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Topic: Tripe about Ukraine (Read 230887 times)

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #775 –
Quote from: ersi on

The German (or krakean) hope that Russia could be integrated into Europe is futile imagination. Given Russian geopolitical essence and historical psyche, Russia can never be integrated.

Russian psyche?
Another attempt to demonise an entire nation. Granted, it doesn't need a clear mind for such attempts. Blind hate mixed up with a certain ideology will suffice...
BTW, how about the German psyche? How about the Jewish psyche?
Don't be shy. Let us know.
Almost forgot, how about your psyche?

Quote from: ersi on

For me the war in Europe started when Crimea was grabbed.

The fact that the Crimeans have choosen to be part of the RF is only the logical consequence of the neofascist coup in Kiev.
At least they had luck.

Quote from: ersi on

The fact that Germany hasn't acknowledged the seriousness of the situation and that Ukraine (obedient to its "allies") didn't declare war at this early stage is just a formality on one hand and a political mistake on the other.

1. You mention Germany while omitting the role of the USA. Who was/is the main player in the conflict?
2. The Ukraine should have declared war to Russia?
Amazing what a sick mind can produce. However there are many sick minds floating around, so you can still hope to get the war you are dreaming of.

Quote from: ersi on

Absolutely every country between Germany and Russia saw Russian counter-sanctions coming from afar and spoke about it on the sanctions meetings...
We here next to Russia have seen Russians playing a selective little-sanctions game throughout the decades, and we have been talking about it on the EU level all the time, but nobody was listening... Germany, France and UK have foolishly been playing their own games in their own disparate self-interests

A single remark in form of a question you don't have to answer: Who kept/is still keeping the EU afloat?
The countries between Germany and Russia?

Quote from: ersi on

This EU must end better sooner than later. I want no part in this.

Europe never spoke with one voice. Now it does - with that of the USA.
So there is hope for you.
In case you are still disappointed - well, don't expect it to speak with the voice of the countries between Germany and Russia anytime soon.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #776 –
Quote from: krake on
Who kept/is still keeping the EU afloat?

Countries forced to buy submarines to Germany? :)

The submarines aren't bad but I would prefer the convertible model, we would sink faster and definitively...
A matter of attitude.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #777 –
Quote from: krake on

Russian psyche?

Velikaya russkaya dusha. Ever heard? Of course not. And you will never understand it because you don't want to. Luckily someone has written an intro into the concept for you. Note that this is not a theoretical thing or a point of debate. Everybody with any closer contact with Russians knows how Russians make everything to be about their dusha. You don't know it, so no contest.

Quote from: krake on

1. You mention Germany while omitting the role of the USA. Who was/is the main player in the conflict?

Russia of course. Funny that you even have to ask.

Quote from: krake on

2. The Ukraine should have declared war to Russia?

Russia is in undeclared war with Ukraine. See Crimea.

Quote from: krake on

A single remark in form of a question you don't have to answer: Who kept/is still keeping the EU afloat?
The countries between Germany and Russia?

Is your answer Germany, financially or, worse, Germany and Russia, economically and geopolitically? Both answers show you don't see EU as a union and don't wish to see.

The one single answer for me is that EU stands on politicians as a class. It's an obvious class struggle - supranational/metropolitan politicians and cronies against the rest.

Quote from: krake on

Quote from: ersi on

This EU must end better sooner than later. I want no part in this.

Europe never spoke with one voice. Now it does - with that of the USA.

Funny how Merkel is said to phone both Obama and Putin every day. What is there to talk about for them? Could it be something like:

Merkel to Putin: "Okay, take Crimea, but leave the rest of Ukraine intact. Okay, take Donetsk too, but give us more gas. What do you really want? Come on, you can tell me..."
Merkel to Obama: "Putin is as if living in another world..."

EU needs leaders with organic collegial spirit (this is another word translated as dusha in Russian), not someone who imagines it okay to call the shots alone, to assume tasks over her head, ending up like a headless chicken, committing everyone into the chicken soup. We have a bear as our neighbour and a puppet master on the other side of the pond with strings all over the continent. There could be some chance to kick some realistic perspective into the discussion when these minimal facts are recognised, but with a headless chicken in the lead I don't entertain any hopes.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #779 –
Quote from: krake on
Huh? Did you say forced?
To your reminder: Dealing in the dark: Portugal’s sad defence contracts

Why don't you read your own sources until the end?

