Re: Democracy in America… Reply #200 – 2014-11-06, 01:57:28 Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-05, 08:50:38State Question 3 got defeated with almost 79% of the vote That issue had been put forward by a Democrat that didn't know the real way to get more money for schools would be to grow the economy.I'm impressed, Sang! (The next step is to the realization that money isn't the most important determinant of good, successful schools… )Have you any comment on your neighbor state's "open primary" system? Or on our recent "affirmative consent" law?[And wouldn't you think some older person might have had the foresight to schedule the bill so that it received the number 976…? ]——————————————————————————Quote from: Belfrager on 2014-11-05, 14:58:51I let you discuss between yourselves your problemsHave people in the Old World no interest the topic of free speech?——————————————————————————Back @Sang: What do you make of this post…? Last Edit: 2014-11-06, 23:00:26 by OakdaleFTL
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #201 – 2014-11-06, 23:18:29 Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-06, 01:57:28Have people in the Old World no interest the topic of free speech?We, people in the Old Word, are very different between ourselves.First you learn that. Since you address me directly, the answer is that free speech exists since ever amongst my race, so we don't bother discussing what everyone agrees.But I have a natural curiosity, an anthropological curiosity should I say, about other place's natives, how they deal with those simple issues. As a Naturalist, I like to observe you with a magnifying glass.Free speech seems to be a problem at North American cultures. Isn't it?I remember you that I was the only one to post to this topic using a classic of American painting, so I suggest you to keep on provoking your "Democrat" co-citizens, not me. Last Edit: 2014-11-06, 23:29:59 by Belfrager
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #202 – 2014-11-07, 01:34:25 Provocation? Oh, I see… Nothing in law has surpassed the quite sensible Code Duello! But isn't Portugal a member of the EU…? Indeed, Old Worlders are a varied lot. As are Americans (U.S.-ers…) Still, there are legal and political demarcations, no?I'll expect to hear from your second… (Unless you are prematurely imprisoned for some "hate speech" offense; in which case, I'll testify on your behalf — if you think it would help. )
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #203 – 2014-11-08, 04:31:00 Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-06, 01:57:28Have you any comment on your neighbor state's "open primary" system? Or on our recent "affirmative consent" law?[And wouldn't you think some older person might have had the foresight to schedule the bill so that it received the number 976…? ]Haven't given them much thought. Open primaries are probably pretty much a wash as far a registered voter for one party deliberately choosing a bad candidate for the other, so I'm not sure it really changes the results. Affirmative Consent, huh? In that seems to be the possibility of both of them being drunk but she doesn't remember being as much a part of the "unwanted" sexual encounter as he was. It also can be judged on preponderance of evidence, so the judge and jury need only be 50.1% sure and they're likely to be biased to believe the female anyway. Last Edit: 2014-11-08, 06:28:50 by Sanguinemoon
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #204 – 2014-11-08, 05:36:10 I wish I knew what you all are talking about.No I don't.
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #205 – 2014-11-10, 05:13:53 Quote from: tt92 on 2014-11-08, 05:36:10I wish I knew what you all are talking about.No I don't.Okay… (Glad I could help! )@Sang (and any others who decry the evil influence of the Koch brothers…): Consider this.(And, perhaps, re-consider my surmise — that some only rail against money's influence in politics when the money comes from people who disagree with them!)
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #206 – 2014-11-10, 06:32:07 Of course the money corrupts both sides. But that particular articles seems to be lying by omission.How about Las Vegas's own Sheldon Adelson ?QuoteCasino Tycoon Sheldon Adelson Takes $100 Million Gamble on GOP SenateBillionaire Sheldon Adelson could put $100 million of his own cash in this year’s midterms. Can he buy the Senate of his dreams?Billionaire casino magnate Sheldon Adelson is poised to donate close to $100 million this election cycle, with much of that total coming in untraceable “dark money” to conservative groups—a massive amount that could help decide which party controls the Senate next year.Several of the casino mogul’s largest checks, in the mid-seven to low-eight figure range, are being sent to a quartet of conservative nonprofits that under IRS rules can mask donors’ names, say three GOP operatives and donors familiar with his contributions. [/url] How weird. One Republican "giving" more than all the Democrats combined. What happened to the Koch's and their 44,000 ads? The article you presented exposes it's own error. Quote With a quick analysis of the donor lists, it is exceptionally easy to get the general picture of the types of political views supported by different super PACs. Right, just looked at donor lists without digging any deeper. Typical conservatives. In this half-hearted answer to your post, in five minutes I've uncovered more than the article's author. But why did I say he was lying by omission? Because it's not possible that he's this poor of a journalist.At least it lets us segue into dark money. What are your thoughts on that?
