The DnD Sanctuary

Terror came to the heart of the Canadian capital Ottawa on Wednesday as a suspected jihadist gunman shot dead a soldier at the national war memorial and then rampaged through the halls of the federal parliament.

The attacker, who was killed in a gun battle inside parliament, was named as Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, a Canadian-born 32-year-old.

He was a recent convert to Islam from Quebec with a history of drug abuse and whose passport had been seized by authorities after he was designated a "high-risk traveller", Canadian media reported.................Continued (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/canada/11181394/Soldier-killed-as-gunman-brings-terror-to-Canadian-Parliament.html)

 

Duplication in this thread? We already have a Muslim one and this is stretching it a bit.

These are hideous people.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/29/isis-s-newest-recruit-is-10-years-old.html
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.thedailybeast.com%2Fcontent%2Fdailybeast%2Farticles%2F2014%2F06%2F29%2Fisis-s-newest-recruit-is-10-years-old%2Fjcr%3Acontent%2Fimage.crop.800.500.jpg%2F1404101736697.cached.jpg&hash=076e649a5de1ffa443d7ddf593404145" rel="cached" data-hash="076e649a5de1ffa443d7ddf593404145" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2014/06/29/isis-s-newest-recruit-is-10-years-old/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/1404101736697.cached.jpg)

The interesting thing about warmongers is that literally none of them understand the concept of blowback.

Did some ppl not consider what 65+ years of installing tin-pot dictators would bring? Especially to a highly uneducated ppl and an extremely regressive religion?

This is what religion in general brings; being anti-intelligence/education brings dumbassery and terrorism, especially in ALL Abrahamic religions.

And yes, I realize this nutter is from Canada.

We (most countries in the world. I would guess) seem to be drifting into the equivalent of a state of war with Fundamentalist "Islam" (I use "" because there is now a lot of evidence about a backlash in the Muslim community against these extremists and one has to doubt that "Islam" relates to what the fundamentalist terrorists are about).

It has a parallel with what many Brits (including me by the way) felt about the Irish Terrorist Campaign in Northern Ireland. with their self-styled "war" against the N.I. status-quo. At a certain point one has to, I believe, stop treating terrorists like criminals and treat them as enemy combatants subject to the extremes of counter force that happen in wartime.

That's not an easy step and arguments like "not being brought down to the level of the terrorists" are very persuasive not only because of their logic but because civilised behaviour is what we fundamentally all want. But after a while repeated terrorist actions have an effect on the language and on the emotional reaction of the population at large and a "war on terror" becomes what people actually want, desiring a quicker end to atrocities. So there is a threshold between police response and a military response. When one's fellow citizens get hurt people start to take the matter seriously, not as something that happens so far away it does not matter.

Bush used the term "War on Terror" to add emotional weight to his military actions and also, it's clear, a legal basis for treating "the enemy" with the ferocity of war-time and the laissez-faire on methods used
The recent attacks in Canada and the US were relatively minor compared to indiscriminate bombing and murders, 9/11, genocidal attacks and others but it seems that the threshold is reached rather quickly. The Canadian and US "terrorist attacks" may not have been planned as such, but by now we know the excesses to which they can lead.

Frankly I'm not surprised. This problem will require unpleasant solutions I'm afraid.

The photo that Jimbro posted is two edged - disgust at the depravity of an organisation that recruits people of such a long age, and the long term implication of brain-washing, and the disgust at the prospect of having to shoult such kids in combat. It's a no-win situation which begins to look inevitable.

The interesting thing about warmongers is that literally none of them understand the concept of blowback.

Did some ppl not consider what 65+ years of installing tin-pot dictators would bring? Especially to a highly uneducated ppl and an extremely regressive religion?

This is what religion in general brings; being anti-intelligence/education brings dumbassery and terrorism, especially in ALL Abrahamic religions.

And yes, I realize this nutter is from Canada.

Good, point made & taken ----- along with all the others, now that we know your drift on the cause, & we come to realize once again we are in 2014, what are your ideas regarding a "CURE"  for this ISIS/ISIL move to use 'home grown radicalized murderers' to kill you & me, & all our families? 

Religion, or better religious activity, is not about to halt any time soon, & it's way too soon to re-write our history again to appease those that think we should have done something otherwise, do you suggest we self-flagellate, or do we act decisively upon the present day threat(s) from ISIS/ISIL? 

Your ideas/suggestions.........your "CURE"?

Quote from: Colonel Rebel on 2014-11-02, 16:06:53

The interesting thing about warmongers is that literally none of them understand the concept of blowback.

Did some ppl not consider what 65+ years of installing tin-pot dictators would bring? Especially to a highly uneducated ppl and an extremely regressive religion?

This is what religion in general brings; being anti-intelligence/education brings dumbassery and terrorism, especially in ALL Abrahamic religions.

And yes, I realize this nutter is from Canada.

Good, point made & taken ----- along with all the others, now that we know your drift on the cause, & we come to realize once again we are in 2014, what are your ideas regarding a "CURE"  for this ISIS/ISIL move to use 'home grown radicalized murderers' to kill you & me, & all our families? 

Religion, or better religious activity, is not about to halt any time soon, & it's way too soon to re-write our history again to appease those that think we should have done something otherwise, do you suggest we self-flagellate, or do we act decisively upon the present day threat(s) from ISIS/ISIL? 

Your ideas/suggestions.........your "CURE"?

1. Tell the Military-Industrial Complex in the country to fawk right off.

2. Avoid having an interventionist foreign policy. (I've been preaching this since I became politically active in 2007).

3. Focus on the U.S. and it's territories needs and IMMEDIATELY end ALL foreign aid. And yes, this includes Israel.

4. End this "nod nod, wink wink" tax credit policy we have towards all religions. I am tired of giving tax credits/subsidizing superstitious nonsense.

5. Prioritize STEM education in higher education; this also means a revamp of the student loan industry.

6. Have the 43rd President thrown in jail for effectively creating ISIS, and try the 44th for continuing the 43rd's dumarse policies.


Additionally, it should be noted that we (the U.S.) created these terrorists. History once again repeating itself bc of war profiteerers. Dumbass mistakes that could have been avoided.

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-11-02, 19:27:19

Quote from: Colonel Rebel on 2014-11-02, 16:06:53

The interesting thing about warmongers is that literally none of them understand the concept of blowback.

Did some ppl not consider what 65+ years of installing tin-pot dictators would bring? Especially to a highly uneducated ppl and an extremely regressive religion?

This is what religion in general brings; being anti-intelligence/education brings dumbassery and terrorism, especially in ALL Abrahamic religions.

And yes, I realize this nutter is from Canada.

Good, point made & taken ----- along with all the others, now that we know your drift on the cause, & we come to realize once again we are in 2014, what are your ideas regarding a "CURE"  for this ISIS/ISIL move to use 'home grown radicalized murderers' to kill you & me, & all our families? 

Religion, or better religious activity, is not about to halt any time soon, & it's way too soon to re-write our history again to appease those that think we should have done something otherwise, do you suggest we self-flagellate, or do we act decisively upon the present day threat(s) from ISIS/ISIL? 

Your ideas/suggestions.........your "CURE"?

1. Tell the Military-Industrial Complex in the country to fawk right off.

2. Avoid having an interventionist foreign policy. (I've been preaching this since I became politically active in 2007).

3. Focus on the U.S. and it's territories needs and IMMEDIATELY end ALL foreign aid. And yes, this includes Israel.

4. End this "nod nod, wink wink" tax credit policy we have towards all religions. I am tired of giving tax credits/subsidizing superstitious nonsense.

5. Prioritize STEM education in higher education; this also means a revamp of the student loan industry.

6. Have the 43rd President thrown in jail for effectively creating ISIS, and try the 44th for continuing the 43rd's dumarse policies.


Additionally, it should be noted that we (the U.S.) created these terrorists. History once again repeating itself bc of war profiteerers. Dumbass mistakes that could have been avoided.

Interestingly, according to your precise assessments, it's only America's fault.

America caused the 911 Attacks.

America caused the Subway & Bus bombings in England.

America caused all the beheadings.

America gave birth to all the suicide bombers.

America caused the schoolchildren to be stolen, converted, & then sold off as 'wives'.

America is totally at fault for every last Islamic attack, every bomb ignited, every bullet fired, every life taken in the name of............... PBOH

No-one & nothing else needs to change, only America.

Well, I think you've made your point.

Once America changes all it's evil ways, turns Israel to the wolves, & submissively converts to Islam in toto, all will be right with the world, love & understanding will flourish, & finally the Eloi can live peacefully evermore with the Morlock.

So Nick, might I be forward enough to ask, when are you off to join up with ISIS?

Allah Akbar ..... Assalamu Alaikum  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/adoreen7.gif)

History once again repeating itself

it seems History not repeating itself ..

but simply ...
Those people who do not learn from history are cursed to repeat it .

isn't it somekind of educations issues ? .. 

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FfVJW3ZG.jpg&hash=accdfa2f0a47a0476a0eef2ec5eefd17" rel="cached" data-hash="accdfa2f0a47a0476a0eef2ec5eefd17" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/fVJW3ZG.jpg)

Was that picture taken from Saudi Arabia's Chop-Chop Square, our close ally and friend?
I'm asking because our dear Saudi friends have some unique shows which Western tourists are welcome to attend.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.executedtoday.com%2Fimages%2FFive-in-Jizan.jpg&hash=57eef137a9a1a4a3af51d6ebee773d41" rel="cached" data-hash="57eef137a9a1a4a3af51d6ebee773d41" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.executedtoday.com/images/Five-in-Jizan.jpg)

As for America ... :zip:
How about a white lamb as trade mark for the good guys of the Empire?

Quote from: Colonel Rebel on 2014-11-04, 20:57:17

Quote from: SmileyFaze on 2014-11-02, 19:27:19

Quote from: Colonel Rebel on 2014-11-02, 16:06:53

The interesting thing about warmongers is that literally none of them understand the concept of blowback.

Did some ppl not consider what 65+ years of installing tin-pot dictators would bring? Especially to a highly uneducated ppl and an extremely regressive religion?

This is what religion in general brings; being anti-intelligence/education brings dumbassery and terrorism, especially in ALL Abrahamic religions.

And yes, I realize this nutter is from Canada.

Good, point made & taken ----- along with all the others, now that we know your drift on the cause, & we come to realize once again we are in 2014, what are your ideas regarding a "CURE"  for this ISIS/ISIL move to use 'home grown radicalized murderers' to kill you & me, & all our families? 

Religion, or better religious activity, is not about to halt any time soon, & it's way too soon to re-write our history again to appease those that think we should have done something otherwise, do you suggest we self-flagellate, or do we act decisively upon the present day threat(s) from ISIS/ISIL? 

Your ideas/suggestions.........your "CURE"?

1. Tell the Military-Industrial Complex in the country to fawk right off.

2. Avoid having an interventionist foreign policy. (I've been preaching this since I became politically active in 2007).

3. Focus on the U.S. and it's territories needs and IMMEDIATELY end ALL foreign aid. And yes, this includes Israel.

4. End this "nod nod, wink wink" tax credit policy we have towards all religions. I am tired of giving tax credits/subsidizing superstitious nonsense.

5. Prioritize STEM education in higher education; this also means a revamp of the student loan industry.

6. Have the 43rd President thrown in jail for effectively creating ISIS, and try the 44th for continuing the 43rd's dumarse policies.


Additionally, it should be noted that we (the U.S.) created these terrorists. History once again repeating itself bc of war profiteerers. Dumbass mistakes that could have been avoided.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FfVJW3ZG.jpg&hash=accdfa2f0a47a0476a0eef2ec5eefd17" rel="cached" data-hash="accdfa2f0a47a0476a0eef2ec5eefd17" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://imgur.com/fVJW3ZG.jpg)

That's ole Georgie W. there, playing peacefully there with a 'non-believer'.

Interestingly, according to your precise assessments, it's only America's fault.

America caused the 911 Attacks.

America caused the Subway & Bus bombings in England.

America caused all the beheadings.

America gave birth to all the suicide bombers.

America caused the schoolchildren to be stolen, converted, & then sold off as 'wives'.

America is totally at fault for every last Islamic attack, every bomb ignited, every bullet fired, every life taken in the name of............... PBOH

No-one & nothing else needs to change, only America.

Well, I think you've made your point.

Once America changes all it's evil ways, turns Israel to the wolves, & submissively converts to Islam in toto, all will be right with the world, love & understanding will flourish, & finally the Eloi can live peacefully evermore with the Morlock.

So Nick, might I be forward enough to ask, when are you off to join up with ISIS?

Allah Akbar ..... Assalamu Alaikum  (https://www.smileyfaze.tk/slides/adoreen7.gif)

When you'd like to discuss this like adults, let me know. :)

Also, the irony in the final bit of your post runs quite high Sir.

Quote

History once again repeating itself

it seems History not repeating itself ..

but simply ...
Those people who do not learn from history are cursed to repeat it .

isn't it somekind of educations issues ? ..

Your middle quote is spot on.

i sometimes  also argue with   those islamists utopias .
in my humble opinion , the patterns is similar with marxist utopias .

i can confirm if those people  logic are  errors .
usually , their favorite logical fallacies  are  : group think fallacy , strawman , red herring , black or white , gray fallacy ,    nirvana fallacy .
in example :

1. those people believe if the best governmental system is only khilafah : those prophetic system   from God . 

they believe if Khilafa is the sollution for all problems .

satirically -->  constipation , car machines exhausted , migrain, etc  ?   --> the sollution is khilafah 



2. black or white : convert to islam  or you are  kafir  ( non-muslim , etc )

khilafah , in simple definition ;  the government that ruled by khalifa ( Leader )  and using syaria as the foundation .

i do not intend to generalizing  ..
but some of them  for real  propagate to murder those non-muslim which they used to call it as " Kafir "
--for some illogical reasons ,  kafir's blood is halal . 


and for somehow , deal with them is not as simply as ABC .
since slaughter   huge amount of Human ( even proven have mental disorder) is categorized as Genocide and will broke national / international Laws .

while those extremists are do not even care about Rules or laws ...
generally speaking , Criminalities  such as : murder , steal , rape , etc is Halal if for Jihad purpose to build khilafah .

ironically , oftenly those people says if Rules and laws made by Human is Thagut and bid'ah .
since it do not existed in the book and hadit .

