Where debating everything under the sun is only the beginning

So 84 percent couldn't correctly locate Ukraine.

It is none of America's business nor the EEC interfering politicians business to shout on about Ukraine's internal affairs.

Jax, where's your map of American Earth?

If West Europeans were asked the same question I would guess we'd get a similar map

(told you, Ersi, Kyrgyzstan's in Europe)

I should hope not. Perhaps if you qualify it as West Europeans who grew up when Ukraine was a Soviet republic.

You are more optimistic than me on our fellow West Europeans. I presume they get the basics right (i.e. Ukraine is in Europe and Europe isn't Africa or South America, and Ukraine borders to Russia). And few West Europeans travel to Ukraine on holiday.

Those that didn't guess Ukraine was in the Black Sea or Caspian Sea, that is. To me that is an indication that one of the problems was an unfamiliar map representation. We who look at graphical representations of Eurasia daily in the Europe thread will recognise the outlines, but it will be an additional cognitive obstacle.

The non-clustering dots, while not completely random, seemed an "I have no clue" option.

Jevgeni Ossinovski, the sole member of the Russian minority serving as a minister in the Estonian government, says he doesn't fear that Vladimir Putin will seek a repeat of Crimea in the Baltics. The Russian minority, he argues, is firmly anchored in Europe.

Thak goodness the voters didn't go bananas and have him as President because a WW3 would have been more likely.

The gas issue is a big one and Russia gave them supplies at a special reduced rate and still didn't get paid on occasions. The EEC has give them nothing and the billion from the US is still to arrive so if it hadn't been for the Russians it would have already have been a failed State.

Russia is still a big debtor to Russia...

Since the start of the Crimea crisis, we've constantly heard that Germans somehow understand Russians. Indeed, hardly any other view has been repeated as often. But nothing could possibly be more misleading. The Germans don't understand Russians: They understand less about the Russians than they do about the British, Spanish or French.


It's true that Germany had a special relationship with the Russian Empire long ago. Germans served as czars and czarinas, once as the Russian prime minister, and they were officers, doctors and teachers in the royal court in St. Petersburg. German engineers operated ore mines in the Ural Mountains, German farmers plowed land along the Volga and Dnieper rivers. In turn, they were introduced to Russian writers. Pushkin introduced Germans to the strange but likable Russian soul. And cities like Moscow and St. Petersburg wouldn't be what they are today without Germans. That's the romanticized side of German-Russian relations.

Then came the wars of the past century and the devastation the Germans unleashed on the Soviet Union. Since then, the image Germans have of Russia is inaccurate.

Spiegel claims Germans romanticize Russia

It's absurd to blame Putin or Russia for the fascist coup in Kiev. That was the starting point after all.

Any bullying is from the West.

---- because Russia is withdrawing the discount they are the bad guys!

The Crimean peninsula itself had been ruled by Russia for centuries until Nikita Khrushchev gave it away to Ukraine in 1954, a move that was deeply unpopular in Russia – some say Khrushchev was drunk at the time –and most ordinary Russians – as well, it seems, as a majority of Crimeans themselves – would like to see it returned to Russia. Putin is also off the hook over the Ukrainian economy. Previously, Russia had agreed to bail out Kiev, but it seems that now this cost will be borne by European taxpayers.