The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Topic: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office (Read 54342 times)

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #175 – 2017-03-17, 05:12:26

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2017-03-16, 20:47:32

I wonder who actually thinks the travel ban from those countries will accomplish anything?

Perhaps almost every Obama administration national security official…

Your memory is much like your reading ability: Deficient.
Why should district court judges be given national security responsibilities?

It's in the constitution, isn't it? Nah!

BTW: If the Establishment Clause applies outside the U.S., we should take over Iran, Saudi Arabia — and who knows how many other countries!

You wanna pay for that, Sang?

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #176 – 2017-03-17, 16:58:42

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2017-03-17, 03:34:19

[I've not forgot that I asked you a question, ersi. But there's no hurry…]

You mean this one: "What, in your "serious" analysis, has President Trump done to earn your enmity?"

Malformed question and answered already. I have no enmity with Trump. No feelings whatsoever. None. As to what has he done? Provided an intense fireworks of farce where it's unbecoming. Clowns used to be sidekicks, but right now one is stealing the main show. Details in previous pages.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #177 – 2017-03-17, 17:39:10

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2017-03-17, 05:12:26

Perhaps almost every Obama administration national security official... Your memory is much like your reading ability: Deficient.

That's not quite the same. You could compare it to circumcision and tonsillectomy. The latter is basically the Dutch form of circumcision. I too don't have my tonsils. But! Even though tonsillectomy rates should be way lower, tonsillectomies still only occur in response to an actual swelling, an actual medical problem of some sort as opposed to just cutting them off on the minute chance that someone might later develop a problem with their tonsils. No matter how small they might be in a proper sterile environment, the additional risks of surgery-related complications are ridiculously high. You just don't do surgery unless there's an extremely good reason to. Anyway, in the worst case scenario you're arguing for, Obama's ban is still like Dutch tonsillectomy, an overreaction to an actual issue, whereas Trump's ban is more like American circumcision.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #178 – 2017-03-17, 20:43:40

Whew! That's quite a lot of hyperbole to pack into one extended analogy… But, since it fails to capture the essence via comparison, it sheds no light; other than to say you don't like the Executive Order, and -somehow- you think it dangerous.
You're certainly entitled to that opinion.

But extra-legal hoops the judges who stayed the EO are telling, no?

You're familiar with the term black-letter law?

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #179 – 2017-03-17, 21:19:51

I fail to see how comparing unnecessary and stupid but mostly harmless medical procedures to potentially destroying people's lives falls under the category of hyperbole, but okay. The point is quite simply that on the one hand you've got a response to actual issue. In the worst case scenario it's the wrong response. On the other hand you've got a completely random action in response to nothing at all. In the best case scenario it won't have any negative consequences.

I would imagine this difference matters in your black-letter law, too. Does it establish the right to implement such measures in response to a concrete fact, or does it establish the right to implement such measures at a whim? And if it is the latter then whatever's in the black-letter law is just plain stupid, because that would mean a would-be *insert your negative leader model of choice* wouldn't even need a pretext.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #180 – 2017-03-18, 00:53:47

"potentially destroying people's lives"? Come now, that's hyperbole… There's an absolute right to immigrate to the U.S. or even to visit the U.S.? Or are you arguing that the U.S. should be the World's policeman? And welfare agency?

Quote

[…] section 212(f) of the INA, which provides in relevant part: "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate." 8 U.S.C. 1182(f).
(source)

(The link is to the March 6 EO in its entirety.)
If you dislike the law, take it up with Congress. They wrote it…

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #181 – 2017-03-18, 10:12:42

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2017-03-18, 00:53:47

"potentially destroying people's lives"? Come now, that's hyperbole... There's an absolute right to immigrate to the U.S. or even to visit the U.S.? Or are you arguing that the U.S. should be the World's policeman? And welfare agency?