2. black or white : convert to islam  or you are  kafir  ( non-muslim , etc )

I would of course disagree that an unbeliever cannot be good, but that sounds more like a definition than a fallacy? :)

in the extremists vocabulary ...  Kafir is not just the unbelievers ..

there are many examples :

go with this group or you are kafir
agree with this group or you are kafir 
etc..
when someone labeled as "Kafir" it mean those one is allowed to be killed.

of course   those who doesnot agree with some Group can easily labelled as Kafir .

that's how they Killing each other , bc each group believe if another group is kafir .

Well..
all i can say , Those people See the World and reality with different Point of view .

Well, you'd find that Muslims, even the extreme ones, are quite circumspect and careful about whom they are actually calling a kafir. There is literally hell to pay. If you call a Muslim (in the eyes of Allah, the all-knowing etc.) a kafir, you are yourself a kafir and you will burn and burn and burn.

That would lead to an interesting Muslim game of chicken. If you wrongfully call somebody a kafir you turn into a kafir in an instant, and everyone else can harmlessly call you a kafir, including the wrongly accused. Timing is critical. On the other hand a kafir could become a Muslim, so there might be a limited window of opportunity. I will have to consult a Muslim theologican, preferably several, about that.

ofc Muslim theologian will deny that ..



generally speaking , in extremists point of view  Western is kafir ...

or simply whoever doesnt agree with their groups is Kafir .

that's how they Bombing mericans , UK , etc ..

on the other hand ..

they believe if  Killing kafirs  , direct kill , or kamikaze bomb , will got   reward " 72 angels in heaven ". 

Not to mention China is Represive , especially about religions .

Check that " China Government ban Muslim activities  "

Thus can only  observe extremists in the State where religions is part of Freedom   .

mericans ,   africans , or my country , etc ..

There are Muslim terrorists here in China as well. But in that case they are primarily Xinjiang separatists, and religion has a secondary role. There are a few Islamists, that have flocked to Iraq and elsewhere. China has had a large Muslim (and once Christian and Jewish) minority for centuries, Islam is pretty well integrated in the society.

Under the Cultural Revolution all religion was repressed, particularly the "native" ones (buddhism, daoism...). Now religion is only suppressed if the (local, central) government consider it a threat, in which case it can be be brutally so. Relatively to Western governments Chinese policing sometimes seem rather timid and slow, but at some point a decision is made and they come down much harder than Western police would. I think the Western approach is more effective, and China can learn a lot from the West.

as far as i know , Western Methodes is about  science  .

Science / scientia / knowledge  is the intellectual manipulation of carefully verified observations .

Stupidity , and Have mental issues is genuinely Human rights .
and Genocide or Brutal Force  is against Human rights .

therefore, politicians should solve every issues in their Nation  without broke  any national or international  laws and  rules .

There are Muslim terrorists here in China as well. But in that case they are primarily Xinjiang separatists, and religion has a secondary role. There are a few Islamists, that have flocked to Iraq and elsewhere. China has had a large Muslim (and once Christian and Jewish) minority for centuries, Islam is pretty well integrated in the society.

Under the Cultural Revolution all religion was repressed, particularly the "native" ones (buddhism, daoism...). Now religion is only suppressed if the (local, central) government consider it a threat, in which case it can be be brutally so. Relatively to Western governments Chinese policing sometimes seem rather timid and slow, but at some point a decision is made and they come down much harder than Western police would. I think the Western approach is more effective, and China can learn a lot from the West.

As a matter of interest and if you can reply without being locked up, is China still communist and, as a related question would you think that communism is a religion?

Well, I have fled the country, so to speak. A couple 777s enabled my flights to Prague via the Islamic beacon of liberty, Dubai (UAE).

Even if I hadn't, having opinions on communism and the current government's adherence to it carries little risk. Like I have said before, standing between a powerful person and his prospect of profit carries a considerable risk, and especially recently (last couple years) causing or being a disturbance to the social harmony can have adverse reactions.

Talking politics is fairly harmless, unless you were in the position of actually doing something about it. Based on taxi drivers mouthing off, as they are quite happy to do, the Chinese government is seen as too soft. They are too willing to support poor people in regions like Africa and the US, and not willing enough to support poor people in their own country.

Not being a communist I wouldn't say if the Chinese system is communist, but most communists I'd guess would be quite vehement that it isn't. I don't consider communism a religion, though some religions, like Christianity, could be communist.

They are too willing to support poor people in regions like Africa and the US, and not willing enough to support poor people in their own country.

Now where did I hear that before? :right:

Not being a communist I wouldn't say if the Chinese system is communist, but most communists I'd guess would be quite vehement that it isn't.

No need to be a communist for that - what they're doing has not much to do with what Marx called 'communism'. Neither did anything all the other parties with 'communist' in their names did when they came to power.
What I never understood is this - these countries are considered 'communist' because the ruling parties have the term in their names. They also stick 'democratic' in their names yet somehow nobody takes their word for that one.

I don't consider communism a religion, though some religions, like Christianity, could be communist.

Christian Communism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism) was a thing long before Marx coined the term.

my Country almost  the Opposite of China .
if in China the Government so repressive about "religion" .
in here the Government so repressive about "Communism and atheism" .

allow me to tell some history of my country ..


the Founding father also the 1st President was a Marxist  , which influenced by Karl Marx and his Communism alot .
he even Create his own style of MArxism , that known as " Marhaenism ".
he also wellknown for his jargon " NASAKOM "   Nasionalis  ,  Agama ( religion )  ,  and Komunis .
and in the old day this state is  used to be -  Russian ,  and China Proxy . 

but in the Year 1966 , there are some events , that ended into incident - Genocide of over 2 million people that accussed or assumed as member of  PKI ( partij komunis Indonesia )  .
which suspected want to change the Five Principle of United States Republic of Indonesia , and the Constitution .


after that incident , the 1st president  resigned  .
to end the civil war , the 2nd President made some policies to choose one of Five official religions .
the Civil war ended , also ...
that is the Most Succesful "islamization" in Nusantara since hundred years trials .

and that is how Islam is the Majority religion in here .


the irony is , those that want to be a ruler of  a Nation will ride the Majority .

--to be continued  :drunk:

Our political leaders want to say how nice real Islam is and is a load of codswallop. Everywhere Islam immigrnants go they breed a built-in Jihad group mindset. Oh i know of "nice Muslims" but I don't take much notice of a relgion founded by a child molestor. As for Chrisitan Communsism that is an intellectual play word. Communism has to practice a one=party State to really exist so speaks almost for itself. Muslim and the word 'democracy' do not sit well tohether and we will get more of thes despicable gits murdering beheading and so on. What I think is remarkable still is what the minority Kurds have been doing. It is pathetic that we get millions coming here to Gt Britain and Europe, breed like flies and use modern equipment to blow us up. Here we keep getting Muslims arrested for planning mayhem and I have no time for the Muslim corner.

The London bombings were bad and so too was the World Trade Centre thing. Any time i see a playback it touches me because I had been to the top but I have to say for all the evil perpetuated it was not a real wide threat to the country - not the London thing. We should have kept ourselves away from what went on years ago in Muslim prehistoric countries and let them do each other in because interfering has only given them a great opportunity to tackle what they see as modern Crusaders. We bend over backwards to please Muslims and they still cannot use their grey cells. Disliking a foreign policy leads to Jihad training and can I remind that many of these same scumbags are in higher education. As I say democracy and Islam do not combine.

One good reason to explore Mars would be to put the damn lot of them there to live and what a difference that would make!  :knight:

One good reason to explore Mars would be to put the damn lot of them there to live and what a difference that would make!  :knight:

There's already a skull there! :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=saL0Xe5eGTw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=saL0Xe5eGTw)

And also at the breakaway Revolution  the Freemasons were very involved amongst those in Boston hence the symbolism on the banknote. . There will be those who remember practically the time the "Un-American Activities" bunch were going hell for leather. Kind of contradicted the idea of freedom of opinion or anything else didn't it? Paranoia is seemingly a fundamental aspect of the way of life and seemingly deep enough rooted for it to have millions of people involved in such emotion. Many decades ago on the near middle of the 20th century we even had the Communist Party with representation through an MP. Wouldn't happen now because they are a small and non-influential lot but that IS democracy. I have little time for political extremism however we practiced the principles of freedom and without a written constitution or the groaning history over the pond. Anyway back to the starting line.

We have a large Muslim population in the 10 figures and up here in the northern part of the Kigdom (Scotland for ex-colonists!) we get little or no trouble but boy oh boy things are much different in England. Cities and towns all but taken over, Pakistani grooming gangs that authorities have grudgingly have had to admit are a particular problem. Young Muslims down there seem rather easy to talk into negative situations and Jihad. Many taking part in the Middle East are from good education so there is something flawed in the religious make-up. Every so often we have case after case popping up on Muslims arrested for planning something. Just this week another three for planning to get any British citizen and behead them.

I can just about tolerate "moderate Muslims but the more that sect grows the more in proportion are violent. Our once traditional immigration welcome has been all but shattered and people have to note that a small island can only take in so many.As I have previously stated I have little time for Islam especially when it claims to be Godly and as the man who founded it was a damn child molester freak.  So all those loiberal minded nincompoops who respect the right of Islam oddly ignore this. The future is bleak and the government has been in a semi high security level for ages. Tells you something very practical.

The attacker, who was killed in a gun battle inside parliament, was named as Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, a Canadian-born 32-year-old.

Yes, blood may flow.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9rFprD_Qf4[/video]

Yes terrorists do walk amongst them and you are a perfect example (note folks his own admission. Hios IRA pals he supports killed innocents including men, women and children even in their own communties and he comes on here with drivel about principles? Duh  :mad:

It has a parallel with what many Brits (including me by the way) felt about the Irish Terrorist Campaign in Northern Ireland. with their self-styled "war" against the N.I. status-quo. At a certain point one has to, I believe, stop treating terrorists like criminals and treat them as enemy combatants subject to the extremes of counter force that happen in wartime.

Right cure for each ailment. The attacks the topic starter refer to are more akin to school shootings, by similar malcontents finding it better to kill others than just themselves. A military response to that wouldn't just be pointless, it would reward the would-be killer, telling him that he's on the right path.

On the other side of the spectrum you'd find military organisations like ISIL that have aligned themselves with one part of a civil war conflict. Extracting them from that would be a major challenge, and police work would be pointless for that job (though crucial together with military forces in providing security for the civil population).

You might want to go to Global Terrorism Index 2014 (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/Global%20Terrorism%20Index%20Report%202014_0.pdf) for a look at terrorism today (well, terrorism last year, but close enough). Some numbers:

82% of people killed in terrorist attacks were in just five countries:

• Iraq


• Afghanistan


• Pakistan


• Nigeria


• Syria

The other 18% were in 55 other countries. 27 more countries had terrorist attacks with no fatalities, and 75 countries had no terrorist incidents.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.philstar.com%2Fimages%2Fthe-philippine-star%2Fheadlines%2F20141120%2Fterrorism-chart-1.jpg&hash=80d302e9c386a340fbc64b1703a28e43" rel="cached" data-hash="80d302e9c386a340fbc64b1703a28e43" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://media.philstar.com/images/the-philippine-star/headlines/20141120/terrorism-chart-1.jpg)

Though until 2003 these five countries had fairly little terrorism, after that they have dominated the statistics.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thestar.com.my%2F%7E%2Fmedia%2FImages%2FTSOL%2FPhotos-Gallery%2FNation%2F2014%2F11%2F19%2FGlobal%2520Terrorism%2520Index%2520deaths%2520from%2520terrorism%2520timeline.ashx%2F&hash=28b0cca1e6bf95707b788d280503b126" rel="cached" data-hash="28b0cca1e6bf95707b788d280503b126" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.thestar.com.my/~/media/Images/TSOL/Photos-Gallery/Nation/2014/11/19/Global%20Terrorism%20Index%20deaths%20from%20terrorism%20timeline.ashx/)

This thread needs more maps. Impact of terrorism:

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dawn.com%2Flarge%2F2014%2F11%2F546b2073a7026.jpg%3Fr%3D725182819&hash=0910fa2be81874330482d1c4a07dc33e" rel="cached" data-hash="0910fa2be81874330482d1c4a07dc33e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.dawn.com/large/2014/11/546b2073a7026.jpg?r=725182819)


Terrorist incidents map 2000-2013, showing fatalities.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.zmescience.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F11%2Fterrorism-map.png&hash=867b699f7772cb0e48aea5bbf6e78219" rel="cached" data-hash="867b699f7772cb0e48aea5bbf6e78219" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/terrorism-map.png)


These were not all by islamist groups, but for this period viewed by fatalities, most were. Nationalist/separatist groups have been deadlier, but lately islamists have taken their fire.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwp.production.patheos.com%2Fblogs%2Fdanthropology%2Ffiles%2F2014%2F11%2FGT1-565x400.png&hash=09d59d2695903d74de007aa9dda009ae" rel="cached" data-hash="09d59d2695903d74de007aa9dda009ae" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/files/2014/11/GT1-565x400.png)

This is largely due to the four groups that have behind 66% of terrorist murders in 2013:

• Taliban


• Al Queda and associates


• ISIL


• Boko Haram

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8597/15654635990_842cceb38f_z.jpg)

(The grafitti on the above graph is due to the person publishing it had it in for the Indian Maoists; the uncluttered graph can be found in the original document (http://www.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/Global%20Terrorism%20Index%20Report%202014_0.pdf), page 49)[/list]

Terrorism is a sexy topic, 9/11 being a prime example...over 3,000 dead.

