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Topic: Tripe about Ukraine (Read 232994 times)

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #175 –
rjh - I did not know that the subject of the words to be used in the referendum had been discussed (or even known) before. Ah well we all make mistakes.

So you think the change in Government was due to an illegal act.

Actually I agree - it was - but then many countries have had illegal changes in Government according to the laws of the time; France, Russia, England, USA, to mention but four.

You are right that there are two sides, but what is different about Putin's Russia is that they have directly intervened militarily without any recourse to the UN and in disregard of their own international obligations. We have (you have) seen on the News Russian soldiers operating in the Crimea not very heavily disguised as Not Russian Soldiers.

Putin is in the process of annexing the Crimea using a fixed Referendum as a cover. I don't think anyone is fooled by that masquerading as legitimate due process, including yourself.

Had Putin waited I suspect that the Crimea would eventually have taken the path he wants, but as it stands he has made an everlasting enemy of a former ally and squandered a huge amount of international respect for Russia.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #176 –
That's the idea: "our country is surrounded by foes - I'm the Saviour" and such stuff. It works on our populace well enough.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #177 –
OK. Let me see if I have this straight (can't tell without a score card, and we're fresh out of score cards)
A president of questionable legality (Putin; just ask Josh about Putin's legality) is at loggerheads with a government that got to power by illegal coup (clue: the present government of Ukraine wasn't exactly voted in) over the Crimea, which -may- decide by questionably legal vote to secede from Ukraine and join with Russia-- long ago the Crimea was part of Russia and was made part of Ukraine in a Soviet restructuring, as I understand it now.

I would note that the guys presently running Ukraine appear to be the same sort that the Allies had to fight in WW2, and the fact that they're presently in power by the means they used does not bode well for future events. That our president says this government is "legal" boggles the mind.

Why do I have the feeling that this all looks like a South-Side gangland power struggle and we're rooting for the gang we each find least offensive, and hope we don't get dragged into their turf war?

Hmmm..... Nazis with nukes. That should keep you up at night.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #178 –
Quote from: Josh on

That's the idea: "our country is surrounded by foes - I'm the Saviour" and such stuff. It works on our populace well enough.


Yup    -    Putin the Magnificent.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #179 –
Just a reminder, Mr. Howie, for all the bollocks you post on here about Jim and I's country, it is YOUR country who has only failed to invade 22 or so countries in it's illustrious history.

But of course, I know you won't accept facts, as they have this annoying habit of getting in the way of one's bollocky posts.

(And yes, I shamelessly stole one of the UK's words;

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #180 –
Quote from: string on

Putin is in the process of annexing the Crimea using a fixed Referendum as a cover. I don't think anyone is fooled by that masquerading as legitimate due process, including yourself.

I'm not convinced that he even needs to fix it, the new gang in Kiev isn't exactly friendly to the russians living in the country.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #181 –
No Southern mouth your country is a guilty party. Time after time it has stuck it's nose into countries all over the place as if you have some right to do this from on high. Jimbro does have a built-in mental thing about Russia even though your land is the most imperialist place on the planet. Your youthful belligerence does effect your grey cells the way you resort to the language you have to use. It is your lot that leads the support of an illegal government in Kiev and is rubbishing the Crimea which HAS an elected government. Macallan does have a point and you forget because it suits that much of the Russian population in Ukraine has been woefully treated. Your President and that other lying part of Laurel and Hardy, namely, Kerry go on about illegality yet support that illegal Kiev government and it's Nazi inclusion. Must say that you don't seem to know much about the place hence you falling back on abuse and young crassness.

President Putin does not have to influence or sneak about Crimea. It has always wanted to be Russian and the vote will show that at the weekend. Crimea is wise because if the Kiev bandits keep on the path to Europe they will go down the financial drain. The financial institutions only want Ukraine into their fold so they can give big loans and get great interest. They don't give a damn really. Maybe you could explain why your country thinks that a rebel government which only reflects on half of the country is okay and that including Nazis is okay. Talk about hypocrisy. At least after the vote Crimeans will not be saddled with the great future debt that Ukraine will be saddled with for decades. The east of the country should get out to.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #183 –
Quote from: string on

Quote from: Josh on

That's the idea: "our country is surrounded by foes - I'm the Saviour" and such stuff. It works on our populace well enough.


