What if I, or anybody, will not substitute the OS with anything else, but be willing to use the device for surfing/using the Net somehow?
Are there ways?
I thought about something like
- using the nb as a router for other devices,
- trying not to download new apps onto it,
- visiting/using only known/already explored sites/services...
What else? If it can be 'go' - what should I NOT do?
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...make sure file extensions are displayed everywhere so you don't run programs believing they are media files or shortcuts, stay behind NAT and/or firewall that only lets...
Who're all those guys?
???
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Hidden file extensions is one attack vector how someone might get you...
Ah! I'm already cautious about that.
Should I consider only the very [last] suffix - or may some "pre"suffixes also matter?
Over time malware itself might stop being compatible with XP and just not run.
So, is it that one can consider being VERY-VERY cautious for the initial x period of time?
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FlA5ANCA.png&hash=94dd04c77fca59d12b4388566c51412e" rel="cached" data-hash="94dd04c77fca59d12b4388566c51412e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/lA5ANCA.png)
Routers running NAT and Firewalls should themselves be secured, which means they shouldn't be XP boxes.
So, the option 1
using the nb as a router for other devices...
goes aside?
::)
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But do you update the OS itself?
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Meh, Windows XP wasn't that great until SP1. SP2 improved on it immensely. SP3 is fine too afaik. It certainly did a fine job on several of my computers.
Yup.
I got one installation of XP Service Pack 1 (typing from it now), and another one with Service Pack 3 updated to June 2011 (I installed it recently).
I've heard nothing but bad things about updating: frequent restarts, unstable drivers added, consumtion of disk space with updates, reverting of customized settings, updates failing due to system having been tweaked.
All this applies to Linuxes too. For example this guy is a loud complainer http://my.opera.com/LorenzoCelsi/blog/2014/01/08/what-i-have-learned-today-while-moving-from-debian-stable-to-testing (If you think of inviting him here, I already did. He apparently is not interested.)
Mind you, my favourite distro is Manjaro, a rolling-release distro. This means that once installed and updated, it becomes versionless: Everything is absolutely the latest and greatest, which means everything might break. I have had no issues with this so far, but maybe I luckily have the same hardware that the distro team is testing on and aiming for. This may change any day. For now I am mildly excited about this and having fun, but of course I will be frustrated when things go wrong and I need it for actual work...
All this applies to Linuxes too.
More so, I'd say. You need to update the base system to install new programs after a while. You might counter that it's the same for XP, but I believe XP SP2 will do for most software and that's nearly 10 years old. Some people are angry at Ubuntu for creating Deb-based packages which include their own libraries, but I believe that might just be exactly what's needed for the Linux desktop to truly rival Windows.
Btw, early '90s themes are much prettier than the current crop of transparent or flat junk. :P
You need to update the base system to install new programs after a while.
In what way you need to update your base system? AFAIK, it's possible to keep various versions of same stuff around to satisfy all the weird dependencies, e.g. multiple kernels, Qt4 and Qt5 side by side, etc. It's probably not easy, but surely it's not any easier in Windows either.
Some people are angry at Ubuntu for creating Deb-based packages which include their own libraries, but I believe that might just be exactly what's needed for the Linux desktop to truly rival Windows.
Yes. People value convenience. To update packages centrally is convenient. Angry people should choose a less convenient distro, such as Gentoo or Arch.
Btw, early '90s themes are much prettier than the current crop of transparent or flat junk. :P
You mean on Linux or on Windows? Or on both? I hope you don't mean the Openbox desktop image I posted in the other thread :S Lxterminal is transparent there, but that's just about it. Xterm has a freaky white background and tiny font by default on Manjaro (the only distro that does it this way, AFAIK) but I fixed it to normal already.
For me XP's default theme always was a considerable inconvenience, because of the heavy effects. I always reverted to 2000-ish look on it to speed things up at work. Vista's improvements made things only worse. On Linux, I like the current Mint's and Manjaro's default theming a lot, but I still switch off Cinnamon's effects.
In what way you need to update your base system? AFAIK, it's possible to keep various versions of same stuff around to satisfy all the weird dependencies, e.g. multiple kernels, Qt4 and Qt5 side by side, etc. It's probably not easy, but surely it's not any easier in Windows either.
Debian 3.1 (2005) is virtually useless today. Windows XP SP2 (2004) can still run most things you throw at it.
You mean on Linux or on Windows? Or on both? I hope you don't mean the Openbox desktop image I posted in the other thread :S
No, I was responding to your link. Lorenzo Celsi said, "Time to remove all the old stuff that looks like early '90s."
For me XP's default theme always was a considerable inconvenience, because of the heavy effects. I always reverted to 2000-ish look on it to speed things up at work. Vista's improvements made things only worse.
My point exactly.
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In what way you need to update your base system? AFAIK, it's possible to keep various versions of same stuff around to satisfy all the weird dependencies, e.g. multiple kernels, Qt4 and Qt5 side by side, etc. It's probably not easy, but surely it's not any easier in Windows either.
So far I've had no problems on my Windows with applications' upgrades. They just upgrade!..::)
:rolleyes:
In what way you need to update your base system? AFAIK, it's possible to keep various versions of same stuff around to satisfy all the weird dependencies, e.g. multiple kernels, Qt4 and Qt5 side by side, etc. It's probably not easy, but surely it's not any easier in Windows either.
So far I've had no problems on my Windows with applications' upgrades. They just upgrade!..::)
:rolleyes:
I wasn't talking (only) about applications, but more like about dependencies, how applications cooperate or conflict with each other or interact with the base, kernel, and libraries.