No matter how many cunning politicians in Germany or Finland decry the fiscal irresponsibility of over-indebted euro countries, that fact is that much of the money that was misspent in Portugal, Spain, Italy or Greece has directly benefited big industries in the so-called “responsible” nations.

There you have it bolded and underlined.
Cappice? or do I have to explain you how these things are made?

You really have no idea about what your government does in order to maintain you wealthy and employed, you should thank Merkel everyday... :)
A matter of attitude.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #780 –
Quote from: ersi on
The one single answer for me is that EU stands on politicians as a class. It's an obvious class struggle - supranational/metropolitan politicians and cronies against the rest.

Well, well... hear, hear, hear...
It's not everyday that people can listen to this. Never free press was so much needed as today.
A matter of attitude.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #781 –
Quote from: Belfrager on

Why don't you read your own sources until the end?

Be sure I did. I was trying to give you an unbiased source. If my intention would have been to distort things like some others do be sure I would have given you another source. I could find more than one ;)
I agree that there are no inocents in this political blame game but telling that Portugal was forced to buy, is a twist.
Don't you think so?

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #782 –
Quote from: krake on
I agree that there are no inocents in this political blame game but telling that Portugal was forced to buy, is a twist.
Don't you think so?

No, I don't think so.

Submarines, or warships, airplanes, whatever, anything above let's say a dozen million euros, it's not simple commerce. You don't buy it just because the manufacturer's salesman entered your office offering it. It evolves governmental negotiations, with financing included - and there's where "pressures" begins.

The typical business for this dimension (we paid more than a billion euros for each submarine and we bought two) will evolve "counter-acquisitions". It means that you finance me one billion euros to me to buy you a nice piece of weaponry but, in return, you'll buy me shoes, wine or whatever for the same value. Germany never respected that part of the agreement.

Besides, returning to our small theater, you will "remember me" about the next European funds distribution and how well my agreement for the business will be seen by those that distributes the money, meaning yourself... :)

At the bottom line, this is very simple, who has the power forces, who doesn't it's forced.

And all this is related with Ukraine. You see, we had to buy submarines because we are a member of NATO and we respect our duties. Those submarines are specialized, in fact the state of art currently, at strategic communications and electronic war. That's our mission at the whole area of the Southern Atlantic.
Saw Putin entering the Southern Atlantic? course not, we are there. :)
A matter of attitude.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #783 –
It doesn't matter how often Russia has said it has no wish to take over east Ukraine it is ignored because it does not suit the mindset in the West or even here in this Forum. Russia now has what is it 200 lorries with aid and Kiev wants it dropped at the Border. All they had to do was check inside instead of being so damn stupid and over nationalistic. With increased deaths people desperate for food, lost homes due to Kiev's arrogance it makes one wonder about intelligence with some people. Russia is supposed to be 100% at fault and the West 100% moral. Such hypocrisy.  Strikes me that Kiev doesn't care a damn how many innocents are killed in the East how many homes they destroy or tens of thousands fleeing over the Border. Although the East is the industrial powerhouse thhe Kiev lot think they can live off the US led West.Ukraine had a strong history of Nazi association during WW2 as it's nationalism was a step away from that political thinking. Indeed they still celebrate those Ukrainian SS men today. Morality in the West is a useless word.

Germany is playing a double game into the bargain going along with the US determination whilst it's commercial side is crying out against the sanctions! Russia has a right to introduce it's own in the face of the duplicity of the West and it will bite too. We started the roundabout.....
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #784 –
That's odd. How do you keep anything afloat in a convertible submarine?
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #785 –
It's not supposed to. :lol:

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #786 –
Quote from: Barulheira on

It's not supposed to. :lol:

I'm afraid you're missing something.
Methinks Belfrager and mjmsprt40 have choosen the language of allegorie.
Leme explain it to you :)
Firstly, Belfrager is comparing Portugal with a submarine.
Since the submarine needs a captain, Belfrager hires mjmsprt40 for the job.
Inspecting his new truck submarine, mjmsprt40 exclaims: "That's odd. How do you keep anything afloat in a convertible submarine?"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #787 –
It seems to replace ability to float with impressive styling. I'll have to think about this.