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #207 – 2014-11-10, 19:23:52 Not too long ago a certain procyonid was dancing to the demise of the Republican Party. Michael Corleone once said, "Just When I Thought I Was Out, They Pull Me Back In!" [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU[/VIDEO]Well, Carol Ann ................................ [glow=blue,2,300]They're back!! [/glow][VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH-B6A04iK0[/VIDEO]Insert your favorite Yogi-ism here..........
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #208 – 2014-11-11, 05:54:17 Straight from the loony bin:Quote from: Right Wing Watch1) Sodomite Semen In Your Starbucks!We knew anti-gay activists were no fans of Starbucks, but Harlem pastor James David Manning took their concerns to a whole new level in recent commentary on “The Manning Report.”He managed to link a recent small protest outside of his church, where two people handed out Starbucks coffee, to “homosexual sodomite” Dr. Craig Spencer, the New York man who contracted Ebola in Guinea (and who has a girlfriend).“Starbucks is a place where these types frequent and a lot of body fluids are exchanged there and Ebola,” Manning said, warning that Starbucks has been “taking specimens of male semen and they were putting it in the blends of their lattes.” He added: “My suspicion is that they’re getting their semen from sodomites. Somebody has discovered that semen like cord blood has millions of little zygotes in it and flavors up the coffee, and makes you thinks you’re having a good time.”“This is the absolute truth,” he said, citing a satirical article.And these people all vote
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #209 – 2014-11-11, 06:59:32 Not to mention the one where Obama will supersede Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot as a mass murderer. Yes, Oakdale, I saw the word "potential" in the original question .How can a sane person even listen to this (it was on the radio)? For the comedy? Free speech is alive and well in this country when people can say this and not get hauled off to the asylum. The problem is that if you actually believe this, you probably do need hospitalization for mental disorders.
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #210 – 2014-11-11, 08:56:46 What do you mean Right Wing Watch is not a comedy site?!
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #211 – 2014-11-11, 16:09:56 Nope. I understand the confusion, since some of the could have come the Onion. But that's really how some of them think. They seem to have forgotten the difference between criticizing a president's policies and being a lunatic.
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #212 – 2014-11-11, 18:39:11 @Mac: Of course Louis Farrakhan (or Al Sharpton or Jeremiah Wright...) have never said anything goofy! People for the American Way is a particularly inaptly named organization!And on the radio! Stop the presses! Call out the National Guard! Give the DoJ more money, so they can stop people from saying stupid things -- that is, when the IRS fails..."Dark money"! That sure sounds spooky, Sang... Tell me all about this conspiracy theory of yours. Inquiring minds want to know! Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-09, 22:32:07How about Las Vegas's own Sheldon Adelson ?You mean no. 6 on the list of the top ten (in the article I linked to)? But I did like the way the article you quoted and linked to kept saying "could" and you kept reading "did"! (It shows a certain mind-set.) Last Edit: 2014-11-11, 19:58:44 by OakdaleFTL
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #213 – 2014-11-11, 19:33:23 If you go far enough to either right or left extreme, you'll find an abundance of crazy.Hmmm... Starbucks coffee, eh? And here I thought I just despised the taste of the stuff. Overpriced, tastes like it was burned, have to have strange flavors in it just to make it tolerable-- how about "No"?
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #214 – 2014-11-11, 20:34:29 Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-11, 16:09:56Nope. I understand the confusion, since some of the could have come the Onion.A lot of it would be too over the top for The Onion In other words, Poe's Law.