Anyway, looks like now that I have customised my Manjaro on Packard Bell Intel Atom netbook pretty far, I will need to reinstall it http://forum.manjaro.org/index.php?topic=7319
You're not going past XP on those specs. Any light weight linux disro will make for a nice quick net machine. You can surf the net off the liveCD. IIRC you can mount c: and save data too. Best bet is to dual boot. I would put a vanilla copy of XP and strip it bare with your pick linux distribution beside it. Default grub to linux and use XP for whatever compatible software you wanna keep. I'd also look into a ram upgrade. I just doubled a friends netbook with similar specs to 2gb for $33usd. It's running Vista beside whichever Xubuntu or Ubuntu-ish distro I put on it.
to 2gb
Gramme-bits?
Any light weight linux disro will make for a nice quick net machine. You can surf the net off the liveCD.
So you say, I could keep both?
Can I keep the XP?
Can I keep the XP?
Yes, if you decide you like some Linux distro or other you can shrink the Windows partition (back up your data first just in case!) and devote e.g. half your space to Linux.
So you say, I could keep both?
Can I keep the XP?
Yes, you can have many systems side by side, but it takes solid practice to learn partitioning.
First things first:
- Learn to create a bootable USB stick
- Change the boot sequence in BIOS
- Boot the stick on your nettop, connect to internet, mount drives, browse the net and your files
- Do the booting with different Linuxes at least three times, only then study cautiously the partition tool http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/gparted.html
My experience (IMO good for novices):
Start with a computer with whichever Windows installation you like.
1. Try a Ubuntu live CD. It works. I like it. Next.
2. Shrink the Windows partition(s) in order to reserve empty space on the HD. (Follow the instructions carefully.)
3. Install Ubuntu on that empty space. (Follow the instructions carefully... most of the repartitioning is done automatically.)
You end up with a dual boot computer, with options for Linux (default) and Windows.
(After that, Windows may complain on partition resizing, but just let it fix it automatically for you.)
Nowadays, I have three OS options on boot (Windows* 7, Debian/Linux and PC-BSD/FreeBSD), all of them fully functional, on a home notebook with 2GB RAM.
* Let me add that I (very close to) never need to use Windows. :)
Let me add that I (very close to) never need to use Windows.
In the rare case that I do actually
need to use Windows software, Wine usually does an extremely good job. Still, I find it convenient to keep a Windows 7 installation around just in case. I already paid the money for it anyway…
A tricky part is I have a "lifetime warranty" for my NP, so... They say I'll lose it if the servicemen don't find Windows as - the? - op.system.
My experience (IMO good for novices):
Start with a computer with whichever Windows installation you like.
1. Try a Ubuntu live CD. It works...
I have no CD drives and the C and D disks are not large and are substantially consumed...
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FlA5ANCA.png&hash=94dd04c77fca59d12b4388566c51412e" rel="cached" data-hash="94dd04c77fca59d12b4388566c51412e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/lA5ANCA.png)
I have no CD drives
That is why I linked to a tool to use LiveCDs on a USB drive. ;)
Still, I find it convenient to keep a Windows 7 installation around just in case. I already paid the money for it anyway…
+1
A tricky part is I have a "lifetime warranty" for my NP,
Lifetime warranty for the hardware? ???
Yup.
Though I feel like better not...
I've never heard of a lifetime warranty on hardware?
Replacement of the main board would exceed the cost of a newer machine. So just make sure that's the problem... And that's why that doesn't make sense.
I've never heard of a lifetime warranty on hardware?
It was a paid thing.
I have a separate "terms" and a "club card". :faint:
I've never heard of a lifetime warranty on hardware?
It was a paid thing.
I have a separate "terms" and a "club card". :faint:
Is it your lifetime or the netbook's lifetime? :)
Seriously, the warranty makes no sense. It's only understandable if there was no way to make the purchase without the unnecessary warranty.
The fact remains that Windows doesn't have a very long life cycle on such a machine and is doomed to be replaced. You can make it dual-boot to keep Windows for sentimental or whatever reasons, but this means you have to be more careful when installing Linux.
Is it your lifetime or the netbook's lifetime?
Very funny...
Have no idea.;)
You can make it dual-boot to keep Windows for sentimental or whatever reasons, but this means you have to be more careful when installing Linux.
Yeah, I bet on it.
Or I seem to be going to eventually dump the "warranty".
A lifetime warrantee on a computer doesn't mean much simply because of the upgrade cycle.
Right now, my old laptop is near the end of its life. Windows XP is nearly at the end of its cycle, and while it looks as though the old machine could take Windows 8 it would mean getting a bigger hard-drive at a minimum, and it would be struggling to keep up with now limited RAM (when I got the machine 2 gigabytes was almost unimaginable, now it's pathetically tiny). I have to really think about it before spending money trying to update the old machine.
I don't think I would spend much on extended warrantees for that reason. Anything much over a couple of years, you're probably looking at replacing the machine anyway.
Right now, my old laptop is near the end of its life. Windows XP is nearly at the end of its cycle, and while it looks as though the old machine could take Windows 8 it would mean getting a bigger hard-drive at a minimum, and it would be struggling to keep up with now limited RAM (when I got the machine 2 gigabytes was almost unimaginable, now it's pathetically tiny). I have to really think about it before spending money trying to update the old machine.
Upgrading a machine for money is conceivable, if you really need additional hardware. With 2GB of RAM, this machine should run any kind of Linux comfortably, experiencing glitches only with the heaviest desktops, such as KDE with all the flashy effects.
So, if you only need to replace the software, it can be done free of charge. Which is how I usually do it. 2GB may seem minimum RAM these days, but I have made machines with below 1GB run smooth with up-to-date set of programs, Firefox, Libreoffice, multimedia players, etc.
I seem to have not more than 1 GB RAM, remember?
It seems that I'd like to start a separate topic on ways to boost the RAM.
I seem to have not more than 1 GB RAM, remember?
It seems that I'd like to start a separate topic on ways to boost the RAM.
