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General => DnD Central => Topic started by: rjhowie on 2015-11-25, 02:47:04

Title: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-25, 02:47:04
The shooting down of the Russian plane is a two-faced item. The Turks say the plane was warned 10 times in 5 minutes then they shot it down as it was in their space for 17 seconds? Now the same Turkey had a fighter shot down by the Syrian Air Force about 5 years ago - remember that one? Turkey complained their air-plane was only over the Border for seconds so how is that for open hypocrisy? This fact is suitably pushed aside.

The rebels who shot the 2 airmen as they floated down chanted slogans that hardly sounded like "moderates" and are supported by Turkey. Now the Geneva Convention makes it clear that parachutists should not be shot at. When one considers that there are sections of these so-called moderate rebels are far from that they are playing a damn sneaky game. Plus the hundreds of lorries that go into ISIL territory for oil which funds the Isalmist fanatics are also Turkish!
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-25, 03:12:46
But -of course- no one will mention tactical nukes as an option… (Oops! Someone just did. A rat hole needs to be expurged.) The Long War has an unavoidable battle with ISIS/ISIL/Daesh… And our current administration hasn't the ability to act when action is necessary: So, that likely-hood becomes tangible.

Iran's mullahs must be salivating! :( (And Putin is likely having second thoughts…)
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-26, 00:04:43
What do you know about Turkey?
Was not for Turkey and our civilization would had been already invaded by the Ottomans.

Course that my remark is to rjhowie, Oakdale being a total ignorant on this matter. A parachutist in what he doesn't understand.
Lucky you that I don't  feel to kill parachutists as the ISIS does.

P.S It seems that one of the pilots escaped. Way to go Turkey, nor Russians neither Americans, they're basically all the same.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-26, 00:24:52
Was not for Turkey and our civilization would had been already invaded by the Ottomans.
Your civilization was repeatedly invaded by the Turkish Ottomans… Kemal's coup (and WWI…) was the end of the Ottoman Empire; Turkey's current regime seems keen on reverting even further than the Ottomans.
A sad turn of events, considering how well Atatürk's reforms worked.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-26, 00:37:05
A sad turn of events, considering how well Atatürk's reforms worked.

Atatürk was the father or Turkey and the creator of a secularist state, pro western defensor. He made much more than the USA has ever made regarding Europe.
Actual Turkey is not bad. Not bad at all.

Anyway, the USA never had the obligation of defending Europe. If they did it, was never for my Country that always refused such "help". I don't ever need to thank you nothing but I must recognize Turkey's role defensing Europe.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-26, 00:43:22
Been there lately, like in the last generation? :(
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-26, 00:49:52
Have you been there?
At least I speak with many of them. Do you?
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-26, 01:26:34
Not for quite a while, no. The powers that be are busy building a bridge — back to the seventh century…
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-26, 03:36:05
What a load of distracting stuff that is from Belfrager about what is known about Turkey. We are talking about NOW not the early 20th century or eons ago.

Do I need to remind of Turkey's modern two-faced position?

1. The President of turkey was Prime Minister in 2012 when the Syrian Air Force shot down a Turkish fighter jet for being in their air space. The Turkish PM then complained it was a shocking and ridiculous thing to do as the Rurhish plane was only in Syria space for "several seconds." That clown is now President and he says it is okay to shoot down a plane for a handful of seconds??!
2. The former Prime Minister of France has condemned turkey for the action and it'ssubtle support of Islam terrorists As well as dealing with the oil ISIS is shunting over it's border to make money to continue the terror.
3. A former NATO Commander has condemned Turkey for their games.
4. The President of France has exercised condemnation of the lack of control ove the Border issues and what is traversing them.
5. Obama has yakked about avoiding friction between Russia and Turkey over the Syrian conflict. Kind of interesting considering the amount of weapons from America which have either been stolen by Islamists or even given by "moderates." And the same US President will also be aware of the profits being made in his wonderful NATO ally dealing with oil being processed to pay for ISIS volunteers and wider process of the war.

Turkey is a damnable dodgy place militarily, it's actions and a mess of a place and they get away with anything - so much about Western principles. Oh and by the way the Turks also have a buffer zone INSIDE the Syria border as well where they assist dodgy fighters.

Take your mind out the history books Belfrager and show some sense.


Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2015-11-26, 07:53:19
This is a turkey fight.

