The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Topic: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga (Read 347883 times)

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #825 – 2016-03-10, 05:19:49

None of the Republican lot are impressive and the leading Democrat is a liar, smart alex and very much part of the corporate establishment. The whole thing is one big embarrassment and must make thinking people sad that it has come to what is now in process. How in earth have things got this bad?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #826 – 2016-03-10, 23:12:33

As it's been showed to the world, the US vegetates between rats and intelectual nulities.
It's a good thing that will allow states with decent people to declare independence.
Secession is the only way to go.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #827 – 2016-03-11, 01:37:06

Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-03-10, 15:12:33

As it's been showed to the [ignorant of] world, the US vegetates between rats and intellectual nulities.

It's odd, you know: You sound very much like Donald Trump…

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #828 – 2016-03-12, 14:35:13

And with vast American numbers showing support for the idiotic Trump who makes your country look a shameful laugh how do you explain that one OakdaleFTL?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #829 – 2016-03-12, 15:22:42

Quote from: rjhowie on 2016-03-12, 14:35:13

And with vast American numbers showing support for the idiotic Trump who makes your country look a shameful laugh how do you explain that one OakdaleFTL?

Absurd. Does Scotland "look a shameful laugh" because of Sturgeon and Salmond?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #830 – 2016-03-13, 06:28:35

Quote from: rjhowie on 2016-03-12, 06:35:13

And with vast American numbers showing support for the idiotic Trump who makes your country look a shameful laugh how do you explain that one OakdaleFTL?

As I've said before, we're becoming "European-ized"…
I wish it weren't so. But ignoring reality is not a good way to preclude it.
Only plain and clear language -if it makes the point- can help.

Cruz has the ability to use plain and clear language to make that point. (There: I've endorsed Ted Cruz!) If others have different objectives, I'm not surprised!
Some want us to be Sweden, some want us to be Denmark. Some want us to be North Korea or what we used to call "Red" China… Some want us to be Zimbabwe. (You'll figure it out…!) What is clear is that there's only one candidate who wants to -and will- remain faithful to the constitution, who might be elected…
And he wants us to be America.

(I am truly dismayed, that so many of my countrymen would rather we be something else…)

I'm sure many of you thought that Ronald Reagan had no chance to gain the nomination, or win the general election… (Heck, I think many of you feel betrayed by reality…!) But he won. And won again!
And the USSR collapsed… (Was that a bad thing…?)

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #831 – 2016-03-13, 11:42:32

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-13, 06:28:35

As I've said before, we're becoming "European-ized"…

I doubt very much you ever will.

As for the recent news about Trump's rallies to degenerate into violent confrontations, with the candidate apparently fomenting it, it seems to be one more step into the decaying level Trump brought to American politics.

Another interpretation would be that we're assisting to a campaign aimed to discredit the candidate and associate him with public disorder and violence. If so, such would be not needed, Trump does the job by himself.

How the Republican side keeps admitting Trump to destroy any credibility the party can eventually still have it's a mystery indeed.
Does the man have any political ideas? does he have even the minimum of decency and good manners to appear in public?
Lock him in a mental health facility before it's too late.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #832 – 2016-03-13, 14:44:05

No it is not absurd and that comment on me by an intelligent man?!

The country constantly claims to be the greatest in the world, champion of everything to do with rights and all that stuff (Presidents do the same on the media) yet at the same time makes a mockery by the internal and external actions. Thinking one can be intelligent and then just dismiss what is in the face as a big contradiction does not help. That someone like Trump as bluntly ludicrous and so obviously vain as well as being a clown could be President is a disaster and make the country a world laughing stock. On the other side we have Clinton who has been a liar, cheat and very corporate inclined as an alternative?? I don't create the farce and embarrass that is self-created over there and at least you have a man like Sanders who is in a better leagues of his own.

Other places of a democratic tradition would not have such pathetic similar situations and although you might be miffed on Trump (Clinton no advantage) trying to ignore what your own country produces being supported by legions is of no importance? Tut, tut, boy. Do 50 lines on the system failure!

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #833 – 2016-03-15, 03:06:09

Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-03-13, 11:42:32

As for the recent news about Trump's rallies to degenerate into violent confrontations, with the candidate apparently fomenting it, it seems to be one more step into the decaying level Trump brought to American politics.

At least Trump only has a plurality and not a majority. What's happening at Trump rallies is more representative of what's become of the Republican party of election cycle after election cycle of appealing to the lowest common denominator and playing to their base's fears and prejudices. The party of Lincoln, which not only freed the slaves but modernized the country in general with industrialization, railroads, etc is long dead. Lincoln himself is turning over in his grave as his party turns into its equally useless predecessor, the Whigs.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #834 – 2016-03-15, 08:56:52

Quote

My previous view of Trump was as a kind of vaccine. The Republican Party relies on the covert mobilization of racial resentment and nationalism. Trump, as I saw it, was bringing into the open that which had been intentionally submerged. It seemed like a containable dose of disease, too small to take over its host, but large enough to set off a counter-reaction of healthy blood cells. But the outbreak of violence this weekend suggests the disease may be spreading far wider than I believed, and infecting healthy elements of the body politic.
I remain convinced that Trump cannot win the presidency. But what I failed to account for was the possibility that his authoritarian style could degrade American politics even in defeat. There is a whiff in the air of the notion that the election will be settled in the streets -- a poisonous idea that is unsafe in even the smallest doses.
(source)

This is quintessential Democrat Party thinking… The Oops! factor is built-in; they can't help themselves!

