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Poll

Pick somepm.

Ghosts.
[ 0 ] (0%)
Monsters.
[ 0 ] (0%)
Practical magic.
[ 0 ] (0%)
Mythological creatures (unicorns etc.).
[ 0 ] (0%)
Deities.
[ 0 ] (0%)
Demons (Devil's included).
[ 0 ] (0%)
Spirits of The Dead (not the same as #1).
[ 0 ] (0%)
Reincarnation, karma, that sort...
[ 0 ] (0%)
Type of scientological stuff like astrobodies.
[ 0 ] (0%)
Universal Superintelligence, Manas, Mano-dhatu.
[ 0 ] (0%)
Something Must Be there!... :faint: ..
[ 0 ] (0%)
A bit of "superstitions" - "salt, cats, whatnot :insane:".
[ 0 ] (0%)
Hobbits, snurves, dwarves, elves? ???
[ 1 ] (20%)
Vegetables are alive. :yikes:
[ 1 ] (20%)
I believe I'm alive. :beer: :coffee: :hat: :cheers:
[ 3 ] (60%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Topic: Do you believe in "supernatural"? (Read 28646 times)

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #75 –
Quote from: Josh on

Why did they name it "supernatural", anyway? Super- means "above", "upper"; so did they think there was up and down in the Universal? And the Nature lay below ghosts&Co.? ??? 
The infranatural?

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #76 –
Try this.

su·pra·na·tion·al  (so̅o̅′prə-năsh′ə-nəl, -năsh′nəl)
adj.
Extending beyond or transcending established borders or spheres of influence held by separate nations: a supranational economy; supranational federations.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #77 –
Quote from: Frenzie on

Quote from: Josh on

Why did they name it "supernatural", anyway? Super- means "above", "upper"; so did they think there was up and down in the Universal? And the Nature lay below ghosts&Co.? ??? 
The infranatural?
What's infra-?
See, how about subnatural, abnatural, hypernatural, übernatural, :left:natural and :right:natural?:idea:

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #78 –
Quote from: rjhowie on

Who-ho - an excellent suggestion there Colonel. As Romanism is mixed up with all sorts of Paganism and imported spiritual stuff from elsewhere I am sure that a Unionist Scot, great Protestant and embulliant Orangeman to boot can withstand any such machinations. Being a son of the Reformation he would laugh it off. Just imagine if such a person was say, me for thre sake of discussion, it would be warded off with no bother at all. After he got his fingers sore with the stabbing and stopped for a breather I would give him a replay of the Battle of the Boyne, battle of Enniskillen, Battle of Aughrim, Siege of Londonderry  and a picture of Martin Luther. He'd give up.  :hat: :D

Well played Mr. Howie! lol

I didn't know how you'd take that attempted rustle, but you responded well.

Have a free song, courtesy of me!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1KggmYgHKY[/video]

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #80 –
Quote from: Josh on
"Holograph"?
Sorry, hologram. English sucks. Not only mine, but English as such.

Quote from: Josh on
Define "objectively observable". Is it the same as "of shared evidence"?
The same as "studied in physics". For example a physicist called Newton has a treatise on optics. Refractions are not just cute geometric figures that you draw on paper, but phenomena of light that occur in nature and whose mechanics are a field of study in physics.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #81 –
Quote from: ersi on
English sucks.
English rules! :yes:

Quote from: ersi on
The same as "studied in physics". For example a physicist called Newton has a treatise on optics. Refractions are not just cute geometric figures that you draw on paper, but phenomena of light that occur in nature and whose mechanics are a field of study in physics.
Do you believe that the existence of disambiguos natural laws is an indisputable fact?
You're again resorting to some complex constructs that you're used to taking for granted. There's always a possibility that something fundamental is a mere illusion - or maybe a misinterpreted set of steady coincidences. Think about it.:rolleyes:

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #82 –
Quote from: Josh on
Do you believe that the existence of disambiguos natural laws is an indisputable fact?
Yes, metaphysical fact. Laws of nature exist like mathematical entities do. It's often conceived as a Platonic realm.

Quote from: Josh on
There's always a possibility that something fundamental is a mere illusion - or maybe a misinterpreted set of steady coincidences. Think about it.:rolleyes:
What if pure coincidence and strict causality are the opposite ends of the same continuum. Think about it.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #83 –
What is 'continuum'? Does it exist?
Any law needs STUFF to apply to. What if all that stuff you believe "objectively" exists is a mere fantasy of you "an observer"?
Your problem's that you readily take everything from without your OWN perceived, all that "ready-made", manufactured and processed by somebody else (providing that person existed) somewhere else in time (providing anybody has any idea of TIME), without a blink.
You should BLINK at least, you know.
"Laws of nature"? There ALREADY EXIST models and hypotheses suggesting that 1) there were times when such laws were different, 2) there are places where such laws can be different or not apply, 3) there CAN EXIST parts of our Universe - or variations or our Universe - where/when/whern our "laws" may not apply, or rather that place's own, independent "laws of nature" apply.
You say "think"? I do. I'm not suffering from conformism in this field at least.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #85 –
Quote from: ersi on
Temperature is a continuum that embeds everything from cold to hot. Does it exist or not?
What is temperature?