Putin has been looking for a war all along. I mean, he is evidently jealous of the extent and scale of American wars, while his own current battles in Ukraine are nearly not big enough in comparison, and earlier intervention in Tiraspol, South Ossetia and Chechnya have ceased to provide fodder to the media.

Why should a direct war between Russia and NATO countries erupt? But why shouldn't it? I doubt it will be called a war though. Things get done with no official declaration these days and they are not called by their right names.

This is a turkey fight.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-26, 08:42:55
An interesting view, ersi. But I doubt Putin is interested in media coverage and social media kudos…
Putin -and his Russia- needs more Russians; and his military needs warn-water ports. That pretty much sums up his motives, geopolitically.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2015-11-26, 15:02:55

An interesting view, ersi. But I doubt Putin is interested in media coverage and social media kudos…
Putin -and his Russia- needs more Russians; and his military needs warn-water ports. That pretty much sums up his motives, geopolitically.

Admittedly, when I only mentioned media, it leaves you with a false impression about what I really think about Putin's motives. Russia may have a geopolitical "need" for warm-water ports, but Putin's motivation and behaviour is irrational rather than rational.

Ever since Peter the Great, Russia has been historically hankering after Istanbul/Constantinople. Russian ideologues throughout 19th century have preached to the Czars the necessity of capturing Constantinople (a la the holy mission of The Third Rome is to liberate the Second Rome from Turks), and how it could be achieved by manipulating Balkan "brothers", but Czars made horrific irrational political moves throughout that century so that Balkan Slavs (not to mention all other Slavs, except for Serbs) are now permanently estranged from Russia. Czars did this probably just to show to the ideologues that the Czar is Samoderzhets (autocrat, an actual title of Russian Czars) and not a follower of any vocal ideologue, even though the ideologue may make perfect geopolitical sense and the Czar not at all.

Now, Turkey has given a perfect pretext to Putin. Putin has two options:

1. Employ the pretext ruthlessly for geopolitical purposes.
2. Continue on the well-trodden incoherent path of the Czars.

My bets are on the second. It will only get more irrational and messier from here.

In my opinion, snatching of Crimea was also irrational. Russia already owned Sevastopol, the crucial warm-water port. By attacking to secure the grip over it they earned the disdain of the world (except for RJ, whereas even Merkel finally panicked and stopped pushing for visa-freedom for Russia).
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-11-26, 15:17:08

This is a turkey fight.


(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fst2.depositphotos.com%2F1037178%2F6309%2Fv%2F450%2Fdepositphotos_63099807-Angry-Turkey-Bird-Ready-to-Fight.jpg&hash=9ce314a338d6d88e0cdc1daa2afd04f7" rel="cached" data-hash="9ce314a338d6d88e0cdc1daa2afd04f7" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://st2.depositphotos.com/1037178/6309/v/450/depositphotos_63099807-Angry-Turkey-Bird-Ready-to-Fight.jpg)
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Barulheira on 2015-11-26, 16:21:45
Where is Jaybro when we need him?!
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-27, 01:58:10
Must say that you are using that typical American nationalism mindset. I would say this about Putin and that is he is a lot cleverer than that bloke in the White House. You also betray that absurd stuff about him wanting to be as militaristic as the USA. Why would anyone of sense want to be like a country that spends half the global armaments stuff, de-stabilise countries that don't give in to the imperialism and US corporate controllers??

The answers to my points as usual totally ignore the points because some don't like to have to answer because they cannot. So although for example, Turkey has broken Greek air space 2,400 time sover the years that is of course okay as well? The trouble with that type of US thinking gives the impression everyone over there is brainwashed when that of course is not the case. Not answering points betrays much! Oh, and by the way. President Putin AND his French counterpart have came to an agreement over air attack co-operation and Russia has done a far better job in that political corner and in the military attacks on ISIL.  :up:
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-27, 11:09:23
Hollande and Putin "talked"… One said Assad must go; the other said, No! Never!

Just the usual European prelude… (Russia has always wanted to be thought part of Europe. :) )
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-11-27, 14:10:11
It looks to me like everybody over there is irrational--- not just Putin.

Russia does have a history of provocative acts--- violating airspace of other countries because they can.

Turkey---- Turkey and Greece have been at loggerheads ever since anybody can remember. Might as well be at loggerheads with Russia too.