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #215 – 2014-11-12, 01:15:15 Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-11, 18:39:11You mean no. 6 on the list of the top ten (in the article I linked to)? But I did like the way the article you quoted and linked to kept saying "could" and you kept reading "did"! (It shows a certain mind-set.)Trying to take a cheap shot instead of dealing with the issue, are we? Oh no, my article said it "dark-money groups could prove instrumental in helping the GOP pick up the six Senate seats it will need to take control of the chamber." Oh dear, that must mean the whole article us speculation to you, the resident master of cheap shots. No the article isn't all speculation, and yes Adelson gave 20X more than the article you offered claimed he did, but tried to hide it in dark money. Last Edit: 2014-11-12, 01:33:27 by Sanguinemoon
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #216 – 2014-11-12, 01:35:19 Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-11-11, 19:33:23If you go far enough to either right or left extreme, you'll find an abundance of crazyBut the crazy scale seems to show heaviness of the right side.
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #217 – 2014-11-12, 02:06:49 Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-12, 01:35:19Quote from: mjmsprt40 on 2014-11-11, 19:33:23If you go far enough to either right or left extreme, you'll find an abundance of crazyBut the crazy scale seems to show heaviness of the right side.The extreme, lunatic right is pretty much mainstream now.
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #218 – 2014-11-13, 05:30:21 @Mac and Sang: I take it, you didn't like the election results?! Yet another article about super PACs and "dark" money can be found here… (Never mind the link: Real-life obligations intervened; and, in the meantime, my browser or this site "ate" my post…twice! Okay, the browser saved the page: here. [AndBut] I've seen no evidence that you can read and understand anything that isn't "pre-approved". (Hint: You could try reading the Citizens United decision that so aggravates you!*)Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-11, 17:15:15"dark-money groups could prove instrumental in helping the GOP pick up the six Senate seats it will need to take control of the chamber."What type of statutory construction depends upon a phrase like "could prove instrumental in helping"? (I mean, other than they're a-gin' me, and therefore must be stopped!)I honestly don't know what your idea of the 1st Amendment right to free speech is, Sang. And I doubt you do…(Macallan, you're a spectator — I think, by nature! But if your only contribution is to say how smart you are you've accomplished that… You've said how smart you think you are.Feel free to hug yourself!Did I mention the recent election results? (Of course, you think they're the result of mind-control or moneyed interests' "unfair" advantages… But what you actually mean is: Your side lost, because most people who cared about the result thought they should — and, so, voted that way.Quote from: Macallan on 2014-11-11, 18:06:49The extreme, lunatic right Left is pretty much [no longer] mainstream now.Fixed that for you! (Will you be returning to Germany, now that our southerners have so disappointed you…? Perhaps you can help re-build the Berlin Wall! I, for one, wonder what great things await you — once your genius is recognized!)———————————————————————————* You might want to pay especial attention to the sections discussing Supreme Court precedent regarding the "personhood" trope you rely on… Last Edit: 2014-11-13, 05:49:08 by OakdaleFTL
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #219 – 2014-11-13, 17:08:50 It seems to me that the American Government as a whole is dysfunctional in that it sets up conflicts in policy between the will of the people expressed in the two houses and the President.We have some of that in Europe where the European elections have a different time-scale to the national elections and as a result the political views expressed by national delegations in the European Parliament do not necessarily reflect the political views in the countries they represent, as expressed in the national elections.In the UK there was an ill fated attempt (thank goodness it did fail because it was a proposal shot through with silliness) to democratise the House into elected politicians serving terms of 12 years. Had it passed it would have set up potential out-of-phase political conflicts. I supposes similar dis-function applies in other countries. Surely all this is just a way of Governments shooting themselves in the foot.Yes - I've heard all the BS about "Separation of the Powers" and all that, but if something dos not work well it should be changed, not hidden behind legislation which advantaged political parties claim is Holy writ..
