs open and want to change between them as you have to aim exactly in order not to close a tab by accident.

So far Otter not to be used immediately!Sorry!http://www.dobreprogramy.pl/Otter-Browser-Write in Polish! Program,Windows,55060.html.Vivaldi is also poor.Opera 28/29 is good.

I find both Otter and Opera/Blink usable. Vivaldi isn't because of its non-native interface (which doesn't care about your DPI settings, for instance). What is it you're having trouble with specifically?

Another thing from Opera that would be convenient is the question whether you really want to quit the program. It's annoying if Otter with a dozen tabs open is closed because you accidentally click the X.

I also hope this will be implemented. Until then, you can reopen browser with otter-browser --sessionchooser and select continue from last session.

And it would be convenient to have an option (like in Opera) to show the X (close button for the tab) on the main window instead of each tab. The X on the tab slows you down if you have a lot of tabs open and want to change between them as you have to aim exactly in order not to close a tab by accident.

The X on each tab can be hidden with TabBar/ShowCloseButton in about:config. The x in the upper corner will make sense when full MDI gets implemented, complete with tiling, cascading and free resizing.

The X on each tab can be hidden with TabBar/ShowCloseButton in about:config.

Thanks. That's convenient. I mostly close my tabs with mouse gesture anyway.

@Rômulo, @py-thon, here is related ticket:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/58

Another thing from Opera that would be convenient is the question whether you really want to quit the program.

Use Choices/WarnQuit, you can set it to alwaysWarn.

Password manager.
I've been waiting so long for this.
I think this is the most useful and necessary feature.
There are many websites which I can't use fully without login, but I can't remember the passwords, and writing/copying them is tiresome.
When will be added?

@denes, hopefully for next beta.

Is it somehow possible to mark several bookmarks to be opened as a group?
Maybe via a marker set by right-click or in bookmarks manager.

Is it somehow possible to mark several bookmarks to be opened as a group?
Maybe via a marker set by right-click or in bookmarks manager.

You mean like in Opera you can select random items with Ctrl+Click and open them by Enter? Would be nice to have in Otter too, yes.

Is it somehow possible to mark several bookmarks to be opened as a group?

:no: ,only with confirmation, please! I once accidentally opened all of my Opera bookmarks... The only sensible solution is to quit the program immediately.

:no: ,only with confirmation, please! I once accidentally opened all of my Opera bookmarks... The only sensible solution is to quit the program immediately.

There's WarnOpenBookmarkFolder in about:config and it works for me. Doesn't it work for you?

Scroll x lines/pages with mouse wheel setting

Quote from: py-thon on 2015-05-10, 17:49:59

:no: ,only with confirmation, please! I once accidentally opened all of my Opera bookmarks... The only sensible solution is to quit the program immediately.

There's WarnOpenBookmarkFolder in about:config and it works for me. Doesn't it work for you?

I tried this thing:

• Create a bookmarks folder


• Fill it with a few bookmarks


• Assign a unique keyword to the bookmark folder


• Open up the QuickBookmark thingie (Shift+F2 by default) and type the keyword (also the normal address field is okay for this step)


• A warning pops up

This is sufficiently considerate, IMHO. I guess a random selection would work the same way.

Doesn't it work for you?

It probably does, I never tried. According to your and rincewind's posts it is not possible to open multiple bookmarks so it didn't come to my mind that there might already be a warning against doing what as yet cannot be done.  :)

Quote from: ersi on 2015-05-10, 20:30:41

Doesn't it work for you?

It probably does, I never tried. According to your and rincewind's posts it is not possible to open multiple bookmarks so it didn't come to my mind that there might already be a warning against doing what as yet cannot be done.  :)

Multiple bookmarks can be opened. Entire folders can be opened.

A random selection of multiple bookmarks cannot be opened in Otter, but can be opened in Opera.