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-14, 19:06:09

[…] What's happening at Trump rallies is more representative of what's become of the Republican party of election cycle after election cycle of appealing to the lowest common denominator and playing to their base's fears and prejudices.[…]

So, MoveOn.Org, BlackLivesMatter, and Bernie Sanders "Sandernistas" had no part…? Who, then, disrupted the venue…? Reaganites?

Who are the lawless groups, Sang? The folk who wanted to hear The Donald speak, or the folk who resorted to violence to prevent him from doing so…?

I'm probably as appalled as you are, at Trump's popularity — and chances to become the Republican nominee… (More so, I think. But I won't bother to explain why, to the likes of you.) We do all reap what we sow.

You're stuck with Clinton or Sanders… How's that make you feel? (Schadenfreude is the term that comes to mind!

I do sort-of enjoy it!) What I don't understand, is why you won't support a principled constitutionalist like Ted Cruz…
Sure: His dad is a nut-case Christian. He himself proclaims to be a Christian. But — he's a constitutionalist! And, on the basis of a long history, a man of his word. As president, he would uphold the constitution, I think.
Do you think otherwise? (Or do you fear that he would…?

)

What do you think should be the direction, for our country?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #835 – 2016-03-15, 09:54:47

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-15, 08:56:52

or the folk who resorted to violence to prevent him from doing so…?

Or the Trump supporters who resorted to violence at other rallies, or Trump himself who promised to pay the legal fees of supporters who resorted to violence? I said a long time ago that the Tea Party would "small government" us straight into a dictatorship and now we're staring down having a full on fascist (not an epithet but a statement of fact) becoming president. How many of his supporters are the same ones that were at TP rallies? I saw this coming years ago; the only thing I didn't know was the name of the man who would transition us to that form of government.

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-15, 08:56:52

He himself proclaims to be a Christian. But — he's a constitutionalist

I question this on the issue of separation of church and state. Some Republicans claim this doesn't even exist. I'll need to be shown his not among their number. In recent years; we've had "constitutionalists" show they pick and choose what parts of constitution they like; just as we've had Republican "libertarians" trying to protect and even expand the rule of government. So experience tells me to disbelieve a Republican when he claims to be either of those by default until he shows otherwise.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #836 – 2016-03-15, 16:44:49

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-15, 08:56:52

What do you think should be the direction, for our country?

Truly smaller government, unlike what the GOP hypocrites. Less surveillance, reduction in military spending. History tells us that having bases all over the world and spending this much on military is an unsustainable economic burden that makes enemies.

Actual constitutionalism - none of this "we believe in the constitution until it offends our 'sincerely held beliefs' (even as we ignore the rest the of the Bible) " crap faux constitutionalists offer. This means more than simply equal marriage. It tells me the GOPers are only willing to uphold the constitution up to the point where it becomes inconvenient. How else do they plan on breaking the highest law of this land?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #837 – 2016-03-15, 18:37:59

Spot on.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #838 – 2016-03-15, 19:14:36

You're on solid intellectual ground, there, Sang: Howie agrees with you!

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #839 – 2016-03-16, 05:06:27

It should be Trump and Cruz… But Kaisitch wants to be another Perot, a third candidate who gives the Democrats the majority. Does he think that will endear him to fellow Republicans?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #840 – 2016-03-16, 05:18:29

The GOP is on intellectual quicksand. That's the case not only with producing candidates like Trump, but along the lines of the "full me once..." saying. Pretty much every single time they expand the military industrial complex, which the last decent Republican; Eisenhower warned us about along with the deficit. Cut taxes for the rich (again) and increase the military and the deficit balloons. Who would have thought it besides those that can add and subtract? Oh yeah, the military is a huge part of the government.

They promise to reduce entitlements. The payments to individuals is not going to decrease, due to the aging baby boomer population needing healthcare, etc. That leaves reducing overhead and administrative costs as the only means to control costs. Where are the Republican ideas for doing this? *crickets*

That's just the bringing. As I said, quicksand. All they have left is being "angry." Tell me, are people at their most rational when they're angry and lack a constructive way to channel their feelings?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #841 – 2016-03-16, 06:11:15

I've finally figured it out, Sang: You're a Howie clone…

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #842 – 2016-03-16, 07:38:23

I see you're unable to address any of my criticisms of the GOP.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #843 – 2016-03-16, 07:55:17

You don't have criticisms of the GOP, Sang… You have tics and twitches!
You know nothing about conservatism, and admit to nothing that you can't help but know about progressivism or liberalism or Democratic Party "codes" of any other stripe!
But you want what you want! (That's your political philosophy…)

You have criticisms of the GOP? Well, boy-o, I do too!
Yours amount to: They're not liberal Democrats…! Mine are a little more nuanced.