Yup    -    Putin the Magnificent.
It works here, too. Fear of Canada and Mexico is rampant. I have trouble sleeping. We must attack now. That's my red line and I'm sticking to it!
=====================================================
Quote
Quote from: rjhowie on 2014-03-13, 00:03:53
No Southern mouth your country is a guilty party.

Snap! Another brilliant put down by Mr. Howie. Old Southern mouth must be writhing with pain.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #184 –
Quote from: string on

there are two sides, but what is different about Putin's Russia is that they have directly intervened militarily without any recourse to the UN

Without recourse to the UN? Are you kidding or simply short of memory? Any precedent where souveran souvereign states have been bombed without UN mandate?
However, AFAIK Russian military didn't fire a sinlgle shot so far.

Quote from: string on

Putin is in the process of annexing the Crimea using a fixed Referendum as a cover. I don't think anyone is fooled by that masquerading as legitimate due process,

Russia (not Putin) is in the process to get Crimea, a teritory which btw was in its posssession for centuries.
If the vote of Crimeans isn't decisive what else could be?

Quote from: string on

Had Putin waited I suspect that the Crimea would eventually have taken the path he wants, but as it stands he has made an everlasting enemy of a former ally and squandered a huge amount of international respect for Russia.

So do you think the majority of Crimea's residents sympathize with the 'new Ukrainian government'?
Crimea will take the path it desires. You can bet on it. I'm afraid it won't be the path our leaders have planned for and the main reason for their enragement.

Everybody noticed how 'respectfully' Western media was reporting about the Olympics in Sochi... So far about 'international' respect.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #186 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on

Quote from: Josh on

That's the idea: "our country is surrounded by foes - I'm the Saviour" and such stuff. It works on our populace well enough.

It works here, too.

For sure it does.
The USA is however a special case since it has 'neighbors' all around the world :)
Well, now that the fear of Cuba is history and the fear of Iraq has been sorted out, what about the fear of Iran?

There is no reason to relax because the list of states representing a threat to the USA will be kept alive for decades to come.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #187 –
Quote from: krake on

Quote from: string on

Putin is in the process of annexing the Crimea using a fixed Referendum as a cover. I don't think anyone is fooled by that masquerading as legitimate due process,

Russia (not Putin) is in the process to get Crimea, a teritory which btw was in its posssession for centuries.

Given that rationale, Spain could claim the US, and Portugal could claim Brazil.
====================================
Quote
Well, now that the fear of Cuba is history and the fear of Iraq has been sorted out, what about the fear of Iran?

Who's afraid of Iran? That's US political bullshit.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #188 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on

Quote from: krake on

Russia (not Putin) is in the process to get Crimea, a teritory which btw was in its posssession for centuries.

Given that rationale, Spain could claim the US, and Portugal could claim Brazil.

If the majority of US residents would decide to become part of Spain, why not?
Imagine Washington, D.C. being the new capital of Spain or Brasília the new capital of Portugal  :jester:

Quote from: Jimbro3738 on

Who's afraid of Iran? That's US political bullshit.

Unfortunately not the only one with a large geopolitical and economic impact.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #190 –
Quote from: krake on

Quote from: string on

there are two sides, but what is different about Putin's Russia is that they have directly intervened militarily without any recourse to the UN

Without recourse to the UN? Are you kidding or simply short of memory? Any precedent where souveran souvereign states have been bombed without UN mandate?
However, AFAIK Russian military didn't fire a sinlgle shot so far.


I said recourse, not mandate.

It has been referred to the UN now. Russia will vetoe the resolution of course, but we will see who is on what side of the argument.

But it may not come to that. Kerry is suggesting a way out for Putin's Russia whereby the democratic ticks and balances can be satisfied. It may well lead to the Crimea separating from the Ukraine, but if that is done it should be done properly according to the Ukrainian law, not at the point of the Gun. That's what Putin's Russia should have done in the first place; by demanding an end to the internal fighting and insisting on early new elections after Yanukovych fled.