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #220 – 2014-11-13, 21:17:31 Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-13, 05:30:21Quote from: Macallan on 2014-11-11, 18:06:49The extreme, lunatic right Left is pretty much [no longer] mainstream now.Fixed that for you! (Will you be returning to Germany, now that our southerners have so disappointed you…? Perhaps you can help re-build the Berlin Wall! I, for one, wonder what great things await you — once your genius is recognized!)Whatever it is you're smoking, it clearly doesn't do you any good
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #221 – 2014-11-13, 23:05:45 Mac, you keep returning to Right Wing Watch… You are a "type". If that bothers you, stop being silly.———————————————————————————————————@string: The American "style" of government is not -I repeat, is not!- designed to accommodate the functionaries or ease (grease? ) the Big Wheels' track…The topic here is our American 1st Amendment right to free speech, and the various assaults on it. Sang (and President Obama) rightly argue that that right is too often inconvenient — for somebody.In your post you mention a "reform" that your nation averted… (I don't follow British politics. I don't understand enough to speak reasonably about it; and I think it's -mostly- none of my business.) But I'd agree -although you didn't quite put it this way- that making the choice of one's representatives a twice in a generation proposition subverts democracy, and minimizes the import of free speech…Twelve year terms?! Good Lord, what was the rationale for that?If I recall correctly, your election laws constrain "electioneering" to a few months — so that newspapers and the Telly won't be forced to neglect the important things! But it's only a small step from there to "vote once" democracy, isn't it? Have you opinions about either the technicalities of Citizens United (the U.S. Supreme Court decision…) or free speech in general?
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #222 – 2014-11-14, 00:36:43 Quote from: string on 2014-11-14, 05:08:50It seems to me that the American Government as a whole is dysfunctional in that it sets up conflicts in policy between the will of the people expressed in the two houses and the President.It may seem dysfunctional to you, but read more about it --- it may become clearer. It's what we Americans call [glow=blue,2,300]"Checks & Balances" [/glow]In theory, through [glow=blue,2,300]Checks & Balances, [/glow] no one branch of government can reign supreme over another branch. In the long run [glow=blue,2,300]Checks & Balances, [/glow] should further ensure that in order to legislate effectively, legislative cooperation between parties & the branches, is the only way to proceed & pass new legislation. Well virtually the only way. There are 'legitimate' Constitutional ways to override objections between branches, but whatever is being suggested in the new legislation needs to be extremely popular (amongst the legislators & the people - super-majorities in the legislative branch to override a veto by the President, & Constitutional Amendments to override the Supreme Court's Constitutional Rulings).The President has only veto power to ward off legislation he dislikes, & usually must sign any legislation before it becomes law (both can be overcome though - Constitutionally)There have been 2562 Presidential vetoes, & Congress has only overridden a President 110 times.As far as conflicts between the will of the people & the President you allude to. If America was a Democracy, I would agree, but I must remind you.....America was not founded as a Democracy, & will never be a Democracy (in pure terms anyway).America is a Constitutional Republic -- In simple terms, a government based on certain basic democratic principals, but under the supreme rule & guidance of a Constitution.I hope that helps make how our government (our Constitutional Republic) is intended to function, a tad clearer for you. Last Edit: 2014-11-14, 01:21:42 by SmileyFaze
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #223 – 2014-11-14, 16:35:37 Quote from: OakdaleFTL on 2014-11-13, 23:05:45Sang (and President Obama) rightly argue that that right is too often inconvenient — for somebody.I don't argue about convenience. I argue that big money in politics corrupted the system and it's getting worse. Are you really so shortsighted that you think this about the last election?Speaking of crazy, Scott Lively the American "pastor" that played a role in Uganda's "Death to Gays" bill now accuses the HRC of "target(ing) him for murder." What's even crazier, this is spreading in the rightwing blogoshere. Some articles seemed to tone down the insanity that he actually said to make it sound plausible. Lively's problem is that he seems to obsessed with gays. Merely being against equal marriage obviously doesn't mean one it gay himself. However, when one makes a whole career obsessed with gay people and even goes before the Ugandan parliament to preach against them , it fair to wonder why. His insanity and obsession about gay people is only slightly more crazy than thinking I've against free speech because I disagree that righting a fat check to agency that conceals the identity of its donors is free speech. What I've written and published would have gotten me arrested in days not so long past and I'm supposedly against free speech and think people should be sent the to Gulag for disagreeing with me. Please.
Re: Democracy in America… Reply #224 – 2014-11-14, 21:17:07 I had to use Wiki to find out who Lively is… Perhaps I should let the crazies fight it out among themselves!Quote from: Sanguinemoon on 2014-11-14, 08:35:37big money in politics corrupted the system and it's getting worse.You haven't yet argued anything. But you do keep repeating ominous warnings!Have you bothered to read Citizens United? As I've mentioned before, it includes a history lesson you might have missed during you formal schooling…
Topic: Democracy in America… (Read 71366 times)