Yes, I remember. And my netbook is the same, remember? I put Manjaro Linux Openbox on it. Runs like a rabbit and flies like a hawk. I see no need to add RAM.
My netbook with 1GB RAM runs Xubuntu perfectly fine. But I only do light browsing and text editing on it.
My netbook with 1GB RAM runs Xubuntu perfectly fine. But I only do light browsing and text editing on it.
About half of the time I boot to shell, without starting X. That's how I do light stuff. However, I really mean rabbit and hawk also with X running: Libreoffice does word processing, Vlc does HD videos, Firefox does Youtube, etc. No hiccups, no slowdown. I'm sure it's the same on your machine too.
Fine, I meant light in the sense of only opening a dozen pages or so in my browser, opening merely a few PDF documents, and probably only one LibreOffice writer instance. :P That'll leave a fair bit of RAM to spare even on 64-bit. (I think it feels more responsive in 64-bit. Sue me.)
On TTY 1GB is virtually limitless. But I'm not the biggest fan of Vim or Nano, although they'll certainly do the trick. And are there any spreadsheet applications similar to e.g. Works 2.0 (http://thislamp.com/posts/2009/10/13/so-long-ms-works-you-were-great-in-88.html)* which I used to use back in DOS 4?
The primary difference is that on my desktop computer, I don't (or rarely) have to worry about ever closing anything. If I stop one activity, I switch to a different workspace and leave it open. On 1GB RAM it's more likely that you'll have to close your applications so you can open others without having to worry.
Vlc does HD videos, Firefox does Youtube, etc. No hiccups, no slowdown. I'm sure it's the same on your machine too.
It can play regular video; I have no idea if it can play full HD. It's kind of a moot question considering the resolution of the screen. I expect it'll cope in MPlayer, fail in Flash, and it may or may not be able to do so in VLC.
* Mind you, it also did text processing and database stuff.
That'll leave a fair bit of RAM to spare even on 64-bit. (I think it feels more responsive in 64-bit. Sue me.)
I'm not savvy enough (yet) to know what's the big deal between them. When I install the latest and greatest, I naturally install 64-bit. 32-bit is for single-core weaker processors, I figure. Nobody sues me. Then again, I am not doing this for a living or as a profession, and neither does any of my friends. I am the best hacker in my circle of acquaintances. Which means I'm just an advanced dumbuser...
On TTY 1GB is virtually limitless. But I'm not the biggest fan of Vim or Nano, although they'll certainly do the trick. And are there any spreadsheet applications similar to e.g. Works 2.0 (http://thislamp.com/posts/2009/10/13/so-long-ms-works-you-were-great-in-88.html)* which I used to use back in DOS 4?
Pure awesomeness.
I googled a bit and found this http://cafeninja.blogspot.com/2010/06/sc-command-line-spreadsheet.html For doc-viewing in terminals there's Antiword.
Vlc does HD videos, Firefox does Youtube, etc. No hiccups, no slowdown. I'm sure it's the same on your machine too.
It can play regular video; I have no idea if it can play full HD. It's kind of a moot question considering the resolution of the screen. I expect it'll cope in MPlayer, fail in Flash, and it may or may not be able to do so in VLC.
I meant HD as Youtube labels it. This is, yes, bigger than the screen, but it plays in VLC. Plus everything else I mentioned (and you mention) can run in parallel. Still no hiccups, no slowdown.
I haven't installed Flash on this netbook. Good riddance, I think.
Frans, I'm gonna report you to The Administration as being not exactly on topic.:P
I googled a bit and found this http://cafeninja.blogspot.com/2010/06/sc-command-line-spreadsheet.html (http://cafeninja.blogspot.com/2010/06/sc-command-line-spreadsheet.html) For doc-viewing in terminals there's Antiword.
Looks interesting. Unfortunately it only has its own format. Still, something to keep in mind. For a text processing software I meant more something that can read and write Open Document Format, but with an interface that's something of a crossbreed Wordperfect 5.1 and Works 2.
I meant HD as Youtube labels it. This is, yes, bigger than the screen, but it plays in VLC. Plus everything else I mentioned (and you mention) can run in parallel. Still no hiccups, no slowdown.
I haven't installed Flash on this netbook. Good riddance, I think.
All things considered YouTube 720p is fairly low quality. I know it can cope with it in Windows Flash, I don't think it can in Linux Flash, and in HTML5 I imagine it should be able to do the trick. I take my netbook along for Serious Business™. My phone will do just fine if I want to watch a vid or two.
Frans, I'm gonna report you to The Administration as being not exactly on topic.:P
It's the answer to what can you realistically expect to be able to do on your netbook. ;)
About running heavy stuff, I guess I'm also gonna have to set a topic. Later...
I take my netbook along for Serious Business™.
Really? Therefore attempts to edit doc and xls files in command line? For Serious Business™ kind of work, I find mouse operations indispensable.
Maybe my view stems from the fact that I made proper closer acquaintance with computers only in the end of 90's. To me graphical desktops and mouses are the norm when using a computer for some other purpose than computer itself. Command line is mostly to fix the computer itself and tweak stuff inside it, not so much for third-party purposes. Well, web-browsing, viewing and typing (text input) obviously work, but bigger text operations don't look good...
Really? Therefore attempts to edit doc and xls files in command line?
Um, no? That's just a topic you brought up. :)
For Serious Business™ kind of work, I find mouse operations indispensable.
However, I most definitely used a mouse in MS Works 2, and just about all DOS programs really. You can install gpm for a very similar effect in Linux. In DOS it was named MOUSE.EXE.
Maybe my view stems from the fact that I made proper closer acquaintance with computers only in the end of 90's. To me graphical desktops and mouses are the norm when using a computer for some other purpose than computer itself.