So: Who are you going to vote for, Bernie or Hillary?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #844 – 2016-03-16, 09:47:42

No, I notice what actually happens when they come to power. This is every single time. Put them in Congress and they act like kindergartners, shutting down the government and lowering the country's credit rating if they don't get what they want. These children need to go to reform school. BTW, I probably know more about conservatism than you, having come from a true conservative family and having lived in conservative parts of the country. The brand of conservatism that taken over the GOP isn't small government at all. It's descended from the old "dixiecrats" that defected to the Republican party as result of civil rights granted to African Americans. Having lived in their heartland, I can tell you that those folks are socially conservative but are big government authoritarian, despite claims otherwise. To them, freedom means the right to discriminate and screw everybody else's constitutional rights.

You might read American Thinker and similar sites that gush about small government, but that's not what happens when they get elected and that authoritarian streak takes over. You lived in Massachusetts and California, but I lived in deep Red country, so perhaps you haven't seen what happens when the new "dixiecrats" with an R by their name take over a state, but I have.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #845 – 2016-03-16, 22:14:23

I've also lived in Texas and Colorado… And traveled through a great many other states.

So, have you not decided who you'd vote for yet?

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #846 – 2016-03-17, 15:51:12

Colorado isn't right-wing anymore. I lived there for a while. Texas, it depends on where you're at. The point it the mind bogles when people think they're voting for a "libertarian" or even a small government person in these candidates. Even their stated polices indicate otherwise. Deport all illegal immigrants. Granted they shouldn't be here in the first place, what what kind of intelligence and surveillance apparatus would need to constructed to track down 11 million people and how long before it turns on legal citizens? In what way is this small government? Then, of course, we need to expand the NSA even as the Republican lead government becomes far more of threat to freedom than al Qaeda and ISIL ever was. Oh that's right. Republicans bring "freedom" because they promise to allow discrimination against queers

I probably won't be voting for anybody, but against fascist Trump or dominionist Cruz.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #847 – 2016-03-18, 02:41:52

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2016-03-17, 07:51:12

Colorado isn't right-wing anymore.

I suppose you can be excused from knowing much about the '70s…

So: You'd rather have an avowed socialist or a master practitioner of kleptocracy than Cruz, because you fear him being a Christian?
He's a constitutionalist — something I'd expect you to have little understanding of!

(By the way: If you think "allowing" a "Christian" baker to refuse to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding is discrimination, you're one of the most intolerant people I've ever talked to…

)

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #848 – 2016-03-18, 12:39:33

It is to a degree fairly obvious that there are large numbers of people fed up with the Beltway mindset. Mind you there is always an issue in any capital of course just a bit more in tr
the stablishment and corporate influence. Trump gets somewhere due to that I dare say but the stuff we get is that because he is not a regular politician that is why he is doing so well. Well maybe top a degree but it is however not a very good thing at all the way he acts and all those large groups of people acting like children at rallies. Very immature. Mind you it is the same on the Democrat side and neither Trump nor Clinton are very great. Clinton miight well have political experience but she is a waste of time. Lies, intrigue and all that style she puts on pointing to people and putting on smiles, etc.

Clinton will no doubt win and the global imperialism will continue the keeping up of confrontation with Russia, the tens of millions of people in the country in poverty and so on. When Obama won for the Democrats we were to expect big changes but didn't. He was sometimes unsure the economy didn't progress, the wrong base was still in Cuba, sent out more drones than Bush and killed more too, etc, etc. Many in all honesty do want to see change but will not get it with either Clinton or Trump and what they will get is the usual routine. Sanders was a unique change and maybe in the future a younger man may take up the mantle for a new direction becaue I feel for Americans who love their country and that they are not getting an answer and at this election will see that negative continue.

Damn shame.

Re: The American 2016 Presidential Elections & The Ongoing American Saga

Reply #849 – 2016-03-18, 13:04:00

Quote from: Belfrager on 2016-03-13, 11:42:32

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2016-03-13, 06:28:35
As I've said before, we're becoming "European-ized"…

I doubt very much you ever will.

As for the recent news about Trump's rallies to degenerate into violent confrontations, with the candidate apparently fomenting it, it seems to be one more step into the decaying level Trump brought to American politics.

Another interpretation would be that we're assisting to a campaign aimed to discredit the candidate and associate him with public disorder and violence. If so, such would be not needed, Trump does the job by himself.

How the Republican side keeps admitting Trump to destroy any credibility the party can eventually still have it's a mystery indeed.
Does the man have any political ideas? does he have even the minimum of decency and good manners to appear in public?
Lock him in a mental health facility before it's too late.

I'd drink to that last sentence....