Various rebel factions---- you just about have to be irrational to be a rebel, and an Islamic rebel is in a class by himself for irrationality.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-27, 22:31:05
Some information to be had here (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/11/turkey-russia-syria-united-states-downing-of-russian-jet.html?utm_source=Al-Monitor+Newsletter+%5BEnglish%5D&utm_campaign=331a2fe797-November_26_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_28264b27a0-331a2fe797-93066949)…
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-11-27, 23:05:19

Some information to be had here (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/11/turkey-russia-syria-united-states-downing-of-russian-jet.html?utm_source=Al-Monitor+Newsletter+%5BEnglish%5D&utm_campaign=331a2fe797-November_26_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_28264b27a0-331a2fe797-93066949)…


Hmmm.... Oak, that does clear up something. Makes me think Turkey's side of the story isn't out of line anyway. It takes time to scramble a fighter jet and vector it into place so that it can fire a missile. Turkey said they were warning the Russians for 10 minutes--- I would guess it could take that long to get the Turkish fighter into position. Longer if it had to scramble from the ground.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-28, 00:50:17
You are playing with the fire, there's no European country that can beat Turkey these days in terms of military power or geo strategic importance.
Another "conquest" by the German leadership of Europe.

We need them, they don't need us. Simple as that. Thanks to Germany.

For the third time in a row Germans are conducting Europe to destruction and idiots applauds.
Next will be trains to extermination camps. And idiots will keep on applauding.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-11-28, 01:29:47
Belfrager, I suspect you've caught RJHowie disease, and that's a bad disease to get. One of the signs of the disease is that you think anybody outside your hometown is less than human, and the further from your home it gets the less than human the inhabitants get.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ensbb3 on 2015-11-28, 01:40:43
It's hard for them to see the forest with all those damned trees in the way.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-28, 05:16:11
May I say yet again especially to the ex-colonial brained that they have done as always and dance around the list. Can I remind Oakdale and mjsmsprt40 that America is hardly an innocent with all the damn wars they have created where a country will not bow to them. If they got their way with Syria we would have the same damnable mess as in Iraq and Libya. I can also remember the American U2 years ago flying into Russia on a pleasure trip? And what about the large number of air violations by Turkey into Greek space?

It is so easy to swipe at the States be3se of the openly double standards. They include not just the military invasions and all the money I mentioned (half the global total on weaponry) but destabilising and creating mayhem . Inside the USA the hypocrisy over rights, freedoms and much lse is a traversty of all the stuff that is pumped out to the world! There is no other place like it for dominating, arrogance, creating wars. I made a mistake saying there were 400 military bases across the world as my brother who is ex-military has said my total is a 3 figure low!

In addition we get all the hype about terrible Russia whilst overlooking the USA corner. Considering the millions of poor and homeless in the "greatest country in the world" compared to the imperial and corporate military lot it is almost laughable. And even if the Russian plane had crossed the Border for 17 seconds that is okay to shoot down when we consider what Turkey has done regarding gGeece AND the Syrian border?? You lot totally ignored also what I said about the time the Syrian Airforce shot down a Turk plane in it's air space and how Turkey had said it was disgraceful for several minutes?? However the lackies of the US in Turkey say it is okay for them to shoot for only 17 seconds?!

The gobbly-gook about Russia is well just that. The Russian Federation has no interest in going the US imperial way and it annoys you Yanks because Russia is one the perhaps 2 countries you cannot do anything with because it is strong and will not run away. If you dafties are going to keep up this silly second attempt at Cold War stuff and stomp into countries we will just have to wait until you collapse financially. Meantime you will not do down Russia no matter how much it niggles your super nationalist hype!  Turkey as a country is hardly something to boast about when it comes to human rights and freedoms. Recently the press has seen itself being squeezed and 2 senior newspaper men heading for life imprisonment. But the US always shuts a blind eye on "freedom and rights" to get bases in Turkey and the pals in Saudi Arabia which is a hellhole.

President Putin was very principally right when he talked about being stabbed in the back not just in the general fight with ISIL but that Turkey is helping terror nuts just inside Syria and what do you know but well supplied with the latest rocket firers!  :o :down:
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-11-28, 11:13:28
Belfrager, I suspect you've caught RJHowie disease, and that's a bad disease to get. One of the signs of the disease is that you think anybody outside your hometown is less than human, and the further from your home it gets the less than human the inhabitants get.

Nope, I restrict myself to the purest geo strategic reasoning together with the finest political analysis and you haven't show any errors that my vision can eventually have.
Instead, you compare me with rjhowie when me and him are defending opposite things.