The only truly significant advantage is Alt+Tab and the ability to open multiple applications next to each other, and actually MS Works 2 and various other applications already partially implemented such advantages in the form of MDI. Unfortunately I wasn't aware of
tmux or screen at the time, plus they probably wouldn't have worked on DOS anyway. Given the RAM constraints of the day, it may not have made much of a difference.
One thing I can tell you: Windows 3 actually came with a really, really good integrated tutorial for n00bs (i.e. me). I haven't been able to find something that good in any Windows since.
For Serious Business™ kind of work, I find mouse operations indispensable.
However, I most definitely used a mouse in MS Works 2, and just about all DOS programs really. You can install gpm for a very similar effect in Linux. In DOS it was named MOUSE.EXE.
So mouse can work without X? Amazing! I didn't know this. Does gpm work with touchpads too? (because we obviously have touchpads on netbooks) Did the DOS mouse enable dragging text around like in a real word processor?
One thing I can tell you: Windows 3 actually came with a really, really good integrated tutorial for n00bs (i.e. me). I haven't been able to find something that good in any Windows since.
Not even the animated tour in XP?
So mouse can work without X? Amazing! I didn't know this. Does gpm work with touchpads too? (because we obviously have touchpads on netbooks) Did the DOS mouse enable dragging text around like in a real word processor?
I don't recall, but I think Ctrl + X followed by Ctrl + V tends to be more reliable. I tend to navigate around text primarily with Ctrl + arrow keys, Home, End, and Page Up/Down. You'd think such habits stem from an earlier era, but I actually didn't find out about Ctrl + left/right arrow until about ten years ago. If I want to move quickly to another part of the document I tend to use F5 so I can quickly switch to a different heading. Headings I create with Ctrl + 1-4. LibreOffice is so much more efficient than MS Office at just about everything but track changes.
A touchpad is simply a pointing device. I see no reason it wouldn't work.
Not even the animated tour in XP?
Hm, perhaps my memory is simply playing tricks on me.
Everybody knows that keyboard shortcuts are absolutely fabulous, but I was specifically asking about mouse. Mouse is unbeatable for furious selection and dragging movements in word processors and file managers.
And here's to refresh your memory http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae0gkaq-BOk
Guys,
XP after XP
Would you mind?
Guys, XP after XP
Would you mind?
Hey, I just posted a video about XP. And I just got an idea. I'll try to install XP sounds in Cinnamon. That's gonna be funny.
Mouse is unbeatable for furious selection and dragging movements in word processors and file managers.
For selection it can be useful, but I truly do usually prefer Ctrl + Shift + arrows or Shift + Home/End. For dragging, or more specifically dropping, I think doing so with text is usually a recipe for disaster. My opinion differs for spreadsheets and file management. Call it a personal idiosyncrasy if you will.
And here's to refresh your memory http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae0gkaq-BOk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae0gkaq-BOk)
Yeah, there's a reason I hate videos when a text would do just fine.
For dragging, or more specifically dropping, I think doing so with text is usually a recipe for disaster. My opinion differs for spreadsheets and file management. Call it a personal idiosyncrasy if you will.
Agreed on spreadsheets. I never found mouse much useful in spreadsheets, except for pointing (i.e. selecting a cell to work on).
In file managers, I often Ctrl+A (to select all) and drag&drop to another window. Similar gestures to move text around in word processors. I never disastered. I am of course clipboard-conscious too, aware of chances of loss. I have a clipboard recorder running, and keep in mind undo.
Btw, did you know it's possible to select and drag text around in text areas in Opera? Probably in all browsers these days, but I discovered it first in Opera.
And here's to refresh your memory http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae0gkaq-BOk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae0gkaq-BOk)
Yeah, there's a reason I hate videos when a text would do just fine.
I like the music :sing:
One thing I can tell you: Windows 3 actually came with a really, really good integrated tutorial for n00bs (i.e. me). I haven't been able to find something that good in any Windows since.
+1
I have a clipboard recorder running, and keep in mind undo.
Well sure, not disaster disaster. I just think it's easier to navigate the cursor precisely where I want it—possibly with the mouse—and
then paste, rather than trying to integrate it all in one. In MS Word it just goes scrolling the page way too easily, not to mention somehow way too fast. Perhaps it's better in LibreOffice.
Btw, did you know it's possible to select and drag text around in text areas in Opera? Probably in all browsers these days, but I discovered it first in Opera.
Huh, I think that's new.
Btw, did you know it's possible to select and drag text around in text areas in Opera? Probably in all browsers these days, but I discovered it first in Opera.
Huh, I think that's new.
No, it's old. It's just not the way you are used to do it http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=917631
I like this feature I discovered in Linux over a decade ago: Drag a bunch of files from a file manager to email composer. The result is list of filenames. Worked from Nautilus to Evolution and Opera.
Actually it does show a text cursor for me. But I'm somewhat sure that in the past (pre-2011), it wouldn't drag at all and start a new selection instead.
Edit: hm, I guess it's the cursor that's new. At least in Opera 10.11 it works, but without a clear indicator. Actually I wonder if that clear indicator might be a relatively recent (i.e. post mid to late-'90s) development, which has led me to incorrectly think the whole process is disaster-prone, while it hasn't been in years.
Sorry, I remembered the drag-to-email-body procedure too boldly. It requires proper selection and copy in the file manager, then paste in the email composer, and you will get a list. I must have thought intensely it would be cool if such a function worked merely by dragging, so intensely that I imagined it's already implemented.
For me it always seemed that mouse is importantly for drag&drop, whereas you think it's prone to disaster. Did you dislike Opera's mouse gestures too? I of course liked them a lot! (until they added the utterly unnecessary flashing instructions)
Actually you misunderstood me earlier. I meant I do like to use the mouse in spreadsheets and file management. It's very specifically text editing where I don't like it.