In 2012 10,322 people died in auto accidents in the US. Not sexy.

Projected gun deaths in the US in 2015...33,000. In 2011 there were 58 gun deaths in Britain. There is the factor of population size differences to consider, but the comparison is still stark.

Good points there but when you consider the accident figures they kind of put the terror deaths in a different complex and there wasn't going to be an invasion.

Publicity is the main aim for extremist holding hostages in a Sydney cafe, according to a leading terrorism expert.

That only heightens the "very real" danger to the people held at gunpoint inside the Lindt Chocolat Cafe in Martin Place, Professor Jeff Lewis from Melbourne's RMIT university said.

"The primary focus of these modern terrorism tactics is publicity," he said. "This is a classical tactic of political extremists...

"They want this thing broadcast across the planet.

"The fact that they might be causing harm to individuals is in some respects - I know this is a horrible thing to say - it's incidental to that major project of just being noticed, of just having their cause announced through the media.

"The longer the group has publicity, the closer they are to achieving their objectives. They'll want it to be as protracted as possible, they'll want to cause as much threat as possibly they can...and they'll run this until the publicity fades."

Hostages are being forced to hold an Islamic flag against the window of the Lindt Chocolat Cafe in Martin Place, which was stormed by at least one gunman on Monday morning. About 10 staff and customers are being held at gunpoint inside the cafe, initial reports suggest ...................... CONTINUED (http://www.theage.com.au/national/sydney-siege-publicity-main-aim-of-martin-place-lindt-cafe-hostage-drama-20141215-127epz.html)

There is speculation that this gunman might be retaliating to not being allowed to travel (passports being revoked to known extremists) to the Middle East to join up with his fellow jihadists in the Middle East.

If found to be valid, this may just be the 'tip of the iceberg' in Australia, & elsewhere from disgruntled, home-grown, radicalized wannabe terrorists.

interesting ...

i noticed in australia ,  there are many immigrants from mid-east .

once , some of them are dumped off  in Indonesians , At sumatra Island .

and they insist they want to go to Australia , rather than Stay at indonesia .
They even do not Want to eat Local Food ( Masakan Padang ) But more prefer KFC ( kentucky Fried Chicken )


not sure how their Mind pattern goes  , but i guess their interest is only in Wealthy Country .

where there are Guarantees to living well .

But in the other side , any country that become their  favorites migration Spot ,  also become a target of terrorism .
UK , Australia , etc .

Of course , relating Between Immigrants from Mid-east With Terrorrism may be absurd .
or maybe not ..



i also dare to assumes if those Extremist are also suffered for mental illness .

Mostly is Schizophrenia .

So , if those country open Their Door for immigrants.
IMHO they Should also have a Better Mental Health Care Network  .

if not , that just will become a time Bomb  .

and when triggered , it will just like in this Lindt cafe issues .


-- Some one with mental health issues , will never Stop until The people nor The World  Follow their Way .

#illridewithyou: hashtag offers solidarity with Sydney's Muslims after cafe siege (http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/dec/15/illridewithyou-hashtag-offers-solidarity-to-sydneys-muslims-after-cafe-siege)

After concerns that people wearing Islamic dress could be harassed, Sydney locals have been using Twitter to offer to travel with them

With hostages still in danger and central Sydney in lockdown, residents have turned to social media to spread a message of tolerance.

Locals have became concerned about the potential for rising intolerance or aggression towards people wearing religious dress.

One woman started what soon blossomed into a social media campaign to stand in solidarity with the city’s Muslims.

That video was NOT the police commissioner but the Federal Prime Minister (!)

Anyway what a load of cobblers about identifying with Muslims who may be irked by a response.  Someone said the same thing over here bout sitting with someone on a train or bus wearing the hiding clothes stuff. Everywhere across Europe and GB where there are large settlements of Muslims we continually get volunteers  flying off to fight for terrorists. And the more that community grows because the breed like rabbits them worse it proportionately gets. One poll here showed around 25% leaning towards militancy amongst the young so what a future.. Occasionally you will get moderate Muslims who speak out or some modern group but it is far too sporadic. Too much of the mainstream keeps it's head down. It is a tradition that does not effectively integrate - we are unbelievers and as a faith it certainly does not sit easy with democracy and far too many Muslims are too careful to admit that one. Instead they come here moan about not being respected but use the benefits system well, etc.

Anyway aS I have always stated it is a false faith altogether having been founded by a child molester who married the kid. For him to think that makes him like Moses or a prophet of God is almost laughable if it wasn't so sick. A loving God would have him?? Down in England it is a lot worse as it is a bigger place than here and so many places have changed out of all recognition. Too many excuses are made for Islam and there is so much friction being caused by millions of them across Europe.

Sir Pardon my attitude , i maybe young .

but i can say becareful using words " we are unbelievers " etc .

since in the Perspective of  Fundamentalist Psychotic Religions Zealot .

the unbeliever = Kafir .

And as Kafir those Blood is Halal --> Licensed to kill .

if you want to Live , Pay taxes ( Jizyah )  .

yes it is like Gangsters , but soon or later , Your People have to deal with Those insanity .

Frankly, I have a dim view of hashtag activism, though pointless forum bluster has no positive role at all.

The deranged and the criminal are underutilised resources, but thanks to the Internet they need not be so.

Ballyhoo stuff from both of you. We are thought of as unbelievers and the militant Islamist throw it at us in a sneering and debilitating way in the same way that nigger word is used elsewhere.  The so-called liberal mindset here is typical. Islam grows at a fantastic pace in Europe and my country. In Germany street parades are taking place under a title of saving Europe from Islam and so on. Whether the would-be open minds get in a flutter about the poor Muslims is pointless because the same people wouldn't live in their communities. Town after town changes out of all recognition, crime figures are up to the point of many immigrants and that includes Muslims. They don't integrate nor want to. They demand things which flies in the face of the practical which is that Islam and democracy are not positive bedfellows.  :irked:

The wonderful know-it-alls will sit in their cumfy homes in nice suburbs and wax lyrical about how poor Muslims are getting difficulties. Actually it is the Muslims who cause difficulties by producing a streat of terrorists, make demands and trying to show they are the fal guys whilst whispering that derogatory slang word for us under the proverbial breath. Europe is gradually building a tinder box with millions of them.

Many of us may well not see it but Europe will melt into conflagration this century once Islam becomes the dominant lot.

i think the Extremists patterns is always same .

if in English  , it is holy war against the  infidel .
in this case , everyone that do not agree with those groups = infidels

at this point , i do not dare to make any assumptions about Histories of Europe since i do not live there .

Well anyway in the real world in the future and by the end of this century, Europe will descend into a terrible and frightening hell hole. The eight million or so Muslims in it will have well mushroomed due to their birth rate giving plenty of fighters when the place explodes in their take over attempt.

Well anyway in the real world in the future and by the end of this century, Europe will descend into a terrible and frightening hell hole. The eight million or so Muslims in it will have well mushroomed due to their birth rate giving plenty of fighters when the place explodes in their take over attempt.

How will the innocent of Europe defend themselves?

Well, if RJ has his way they'll have to use sticks, stones, & their bare knuckles because RJ is  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZLw3y1X.png&hash=cca72f2c4c906622b391d953ea61f721" rel="cached" data-hash="cca72f2c4c906622b391d953ea61f721" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/ZLw3y1X.png)  frightened by big, bad, scarey guns. 

Like lambs to the slaughter they will be, thanks to RJ & other socially obsessed anti-firearm Europeans.

some says , German is the center of The World .
if want to make the World Nervous , just sneezes in Berlin .

so let's see the sollutions from germany , to   Deal  with that Neo-NAzism and The Rise of Neo Fascism  With  different Flags .   :beard:

Coming from a country that has an increasing mental age problem (but easy to get a headshrinker due to the size of that health side) kind of expected. Laughable too mind you considering he was supporting terrorts here and we are part of Europe.  Our biggest problem is that we are a democracy you folk over the water lost yours a while back and will gradually become a Police State. If you were a bit nearer you would ge loaded with these Islamist hordes. However the way things are going for you whities in the ex-colonies within the next decade or so you will be a minority and in a nation full of race  problems will have your own Armageddon.

You're living in fantasy land.

You're living in fantasy land.

How can you tell?
Is there any part of that latest effusion that you understand?

It is too direct for you that is the main trouble as the tradition in the Opera then this corner is for a wee bunch of self-styled intellectuals want to show off.  Where was i wrong? It is known that the long existing pale face people across there ARE going to be the minority for example and that brings not only social and racial tensions but every part of society will be effected. Hurry tt92 I think i hear the primary school bell ringing.

Ah thank you dear jimbro for that description. As the ex-colonies strain financially across the globe and too many especially Republicans living in fantasy land I much appreciate you donating that one usual self aclaim away (ps. Don't laet the Gestapo, oops CIA know). Very kind pf you and quite a step for an American to make "Butler, a crate of Irn Bru to the settler and new Kentuckian."

 ???

???

You're a silent grammar Nazi, aren't you?
(https://mastersarge.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/05-grammar-nazi.jpg)

No he is not so much that but a self styled would-be intellectual and do hope he can be more practical instead of unwittingly head for buffoonery. He doesn't like anything to straightforwardly simple as that detracts from his intellect self assessing.  What he cannot properly answer he haughtily dismisses as if he is a  person above the ordinary folk! His answers show the point and I am surprised not to see a whole batch of selfies on here! Anyway he won't upset me as he is unintentionally amusing and that is fine.  :happy:

I am surprised not to see a whole batch of selfies on here!

Speaking of selfies, how about this Daddy Warbucks look-alike?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/avs/avatar_29_1419408427.png)

Will not dwell on the looking an age deviance and concentrate rather on positivity. He looks like a retired subtle character who could have been a personality in alternative comedy, spurious newspaper columnist, sketch writer.

Nobody will believe this one...

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Two Saudi women detained for nearly a month after they defied edicts that prohibit women from driving were referred on Thursday to a court established to try terrorism cases, several people close to the defendants said.

But it can be checked out in today's New York Times @...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/26/world/middleeast/saudi-antiterrorism-court-to-try-women-held-for-driving.html?ref=world (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/26/world/middleeast/saudi-antiterrorism-court-to-try-women-held-for-driving.html?ref=world)

Nobody will believe this one...

Nothing special for not to be believed.
Our dear Saudi friends and allies are as good if not even better at chopping heads publicly as the IS guys.
The only difference is that one of them are our official friends while the others are not.

I agree that both are to condemned.

I wonder what the underlying common factor might be.

I agree that both are to condemned.

You are right - theoretically at least.

Hypocrisy is part of human nature and can heighten ad absurdum.
The same applies to terrorists.
There are good terrorists, those who are useful for our geostrategic interests (call them moderate or freedom fighters) and bad terrorists, those who don't serve our geostrategic interests.

I agree that both are to condemned.

I wonder what the underlying common factor might be.

Hmm. Nature or Nurture? It is no longer fashionable to suggest that they might be Untermenschen. Perhaps they have some common religious beliefs.

Nothing special for not to be believed.
Our dear Saudi friends and allies are as good if not even better at chopping heads publicly as the IS guys.
The only difference is that one of them are our official friends while the others are not.

That is an astonishingly ridiculous statement. Yes, Saudi Arabia has a high number of executions, 79 last year, twice the number of USA (39), for serious crime like drug smuggling and witchcraft. 79 people killed in what in Saudi Arabia passes for due process (strongly influenced by money and power). That is not particularly good, but seriously "Saudi Arabia beheads people, IS beheads people, thus SA is as least as bad killers as IS"?

I could include the IS rap sheet, but (1) it shouldn't be necessary and (2) it would be off-topic here, but not in the designated thread (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?topic=511.0). This thread is (presumably) about autonomous small groups of killers or single killers, the Islamist versions of McVeigh and Breivik.

There are good terrorists, those who are useful for our geostrategic interests (call them moderate or freedom fighters) and bad terrorists, those who don't serve our geostrategic interests.

Is a term like "freedom fighter" even used anymore since the Wall fell? I've seen words like "guerrillas" my entire life, "freedom fighter" being some kind of quaint Cold War relic that primarily refers to guerrillas opposing oppressive communist regimes. Perhaps it's simply that the militants tend to instill their own dictatorship after emerging victoriously, but let's not forget that some insurgents never use the language of freedom at all. Some rather explicitly want to install dictatorships and/or theocracies. As such the term "freedom fighter" seems more naive than meaningless per se. A pretty common way to distinguish between "regular" insurgents and terrorists is whether or not they make a point of attacking non-combatants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-combatant). So,

a. Hamas targeting Israeli soldiers is probably not terrorism, depending a bit on the specifics including e.g. treatment of prisoners.
b. Hamas targeting Israeli citizens is definitely terrorism.

Ergo, Hamas is a terrorist organization, clear as day. It's only when b is absent that things might get a bit muddier. In my experience, b is always present when calling something a terrorist organization.

Some time ago took the trouble to struggle through the Geneva Convention on he garment of Prisoners,; maybe I should repeat the exercise, which was done in the context of Guantanamo Bay, of mavbe not because it's hard work.

My recollection is that it's a document reflecting "old fashioned" standard (not that such is necessarily bad) and the bottom line seemed basically to be that if you wore uniform you ere covered by the convention, otherwise not.

I suspect that there is something similar in age for the definition of terrorist, at least as far as internationally agreements are concerned.

Other than that G.Bush's definition seems to apply - you're either for us or against us. 

That is an astonishingly ridiculous statement.

When It Comes to Beheadings, ISIS Has Nothing Over Saudi Arabia (http://www.newsweek.com/2014/10/24/when-it-comes-beheadings-isis-has-nothing-over-saudi-arabia-277385.html?piano_d=1)

BTW, more than 2,000 people were executed in Saudi Arabia between 1985 and 2013.