If I, as a white citizen of one of America's closest allies, feel unwelcome in America, it doesn't take a whole lot of empathy to figure out how someone from a less privileged country might feel.^[1] But the hyperbole is not mine. Have you already forgotten this?

Quote

Trump's immigration ban initially applied to up to 500,000 green card holders
But the Trump administration now says they may return to America from abroad if they pass security checks

Hyperbole shmyperbole.

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2017-03-18, 00:53:47

If you dislike the law, take it up with Congress. They wrote it...

"And if it is the latter then whatever's in the black-letter law is just plain stupid." But it's actually not quite that stupid: https://www.cato.org/blog/governments-bad-arguments-defense-discriminating-against-immigrants-based-nationality

¹NB This is not a Trump thing. This is based on my knowledge of and personal experience with Bush and Obama-related policies. It's not unthinkable that Trump would make someone like me feel more welcome, but perhaps I'm not Russian enough…↵

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #182 – 2017-03-18, 11:12:26

Quote from: Frenzie on 2017-03-18, 10:12:42

but perhaps I'm not Russian enough...

Not Russian enough?
At what degree are you Russian already?

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #183 – 2017-03-18, 11:21:50

My primary known ancestry is lower French nobility (Huguenots who fled religious persecution), south-German middle class (Ulm region) and namesake Zeelandic (farmers, a preacher, that kind of thing). So I suppose that realistically I'm mainly Zeelandic-Bavarian with a decent splash of French and some more (different) German, but there might be some Russian in there.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #184 – 2017-03-18, 11:48:01

Quote from: Frenzie on 2017-03-18, 11:21:50

I'm mainly Zeelandic-Bavarian with a decent splash of French and some more (different) German, but there might be some Russian in there.

That's far from being enough or even anything. I'm afraid that you'll have to dig much deeper. Wish you luck.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #185 – 2017-03-18, 11:54:22

Peter the Great adored the Netherlands for its scientific prowess, for its trade acumen, for building his fleet, for its cheese and for its soused herring. Isn't that enough?

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #186 – 2017-03-18, 12:03:12

Hmm, not really.
If he'd invaded it and kept it for a while, chances for a Russian ancestor would have been much better.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #187 – 2017-03-18, 12:11:43

He probably fathered my Zeelandic ancestral line (and that of most Dutch people) while being taught how to build ships at the local wharfs, or maybe while he was being taught how to build locks, fortresses, and entire cities.

But occupation? Never! We'd just driven out the Spanish tyranny.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #188 – 2017-03-18, 17:18:05

Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2017-03-17, 05:12:26

You wanna pay for that, Sang?

Did you want to learn anything for once in your life? I didn't think so. Banning those six countries will do little to nothing to stop terrorism. Of course this has nothing to do with establishment clause at all. Banning all Muslim would create that appearance. What happened, you read somewhere tying this to the establishment clause was the liberal position. How many times did I have to tell you, for me it's about what works. Banning countries that have never committed terrorism in the US while allowing travel from countries that produce the most Islamic terrorists is a complete failure, except for ISIS who can use it as a propaganda recruitment tool. Again, what will stop ISIS from sending a terrorist from Saudi Arabia (or any other country of origin from the 9/11 terrorists...) Nothing at all. The travel ban is just stupid crap to make is brain dead supporters (such as yourself) think he's actually doing something. In fact, this could be worse than doing nothing by creating a false sense of security.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #189 – 2017-03-18, 20:43:49

Quote from: midnight raccoon on 2017-03-18, 09:18:05

What happened, you read somewhere tying this to the establishment clause was the liberal position.

Yeah, I "read somewhere"…

Your speculations about national security and the War on Terror™ are a mish-mash of leftie talking points, Sang. If Obama had issued this order it would have been constitutional but since Trump did it isn't? (Even Alan Dershowitz finds this reasoning odd.

) But for you it's par for the course…
Carry on, proud resistor!