As for considering people less than human, I'm afraid you're confusing me with those that defended the Untermenschen theories. You know who they are, don't you? Hint, read the post you are criticizing again, it says it all.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-11-29, 09:21:42
I am afraid that mjsmsprt40 exercises the routine US answers to direct things - avoiding the issues. Instead they drift off elsewhere as they cannot answer direct and obvious challenges.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-30, 04:14:02
there's no European country that can beat Turkey these days in terms of military power or geo strategic importance
France and GB gave up their nuclear weapons? The Turks can only frustrate plans… They haven't even been able -in a great many decades- to deal with the Kurds! And, now that they seem hell-bent on installing Sharia, who won't recognize what a fine staging place that glassy plain would make! :)

But I listen to saner and more experienced voices: Jerry Pournelle says
Quote
Russia is angry with Turkey. There is a dispute over how long the Russian fighter-bomber was over Turkish territory – which is a jutting spur less than ten miles wide. The Turks insist they sent warning after warning that the Russians were approaching their territory, but did not fire until the Russian plane was over Turkey. The Russians claim that it never was over Turkey at all; but even by the Turkish account any rational flight plan would put the Russians over Turkey no more than a minute at longest, and actually the time over Turkey would have been no more than a few seconds. They had to be ready to fire. They claim they were defending their air space; from what is not clear.
(source (https://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/loscon-tomorrow-a-mixed-bag-tonight-a-point-for-ether-theory-they-have-guns-we-have-warthogs/))
——————————————————————
This is an event that might lead to the next world war… :(

Turkey is an insignificant country, except as a staging point… (They can't -and don't need to be- even a bottle-neck! As Tommy Franks showed.)

I'd sooner trust Estonia… (Despite ersi's retrograde opinions. And, if it came to it, prefer Estonia have it's day in the sun: They have greatness in their future… He's a Luddite, i'n't he? :) What place -in a modern world- is there for such?)

BTW: How would you pronounce "Incirlik"…? :) I'd suggest -if Turkey decides to jump that fence- slag 'em … (Not very academically sourced, unless you've read history.)
But not from our current administration, which seems determined to see the end of America. But the next administration, in opposition and retaliation, will likely revert to ancient ways of war: (In short, though it shocks most moderns, win.) I've kept that in parenthesis because most of our "allies" no longer know what that means… :)
We will win. (And the rabble will complain, we shouldn't have!)
—————————————————————————————————————————
RJ will likely get to keep his National Health… :)
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: krake on 2015-11-30, 09:28:57

Was not for Turkey and our civilization would had been already invaded by the Ottomans.
---
Actual Turkey is not bad. Not bad at all.
---
I must recognize Turkey's role defensing Europe.
---
You are playing with the fire, there's no European country that can beat Turkey these days in terms of military power

That must be kind of weird Portuguese humor. :D
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: krake on 2015-11-30, 09:38:54

Balkan Slavs are now permanently estranged from Russia.

Would you mind naming those Balkan Slavs?


This is a turkey fight.

A Turkey fight you say? :)
Erdogan is merely hiding under the skirt of NATO.
How long would you think that a war with Russia would last?


Now, Turkey has given a perfect pretext to Putin. Putin has two options:

1. Employ the pretext ruthlessly for geopolitical purposes.
2. Continue on the well-trodden incoherent path of the Czars.

My bets are on the second. It will only get more irrational and messier from here.

As disappointing as it may be for you, your second bet is right.
Russia won't start WWIII because of a downed plane over Syria by the Turks.
BTW, you are omitting the geopolitical purposes of the Sultan from Ankara... ;)


In my opinion, snatching of Crimea was also irrational.

Knowing your state of mind towards Russians, for sure it was irrational. :)
For the wast majority of Crimeans it was a blessing.

they earned the disdain of the world

The disdain of the world, you say?
The world is more than the USA and its allies...
As for the economic sanctions unleashed under US pressures, they are considered even by most Europeans as a damage that will weaken Europe and will only consolidate the Sino-Russian alliance.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-11-30, 09:41:26
krake, you said a mouthful! But the Portuguese will not understand: He's pinned to his pinafore… And he thinks he's macho! :)

Putin needs Russians! And he has a great many nearby…

As our first president counseled : We should steer clear of Europe's territorial squabbles!

The U.S. –if anyone asks me– should sit this one out.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2015-11-30, 11:01:57


Balkan Slavs are now permanently estranged from Russia.