It's no less ridiculous coming from a Newsweek journalist. Sure, the death penalty is hard to justify, beheading is not a good method of execution, and the Saudi justice is deficient. In all a good case undermined by ludicrous hyperbole. No, everything doesn't have to be compared with Holocaust or other crimes against humanity to get the point through that it is bad.

That's odd. "Beheading is not a good method of execution". Hmmm, you mean it doesn't always work? How did I miss those execution by beheadings that failed to kill the condemned person?

Beheadings don't always work as intended, no. Killing somebody isn't that challenging when you have somebody at your mercy. A plastic bag is sufficient. The issue is how to kill. It isn't easy even for an experienced executioner to make a clean kill with a sword or an axe. That's why modern technology invented the guilliotine, as machines are better at killing people.

[video]http://youtu.be/lEMaOW_Vpnc[/video]

Quote from: Jimbro3738 on 2014-12-26, 09:03:08

Nobody will believe this one...

Nothing special for not to be believed.
Our dear Saudi friends and allies are as good if not even better at chopping heads publicly as the IS guys.
The only difference is that one of them are our official friends while the others are not.

Maybe the best way to label these terrorist attacks is mini-warfare, as opposed to the more horrendous example of the bombing of Dresden.

Interesting angle to categorise capital punishment as an act of terrorism/mini-warfare.

Unless you meant the thread start topic of solo/small group murder/crime sprees. There are always rebels looking for a cause to do mayhem, and there are people to take advantage of that. Supply and demand.

Our dear Saudi friends and allies are as good if not even better at chopping heads publicly

it seems like Punish and reward for certain purposes .

an ancient methode , but usually always works .

Maybe the best way to label these terrorist attacks is mini-warfare, as opposed to the more horrendous example of the bombing of Dresden.

BTW,
the bombing of Dresden had no influence on the outcome of WWII. Historians telling the opposite are lying in an attempt to justify that war crime. Even the number of victims were oficially retouched.
At the time of the bombings Germany has already lost the war. It was the obsession of a Briton to fry as many Germans as possible and the more pragmatic reason of the US to warn Stalin. The Soviets who entered Dresden short after the bombings were indeed impressed...

Dresden was a major transportation, communications and manufacturing hub. To claim it was of no military significance is a bunch of hooey. And who knew what the Germans were still capable of anyway? They'd just scared the wits out of the Allied forces with the Ardennes counteroffensive, while my father was starving (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_famine_of_1944). Without the bombing of Dresden, requested by the Soviets I might add, who knows what kind of eastern counteroffensive might've been put into operation. That we know in hindsight that another Ardennes offensive was probably out of the question isn't terribly relevant. Looking back it's much too easy to say that Hitler committed suicide only three months later.

There is a problem with the Dresden bombing: hardly any attempts were made to avoid civilian targets. Combined with Hamburg, but particularly Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there is really no need to grasp at straws to paint your picture of America as Genghis Khan incarnate.

My earliest memories as a 2 or 3 year old was talking shelter in the steel "shelter" we had in our living room.

It would not have helped much  I suspect but we spent a lot of time there sheltering from the German bombers as they came over.


fortunately no bomb came to our home, but there were a lot of places that did get bombed in the UK, and those bombs were not iaselective either.

I can tut-tut with the best of them about indiscriminate bombing, can't get to worked up about Dresden I'm afraid.

We have this saying:

"What goes around comes around".

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam_Blitz

I can tut-tut with the best of them about indiscriminate bombing, can't get to worked up about Dresden I'm afraid.

I'm more inclined to say 'MANY THANKS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operation_Manna_-_Many_Thanks_In_Tulips.jpg)'.

(http://[/url)

fortunately no bomb came to our home, but there were a lot of places that did get bombed in the UK, and those bombs were not iaselective either.

I can tut-tut with the best of them about indiscriminate bombing, can't get to worked up about Dresden I'm afraid.

We have this saying:

"What goes around comes around".

I think it is fair to say that none of the parties in WWII were overly concerned with civilian casualties of their enemies (maybe to a slight degree the Americans in Europe, but not to a degree that it mattered).

As for the comings and goings around, Britain bombed Germany before Germany bombed Britain, and gave more than they received. I'd rather wish they didn't bomb Dresden, though that might have led to increased Czech casualties, but in any case Dresden is nicely reconstructed after the reunification of Germany.

It is a city worth visiting, PEGIDA (http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/12/26/dresden-pegida-politics.html) notwithstanding (moving us neatly back on topic).

Dresden was a major transportation, communications and manufacturing hub.

You are only parroting (like some historians) the US lie that the bombings were neccessary. Good luck with that.
Dresden was of little if no military importance. Besides, the extensive industrial complex haven't been even touched during the bombing. Not even military barracks were bombed but the military hospital. The target of the bombing was the overpopulated city center. You can't twist this no matter how hard you'd try! Overpopulated city because of the more than 600.000 German refugees from the eastern territories. They've fled to Dresden in the general believe that a city with no military importance won't get bombed...

Without the bombing of Dresden, requested by the Soviets I might add,...

Another attemt to whitewash the war crime is the unproven allegation that Stalin asked for it. Since Stalin is the bad guy anyway, let us try to give him complicity. Very clever...

Before ww2, germans learned a strange brand of history.
It seems to be happening again.

@tt92
You seem to be an expert for what Germans have learned before WWII and after.
Let's hope you're as expert in the history of the place you are living...

Tad bit of arm-chair quarterbacking going on.

You can't twist this no matter how hard you'd try!

It's easier for an octopus to get all twisted up. 

Personally, I would have hoped that we would have developed the A Bomb sooner so to drop it on those Goose Steppin' Krauts a few times, instead of eventually only having the pleasure of dispatching them squinty eyed Japs later on.

Who knows, that might have saved many more thousands of American troops, & some Japs (as if I could care less) too.



Back on topic:

Not since 9/11 has there been year in which the Religion of Peace Islam distinguished itself as it did in 2014.  The fruit of Muslim immigration began to appear in Canada and Australia, and the eagerly anticipated revival of the caliphate introduced standards of brutality to the 21st century that even gave al-Qaeda the willies.

The most shocking story of the year may be the ongoing rape, forced conversion and open selling of minority women and
children for sex slavery in the name of Allah - as the world looks on.

  * Security bosses have withdrawn Royal Guards from posts outside palaces amid fears of a 'lone wolf' terror attack

   * Elite soldiers of the Queen's Guard no longer allowed on sentry duty alone and are accompanied by armed police

  * But the measures have been described as a ‘retreat’ for the Guards, known the world over for their bearskin caps

   * Changes confirmed at sites including Clarence House, St James’s Palace, Windsor Castle and Horse Guards Parade

..........CONTINUED HERE............. (http://dailym.ai/1xsVfTe)

bombings were neccessary

i sometimes also can not understand why Murica loves to Bombing .
does that  make sense ,   peace can be achieved by Bombing certain areas  ?.
but it works for Japan didnt it ?

and why Murica A-bombs Cities with no military values .
i think the pattern is same with , why terrorists bombing civilians .
not Pentagon , nor military departments .

my assumption,  it is to planted "Fear " .

Jihadis are proven cowards, so they will hit the easiest targets, where the have virtually unfettered access, & where the media attention would probably be the most favorable to their cause.

Time for British authorities to practice more appeasement and capitulation.

“Terrorist chiefs issue ‘lone wolf’ threat to British Airways and EasyJet,” by Russell Myers, Mirror, December 28, 2014:

    Terrorist overlords have ordered aspiring jihadists to bomb EasyJet and British Airways flights.

    Al-Qaeda chiefs want “lone wolf” bombers to hit the UK airlines to get widespread publicity and “crush the enemy’s economy”.

    The chilling threat emerged in the terror group’s online publication, Inspire.

    The gang says such attacks on the global brands would be useful as a means of securing widespread media headlines and “crushing the enemy’s economy”.

    The magazine, released on Christmas Eve, names British Airways because it is the ‘flag carrier airline of the United Kingdom’ and the largest airline by number of planes.

    Budget carrier EasyJet is equally targeted because it “is a low cost carrier, hence has a large number of passengers.”

    Jihadists are instructed to identify “airports with the least security measures” and take their inspiration from Umar Farouk Abdulmuttalab, the “Underpants Bomber” who tried and failed to blow up a plane bound for Detroit from Amsterdam on Christmas Day 2009 with a homemade bomb hidden in his underwear bomb.

    He is now serving a life sentence in the US for the attack.

    The first issue of Inspire, published in 2010, contained a notorious explosives guide called Make a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom.

    The manual was suspected to have been the template for explosives which killed three and injured more than 250 in last year’s Boston Marathon bombings….........

IMHO Cowards is not a right term for that kind of action .
since they have balls to fight kafirs / infidels .

i think idiot is more correct .

some one that smart enough aint fight with something stronger  .
but an idiot will still fight even they know they aint win , nor make themself loosing their Lifes .

idiocy + balls ( ability to ignore options ) =   Catastrophe .

not to mention..
AFAIK..  Scientifically , Homosapiens will still using Fight or Flight due to Amygdala Hijack .
it seems , this kind of issues will remain , until undefined times .

btw , anyone have ideas to Universally   prevent Charlatans to produce more idiots ?

.

You are only parroting (like some historians) the US lie that the bombings were neccessary. Good luck with that.

Again, just because the bombings may not have been necessary doesn't mean they may not have reasonably appeared necessary at the time. That much is basic logic and it has nothing to do with any historians.

In February 1945 the war wasn't nearly over. It was not that long after the spectacular failure of Operation Market Garden, and the Ardennes offensive proved Germany was still quite capable. In September '44 the war was almost over. In February '45 the war might easily have lasted another year.* We know now that as usual Hitler's operational involvement in strategic planning prevented Germany from emerging victoriously from the Battle of the Bulge — thank God for that corporal's megalomania — and that the failure of the offensive caused the bulk of Germany's most elite troops to be taken as POW. With emphasis on now.

* The German army in the Netherlands was still in very good condition when it capitulated on May 5, 1945. And in fact the German army occupied my island of birth until May 20, in spite of liberation day being celebrated on May 5. In short, the situation in May 1945 wasn't terribly different from the situation in September 1944, except for Hitler's death. Slow down the Soviet advance in Silesia (i.e. don't bomb Dresden) and who knows how much longer until Hitler committed suicide…

Dresden was of little if no military importance. Besides, the extensive industrial complex (emphasis added)

Umm… okay then. But aside from this contradiction, you should be well aware that factories used to be spread throughout inner cities, including big names like Zeiss but also e.g. the production of bodies for V1s took place in the inner city's workshops. This is not America, with its colonial Dutch well-planned cities with their clearly designated industrial areas. You have this extremely odd habit of speaking of Europe as if it were America.

haven't been even touched during the bombing. Not even military barracks were bombed but the military hospital. The target of the bombing was the overpopulated city center. You can't twist this no matter how hard you'd try!

That's essentially what I said, so I think it's you who's a bit twisted. The policy of trying to avoid civilian targets had already been abandoned in 1942 or 1943 at the latest. I don't consider that a good thing, but it also wasn't a war crime by the rules of the time. One is forced to admit that neither were the bombings of e.g. Rotterdam, Coventry, London and Antwerp.

Kassel was bombed in 1943. 10,000 dead. Is that or countless other examples really that different from Dresden? In hindsight it's clear that Germany had already lost the war by then, with or without bombings. The bombings were to some extent just a psychological means of showing that Germany proper could actually be hit. In hindsight we now know that German arms production reached an all time high in '44/'45 in spite of the bombings. At the same time, most bombings up to and including Dresden did very much hamper Germany's infrastructure and manufacturing capabilities** and as such save Allied lives. Or to put it a different way, German non-combatants were considered a fair exchange for Allied soldiers' lives, which happens to include Soviet soldiers.

You implied that Dresden hadn't been bombed before because it was of no military importance, but basic logic isn't too friendly to that argument either for two reasons. First, cities like Berlin and Dresden were at the very edge of the range of the bombers. Given a choice between Dresden and Berlin, you go for Berlin first. Second, even if Dresden weren't of much military importance, its sheer existence as an unharmed city would make it so. It appears as if you fixate on Dresden just because there were a few American bombers involved, which somehow makes you happily repeat Goebbels' press releases.

** I know this looks like a contradiction, but having to repair or move existing factories takes attention away from other things like upgrading them.

Another attemt to whitewash the war crime is the unproven allegation that Stalin asked for it. Since Stalin is the bad guy anyway, let us try to give him complicity. Very clever...

How on earth would something be whitewashed through saying we did it 'cause Stalin (???) asked? Btw, I always thought it was general Antonov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksei_Antonov).

i sometimes also can not understand why Murica loves to Bombing .
does that  make sense ,   peace can be achieved by Bombing certain areas  ?.
but it works for Japan didnt it ?

and why Murica A-bombs Cities with no military values .
i think the pattern is same with , why terrorists bombing civilians .
not Pentagon , nor military departments .

my assumption,  it is to planted "Fear " .

For the record, the bombing of Germany was primarily executed and coordinated by the RAF, later with assistance from the USAF.

I guess Sparta didn't refer to Europe/Germany.

For the record, the bombing of Germany was primarily executed and coordinated by the RAF

Most germans would probably think of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction#List_of_assaults_attributed_to_the_RAF) when they see 'bombing' and 'RAF' in one sentence :right:

my assumption,  it is to planted "Fear " .

No. To break the hold Imperial power and religious belief held. They threw themselves off cliffs by the thousands when faced with defeat due to those influences. Fear seems a pointless tool for that. You need acceptance that those deeply held beliefs are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saipan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saipan)

Emperor Hirohito personally found the threat of defection of Japanese civilians disturbing.[12] Much of the community was of low caste, and there was a risk that live civilians would be surprised by generous U.S. treatment. Native Japanese sympathizers would hand the Americans a powerful propaganda weapon to subvert the "fighting spirit" of Japan in radio broadcasts. At the end of June, Hirohito sent out an imperial order encouraging the civilians of Saipan to commit suicide.[12] The order authorized the commander of Saipan to promise civilians who died there an equal spiritual status in the afterlife with those of soldiers perishing in combat.