I was wildly enthusiastic about mouse gestures, right up until the point I discovered flip back and flip forward. I started using them less and less, and can't recall the last time I used them.
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In the earlier DOS era, the shortcut for Paste was Shift-Insert. I can't, from the top of my head, tell the shortcut for Copy, because I never used text editors in that time.
True, I meant cut and paste more than any specific key binding, except that dragging text around is technically also cut and paste (but perhaps less so than right click, cut followed by right click, paste). Ctrl+Shift+C/V is also quite important in several contexts.
Agreed. An illustrated page of text allows me to read the instructions at the speed I am comfortable with. Videos need a good narrator and director, to keep viewers engaged, not bored, and not missing key points while overwhelmed with new information.
Yep, or what if you just don't remember that Alt+Tab was the keyboard shortcut for that neat switching functionality? Try to find
that in a 10-minute video.
I was wildly enthusiastic about mouse gestures, right up until the point I discovered flip back and flip forward. I started using them less and less, and can't recall the last time I used them.
Yes, those are fabulous. In addition to these, I still use up-directory and fast-forward gestures on touchpad.
Agreed. An illustrated page of text allows me to read the instructions at the speed I am comfortable with. Videos need a good narrator and director, to keep viewers engaged, not bored, and not missing key points while overwhelmed with new information.
Yep, or what if you just don't remember that Alt+Tab was the keyboard shortcut for that neat switching functionality? Try to find that in a 10-minute video.
Hey, guys! Some people grew up with that video and became decent people. In fact, the caption below the video that I linked to says so.
To me the video is not just about its technically informative content, but also about the background music, the voice of the narrator, the tints and forms - the design, the esthetic experience. Really good computers don't make only geeks happy, but also children and ladies.
In the earlier DOS era, the shortcut for Paste was Shift-Insert.
Copy: Ctrl+Insert
Cut: Shift+Delete
Paste: Shift+Insert
They still work here!
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I had to register here after seeing Vista/7 referred to as Windows 6.x. I thought I was the only one who did that! Found my way here via My Opera, where I was a rare poster.
I pretty much agree with what j7n's suggested. I still don't know why Microsoft makes hiding file extensions the default. That's always one of the first things I change when installing Windows.
I'm also an XP user, and haven't made any plans to switch at this time, although I may do so. But even if Microsoft does discontinue support in April (and it wouldn't surprise me if they extend it - they extended 98's support in 2004 when it had similar marketshare to what XP does now), I don't expect to suddenly go online on April 9th and get deluged with malware. For one, because things don't change that quickly. I've used Windows without patching it for several months at a time without issue, and without always having anti-virus or a software firewall running, and it hasn't led to anything nefarious. I also used Firefox 3.6 as a secondary browser (to Opera, of course) until just a few months ago, with no ill effects despite not having any security updates for a few years. I did get infected with something a few years before 3.6 was discontinued - some sort of pop-up spam item - and the anti-virus was running, and it didn't even detect it. IIRC, I'd been browsing on shadier sites than usual, and perhaps I accidentally clicked an ad. But the point being, how you use the computer is much more important than always having a full security software suite and the latest updates. If you know what kind of stuff is generally shady and prone to viruses/worms/etc., and avoid it, you'll get very few viruses. If you trust everything on the Internet, click on all sorts of sleazy ads, go to sites that promise things that are too good to be true, and download files from shady sites, you can have all the updates and the best security software in the world and you'll still get overrun. Windows 6.x changes like ASLR may reduce the damage, but the user's actions are still going to be the biggest factor.
Myself, if Microsoft does discontinue XP support in April, I'll probably keep using it for awhile. Eventually, I may switch to 7, since there are a slowly-increasing number of programs that require Windows 6.x, and 7 doesn't suck nearly as much as Vista did in 2007 when I last used it instead of XP as a main OS. Or I may switch to Linux, but if I do that, I'll still have to keep XP around, since I have a lot of Windows software. But if you aren't prone to getting viruses now, I don't think you need to panic about switching to something else before April.
I had to register here after seeing Vista/7 referred to as Windows 6.x. I thought I was the only one who did that! Found my way here via My Opera, where I was a rare poster.
It self-reports as Windows NT 6.1, does it not? :) I hear Windows 8 calls itself Windows NT 6.2, and 8.1 goes with NT 6.3.
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Odd, you'd think Microsoft would build something like that into their frameworks.
.
I think XP Notepad worked on Windows 2000. :)
Introducing - Unofficial Windows XP SP4 (http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/171171-introducing-unofficial-windows-xp-sp4/)
Looks like I used "unofficial SP4" years ago. (I.e. slipstreamed the latest updates, IE8, and such.)
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It's the 18th of April. Do you think my system will play me a funebrial music at the moment of :rip:?
It will if you make it. :P
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THE POPULAR Microsoft operating system that refuses to die, Windows XP, has seen a rise in popularity for the second month running.
...Microsoft, which has been trying every trick in the book to lure or scare users away from Windows XP, is going to be disappointed that once again attention has been drawn away from Windows 8, which continues to underperform, despite gaining slightly, stepping out of the shadow of Vista at 0.68 percent market share.
Cat, what did they mean about the IE?
Meanwhile, in the web browser market, Microsoft's Internet Explorer continues to be top dog with 58.19 percent of the market across all versions, a slight dip from last month that reflected...
???
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(IE must be always "used" anyway as long as Windows is running, huh?;))
A new one there: (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/2323717/microsoft-should-just-rename-windows-xp-as-windows-9)
Scare tactics won't make Windows XP users upgrade
;)
[by Madeline Bennett (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/flame_author/2323717/microsoft-should-just-rename-windows-xp-as-windows-9)]http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/2323717/microsoft-should-just-rename-windows-xp-as-windows-9
.