Would you mind naming those Balkan Slavs?

Bulgarians, Croats, Slovenians. Everybody except Serbs.




In my opinion, snatching of Crimea was also irrational.

Knowing your state of mind towards Russians, for sure it was irrational. :)
For the wast majority of Crimeans it was a blessing.

If by blessing you mean that it satisfied their irrational Putinesque sentiments for the short term, that's true. But that's not what I would call a blessing. There's officially declared crisis right now. Would you say that Eastern Ukrainian war zone is also blessed by, say, Russian humanitarian aid trucks?
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: krake on 2015-11-30, 12:35:54

If by blessing you mean that it satisfied their irrational Putinesque sentiments for the short term, that's true. But that's not what I would call a blessing.

I'm afraid that's you who is driven by (anti-) "Putinesque" sentiments... :)
Crimeans just opted for a better life. Simply as that.
Short term, you say? What do you mean by it? The next 50 years?
As it looks for now Kiew won't be able to offer to its residents a decent living anytime soon. It was very hard during Yanukovych but now it's much worse...


Would you say that Eastern Ukrainian war zone is also blessed by, say, Russian humanitarian aid trucks?

At any rate better than Kiew's bombs and artilleries.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: krake on 2015-11-30, 12:38:54

The U.S. –if anyone asks me– should sit this one out.

Only problem, nobody will ask you. ;)
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: mjmsprt40 on 2015-11-30, 17:14:16
I think Belfrager was thinking of Gallipoli. In that battle in WW1, the Turks did a number on the British/Australian/NewZealand expeditionary forces.

The attack on Gallipoli was poorly managed from the start, and Churchill seemed determined to make every possible mistake that could be made planning the thing. His generals and admirals (this was part army and part navy) helped enormously in the mistake-making department.

The outcome might have been different if the Brits hadn't sent in antiquated equipment, and had taken their foe a little more seriously and planned accordingly.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2015-11-30, 18:27:35

I'm afraid that's you who is driven by (anti-) "Putinesque" sentiments... :)
Crimeans just opted for a better life. Simply as that.
Short term, you say? What do you mean by it? The next 50 years?
As it looks for now Kiew won't be able to offer to its residents a decent living anytime soon. It was very hard during Yanukovych but now it's much worse...

It's worse for everybody. By short term I mean, for example, from the annexation to now. Back then those who favoured the rigged voting were in Putinesque euphoria, now they are in a drawn-out economic and political crisis. Maybe the memory of the euphoria helps them survive it better, but that's not the solution for everybody, and not even really a solution.



Would you say that Eastern Ukrainian war zone is also blessed by, say, Russian humanitarian aid trucks?

At any rate better than Kiew's bombs and artilleries.

Whereas Russian bombs and artilleries are just fine? Now, it's true that the western powers have caused thorough tensions in Ukraine that prompted this war, so they are not innocent, but this doesn't mean that Russia didn't invade militarily. If it didn't, there would be no war. There would be only frustration because silly Merkel (among others) gave unfounded hopes to Ukraine and then let them down.




Erdogan is merely hiding under the skirt of NATO.
How long would you think that a war with Russia would last?

[snip]

BTW, you are omitting the geopolitical purposes of the Sultan from Ankara... ;)

In the 19th century, Sultan's dominion was steadily declining. All European powers had collectively concluded that Ottoman Empire is doomed, must eventually disappear, and they were all in a race to fill the power vacuum.

I have some respect for the Ottomans. For example, I think they have been the best custodians of the Palestine throughout known history. When Ottomans held Jerusalem, Jews, Muslims, and Christians got along. They did not get along under British rule and are not getting along now under Israeli rule. Perhaps Persian rule over the Palestine, as recorded in the Bible, was as good as Ottoman rule, but every other rule has been worse.

I think it's been generally a good thing that Atatürk managed to establish a real Turkey, instead of becoming a European puppet or colony. At the same time, this has meant trials and tribulations for the Kurds, who thrive better under Iranian rule.


As for the economic sanctions unleashed under US pressures, they are considered even by most Europeans as a damage that will weaken Europe and will only consolidate the Sino-Russian alliance.

The current sanctions are inevitable because Russia's behaviour was openly demanding it. Currently we have no other war in Europe than the one over Ukraine.

