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Topic: Tripe about Ukraine (Read 232830 times)

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #300
I'm guessing here that there are Russians and there are Russians means much the same as there's the United States and there's the United States. In both cases, the people are probably a good sort. The governments on the other hand--- not so much.

Michael, :lol:!
You see, people create governments - not that the latter come from Mars or any other place within GGG coverage.:)

And you know what?
There are people - and there are people: those who create governments are more. Much more than the others...  

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #301
Wasn't able to get onfor the last day or so and now catching up. Putin and Hitler is just plain stupid.

I watched an interview on the BBC the other night quite late on and the interviewer Andrew Neil who is a dogmatic and arrogant so-and-so. One of the guests was a journalist from The Telegraph who took Neil on about time someone did.Neil was obviously livid at being contradicted and he was as greatly bias as most media clowns have been The reporter had been to Russia for years and reported on matters and he was right in saying the country had vastly changed from the days of the USSR. At no time has Putin said he is ready to invade and the Russian troops are there by agreement because Ukraine got big bucks for the lease.  The propaganda from politicians in the West has been scandalous and full of lies, distortions and anything the Kiev rump claims is Gospel.

Within the last week 2 Russian unarmed protesters in the street were gunned down outside an extrem efascist office in the east of Ukraine, intimidations also going on in the east. The self proclaimed acting Prime Minister has repeatedly recanted public things he has said and has no power not his would-be government. It was a rightist cabal encouraged by the EEC and America and boy did the West make those neo-Nazi thugs become heroes. So an illegal; coup against a democratic government is okay but a referendum is not? If the West supports it then everything is fine and dandy but if not expect everything to be heaped on you. No a whole fleet of brand new lorries have been stolen from a company about to ship them. No compensation just the company told they would be taken over by the Ukraine National Guard. We can guess who will make the mainstay of that lot up as the military are in a state. Elsewhere a Vodka plant was attacked by a mob of extremists. The police called as the plant had a warning as the mob asembel but the police did not respond. When eventually they were called again they came up, stood and did nothing. But as I pointed out, Russia will not be treated like everywhere else and good luck to them and Putin. As long as we think we are the only ones to decide what is right and no opportunity for a different view we will go on having stupid situations.

Ukraine will default very soon. The so-called government has not control and the ne-Nazis have already stated they will not give up arms. Indeed now arms are being smuggled in clandestinely or have been stolen from Ukrainian military places where moral is at rock bottom.  Ukraine is fallin apart not because of Putin nor Russia but because of the extremists who hijackled the Kiev rally lot and they only control a rump of the country. Europe and America knows only too well with dozens of fascist MP's and increasing influence the Kiev "government" is a frace with little control about to go financially belly-up. However they have got themselves in a corner and waffling on about sanctions and increasing them.

This in itself is another flawed "morality." The USA stumbling along with trillions which are increasing in it's debts the EEC financially in a mess. Crimea is now back where it has always wanted to be and good luck to it as they would not have been safe  staying in the midden Ukraine has become.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #302
On another note, I think it interesting that Russia is imperially "lifting weights". It reminds me of my younger days when the propaganda was always about being in competition with Russia. They were our enemy and drove us to be better simultaneously.

The question I have to ask is will Russia have the economy to back their imperial interests. We have the world's reserve currency in our back pocket whilst they have naught but the Ruble. From an article I read, their economy looks to grown only 1% this year.

Imperialists have a rough go of it with a shite economy like that. Heck, ours is only projected to grow 2.7%, IIRC.


Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #303
Putin = KGB..........'nuf said.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #304

Quote from: ersi
Well, I know, far from everyone is logical in this world and I must live with it, but, on the other hand, I am utterly logical and the world must live with it.

You may be fooling yourself. Are you sure you're not just reacting to past events?

No, I'm not just reacting. I am comparing past events with the present based on certain characteristics. This is called comparative analysis. In politology, when you do not do this, then you are fooling yourself.


The question I have to ask is will Russia have the economy to back their imperial interests.

Russian economy stands on raw materials and basic goods. They suck at all finer industry and more advanced processing and services. So, I'd say as long as they go for places that have immediate natural wealth, they are on solid ground. Ukraine is a perfect choice in this sense.

In terms of realpolitik, Russia's behaviour is completely rational here. It's not ethical or legal, but they are picking up a treasure that is simply lying there and that nobody else wants. And nobody is stopping either. The latest news seem to indicate that nobody is even watching any more.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #305
I reckon Mr Howie has just his comma button broken. What do you think?

[whisper=ersi]"news" is singular![/whisper]




Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #309

Not at all: the words in your example belong to different classes - "news" being UNCOUNTABLE.
Then news is like shit. Some people are deep in it and some are full of it.


Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #311
We know that Crimea is a done deal, closed, c'est fini, shut the window!

But what if something unforeseen happens and Russian troops enter eastern Ukraine and shooting breaks out?

Mr. Glasgow will blame the US, the EU and Cameron in that order, but what about the rest of you?