What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #788 –
Well... submarines and warships (and oil tankers) that's what Crimea is about, isn't it?
The passage for the Mediterranean through the Bosphorus strait. The strait it's dominated by Turkey and I believe there was already a Russian-Turkish war because of that.

What do Turkey says to all this? Probably have been silent...

A matter of attitude.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #789 –
Possibly.
Everybody knows that the windshield wiper was invented in Portugal. The Americans just improved it by putting it to the outside.
:D

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #790 –
Krake, maybe Belfrager is right about comparing Portugal with a submarine. After all a sub goes down a lot and Portugal has been going down finacially for some time. Mind you a submarine can come back up a lot quicker.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #791 –
Elsewhere on the webs-- I feel like I'm about to take part in the shakedown cruise of a convertible submarine-- with screen doors, no less. Dive test sometime late tomorrow.

By comparison, the stuff happening in Ukraine is almost a cakewalk.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #792 –
Now Kiev claims they attacked and dealt a heavy blow on a Russian Army incursion into Ukraine. The limited photographs mean absolutely nothing and almost insults the intelligence. Firstly Kiev says it was a convoy of a limited number of personnel carriers. and if an army is going to invade they will have heavy vehicles, helicopters and much more. Secondly and even more important there was absolutely NO detail of the date or the time, etc.

Meanwhile more odd bombing at present is like the night bombing of a couple of months ago which looked very much like phosphorous. I will wait to see what Kiev says but won't hold my breath. At the White House pantomime, oops, news conference room the woman at the podium was asked if the Kiev lot could be more careful about heavy weapon bombing due to the innocent civilians being killed and got guff in reply. The woman from the propaganda corner said that they had asked Kiev to be careful but supported Kiev altogether!

If Kiev are going to maintain this complete stupidity of refusing the food and supply trucks for childish reasons then let the wonderful West and especially America and the EEC send 300 trucks in. Much of the infrastructure in the 2 regions has been destroyed and/or seriously damaged and will cost a pretty penny. Even more so as the East is the mainstay of the Ukraine economy. Trouble is the country is ruled and destabilised by the ultra-nationalist mindset in Kiev.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #794 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
Firstly Kiev says it was a convoy of a limited number of personnel carriers. and if an army is going to invade they will have heavy vehicles, helicopters and much more. Secondly and even more important there was absolutely NO detail of the date or the time, etc.

Third of all, why were Russia military trying to travel with Red Cross vehicles, which is against Red Cross policy? Yes, other sources besides Kiev and the US State Department confirm Russian Armored Personnel Carriers moving in Ukraine. Of course, Moscow denies this. But how many times does Putin need to lie before you see him for what he is - a liar?

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #795 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

But how many times does Putin need to lie before you see him for what he is - a liar?


Is there a shortage of liars? Seems nobody's word in this situation is all that dependable. Putin lies. Obama lies. I don't know who the acting head of the Ukraine government is, but--- surprise, he lies too! Much of the media involved in telling the story is state-controlled, so of course they tell the tale they're told to tell. The US media is "supposed" to be independent, but much of it is so biased one way or the other that a state-controlled media might actually be an improvement-- so of course they lie as the situation suits them.

No, I reckon there's no shortage of liars.
What would happen if a large asteroid slammed into the Earth?
According to several tests involving a watermelon and a large hammer, it would be really bad!

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #796 –
You're right about that. But in this instance, Putin lied from the word go.  He claimed the unmarked troops in Crimea were not Russia. He later had to admit that the were. He tried to claim he didn't supply the separatists with BUK missiles. Yes, he did. Ectetera. I don't think a single truthful statement came out the Kremlin this whole time.

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #797 –
Quote from: Sanguinemoon on

I don't think a single truthful statement came out the Kremlin this whole time.