Quote from: ersi on
I'm not interested in hypotheses. I prefer certainties. Facts.
Do certainties exist?
What animals are facts? You're picking the "ready-made" again, huh?:)

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #86 –
Quote from: Josh on

Quote from: ersi on
Temperature is a continuum that embeds everything from cold to hot. Does it exist or not?
What is temperature?

Try to make up your mind about it rationally. Does cold exist? Does warm exist? If yes, how? When cold and warm exist, then temperature should also exist, but how do cold, warm, and temperature relate to each other? Rationally, there cannot be two things in the same place at the same time, so figure it out.

Quote from: Josh on
Quote from: ersi on
I'm not interested in hypotheses. I prefer certainties. Facts.
Do certainties exist?
What animals are facts? You're picking the "ready-made" again, huh?:)
When you find out the answers to the questions above, you will know. This is metaphysics.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #87 –
Quote from: ersi on
Does cold exist?
No.

Quote from: ersi on
Does warm exist?
No.

Quote from: ersi on
When you find out the answers to the questions above, you will know. This is metaphysics.
I don't care.
I was asking YOU -- the question if I know the answers is irrelevant... Or rather -- there are NO answers to those questions. BELIEVERS like yourself believe they know. Me? no-no.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #88 –
However, no certainties can exist except for one single such one.
The term "fact" is a common juxtaposition when the precision would only allow for infinitesimally low possibilities of alternatives (a zero possibility for alternatives does not exist - except for one unique instance).

(Hm, I've just delivered a paradox, see? How can I be certain that certainties can not exist - when there are no certainties can exist?;) )

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #89 –
Quote from: Josh on
BELIEVERS like yourself believe they know. Me? no-no.
You're a fairly radical disbeliever. If cold doesn't exist, try walking around naked in winter. Don't be scared. I won't watch.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #90 –
You've introduced three new entities: me, "naked", and winter. Assuming I know what they mean, we can define a frame in which a concept of cold will be capable of existing. Till then - "cold" is a mere contrivance of yours and means nothing but somebody's attitude to a certain perception of them.

Using such terms as "realities" has revealed your constrained mentality: you can ONLY operate within BORDERS that SOMEBODY SOMEWHERE SOME DAY "defined" for y.. Not even for you.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #91 –
Quote from: ersi on
English sucks. Not only mine, but English as such.

Absolutely.
I've turned like Heidegger, mutatis mutantis, the only language one can Think is Portuguese.
Barulheira agrees with me even if he doesn't have the chance of benefiting of real genuine Portuguese.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #92 –
Quote from: ersi on

Quote from: Josh on
BELIEVERS like yourself believe they know. Me? no-no.
You're a fairly radical disbeliever. If cold doesn't exist, try walking around naked in winter. Don't be scared. I won't watch.

Cold is simply a term used in this reality to describe differences in temperature between two material objects, most often our human body temperature.  Something with a lower temperature (heat energy), than our body we say is 'cold' (or some equivalent term), and a higher temperature we say is 'hot'.  By this definition a blast furnace is hot to us but quite cold compared to the core temperature of our sun.  'Cold' is only meaningful in comparison to something else, no material object is inherently cold or hot, it only becomes so in comparison to something else.  Absolute zero simply means the absence of mechanical movement within the atoms of something, it is not 'cold'.
James J

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #93 –
Sure JS, I agree that cold and warm are relative points on the scale of temperature, but you see, Josh here thinks that temperature is supernatural - already cold and warm themselves are supernatural - and he doesn't believe in supernatural. Can you convince him otherwise?

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #94 –
I just don't see how a 'word' used to describe any real phenomena can itself somehow become a supernatural concept. 
James J

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #95 –
Cold is not a meaningful concept until two material objects, specifically and only in this reality, are compared for degrees of thermodynamic energy.  However, cold is a real concept that pertains only to this reality.  Change the reality and 'cold' is only four twisted lines in the sand. 
James J

Re: Do you believe in "supernatural"?

Reply #96 –
Quote from: jseaton2311 on
I just don't see how a 'word' used to describe any real phenomena can itself somehow become a supernatural concept.

It's called idealism — you might've heard about it in relation to Plato. ersi subscribes to monistic idealism. The idea, the mental, the subjective, is primary and immaterial.