Yes I say Putin's Russia deliberately. I don't have a problem with Russians as such, just with that facet of their character that seems to adore an autocratic leader, which Putin postures to perfection.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #193 –
Quote from: Josh on

Quote from: string on
vetoe
vetoe
"veto":P


OK. I give up. A Russian is trying to teach an Englishman how to write English. That is a bit of a howl.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #194 –
Quote from: string on

Kerry is suggesting a way out for Putin's Russia

Kerry is suggesting a way out for Putin's Russia? You mean the guy in the picture below? :D



Quote from: string on
It may well lead to the Crimea separating from the Ukraine, but if that is done it should be done properly according to the Ukrainian law, not at the point of the Gun.

- According to Ukrainian law? Which Ukrainian law is the USA referring to? Does the USA mix up the Ukrainian law with US imposed law or that of the putschists?
According to Ukranian constitution the actual interim Ukrainian government has no legitimacy.
Even US law prohibits any form of aid to putschist regimes. So far about law...

- Russian 'occupants' pointing guns at Crimeans? Wonder how absurd propaganda can get.




Quote from: string on
I don't have a problem with Russians as such, just with that facet of their character

That's priceless!  :rolleyes:

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #195 –
Quote from: mjmsprt40 on
OK. I give up. A Russian is trying to teach an Englishman how to write English. That is a bit of a howl.

I know a Russian woman who speaks and writes English, Dutch, as well as German very well indeed. Besides, Vladimir Nabokov could teach all of us a thing or two about English prose. :knight:

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #196 –
Quote from: Jimbro3738 on

It works here, too. Fear of Canada and Mexico is rampant. I have trouble sleeping. We must attack now. That's my red line and I'm sticking to it!

North Korea is going to invade any day now :right:

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #197 –
Quote from: krake on

Quote from: Jimbro3738 on

Quote from: krake on

Russia (not Putin) is in the process to get Crimea, a teritory which btw was in its posssession for centuries.

Given that rationale, Spain could claim the US, and Portugal could claim Brazil.

If the majority of US residents would decide to become part of Spain, why not?
Imagine Washington, D.C. being the new capital of Spain or Brasília the new capital of Portugal  :jester:

How about giving Louisiana back to France? I'm sure they'd be thrilled. Both of them. :right:

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #198 –
Quote from: krake on

Quote from: string on

Kerry is suggesting a way out for Putin's Russia
According to Ukrainian law? Which Ukrainian law is the USA referring to? Does the USA mix up the Ukrainian law with US imposed law or that of the putschists?
According to Ukranian constitution the actual interim Ukrainian government has no legitimacy.
One would assume the Ukrainian law about a referendum, which must be a nation-wide referendum.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #199 –
The Kiev group did not consult the country beyond the western, eastern or southern areas did they? That is kind of illegal in itself and highly selective. The ousted President had been prepared to have the constitution altered and his powers reduced. That arrogant Kiev Prime Minister has a nerve telling Crimea it is acting illegaly.  He has been blatantly mouthing about Russia and it's invasion of Ukraine. Where?

The only Russia military in Crimea is the large contingent connected with the Black Sea base and they are aloowed to move about regarding moving people and equipment. The West led of course by the US as usual has warped this into something else. Western media is going banas on an invasion that doesn't exist. The men in uniform away from the naval base are Crimean volunteers not Russian soldiers. Read that slowly so it registers. The people in Crimea never wanted to be in Ukraine but the Reds gave them no choice and west Ukraine has long sniped at east Ukraine because there is a large Russian. And so what if Russian troops were doing manoeuvres near Ukraine after all NAT does that near Russia. Poland for example as one.population.  There are lies and damn lies and both are the sum together of what the West is dong about Ukraine and Russia. So if wego on with the threats and lay down restrictions Russia will do the same. Crimea is returning to Russia and quite right too.
"Quit you like men:be strong"