(IE must be always "used" anyway as long as Windows is running, huh?;))
I have heard that some stats count IE this way: Whoever is on Windows, also qualifies as an IE user.
[offtopic]YES - you really USE IE ("subconsciously":lol:): Windows 1) has it as integral part and 2) uses it now and then to fetch files or something, IDK.[/offtopic]
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Morning! :coffee:
Windows 98, which cannot be connected to easily by Network Neighborhood
You mean with newer versions of Windows? As far as I recall things have been fine since Windows 3.11 (for Workgroups).
Maybe they use a Microsoft compiler or something.
I'm pretty sure that's why Firefox dropped support for Windows 2000 a while ago: a switch from an older to a newer Microsoft compiler.
My MSE antivirus has started to show 'yellow' (or is it orange?). Itself it works as expected, but it's stopped being green when it thinks everything alright. Maybe it doesn't?;)
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Why!
Antivirus was one of the main resource hogs on the netbook I have been talking about in this thread. The other was Skype that was made to launch at startup. The third was system updates. These and some more made the entire system unmanageable. Getting the system up and logging in took half an hour (literally) and, once logged in and able to launch programs, I was unable to uninstall the hogs and cloggers, so I simply gave up and replaced Win7 Starter, that was way too much for the machine, with Manjaro Openbox that runs like blitzkrieg on 1GB RAM.
The only reason to hold on to XP can be some special program that doesn't run on any other system. Maybe Josh can find some other excuse too, but I doubt it's a good excuse.
Can't you remember in a movies thread on MyOpera, I reported I'd watched a Tinker Bell?:) What's the pertinence? :lol: I can tink, you know:happy:
:lol: I can tink, you know:happy:
Poor excuse. If you have nothing to lose on the netbook, and you have another machine where to create bootable USB sticks, you should be practising already. This is how you will make your netbook last another decade.
It's the 18th of April.
Maybe it was the 8th.
At least I'm having a red MSE now... Already.
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Maybe it was the 8th.
Nah, I wasn't blind.
The system notification says "18".
It's the 9th of April, 2014.
I'm on XP.
Just most recently I got an icon for updates: now there are 3 of them loading:) (Namely, 1) some IE security stuff, 2) a malware deletion tool (KB890830)...
Here's a Linux specifically made for netbooks: Netrunner Arch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AILYKTcBX1Y
The desktop on Netrunner is KDE, which may be too much for system resources. KDE certainly was too much when I tried Mageia for my netbook (1GB RAM, 250GB HDD, Intel Atom). However, Netrunner has undergone some specific fine-tuning, so it should be worth a look.
On my netbook, Manjaro Openbox (installed at version 0.8.8 when it was it its most minimalistic - there was not even a webbrowser included; perfect for me, even though I still had to uninstall Synapse the files-and-programs search-and-launch thingie) has proven so fantastic that I am not considering anything else for at least a year or so.
Here's a Linux specifically made for netbooks: Netrunner Arch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AILYKTcBX1Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AILYKTcBX1Y)
Here: https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=96.0
I recently installed Debian Wheezy with LXDE on a really small netbook. 77MB RAM used after login. Not bad at all.
Here: https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=96.0 (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=96.0)
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In Fx it gets stuck at 80% or so.
In Chromium it works and doesn't seem to use all that much CPU.
Oddly, game over (or rather I just stopped caring about the game) seemed to be essentially a victory.
I do love the evil Clippy. If I were bored I'd be tempted to strip out all of the game code except for the evil Clippy destroying the city in the background.
https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=123.0
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I'm planning to use the current OS for at least two month. Regarding they've promised to keep MSE running, how long will it be to expect trouble?
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???
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Who's Penguin?
I guess he means a hardware firewall for your XP netbook, a little machine running Linux serving as a firewall through which you connect to the internet. I had computers set up this way at one place for while. But since you never installed and configured OS's, just forget about it.
I WANT THAT!..:wait:
But since you never installed and configured OS's, just forget about it.
What?
Will it be available only with installing/reinstalling the OS????
If you have a router, you already do. If you don't, I recommend something that runs or can run TomatoUSB.
A separate hardware firewall only makes sense if you are not behind a router, as Frenzie says. Most people nowadays are, so j7n's point may be moot.
However, the way I understood it, he really meant a separate hardware firewall, i.e. you have another computer with Linux on it, connected to internet, and when you launch your XP netbook, you connect the netbook to the Linux machine to get internet for the netbook. Old clumsy expensive complicated immobile solution, but unbeatable in terms of security when you know how to set it up.
. you have another computer with Linux on it, connected to internet, […]. Old clumsy expensive complicated immobile solution, but unbeatable in terms of security when you know how to set it up.
That's exactly why I recommend TomatoUSB: it
is another computer running Linux. It just uses a lot less electricity. If you know what you're doing and feel the need, you can pull in e.g. relevant Debian packages through Optware (http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/HomePage), you can manually set up iptables however you want, etc. However, the TomatoUSB web interface is highly capable and user-friendly, so there's no need to do so. I've never had such an easy time setting things up.
Netbook is a mobile gadget. Does TomatoUSB also go wherever you go?
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Netbook is a mobile gadget. Does TomatoUSB also go wherever you go?
I guess it could but I don't see why you would… With TomatoUSB you can set up things like port forwarding and port knocking so you can remotely access your stuff, you can easily set up a VPN if you want, etc. I run R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(programming_language)) through SSH because my desktop is somehow quite a bit more than 10 times faster at it.* But on my netbook everything's pretty much locked down.
* I would've expected it to be no more than 4-5 times as fast. It only uses one core, after all.
I'm getting lost in the open source embedded OS. There are quite few of them: DD-WRT, OpenWRT, Tomato, pfsense.
Unless any of them changed recently, none have a more user-friendly, yet full-featured interface than Tomato(USB). Go for DD-WRT if you want all of the nitty-gritty.