How many lives did those bombs save? That's significant. Those bombs did their job so well nukes have never been used again and even the threat they might was a war in its self. Japan was rebuilt. So even lessons or tragedies of the first World War were paid in full. Just as WWII has paid the way for the morals everyone holds so sacred today. But you can't judge those times by the lessons learned from them.

I guess Sparta didn't refer to Europe/Germany.

I heard a statistic about Vietnam once compared to WW2, but I can't remember the specifics nor did I verify its accuracy at the time. It was something like every week or month they dropped as many bombs (or kilotons?) as through the whole of WW2.

Quote from: Frenzie on 2014-12-29, 12:05:17

For the record, the bombing of Germany was primarily executed and coordinated by the RAF

Most germans would probably think of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_Faction#List_of_assaults_attributed_to_the_RAF) when they see 'bombing' and 'RAF' in one sentence :right:

Yeah, I'm well familiar with the acronym, although it's not the first association in my mind.

How many lives did those bombs save? That's significant. Those bombs did their job so well nukes have never been used again and even the threat they might was a war in its self. Japan was rebuilt. So even lessons or tragedies of the first World War were paid in full. Just as WWII has paid the way for the morals everyone holds so sacred today. But you can't judge those times by the lessons learned from them.

I'm not sure that line of reasoning applies for Nagasaki. In any case, once more I think it's unfair to treat this from our present-day "omniscient" perspective. The Japanese government at the time was determined to make peace with the Allies even if it meant doing it on the Allies' terms. They were pretty much only keeping up appearances for the army, the navy, and the Americans. With hindsight you might therefore say that Japan was probably going to surrender unconditionally pretty soon either way and any justification disappears like snow before the sun. The thing is, of course, this wasn't known outside of a select few top government officials even in Japan itself, making this kind of objection meaningless.

However, I do think valid possible objections are why not a warning shot of sorts first, on top of which why it was necessary to bomb Nagasaki as well. Of course, I say this in near-complete ignorance of the consequences of bushido. I imagine they took great care to query all of the relevant cultural experts.

Fear seems a pointless tool for that

it is always works .

even the Bushido , calmed their aggressivity .

intended or unintended , Muricans even created new kind of Phobia .
Nucleomituphobia.

amygdala hijack brah, Fight or flee.
since 200.000 years ago .
as far as i know.
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mememaker.net%2Fstatic%2Fimages%2Ftemplates%2F1732366.jpg&hash=72cde9879fd46067a95717a887b4476e" rel="cached" data-hash="72cde9879fd46067a95717a887b4476e" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/templates/1732366.jpg)

However, I do think valid possible objections are why not a warning shot of sorts first, on top of which why it was necessary to bomb Nagasaki as well. Of course, I say this in near-complete ignorance of the consequences of bushido. I imagine they took great care to query all of the relevant cultural experts.

Regarding warnings of conventional bombing- "Japanese regarded the leaflet messages as truthful, but anyone who was caught in possession of one was arrested."

Not something the US would of known but we are cheating a bit. Mostly tho, they only had two. No assurances they even worked, both were different. But there was no sign of capitulation after the first and the only terms they ever offered involved no occupation. No bueno after they surprise attack during peace talks.

Japan neighbour is china .
when they said "Peace " .
it seems  it mean , they will Build New Power to strike back .

that is the 36th strategy from the 36 strategems .

i dont think Japan didn't use that War stratagems in their military .
nor Muricans did not aware with that tricks .
in my opinion , Muricans  want to make sure japs is Surrendered ( in the real term ) .

with  A-bomb them .

Sorry my replies are getting brief, I've gotta start this day eventually...

There was a change in presidents to consider and It was long decided anything less than unconditional was likely a prelude to another conflict. Pushing the war to an end before Russia could make a mess of it all was also wise. You don't tip your hat with a warning when you only have two (the number it took for the results desired btw) weapons that are no sure thing especially after they know how you'll deliver it and how vital it is they stop it. They did pick military targets and responded with what was available with the best chance of results. Such was the time. To suggest Truman was eager to A-bomb Japan is short-sided and just plain wrong. The US didn't pick to bomb in Europe during the day, costing more airman's lives, to save some civilian casualties just to reject humanity as soon as they could kill untold more at once.

@Frenzie

The city was not a military target. It was known as a cultural center full of beautiful architecture with some buildings dating back a thousand years. Also, Dresden was undefended: no searchlights, no bursting flak. Dresden was a civilian target. The thing that is so shocking about Dresden is that they didn’t bomb it to destroy military infrastructure and help the war, it was purely to terrorize the German people.
source (http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/pile-bodies-awaits-cremation-bombing-dresden-1945/)

More than 700.000 phosphorus bombs. The casualties have been officially reduced to more than one-tenth of the real counted numbers in order to prevent anti-american resentiment among Germans after the war. Those are now the 'official' numbers in history books...

You are comparing the bombing of Kassel (10.000 deaths) with that of Dresden?
You could compare the bombing of Kassel with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well. Only problem, they are not realistic comparisons but fine for playing down war crimes.
BTW, are you aware that Dresden had more victims than Hiroshima?

And since you are from Europe and also can speak German, the short article below is from the Spiegel (19.06.1963). It's one of the very few articles which have escaped (self)-censorship, till now at least.
Sodom in Sachsen
LUFTKRIEG (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-45143910.html)

The city was not a military target. It was known as a cultural center full of beautiful architecture with some buildings dating back a thousand years. Also, Dresden was undefended: no searchlights, no bursting flak. Dresden was a civilian target. The thing that is so shocking about Dresden is that they didn’t bomb it to destroy military infrastructure and help the war, it was purely to terrorize the German people.
source (http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/pile-bodies-awaits-cremation-bombing-dresden-1945/)

Quoth Goebbels. The whole of Germany and its occupied territories was focused almost on one thing and one thing only: the German war effort. Dresden wasn't some kind of detached artistic paradise.

You could compare the bombing of Kassel with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well. Only problem, they are not realistic comparisons but fine for playing down war crimes.

Hardly. The exact opposite happens by focusing on Dresden just because the destruction was twice as large. Dresden was a large but not exceptional amount of bombs coupled with some (un)fortunate circumstances. Is Dresden one of the worst examples of a single bombing? Of course. But it really isn't fundamentally different from all of the other bombings that were occurring day in day out. For a mediocre treatment of the subject matter, see here (http://books.google.be/books?id=0MJCDZBbxJcC&lpg=PA352&pg=PA352#v=onepage&q&f=false). At the very least it gets the logic right. Its point of view is that Dresden wasn't really all that different, but the entire bombing operation was one large war crime. I'm not quite convinced that is an accurate thing to say within the context of WW2, but it's coherent.

And since you are from Europe and also can speak German, the short article below is from the Spiegel (19.06.1963). It's one of the very few articles which have escaped (self)-censorship, till now at least.
Sodom in Sachsen
LUFTKRIEG (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-45143910.html)

That article merely summarizes a widely discredited book by David Irving (http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/evans/6.html).

NAZI is not Germany , or is it ?
anyway that was a War .
Should Britain also Blame Germany too because NAZI bombard their land for more than 200 days ?


Well .. at least not all NAZI is terrifying .

he even apologize to the World .
(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fcdni.condenast.co.uk%2F642x390%2Fg_j%2FHugoBoss_GQ_02Oct12_pr_b.jpg&hash=53966d6ee4272f1ff64bf98e29ee8cd3" rel="cached" data-hash="53966d6ee4272f1ff64bf98e29ee8cd3" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/642x390/g_j/HugoBoss_GQ_02Oct12_pr_b.jpg)

Btw Krake  , your Whole argument is sounds like Appeal to emotion .

What is your agenda ? 

If Germany had not went all out to bomb non-military targets in Gt Britain then what happened to Nazi cities like Dresden would not have occurred. There were some very important historical buildings bombed in Britain. London had a dastardly bit of suffering and damage as did other cities like across the country but especially the capital. Belfast had horrific matters and next to my city the town of Clydebank was virtually all but flattened.

As for the thread the latest damnable matter regarding Islam is the moving back behind fences of palace guards and the regular added guarding of them by armed police officers. Just the latest nonsense because many Muslims are against foreign policies. We are constantly having to be concerned about security and this is the latest change to our traditions. Just shows that democracy and Islam I have always said  are not comfortable together and if these people cannot act like normal people they should get to heck out of here and go back to the duh thinking of their homelands. Across on mainland Europe semi-regular incidents are commonplace like France where several times people have been deliberately run over by cars. Places cannot simply go oin having to change their way of life because these juvenile minds want to change us.

democracy and Islam are not comfortable together

as i seen , they are love democracy so much , always using Democracy methodes , and want to Live in the principles of Democracy .
but they do not want to be called  as Democracy Fundamentalist , nor Democracist .

as if they want to be a capitalist , but do not want to be called as Capitalist .
nor they want to live in justice Principles , but do not want to be called as Socialist .

therefore , perhaps the most correct term for them is Hypocrisy-retard

If Germany had not went all out to bomb non-military targets in Gt Britain then what happened to Nazi cities like Dresden would not have occurred. There were some very important historical buildings bombed in Britain. London had a dastardly bit of suffering and damage as did other cities like across the country but especially the capital.

Nonsense. As mentioned Britain bombed Germany before Germany bombed Britain. More to the point, while you and Krake seem to agree that the bombing of Dresden was meaningless revenge, there were reasons for the bombing, maybe not sound ones. Finally, while the suffering in London would have been immense by today's standard, by the standards of WWII London got off very lightly.

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F79902000%2Fjpg%2F_79902376_79902375.jpg&hash=9246459cab11128574bb2561117c6e37" rel="cached" data-hash="9246459cab11128574bb2561117c6e37" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79902000/jpg/_79902376_79902375.jpg)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F79902000%2Fjpg%2F_79902384_79902383.jpg&hash=df296dadd46a839429f063c1462100ec" rel="cached" data-hash="df296dadd46a839429f063c1462100ec" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79902000/jpg/_79902384_79902383.jpg)

What planet do you come from jax?

It was Germany that went all out to destroy the civilian population here in Gt Britain so kind of different from that rather silly comment that we started the bombing - not in the way that Germany was to do. And the other silly nonsense is that bit about London not being that badly effected. Maybe all the large numbers of dead are just to be dismissed by misusing stats and a waffling time slot. Ridiculous stuff and nonsense. On top of that in the increased war situation the Luftwaffe were massive and a whole range of cities in England, Scotland, Ulster were terribly done to. Hitler reckoned that if he smashed the civilian population that Britain would cave in. And a passing comment also is that Dresden was also an important rail place.

Re the thread it is true that there are indigenous idiots (not many actually) convert to Islam then go bananas but the vast majority are traditional Muslims. All over Europe we are getting incidents and small wonder there are Germans out on the streets against the rise of Islam in Europe and interesting there is not that much news about such too. And yeah we all know there are decent Muslims (Schindler was a decent Nazi and so described!) but the more they breed and numbers grow the more Europe is heading in a difficult future.

I also pointed out that their religion does not gel with democracy and instead of taking proper part in the political process they decide to blow up, kill and maim. Some of the placards they use at their childish demonstrations are a disgrace and if members of the traditional population did the same they would get arrested. It is a growing thorn.

@rjhowie

You are as good at history as my neighbor's goldfish are. :)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLdHo0pP.png&hash=12200a8b1eb5d1be5a6fd79f3354fe47" rel="cached" data-hash="12200a8b1eb5d1be5a6fd79f3354fe47" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/LdHo0pP.png)

And a passing comment also is that Dresden was also an important rail place.

And the rails were crossing the city center. Aren't they?

Dresden was a war crime by all means targeting civilians, mainly women and children. The coward act was well planned in Nevada.
Ever heard of the secret project "German Village"? A special project to fry as many German civilians as possible.

A few words about it can be found in this article (http://www.spiegel.de/einestages/us-geheimprojekt-a-947518.html).
The article is in German, so it's not of much help for you.
If you bother, you may find related articles in English as well. Let's hope that not all of them have been taken down. Good luck!

war crime

every war is   Crime .
War is situation and condition where crime  is legalized .

btw , since you live in Führer land .
tell me more about der Führer want to slay  Sigmund Freud , anna freud , Einsten , etc.
and they are not civillians ?      .

on the other hand ,
every Bigotry and Zealotry From any Ideologies , -isms , etc .
used to have the same patern , it is  Death to the infidels - mode .

if there are differrences , mostly it is just the differences in language . :knight: .


and i can say ..
sometimes , a villain can be a hero .

in here ,  some group of   psychotic schizophrenic zealotry-bigotry militant    .
that from the unconsciousness mind  constantly hated the Juice .

der Führer is idolized, because of reasons ...

He slaughtered as many juice as possible .

Juice!?!

A few words about it can be found in this article.

Anybody interested in the article can use Google Translate to view it. Like the below.

" Build up Wegbomben: To test the effect of new incendiary in World War II, had the US Army in 1943 in the Utah desert recreate exact duplicates of the Berlin workers' dwellings. The creator of the top-secret "German Village" was a German architect."
===========================================
War by definition and practice is inhuman, or, perhaps, all too human. Some examples stand out as especially heinous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_concentration_camps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_concentration_camps)

Hiroshima. Nagasaki.

The NKVD also conducted the Katyn massacre, summarily executing over 20,000 Polish military officer prisoners in April and May 1940.

Juice!?!

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F054%2F435%2Fjuicese3.jpg%3F1276390490&hash=bd92a25ec467ea1f1d4a3c1cfed5ff8d" rel="cached" data-hash="bd92a25ec467ea1f1d4a3c1cfed5ff8d" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/054/435/juicese3.jpg?1276390490)

A few words about it can be found in this article (http://www.spiegel.de/einestages/us-geheimprojekt-a-947518.html).