The sharp reversal of relationships with Russia is damaging to Europeans themselves because it demonstrates Europe's frivolous stupidity. The earlier policies of appeasement with Russia (namely, Schröder giving the Baltic Sea over to Russia for the gas pipes, Merkel pushing for visa-freedom, ignoring Baltic border disputes in the process, the French signing the agreement to build warships for Russia's Black Sea fleet, etc.) were absolutely horrendous misjudgements of Russia's character. Those who knew Russia better, namely the people of the Baltic countries who warned Europe for all these policies, were not heard, thus demonstrating inequality of Europe - there are those in EU who call the shots despite being blatantly wrong and those who are overstepped even when they are perfectly right. That's a series of dead serious mistakes on Europe's part this century.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-01, 00:49:51
That must be kind of weird Portuguese humor.  :D

Yes it is while you pay Turkey three bilion euros to keep refugees away from you... besides the promiss of letting them being part of European Union.
Don't be such an idiot. Be shamed.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-12-01, 03:45:46
And this thread only goes on to prove that a direct list of very obvious Turkish nonsense cannot be answered by the usual body swerving here!  :D
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-01, 05:50:27
BTW, you are omitting the geopolitical purposes of the Sultan from Ankara...
Does a dog fear its fleas…? :) The leader of Turkey has only as much influence as he is allowed, and he's a fool if he doesn't know it.
(Of course, I think anyone a fool who'd even consider Sharia… So, you're mileage may vary.)
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Barulheira on 2015-12-01, 11:49:13
Proper usage of "your" and "you're" is expected from literate posters.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: krake on 2015-12-01, 14:37:01

Yes it is while you pay Turkey three bilion euros to keep refugees away from you...

Germany can't absorb refugees from all over the world.
It's not only keeping them away from us but from Europe. At least some part of Europe since apparently refugees don't want to live - for instance in Portugal...


besides the promiss of letting them being part of European Union.

They are offered the chance to become part of the EU. That's not the same as an unconditional promise.
It may never happen if they won't meet the demands...


Don't be such an idiot.

How about keeping it civilized?
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-01, 14:40:22


besides the promiss of letting them being part of European Union.

They are offered the chance to become part of the EU. That's not the same as an unconditional promise.
It may never happen if they won't meet the demands...

In a rational world, Turkey would never be part of the EU. To even think of giving such a promise to Turkey makes a mockery of the demands and requirements that have to be met to become a member.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: krake on 2015-12-01, 14:58:21
@ ersi
They who can read are clearly at an advantage. ;)
See my post above.
Turkey has actually no chance to become an EU-member and Erdogan knows it.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Frenzie on 2015-12-01, 17:25:18
Perhaps Persian rule over the Palestine, as recorded in the Bible, was as good as Ottoman rule, but every other rule has been worse.

You mean the rule during which the Temple was destroyed and the Jews were deported to Babylon? As recorded in the Ketuvim around e.g. Lamentations 4:20? Yeah, that was some great stuff. :right:
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-01, 17:51:08

Perhaps Persian rule over the Palestine, as recorded in the Bible, was as good as Ottoman rule, but every other rule has been worse.

You mean the rule during which the Temple was destroyed and the Jews were deported to Babylon? As recorded in the Ketuvim around e.g. Lamentations 4:20? Yeah, that was some great stuff. :right:

That was Babylonians. By Persians I mean emperors like Cyrus (Book of Ezra) and Ahasuerus (Book of Esther).
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2015-12-01, 17:52:08

Turkey has actually no chance to become an EU-member and Erdogan knows it.

...which makes the promise bogus and the EU looks just as bad.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-01, 21:10:51
They are offered the chance to become part of the EU. That's not the same as an unconditional promise.
It may never happen if they won't meet the demands...

For the second time...
How about keeping it civilized?

We usually are, more or less. Just one of those less times, nothing personal. :)
At least some part of Europe since apparently refugees don't want to live - for instance in Portugal...

The language is very difficult...
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-02, 02:15:19
The language is very difficult...
They'd only have to learn one phrase: "Check, please!" To be used with the natives only at restaurants and welfare offices…
I'm sure Arabic is in frequent use in the various black market venues.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-12-02, 04:19:01
Turkey is a mess of a country. Constant doubts on it's so-called democracy  which exists if you agree with the clown who is Presient. Thise journalists who could spend 45 years in a jail is a typical thing. I certainly do not want that country in the EU as that lot are bad and corrupt as hell. Turkey has got away with breaking greek air space repeatedly as standard and surprise, surprise that wonderful leader of democracy, Obama has supported Turkey even though that country does what it does to Greece as standard p-ractice? The plane should not have been shot down for 17 seconds and completely makes my point about their plane shot down by Syrian confirmed. Having been right behind the Turkey loose lot the US President has the sheer gall to tell his dangerous pal Turkey and Russia to deter their argument?! From a country that does wht it damn well likes on the world stage so what right does America have? Turkey is as principled as nutjob land when it comes to principles.