:doh:
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Netbook is a mobile gadget. Does TomatoUSB also go wherever you go?
I guess it could but I don't see why you would… With TomatoUSB you can... remotely access your stuff, you can easily set up a VPN if you want, .... through SSH
I haven't done VPN and SSH. Are they both remote access? From what I have understood, remote access means you have a full-featured machine running at home, connected to the home internet, and you have a mobile gadget, connected to some other internet elsewhere, and with the gadget you log into the full-featured machine to make it run tasks for you, right? If so, then this is a luxury beyond reach for me. I don't have home internet connection.
Security through obscurity. I used this authetification method long before I learned how it's called. Good stuff.
A simple setup can be found here (http://dotancohen.com/howto/portknocking.html). A more sophisticated method is described here (http://omegapumpkin.blogspot.be/2012/07/port-knocking-with-iptables-tomato.html).
From what I have understood, remote access means you have a full-featured machine running at home, connected to the home internet, and you have a mobile gadget, connected to some other internet elsewhere, and with the gadget you log into the full-featured machine to make it run tasks for you, right?
Correct. If I leave my desktop* on, I can run computationally intense tasks on it significantly faster than on the netbook itself. This use case is rare, but in any case there's a big difference between waiting seconds for results and waiting minutes.
* Which I built in '07. It's holding up really well.
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I've never used a VPN in order to conserve resources. I understand it is like connecting to a remote closed network, and automatically being able to access whatever is there on that network without additional authentification (like network printers).
I haven't actually used the built-in OpenVPN capabilities; I just mean it looks easy to set up. There might be some caveats.
:faint:
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Yesterday night I spent at an acquaintance trying to figure out why she can't get connected to the internet. The cables were connected. The corner icon showed internet available no problem, but browsers and ping didn't work. In the end it turned out I had to delete a DNS address in the internet options and it was solved. But this took six hours for me, this is how incompetent I am. Anyway, the time was mostly well spent having tea and snacks and backing up her files, as the computer is meant to be replaced anyway.
It's a box bought at the worst kind of time. There's a weird number, like 3/4 GB RAM. There's XP on it and it's screaming now that Microsoft Essentials is not working anymore and the OS needs to be updated. That's painfully confusing for the lady. Anyway, when she gets the new computer, I will lay claim on the old one and see what would run well on it.
MSE is promised to run till next summer (2015).
:right:?
Microsoft promises don't matter. Now they dropped support for W8.1 too http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsoft-windows/microsoft-confirms-its-dropping-windows-81-support-240407
Well -- they want users to install some update - right? That's it.
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Wow.
My comp just started hanging in a way that I constantly reboot it by plugging in/out.
Sounds exactly like the kind of machine on which I would replace the system.
Thank you. I'll be considering that.
Till then I'll try to locate the culprit. It can either be the MSE itself or...
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My first step in troubleshooting this problem would be cleaning the system from dust and visual inspection for fans that are not spinning, and bulging or blown capacitors, especially around the CPU and in the power supply.
???
Pretend I'm an idiot, :).
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Thank you for the pics. My nettop is on warranty still though...
By the by, there is no smell yet. It smelled once - when the accumulator broke.
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1. It feels ok now, though it happened heavily from and immediately after the Hour X (MSE started to exhale red flags, the OS/Microsoft started to steadily notify me "Can't you hear the thunder - you better run, you better take cover!"). Not everything froze -- the active content was acting - but I'd lost the controls: either the cursor wasn't appearing or it did but couldn't interact with any elements -- or at least such an interaction seemed unbearably infinite/long, including "Start" and "shut up" actions. Upon rebooting (I have a pw activated), the pw was usually allowed to fill in, but then 50-50 the system wouldn't start anyway. NB, at that time I tried to (and had been up to the Hour X) watch/download some movies - with Opera (11.63). Maybe it added something. After a reboot, then starting that movie activity, the system froze as described above in about 5-10mins -- even upon already watching a movie in WMP. It lasted for a bunch of times, then I spit and proceeded to listening to a radiostream -- which went ok, since when I haven't experienced those troubles yet.
2. The fan was already stall/heating a year ago: I'm awaiting the moment to give the comp in for repairs. Since then. Though through the winter and up to now the fan luckily isn't sounding (or overheating); however, I DON'T look forward to the summer, so I'm planning a "plan B" to still give the comp over.
3. What exactly is that "Autorun" you're referring to? Папка "Автозагрузка" (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=505402002904726)?
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...or too many incompatible or malicious programs autostarting. Testing the memory and hard drive isn't difficult at all, and would eliminate those as the source of the problem.
How?
To temporarily disable a program remove the check mark next to it. To remove it completely...
Where to find that "Sysinternals Autoruns"?
(I guess it might not be the folder I showed you, huh?)
Right now I'm trying to "get away" with that same movie activity. The "open/download" dialogue hung a bit, though proceeded, and the file is loading now...
+ I've got the file, and it's up and running...
.
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j7n, your suggested procedures for fixing Josh's nettop issues are perfectly sensible. However, only a sensible person can carry them out with success. Considering Josh's manners of going about his computers, Linux is the better choice for him. Linux would teach him to keep user tasks and admin tasks separate and rein in some of his recklessness.
Help your friends and family get off Windows XP (http://blogs.windows.com/windows/b/windowsexperience/archive/2014/02/06/help-your-friends-and-family-get-off-windows-xp.aspx?pi5067=2)
Very funny, help them to move over to a far worse version of Windows... Thanks for the suggestion, MS. I am actively helping people move over from XP, and this means move away from Windows altogether.