Which, incidentally, supports my argument.

Nicht nur amerikanische Militärberater, auch die britischen Bündnispartner drängten daher auf einen Strategiewechsel. Die Royal Air Force selbst hatte bereits 1942 damit begonnen, neben industriellen auch zivile Ziele in Deutschland anzugreifen. Auf Empfehlung von Churchills Berater Lord Cherwell sollten dabei vor allem Arbeitersiedlungen angeflogen werden, da um die Häuser der Mittelklasse zu viel freie Fläche wäre und auf diese Art "Bomben verschwendet" würden. Churchill persönlich warb bei Roosevelt um eine Intensivierung der Luftangriffe auf deutsche Siedlungen. So wurde in Dugway mit dem Bau des "German Village" begonnen.

[…]

Über 97 Prozent der Brandbomben, die die amerikanischen Luftstreitkräfte in den letzten eineinhalb Kriegsjahren über Deutschland abwarfen, waren vom Typ AN-M50, der zuvor in Dugway getestet worden war. Die Verwüstung, die dieser neue Waffentyp anrichtete, war gewaltig. Eine amerikanische Kommission von Militärangehörigen, Feuerwehrleuten und Versicherungsexperten, die nach Kriegsende Bilanz zog, stellte fest: "Es kam zu Feuerstürmen; die großflächige Feuer erzeugten einen gewaltigen, hurrikanähnlichen Sog, der andere Feuer fütterte und alle Versuche, die Lage unter Kontrolle zu bringen, zum Scheitern verurteilte." Der Luftkrieg in Deutschland, schätzten die Experten, habe 305.000 Menschen das Leben gekostet, 780.000 verwundet und 7,5 Millionen Obdachlose zurückgelassen. (Emphases added.)

For those who can't read German, the article states that the RAF started attacking civilian targets in 1942, with special attention to the more concentrated labor class dwellings. After explaining a bit about German Village, it informs us that the bombings of the last 1.5 years of the war were characterized by firestorms and extreme destruction thanks to the German Village testing facility.

For those who can't read German, Google Translate does a passable job.

And, death to oranges and orange juice!

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2Fw47_Qt1jIF4%2F0.jpg&hash=ed31d2a1c95589cb625e5f136674b0aa" rel="cached" data-hash="ed31d2a1c95589cb625e5f136674b0aa" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w47_Qt1jIF4/0.jpg)

The creator of the top-secret "German Village" was a German architect."

"Creator" is an overstatemnt. He was hired for the project since he had best knowledge about how average German home was build like. Yes, he was a well-known German Jew architect, Erich Mendelsohn.

War by definition and practice is inhuman, or, perhaps, all too human. Some examples stand out as especially heinous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_concentration_camps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazi_concentration_camps)

Of course it is, no matter which side does it and nobody should try to condemn war crimes selectively.
Stating that war crimes were a necessity and they saved human lives is heinous as well, no matter who says it.
I could continue with war crimes done in the post WWII era as well..., but the subject is closed for me - for now at least.

Stating that war crimes were a necessity and they saved human lives is heinous as well, no matter who says it.

At his point one has to assume irrational emotions prevent you from seeing what you're doing. A legacy of pointless death is what you offer those people.

War crimes for the era included millions dead in genocide. You really have no case.

an assumption is an assumption .

since there is no a magic ball to magically read the Human Psyche .
AFAIK to Prevent mind create some emotional realities (Assuming their Minds),  rather than check the Physical realities .
is  by ask some question that can deeply goes to  his/her das es.

traditionally , it can be done with asking a question " what do you want? " .

i tried to ask   " what is your agenda ? "  .

but it seems,  it is unanswered yet .

but it seems,  it is unanswered yet .

It will remain so... There's nothing to be done but decide what it means to you and if that's what you want to pass on to others. Considering living in a society means sometimes what you think can be overridden. There's no magic needed. If krake could answer what agenda there is to this and why he feels he needs to press on he'd know why Dresden happened and accept human nature for the circumstances. There's something else driving this and the truth isn't something human nature will let him admit, that he isn't so different from what he would rage against. Goes for rj too.

Quote

The NKVD also conducted the Katyn massacre, summarily executing over 20,000 Polish military officer prisoners in April and May 1940.

This was the moment when Blokhin rose to be the most prolific executioner of all history. His efficiency continued to quantities that possibly remain outside anyone else's reach for the rest of history.

Vasili Mikhailovich Blokhin (7 January 1895 – 3 February 1955) was a Soviet Russian Major-General who served as the chief executioner of the Stalinist NKVD... He is recorded as having executed tens of thousands of prisoners by his own hand, including his killing of about 7,000 Polish prisoners of war during the Katyn massacre in spring 1940...

In comparison, jihadists are noobs.

Kind of makes the Nazis noobs as well compared to the Soviets.......

http://www.lavidalocavore.org/diary/2789/how-the-british-empire-starved-millions-of-indians-and-why-it-is-still-important-today (http://www.lavidalocavore.org/diary/2789/how-the-british-empire-starved-millions-of-indians-and-why-it-is-still-important-today)

Let's not forget the American Indians.

I think it may be time for the civilized world to become uncivilized in response to Islamic Terrorists. We should maybe behead them. We should maybe disembowel them and scatter their remains within their community. They are earths scum.  :irked: They are among us, and they will do anything they can for Islam. There is no such person as a moderate Muslim, and they are planning to take over the world. If you believe this is not true, you are sadly mistaken. Muslims will not rest until we either all convert to Islam or we are dead. That is the truth.

They use modern facilities and systems to emphasise their position but cannot work very well in a free society due to way Islam is worked. They are a danger to everyone and the "moderates" are not capable of doing much are they? Schindler could be effectively described as a moderate Nazi but could do relatively much compared to the size of the plight. Everywhere they have continued to flood in they are a damnable menace bringing young Muslims who are too emotionally dat unable to think properly and see democracy as an opposition to Islam. Stuff them and their Sharia Law and I don't want either.  :irked:

Smiley, becoming fake French clearly doesn't suit you.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey0wvGiAH9g[/video]

Must say that America is very genuinely fortunate (hooray!) and if it had the level of Islamic  progress as here and Europe things would be different so enjoy that. situation

Must say that America is very genuinely fortunate (hooray!) and if it had the level of Islamic  progress as here and Europe things would be different so enjoy that. situation

*checks Google Translate for "RJHOWIE Rant(s)"

Translation: "I'm mighty impressed that the ex-colonists don't have all this Islamofascist rubbish to deal with. Makes the mind wonder if I oughtn't ask Jim to let me stay at his semi-detached house while I scope out some land to buy. Things are much different here in Europe, so I might as well enjoy 'MURICA."

 :yes: :up: :D :jester: :troll: :bye:

Not a bad search there Southern laddies but there is one caveat to it.  Me being such an active man and keen on walks in the country, active in organisations and hill/country hikes he would groan as the armchair is rather cumfy.

And what do you make of this one?

A doctor who is the head of the Belfast Islam Centre has praised the IS. Says that people have conducted the outside to say how wonderful it all is!

Not a bad search there Southern laddies but there is one caveat to it.  Me being such an active man and keen on walks in the country, active in organisations and hill/country hikes he would groan as the armchair is rather cumfy.

???

And what do you make of this one?

A doctor who is the head of the Belfast Islam Centre has praised the IS. Says that people have conducted the outside to say how wonderful it all is!

???

Coherence is overrated?

Coherence is overrated?

Is pefectionary cumfortble as I walk all over wether imperial American or not.

#illridewithyou now goes French.

Paris shooting: French tweet #voyageavecmoi in solidarity with Muslims after Charlie Hebdo attack (http://www.straitstimes.com/news/world/europe/story/french-tweet-voyageavecmoi-solidarity-muslims-after-paris-shooting-20150108)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B65Kx9oCYAA4Dj8.jpg)

I think we really need to perhaps stand back just a wee bit on the French situation. The media always goes flat out and rubs it's hands on big issues and terrible things. One tv reporter standing on a paris Street was going on about police running about everywhere and you heard sirens all over the place - but not where he was.

When we look at the dastardly things that went on in France we also need to take a deep breath and admit the evil however there is some overtly emotional stuff going on. The French are always tradtionally into emotion and the Republic and all that and we had millions out going over the top with those I am Charlie posters. Then an army of world leaders all arm in arm. The principle of showing support is fine but there were more dead in the london killings and what about America with over 3,000 in one day aT 9/11?

On top of all the French hoo-ha style we had the President waxing about French solidairity all being united and together but he banned the Front Nationale except for it's leader! What hypocrisy was that? The same NF came 3rd in the French Presidential has reps across the country and a large following but the Socialist guy in the palace is something else. So those countries with bigger deaths through Islamist fanatical head cases must play fiddle to a country like France??

Do you hate the French more than the Americans or the French immigrant Muslims? Or the immigrant U.K. Muslims? Or the other way around? Or the Catholics?

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIAMjnkA.png&hash=75d0d7eea719091c2572795fb09fe4a5" rel="cached" data-hash="75d0d7eea719091c2572795fb09fe4a5" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/IAMjnkA.png)  (https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIAMjnkA.png&hash=75d0d7eea719091c2572795fb09fe4a5" rel="cached" data-hash="75d0d7eea719091c2572795fb09fe4a5" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://i.imgur.com/IAMjnkA.png)

Speaking of Twitter taggers, Fox News caused some indigestion at Downing Street.

Fox News man is 'idiot' for Birmingham Muslim comments – David Cameron (http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/12/fox-news-expert-ridiculed-over-birmingham-is-totally-muslim-city-claims)

The Fox News commentator who said the British city of Birmingham was a no-go zone for non-Muslims is a “complete idiot”, the prime minister, David Cameron, has said.

“When I heard this, frankly, I choked on my porridge and I thought it must be April Fools’ day,” Cameron said. “This guy’s clearly a complete idiot.”

Terrorism expert Steven Emerson claimed on US news channel Fox News that non-Muslims do not go to Birmingham, which he said had become a “totally Muslim” city. Emerson added:

Quote

In Britain, it’s not just no-go zones, there are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim where non-Muslims just simply don’t go in.

And, parts of London, there are actually Muslim religious police that actually beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn’t dress according to religious Muslim attire.

Emerson later apologised “for having made this comment about the beautiful city of Birmingham”.

All turning into a storm in a Twitpot...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2213095990/rabeb_bigger.jpg)
If you are a non-muslim and would  like to visit Birmingham #illridewithyou #FoxNewsFacts (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FoxNewsFacts?src=hash)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7I0Y4GIEAAV1vC.jpg:large)

(https://dndsanctuary.eu/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.haaretz.co.il%2Fst%2Finter%2FHeng%2Fnews%2Fimages%2Fcharlie.jpg&hash=2c8b5076acfbfefb9a0ccdd97bbbe9ab" rel="cached" data-hash="2c8b5076acfbfefb9a0ccdd97bbbe9ab" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/news/images/charlie.jpg)

The late Christopher Hitchens hit the nail on the head some years ago, about the responses to the cartoons that offended the Islamic fundies: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/02/cartoon_debate.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/02/cartoon_debate.html)


"Islam makes very large claims for itself. In its art, there is a prejudice against representing the human form at all. The prohibition on picturing the prophet—who was only another male mammal—is apparently absolute. So is the prohibition on pork or alcohol or, in some Muslim societies, music or dancing. Very well then, let a good Muslim abstain rigorously from all these. But if he claims the right to make me abstain as well, he offers the clearest possible warning and proof of an aggressive intent. This current uneasy coexistence is only an interlude, he seems to say. For the moment, all I can do is claim to possess absolute truth and demand absolute immunity from criticism. But in the future, you will do what I say and you will do it on pain of death.

I refuse to be spoken to in that tone of voice, which as it happens I chance to find "offensive." (By the way, hasn't the word "offensive" become really offensive lately?) The innate human revulsion against desecration is much older than any monotheism: Its most powerful expression is in the Antigone of Sophocles. It belongs to civilization. I am not asking for the right to slaughter a pig in a synagogue or mosque or to relieve myself on a "holy" book. But I will not be told I can't eat pork, and I will not respect those who burn books on a regular basis. I, too, have strong convictions and beliefs and value the Enlightenment above any priesthood or any sacred fetish-object. It is revolting to me to breathe the same air as wafts from the exhalations of the madrasahs, or the reeking fumes of the suicide-murderers, or the sermons of Billy Graham and Joseph Ratzinger. But these same principles of mine also prevent me from wreaking random violence on the nearest church, or kidnapping a Muslim at random and holding him hostage, or violating diplomatic immunity by attacking the embassy or the envoys of even the most despotic Islamic state, or making a moronic spectacle of myself threatening blood and fire to faraway individuals who may have hurt my feelings. The babyish rumor-fueled tantrums that erupt all the time, especially in the Islamic world, show yet again that faith belongs to the spoiled and selfish childhood of our species."

The tabu against depiction is not unique for Islam. Judaism and Christianity has it as well. Exodus 20:1-12 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2020:1-20:12&version=NIV)

1 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

How this prohibition actually has been acted upon has depended on religious fashion.

IMHO religions, isms , Ideologies , books , etc ...  is not dangerous without Human .

what something need to do is just do not let Psychotic-People have a too easy access to religion .

on the other hand ,  give easier access to mental health care .

since Religions , Weed , Illegal Drugs , Guns , etc is always easier to get than to get  access to mental health care .


not sure if it is  correct   , but it seems  'mericans propagate Mental health  heavily , in movies , etc .

some that i remember ;

Electra --> OCD
Need for speed --> ADD/ADHD
Ironman --> PTSD , Bipolar , Panic attack , etc

The tabu against depiction is not unique for Islam. Judaism and Christianity has it as well. Exodus 20:1-12 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=exodus%2020:1-20:12&version=NIV)

Quote

1 And God spoke all these words:
...
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
...

How this prohibition actually has been acted upon has depended on religious fashion.