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #312

But what if something unforeseen happens and Russian troops enter eastern Ukraine and shooting breaks out?

Could you give examples for such unforeseen scenarios?

Cui bono? :devil:
Russia? Putin? Ukrainian people? Europe?

It wouldn't be for the first time a region gets destabilized on purpose, however I hope that it won't come so far.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #313


But what if something unforeseen happens and Russian troops enter eastern Ukraine and shooting breaks out?

:devil:
Russia? Putin? Ukrainian people? Europe?

It wouldn't be for the first time a region gets destabilized on purpose, however I hope that it won't come so far.

Cui bono? Germany. It would give Merkel an opportunity to show her balls.

I'm sure it won't. Just poking around for reactions.


Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #315

BBC Sussex says 'Russians stormed ~something~'. War?.. ???

It's Russians taking over Ukrainian bases, still in Crimea http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26698754
Quote
Shooting and explosions have been heard as Russian troops backed by armoured vehicles stormed a Ukrainian airbase in Crimea.

The storming followed an ultimatum by the Russians to surrender.

The Belbek base commander earlier told the few dozen troops still there to shoot in the air if they were attacked. He said he had been waiting for days for orders from Kiev but told the BBC that none had been issued.


Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #316

We know that Crimea is a done deal, closed, c'est fini, shut the window!

But what if something unforeseen happens and Russian troops enter eastern Ukraine and shooting breaks out?

Mr. Glasgow will blame the US, the EU and Cameron in that order, but what about the rest of you?


This was still in Crimea, what was clearly America's fault and not aggression from Russia.

Quote
(Reuters) - Russian troops forced their way into a Ukrainian airbase in Crimea with armored vehicles, automatic fire and stun grenades on Saturday, injuring a Ukrainian serviceman and detaining the base's commander for talks. 


This is an embryo of an idea, but Putin isn't the Russian Hitler. He's Mussolini. Far Right, drawing admiration from American conservatives. And then, the truth becomes known as he starts picking on small countries in an effort to rebuild a dead empire. First Georgia, now the Ukraine (not geographically small but the pro-Russian Yanukovych left the country militarily small and incapable of defending itself.) Of course, on Mussolini's case, it was Ethiopia.

As a side note, some Liberals are noting the GOP's hypocrisy in the situation. They didn't complain when it was South Ossetia and Bush was President, but now Obama's president and its all his fault.   

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #317
You have a real nerve there Smileyfaze terror supporter. You have long outdone Russia in both the USSR and the more modern and wider Russia today when it come to such organisations. The CIA is high in the stakes of undermining, creating coups and murderous stuff so need no lessons from you.

As for the weird Mussolini stuff there is a backhanded compliment in that if we want to muse. That is that Musslonit produced a better Italy than the shambles before him and since.  Benito wasn't interested in expanding his dogma overt the world like some we can think of either!

The base takeovers in Crimea is an interesting matter. Crimea is back where it wants to be and the Ujrainian military should have been gone or made preparations to be so. They weren't and the commanders locally were given NO orders from Kiev and a Colonel has already stated that in a television interview. He did seem rather demoralised by it all. The shotting was obviouls skywards as a kind of warning just in case and in the whole incident only one person injured. Contrasts completely from the criminals in Kiev that we the West supported. Ignoring the fact that it was obviously a terror lot that did the shooting in the square and not the unarmed police.

Because the Referendum was in a majority Russian area we have moaned about it being illegal because the illegal government in Kiev  says so! How ridiculous is that one?  It was the Crimea parliament which voted to have it but that is warped into being illegal and the Kiev illegality by a rump as legal. you couldn't make this up. Trouble is that if the West led by DC thinks it has the sole right to declare on rights, sovereignty and such  and no-one else and will even find ways of bending UN resolutions or even ignoring them. Had Crimea been in a different corner and tremendously US-lined Obama and that dumbell, Kerry would haave been clapping their hands.

Europe is not completely united and Germany does have less than publicconcerns (understandably). Our politicians have been lying and the media fed the lies. Their is no balanced reporting and how many news stations carried that revealing telephone chat between the Estonian Foreign Minster and the op EEC  woman a Baroness from GB?? It is also ok for the USA to send a warship to paddle about the Black Sea to "look after US interests." Funny that word 'interests' comes up in every war it starts. Anyone else claiming that word is somehow automatically in error. Now the smugs in the West are yakking on about the effect on Russia and getting at not using Russian oil (small wonder the Germans are worried the amount they use) but in hard terms oiol makes up for only 15% of it's economy unlike a decade ago so Western liars are deliberately working out of date.