@kardon
Those two are my favourite XP background images too. And I absolutely love this spiced-up version of the iconic background:
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-kHHciL73PyQ%2FT-TQpaPqRpI%2FAAAAAAAAGl4%2FRTuHijM9Gas%2Fs1600%2FXP_Cow.jpg&hash=539c0cf86b064f1474b2d668607c61ca" rel="cached" data-hash="539c0cf86b064f1474b2d668607c61ca" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kHHciL73PyQ/T-TQpaPqRpI/AAAAAAAAGl4/RTuHijM9Gas/s1600/XP_Cow.jpg)
Are there any apps/plugins that could check sites for malware?
Yes, there are, but what your nettop needs is less apps and plugins, a careful selection of focused programs.
Yes, there are, but what your nettop needs is less apps and plugins, a careful selection of focused programs.
Thank you! You mean to download&install? Yes, I'm considering not to acquire any new programs on my machine -- only if a plugin should happen needed or something - what do you think?
For now, here's more or less the full house of tools usually needed, so... I have mediaplayers, Java, Adobe Flash - what else? Java (and less often Adobe) tends to [offer to] upgrade/update itself - I accept... ???
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Kidding? "One"? There are dozens only in the background (system-run). Then the players, the office one, those opened by other programs (WMP opens a COUPLE of flashes to run an FLV), let alone Java...
???
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...apparently listen to the 'radio' streams (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=226.msg16101#msg16101) in the web browser.
No. It happens. With the
BBC usually. But I'm saving those streams gradually to files on machine.
Aren't those programs in autostart updaters of your web browsers and their components as well as control panel launchers that came with device drivers? And not real programs.
I don't get it. "Programs" - "not real programs"?
They are sites. Some of them might use folders on my computer (one game I noticed said about that), or/and involve my plugins. For the radio I use my on-machine players.
Here's a checklist
http://netrunner-mag.com/windows-user-wanna-try-linux-checklist/
Interesting...
Here's a checklist
http://netrunner-mag.com/windows-user-wanna-try-linux-checklist/
At some other forums arguing for the possibility of moving from XP to Linux, I gave a near-identical checklist in a far less wordy way. Except that to me gaming seemed to be the toughest nut to crack, whereas to this author the toughest seems to be printing and scanning. Well, I am simply unfamiliar with Steam. I know nothing about it besides that it exists.
Btw, my next try will be to install Netrunner rolling release http://www.netrunner-os.com/download/ for an XP refugee. Netrunner has amazingly light KDE out of the box. We'll see how goes.
:left:
One thing I can tell you: Windows 3 actually came with a really, really good integrated tutorial for n00bs (i.e. me). I haven't been able to find something that good in any Windows since.
+1
Coincidentally, I just came across some screenshots (http://www.guidebookgallery.org/tutorials/windows311forworkgroups). There are a few more (http://www.guidebookgallery.org/tutorials) where that came from.
[glow=black,2,300]XP end-of-support can be overcome with hack
[/glow] :o
Claims support can be extended to 2019 with a "simple registry tweak".
A registry "tweak" allows Windows XP users to continue to receive software updates despite Microsoft ending support for the operating system earlier this year, it has been reported.
A "simple registry tweak" will enable those who are yet to migrate onto a newer version of Windows to receive updates from Microsoft, according to betanews.
The workaround pulls in the updates Microsoft is releasing for embedded versions of XP, which betanews notes would be "essentially" the same as the standard version of the OS.
Theoretically, the hack should extend XP support until 2019..........continued
Microsoft issued a statement warning against that:
"We recently became aware of a hack that purportedly aims to provide security updates to Windows XP customers. The security updates that could be installed are intended for Windows Embedded and Windows Server 2003 customers and do not fully protect Windows XP customers. Windows XP customers also run a significant risk of functionality issues with their machines if they install these updates, as they are not tested against Windows XP. The best way for Windows XP customers to protect their systems is to upgrade to a more modern operating system, like Windows 7 or Windows 8.1."
Damned, I only though Server 2003 64bit was supported to 2015, not the 32bit variants... Mh, but I would assume that unlike to xp x64 which is based on the server 2003 64bit core (and support was ceased together with xps one), those server 2003 updates are not usable for xp, or? (For xp x64 see the discussion over at MSFN x64 Edition Updates Until 2015? (http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/155511-x64-edition-updates-until-2015/))...
Mh, besides my curiosity the only systems I am still using xp on are offline ones - so what should i care ;) Ah yes, XP Mode could be a culprit here :sigh:
Not surprising. A similar OS isn't the same. Hell, I've seen Mint stuff interfere with Ubuntu even though the former is similar and based on the later. A cynic might say Microsoft is just trying to sell more copies of 7 and 8.1, but there's probably something to it. I'm not a fan of the Windows 8.x interface (or Gnome 3 or Unity for that matter :p) but XP needs to put of its misery.
Unity... Yikes, at least they brought back the option to place the menus to where they belong (Top of App Window), but I still prefer Kubuntu-Deskopt as my GUI (Installed on a LTS 14.04 64bit Ubuntu; Somehow I prefer it that way as the pure Kubuntu 14.04 somehow behaved unstable as I tried it from a persistend USB Stick) ;)
I found Unity to be nightmare to use. I tried it when it first came out and found it buggy and slow, I tried it again with Ubuntu 13.10 and still didn't care for it. Gnome 3 with a few extension could be an okay desktop to for work, but after a few hours it slowed to crawl for me. So that leaves KDE and XFCE. LXQT is an interesting new contender, especially if you set it use Kwin but doesn't seem finished enough for me yet.
I still use XP. Need no more.
It was a good thing Microsoft to cease support, no more the irritating automatic updates and, probably, no more virus since everybody it's using something else.
As for programs, I already have all the programs I will need for my entire life. The only problem is if peripherics as printers don't accept anymore XP.
When computers don't run XP anymore, I´ll stop definitively to use them. No patience for digital consumerism in order to turn the Bill Gates of this world rich.