The Protestant world has interpreted verse 4 in context of verse 5: "You shall not make for yourself an image (to worship)..."

I really don't know about the Catholic world... :left:

Speaking as a religious man-- specifically a Protestant Christian-- I can say that I, at least, will not shoot, bomb, threaten and so on people who make images of Jesus. Even blasphemous ones. God will take care of all of that in His own good time.

Note: In today's age, if Christians went crazy every time somebody made a blasphemous image of Jesus, we would have time for little else besides burning and bombing. Think of all the images that are out and about, made to enrage. Now, consider that just making an image of any sort of Mohammed gets the Islamic world upset..... do you have any idea how many churches have images of Jesus in them, and if just possessing an image was enough to bring down the wrath-----...

The Protestant world has interpreted verse 4 in context of verse 5: "You shall not make for yourself an image (to worship)..."

I really don't know about the Catholic world...  :left:

Yep, which is the case in Islam as well. The idea is to prevent idolatry. How it is interpreted may vary with period, place, and religion and schism.

Must say tt92 for all your forthright stuff here you are not that bright. Typical if one chooses to take a stand on an issue that the word 2hat" comes into things! You would make a good Yank especially a Republican one. You chose to just brush aside the main thrust and i have absolutely no intention of going back on what i said. More were killed in London and a vastly massive more in the USA at the Twin Towers yet we got this over the top emotion from the French. And my view of the President is unchanged and he was quite unprincipled at who could not attend the march. As a place they are more emotional. Their politcs and tradition are steeped in this special view tagged with misty eyes and how special they are. Yeah rememebr the mess of two World wars amongst other things? Why is the shocking that it was murders there automatically more to the top than the savageness in London or the even worse mass killing in New York? As for that magazine everyone has got climbed on to is another almost mass hysteria fired by French emotion over the top.

As for Fox i don't have it nor want it but the journalist who made the mistakes did on news eleswhere come on and deeply apologise for his mistakes and had got his information base as a wrong one. At the same time however Birmingham the GB's second largest city no longer has an indigenous majority and there have been serious problems required the national agency responsible to investigate Muslim dominated schools for some dodgy teaching. London he was right with being no longer indigenous with many from that corner having been able to flight out.

For all that France may have tried to do in it's owwn way to make everyone "French" the Islamic cruels are usaully not new immigrants but from 3rd generation, etc. The one good other thing in France's side is that of the 5 million from Islamic cave dweller origins a big chunk are very religious - some experts say as much as two=thirds so a tick to France on that one! I still say it is an emotional country and a bit too much living in Napoleon's long gone shadow.

Must say tt92 for all your forthright stuff here you are not that bright.

Talk about the skillet calling the fully modern kitchen a slacker! :)

(OK. Got that out of my system…)

One of the things I've read over the last few days is this:

"The Quran told early Muslims, who routinely faced the mockery of their faith by pagans: 'God has told you in the Book that when you hear God's revelations disbelieved in and mocked at, do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them.' Just 'do not sit with them' — that is the response the Quran suggests for mockery. Not violence. Not even censorship. Wise Muslim religious leaders from the entire world would do Islam a great favor if they preached and reiterated such a non-violent and non-oppressive stance in the face of insults against Islam."
(source (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/14/opinion/islams-problem-with-blasphemy.html?_r=1))

There are various reactions to the massacre at the Charlie Hebdo Paris office… The other one that caught my eye -immediately- was this:

"Killing in response to insult, no matter how gross, must be unequivocally condemned ... But neither should we tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction. [my underlining] Those who work at (Charlie Hebdo) have a long and disgusting record of going way beyond the mere lampooning of public figures, and this is especially true of their depictions of religious figures. ... What (Muslims) object to is being intentionally insulted over the course of many years. On this aspect, I am in total agreement with them.
(source (http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/))

My few thoughts:

First, do we really need to wait 700 years for Islam to "catch up"?
No. I don't think so… (My views haven't changed much over the years, and needn't be dwelt on here.) We will have to react to provocations (…a little more serious than mocking-cartoons…).
Why is it that Islamists don't see this?
(Or are they actively seeking a civilizational conflict…? :) )

But I'd like to highlight something that has mostly been overlooked:

Why was a Kosher market targeted by the Charlie Hebdo assassins' confreres? Normal shoppers killed…at a Jewish market?

Do I need to spell it out?
(That would be "second"… But -as usual- I expect an enormous dis-engagement!)
If someone asks me to, I will.

I'm sorry to intrude on your reading displeasure: But I need to ask (…anyone who has knowledge of the original -was it in Arabic?- quote) what prompted this (http://www.timesofisrael.com/kosher-supermarket-killer-told-tv-station-he-deliberately-targeted-jews/) atrocity?

Are Jews fair game? Christians? (We -most of us who are one or the other, or apostates of one sort or the other…) need to know: Are we the enemy?
And can you afford such a declaration?

BHO's administration (and many other Western governments) would say yes. What do you -if you are a true believer- think the people will say?

(This topic will implode… Unless no Muslims participate.)

But, before then. I'll ask: What will the people do?

 

they actively seeking a civilizational conflict…?

Expansionism  , if you know what i mean .

their structure and pattern is almost same with Christianity .
so they also  have Missionaries but  in arabic term ;  something like Habib , Ustad , etc

To expand will need some Power , so they do some unification .
and People that United usually they have  these few factors :

Have the same Enemies ( Real or imaginary enemies )
Have The same Ideology ( Apocalyptic Mind , Victim mentality ,  etc )
Have the same Goal ( Build Utopia land  --> Khilafa , etc )
have the same fate
have the same Personality
etc .

at this point in the surface they have " The same Enemies "  --> Christian and Juice , etc.

atrocity

non-Muslim ( christian , Juice , Buddhist , Hindi , etc ) is infidels [in arabic  --> Kafirs] .
and killing infidels will got reward --> 72 angels in heaven .

That is why it is necessary  to Prevent Psychotic nor Schizophrenic people that deluded and experiencing hallucination to get access to religions , and give them Anti-psychotics drugs instead

IMHO if some dude like , charlie Hebdo got murdered by those Fundamentalist .
i guess it is because he produce low Quality Satirical contents .

The Best Satire will Harras some groups , but those groups  that harrased will laugh .
not Murder the Satire artist.

if some dude like , charlie Hebdo

You don't actually seem to have a connection with real people. If you'd like to refer to your "friends" in the cartoon world, please accost them by name!

What is your opinion, about killing people "we" think are nasty? People who offend us?

As more than a few of my contemporaries (and confreres…) have mentioned, free speech is a requisite for rational, reasonable self-government.

But —as you know— not everyone believes in any sort of "self-government"…

no need to be panic sir ..
it doesnot necesarry too , to do some poisoning the well based on assumptions .
and Satire is not always about cartoon .

it is sommething like Criticism in a Funny way .
i am not a satire artist , but i also have made some satirical contents .
in example ;

Stupidity and insanity is genuinely human Rights .

What is your opinion, about killing people "we" think are nasty? People who offend us?

AFAIK , Killing People is illegal .

so whoever that broke the law should deal with the law .
of course the law in that land .

Stupidity and insanity is genuinely human Rights .

Dear heart: You may not have offended me.

Aren't you glad I'm not an adherent of Islam? :) Else, I might have had to kill you… (Depending upon which Imam I followed.) There's a disconnect between rationality and Islam that can't be bridged, until Islam becomes more rational…

Dear heart: You may not have offended me.

i do not find a good reason to offence you , Sir .
so why assuming i offend you ?

I might have had to kill you… (Depending upon which Imam I followed.)

actually , i also like to live dangerously .
so this kind of argumentum ad baculum is not something new .

there are already many people that threatening want  to Kill me nor my family . 

mostly it is from Fundamentalist of -isms .
Bigots , Zealots , psychopaths , etc.

  Islam becomes more rational

I doubt if religion can be sane and rational , especially Abrahamic stream .

There are various reactions to the massacre at the Charlie Hebdo Paris office… The other one that caught my eye -immediately- was this:

Quote

"Killing in response to insult, no matter how gross, must be unequivocally condemned ... But neither should we tolerate the kind of intolerance that provoked this violent reaction. [my underlining] Those who work at (Charlie Hebdo) have a long and disgusting record of going way beyond the mere lampooning of public figures, and this is especially true of their depictions of religious figures. ... What (Muslims) object to is being intentionally insulted over the course of many years. On this aspect, I am in total agreement with them.
(source (http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/))

Why is it that Islamists don't see this?
(Or are they actively seeking a civilizational conflict…? :) )

The Catholic church has taken the brunt of Charlie through the years, not Muslims. There has been a Muslim issue every other year or so. Charlie is a weekly.

The Islamist groups don't  actively seek a "civilizational" conflict, less than the anti-islamic groups, it's just a bonus. They are in active competition with other Islamist groups, sometimes/some places at outright war, being the enemy number one is a badge of honour. It's a balance. You don't want to piss off your constituency more than your propaganda apparatus can make up for, the constituency isn't all Muslims, only eligible Muslims. On the other hand if other groups get a better brand, your recruiting will suffer.

Pissing off somebody else is thus a good strategy, because the more pissed off they become the more you gain (just be careful not to piss off somebody that is actually in a position to hurt you substantially, like when the predecessors of ISIL/Da'ish were subdued by other Iraqis).

Too much can be made of Islamist groups. Pick a major religion and you'll find murder, violence and mayhem.

Too much can be made of Islamist groups. Pick a major religion and you'll find murder, violence and mayhem.

Or a large enough group of atheists.
Or lettuce growers.

Quote from: Jimbro3738 on 2015-01-15, 15:21:56

Too much can be made of Islamist groups. Pick a major religion and you'll find murder, violence and mayhem.

Or a large enough group of atheists.
Or lettuce growers.

Lettuce not make too much of the atheist threat. We are a largely peaceful group compared to the Christian rabble rousers.

http://www.demorgen.be/fotografie/leger-ingezet-in-antwerpen-2185468/

The military is out on the streets. Here's a video: http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/binnenland/1.2210934

A letter in the Vinegar Courier, the third largest newspaper in the Netherlands and the largest quality newspaper. (The fourth largest and best is the NRC.)

http://www.volkskrant.nl/dossier-brieven/wij-joden-moeten-serieus-overwegen-om-naar-israel-te-vertrekken~a3831563/
"We Jews should seriously consider moving to Israel" Google Translation here (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.volkskrant.nl%2Fdossier-brieven%2Fwij-joden-moeten-serieus-overwegen-om-naar-israel-te-vertrekken%7Ea3831563%2F&edit-text=).

What a nonsense from jimbro that rather daft comment about other religions. There is one religion creating havoc all over the world and ALL the time not just some rogue lot in some corner and fine he knows it.

As for the patter about European Jews suggesting going to Israel yet another bit of hype I think. There are enough of them in Israel as it damn well is hence them stealing land from others like a certain country in Europe in the pre-War days. Now we get senior government ministers like Theresa May Home Secretary coming out with all sorts of platitudes because of mainland Europe. Protecting of innocents is one thing but there was no threat here and in London I see n a picture of what was really a Jewish vigilante police style car vehicle on patrol.

In a recent poll in France itself over 40%- was it nearer 47% thought the reaction of all that Charlie stuff was wrong and it was and is. When a founder of Charlie comes out and says the magazine was going over the top with Islam it opens the debate to more clinical looks rather than all the media hype and Charlie cards held up. Even did it in the European parliament as if some great principled lot from an organisation that hasn't been cleared by auditors for well over a decade and more!  Still think the Frenchies were over the top and slowed the impression they had got worse than anyone else. America, Britain, Nigeria to name but three have had worse.  :irked:

I think this says volumes about what the real central issues surrounding the CHARLIE HEBDO KILLINGS are.

Think this says it all


If only all our politicians stop the politically correct spin and be as refreshingly straight forward as this guy! I'm sure you won't see this interview aired in the mainstream media.
Part of the transcript of an interview aired on Al Jazeera that a friend sent me, where Scott Morrison, MP (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aph.gov.au%2FS_Morrison_MP&ei=HkjCVN7CHIv08QX2k4LYAQ&usg=AFQjCNHSsAo5CWS6y_Ow6zICcSkT13dAig&bvm=bv.84349003,d.dGc&cad=rja)was invited for comment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------




Transcript Station:
Al JaZeERa ENGLISH
Date:
9/1/2015...
Program: The STREAM Time:7:06 AM
Compere:
AL JAZEERA Summary ID:W00059934129
---------------------------

INTERVIEW ON CHARLIE HEBDO KILLINGS

MORRISON: I’m sorry. I have to interrupt here. I’m sorry I am not going to sit here and listen to people stupidly suggest that the French or the magazine or anyone brought this on themselves. Are you for real? We have a dozen people dead, killed in the name of a religious belief and you are seriously going to even slightly justify this?
COMPERE: I don’t think anyone is justifying anything here.
MORRISON: Well that’s not what I am hearing. I’m hearing this vaguely worded defence that France shouldn’t have done this and Sarkozy said that two years ago, and if they didn’t draw Mohammed then this might not of happened or whatever. It is obscene and a gutless way of almost saying they all deserved this. Well if you believe that you are about as bad as the idiot who thinks the pretty girl in the short skirt is asking to be raped so she better watch out.
COMPERE: That’s a ridiculous comparison.
MORRISON: Is it ridiculous? Tell me how? It’s the “you were asking for it” way of thinking. Your logic is those who drew the pictures should have known better and should have known what the response would be. Where as I say, if you can’t accept that people have different views to you then maybe the problem is with you if your response is the pull out an AK and go nuts.
COMPERE: Well, the material was designed to offend.
MORRISON: And so what. A lot of what I’ve heard here today has offended me but if you’re civilised, and I think that’s a major issue with some of the people we are talking about, if you are civilised you just get on with it. We shouldn’t have to have special rules for special people.
COMPERE: No-one is suggesting special rules just an understanding that some things are offensive.
MORRISON: So OK, we can have a bit of fun with the Pope, with Buddha, Jesus Christ on the Cross, The Dalai Lama, The Queen, Barack Obama. Want to add to the list? But not anything or anyone associated with Muslims. They’re special apparently. And that’s where all this free speech talk I’m hearing falls to bits. If you defend free speech then you defend offensive speech as well. It’s real easy to stand up for the nice stuff but sometime it gets ugly and if you are fair dinkum, as we say in Australia, you stand for all. Now, I’m not fond of Jesus Christ jokes but if you crack one you shouldn’t fear a few goons showing up with AK47s and shooting everyone in the office dead at their desks. So please, spare me the justification garbage for these terrorists being upset and just responding to provocation. If you think they are even slightly justified for killing people who drew some pictures then I’m afraid you are over in their column.
COMPERE: OK I take your point but if you deliberately set out to offend there are consequences.
MORRISON: Yes there are. People might not buy your magazine or you get nasty letters in the mail from upset people but not a dozen of your workmates dead at their desks, and here we are again talking about consequences. It’s back to the same argument as the pretty girl in the bar example. If you think she’s asking to be raped you are, in my view, unfit for civilised society. You are uncivilised and maybe that’s something we should be spending a bit of energy on.
* * End * *
Transcript produced by iSentia

What's your take?