I like favicons - but only coming along with my saved Bookmarks in my Bookmarks Bar...
Everywhere else I don't need them. Is there any chance of such an option?

And compared to other Browsers Opera (Presto) showed the remaining time of a download "minimized" in the taskbar - probably you know what I mean.

By the way: What do I have exactly to do in order to test and to start Otter portable?

@florian17, it's a good timing, as storage of favicons is currently planned to be overhauled:
https://github.com/OtterBrowser/otter-browser/issues/820
In case of favicons I'm currently considering an option to manually set icon per bookmark (with ability to import them and set that way if possible), separate from main storage (basically embedding them into our bookmarks.xbel).

Do you mean remaining time as window title, which in turn was shown there?

To use it as portable you simply need to extract files into one folder and then start otter-browser.exe with parameter --portable, then profile data and cache will be stored in subfolders of that directory.

Please change latvian list. Current list is here.
https://notabug.org/latvian-list/adblock-latvian/raw/master/lists/latvian-list.txt
;)

modified 09.06.2015 utc01:23

@kanakomoerer, thanks.
Although there is one issue, that list doesn't contain update URL...

and let the tabs on the left side stay open

@florian17, [...]

Do you mean remaining time as window title, which in turn was shown there?

Probably best shown what I thought of:

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Ffs1.directupload.net%2Fimages%2F150712%2Fr2nrvg6o.png&hash=ff4f2a671c88093f395121e54b473055" rel="cached" data-hash="ff4f2a671c88093f395121e54b473055" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150712/r2nrvg6o.png) (http://www.directupload.net)

QuHno put up a blog post https://vivaldi.net/en-US/blogs/entry/restoring-the-old-opera-12-space-bar-behavior-in-vivaldi

In old Opera, space bar scrolled a screen length. Then, at the end of page, it did Fast Forward.

Fast Forward in Opera pressed the link that spelled out "Next" or some such. In Otter the same action is currently not that useful.

@ersi, when grouping will become available then we could consider "private groups", having cookie jar set per group, the same way like is currently done for opening new tabs from private one, they share single, private cookie jar.

Emdek, if you can, please look here, I mistakenly created a new topic. But, looks like some developers solved that problem, at least Firefox, and Brave:

https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=3359.0

I have one more feature request:
It would be great to switch the browser engine while running Otter browser! So that you could easily view a page rendered be different web enginges (first using the default renderer, then witch to another one, maybe to another version etc.).
This is useful 1. If a pager isn't rendered correctly in a special browser engine and
2. This is especially useful for web developers who could easily test pages using different engines!
This would be a quite nice feature, right??

Or is this possible right now? As far as I know, the browser engine can be chosen (webkit or blink) at compile time, right?

It would be great to switch the browser engine while running Otter browser! So that you could easily view a page rendered be different web enginges (first using the default renderer, then witch to another one, maybe to another version etc.).
This is useful 1. If a pager isn't rendered correctly in a special browser engine and
2. This is especially useful for web developers who could easily test pages using different engines!
This would be a quite nice feature, right??

Or is this possible right now? As far as I know, the browser engine can be chosen (webkit or blink) at compile time, right?

You can switch between WebKit and WebEngine through the Backends/Web option in about:config. But I'm not sure you can switch live (I doubt it would even be feasible); you'll probably have to restart the browser.
Right now on Windows there's a separate "experimental" WebEngine version. So both browser engines are available for download. The WebEngine version is experimental because many features you take for granted in WebKit must be implemented manually in WebEngine. But I guess some time in the near future, both browser engines will be fully and equally supported and maybe we'll see them both bundled in the same setup. Or it may be too big to download, I don't know. You'll have to wait for @Emdek to shed some light on the matter.
On BSD and Linux, if you have fairly up-to-date packages you should already have access to both engines.

A much better alternative that is also readily available is to simply run two concurrent instances, each with it's own profile and cache directory (hint: --profile and --cache command line switches).