Now more and more concern is erupting in eastern Ukraine NOT because of Russia/Putin but the Kiev rump that is making things awkward for them. They supported the previous democratic elected and fair situation and now dictated too by that rump which is heavily infiltrated by neo-Nazis and not very mice people at all. Kiev is making Ukraine destbilised and much of the industry and commerce is in the east so must have a death wish. Demands are being made for local referendums but they have no leadership or situation like Crimea. So if the western Ukraine  aided by it;s Nazis wants to be in Europe and the east of the country where the industry is how is that overcome. One other tjhing that is certain is that the gradual rise of far rightists in Europe will be greatly helped by the illegal fiasco in Kiev.

Crimea is fortunate in getting out before things fall apart and the West has to huff and bluff having helped the Ukrainian disaster.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #318
Are you still going on about rights and stuff?

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #319
Howie tells us "Because the Referendum was in a majority Russian area we have moaned about it being illegal because the illegal government in Kiev  says so! How ridiculous is that one." It's not as large of majority as the media would have us believe, at 58%. At the rate the Ukrainian and Tatar percentage was increasing, in 10 years or less it would have not even been majority Russian. I still call "Bullshit!" on the referendum. It's illegal because it's fraudulent, get it? Without the Russian invasion and a more believable outcome, there would be no problem.

Being called Mussolini is not a compliment. It also means state-run press (such as RT, which enjoyed popularity among American conservatives who blissfully unaware that they were basically reading Pravda Reincrarnated) and limits of freedom of the press in independent media.

"Trouble is that if the West led by DC thinks it has the sole right to declare on rights, sovereignty and such  and no-one else and will even find ways of bending UN resolutions or even ignoring them." No, it's that Russia shit all over another nation's sovereignty. The Ukraine was trying to put itself back together and here comes Puti-kins intentionally destabilising the region.

"Their is no balanced reporting and how many news stations carried that revealing telephone chat between the Estonian Foreign Minster and the op EEC  woman a Baroness from GB?? It is also ok for the USA to send a warship to paddle about the Black Sea to "look after US interests." What balance are you looking for? The Ukraine did nothing to Russia and wasn't persecuting Russians. Maybe you read a Russian side of the story from state-owned Russian media that makes Fox News look like the very model of journalistic integrity?  Putie has no excuse. How is this hard?

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #320
You have a real nerve there Smileyfaze.........     It is also ok for the USA to send a warship to paddle about the Black Sea to "look after US interests.".......        Now the smugs in the West are yakking on about the effect on Russia and getting at not using Russian oil     Crimea is fortunate.....


       

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #321

It's not as large of majority as the media would have us believe, at 58%. At the rate the Ukrainian and Tatar percentage was increasing, in 10 years or less it would have not even been majority Russian. I still call "Bullshit!" on the referendum. It's illegal because it's fraudulent, get it? Without the Russian invasion and a more believable outcome, there would be no problem.

Math for elementary school students:

  • Crimea referendum voter turnout 83%

  • Ethnic Russians 58% at the ballots

  • Non Ethnic Russians 25% at the ballots

  • Votes for joining the Russian Federation 96%



The referendum was triggered by the coup d'état which took place in Kiev.
Nobody was forced to take part at the referendum. If so voter turnout would have been 100% instead of 83%.
The vast majority of non ethnic Russians who took part at the referendum voted for joining the Russian Federation.

Crimea's landslide vote was expected and didn't came as a surprise, not even for those rejecting it.

Alea iacta est.

 

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #322


It's not as large of majority as the media would have us believe, at 58%. At the rate the Ukrainian and Tatar percentage was increasing, in 10 years or less it would have not even been majority Russian. I still call "Bullshit!" on the referendum. It's illegal because it's fraudulent, get it? Without the Russian invasion and a more believable outcome, there would be no problem.

Math for elementary school students:

  • Crimea referendum voter turnout 83%

  • Ethnic Russians 58% at the ballots

  • Non Ethnic Russians 25% at the ballots

  • Votes for joining the Russian Federation 96%



The referendum was triggered by the coup d'état which took place in Kiev.
Nobody was forced to take part at the referendum. If so voter turnout would have been 100% instead of 83%.

Actually, these figures were "normalised" after the fact as it is usually done in Russia http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/what-a-turnout-123-of-sevastopol-crimea-vote-for-merger-with-mother-russia/
Reports like this do not only concern Crimea, but all elections in Russia. It's absolutely normal. It's the way democracy works, as they say. "You, the people, voted for it, and we respect your wish and thank you for the mandate."

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #323
Nobody understands geniuses! Putin has been sponsoring a new fundamental research, which yielded in a groundbreaking DISCOVERY that the number of 'percents' in a whole actually is much more than 100 (or even maybe flexible!).

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #324

Actually, these figures were "normalised" after the fact as it is usually done in Russia http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/03/what-a-turnout-123-of-sevastopol-crimea-vote-for-merger-with-mother-russia/


Can you please give us at least a link to an official Crimean statement about the number of votes in Sevastopol or is the Ukrainian Pravda your only source?

BTW, just wondering if you are a sympathizer of the Tea Party :)
Quote
The Gateway Pundit:
Jim Hoft is active in the Tea Party and was the associate producer of Hating Breitbart.