The point is exactly here: (it's been debated in another thread)

COMPERE: I don’t think anyone is justifying anything here.
MORRISON: Well that’s not what I am hearing.

What exactly are they talking about? And who are they?

I am a Christian. Worse (from some points of view here) a fundamentalist Christian. How many times have my God been chewed up here on this forum alone?

OK--- who here is afraid that I and a bunch of my friends will show up with guns and shoot up the place because somebody drew an unflattering drawing of Jesus or suggested that followers of my faith are less than wonderful? Not many I'd think, but if you draw a picture of Mohammed--- any picture at all, even one favorable-- it seems the hotheads want to grab guns and kill everyone who had anything to do with it.

Back when we had the old forum, I do remember one of their number suggesting that I and my fellows should riot like they do when my Christ is made fun of--- but the thing is, Jesus said NOT to behave that way, so if I and my fellows riot because we're being dissed, we would be disobeying what Jesus said to do. I wonder if Mohammed told his followers to burn, pillage and kill if someone dissed him--- or are they taking it upon themselves to behave this way in spite of anything their prophet said.

MORRISON: Yes there are. People might not buy your magazine or you get nasty letters in the mail from upset people but not a dozen of your workmates dead at their desks, and here we are again talking about consequences. It’s back to the same argument as the pretty girl in the bar example. If you think she’s asking to be raped you are, in my view, unfit for civilised society. You are uncivilised and maybe that’s something we should be spending a bit of energy on.

Hear, hear!

I wonder if Mohammed told his followers to burn, pillage and kill if someone dissed him--- or are they taking it upon themselves to behave this way in spite of anything their prophet said.

He did order such things when people mocked him through poetry.

Free Speech has caused bus loads of ignorant young cherubs to join the ISIS Islamic Jihad, condoned by Muslims everywhere*, mostly because they despise Free Speech, & Jihad promises the end of Free Speech.






*  "Who can protest and does not, is an accomplice in the act."

I have always stated that Islam and the political idea of democracy are not good bedfellows. There was a period centuries ago when there were some progressive things in that religion but as wider attitudes started growing elsewhere that faded into history and gradually Islam became prehistoric and worse. Everywhere they have left their hell hole countries and came to in the West they have brought with tem bombings, killings and mayhem whether moderate Islam exists or not.

They seem to be intellectually incapable of using the democratic systems where they plunk to and breed like mad. Instead their young flock off to some backward Islam place and behead and create mass killings. The so-called liberal democracy of the West has been so easy fore them and what is happening here and across Europe WILL get worse because as Islam flourishes so too does a chunk of militant head bangers. If they don't think we are good enough let them shove off even though they are hypocritical enough to use no-Muslim techy stuff to do what they want. Everywhere across the globe they seethe, destabilise and create havoc Some moderates willsay the militants are wrong but not enough.

Even with the "moderates" when a government minister sent out a letter to all the mosques down in England he got lambasted by the would-be tolerants. His communication was totally innocent and encouraging co-operation and trying to get the young away from going to fight overseas, etc.  Kind of says something that.

I have always stated that Islam and the political idea of democracy are not good bedfellows. There was a period centuries ago when there were some progressive things in that religion but as wider attitudes started growing elsewhere that faded into history and gradually Islam became prehistoric and worse. Everywhere they have left their hell hole countries and came to in the West they have brought with tem bombings, killings and mayhem whether moderate Islam exists or not.

They seem to be intellectually incapable of using the democratic systems where they plunk to and breed like mad. Instead their young flock off to some backward Islam place and behead and create mass killings. The so-called liberal democracy of the West has been so easy fore them and what is happening here and across Europe WILL get worse because as Islam flourishes so too does a chunk of militant head bangers. If they don't think we are good enough let them shove off even though they are hypocritical enough to use no-Muslim techy stuff to do what they want. Everywhere across the globe they seethe, destabilise and create havoc Some moderates willsay the militants are wrong but not enough.

Even with the "moderates" when a government minister sent out a letter to all the mosques down in England he got lambasted by the would-be tolerants. His communication was totally innocent and encouraging co-operation and trying to get the young away from going to fight overseas, etc.  Kind of says something that.

Firstly, there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

Who can protest and does not, is an accomplice in the act.   — The Talmud

Secondly, if they tell us (non-muslims, non-believers) otherwise it's most probably a black tongued lie to cover their real agenda, or avoid having to tell the truth.

The Modern Version of the Koran, minus their Satanic Verses, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Verses) teaches them to lie if it will help them gain advantage, or enable their end-goal of Islamic World Domination.

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman.  These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. 

One of many:

Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."

 
Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means says the Koran.







If we continue to cower to Islam, we will find more & more of our youth willing to volunteer for Islam (ISIS,  al qaeda, etc...) because in our cowardice they will see our submission, & with that they will have all the justification they need to wage holy war on us, because we are the last form of authority left between Islam & World Domination.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/belgium-muslim-youth-turning-toward-jihad-in-large-numbers-a-1015045.html

In Belgium, Delefortrie says, he felt discriminated against, specifically complaining that he hadn't been allowed to pray at work. He also said that there were so many regulations pertaining to the construction of mosques that when they were finished, they looked like garages. "If you spend years pounding on someone, it is only logical that he fights back," Delefortrie says.

Did you ever stop to consider that there is nothing unique about mosques? That the local Jain temple (http://jain-temple-europe.blogspot.be/2009/11/largest-jain-temple-in-europe.html) had to go through the exact same rules and somehow it doesn't seem to "look like a garage"? Maybe — just maybe — consider building from scratch instead of converting old breweries and garages if the industrial aesthetic bothers you so much. The fact that you think you should get a special pass, that you think being treated the same as everyone else means you're being discriminated against — well, aren't you bloody special? Grow up.

Appeasement has a tendency to produce disastrous results. Remember Neville Chamberlain, stepping off that plane with Herr Hitler's signature in his hand? A few months later the world began to reap what appeasement sows.

There can be no appeasement with a man who stands behind you, knife in hand, getting ready to cut your head off.

Terrorism is a relatively trivial problem in a sea of serious problems.
=========================–
— You are 17,600 times more likely to die from heart disease than from a terrorist attack

— You are 12,571 times more likely to die from cancer than from a terrorist attack

— You are 11,000 times more likely to die in an airplane accident than from a terrorist plot involving an airplane

— You are 1048 times more likely to die from a car accident than from a terrorist attack

— You are 404 times more likely to die in a fall than from a terrorist attack

— You are 87 times more likely to drown than die in a terrorist attack

— You are 13 times more likely to die in a railway accident than from a terrorist attack

— You are 12 times more likely to die from accidental suffocation in bed than from a terrorist attack

— You are 9 times more likely to choke to death on your own vomit than die in a terrorist attack

— You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist

— You are 8 times more likely to die from accidental electrocution than from a terrorist attack

— You are 6 times more likely to die from hot weather than from a terrorist attack

The Radicalization of Luke Skywalker: A Jedi's Path To Jihad (http://decider.com/2015/12/11/the-radicalization-of-luke-skywalker-a-jedis-path-to-jihad/)

A more focused study, however, is needed to truly understand that the Star Wars films are actually the story of the radicalization of Luke Skywalker. From introducing him to us in A New Hope (as a simple farm boy gazing into the Tatooine sunset), to his eventual transformation into the radicalized insurgent of Return of the Jedi (as one who sets his own father’s corpse on fire and celebrates the successful bombing of the Death Star), each film in the original trilogy is another step in Luke’s descent into terrorism. By carefully looking for the same signs governments and scholars use to detect radicalization, we can witness Luke’s dark journey into religious fundamentalism and extremism happen before our very eyes.

When we first meet Luke Skywalker, he’s an orphaned farm boy with barely any friends, living with his Aunt and Uncle, and wanting to join the Galactic Academy like all the other guys his age. You see, Luke didn’t become a space terrorist overnight, but he did exhibit signs that would make him a prime candidate for terrorist recruiters. The process of radicalization, as described by Anthony Stahelski in the Journal of Homeland Security, notes terrorists tend to:

• Come from families where the father is absent (check)


• Have difficulty forming relationships outside the home (check)


• Be attracted to groups offering acceptance and comradeship (checkmate)

Luke is just the kind of isolated disaffected young man that terror recruiters seek out.

(https://nypdecider.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/obi-wan-luke-radicalization.jpg?quality=100&strip=all&w=618&strip=all)

Obi Wan — a religious fanatic with a history of looking for young boys to recruit and teach an extreme interpretation of the Force — is practically salivating when he stumbles upon Luke, knowing he’s found a prime candidate for radicalization. Stahelski notes terror groups place a focus on depluralization, stripping away the recruit’s membership from all groups and isolating them to increase their susceptibility to terrorist messaging. Within moments of meeting Luke, Obi-Wan tells Luke he must abandon his family and join him, going so far as telling a shocking lie that the Empire killed Luke’s father, hoping to inspire Luke to a life of jihad.

Shocked and confused by this onslaught of terrorist brainwashing, Luke hurries home only to find the charred corpses of his aunt and uncle. The Empire’s accidental harming of Luke’s Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen can be directly compared to the casualties of President Obama’s drone campaign, whose body count terrorists capitalize upon for recruitment. This is precisely what Obi-Wan does, preying upon Luke’s emotional state to take him under his spell and towards a life of extremism.

Drone strikes: About 2,500 dead
ISIS strikes: To date, more than 170,000 people (mostly Christians and Shiites).
The Holocaust: About 6,000,000 Jews.
Russia in WWII: At least 11,000,000 soldiers (killed and missing) as well as somewhere between 7,000,000 and 20,000,000 million of its civilian population. =====================================================
One doesn't justify the other. Killing is hell.

A law professor writes:

The major justification for freedom of speech is the marketplace of ideas—the claim that if people can say whatever they want, the best ideas will flourish. But just what is it that we can learn from ISIS? The social value of beheading apostates? The finer points of crucifixion? Those who regard free speech as fundamental need to consider whether legal principles that arose centuries ago make sense in the age of Snapchat. It is possible, as Cass Sunstein has explained in Bloomberg View (http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-11-23/islamic-state-s-challenge-to-free-speech), to modify the current test for free speech violations so as to advance public safety without throwing out important protections for dissent. A simple balancing test would permit laws to target dangerous speech that does not advance public debate.
(source (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2015/12/isis_s_online_radicalization_efforts_present_an_unprecedented_danger.single.html); read it all!)

As many "law professors, Eric Posner is slightly confused: Freedom is not something that needs a justification… And certainly not by a government; the opposite is true, that the deprivation of freedom requires considerable justification!

His "suggestion" is one of the most slippery slopes yet suggested, as part of our strategy in the Long War…
I'm agin' it.
—————————————————————————————
The Register adds this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/16/shut_down_the_internet_republicans_say/)…

My suggestion: Train and deploy cyber warriors! It's not like it wasn't going to happen anyway.
But what do I know? :(

There may be something else to consider: As a correspondent to Dr. Pournelle's site mentions,

Declared war identified the enemy, brought full mobilization of all the national assets for the duration and included central command of the economy with price controls, rationing, conscription and funding through war bonds. It was old-fashioned, big war that employed the operational art, and U.S. tactics conformed to our notions of national ideals, culture and honor.

If we no longer practice big declared war, what are we doing instead and how is that working out for us? How did we devolve from old fashioned war to today’s persistent conflict? How will America use its military power in the future?
(source (http://ciceromagazine.com/opinion/war-is-extinct-and-we-miss-it-part-1-what-happened-to-war/))

…I have some sympathy for our president: He knows the words; but he doesn't know their meaning. Do we need to defeat Islamists? Or maintain our values? I'd do both. But that's just me… :)

I still want the U.S. Congress to declare War. It's their purview; and their responsibility.

This idea of Presidential prerogative (…Imperial Prerogative!) needs to end…

(source (https://dndsanctuary.eu/eromagazine.com/opinion/war-is-extinct-and-we-miss-it-part-1-what-happened-to-war/http://cic))

eromagazine.com/opinion/?  :right:

Oops! Cicero Magazine… (I've fixed the link in my post above.) Sorry for the confusion. But I'll bet you got a kick out of it, Bel! :)

You're wrong, there's simply no eromagazine at least as a website.

You're wrong, there's simply no eromagazine at least as a website. (https://dndsanctuary.eu/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=523.173;msg=49627)

If you didn't Google it, you could merely have hovered the link — to see how I'd mangled it… :)

You are of course right OakdaleFTL that the imperialistic President idea should end. Here the Prime Minster traditionally could just go ahead with an attack but of recent times they have wisely let the House of Commons do it.