When will we hear from the White House about the ridiculous air space violations on Greece at over 2,000?? If I was Putin, I would also cut turkey's oil supply. Oh wait there is an alternative over the Border in Syria.......
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: OakdaleFTL on 2015-12-02, 04:30:00
…it seems, RJ, that your knowledge of geography is inadequate…

Turkey is not a mess of a country. It is just one -unlike yours- which hasn't relinquished any and every claim to power… And one that -also like yours- has no effect upon world events.

Drink your ImBru, Howie… And stay away from complicated things! :)
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-02, 23:39:32
Drink your ImBru, Howie… And stay away from complicated things!  :)

As you do with your beer... :)
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-12-03, 18:46:35
I watched the newspaper reps at the regular White House news room asking questions. The man at the lectern almost danced around accusations against Turkey from the press people. When one woman reporter held up satellite picture of scores of oil lorries and a chain crossing the border into Turkey from ISIS the White House rep did a dance as usual and scoffed at the picture.  The number of lorries going over into Turkey runs into hundreds.

That country is in a mess and does support that lot over the Syria border known as Turkmen and supports them. Turkey also bombs the Kurds in Syria doing a great job of fighting the ISIS maniacs.  That Turkey shoots down a Russian plane near where that Turkmen support is given and oil slipping in is coincidence?? The White House Rep had to be forced into saying there would no doubt be a few tankers sneaking in well oakdale it is over a thousand. Turkey is corrupt as hell but your President supports Turkey as an ally and member of NATO so that makes the crime okay then?

Now that Russia is submitting an application to the UN will be very interesting on the actual oil truth and Turkey's two-faced stance. Shooting a plane down when it is from a country fighting ISIS is a farce. You neatly ignored my info on that Turkish plane shot down years ago by a Syrian plane and Turkey moaned it was only a short time over the border! Likewise you dance at the large number of air space violations by Turkey amounting to 3-figures. When it comes to unintentional comedians you should take a stand and maybe even pass Trump.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: Belfrager on 2015-12-03, 22:44:22
Likewise you dance at the large number of air space violations by Turkey amounting to 3-figures

You dream with Ottoman rapists rjhowie... probably influences of Lawrence of Arabia... shame on you  :lol:
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-12-04, 10:19:51
Heehee!   :sing: :D
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: rjhowie on 2015-12-11, 22:48:28
Interesting to note that Turkey is refusing to withdraw it's military presence in Iraq and it might go to the UN. When I watch the White House rep answering journalists there it is disgusting the way they do a dance and think Turkey is wonderful and can do no wrong. The Yanks here especially have done a dance on the in your face actions of Turkey and that country's hypocrisy. Turkey claims to be helping the Kurds in Iraq whilst killing them elsewhere but such antics are right up the White House thinking mode. America should be leaning on Turkey.
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2023-05-10, 20:23:06
I forecast that Erdogan will win the elections because he has done so much good for Turkey. From Turks' point of view, Erdogan is absolutely fabulous because he has acted strong on the difficult problems of Finland and Sweden. You see, the Western Nato partners want to partition Turkey and Erdogan is the man to stop it. Moreover, he neutralised the freshest ISIS leader in Syria. And he opened Turkey's first nuclear station (owned by Rosatom). Additionally, he promised everybody free gas for a year if he wins (Turkish home cooking is done with gas stoves). The opposition has nothing comparable to show on their side.

By the way, I do not mean any irony. This is all actually happening in Turkey right now. Also, the public space for election campaigning in Turkey is divided so that roughly half (probably slightly more) of it is available to Erdogan and the rest to everybody else. (If you are wondering, yes, I visited Turkey too last week.)
Title: Re: Turkey hypocrisy
Post by: ersi on 2023-05-31, 11:48:35
I forecast that Erdogan will win the elections because he has done so much good for Turkey.
Congrats, Erdogan. He had three problems to overcome:
- Inflation
- Unemployment
- The earthquake

Promising everybody free gas handily did this. Distributing some deepfakes about the opposition and bribing one opposition party leader may have helped also.