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #190 – 2017-03-19, 18:49:29

Guess what, Obama didn't issue the order and it would have been idiotic if he did (explainng why he didn't...) This makes your reasoning odd, not mine. I don't know if the second order is constitutional or not, but that's immaterial on the matter of if it will accomplish anything or not, besides provide the terrorists anti-american propaganda of course.

My position isn't a mish-mash of anything; it's merely questioning the policy on national security grounds. But you know this if you would stop trying to make up my positions for me. Do us both a favor and stop trying to incorrectly tell me my opinion.

Why are you such s blind Trump worshipper now? You must know in your heart, he's a gigantic ignoramus, the new "know nothing." This guy's job performance combined with his wild conspiracy theories is enough to make one miss Bush.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #191 – 2017-03-19, 19:43:05

Guess what, Sang: I quoted Alan Dershowitz... Obviously a right-wing kook who knows nothing about ConLaw! (I guess you no longer follow links. Good practice, for you: You don't seem to understand what you read or hear. Beyond "Trump bad!" that is.

)
So: You're cool with my source for the ludicrous claim that the second EO can be stayed because it runs afoul of the Establishment clause?

(Or did you skip that link too?)

I still fail to see the origin of your foreign policy and national security expertise... (CNN or HuffPo, seem likely though.)

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #192 – 2017-03-19, 20:05:17

I don't know nor care who he is. Once again, I'm not arguing the establishment clause. But you know this, but are unable to demonstrate that a travel ban on those six countries will do anything to prevent terrorism (again, ban Syria and ISIS can just send somebody from Saudi Arabia - the birthplace of bin Laden...) Next time pay fucking attention

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #193 – 2017-03-19, 20:33:50

You don't know who Alan Dershowitz is? And you attempt to ridicule my legal understanding?

Now I need to "demonstrate" that the President's policy "will do anything to prevent terrorism"? You're the National Security Advisor, now? (Even if so, it's still the President's call...)
Cuss all you want, Sang! It only makes you look sillier...

p.s.,
If you read the opinions written by members of the 9th Circuit about that Court's refusal to re-hear en banc, you'll gain some understanding of why its Panel decision was so bad...

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #194 – 2017-03-20, 02:41:54

Tut, tut, Language, midnight.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #195 – 2017-03-20, 03:03:29

I already chided Sang for his language, RJ; no need to pile-on: He's a child, who needs to be taught. (Unfortunately, he poses as an adult amenable to rational argument…

Sang certainly isn't that!

)

[I wanted to post the 98lb weakling posing as Bluto… But I didn't find that quickly. Upon refletiion, this works! Sang has some issues…

]

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #196 – 2017-03-21, 03:06:29

No what do you know OakdaleFTL - we have those kind of holiday postcards here too! have to say that swearing is I am afraid a weakness and can happen when a person goes bananas in an argument.

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #197 – 2017-03-21, 03:41:36

In other words, you agree with Sang and his "98-pound weakling" opinions? But I'd agree: cussing is a sign of acknowledgement that one has already lost the argument…

The argument about President Trump's Executive Orders concerning vetting of immigrants is bizarre: Hawaii and the state of Washington's district court judges should determine national security questions?
I know you don't understand this… But even you should glom that these are not "players"…

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #198 – 2017-03-22, 01:35:45

Oops! There's going to be a ninth Justice on the Supreme Court! I'll admit, that I don't know how Gorsuch will rule — it depends upon the actual case and the facts presented. But my understanding of the relevant law and precedents leads me to believe that the Justice will be in the majority…
And Trump's Executive Order will be upheld.
(Sang will wail "Bwah, Republicans…

Because everything Democrat is good and everything Republican is bad; that's his level of discourse.)

Re: The Inauguration, & U.S. President Donald Trump's First 100 Days in Office

Reply #199 – 2017-03-22, 02:08:23

Dear, oh dear. How did you manage to work out that head scratching thing that I was automatically agreeing with your adversary??!