The only  truthful statements during this whole time came from the White House, the NATO HQ and Kiev.

How about more food for parroting?
Quote
I have met allies who can report that Russia, as part of their sophisticated information and disinformation operations, engaged actively with so-called non-governmental organizations -- environmental organizations working against shale gas -- to maintain European dependence on imported Russian gas. That is my interpretation.
- Anders Fogh Rasmussen

Just another clear evidence against Putin, brought up by our truth speeking Nato propaganda puppet.

Anybody for fracking in his/her neighborhood or are you all on Putin's pay roll?

One might wonder what they're smoking at NATO HQ.  :doh:

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #798 –
You really are brain dead Sanguinemoon. Everything the Kremlin says is 100% bad and everything the White House says is 100% honest. Talk about in your face bias? I will repeat again. No date - no time - no place regarding the nonsense that Russian forces were in a convoy. Repeat again an invasion is not going to be a handful of personnel carriers. So anyone can produce pictures and do what they like with them and in view of the situation there should have been the details I have stated. May I also say dear n-brainer that already the Red cross has been looking at the contents of the lorries and the media has also seen inside them as well. Yet what do we get this hypo stuff that Russia is using this humanitarian project for an excuse to invade! Ukraine is teetering on the edge of financial collapse but you know what? The US never mind it's trillions of debt will do anything to get at any country (like Russia) which refuses to accept US hegemony of the world.

As for sanctions, voices in Europe are already bemoaning the retaliation from Russia and some politicians and a lot of commercial people even more so, arguing that a continuing spiral by repeated sanctions will make things worse in the world.  President Putin did not do a tour of South America for the sun and many places there do not want involved in the US stupidity and that is to their benefit and Russia's

Does no harm in reminding of my much earlier matter of 2 journalists arrested in Ukraine and held while Kiev told everyone they had rocket firers. The White House simply repeated that and then surprise, surprise the 2 news men did not have the armaments at all. Was there an apology or withdrawal of the falseness? nope. Again months ago we had pictures shown to us on television claiming Russian tanks in Ukraine. Interesting that some here belabour me for mentioning tv reports and sneering at me but that matter was somehow different. As it eventually happened the tanks were over 100 miles from the Ukraine but again the US simply repeated what Kiev tells them.

Now the last large city about to be taken back has millions of pounds of damage, innocents killed and it is the centre for commercial activity in Ukraine. So all you good US taxpayers will be helping the rebuild of the economy now their Kiev pals have destroyed much of the Ukrainian industry in the East. Over 2,000 dead now and infrastructure damaged never mind a legacy of hate that will be left behind.
"Quit you like men:be strong"

Re: Tripe about Ukraine

Reply #799 –
Quote from: rjhowie on
You really are brain dead Sanguinemoon. Everything the Kremlin says is 100% bad and everything the White House says is 100% honest

Now who's brain dead? Putin repeatedly said things that aren't true. Where those Russia troops in Crimea despite what Putin claimed? Yes. Have satellite images of BUK missile systems coming from Russia into the Ukraine been shown? Yes. Did Putin try to claim otherwise? Of course.
Quote from: rjhowie on
Repeat again an invasion is not going to be a handful of personnel carriers.

I never said it was. A full on invasion would involve tanks, jets, etc.  The question isn't the number of APC. It's that Russia sent them in the first place. What nation on Earth would tolerate foreign troops just waltzing into their territory? Oh, yeah. Putin lied that there was an incident, Too bad NATO intelligence shows otherwise, but just can't confirm that Ukraine did destroy the column of Russian APCs that violated Ukrainian territory. Oh yeah, the blackbox findings from MH17 are consistent with a missile blast, not fire from Ukrainian fighterjet. Do you get it yet? There's a pattern of easily disproven lies from Putin.

Quote from: rjhowie on
Over 2,000 dead now and infrastructure damaged never mind a legacy of hate that will be left behind.

Yup, that's terrible. Now go make that complaint to your pal Vlad and tell him to stop claiming to be working for peace and supplying the separatists when he thinks everyone's back is turned.